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Hartleysbeard

By Hartleysbeard
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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted

FWIW I’d rather we didn’t sing any songs / chants about Rovers…they are an insignificance, currently, always?

I’d rather we sang / chanted about City and our players.

On twitter this week someone posted (might’ve been Bristol Post) about the Zak Vyner chant, and whether fans liked it.  For me, it’s shit (from a Bernie Taupin lyrics petesoectuve), but it’s easy, catchy, Zak Vyner likes it and importantly it builds noise and atmosphere.  Therefore it gets my vote, wholeheartedly.

We mocked LJ for his Matty Taylor - “he’s got a song” comment, but in some respects he was right.

Plus I’m sure Tommy Tynan doesn’t really suck a horse’s penis!

2 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

She’s a horse isn’t she?

At least that’s what I tell any kids I take to football ;) 

Kings of Leon - Insects Are On Fire…that’s what I told my two!

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
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4 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

I was generalising the young 'ultra' football fans, which I stand by, as a generalisation. I'm 28. I don’t know why you’d assume my age bracket is what I think is a decent IQ though.

 

 

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2015

2015

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

But we all view football differently, I can't understand getting smashed before the game even kicks off or doing a line at half time. For some it's about seeing their mates, for some it's an excuse to let off steam or be the version of themselves they can't be at home. Others want to watch their team, others want something to moan about, etc etc. Football is different for all of us. I just think when it comes to things like this there are plenty of options for those singing like this that doesn't involve missing out, whereas for those who feel uncomfortable the solution offered several times on the first page of this thread was "don't come then". Think that's backwards.

Yes definitely agreed on the whole getting smashed thing. I think that's a pretty toxic culture in itself. Yes you can as a young man go to the football without touching an alcoholic beverage and enjoy it still

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pillred

pillred

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Sir Colby-Tit said:

Bollocks to that, I'll still join in when it's sung. It's a football match, deal with it.

To me, it seems to be a case with the OP of do as I say now not do as I did, which comes across as a teeny bit hypocritical. 

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Jim Davey

Jim Davey

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Posted
3 hours ago, Hartleysbeard said:

I’m sure most don’t although some replies here suggest otherwise. But that’s not the point. Casual sexism (whether there’s intent or not) reinforces negative attitudes towards women. That’s why I don’t like it. 

Is it sexist if a women sings it?

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Hartleysbeard

Hartleysbeard

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26 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

If we were all held to the standards of our youth rather than adjusting and adapting then society would stand still and we'd still be chucking bananas at black players and kicking seven shades of shit out of each other in the open end. 

It is hypocritical, but everything is. Sometimes you learn from mistakes. 

Quite. 
although I contest that it’s not hypocritical to hold your former self to account and expect better of society today.

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redkev

redkev

Posted
Posted

I know it’s not right and I’m not condoning it but to me it’s just words , the people singing it don’t mean to hurt anyone just part of the learning process of growing up then realising when your older eek did I really say / sing that back then 
 

 

 

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pillred

pillred

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

If we were all held to the standards of our youth rather than adjusting and adapting then society would stand still and we'd still be chucking bananas at black players and kicking seven shades of shit out of each other in the open end. 

It is hypocritical, but everything is. Sometimes you learn from mistakes. 

Perhaps we have learned but when you are young you do things that with the benefit of hindsight you now regret. I was pointing out that the OP admitted he had sung songs he was not proud of now yet is condemning others who currently do it, but yes what you say is fundamentally correct and thank god the racist chanting and banana throwing have disappeared from games today.

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Nogbad the Bad

Nogbad the Bad

Posted
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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Plus I’m sure Tommy Tynan doesn’t really suck a horse’s penis!

 

That was Trevor Morgan's song, in the days when a big group had moved from the EE to form a new chanting section in the Enclosure.

He loved it, always responded with a big smile and a thumbs up.

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Nogbad the Bad

Nogbad the Bad

Posted
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8 hours ago, B1ackbird said:

Also the assurance that "your going home in a Red n White/Bristol ambulance" when in truth your more than likely going to hospital ..

Isn't true either.

An example of a chant already considerably toned down from the original.

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RedM

RedM

Posted
Posted

The (insert current Rovers Managers name) is a whore song has been sung for decades, its football banter.

To put it into context: Whilst he was here Richard Gould used to find it hilarious and pointed out serveral times to staff that when fans were singing that song about Bobby, they were actually referring to his Grandmother!

Now if he took it as banter as intended, who are we to judge?

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Artcliffe exile said:

Haven’t read the whole thread so apologies but why are we singing I can’t read etc and then calling ourselves wankkers

Completely agree. This is the one that just baffles me.

The original would be the perfect funny, self-deprecating song that turns opposing fans chants back on themselves. A bit like the Welsh ‘1-0 to the sheepshaggers’

But we use an alternative version that’s just unfunny, crude and offensive - and then sing it about ourselves. Weird. 

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Nogbad the Bad

Nogbad the Bad

Posted
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2 hours ago, italian dave said:

Well, Braverman’s colour doesn’t stop her being a racist bigot……..

I doubt I'm the only one visiting OTIB less and less due to posters putting overtly political comments on here, and thus often derailing a thread.

Please try and desist, this forum exists to discuss our love of BCFC and football in general and that's the only reason the vast majority of us come on here.

If I want to know posters' political views (I really don't) I'll go on the politics forum - please confine your political outbursts to the area especially created for them.

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shelts

shelts

Posted
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Imagine you’d been reported for swearing and you sit next to the singing section !

Are we saying the ref and his assistants are fair game as it’s only football?
when I first attended games in the early 80s regular racist chanting , which I joined in with , I was a kid but I still knew it was wrong . How about when an opposition player takes a corner in front of the singing section and they all drop the c bomb !

Off topic a bit . Sorry for that . Back in the nineties when we went all seated in the EE lots of the chants were quite funny , slightly naughty but not vile . The club send that message around the boards about reporting this stuff but they can’t do a whole stand !

Society has changed . This forum changed after lockdown 

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I doubt I'm the only one visiting OTIB less and less due to posters putting overtly political comments on here, and thus often derailing a thread.

Please try and desist, this forum exists to discuss our love of BCFC and football in general and that's the only reason the vast majority of us come on here.

If I want to know posters' political views (I really don't) I'll go on the politics forum - please confine your political outbursts to the area especially created for them.

Sorry if you were offended. Not intended.

To be honest, I didn't even think it was particularly "political". More philosophical.

And I was just responding directly to a specific question - and one you didn't seem to find offensive. 

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Betty Swallocks

Betty Swallocks

Posted
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6 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Sorry if you were offended. Not intended.

To be honest, I didn't even think it was particularly "political". More philosophical.

And I was just responding directly to a specific question - and one you didn't seem to find offensive. 

No one’s offended, it’s just really boring. 

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FabledRobin

FabledRobin

Posted
Posted
On 13/04/2023 at 11:40, Hartleysbeard said:

…(insert current Bristol Rovers manager name here) being a whore?  
 

This one gets wheeled out every week from the corner of the south stand and it’s an absolute embarrassment that has no place in football stadiums…or anywhere else in fact. It’s abhorrent. 
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy some of the more good humoured chants levelled at the opposition, but this goes too far for me. Have I sung inappropriate songs at football before? Yes. When I first started attending games as a teenager back in the early 90s I was influenced by what I heard around me and joined in. Do I regret that? Yes. But I was a product of what I was surrounded by…I didn’t know any better.

I now take my own son to watch City and whilst I accept there will be plenty of colourful language for him to hear, I make a point of talking loudly to him when chants like this are happening, in attempt to drown it out. I don’t want him to think it’s in any way acceptable to repeat that chant or think it’s ok to level that accusation, whether in jest or otherwise, at a woman. He is taught to respect women and he calls out misogynistic behaviour when he witnesses it. 
 

As a club with a successful women’s team and a large number of female supporters, isn’t it about time we stopped this chant? 

This is quite literally the reason the Family Stand exists 

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RedM

RedM

Posted
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2 hours ago, shelts said:

Imagine you’d been reported for swearing and you sit next to the singing section !

Are we saying the ref and his assistants are fair game as it’s only football?
when I first attended games in the early 80s regular racist chanting , which I joined in with , I was a kid but I still knew it was wrong . How about when an opposition player takes a corner in front of the singing section and they all drop the c bomb !

Off topic a bit . Sorry for that . Back in the nineties when we went all seated in the EE lots of the chants were quite funny , slightly naughty but not vile . The club send that message around the boards about reporting this stuff but they can’t do a whole stand !

Society has changed . This forum changed after lockdown 

I did feel sorry/sad when on Monday the 'Boro player, after being subbed off, and chose the shortest route off the pitch. He walked off towards the Dolman then got all kinds of abuse when he reached the South stand. No need of it, his game was done. He had made the correct call to exit at the shortest route and then got abused. No wonder most players chose to time waste and jog slowly across the pitch and take the long route.

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Street red

Street red

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

Those who sing long time ago also helped to knock up that mural in your avatar and do and done a lot more. 

They certainly did what a mural it was in the old east end without these so called morons as was quoted Ashton gate would definitely be your average local library.

Edited by Street red
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Cowshed

Cowshed

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

Why have you deleted the context of my post in order to make your point? 

 

I answered the part I felt was interesting.

3 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

You're correct,  

Thank you.

3 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

However, our fans and our culture is driven by politics. . 

No. Bristol City football fan culture is apolitical. Left and right support this club and that is what will be in the seats next to us, or in the coaches, vans and trains we travel to away games to. Our fandom doesn't care. Your little bubble, your little our may differ, mine does not. 

4 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

Or was the collective decision to no longer sing "I'd rather be a P*ki than a Taff" made because we got bored of the tune? 

 

I do not know. I recollect on my last trip to Luton some edgy chants as a response to locals poor knowledge of geography, Bristol is not a small town in Wales. So, politics? Nah. 

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Jimbo76

Jimbo76

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, FabledRobin said:

This is quite literally the reason the Family Stand exists 

I was in the Family Stand with my 7 year old for his first trip to AG for the Reading game  and one of his (many) questions to me that day was 'What's a whore?'.

Don't get me wrong, he'd already been told that he would hear lots of bad language, even in the Family Stand (and even then, the level and nature of that in the family stand surprised me), but it did seem a shame to me that he had to ask that question.

It will change as society does, i.e. slowly.

Edited by Jimbo76
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joe jordans teeth

joe jordans teeth

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38 minutes ago, Jimbo76 said:

I was in the Family Stand with my 7 year old for his first trip to AG for the Reading game  and one of his (many) questions to me that day was 'What's a whore?'.

Don't get me wrong, he'd already been told that he would hear lots of bad language, even in the Family Stand (and even then, the level and nature of that in the family stand surprised me), but it did seem a shame to me that he had to ask that question.

It will change as society does, i.e. slowly.

And did you explain to him what one is or just say I have no idea ask you teacher 

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PHILINFRANCE

PHILINFRANCE

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3 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

And did you explain to him what one is or just say I have no idea ask you teacher 

I probably chickened out, but when a very young female relative of mine asked me the same question (What’s a whore?) I suggested it was a girl who kissed lots of boys, sometimes on the same day.

She was suitably shocked, and I didn’t think it was fair or even appropriate/necessary to elaborate or tell the truth.

Interestingly, she is now the mother of three lovely children, and she has never raised the question with me since.

Perhaps I shall tell her the true definition if I am invited to her 16th birthday party.

I’m sorry, I just couldn’t resist.

The story is true, save the final paragraph, and she is now in her late 20s and in a very stable relationship.

 

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Marina's Rolls Royce

Marina's Rolls Royce

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17 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

"Get yer tits out for the lads," is gender politics mate.

"Get yer face out for the lads" is racist politics representing a somewhat ironic comment on modern Britain.

Is it wrong of me to find this type of football humour really funny? I'm no longer sure what I'm allowed to think.

My son spent his early years at BS3 thinking that the crowd thought the referee was a Whacker. He now knows different.

Perhaps it would be better to suggest in song form that far from anyone doing "it" for money that ,in fact, they do it for free.

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italian dave

italian dave

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36 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

"Get yer face out for the lads" is racist politics representing a somewhat ironic comment on modern Britain.

Is it wrong of me to find this type of football humour really funny? I'm no longer sure what I'm allowed to think.

My son spent his early years at BS3 thinking that the crowd thought the referee was a Whacker. He now knows different.

Perhaps it would be better to suggest in song form that far from anyone doing "it" for money that ,in fact, they do it for free.

I think the problem is that it’s not binary: it’s far more nuanced than that. It depends often on context and on intent.

Lots of things that are funny the first time cease to be funny when they’re sung/said for the umpteenth time. Things are often funny precisely because they are close to the edge. But when they’re repeated endlessly and/or in a different context they no longer have that spontaneity, by definition they’re no longer ‘edgy’, and they’re usually being repeated because there’s an intent behind them which is the wrong side of that edge.

’Get your tits out…..’ probably was funny the first time, and there’s still occasionally a context where it’s funny (a couple of years ago City fans started singing it at an away game, directed at a very large male home fan with very obvious man boobs). But when it’s just sung at any randomly passing female steward etc then it’s not funny and it’s misogynist. 

So, it’s not so much about what you’re ‘allowed’ to think. More about thinking about the intent and the consequence and making your own judgement. 

Just my view, anyway. 

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HappyClapper

HappyClapper

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40 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

 

My son spent his early years at BS3 thinking that the crowd thought the referee was a Whacker. He now knows different.

 

I was at a Wimbledon match in the early 90’s when then crowd were chanting the referee’s a w*****. As the chant dissipated a boy about 8 or 9 years old continued on his own at full volume… “The referee’s a waiter”. His dad wasn’t sure whether he was pleased or embarrassed.

 

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Dollymarie

Dollymarie

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Posted

You just start the conversation with any child asking what the words mean with “well firstly the song is meant as a joke. . .”

People are a bit sensitive when it comes to bad language, just give them the heads up that they’re going to hear rude words at football, and they can use those words at football, but not elsewhere. 

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MarcusX

MarcusX

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Posted
On 13/04/2023 at 14:52, Robbored said:

In terms of chants/songs nothing much changes and football matches per se.  50+ years ago we all sang and chanted an array of different content.

I remember when Story-Moore played against us and the song aimed at him included the word whore and ‘get on yer bike and ride away”

The idea was to try offend the player or the away fans and it’s still the same these days - just a lot quieter than it used to be.

Not sure what relevance that has to a chant about the manager of a team we’ve not played in almost a decade

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Hartleysbeard

Hartleysbeard

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On 16/04/2023 at 00:48, joe jordans teeth said:

This may seem like a weird idea but how about people who decided to bring children into this world actually teach them right from wrong and not tell people who they have never met what to do or sing,I know it’s mind blowing stuff and unimaginable 

I don’t think these things need to be mutually exclusive. Surely as part of educating one’s own child as to what is right and what is wrong, calling out discriminatory or abusive chanting is a positive example to set them? 

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Mendip Broadwalk

Mendip Broadwalk

Posted
Posted
On 14/04/2023 at 19:02, Percy Pig said:

OK Shed, whatever you say. I only wrote a dissertation on the reflective nature of fan culture and societal values. 3 years of reading, interviews and statistical analysis was wasted, should have just come to you. 

You're also confusing what I'm saying, I've made no reference to political allegiance or party politics. Only person who has othered anyone here is you with your "little" jibes. 

There is a relationship, defined and measurable, between what is deemed politically acceptable discourse and the behaviour, actions and culture of football fans. As one changes, so too does the other. It's not always "progressive" changes. Sometimes it's regressive. There's a fairly direct link between the racially incendiary songs you reference at Luton and far right leaders like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon of course. 

This isn't a particularly nuanced point, but it's been interesting to dust off the cobwebs of a decade old paper. So thanks for that. 

You didn't answer @Cowshed question. Is flag day political? I mentioned the EE mural was that political? Links to Wilem II? The songs about cider and the Wurzels? How is Bristol City fan culture political?

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Mendip Broadwalk

Mendip Broadwalk

Posted
Posted
On 14/04/2023 at 15:49, Street red said:

They certainly did what a mural it was in the old east end without these so called morons as was quoted Ashton gate would definitely be your average local library.

Some of the same crew started flag day, the Weston all dayer, the Willem II fan link, songs we sing now. 100%. The legacy is still there and some of them are still about. Read the thread and i think i would ask what big ideas do they have? The anti Rovers thing is football panto, part of it. 

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Mendip Broadwalk

Mendip Broadwalk

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

I didn't specify our fan culture once. I was talking about the british/English fan culture generally. Again, that really wasn't that complicated a point... 

You said our fans and our culture is driven by politics. Maybe yours is but my our isnt. Politics isnt part of it.

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