Harry Cornick

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I'm bemused a little by the comments of "he needs a pre-season to get fit etc".  He's had a pre-season with Luton, who looked extremely fit and energetic against us, so he's already been in that environment and started only a third of Luton's league games before signing for us. That tells a story in itself.  He's managed 1 goal and 3 assists in 20 matches.  He does look unfit, but you have to ask why he's become unfit when he's been in an environment where his teammates seemed perfectly equipped for the Championship. 

I don't like writing off players too soon, but I don't think it's unfair to say he has a lot to do to win fans over.

Because he had an injury.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Because he had an injury.

Also he has only started a third of their games because Morris & Adebayo were being picked ahead of him.

People need to realise Luton are 4th, we’re 14th, so signing their squad players (whatever your opinion of this particular player) is not exactly revelatory.

[maxjak]

35 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Also he has only started a third of their games because Morris & Adebayo were being picked ahead of him.

People need to realise Luton are 4th, we’re 14th, so signing their squad players (whatever your opinion of this particular player) is not exactly revelatory.

As it revealed something hitherto unknown..........personally i would rather have been kept in the dark?   I will not jump on the Bash Cornick bus, but I will be astounded if he is a regular in the First Team next season..especially as Pearson stated " I will will not sign players just for the sake of it, they have to be better than what we already have ? "  I look forward to seeing who he is better than?

Edited March 20, 2023 by maxjak

[GrahamC]

14 minutes ago, maxjak said:

As it revealed something hitherto unknown..........personally i would rather have been kept in the dark?   I will not jump on the Bash Cornick bus, but I will be astounded if he is a regular in the First Team next season..especially as Pearson stated " I will will not sign players just for the sake of it, they have to be better than what we already have ? "  I look forward to seeing who he is better than?

At this stage in his career (12 Championship goals in 30 starts 8 sub appearances last season) then I’d suggest that he was certainly better than Sam Bell, but I don’t think that’s the answer you’re after & 320 minutes spread over 3 starts & 7 sub ones is clearly plenty for you to have made a definitive decision.

As has been pointed out by others he actually replaced Chris Martin, who is 34 & now on the way down, but again that’s not the answer you’re after, is it?

[Cidre Monita]

30 minutes ago, maxjak said:

As it revealed something hitherto unknown..........personally i would rather have been kept in the dark?   I will not jump on the Bash Cornick bus, but I will be astounded if he is a regular in the First Team next season..especially as Pearson stated " I will will not sign players just for the sake of it, they have to be better than what we already have ? "  I look forward to seeing who he is better than?

Martin in the context of how the team is evolving, and the age of both players. So the mystery was quickly solved. 

[maxjak]

16 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

Martin in the context of how the team is evolving, and the age of both players. So the mystery was quickly solved. 

He is 5 years younger than  when Martin joined us.....and I am not holding my breath for a similar impact.   Anyhow, I meant present players....and NOT former ones, as is obvious in my statement/

[Son of Fred]

32 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

Martin in the context of how the team is evolving, and the age of both players. So the mystery was quickly solved. 

If the only context is that he's more mobile & younger than Martin then that's not enough,it really isn't.

[maxjak]

50 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

At this stage in his career (12 Championship goals in 30 starts 8 sub appearances last season) then I’d suggest that he was certainly better than Sam Bell, but I don’t think that’s the answer you’re after & 320 minutes spread over 3 starts & 7 sub ones is clearly plenty for you to have made a definitive decision.

As has been pointed out by others he actually replaced Chris Martin, who is 34 & now on the way down, but again that’s not the answer you’re after, is it?

I see Cornick as a gamble, who cost very little.   If he performs, he will become a useful squad player, but if not, he will be moved on.   What everyone knows, is that we need is a physically strong, tall and skillfull centre forward, who is capable of bringing in other players by holding up the ball.  We were not going to sign that type of player in January, as that crucial type as an option is a Summer signing, and hopefully a candidate or two is already in our crosshairs?   I feel sorry for HC, as Pearson hasn't done him any favours by playing him when he is not fully fit and not up to the pace of the Championship, which is not his fault?   So he is being judged and condemned by many, when he is not ready, and it is not doing Cornick any favours IMO ( Sorry, I repeated myself!!).   I am not sure where is his best position, and i do not see him as a long term solution.......but i am hoping to eat plenty of humble pie, when he proves to be a masterstroke.  Still i cannot feel too sorry for him, as he was gong nowhere at Luton, and couldn't get in the side (Yes I know about his injury)......and whose front two are just the type of forwards we SHOULD be looking at.....still I am sure       HC got a good signing on fee?    Good Luck to him, I wish him well .   

Edited March 20, 2023 by maxjak

[maxjak]

9 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Keep shifting those goalposts Max!

I am happy with my statement and opinion (HAVE being the operative word....not FORMER)....can i help it if people are incapable of reading plain English?............Ha!

Edited March 20, 2023 by maxjak

[mozo]

13 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

If the only context is that he's more mobile & younger than Martin then that's not enough,it really isn't.

Totally agree. I'm happy to give Cornick a chance (and I obviously think the social media derision is daft, but really who pays attention to shit like that anyway?!), but... 

The question should be, is he the right signing for City, not is he better than Martin. I'm hoping the answer to both is yes, but we won't know for a while.

[pongo88]

14 hours ago, GrahamC said:

At this stage in his career (12 Championship goals in 30 starts 8 sub appearances last season) then I’d suggest that he was certainly better than Sam Bell, but I don’t think that’s the answer you’re after & 320 minutes spread over 3 starts & 7 sub ones is clearly plenty for you to have made a definitive decision.

As has been pointed out by others he actually replaced Chris Martin, who is 34 & now on the way down, but again that’s not the answer you’re after, is it?

I always feel that it’s dangerous to just look at one season to judge a player. With Cornick, last season was good, but what about his entire career? According to Wiki his league record is:

3 goals at non league level over 2 seasons.

19 goals at leagues 1&2 level over 4 seasons.

23 goals at Championship level over nearly 4 seasons. Of these 23 goals, 12 came last season, with the other seasons producing 9, 1, and1 respectively. Stats can sometimes be a bit misleading, as some of the seasons he was a young player and he’s bound to have had injuries etc. However, he’s 27 and has only managed to score 45 league goals with half of his career below Championship level. 

Obviously goals aren’t everything as he’s played in a variety of positions, and has provided a number of assists, but what does he bring to the team? Time will tell 

[ExiledAjax]

Most strikers signed in January struggle in the second part of the season. Think I posted it a few seasons ago when Newcastle signed Wood - but most strikers signed in the winter window fail to score 5 goals in the remainder of the season (normally about 18 - 20 games if signed on deadline day). Wood himself vindicated my doubts and the stats in the end with his two goals in 17 games for Newcastle at the back end of 2021/22.

If Cornick scores one goal between now and the end of the season then he will have done better than most January striker signings. 

@pongo88 full stats are at fbref.com. https://fbref.com/en/players/9169bc41/Harry-Cornick

Over his entire career he's sitting on 0.23 goals per 90 minutes (42 in 16,244 minutes). In an uncanny match up that's also his record at Championship level (23 in 9,133 minutes). As you say that Champ record is across 4 seasons. Other than last season and this one he's actually been pretty regular for Luton in the Championship. In the three seasons for Luton 2019 through to 2022 he played 3,085, 2,557, and 2,359 minutes across 123 games (95 starts). Max number of league minutes in a season is 4,140 (46 x 90).

He's not prolific. Not as prolific historically as Wells or Martin at this level or other recent strikers such as Diedhiou - all of whom are 1 in 3 strikers at Champ level. But he's got a goals/90 record that matches up to Weimann (bar his own freak season last term).

A comparison of the total Championship careers of Cornick and five slightly random but vaguely relevant strikers. He actually stacks up reasonably well, especially his goals/shot ratio. That suggests that, like many of our strikers, when he does shoot it's a good and dangerous shot...he needs to shoot more often though as 1.61 shots per game is low for a striker.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Percy Pig said:

Hang it in the Louvre.

*past performance does not necessarily guarantee future results.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

I always feel that it’s dangerous to just look at one season to judge a player. With Cornick, last season was good, but what about his entire career? According to Wiki his league record is:

3 goals at non league level over 2 seasons.

19 goals at leagues 1&2 level over 4 seasons.

23 goals at Championship level over nearly 4 seasons. Of these 23 goals, 12 came last season, with the other seasons producing 9, 1, and1 respectively. Stats can sometimes be a bit misleading, as some of the seasons he was a young player and he’s bound to have had injuries etc. However, he’s 27 and has only managed to score 45 league goals with half of his career below Championship level. 

Obviously goals aren’t everything as he’s played in a variety of positions, and has provided a number of assists, but what does he bring to the team? Time will tell 

I think some of that is fair, but can’t see the point in going back further than his last 4 seasons.

He said himself he was a late developer, he’s not an Academy product but has as you point out, played 4 seasons of Championship football in a row with certainly an inconsistent scoring record.

I’ll be interested to see what Pearson thinks is going to be his best position, because at present we seem to be rotating a lot of players in the front three (goalkeeper aside the only area we really have choice) & nobody is really nailing down a spot.

Having a good pre season will be key for him as will building up an understanding with whoever else is picked.

I’m not expecting him to ever be prolific but (unlike some) I’m not writing him off just yet, either.

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Most strikers signed in January struggle in the second part of the season. Think I posted it a few seasons ago when Newcastle signed Wood - but most strikers signed in the winter window fail to score 5 goals in the remainder of the season (normally about 18 - 20 games if signed on deadline day). Wood himself vindicated my doubts and the stats in the end with his two goals in 17 games for Newcastle at the back end of 2021/22.

If Cornick scores one goal between now and the end of the season then he will have done better than most January striker signings. 

@pongo88 full stats are at fbref.com. https://fbref.com/en/players/9169bc41/Harry-Cornick

Over his entire career he's sitting on 0.23 goals per 90 minutes (42 in 16,244 minutes). In an uncanny match up that's also his record at Championship level (23 in 9,133 minutes). As you say that Champ record is across 4 seasons. Other than last season and this one he's actually been pretty regular for Luton in the Championship. In the three seasons for Luton 2019 through to 2022 he played 3,085, 2,557, and 2,359 minutes across 123 games (95 starts). Max number of league minutes in a season is 4,140 (46 x 90).

He's not prolific. Not as prolific historically as Wells or Martin at this level or other recent strikers such as Diedhiou - all of whom are 1 in 3 strikers at Champ level. But he's got a goals/90 record that matches up to Weimann (bar his own freak season last term).

A comparison of the total Championship careers of Cornick and five slightly random but vaguely relevant strikers. He actually stacks up reasonably well, especially his goals/shot ratio. That suggests that, like many of our strikers, when he does shoot it's a good and dangerous shot...he needs to shoot more often though as 1.61 shots per game is low for a striker.

The point I was making is that it’s important to consider a player’s record over a number of seasons, not just the last  season, for example Weimann or Flint a few seasons ago when he scored 15 goals. I think most people accept that he’s not a prolific scorer but I pointed out goals aren’t everything, as he’s played in a variety of positions, and has provided a number of assists. (That’s why I’m not a great fan of statistics, which are just raw data. What’s necessary is information, which is data with context) 
 

My last question - What does he bring to the team? - is the bit that worries me. So far he hasn’t demonstrated any real pace which is how the team likes to play on the break. The biggest disappointment for me is he lacks “presence”. Often City play against teams that have a couple of big tough central defenders and the forwards look a bit weak and are bullied off the ball. It would be nice to have a tough forward who could hold his own. Of course, the problem is, where do you get that type of Championship player for the money City were prepared to pay? 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I’ll be interested to see what Pearson thinks is going to be his best position, because at present we seem to be rotating a lot of players in the front three (goalkeeper aside the only area we really have choice) & nobody is really nailing down a spot.

Having a good pre season will be key for him as will building up an understanding with whoever else is picked.

I’m not expecting him to ever be prolific but (unlike some) I’m not writing him off just yet, either.

 

Left Back in the changing room?  

No, seriously I agree with your post. I don't think we can make the measure of him yet and summer and the start of the new season will really be the time to give a verdict.

I'd just rather see fewer underwhelming performances and Harry seems to be at the heart of most of those recently, so I'd rather not see his name appearing in the starting line-up for the Reading game.

Some people seem to have decided that Pearson can do no wrong in the transfer market, but of course he, like every manager in fact, can. Danny Simpson is a case in point. People will point out how cheap Simpson was, but paying an over-the-hill player who was slower than a pensioner going around Asda, for nearly one and a half seasons was a poor use of resources IMO. 

For now, I reserve judgement on Cornick, but I'd rather see less of him, until he has a pre-season with the club. 

[ExiledAjax]

20 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The point I was making is that it’s important to consider a player’s record over a number of seasons, not just the last  season, for example Weimann or Flint a few seasons ago when he scored 15 goals. I think most people accept that he’s not a prolific scorer but I pointed out goals aren’t everything, as he’s played in a variety of positions, and has provided a number of assists. (That’s why I’m not a great fan of statistics, which are just raw data. What’s necessary is information, which is data with context) 

Yes. I should have made it clear that my post was intented to provide further stats - you said you'd just been on Wikipedia and I got the impression you were after some more detailed stuff. I meant to support what you were saying about single season bias rather than contradict anything.

Edited March 21, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Simon bristol]

He maybe a replacement for martin, but was he really worth the cost of paying martin off, the transfer/ signing on/ agents fee plus the wage? I dont see anything he offers that conway doesnt and certainly not the big strong forward who scores goals that we are all identifying.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

The point I was making is that it’s important to consider a player’s record over a number of seasons, not just the last  season, for example Weimann or Flint a few seasons ago when he scored 15 goals. I think most people accept that he’s not a prolific scorer but I pointed out goals aren’t everything, as he’s played in a variety of positions, and has provided a number of assists. (That’s why I’m not a great fan of statistics, which are just raw data. What’s necessary is information, which is data with context) 
 

My last question - What does he bring to the team? - is the bit that worries me. So far he hasn’t demonstrated any real pace which is how the team likes to play on the break. The biggest disappointment for me is he lacks “presence”. Often City play against teams that have a couple of big tough central defenders and the forwards look a bit weak and are bullied off the ball. It would be nice to have a tough forward who could hold his own. Of course, the problem is, where do you get that type of Championship player for the money City were prepared to pay? 

Lots of stuff to ponder with Cornick.

I think he was a useful player for Luton.  For City, so far, he’s been a bit disappointing.  Here’s the games he’s featured in, and also shows his cup-tied game too.

I thought his first couple of subs showed a bit of rustiness, but also the hustle and bustle and pressing of opponent defences that I expected.  I thought his performance in his first start v Wigan was pretty decent.  Got  in amongst them, tried to link up, got down the sides.  I thought we lost a bit when he came off.

The next group of sub appearances were a bit mixed, probably a bit below par…although I thought he did what I expected against Blackpool as we saw out the game.  Luton we were crap as a team and he was no worse than others, in fact I thought he was better than quite a few, albeit seriously low bar!  Swansea he got little service early on, as he watched aimless balls hit into the channel which he was expected to chase.  Then he started to get a ball into feet, laid off or got fouled as we had a decent spell.  So he was “ok” in a below-par team kind of way.

He’s not hit the heights I expected.  But I don’t think he’s been as bad as others are making out.  But I agree he’s been below the 6/10 I’d normally give someone “earning their corn(ick)”.

As it stands I think his timing is out.  He is used to getting around and working off of another player(s) (Adebayo and / or Jerome and / or Morris).  So his game is about anticipating where the second ball is gonna be, not positioning himself for the first ball.  That’s quite a fundamental change.  Luton hit the front man / men as their first instinct and it’s Cornick’s job to get the next ball.  That’s a massive over-simplification of their game plan, but ours is different.  He’s adjusting to ours.  He’s now the first man, the target.  Much as I was critical of Diedhiou, at times he was sublime…sublime when his timing was aligned to the timing of the service from his teammates. If you’ve ever played back to goal or been the channel runner, timing is so important.

I’m convinced Cornick will improve / adjust.  Although you can definitely raise question marks about his fit to the way we play, versus what he’s come from.  Time will tell.

On an aside I think his running style is a bit like a dressage horse, but I don’t think he’s slow.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Davefevs

[spudski]

No sure whether this has been shared on this thread, but it gives an insight to the player. 

 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

The biggest disappointment for me is he lacks “presence”.

My 2p….for 2.5 seasons this was kinda labelled at Nahki Wells too.  Now, I read / hear people commenting on his ability as a “target man”, “back to goal”, “link-up man”, etc.

Just now, spudski said:

No sure whether this has been shared on this thread, but it gives an insight to the player. 

 

 

Yeah, was shared at the time the transfer rumours started / he was signed.  It’s a really good insight into him.

[Steve Watts]

19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Because he had an injury.

Dave, that's very generous.  That was back in August in fairness,  After the game on 30/8 he's been available for all but one matchday squad since then (and that was way back in September), so again, you would like to think he'd be able to get his fitness up together inside 4 months.

Like I said, I'm certainly not writing him off and really want him to be a success, as with all of our signings, obviously, but at the moment he's not shown what he's about so far.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Steve Watts said:

Dave, that's very generous.  That was back in August in fairness,  After the game on 30/8 he's been available for all but one matchday squad since then (and that was way back in September), so again, you would like to think he'd be able to get his fitness up together inside 4 months.

Like I said, I'm certainly not writing him off and really want him to be a success, as with all of our signings, obviously, but at the moment he's not shown what he's about so far.

He said he had niggles after that too.  It might be generous, I just see a player who hasn’t had a run of starts at Luton nor here of late struggling to adapt to a new way of playing.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 He’s now the first man, the target.  Much as I was critical of Diedhiou, at times he was sublime…sublime when his timing was aligned to the timing of the service from his teammates. If you’ve ever played back to goal or been the channel runner, timing is so important.

I’m convinced Cornick will improve / adjust.  Although you can definitely raise question marks about his fit to the way we play, versus what he’s come from.  Time will tell.

On an aside I think his running style is a bit like a dressage horse, but I don’t think he’s slow.

I can't see his strengths, long term, as being the first man target Dave. I really hope we aren't looking to try and turn him into that. 

I was hoping he was going to be the front right of a three up front. With say Bell, Conway, Cornick as the three. Cornick being the competition for where Sykes has been playing. 

His strengths as a player over recent years has been blocking and tackling defenders, assists, taking players on, acceleration, direct running, short term pace. 

As a 'central target man'...he's neither strong, aggressive, good at holding the ball with his back to goal, and definitely weak at Arial duals. 

I thought he'd suit our style of play with a high press and counter attack. 

He's had a purple patch in the past centrally, but it was a one off imo. 

He's also gone, not so long ago, 41 games without a goal. 

I hope we aren't long term trying a square peg in a round hole. 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

I can't see his strengths, long term, as being the first man target Dave. I really hope we aren't looking to try and turn him into that.

agree…nor me, and I don’t think we want to play like that anyway.  Wells (and even more so with Conway and Semenyo) that you don’t need the typical “target man” to be able to function.

I was hoping he was going to be the front right of a three up front. With say Bell, Conway, Cornick as the three. Cornick being the competition for where Sykes has been playing.

…albeit, likely to play narrower than Sykes.

His strengths as a player over recent years has been blocking and tackling defenders, assists, taking players on, acceleration, direct running, short term pace.

yep.

As a 'central target man'...he's neither strong, aggressive, good at holding the ball with his back to goal, and definitely weak at Arial duals.

agreed.

I thought he'd suit our style of play with a high press and counter attack. 

He's had a purple patch in the past centrally, but it was a one off imo.

“Support striker” not goalscorer per se is how I saw him.

He's also gone, not so long ago, 41 games without a goal. 

I hope we aren't long term trying a square peg in a round hole.

hope not too, Nige does talk about having different options.  Would like to see more of him with more of a first-choice eleven available too.

[AppyDAZE]

On 19/03/2023 at 14:43, wendyredredrobin said:

Looks like we sold a diamond and bought a lemon.

That'll help the lad. That is unless you don't want to.

[Offside]

Cornick’s City career has started slowly, but it’s early days and time will tell. The difficulty so far is that it’s been hard to see what type of player he is and what his strengths are, whereas with a player like Mehmeti it’s more obvious. 

One thing that did impress me about him was when he was instrumental in keeping the ball at the other end of the pitch when we were seeing a game out at AG (can’t remember which game, though)  

 

[wendyredredrobin]

1 hour ago, AppyDAZE said:

That'll help the lad. That is unless you don't want to.

Of course I would like to see him doing his job and scoring goals, but so far I've seen nothing to impress me as regards strength, pace, skill, ability to pass a ball to a team mate or hold up play. I really can't understand what out scouts were able to see in him.  But of course, I would love him to prove me wrong. 

He certainly seems to make an effort but his output is close to zero. Not the sort of player to bring on when you want to change a game and doesn't look up to L1 football, let alone Championship based on what he's done so far.

Probably the best way to help him would be to transfer him to a L2 team where he might be able to make an impact (and even at that level, I'm not convinced).

[Son of Fred]

5 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Of course I would like to see him doing his job and scoring goals, but so far I've seen nothing to impress me as regards strength, pace, skill, ability to pass a ball to a team mate or hold up play. I really can't understand what out scouts were able to see in him.  But of course, I would love him to prove me wrong. 

He certainly seems to make an effort but his output is close to zero. Not the sort of player to bring on when you want to change a game and doesn't look up to L1 football, let alone Championship based on what he's done so far.

Probably the best way to help him would be to transfer him to a L2 team where he might be able to make an impact (and even at that level, I'm not convinced).

Abridged version...

Technically poor.

[DaveF]

53 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Of course I would like to see him doing his job and scoring goals, but so far I've seen nothing to impress me as regards strength, pace, skill, ability to pass a ball to a team mate or hold up play. I really can't understand what out scouts were able to see in him.  But of course, I would love him to prove me wrong. 

He certainly seems to make an effort but his output is close to zero. Not the sort of player to bring on when you want to change a game and doesn't look up to L1 football, let alone Championship based on what he's done so far.

Probably the best way to help him would be to transfer him to a L2 team where he might be able to make an impact (and even at that level, I'm not convinced).

12 goals and 5 assists in 38 appearances last season suggests he's certainly good enough for this level...

[wendyredredrobin]

52 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

accurate abridged version: 

Insulting, vindictive claptrap spouted by a non entity with no experience or knowledge of the game of football.

 

So what kind of entity might you be? Oink oink.

Just stating that he looks useless and giving examples to demonstrate.  Now please keep it civil.

[Guest Hatter passing by]

29 minutes ago, DaveF said:

12 goals and 5 assists in 38 appearances last season suggests he's certainly good enough for this level...

View from a Hatter who won't stay here long.

I would say after 6 years at Luton (and largely under one Manager) that Cornick completely understood his role in the team. What to do, how to do, where to go, when to go, this had been instilled in him to the point you could say he was institutionalised. In terms of fitness, he hardly ever missed a game and he produced over 800m of short sprints per game and he was specifically adept at the press. His finishing was inconsistent, last year being the outlier, as you never felt he would score one on ones, certainly not instinctive. His big asset is pace and was more effective in away games where teams attacked Luton and left space behind, less so at home where low blocks were employed against us and he's not got a trick or technical ability to beat a player in close environments.

He has never ever ever ever played as a Number 9 with back to goal, holding play, winning headers etc and the idea that he can improve and be trained to do this seems odd to me. Played off a big man he plays decent enough in a 2 and wide right in a 3, not convinced there's another position for him. I genuinely wish him well, he was brilliant for us, in our regimented system (has been some changes since Edwards came in) and would've kept him as a back up/impact sub but understood the financial opportunity for him and chance to play. Just think the due diligence on him when recruiting was missing a lot of pages of detail...

 

 

 

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

accurate abridged version: 

Insulting, vindictive claptrap spouted by a non entity with no experience or knowledge of the game of football.

 

That’s a rather uncouth reply. Why not be couth? 

[pongo88]

51 minutes ago, DaveF said:

12 goals and 5 assists in 38 appearances last season suggests he's certainly good enough for this level...

Last season was a fluke as in his previous 3 seasons at Championship level he only scored a total of 11 goals. In a previous post I mentioned the danger in only referring to one season in isolation and the danger of using raw statistics without supporting information to put it into context 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

accurate abridged version: 

Insulting, vindictive claptrap spouted by a non entity with no experience or knowledge of the game of football.

 

Plus it’s also perfectly possible to be technically poor and effective / performing.  Plenty of players in the past haven’t been technically blessed but been good for us.

Anyone who’s watched him at Luton would know that he’s not a technician.  That’s not his skillset, but he brings other things…just not shown them yet.  

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

unfortunately you're about as funny as Miranda. 

Haha, that made me laugh.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

You're calling one of our newest players useless and should play at a level beneath the sags and have the cheek to demand anyone else keeps it civil? You embody everything that's wrong with our fanbase and society in general, Wendy. Hypocritical, over the top and nasty with it.

You should be embarrassed. Being kind, perhaps you were trying to be funny, unfortunately you're about as funny as Miranda. 

 

Regardless of whether you think Wendy is voicing a ridiculous opinion , this is a discussion forum and she is entitled to her view. 

I'm with you on waiting to see if he works out as intended, but I'm probably less certain that he will. 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Regardless of whether you think Wendy is voicing a ridiculous opinion , this is a discussion forum and she is entitled to her view. 

I'm with you on waiting to see if he works out as intended, but I'm probably less certain that he will. 

I’d always assumed Wendy wasn’t anything to do with the poster’s gender, but a joke on “when the red red Robin”, but like “biggus dickus” or “nautious maximus”!

[maxjak]

On 20/03/2023 at 18:15, Percy Pig said:

Martin was not a former player when he signed. Cornick's signing allowed us to tear up Martins contract.

Therefore he is better than what we had at the time. Unless of course we are rewriting history and claiming Martin wasn't the whipping boy for his last 6 months here? 

 Pedant.....

[Red-Robbo]

28 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

 

I spoke privately to another poster on here the other day about Cornick and my theory is that his ungainly style is the main reason City fans have not taken to him. I cannot remember a single ungainly player who has been liked by our fansbase. One of my first memories as a kid watching City was the pelters Steve Torpey got, a player I genuinely thought was very good. Same season the absolute dogs abuse Ward would get for leaving out Goodridge who whilst fun to watch produced very little. 

 

 

I don't care if he runs like a dog with three legs, my main issue is he's had 390 minutes, spread over 10 appearances and hasn't produced anything of note, so - while we have other options who have produced results for us - I'd go with them. At least until summer.

If he starts scoring and providing assists, I will "take to him", as, I imagine, will most others. 

 

[AppyDAZE]

7 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Of course I would like to see him doing his job and scoring goals, but so far I've seen nothing to impress me as regards strength, pace, skill, ability to pass a ball to a team mate or hold up play. I really can't understand what out scouts were able to see in him.  But of course, I would love him to prove me wrong. 

He certainly seems to make an effort but his output is close to zero. Not the sort of player to bring on when you want to change a game and doesn't look up to L1 football, let alone Championship based on what he's done so far.

Probably the best way to help him would be to transfer him to a L2 team where he might be able to make an impact (and even at that level, I'm not convinced).

Clearly so cross. Seriously, you want to get a ******* life. This is just a guy adjusting to a new club and a new enviroment and sometimes these things take time.

If he turns out to not be the deal, so what. But give the ****** a chance ffs.

People on here like you make me pig sick, they really do.

But then again, I remember this time last year when it was all about how shit Zak Vyner was (and now he's heading for possible player of the season)

You seem to never learn, but maybe you just enjoy being *****.

Support the team, support the players, especially the new ones, and stop acting like spoilt children who want it all and want it all NOW.

You're an idiot, and I have no regret with saying that.

Grow the **** up or please just stop posting unwarrented bullshit about players that you haven't a jack shit scooby about.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by AppyDAZE

[Topper 123]

I think what a lot of fans forget is he’s a city player end off , the way we been playing last 5 games harry kane would look out of place up front , our supply to forwards is shit our crossing diabolical and as someone else said he ain’t a big ball winning 9 he plays wide right of 3 , so get off his back have a look at the wasted ball aimlessly pumped forward by backs and midfield and wait until the guy gets a go out right with Naismith in the middle laying some balls 

he’s a city lad now one of our family let’s encourage ffs 

[wendyredredrobin]

50 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Clearly so cross. Seriously, you want to get a ******* life. This is just a guy adjusting to a new club and a new enviroment and sometimes these things take time.

If he turns out to not be the deal, so what. But give the ****** a chance ffs.

People on here like you make me pig sick, they really do.

But then again, I remember this time last year when it was all about how shit Zak Vyner was (and now he's heading for possible player of the season)

You seem to never learn, but maybe you just enjoy being *****.

Support the team, support the players, especially the new ones, and stop acting like spoilt children who want it all and want it all NOW.

You're an idiot, and I have no regret with saying that.

Grow the **** up or please just stop posting unwarrented bullshit about players that you haven't a jack shit scooby about.

 

Jesus, spouting abuse like that and you call someone else an idiot

[Port Said Red]

On 20/03/2023 at 10:06, Henry said:

I think all our strikers look better in a 2.

Whilst the 443 has looked okay, I don’t think we’ve been as effective upfront since changing

I would hope if we played 4-4-3 next season we would be pretty successful.

[Son of Fred]

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I would hope if we played 4-4-3 next season we would be pretty successful.

Now I see where 'Crafty' Cornick comes into the equation

[Son of Fred]

6 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Clearly so cross. Seriously, you want to get a ******* life. This is just a guy adjusting to a new club and a new enviroment and sometimes these things take time.

If he turns out to not be the deal, so what. But give the ****** a chance ffs.

People on here like you make me pig sick, they really do.

But then again, I remember this time last year when it was all about how shit Zak Vyner was (and now he's heading for possible player of the season)

You seem to never learn, but maybe you just enjoy being *****.

Support the team, support the players, especially the new ones, and stop acting like spoilt children who want it all and want it all NOW.

You're an idiot, and I have no regret with saying that.

Grow the **** up or please just stop posting unwarrented bullshit about players that you haven't a jack shit scooby about.

 

I'm surprised & disappointed at one particular individual supporting this disgusting post - you know who you are.

[robinforlife2]

12 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

You're calling one of our newest players useless and should play at a level beneath the sags and have the cheek to demand anyone else keeps it civil? You embody everything that's wrong with our fanbase and society in general, Wendy. Hypocritical, over the top and nasty with it.

You should be embarrassed. Being kind, perhaps you were trying to be funny, unfortunately you're about as funny as Miranda. 

The difference is Percy, he has made an opinion of the player on what he has seen. That the player currently doesn’t look up to this level of ability needed. Time May change that, but at present, he looks technically and physically weak.

On the other hand, when someone posts something you disagree with, you NEVER reply with anything constructive. You instead reply with insults, personally attacks and make out like you know better than anyone. I am personally amazed that Moderators haven’t warned or better still banned you. This isn’t a one off, your personal attacks of posters is constant and daily. Your rude approach to people is a bully boy tactic which has no place on a public forum. Attack the post and not the poster! Be constructive in your replies, and maybe point why people may be wrong about Cornick and what you have seen different. 
The problem is, the minute anyone has something negative to say about anything to do with Bristol City, you are there to attack them and call them idiots, clueless, question their knowledge of football etc

I hope you change your tact quickly, or better still, moderators do something about you. 
 

Last week you called me a cock, you don’t know me, you didn’t even address the post, you went off in your insulting condescending attitude which is unwelcoming to any posters.

Guess what! Harry Cornick is being paid a lot of money to do something he is meant to be good at, but at present, he looks nowhere near up to this level. If fans want to voice this, they are entitled to, as it’s a forum. If you don’t agree, that is fine, but it is to give reasonable and balanced discussion as to why they may be wrong, not just to attack every poster who doesn’t share your opinions!

If you continue your approach, hopefully moderators will do something about, which they should have already to be honest!

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

I'm surprised & disappointed at one particular individual supporting this disgusting post - you know who you are.

Who is that…me?  If so, I like posts for all kinds of reasons.  I add a like to posts because I agree with them.  I sometimes also add a like to posts I disagree with, but get the angle the poster is coming from, they’ve articulated something well, etc, etc.

Happy to give out the different emojis as I see fit….I don’t take too much stock in the emojis I get back to my posts, although I’d rather posters explained their use of “confused” or “hmmmm” emojis in a post, but each to their own.  I’ve got no issues with posters having a different view to me either.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Davefevs

[Super]

4 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

I'm surprised & disappointed at one particular individual supporting this disgusting post - you know who you are.

Is this person not allowed an opinion then?

[ashton_fan]

As has been noted here before City score more goals with Naismith in the side, since he got injured at Preston we've only scored more than one goal once, that was against Blackpool when Cornick played a part in setting up the second goal for Scott. The first time Cornick played for us was in that Preston game when he came on as sub after Naismith had left the pitch injured, so he has never been on the pitch at the same time as Naismith. Our other forwards have also struggled in this period (Nahki has score twice but both were penalties) so it's a bit unfair on Cornick, let's see how he does when the team's creating more chances before judging, he always puts in a good shift effort wise, it's unfair to judge him when there are scant chances for the forwards.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

As has been noted here before City score more goals with Naismith in the side, since he got injured at Preston we've only scored more than one goal once, that was against Blackpool when Cornick played a part in setting up the second goal for Scott. The first time Cornick played for us was in that Preston game when he came on as sub after Naismith had left the pitch injured, so he has never been on the pitch at the same time as Naismith. Our other forwards have also struggled in this period (Nahki has score twice but both were penalties) so it's a bit unfair on Cornick, let's see how he does when the team's creating more chances before judging, he always puts in a good shift effort wise, it's unfair to judge him when there are scant chances for the forwards.

And that was the exact thrust of my reply to RedRobbo, that all the forwards are struggling a bit at the mo’.

[WorleRed89]

On 20/03/2023 at 16:49, maxjak said:

As it revealed something hitherto unknown..........personally i would rather have been kept in the dark?   I will not jump on the Bash Cornick bus, but I will be astounded if he is a regular in the First Team next season..especially as Pearson stated " I will will not sign players just for the sake of it, they have to be better than what we already have ? "  I look forward to seeing who he is better than?

He is better than no one in place of Antoine, we essentially replaced Antione with Mehmeti & Cornick. Hes been here a matter of weeks, give him a chance.

[wendyredredrobin]

With Mehmeti, I can see why we signed him.  I see effort and skill but limited output that we (and he) can maybe address. With Harry Cornick, I can't see anything positive in his play and remain at a loss to understand what our scouts were able to see that I can't.

To be fair, our forwards have not been receiving much support from midfield of late and I have noticed with Cornick that when he gets the ball, there seems to be little on for him in that there is nobody around him getting into space or any easy/obvious passes on.

From a formation perspective, I really don't know what suits us best.  It seems that when we change it, it seems to work, then in a couple of games the other teams work us out, so we may need to keep them guessing and mix it up a bit (even though it's nice to see a settled team and formation in an ideal world).

This season is probably a write off now and we need to concentrate on building something for bext year (probably without Alex Scott but with one or two incoming to improve things).  The frustrating thing is that the next few games would have been so much more exciting had we not thrown away some of the matches we should have got points from and been 8 or 9 more points further up the table.

[robinforlife2]

3 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

1: It's a forum yes, and you want to have someone who disagrees with you banned. That's pretty soft.

2: You think comparing a player to Bas Savage and Andy Smith is constructive debate? Do me a favour. 

3: I also said you were being a cock, not that you are a cock. Pretty massive difference. And you were being a cock. 

4: If you think I'm being a cock for saying you're being a cock, feel free to tell me. I promise I won't have a tantrum trying to get you cancelled.

 

I will address your reply in points 1 to 4;

1: No I don't want to have someone who disagrees with me banned, I think that someone who throws out insults left, right and centre and adds little constructive comment to their posts, but is very quick to call people clueless, idiots, cocks or saying they don't know what they are on about, and have no football knowledge, like they are above people, should be warned/banned for their CONSTANT disgusting way of speaking to people. 

2: Why is comparing a player to two previous players not constructive, I'll explain.

Bas Savage, was not an awful player for us. He had around 1400 minutes for us, and in games he was involved for us he contributed. He actually had good vision, and got himself in very good positions. Sadly, his finishing ability was lacklustre and he was rather weak for a big player. He was involved in 23 matches for Bristol City of which he scored once and got an assist, and we won 11 and drew 6 of the 23 games he played for us. However he was not good enough to take us forward. Cornick reminds me of him, as he to is a player, who looks like he can read the game very well, and can get himself in positions, but with the ball he is weak and not very creative and does not look the type of player who will score goals, which essentially is what you want from a striker. For my Harry Cornick reminds me of Bas Savage in the ways as stated above, but Savage went on to have a decent career at a lower level WHERE his attributes made him a more suitable player to that level of ability.

Now, I am not saying that Cornick is a League One / League Two player just yet, but in his limited starts for us, it is not clicking and I DON'T see what he adds to our squad, in fact I think he is keeping players out of the squad and starting eleven who have proven themselves better than Cornick in games for Bristol City. 

Andy Smith on the other hand, joined us in January 2007 when we were chasing promotion to the Championship on a short term deal, he had previously played for Preston in the Championship, and was a player who had looked good at previous clubs, but with one issue, he couldn't score goals. He was a deadline day signing when we needed forward cover and he was brought in on a short term deal.

Sadly for us and Smith, he was like a deer in headlights. He had pace, he got in positions, and he read the game well, but when he got the ball, he couldn't hold on to it and his finishing was poor. He simply was a case of all pace and no product.

Now both the players I compared Cornick to, are similar, in that they were January signings, at a time we NEEDED forward cover, they were players who had pace and were good readers of the game and got themselves in good positions. However as with the past, for all these attributes are fantastic at a lower level, at this level, you need a bit more and when it comes to it, they were found wanting.

Cornick may be ring rusty and may need time, but his initial games for us, reminds me of players of the past, who like him look very good off the ball, but with it, they don't have the strength or the finishing ability to do anything with it. The problem is, many managers say players worked hard, they chased the game, they got in positions and etc, but the reality is, as a striker if you don't contribute with assists or goals, then you are technically a flop.

You were saying Cornick was a better player than who he replaced, meaning Martin. Now he may be better that Chris Martin is now, but Chris Martin was very good over a number of seasons for us, was effective pretty much from when he signed, and it's only a case of his legs have started to go, we let him leave. However in 7 games for QPR, he has scored twice and got 2 assists, and one would say in what he has achieved at QPR, he has done more than what we have replaced him with, so actually is Cornick a better replacement? It's questionable. 

Cornick over 4 years at Luton got a total of 29 goals, 18 of these in one season, when he played off a good target man and used his pace to get into positions and score simple goals. In three previous seasons he netted just 11 times and was regarded by many fans as a weak finisher but gets in the positions.

The Championship teaches you that you have to take your chances, and I fear that Cornick does not fit this mould. He also is being played as a 9, which he has never been in his career and for me he is keeping more suitable players out of the starting line up. We improved markedly within minutes of him coming off on Sunday and having Nahki and Mehmeti up top. We started with the wrong forward line, and couldn't do anything about it, by the time the Cornick experiment was ended. 

I hope he comes good, but I stand by what I said, that at present he looks like a reincarnation of Bas Savage or Andy Smith, and I also question if he was actually a player we needed, but maybe more of a panic response to Semenyo being sold and the worry we were thin on the ground up top. He certainly doesn't fit any of the profiles of players that the club have said we were looking to sign. 

3: I was not being a cock, I was stating my opinion, which is not changed as shown above. Just because you don't agree with that, does not mean I was being a cock!

4: I don't think you're being a cock for saying I was being one, I think you are a very rude person who attacks posters for no reason other than you disagree with them and THINK you know better. You have many a time, suggested you are "In The Know" by the way you have commented on club affairs, but not backed this up with any source or proof. I personally think if you stopped the insults and personal comments, you would offer a lot more, as you often have a different view to the debate, but whilst you conduct yourself in the way you do, you will do yourself any favours and if you continue on that path, and continue to make personal remarks to people, it would only be a matter of time until moderators done something.
That is why I posted what I did, hoping you might sit back and reflect on the way you conduct yourself and realise it does not do you any favours. I won't say you are a cock or acting like one, because I don't know you, but at the same, I am happy to say, I don't like the rude nature of your posts and it's constant every time you disagree with something, like you are an oracle whose opinion has to be correct. There are times when arrogance can be a good trait in life, but on a public forum, throwing rude accusations and insinuations around is not one of those times.

You need not reply, unless it is constructive, to which I invite you to reply. But please look at your posts and your comments to posters. If you can't see that, that approach is rude and wrong, then that's a shame, as if you continue down that path, you will only end up getting yourself banned.

That is all. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, wendyredredrobin said:

I can't see anything positive in his play and remain at a loss to understand what our scouts were able to see that I can't.

Out of interest, what was your view of Cornick (his game style) before he signed because that’s the basis to criticise what our scouts saw in him….isn’t it?  If you had no prior view, that’s fine, just be good to understand your angle.

(Don’t forget they scouted him on his Luton performances not his Bristol City ones)

For me, if there is a criticism to be levelled at our scouting / recruitment and the processes, based on my view of the Luton-Cornick, it’s not is he any good, but is he a good fit for the way we play / the way we’re gonna play.

The bloke at Luton was a totally capable Championship forward.

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, WorleRed89 said:

He is better than no one in place of Antoine, we essentially replaced Antione with Mehmeti & Cornick. Hes been here a matter of weeks, give him a chance.

I am totally prepared to give him a chance.............but our dearth of goals shows just how much we relied upon Antoine, such a shame he could not have stayed until the end of the season....instead of warming Bournemouth's bench?    He will be intrinsic to their promotion push nest season.

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

He might well be a dud, but can we not just wait and see before the narrative on here and on Social Media spreads to Ashton Gate and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy? That's my overriding worry. I remember Colin Cramb speaking not long after signing about how the Gate was a difficult place to play for our own players... We've seen Managers from Ward to Johnson begging our fans for support and positivity. Is it really an ridiculous thing for me to worry about? that our toxicity will once again hinder the team?

 

Only players themselves can prove themselves to fans. And if their appearances are underwhelming then they aren't going to be popular. 

That's the same in Ashton Gate as it is everywhere.  No one makes up their mind about a player before seeing him play a number of times and no player runs out and thinks "I've read nasty things on social media about me. I'm going to play shit."

Players who were not crowd favourites, like Vyner, have managed to turn perceptions around by cutting out the silly mistakes and is now favourite for supporters' club POTY. Other fans' favourites lost public support when their form plummeted: I'm thinking Liam Fontaine among others.

I don't remember people being particularly negative about Cramby, he was part of a promotion side. But he wasn't as good as Akinbiyi, so he lost his place. 

I'm with you that it's too early to pronounce Cornick "a dud". But I don't approve of blaming the paying crowd for players' performances. That's Barton-esque. 

[maxjak]

On 21/03/2023 at 09:19, GrahamC said:

I think some of that is fair, but can’t see the point in going back further than his last 4 seasons.

He said himself he was a late developer, he’s not an Academy product but has as you point out, played 4 seasons of Championship football in a row with certainly an inconsistent scoring record.

I’ll be interested to see what Pearson thinks is going to be his best position, because at present we seem to be rotating a lot of players in the front three (goalkeeper aside the only area we really have choice) & nobody is really nailing down a spot.

Having a good pre season will be key for him as will building up an understanding with whoever else is picked.

I’m not expecting him to ever be prolific but (unlike some) I’m not writing him off just yet, either.

Carlton Morris of Luton FC is a prime example of a late developer?  He has drifted around the lower leagues in the early part of his career, and now, after reaching the grand old age of 26/27 he is becoming a prolific,   excellent striker.  As was shown last week against us, he is fit, hungry  and desperate to do well.   I cannot see Cornick (Who is obviously a different type and style) having a similar trajectory..........but you never can say.....Never?

[Top Robin]

I have seen Cornick play a few times before he came to us and he was superb. 

More creative rather than prolific goal scorer.

Really don't know where that has gone but I hope it comes back. 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, robinforlife2 said:

 

Cornick over 4 years at Luton got a total of 29 goals, 18 of these in one season, when he played off a good target man and used his pace to get into positions and score simple goals. In three previous seasons he netted just 11 times and was regarded by many fans as a weak finisher but gets in the positions.

I hope he comes good, but I stand by what I said, that at present he looks like a reincarnation of Bas Savage or Andy Smith, and I also question if he was actually a player we needed, but maybe more of a panic response to Semenyo being sold and the worry we were thin on the ground up top. He certainly doesn't fit any of the profiles of players that the club have said we were looking to sign. 

 

This is an incredibly lengthy post & so I’ve deleted a lot of it in my reply, firstly because I don’t disagree with all of it but also because it would dilute my points.

You are factually incorrect about Cornick’s scoring record, as he’s never scored 18 in a season, last season he got 13, that’s his highest, this season (in 7 Luton starts) he had 2, in prior seasons it was 1, 9 & 8. He scored 38 goals in total for Luton. Soccerbase has this data.

Secondly whilst I accept comparisons of players are simply opinions, Andy Smith never scored a single goal in English football, Bas Savage got very few in his entire career & none of them above league one.

To compare these two players to someone who got double figures in the Championship last season therefore seems very odd to me.

[robinforlife2]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

This is an incredibly lengthy post & so I’ve deleted a lot of it in my reply, firstly because I don’t disagree with all of it but also because it would dilute my points.

You are factually incorrect about Cornick’s scoring record, as he’s never scored 18 in a season, last season he got 13, that’s his highest, this season (in 7 Luton starts) he had 2, in prior seasons it was 1, 9 & 8. He scored 38 goals in total for Luton. Soccerbase has this data.

Secondly whilst I accept comparisons of players are simply opinions, Andy Smith never scored a single goal in English football, Bas Savage got very few in his entire career & none of them above league one.

To compare these two players to someone who got double figures in the Championship last season therefore seems very odd to me.

Fair points, it was more in line with the type of player they are, their style of play, and the time of year they were purchased. He just looks a player that struggles to finish for me, but what he does off the ball reminds me a lot of the two players I mentioned, but as a striker, goals are important. I am not saying he is of their standard, which is League Two / League One at best, but he looks more like the type of player we would have purchased if we were in League One, than a team looking to progress to a top ten Championship side. 

[spudski]

Just to clarify...if you watch the Cornick video I put up, Harry speaks about Social media and it's influence on a player. 

He says he no longer reads it, or ' Google's his name', as it does effect a player. He also says he's had times in the past where fans were highly negative of him, so it's not new to him.

I'd suggest most players don't read social media posts about them.

However...it's obvious local media use social media posts to gauge a feeling from the fan base. They sometimes quote posts. 

Constructive criticism can be positive. 

Negativity for the sake of it, not so. 

Fans can make a difference in many forms. 

You've only got to read Joe Morrells comments about how the blue few booing inspired him and Ryley to up their game and stick one up them.

 

 

[Swede]

It's far better to be constructive rather than destructive when talking about current players. You will get nowhere posting that this player is 5hit, that player is carp.

Nobody really knows what goes on other than specuating.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 hours ago, Magger1 said:

I think what a lot of fans forget is he’s a city player end off , the way we been playing last 5 games harry kane would look out of place up front , our supply to forwards is shit our crossing diabolical and as someone else said he ain’t a big ball winning 9 he plays wide right of 3 , so get off his back have a look at the wasted ball aimlessly pumped forward by backs and midfield and wait until the guy gets a go out right with Naismith in the middle laying some balls 

he’s a city lad now one of our family let’s encourage ffs 

Don't fully agree with your negative appraisal, think we deserved more vs Huddersfield and Cardiff e.g. (draw to win and loss to draw respectively) but I do agree that now isn't the best time to judge Cornick as the midfield is decimated, the building from the back has become a problem and an already thin squad has got thinner in January.

Plus mid season etc.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

I'm fairly sure you're misinterpreting the point deliberately...

But I once again ask the question, do you think the groans, the comments on social media etc etc have a positive or negative impact on a players performance? 

If I came to your place of work and groaned every time you made a spelling mistake or commented under every file you uploaded to the database that your work was shit, you are a waste of a wage and you should have gone to work at McDonalds rather than here, how would that effect your performance? Equally, what does positive feedback, recognition and the feeling that you are trusted to make mistakes do for your confidence and subsequently performance? 

 

If you're a professional sportsman you have to shut that sort of background noise out  It's just about you, the men around you, and the men facing you. And your gaffer, I suppose I should add. You perform for you. You do your best for your own pride, self worth and self challenge. 

AG is no different from other grounds. Despite people occasionally trying to paint our supporters as negative,  I don't think they vary that much from other fans I know. Bit quieter perhsps than some, but we haven't had much to cheer in recent seasons. 

In terms of me being a "different sort of supporter" than you. I support the club. I have been doing so for all my life and have 50+ years of attendance. I even flew in from America for some games , when I lived there.

Every game I'm willing Bristol City to win. So I want them to put out their best side possible.  I support the club, not individual players,  and if some are not performing I don't want them selected and I'd rather they leave if they can't or won't improve*. 

That's basically where I'm coming from and if that upsets some of the highly paid professionals out there then they might be in the wrong job. 

 

 

* Not talking about Cornick here.

 

 

[spudski]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

If you're a professional sportsman you have to shut that sort of background noise out  It's just about you, the men around you, and the men facing you. And your gaffer, I suppose I should add. You perform for you. You do your best for your own pride, self worth and self challenge. 

AG is no different from other grounds. Despite people occasionally trying to paint our supporters as negative,  I don't think they vary that much from other fans I know. Bit quieter perhsps than some, but we haven't had much to cheer in recent seasons. 

In terms of me being a "different sort of supporter" than you. I support the club. I have been doing so for all my life and have 50+ years of attendance. I even flew in from America for some games , when I lived there.

Every game I'm willing Bristol City to win. So I want them to put out their best side possible.  I support the club, not individual players,  and if some are not performing I don't want them selected and I'd rather they leave if they can't or won't improve*. 

That's basically where I'm coming from and if that upsets some of the highly paid professionals out there then they might be in the wrong job. 

 

 

* Not talking about Cornick here.

 

 

That's easier said than done RR.

It's so easy for us as fans to not understand what it's like to be playing in front of a crowd.

Imo...it's probably the one thing that's most over looked by us as fans.

Playing any sport in front of a crowd is nerve racking.

To be able to play without any nerves, and block it out, is nigh in impossible. 

It's probably the one thing that annoys me the most with fans, is when they get on a players back if they make mistakes. As fans...why don't we encourage instead of moan, boo etc?

Getting behind a player as a supporter would be so much more beneficial, but the majority do the opposite.

Even NP alluded to it last interview when he spoke about getting used to the ' theatre' of games, when talking about OTC debut. 

As a teenager or early 20s...playing in front of a crowd that are judging you is ridiculous pressure. Being able to play your natural game with nerves, adrenaline, head pumping, legs shaking...takes some doing. E

[Red-Robbo]

40 minutes ago, spudski said:

That's easier said than done RR.

It's so easy for us as fans to not understand what it's like to be playing in front of a crowd.

Imo...it's probably the one thing that's most over looked by us as fans.

Playing any sport in front of a crowd is nerve racking.

To be able to play without any nerves, and block it out, is nigh in impossible. 

It's probably the one thing that annoys me the most with fans, is when they get on a players back if they make mistakes. As fans...why don't we encourage instead of moan, boo etc?

Getting behind a player as a supporter would be so much more beneficial, but the majority do the opposite.

Even NP alluded to it last interview when he spoke about getting used to the ' theatre' of games, when talking about OTC debut. 

As a teenager or early 20s...playing in front of a crowd that are judging you is ridiculous pressure. Being able to play your natural game with nerves, adrenaline, head pumping, legs shaking...takes some doing. E

 

Every away game players are called on to play before hostile, jeering and often insulting crowds.  Players are often fans themselves and they know from their time in the stands that when someone drops an appalling clanger or when someone has not been playing that well, but is subbed on, there is often a little groan. 

TBH they are paid silly money amounts to cope with that. Let negativity fire you up to show the doubters wrong. 

I've never booed our own players, but we pay money to watch the team and we are the lifers at City. They are the men being paid to perform and often see Bristol City as just another job in a career that may encompass many. If we feel let down, crowds are entitled to show that, rather than being asked to clap crap performances. I don't boo our guys, but sometimes my silence (and those of fans around me) speaks volumes. 

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Every away game players are called on to play before hostile, jeering and often insulting crowds.  Players are often fans themselves and they know from their time in the stands that when someone drops an appalling clanger or when someone has not been playing that well, but is subbed on, there is often a little groan. 

TBH they are paid silly money amounts to cope with that. Let negativity fire you up to show the doubters wrong. 

I've never booed our own players, but we pay money to watch the team and we are the lifers at City. They are the men being paid to perform and often see Bristol City as just another job in a career that may encompass many. If we feel let down, crowds are entitled to show that, rather than being asked to clap crap performances. I don't boo our guys, but sometimes my silence (and those of fans around me) speaks volumes. 

Whilst I get your sentiments RR...I can't help but feel from your reply you truly don't understand it. 

Have you ever performed in front of a crowd before, in a sporting sense?

Players may know what to expect, but that still doesn't prepare you.

Money has nothing to do with it...you can't just switch a button because you've been paid ££££s...human emotion doesn't work like that. 

Your response sadly proves my point, that fans generally don't get it. 

What to expect and money has no difference on the reality. 

It's like saying... 'here's a gun, I'm paying you a shit load of money to run on that beach and be shot at by the Nazis, you've seen the films, you know what to expect...don't shit your pants, feel sick, it's not going to hurt. 

[exAtyeoMax]

I really hope Harry comes good…I've got faith in him. 

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Whilst I get your sentiments RR...I can't help but feel from your reply you truly don't understand it. 

Have you ever performed in front of a crowd before, in a sporting sense?

Players may know what to expect, but that still doesn't prepare you.

Money has nothing to do with it...you can't just switch a button because you've been paid ££££s...human emotion doesn't work like that. 

Your response sadly proves my point, that fans generally don't get it. 

What to expect and money has no difference on the reality. 

It's like saying... 'here's a gun, I'm paying you a shit load of money to run on that beach and be shot at by the Nazis, you've seen the films, you know what to expect...don't shit your pants, feel sick, it's not going to hurt. 

 

Whether it is right or not, it's life and they have to just focus on the game. And that's what the really successful players and managers do.

Lots of us have jobs where our work is on show to the public and we might get unfair or OTT criticism from people not particularly qualified to pass judgement. Football is more immediate, more visceral, than most disciplines, but 'twas ever thus.

The growing of a thick skin is essential for development.