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Haikin Released (Confirmed)

Port Said Red

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Port Said Red

Port Said Red

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6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

 

Easy enough concept to grasp: there are players who can look good in a training scenario, but who'll not make it to elite levels of the game. Only a minority of players will do so. 

But Cornick already has a good record at this level, he will come good for us as well as long as the fans don't write him off beforehand.

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Maybe

 

C'mon Dave. I think you're falling for the "let's defend Cornick at all cost" faction that has mysteriously taken root here - but not among many on the terraces.

You cannot question that both Wells and Bell have had more successful games in a City shirt than Cornick has.  The fact that the afore mentioned haven't shone recently might be in part due to the team consistently looking poorer and less likely to score when HC is playing. 

That sounds harsh, but I'm being realistic. He hasn't established himself as a player who'll take us forward, nor even - this season - as a squad player "club in the bag".

That could change, and obviously his record from last season suggests he isn't "L2 standard". But this season, he'd only scored two for Luton, so it could be he's one of those players that has extended periods of poor form. He's in one now and I'd rather not see him playing on April 1st.

Anyway, I don't want to divert the entire thread from the discussion about our paucity of goalkeepers and a signing that, by any standards, hasn't worked out. 

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

But Cornick already has a good record at this level, he will come good for us as well as long as the fans don't write him off beforehand.

Love to share your confidence in that, PSR, but whether he comes good won't depend on fans, but on him.  He scored one league goal this season in 21 appearances for Luton (some were from the bench) and he also only scored one league goal for them in 20/21 (against us!) so I don't know if his 21/22 season is enough to say he has a good record in the Championship. 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

C'mon Dave. I think you're falling for the "let's defend Cornick at all cost" faction that has mysteriously taken root here - but not among many on the terraces.

You cannot question that both Wells and Bell have had more successful games in a City shirt than Cornick has.  The fact that the afore mentioned haven't shone recently might be in part due to the team consistently looking poorer and less likely to score when HC is playing. 

That sounds harsh, but I'm being realistic. He hasn't established himself as a player who'll take us forward, nor even - this season - as a squad player "club in the bag".

That could change, and obviously his record from last season suggests he isn't "L2 standard". But this season, he'd only scored two for Luton, so it could be he's one of those players that has extended periods of poor form. He's in one now and I'd rather not see him playing on April 1st.

Anyway, I don't want to divert the entire thread from the discussion about our paucity of goalkeepers and a signing that, by any standards, hasn't worked out. 

No, not doubting that at all, but I’m talking about in the period of games since he joined…that is much more in doubt.  That’s the context of what I’m saying is more questionable.

 

Back to Haikin…he’s a perfectly decent keeper, his performances for Bodo in Europe prove he’s no mug.  But Max ousted Bentley (Bentley ousted himself???) and has deservedly claimed the no1 (12) jersey.  Max has done nothing to warrant losing his place, no Nik has had to resign himself to being on the bench.  Some are happy to be a no2, Nik appears to not be, and he’s sought an opportunity to rejoin his former team.

I honestly don’t think it’s really a reflection on his ability (crikey- our former no1, a perfectly decent keeper went upwards to the PL!!!), and it’s provided us with experienced cover whilst we attain enough points to not have to worry about Max getting injured and having to play Wiles-Richards in a potential relegation battle, whilst allowing Bajic to gain more first team experience.  So in a way you could say it has worked out.  But that’s my logic!

As for Wiles-Richards, I’m quite interested to see how he takes on being no2.  His contract is up in the summer.  He has ability, the big question marks will be application / mentality.  Maybe that’s Nige setting the challenge?  It’s a big opportunity.

I’ve no idea on Bajic next season.  I could see him being no2, but equally I could see him being moved on also.

Just throwing in some other stuff, but we went through 14/15 with Dave Richards as our no2 to Frankie.  He didn’t see any action, but I sat in the tin shack on the corner / in front of the away supporters in the Atyeo that season…by the practice net, and saw a young keeper grow significantly through exposure to being with the first team.  He was bloody awful at the start of the season, but much better by the end of it.  Not sure Cotts wouldn’t have delved into the emergency loan market had Frankie got injured, but he’s carved out a career in Lg1/2, closing in on 100 apps.  The season before we went through ‘em like nobody’s business!

Keepers are a funny breed.

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DaveF

DaveF

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11 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

You have to question the recruitment of this guy really, seems like a complete waste of a wage for a few months

Not really... Cheap back up keeper to cover in case of an emergency, every club has one and he is certainly a lot cheaper than keeping Bentley.

I think you're looking for a problem that isn't there.

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

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On 20/03/2023 at 09:21, Davefevs said:

Yeah, I get the point.  And in some ways I am contradicting myself re young players.  Although I’m more in the camp that I’m happy to see the youngsters provide backfill rather than cheap appearances.  I’d be quite happy for OTC to sit on the bench over Andy King if we had James, Naismith plus Scott in midfield…if that makes sense.

Re Haikin, I guess I just want Max to keep improving, and gaining experience.

I read an interesting article the other day that suggested having two no1s is not a good idea…and that you want an out and out no1, feeling his place isn’t under challenge, Uber confident that he’s gonna play.  Not sure if I agree or not, just an interesting thought, because we all suggest we want two no1s.

In my long time watching City, it has been a rarity when we have had two number ones vying for the team selection.

The mid 1950's with Tony Cook and Bob Anderson. And mid to late 1970's with John Shaw and Ray Cashley.

Can anyone add to that? 

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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8 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

So which of our kids makes the bench against Reading then?

Wiles-Richards has been on the bench for the first team 7 times previously, so unless we have already made a decision not to extend his deal which expires this summer then it will surely be him.

As an aside I do wish we could keep the Cornick pile on to just one thread, it is becoming borderline obsessive now.

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Port Said Red

Port Said Red

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46 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Wiles-Richards has been on the bench for the first team 7 times previously, so unless we have already made a decision not to extend his deal which expires this summer then it will surely be him.

As an aside I do wish we could keep the Cornick pile on to just one thread, it is becoming borderline obsessive now.

Seems logical, (both points), I was trying to work out which of our keepers are out on loan to be honest, it's difficult to keep track. I noticed that the young team that played Cirencester last night had a goalkeeper that I had never heard of, and possibly one on the bench too. We seem to like to have several around the club.

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beaverface

beaverface

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1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

In my long time watching City, it has been a rarity when we have had two number ones vying for the team selection.

The mid 1950's with Tony Cook and Bob Anderson. And mid to late 1970's with John Shaw and Ray Cashley.

Can anyone add to that? 

Ronnie Sinclair and Andy Leaning?

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

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2 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

You have to question the recruitment of this guy really, seems like a complete waste of a wage for a few months

I'm not going to question it too much. Back up keeper signed on low wages and he's gone home. Fine. 1 out 3 signings in January has failed. I can live with a 33% failure rate.

O'Leary and Wiles-Richards can navigate us through the final 8 games of the season as we gently drift towards a mid-table finish. 

Bajic back in the summer and reassess.

GK is a position of minimal concern right now in my opinion.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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Port Said Red

Port Said Red

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2 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

You have to question the recruitment of this guy really, seems like a complete waste of a wage for a few months

 

2 hours ago, DaveF said:

Not really... Cheap back up keeper to cover in case of an emergency, every club has one and he is certainly a lot cheaper than keeping Bentley.

I think you're looking for a problem that isn't there.

I agree with Dave. From our point of view we got a good look at a player to see if he fitted our squad, he also was experienced back up on match days, which allowed us to send the younger keepers out on loans to gain experience.

From Haikins point of view, he basically got a paid working holiday, access to top training facilities and coaching, possibly on more money than he was being paid back in Bodø. The club there got him off their wage bill for a period and possibly have a fitter player coming back.

There doesn't seem to be much of a downside, unless it's that Haikin never got a chance to prove himself.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

Seems logical, (both points), I was trying to work out which of our keepers are out on loan to be honest, it's difficult to keep track. I noticed that the young team that played Cirencester last night had a goalkeeper that I had never heard of, and possibly one on the bench too. We seem to like to have several around the club.

Joe Duncan?

He’s been involved a few times on match day in the keeper warm-ups.  Usually if u21s have played on sane day as first team iirc

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Port Said Red

Port Said Red

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Just now, Davefevs said:

Joe Duncan?

He’s been involved a few times on match day in the keeper warm-ups.  Usually if u21s have played on sane day as first team iirc

Ah right, he was the one you mentioned the other day when asking about the warm-ups. I had forgotten that.

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Back to Haikin…he’s a perfectly decent keeper, his performances for Bodo in Europe prove he’s no mug.  But Max ousted Bentley (Bentley ousted himself???) and has deservedly claimed the no1 (12) jersey.  Max has done nothing to warrant losing his place, no Nik has had to resign himself to being on the bench.  Some are happy to be a no2, Nik appears to not be, and he’s sought an opportunity to rejoin his former team.

I honestly don’t think it’s really a reflection on his ability (crikey- our former no1, a perfectly decent keeper went upwards to the PL!!!), and it’s provided us with experienced cover whilst we attain enough points to not have to worry about Max getting injured and having to play Wiles-Richards in a potential relegation battle, whilst allowing Bajic to gain more first team experience.  So in a way you could say it has worked out.  But that’s my logic!

As for Wiles-Richards, I’m quite interested to see how he takes on being no2.  His contract is up in the summer.  He has ability, the big question marks will be application / mentality.  Maybe that’s Nige setting the challenge?  It’s a big opportunity.

I’ve no idea on Bajic next season.  I could see him being no2, but equally I could see him being moved on also.

Just throwing in some other stuff, but we went through 14/15 with Dave Richards as our no2 to Frankie.  He didn’t see any action, but I sat in the tin shack on the corner / in front of the away supporters in the Atyeo that season…by the practice net, and saw a young keeper grow significantly through exposure to being with the first team.  He was bloody awful at the start of the season, but much better by the end of it.  Not sure Cotts wouldn’t have delved into the emergency loan market had Frankie got injured, but he’s carved out a career in Lg1/2, closing in on 100 apps.  The season before we went through ‘em like nobody’s business!

Keepers are a funny breed.

 

Seems like a bit of back-justification to me.

We needed Haikin in case Max was injured in February or March, but we can get by perfectly well with Wiles-Richards - who was available then - if Max is injured in April?

I do not think a return to Norway within two months was what was intended when we signed Haikin.

I think with Haikin and also the Cornick situation, a lot of posters have adopted an "in Nige we trust" attitude. I guess I do a bit myself, but that doesn't mean in any project, whether you're building a house or building a sustainable club, there won't be missteps along the way. I'm sure Pearson had some at Leicester: it wasn't all unalloyed success. 

The cornerstone of his success with the Foxes would seem to be a very canny recruitment strategy and I'm not sure we have the personnel supporting NP to match that here. What he has helped and encouraged no end is the development of our academy and development of other young players at the club, and that's very pleasing to see. Maybe the Haikin move is part of a clever strategy to bring Wiles-Richards on. I doubt it, though. 

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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Last thing from me on Haikin.

I think this is a Pat Mountain decision, he’s our expert in this area & I simply don’t think we were impressed enough to offer Haikin a longer deal.

We therefore told him this & so he sorted out a return to his former club.

We didn’t feel comfortable trying to negotiate a third of the season with just one senior keeper in Max, but as we are pretty much safe now & I still think we could bring one in as an emergency loan, have simply brought the decision forward 2 months.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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14 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Seems like a bit of back-justification to me.

We needed Haikin in case Max was injured in February or March, but we can get by perfectly well with Wiles-Richards - who was available then - if Max is injured in April?

I do not think a return to Norway within two months was what was intended when we signed Haikin.

I think with Haikin and also the Cornick situation, a lot of posters have adopted an "in Nige we trust" attitude. I guess I do a bit myself, but that doesn't mean in any project, whether you're building a house or building a sustainable club, there won't be missteps along the way. I'm sure Pearson had some at Leicester: it wasn't all unalloyed success. 

The cornerstone of his success with the Foxes would seem to be a very canny recruitment strategy and I'm not sure we have the personnel supporting NP to match that here. What he has helped and encouraged no end is the development of our academy and development of other young players at the club, and that's very pleasing to see. Maybe the Haikin move is part of a clever strategy to bring Wiles-Richards on. I doubt it, though. 

Not really, just my view that he was brought in as “capable” keeper, but hasn’t been required to play.  I don’t think my view on him has changed since he was signed.  I have never advocated he should play just to give him a chance.  He enabled us to reduce our cost base as a short term option, with a carrot to earn a longer deal.  I guess you can argue the fact that being let go means he’s not good enough.  That’s certainly one view, quite possibly the right view.  There are other views too.  Bajic is seen as no2 next season, or we are looking at a totally new recruit, because neither are seen as longer-term solutions, and the new keeper wasn’t available in January.  Lots of angles on this one.  The only thing I’ve changed is to question (cynically) whether he used us as a bit of Summer Holiday pay.

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not really, just my view that he was brought in as “capable” keeper, but hasn’t been required to play.  I don’t think my view on him has changed since he was signed.  I have never advocated he should play just to give him a chance.  He enabled us to reduce our cost base as a short term option, with a carrot to earn a longer deal.  I guess you can argue the fact that being let go means he’s not good enough.  That’s certainly one view, quite possibly the right view.  There are other views too.  Bajic is seen as no2 next season, or we are looking at a totally new recruit, because neither are seen as longer-term solutions, and the new keeper wasn’t available in January.  Lots of angles on this one.  The only thing I’ve changed is to question (cynically) whether he used us as a bit of Summer Holiday pay.

 

I can't see how he reduced our cost base. If Wiles-Richards is good enough to deputise for Max - as he now apparently is - then we didn't really need to sign him at all.

I'm sure he wasn't on big bucks, but anything we've paid him over the past 2 months + has been a bit of a waste.

Still, it was a nice sign off message he wrote us. 

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Tinmans Love Child

Tinmans Love Child

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4 hours ago, DaveF said:

Not really... Cheap back up keeper to cover in case of an emergency, every club has one and he is certainly a lot cheaper than keeping Bentley.

I think you're looking for a problem that isn't there.

I think you maybe ignoring a problem that is there, in that we sign a keeper and he leaves after 2 months.

He's a keeper by trade so he knows the game in that you have to wait for your chance, and as we went through a good vain of form so he didn't get that chance, then 2 months later he's offski.  

For me that shows a lack of commitment from him to prove his worth and break into the side, a lack of belief that he could actually get a longer contract, and actually the club weren't bothered either which for me says all we need to know.

Those saying he benefitted from being here is all very well, and I'm sure he did, but we arnt a charity.  We signed 2 keepers this season, neither of which have worked out, and our other former captain Bentley has left.  In anyones book it seems that in terms of keepers we seem to have an issue with recruitment.

Dont get me wrong happy with Max he's done well, but he needs a strong number 2 to push him.

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HappyClapper

HappyClapper

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I don’t understand the issue here. Bentley went to wolves. We got in an experienced keeper as a back up as Max had forced his way into the team. Said keeper thought he could replace Max and earn a contract with us or put himself in the shop window. Max has played well and said keeper doesn’t feature. His plan hasn’t worked. He is given the option of first team football at his old club. We are in mid table obscurity so the need for an experienced number two is not as important as it seemed in January. We decide the move works for everyone under the current circumstances so both parties are happy to make it happen now.

 I really don’t think there’s any more to it.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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24 minutes ago, HappyClapper said:

I don’t understand the issue here. Bentley went to wolves. We got in an experienced keeper as a back up as Max had forced his way into the team. Said keeper thought he could replace Max and earn a contract with us or put himself in the shop window. Max has played well and said keeper doesn’t feature. His plan hasn’t worked. He is given the option of first team football at his old club. We are in mid table obscurity so the need for an experienced number two is not as important as it seemed in January. We decide the move works for everyone under the current circumstances so both parties are happy to make it happen now.

 I really don’t think there’s any more to it.

I’m with you.

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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58 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

I don't think there was any reports of it during the spell out but he did refer to being out injured when he returned to the U21s lineup: 

 

He went on loan to Hereford but only played once, then there was a bit of a fuss on here about him being on holiday In Dubai during the season.

This explains both issues.

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The Bard

The Bard

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4 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Last thing from me on Haikin.

I think this is a Pat Mountain decision, he’s our expert in this area & I simply don’t think we were impressed enough to offer Haikin a longer deal.

We therefore told him this & so he sorted out a return to his former club.

We didn’t feel comfortable trying to negotiate a third of the season with just one senior keeper in Max, but as we are pretty much safe now & I still think we could bring one in as an emergency loan, have simply brought the decision forward 2 months.

That would be how a rational well run club would deal with the scenario.

 

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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6 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

1 year extension for Wiles-Richards:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/new-deal-for-wiles-richards/

Interesting, that certainly sorts out the number 3 keeper position.

Really all about now whether Bajic comes back from his loan to be our back up keeper or wants to go back to France permanently, I think.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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14 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Probably also a case of should Max get injured and Harvey has to fill in should he have a few excellent performances then he's tied down for another year

Or we get an emergency loan?

Read an interesting rule the other day, that you can’t loan and emergency GK from PL to EFL.

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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10 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Bajic is the new Massengo. 

Quite possibly.

I suppose it must be pretty difficult to move abroad alone at 20 & to do so with an injury that means you don’t get the chance to play for a while & by then you’re down the pecking order, is rough.

I will be very interested to see how all this pans out, if he’s done ok at Valenciennes (I know he’s played in every game but no real idea beyond that) then maybe it will see him get a club in Ligue 1.

If he does come back then after a year with us it can only be to compete for a place in the match day 18, as we’re beyond settling in now.

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