Steve Lansdown interview Today

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, tin said:

That’s what I thought, too. I thought it was pretty arrogant of him to absolve himself and his cronies for getting us up shit creek in the first place. 

He is arrogant though, isn’t he. Steve and the family come across as decent people, i certainly wouldn’t for one minute think their has been any malice in SL’s poor footballing decisions but it doesn’t excuse them and the damage they have done to the football club over the years.

He does though time after time fail to see that he is at fault for any of it though i feel, and that’s why i think you get this underlying arrogant attitude from him in interviews. ‘Its my club, i’ll do as i please’ remember was trotted out from Steve in an interview not so long ago, i lost a lot of respect from him after he said that to be honest.

As i said he isn’t a bad bloke and credit to him, we are certainly a better club off the field from where we were when we took over. He is fairly clueless when it comes to the footballing side of things though which is a shame as that will tarnish his legacy when he finally sells up.

 

[Bristol Rob]

4 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Which Hollywood duo would we like?

Butch and Sundance.

[Lanterne Rouge]

8 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Butch and Sundance.

Jake and Elwood

[Glen hump]

9 hours ago, tin said:

That’s what I thought, too. I thought it was pretty arrogant of him to absolve himself and his cronies for getting us up shit creek in the first place. 

Sl doesn’t like criticism, very appreciative for all he’s done for the club but he’s made some pretty big mistakes along the way and it’s obvious he doesn’t understand football even after all these years, banging on about league positions and Coventry and Luton doing well doesn’t sit well with me , does he not understand the absolute mess we were in when Pearson came in , he should be taking full responsibility for that, it’s great he’s covering loses every year but we’re losing millions because of his incompetence .

[Oh Louie louie]

Turner and hooch, on the basis Robbie turner liked a pint

[Oh Louie louie]

Steve forget calling yourself white knight, Teflon Don sits better with me

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, tin said:

That’s what I thought, too. I thought it was pretty arrogant of him to absolve himself and his cronies for getting us up shit creek in the first place. 

It's a big flaw, not being able to wear your own f@ck up......a real weakness - people would admire/warm to him if he held his hands up.

As it is the bloke leaves me stone cold.

[Oh Louie louie]

Yep I quite agree Fred, and when Geoff called him out, we all saw well its my ball and I'll take it home interview a few year's ago

[Guest]

12 hours ago, BCFC11 said:

Well perhaps he shouldn’t of employed and let MA to oversee everything then, we are only just beginning to see the end of MA era and imo things are looking a lot rosier now than 1-2 years ago.

Time will tell if "MA`s Ipswich" join the line of clubs that seem to pass us by; things will look rosier when we can keep our best players/prospects and stop consistantly sleeping and giving games away.

Edited April 30, 2023 by gl2

[robin_unreliant]

The single most important reason for our failure to progress has been poor player recruitment. At the end of the day it is all about having good enough players on the pitch. I'm still not sure if putting Tinnion in charge of it will prove to be the answer.

We have wasted so much money on players that have not improved the team. I'm not sure how much SL has been directly involved in that over the years but he certainly is responsible for deciding who chooses the players.

[Red Exile]

Just listened to the interview. I'm a bit of a Lansdown sceptic and at times he talks it's as though he hasn't been the one making all the big decisions for the past couple of decades...I guess that's how he lives with some of his howlers! But he came across as having an enduring passion for the club, more so than he's sometimes expressed in the past, spoke well about the future and investment...and he spoke better of Nigel Pearson than I'd imagined from comments on here. Pearson is precisely the type of football character he's needed alongside him all along. Good if he's finally recognising that, and can embrace it. In that lies hope for the future.

 

 

[One Team]

11 hours ago, Dredd said:

Which is nonsense. We already know our financial position was based on unsustainable player sales, at which point we had Fam and Eliasson who were probably the only two worth even a reasonable amount of money, which might have looked good on paper but didn't address a massive squad, full of underperforming players on big wages. The pandemic if anything hastened the position we found ourselves in by maybe 12 months but the damage was already done. 
I'm eternally grateful to Steve for all he's done for the club over the years but I feel like he's backed the wrong horse many times. He should be thanking NP for clearing up the mess, sorting out the squad and keeping us in the division while doing so.
Let's not also forget that if a certain Mr Johnson was still here then Scott and Conway would probably be on their 3rd loan spell each and nowhere near the first team. Nige blooding these players and us being in a position to sell them will allow the club to build and not stagnate. I hope. 

Great post.

Just listened to the interview, it’s always good to hear from him but his comments came across as pretty arrogant today with little in the way of self awareness; at least that which he’d share on local radio. The issues he talked about were entirely of his making with numerous poor decisions. 

Clearly, he’s been good overall and we’re all grateful for the stadium, HPC and academy, but the failures are his as much as the successes. 

It’s also pretty clear there will be no Lansdown dynasty; he’s selling up if he can. 

I also noted when asked of his favourite memories he reeled off the ones we all would, but didn’t mention the double/title winning season at all. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by One Team

[Frenchay Red]

15 minutes ago, One Team said:

 

I also noted when asked of his favourite memories he reeled off the ones we all would, but didn’t mention the double/title winning season at all. 

I noticed that and thought it was pretty poor of him. He seemed to take great delight in the celebrations at the time at achieving the double, in what was a fantastic season.

[spudski]

11 hours ago, Nugget said:

Skip a bit at the start

Thanks for that. Just listened to it after reading the posts on here. So glad I did. It's worth listening to, to get a more balanced view. Some of the posts on this thread are very misleading. 

[Red Exile]

20 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

I noticed that and thought it was pretty poor of him. He seemed to take great delight in the celebrations at the time at achieving the double, in what was a fantastic season.

In fairness to him - and I'm not always the fairest - he'd been led down that particular memory lane by Geoff. But I think it does say something about what he sees as the glory years of his time at City - the GJ era. Objectively getting to the Championship play-offs with GJs side was more of an achievement that that double, but I think more importantly it tells us that part of what SL enjoyed was the personal glory - GJ was SL's man - the credit was all SL's - which it certainly wasn't under Cotts. We live with the consequences of decisions made in the months after that 2015 success - the reckless discarding of something that had real promise.

[Nogbad the Bad]

18 hours ago, bexhill reds said:

Non committal on a new contract for Nige, it’s clear they’ve had different opinions, but is pleased with the way the club has built both on and off the pitch. Next year aiming at top of the table, top 6 if possible. 

SL should be a bit more humble and realise that when he and Nige have a difference of opinion then Nige is almost certainly right every time.

NP is the most fortuitous managerial appointment SL has made and he should be damn grateful for the job he's done to stabilise the club from the complete mess he inherited, that mess being largely thanks to some terrible decisions from SL.

Nige has more than earnt a new contract. imo. He's earnt more praise, respect and trust than SL seems willing to give him - publicly at least.

Don't play silly games, offer NP that contract now.

 

 

[GrahamC]

59 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Just listened to the interview. I'm a bit of a Lansdown sceptic and at times he talks it's as though he hasn't been the one making all the big decisions for the past couple of decades...I guess that's how he lives with some of his howlers! But he came across as having an enduring passion for the club, more so than he's sometimes expressed in the past, spoke well about the future and investment...and he spoke better of Nigel Pearson than I'd imagined from comments on here. Pearson is precisely the type of football character he's needed alongside him all along. Good if he's finally recognising that, and can embrace it. In that lies hope for the future.

 

 

I haven’t done so yet but despite him being clearly selective about certain decisions (MA especially, LJ to an extent) do you think it is possibly that as you approach your latter years you do become more reflective?

[Kid in the Riot]

16 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

In fairness to him - and I'm not always the fairest - he'd been led down that particular memory lane by Geoff. But I think it does say something about what he sees as the glory years of his time at City - the GJ era. Objectively getting to the Championship play-offs with GJs side was more of an achievement that that double, but I think more importantly it tells us that part of what SL enjoyed was the personal glory - GJ was SL's man - the credit was all SL's - which it certainly wasn't under Cotts. We live with the consequences of decisions made in the months after that 2015 success - the reckless discarding of something that had real promise.

I think the GJ era was probably the peak of SL's "access" to the footballing side too.

Note he said, "before the Palace away game I spoke to 'David' and said 'you'll score today'". 

He said it almost like a manager recollecting a big game would've. 

They'll be none of that going on under NP. 

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

I haven’t done so yet but despite him being clearly selective about certain decisions (MA especially, LJ to an extent) do you think it is possibly that as you approach your latter years you do become more reflective?

I think the fact that he was being interviewed by Geoff on a day when one of the big themes of the programme was that Geoff's time at Radio Bristol was ending made both of them reflective. The end of an era. I got the impression that SL appreciates his time is almost up as the sole owner of Bristol City. The bulk of it has certainly now passed. Time is against him to get to 'the promised land' - as he puts it. He must surely reflect that for all his investment he's blown his chance more than once. 

[One Team]

30 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think the GJ era was probably the peak of SL's "access" to the footballing side too.

Note he said, "before the Palace away game I spoke to 'David' and said 'you'll score today'". 

He said it almost like a manager recollecting a big game would've. 

They'll be none of that going on under NP. 

Good points and that was a bit Mark Ashton that part of the interview. He clearly had a lot of influence with the Johnson’s but had none of that with SC and is no doubt the same with NP.

[NickJ]

20 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I was surprised but happy to hear him say he doesn't see eye to eye with Nigel on everything. Think that's a good thing.

I was interested, and again happy, to hear him point out how well Luton, Millwall and Coventry are doing compared to us.

Gave a shout out to his mate Mark Robins "doing a brilliant job at Coventry". 

Contract talks with Nige have not begun. 

Scott price is £25m but could be higher if there's a bidding war. Doesn't know if Scott will go though, clearly hopes he'll stay. 

Thanked Geoff at end of interview.

Was very encouraged to hear that. The vast majority on here seem to think Scott leaving in the summer is inevitable and salivating over the thought that little Bristol City will be selling a player for £25M.

Scott's got 2 years left on his contract, we don't have to sell, certainly not this summer. He will still be woth £25M in 2024. As Steve said, there are a group of young lads here, they're mates and having fun, why not stay and achieve something together. They could all be playing in the Premiership in 2024, with Bristol City.

We have a situation here where Pearson is entering the final year of his current contract, has done a remarkable job of recognizing the talent of a crop of youngsters. Keep them all together, manager and the squad, for at least one more season, and see what happens.

 

 

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

The single most important reason for our failure to progress has been poor player recruitment. At the end of the day it is all about having good enough players on the pitch. I'm still not sure if putting Tinnion in charge of it will prove to be the answer.

We have wasted so much money on players that have not improved the team. I'm not sure how much SL has been directly involved in that over the years but he certainly is responsible for deciding who chooses the players.

Thank you, excellent concise post expressing my own concerns - and coming sharply into focus with considerable likely funds on the horizon.

This summer window will be very much pivotal for us...it's vital we get it right, as with Nigel at the helm opportunity could indeed come knocking.

[Jerseybean]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steve-lansdown-bristol-city-sale-8399439?utm_source=bristol_live_newsletter&utm_campaign=bcfc_newsletter2&utm_medium=email

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Was very encouraged to hear that. The vast majority on here seem to think Scott leaving in the summer is inevitable and salivating over the thought that little Bristol City will be selling a player for £25M.

Scott's got 2 years left on his contract, we don't have to sell, certainly not this summer. He will still be woth £25M in 2024. As Steve said, there are a group of young lads here, they're mates and having fun, why not stay and achieve something together. They could all be playing in the Premiership in 2024, with Bristol City.

We have a situation here where Pearson is entering the final year of his current contract, has done a remarkable job of recognizing the talent of a crop of youngsters. Keep them all together, manager and the squad, for at least one more season, and see what happens.

 

 

The only problem there is, I actually agree pretty much with what you have written, if we don't go up how much would Scott's value fall by next summer? He's happy here, enjoying it as SL said, having fun- and I believe one more year here with the stability of the environment would serve him well.

[ciderwithtommy]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The only problem there is, I actually agree pretty much with what you have written, if we don't go up how much would Scott's value fall by next summer? He's happy here, enjoying it as SL said, having fun- and I believe one more year here with the stability of the environment would serve him well.

Playing devils advocate - how much would Scott be worth in 12 months if the footballing gods gave him an “atkinson/benarous” situation? What would that mean for his financial life after football? I would love to keep him, but the only way it makes sense is a sale/loan back, which “could” play out depending on the purchasing club and their vision. Ultimately the pull of the prem, and what would a 25m player get paid a week for that? It’s life changing. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

Playing devils advocate - how much would Scott be worth in 12 months if the footballing gods gave him an “atkinson/benarous” situation? What would that mean for his financial life after football? I would love to keep him, but the only way it makes sense is a sale/loan back, which “could” play out depending on the purchasing club and their vision. Ultimately the pull of the prem, and what would a 25m player get paid a week for that? It’s life changing. 

That's true too of course. Heart v head, injury risk another big factor. Sale for the appropriate fee then try to sell/pitch the idea of one more year developing in an environment he knows and is happy in or try and pitch it as part of the initial deal.

[Red-Robbo]

20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's true too of course. Heart v head, injury risk another big factor. Sale for the appropriate fee then try to sell/pitch the idea of one more year developing in an environment he knows and is happy in or try and pitch it as part of the initial deal.

 

I'd eat my invisible hat if that happened. 

[Kid in the Riot]

14 hours ago, Dredd said:

Let's not also forget that if a certain Mr Johnson was still here then Scott and Conway would probably be on their 3rd loan spell each and nowhere near the first team. 

Problem with this theory has always been that LJ couldn't wait to get Kelly in the first team, playing him out of position to shoehorn him in, in fact. Persisted with Bobby when pretty much every City fan had concluded he wasn't good enough.

Then there is the absence of academy graduates at that time, who despite LJ apparently overlooking them, went on to succeed in football despite him - who are they and where are they? 

I personally think it's more a case that 3-5 years on we have a better crop of academy talent, blended with some really smart young signings like Antoine and Scott, which can be credited to Tinnion. 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

Was very encouraged to hear that. The vast majority on here seem to think Scott leaving in the summer is inevitable and salivating over the thought that little Bristol City will be selling a player for £25M.

Scott's got 2 years left on his contract, we don't have to sell, certainly not this summer. He will still be woth £25M in 2024. As Steve said, there are a group of young lads here, they're mates and having fun, why not stay and achieve something together. They could all be playing in the Premiership in 2024, with Bristol City.

We have a situation here where Pearson is entering the final year of his current contract, has done a remarkable job of recognizing the talent of a crop of youngsters. Keep them all together, manager and the squad, for at least one more season, and see what happens.

 

 

Or you cash in and get proper competition for O’Leary, a dominant centre half, a Centre Mid that gives you 40 games per season etc. We do need a quality upgrade and without selling Scott where does the money come from?

[The Swan and Cemetery]

16 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I'd eat my invisible hat if that happened. 

Think the only way it happens is as part of the deal and therefore a significantly lower fee for us, clearly no way a Prem club are going to let us have him back just for being nice chaps. We would need to decide the value of Alex for another season vs what we could do with the extra money. Whilst think it’s unlikely, need to keep in mind that he’s contracted and so we do have some agency/control over the deal and how it’s constructed, needs three parties to be comfortable with it, not just two (insert weak joke re bank holiday weekend hedonism). 

By the way, not sure if you think it will or won’t happen, given you’ve set yourself a reasonably straightforward challenge if it does…?!?

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think the GJ era was probably the peak of SL's "access" to the footballing side too.

Note he said, "before the Palace away game I spoke to 'David' and said 'you'll score today'". 

He said it almost like a manager recollecting a big game would've. 

They'll be none of that going on under NP. 

I find it cringe when people say that. Same as Wael saying he told coaches to focus on ‘certain players’ at Rovers academy as he knew they’d be good. 
 

Broadly, it’s a load of shite as it makes them look like they know their stuff. What about all the other things you’ve said that turned out to be wrong/didn’t happen ey Stevie boy??

Found the interview a bit odd and confused tbh. Want investment, could be a lot, could be a little, could also sell the entire club. Well, which one do you want? or do you just want ‘something’ to happen…
 

Thinks we should be doing better on the pitch, thinks we should be top 6 next season. Based on what? You also said we should’ve been in the play offs in 17-18, 18-19 and also promoted in 19-20, also based on what? Or are you just saying it as it’s higher than where we are atm and that’s basically it?

[Bris Red]

33 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Problem with this theory has always been that LJ couldn't wait to get Kelly in the first team, playing him out of position to shoehorn him in, in fact. Persisted with Bobby when pretty much every City fan had concluded he wasn't good enough.

Then there is the absence of academy graduates at that time, who despite LJ apparently overlooking them, went on to succeed in football despite him - who are they and where are they? 

I personally think it's more a case that 3-5 years on we have a better crop of academy talent, blended with some really smart young signings like Antoine and Scott, which can be credited to Tinnion. 

Agreed. I think LJ gave the younger players that were  ‘good’ enough at the time the opportunity, the current academy crop we have coming through right now is arguably the best we have ever seen at the football club. 

As you said add to that the unbelievable find in Alex Scott and the same in Antoine and Pearson has in many ways been quite fortunate with the young players he has had at his disposal since he was appointed in 2021.

Also worth noting that Pearson as of yet hasn’t had anywhere near the available funds that LJ had. In reality if Pearson hadn’t of had his hands tied financially like he has the last 3 or 4 transfer windows and had the war chest that LJ had over his tenure would players like Bell, Conway etc been given the amount of game time? 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Bris Red

[petehinton]

33 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Problem with this theory has always been that LJ couldn't wait to get Kelly in the first team, playing him out of position to shoehorn him in, in fact. Persisted with Bobby when pretty much every City fan had concluded he wasn't good enough.

Then there is the absence of academy graduates at that time, who despite LJ apparently overlooking them, went on to succeed in football despite him - who are they and where are they? 

I personally think it's more a case that 3-5 years on we have a better crop of academy talent, blended with some really smart young signings like Antoine and Scott, which can be credited to Tinnion. 

Counter argument to that, did we even need to sign Kalas on loan when Kelly was good enough to be CB at that time, and was consistently excellent tbere for England? Wouldn’t have needed to be out of position if they hadn’t got Kalas in..

Also the MO’L and Marinovic debacle. 

IMO Bell, Conway and Benarous are nowhere to be seen in the line up under LJ. Even Antoine was also rushed in then quickly not used thereafter. Taylor-Clarke and the others who’ve also had minutes and even starts, not a chance in hell.

Of course a bit of grey when comparing the current usage now under NP & what I was under LJ, but I Think he used it as box ticking exercises, when we really needed results or were in tense situations the young’uns were typically the first ones to be Shanghai’d. Very opposite now. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by petehinton

[Bris Red]

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

Counter argument to that, did we even need to sign Kalas on loan when Kelly was good enough to be CB at that time, and was consistently excellent tbere for England? Wouldn’t have needed to be out of position if they hadn’t got Kalas in..

Also the MO’L and Marinovic debacle. 
 

IMO Bell, Conway and Benarous are nowhere to be seen in the line up under LJ. Even Antoine was also rushed in then quickly not used thereafter.
 

Of course a bit of grey when comparing the current usage now under NP & what I was under LJ, but I Think he used it as box ticking exercises, when we really needed results or were in tense situations the young’uns were typically the first ones to be Shanghai’d. Very opposite now. 

Do you not think though that had Pearson walked into the club and it was on the same financial footing as we were in the summer of 2019 say that he would still of been giving Bell , Conway Benarous etc as much game time?

Im certainly not knocking Pearson for developing the younger players but i just feel at times he has been left with little choice because of our dire financial situation over the past 24 months or so.

 

[petehinton]

8 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Do you not think though that had Pearson walked into the club and it was on the same financial footing as we were in the summer of 2019 say that he would still of been giving Bell , Conway Benarous etc as much game time?

Im certainly not knocking Pearson for developing the younger players but i just feel at times he has been left with little choice because of our dire financial situation over the past 24 months or so.

 

I’d hope not, as they would’ve been 16 years old odd I think yes. Don’t get me wrong, obviously the HPC set up will have helped that, and it helps that they’re definitely good enough, but he still could’ve easily padded up with cheap one year deals for old free agents if he wanted to. 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Do you not think though that had Pearson walked into the club and it was on the same financial footing as we were in the summer of 2019 say that he would still of been giving Bell , Conway Benarous etc as much game time?

Im certainly not knocking Pearson for developing the younger players but i just feel at times he has been left with little choice because of our dire financial situation over the past 24 months or so.

 

Yeah, don’t think they would all have got minutes, nor the volume of minutes…but I do feel that Nige wouldn’t have created bloat and been happy to have the kids as cover.

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Thank you, excellent concise post expressing my own concerns - and coming sharply into focus with considerable likely funds on the horizon.

This summer window will be very much pivotal for us...it's vital we get it right, as with Nigel at the helm opportunity could indeed come knocking.

I actually don’t think we’ll have considerable transfer funds, even if Scott goes. My guess is a maximum of 5 in & a small percentage of the money we would receive.

What we will have though is greater sums than so far under Pearson, where it is worth pointing out his total expenditure on fees is around what LJ spent on Kasey Palmer alone.

I’m no FFP expert but also believe that the Semenyo sale was partially because we were so close to breaching it that we couldn’t take the risk.

Whether by necessity or design our recruitment under him has been far more efficient, Sykes for nothing, Tanner £300k & the one big money signing prior to January (Atkinson) looks far shrewder than many we spent similar on previously.

Those that haven’t worked out, Simpson obviously, Wilson arguably certainly don’t come into the Engvall, Adelakun category.

[Red-Robbo]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I actually don’t think we’ll have considerable transfer funds, even if Scott goes. My guess is a maximum of 5 in & a small percentage of the money we would receive.

What we will have though is greater sums than so far under Pearson, where it is worth pointing out his total expenditure on fees is around what LJ spent on Kasey Palmer alone.

I’m no FFP expert but also believe that the Semenyo sale was partially because we were so close to breaching it that we couldn’t take the risk.

Whether by necessity or design our recruitment under him has been far more efficient, Sykes for nothing, Tanner £300k & the one big money signing prior to January (Atkinson) looks far shrewder than many we spent similar on previously.

Those that haven’t worked out, Simpson obviously, Wilson arguably certainly don’t come into the Engvall, Adelakun category.

 

Well put points. I kind of think it likely we might see the departure of some of the bigger earners as well, allowing us reductions in week-on-week running losses next season, although like every league club, we aren't going to make any money!

If I was forced with my arm behind my back to offer a weak defence to some of the Johnson era excess spending, I'd say that there was more money sloshing around the second tier back then. There's a post-Covid, recession-driven reality check occurring at most clubs at this level and economies are having to be made pretty much all over. 

One of Pearson's great plus points has been how he's been able to manage on less without sinking below the waves. 

 

[italian dave]

42 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Counter argument to that, did we even need to sign Kalas on loan when Kelly was good enough to be CB at that time, and was consistently excellent tbere for England? Wouldn’t have needed to be out of position if they hadn’t got Kalas in..

Also the MO’L and Marinovic debacle. 

IMO Bell, Conway and Benarous are nowhere to be seen in the line up under LJ. Even Antoine was also rushed in then quickly not used thereafter. Taylor-Clarke and the others who’ve also had minutes and even starts, not a chance in hell.

Of course a bit of grey when comparing the current usage now under NP & what I was under LJ, but I Think he used it as box ticking exercises, when we really needed results or were in tense situations the young’uns were typically the first ones to be Shanghai’d. Very opposite now. 

Agree with you about Kalas/Kelly - but wasn’t that what Ashton was all about - the bottom line.

On Bell, Conway, Belarous: appreciate that LJ is fair game as the whipping boy for most things, but I think it’s taking it a bit far to criticise him for the presumed failure to select players who simply weren’t available at the time. We’ve no way of knowing that at all. 

And, has has been pointed out, he had very different challenges anyway. One of which is that for the last 2-3 years of his tenure the expectation was that we were too 6 material. And much as I recognise the prospect that Bell and Benarous are, they’re not too 6 Championship standard yet. Conway, maybe. 

The @ciderwithtommy and @Mr Popodopolous discussion is an interesting one. I’m first in line to blame Ashton for everything and anything, but one thing you have to say is that he was better than we’d ever been before at extracting maximum financial value from our player assets. So often in the past we’d failed to take big bids for players who then ran down contracts, for injured etc etc and in the meantime we’d not achieved success by keeping them. And that’s the dilemma with Scott, isn’t it? My heart says he stays with us and we reach the PL with him. My head says we’re not close enough.

The Ashton problem is that there was no dilemma for him: for him it was purely the bottom line, and if it cost us success on the field that was secondary - and not his problem. 

[Cidre Monita]

Why are we wasting energy still talking about the past, when finally we have a club looking to the future, clear of the nonsense, with a clear philosophy and strategy? At last. The club is finally preparing itself to go to a higher level and the foundations are now in place that will serve us well for many years to come. As long as we stick to the plan. 

Meliora

 

[Port Said Red]

I would imagine that Steve's devastated reading this thread, built a huge thriving business up from his back room, bought a football club and other sporting enterprises, invested millions in state of the art venues, and has great plans for the next step, but some randomers on an internet forum have pointed out what a mess he has made of his life, if only he has listened to them..... 

[tin]

5 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

The single most important reason for our failure to progress has been poor player recruitment. At the end of the day it is all about having good enough players on the pitch. I'm still not sure if putting Tinnion in charge of it will prove to be the answer.

We have wasted so much money on players that have not improved the team. I'm not sure how much SL has been directly involved in that over the years but he certainly is responsible for deciding who chooses the players.

Whose decision was it to hand Ashton the reins when we’d just had a double-winning season? Who refused to sanction deals for Maguire and Gayle at that time? Who signed off all those cheques during the scattergun years of LJ and Ashton?

Poor player recruitment starts at the very top. As he’s keen to remind us all, he makes the decisions so why he can’t take responsibility for them is beyond me.

[chinapig]

18 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I would imagine that Steve's devastated reading this thread, built a huge thriving business up from his back room, bought a football club and other sporting enterprises, invested millions in state of the art venues, and has great plans for the next step, but some randomers on an internet forum have pointed out what a mess he has made of his life, if only he has listened to them..... 

Really? Made a mess of his life? Since nobody has said any such thing this is a straw man argument.

By all means make a case that he has not made too many poor football decisions if you can but don't distort what other posters have said in doing so.

[Numero Uno]

24 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I would imagine that Steve's devastated reading this thread, built a huge thriving business up from his back room, bought a football club and other sporting enterprises, invested millions in state of the art venues, and has great plans for the next step, but some randomers on an internet forum have pointed out what a mess he has made of his life, if only he has listened to them..... 

No different when people criticise Nige is it? Played at the top level, managed at the top level. Nice bank balance I suspect. Do you think he gives a shit when people question his tactics, subs and signings? 50 years in the game, if only he had listened to them……….

I’m not sure people think Steve has ****** up his life but aren’t people entitled to an opinion on the way he has owned the football club?

[Numero Uno]

11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Really? Made a mess of his life? Since nobody has said any such thing this is a straw man argument.

By all means make a case that he has not made too many poor football decisions if you can but don't distort what other posters have said in doing so.

Smacks of you can have an opinion on the Manager but not the Owner.

[Port Said Red]

27 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Really? Made a mess of his life? Since nobody has said any such thing this is a straw man argument.

By all means make a case that he has not made too many poor football decisions if you can but don't distort what other posters have said in doing so.

That's how I read it when I see so many comments on all the things he has done "wrong" without balancing it out with the positives. 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, Psychopomp said:

Why are we wasting energy still talking about the past, when finally we have a club looking to the future, clear of the nonsense, with a clear philosophy and strategy? At last. The club is finally preparing itself to go to a higher level and the foundations are now in place that will serve us well for many years to come. As long as we stick to the plan. 

Meliora

 

We continue to talk about it for the reason highlighted. 

We've seen this script before...

[Merrick's Marvels]

7 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

It's a big flaw, not being able to wear your own f@ck up......a real weakness - people would admire/warm to him if he held his hands up.

That's billionaires for you!

[Glen hump]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I would imagine that Steve's devastated reading this thread, built a huge thriving business up from his back room, bought a football club and other sporting enterprises, invested millions in state of the art venues, and has great plans for the next step, but some randomers on an internet forum have pointed out what a mess he has made of his life, if only he has listened to them..... 

Being a very good accountant, business man is very different too knowing football ‘ there’s no way on this earth he’s a football man, he should of brought in a director of football years ago.

[Cidre Monita]

9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We continue to talk about it for the reason highlighted. 

We've seen this script before...

Indeed. That was mentioned for a reason. We got promoted from L1 by signing a certain type of player, then when we got some money went feral and lost it. Again. The point is, we cannot keep talking about the past and trying to make people who failed, appear to have been successful. When they were not. They did not create any legacy or platform. Far from it. But equally, it is energy lost to continue talking about it now. We have cleaned the decks, and have got the club in a greater condition to progress. we now understand what a team that might make the Prem looks like, rather than making it up with people who had no idea, there is now a platform. It is time to look forward. Irrespective of who the manager may be, we are in a far better place to attract better professional people on and off the field to become a Prem side. It is what we do next that matters but we must stick to the plan.  There is a reason why 50 plus clubs have been in the Prem and we are not one of them. Many of those weaknesses have been addressed, and it is now time to build and look forward. 

Meliora

[Glen hump]

The training ground is nowhere near up there with the best in the country, very nice set up though.

[tin]

6 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

A fair point. 

From an infrastructure point of view, Lansdowns legacy will be unmatched. The stadium is fantastic and the training ground is finally in place and according to most is up there with the best in the country. 

From a backing point of view, it's tough to criticise the amount he has put into the club. £200m + the most recent total I've seen. 

But I guess the point that hits home most is the football and business decisions. Those have been significantly more miss than hit. 

If we take 2002 as the start point he's employed the following:

Tinnion: Failure

GJ: monumental success

Coppell: catastrophe

Millen: Failure

McInnes: Failure

O'Driscoll: Failure

Cotts: monumental success (Caveat being that he was Dawes' man).

Johnson: relative success ending in catastrophe 

Holden: Shocking failure

Pearson: relative success (from an on pitch perspective, monumental success off the pitch).

That makes some pretty grim reading.

Sexstone was good, Burt brilliant but binned off far too soon. Ashton an unmitigated disaster. 

I think it's fair to say Lansdown's legacy is mixed and for many it is those generally poor football decisions that carry the most weight. 

I also think he makes things worse every time he opens his mouth in public, from gloating when Holden won a couple of games, my club my way, promoting Jon to Chairman when he seemingly doesn't give a toss, judge me after Tinnion etc etc. To me it's been no surprise that the period he's been least "involved" has seen the football club begin to resemble a professional sports club... I worry that Pearson might well get us close and reinvigorate the old Lansdown. 

I think it's possible to be both grateful for the good stuff and think he's been a bang average owner. That's definitely how I view it. 

A lot of sense in there, but to describe SOD as a failure is a bit harsh IMO when he and Burt laid the foundations for Cotts’ “monumental success”.

Our training ground is something to grateful for, but nowhere near the best in the land. See Man City or Leicester for best in class. 

[Fuber]

19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Paraphrased - I don’t get why the fans are critical of Mark he does a good job at the EFL.

Perhaps he should’ve looked at the job he did here!

This. It spoke volumes at the time and in a similar vein to "My Club I'll do what I want" etc.

I appreciate the job SL has done in backing the club financially - but it remains that his actual management and leadership has been at best shoddy, and the cost has been basically fixing his own mistakes caused by lack of longer term planning.

[W-S-M Seagull]

21 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

I’d say millwall & cov are a year ahead of us in squad build. Cov  had problems off the pitch but their recruitment has been stable . Neither clubs have had to strip back £7-£8m off the wage bill getting rid of the high earners because they don’t function that way. We were in that position because Lansdown allowed it to happen 

Coventry for example have increased their wage bill by about 8/9 million whilst in the same period we've had to drastically cut ours. So it's not really any surprise that they are doing better than us currently. 

[Major Isewater]

19 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

It is and I think any other season would most likely be the case but both Millwall and Coventry have outperformed themselves this season. If anything it should give us hope. 

Luton are the club I’m most disappointed with being so far behind in terms of where we are. Based on last season they have not over performed, more so they now give themselves a decent shot of the playoffs on a nothing budget.

After losing Naismith and Cornick ! 

[spudski]

Whenever SL speaks...it's the same old rhetoric on here. It's so polarised.

Those for and against him, find ways of picking bits out of his comments to underline thoughts or agendas they have. 

Why can't he be listened to with a balanced perspective? 

For example...he never said he expects us to be in the play offs next season. He hopes/ would like us to be. He never gushed over Mark Robins...he mentioned how well he'd done and in the same breath Rowett. He was also very complimentary of NP. He said he'd signed a 3 year contract and hoped for promotion in third year...' let's see where we are then' was his comment. What's wrong with that? 

I love this forum...but in the last year or so it's become very black or white. For or against, left or right, he said, she said. Less and less is viewed with neutral balanced eyes imo. 

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

Whenever SL speaks...it's the same old rhetoric on here. It's so polarised.

Those for and against him, find ways of picking bits out of his comments to underline thoughts or agendas they have. 

Why can't he be listened to with a balanced perspective? 

For example...he never said he expects us to be in the play offs next season. He hopes/ would like us to be. He never gushed over Mark Robins...he mentioned how well he'd done and in the same breath Rowett. He was also very complimentary of NP. He said he'd signed a 3 year contract and hoped for promotion in third year...' let's see where we are then' was his comment. What's wrong with that? 

I love this forum...but in the last year or so it's become very black or white. For or against, left or right, he said, she said. Less and less is viewed with neutral balanced eyes imo. 

Not sure what thread you've been reading, but on this one people are highlighting SL's good and bad points, and discussing them in a civil manner.

The very definition of a balanced discussion is taking place. 

[spudski]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Not sure what thread you've been reading, but on this one people are highlighting SL's good and bad points, and discussing them in a civil manner.

The very definition of a balanced discussion is taking place. 

You have people for or against. It's obvious. It maybe balanced in as much as you are getting arguments from both ends...but it's obvious the arguments are agenda led or with a one sided perspective. Very little is contributed from in the middle 'or neutral' perspective...or in reality an observation of the truth/ how it was said. 

[Port Said Red]

55 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

A fair point. 

From an infrastructure point of view, Lansdowns legacy will be unmatched. The stadium is fantastic and the training ground is finally in place and according to most is up there with the best in the country. 

From a backing point of view, it's tough to criticise the amount he has put into the club. £200m + the most recent total I've seen. 

But I guess the point that hits home most is the football and business decisions. Those have been significantly more miss than hit. 

If we take 2002 as the start point he's employed the following:

Tinnion: Failure

GJ: monumental success

Coppell: catastrophe

Millen: Failure

McInnes: Failure

O'Driscoll: Failure

Cotts: monumental success (Caveat being that he was Dawes' man).

Johnson: relative success ending in catastrophe 

Holden: Shocking failure

Pearson: relative success (from an on pitch perspective, monumental success off the pitch).

That makes some pretty grim reading.

Sexstone was good, Burt brilliant but binned off far too soon. Ashton an unmitigated disaster. 

I think it's fair to say Lansdown's legacy is mixed and for many it is those generally poor football decisions that carry the most weight. 

I also think he makes things worse every time he opens his mouth in public, from gloating when Holden won a couple of games, my club my way, promoting Jon to Chairman when he seemingly doesn't give a toss, judge me after Tinnion etc etc. To me it's been no surprise that the period he's been least "involved" has seen the football club begin to resemble a professional sports club... I worry that Pearson might well get us close and reinvigorate the old Lansdown. 

I think it's possible to be both grateful for the good stuff and think he's been a bang average owner. That's definitely how I view it. 

So how does that Management record stack up against the majority of the other 92 clubs? I don't really follow these things enough to give an informed view, but I am aware of how many Managers sacked every season and each of them is probably considered a failure by their respective clubs. Many however go on to do well at other clubs, or were successful at other clubs prior to joining theirs. 

It's easy to say in hindsight that these Managers were destined for failure, but many have shown qualities in previous or subsequent roles, Tinnion for example had/has an eye for talented players as has now been proved, Coppell and O'Driscoll looked ideal, McInnes and Lee bright young things with fresh ideas, Millen a top coach at various clubs, even Holden is doing a pretty good job at Charlton. 

Is it that he chose well, but circumstances conspired against many of these people perhaps? But for a catastrophic level of injuries, Johnson Jr could have got us the success we all want, Tinnion and McInnes struggled to win over the dressing room.

I personally think that buying David James with money that Coppell had earmarked elsewhere was a poor decision, akin to the ones that Scott Davidson made with Ward, but again, it's easy to say that from here on my sofa.

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

A fair point. 

From an infrastructure point of view, Lansdowns legacy will be unmatched. The stadium is fantastic and the training ground is finally in place and according to most is up there with the best in the country. 

From a backing point of view, it's tough to criticise the amount he has put into the club. £200m + the most recent total I've seen. 

But I guess the point that hits home most is the football and business decisions. Those have been significantly more miss than hit. 

If we take 2002 as the start point he's employed the following:

Tinnion: Failure

GJ: monumental success

Coppell: catastrophe

Millen: Failure

McInnes: Failure

O'Driscoll: Failure

Cotts: monumental success (Caveat being that he was Dawes' man).

Johnson: relative success ending in catastrophe 

Holden: Shocking failure

Pearson: relative success (from an on pitch perspective, monumental success off the pitch).

That makes some pretty grim reading.

Sexstone was good, Burt brilliant but binned off far too soon. Ashton an unmitigated disaster. 

I think it's fair to say Lansdown's legacy is mixed and for many it is those generally poor football decisions that carry the most weight. 

I also think he makes things worse every time he opens his mouth in public, from gloating when Holden won a couple of games, my club my way, promoting Jon to Chairman when he seemingly doesn't give a toss, judge me after Tinnion etc etc. To me it's been no surprise that the period he's been least "involved" has seen the football club begin to resemble a professional sports club... I worry that Pearson might well get us close and reinvigorate the old Lansdown. 

I think it's possible to be both grateful for the good stuff and think he's been a bang average owner. That's definitely how I view it. 

Fantastic post, nailed my thoughts and views there also. 

[mozo]

19 hours ago, Dredd said:

Let's not also forget that if a certain Mr Johnson was still here then Scott and Conway would probably be on their 3rd loan spell each and nowhere near the first team. Nige blooding these players ...

 

4 hours ago, petehinton said:

IMO Bell, Conway and Benarous are nowhere to be seen in the line up under LJ. 

 

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, don’t think they would all have got minutes, nor the volume of minutes…but I do feel that Nige wouldn’t have created bloat

This is all wild speculation my friends!

First of all, we're talking about two completely different remits. LJ was tasked with getting top 6. He didn't have any wonderkids available to him and besides Kelly, we're there any starlets that we feel he mismanaged?

NP, however, has in my opinion been given a direct brief to cut the wage bill and utilise the academy talent. Lucky for him, he arrived just as a Premier League talent joined the club and also had two strikers with the skillset to make an immediate impact.

Yes we can credit Nige and Co for getting the best our of Conway and (to a lesser extent) Bell, but LJ also got extraordinary performances out of players who in hindsight weren't as good as we thought. If we credit Nige for Conway, let's credit LJ for Reid.

This isn't me saying that LJ was as good a gaffer as Nige. I'd choose Nige put of the two.

But I'm saying that the comparisons being made here are flimsy. No offence, you're all great, it just doesn't add up to.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, italian dave said:

On Bell, Conway, Belarous: appreciate that LJ is fair game as the whipping boy for most things, but I think it’s taking it a bit far to criticise him for the presumed failure to select players who simply weren’t available at the time. We’ve no way of knowing that at all. 

Think it was far easier (factual?) to criticise the players signed and available that he didn’t play!

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, Glen hump said:

Being a very good accountant, business man is very different too knowing football ‘ there’s no way on this earth he’s a football man, he should of brought in a director of football years ago.

Tbf, he actually recognised this after the Coppell fiasco and so sought "professional" help. Unfortunately, that help was called Mark Ashton. Lansdown asked the right questions about how he was running the club but came up with the wrong answer. Wouldn't it be interesting to know what led him to the door marked 'Swiss Tony, Snakeoil Salesman'?

Edited April 30, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Tbf, he actually recognised this after the Coppell fiasco and so sought "professional" help. Unfortunately, that help was called Mark Ashton. Lansdown asked the right questions about how he was running the club but came up with the wrong answer. Wouldn't it be interesting to know what led him to the door marked 'Swiss Tony, Snakeoil Salesman'?

Ashton arrived first in a consultancy role too, so SL did try before he bought to an extent. 

Ashton's references from Watford and Wycombe must have got lost in the post.

[Merrick's Marvels]

18 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Ashton's references from Watford and Wycombe must have got lost in the post.

The under statement of the season! Given his initial consultancy 10 years ago was a failure - and required the arrival of Cotterill and Burt to sort the mess we were in - it's scarcely credible that Lansdown went back for more.

Perhaps he doesn't get the try before you buy concept. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Glen hump]

27 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Ashton arrived first in a consultancy role too, so SL did try before he bought to an extent. 

Ashton's references from Watford and Wycombe must have got lost in the post.

What I find more concerning is the amount of time he gave Swiss, most fans had sussed him out after a year or so, or was it his ego wouldn’t let him admit he had got it wrong again.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

So how does that Management record stack up against the majority of the other 92 clubs? I don't really follow these things enough to give an informed view, but I am aware of how many Managers sacked every season and each of them is probably considered a failure by their respective clubs. Many however go on to do well at other clubs, or were successful at other clubs prior to joining theirs. 

It's easy to say in hindsight that these Managers were destined for failure, but many have shown qualities in previous or subsequent roles, Tinnion for example had/has an eye for talented players as has now been proved, Coppell and O'Driscoll looked ideal, McInnes and Lee bright young things with fresh ideas, Millen a top coach at various clubs, even Holden is doing a pretty good job at Charlton. 

Is it that he chose well, but circumstances conspired against many of these people perhaps? But for a catastrophic level of injuries, Johnson Jr could have got us the success we all want, Tinnion and McInnes struggled to win over the dressing room.

I personally think that buying David James with money that Coppell had earmarked elsewhere was a poor decision, akin to the ones that Scott Davidson made with Ward, but again, it's easy to say that from here on my sofa.

That’s a good point, PSR. And I even had the same thought about the financial mess that’s the subject of so much discussion on this thread - and others. 

I’m not trying to under-play the mess we were in financially. And, on the same point that @spudski makes about polarisation, I don’t get this binary ‘it was all down to covid’ or ‘it was all down to MA/LJ’ - it’s quite possible for it to be a bit of both (and probably one or two other things! 

And I also recognise that it was SLs stated intent to make the club self-supporting - although he’s made a bit less of that recently.

But nevertheless, half the clubs in the championship have been in a desperate financial state over the past 5 years or so. We’ve never actually got to the point of points deductions, transfer embargos or ground closures. So as I say without underestimating the risks associated with where we got to, we don’t stack up that differently to a load of other clubs.

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

What I find more concerning is the amount of time he gave Swiss, most fans had sussed him out after a year or so, or was it his ego wouldn’t let him admit he had got it wrong again.

And even then, it was MA’s decision to leave, wasn’t it?

Albeit, I think SL may then have realised how he’d been stitched up with the Americans and Ipswich. 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Think it was far easier (factual?) to criticise the players signed and available that he didn’t play!

Yes, that’s  very true Dave. Although to be fair he had so many to choose from…….! The Mark Ashton lottery game: just buy as many random players from L1 or lesser known European clubs, and one in 5 will turn out to be a Kodjia or a Webster! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 hours ago, Glen hump said:

 it’s great he’s covering loses every year but we’re losing millions because of his incompetence .

The external environment is also a factor.

Wealthy and at times reckless owners, the distortions of Parachute Payments...very much factors.

Stoke had a cash loss of £39m last season to finish midtable in the Championship. Just one example. If SL wanted to bolster his case a bit more he could cite some of these.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous