Massengo Contract

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

God Monaco have had our pants down if he goes back there for compensation only!

 

Essentially been paid for a 4 year loan without paying any wages either.

Crikey, that’s an interesting way of looking at it.  You’re right though!

[marcofisher]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Crikey, that’s an interesting way of looking at it.  You’re right though!

Maybe his development wasn't as expected, but they are still getting back a 21-year old with 100+ apps at a good level and is already incredibly familiar with the club. For a pittance as well. Not much to lose for them.

Edited June 16, 2023 by marcofisher

[Rebounder]

8 hours ago, marcofisher said:

God Monaco have had our pants down if he goes back there for compensation only!

 

Essentially been paid for a 4 year loan without paying any wages either.

Then he'll play 2 seasons there, win the euros with France and move to Chelsea for £20m as was always planned.

[Spike]

On 16/06/2023 at 10:33, marcofisher said:

God Monaco have had our pants down if he goes back there for compensation only!

 

Essentially been paid for a 4 year loan without paying any wages either.

According to this tweet we won't get any compensation at all?
 

I mean I don't know how the whole compensation thing works and have no idea if this is correct or not but the thought of us getting nothing at all after buying what looked like an insanely good talent for a chunk of money is quite demotivating.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Spike said:

According to this tweet we won't get any compensation at all?
 

I mean I don't know how the whole compensation thing works and have no idea if this is correct or not but the thought of us getting nothing at all after buying what looked like an insanely good talent for a chunk of money is quite demotivating.

Bearing in mind Nigel Pearson said the reason we’d offered him a contract was to get compo, notwithstanding my understanding of the 2 compo scheme rules, then I’d suggest this is wrong.

[Davefevs]

The vagaries of semi-copy and paste!  Here’s Fab’s original tweet!!!

You don’t write “….have asked for conditions of the deal…” if there’s no compo.  Suspect all clubs are asking whether Massengo’s contract offer is sufficient to trigger the relevant compensation scheme, I.e. was it at least as favourable as his current contract.

[RedRoss]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bearing in mind Nigel Pearson said the reason we’d offered him a contract was to get compo, notwithstanding my understanding of the 2 compo scheme rules, then I’d suggest this is wrong.

Your bang on imo. Think they've not understood the process and reinterpreted Romano's tweet.

[GrahamC]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The vagaries of semi-copy and paste!  Here’s Fab’s original tweet!!!

You don’t write “….have asked for conditions of the deal…” if there’s no compo.  Suspect all clubs are asking whether Massengo’s contract offer is sufficient to trigger the relevant compensation scheme, I.e. was it at least as favourable as his current contract.

They don’t understand what a free agent is, it means he is free to move on, not that he can do so for free.

[italian dave]

46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bearing in mind Nigel Pearson said the reason we’d offered him a contract was to get compo, notwithstanding my understanding of the 2 compo scheme rules, then I’d suggest this is wrong.

 

24 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

They don’t understand what a free agent is, it means he is free to move on, not that he can do so for free.

It’s not going to be much though, is it? In the overall scheme of things, not an amount that will make a huge difference to the decision for those three clubs?

[bcfc01]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

 

It’s not going to be much though, is it? In the overall scheme of things, not an amount that will make a huge difference to the decision for those three clubs?

Between 360k and 1m I would think, depending on where he goes.

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Between 360k and 1m I would think, depending on where he goes.

Thanks - bit more than I'd imagined. Presumably the lower end is for Monaco/Frieburg (I know that's a fixed amount). I don't imagine that will worry them If the £1m is Burnley then that might affect how they view it.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

Between 360k and 1m I would think, depending on where he goes.

Yeah, I’d previously said:

• €360k for Freiburg / Monaco
• towards £1.5m for Burnley

so we are in sane ball-park

[Roger Red Hat]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

so we are in sane ball-park

Allianz stadium?

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

so we are in sane ball-park

We would be Mad to expect more 

[Davefevs]

That’ll do for me!

[marcofisher]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That’ll do for me!

That means we must be signing Cole Palmer then!  

[BLRed]

Wish this massengo saga would hurry up and get resolved so we can draw a line under him and move on

[marcofisher]

Just now, BLRed said:

Wish this massengo saga would hurry up and get resolved so we can draw a line under him and move on

I don't really think it affects us at all. He has practically already left, we are just seeing what compo we get. As far as squad planning goes and impact on the team, he is not even a consideration.

[BLRed]

I was thinking more from the compo point of view as it will be more for the coffers and would go a good way towards extra recruitments, especially if he stayed in England 

[marcofisher]

6 minutes ago, BLRed said:

I was thinking more from the compo point of view as it will be more for the coffers and would go a good way towards extra recruitments, especially if he stayed in England 

True. I think however our summer recruitment plans will be based off the previous assumption that he would be going back to the continent.

[Simon bristol]

4 hours ago, marcofisher said:

I don't really think it affects us at all. He has practically already left, we are just seeing what compo we get. As far as squad planning goes and impact on the team, he is not even a consideration.

I guess if he goes to burnley and we get 1 million, that will make a big impact on our ability to get someone in, compared to the 300k we get if he goes abroad.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Simon bristol said:

I guess if he goes to burnley and we get 1 million, that will make a big impact on our ability to get someone in, compared to the 300k we get if he goes abroad.

I don’t think we are running things that tightly, but of course it all helps.

Its quite ironic that a Premier League, a Ligue 1 and a Bundesliga are interested (and Fab is as genuine a transfer rumour bloke as you’ll get) in a player that most can’t wait to go.

I’m gutted.  At 21, he’s just getting going in his career, plenty more to come.

Then again I’ve heard quite a bit of criticism of Alex Scott of late too.

[Simon bristol]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think we are running things that tightly, but of course it all helps.

Its quite ironic that a Premier League, a Ligue 1 and a Bundesliga are interested (and Fab is as genuine a transfer rumour bloke as you’ll get) in a player that most can’t wait to go.

I’m gutted.  At 21, he’s just getting going in his career, plenty more to come.

Then again I’ve heard quite a bit of criticism of Alex Scott of late too.

The extra million or so obviously comes in handy,, do you think if burnley was to be the club we have any power to add a sell on clause as part of the negotiations?? It would make sense that brighton did this with the roberts transfer, ie free transfer but with a clause on future sale?

id be surprised if we spent anymore money on fees now unless some more money comes in,,, do you think theres still some left in the pot?

 

 

[Bourne End Red]

19 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

The extra million or so obviously comes in handy,, do you think if burnley was to be the club we have any power to add a sell on clause as part of the negotiations?? It would make sense that brighton did this with the roberts transfer, ie free transfer but with a clause on future sale?

id be surprised if we spent anymore money on fees now unless some more money comes in,,, do you think theres still some left in the pot?

 

 

He’s not a free transfer he’s out of contract. There will be no sell on clauses or any bonuses.

it will be a fee paid for compensation 

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

The extra million or so obviously comes in handy,, do you think if burnley was to be the club we have any power to add a sell on clause as part of the negotiations?? It would make sense that brighton did this with the roberts transfer, ie free transfer but with a clause on future sale?

id be surprised if we spent anymore money on fees now unless some more money comes in,,, do you think theres still some left in the pot?

 

 

Stage 1 - clubs try and agree the fee / clauses themselves.

if no agreement reached,

Stage 2 - PFCC “Tribunal” decides fee.  Most published cases from PFCC show an initial payment / fee, plus the inclusion of appearance based add-ons, and a sell-on percentage.  Another reason to hope he goes to Burnley.

On an aside, they was a rumour that Anderlecht were interested in January.  I wonder if that emanated from recruitment whilst Kompany was still their boss???

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Bourne End Red said:

He’s not a free transfer he’s out of contract. There will be no sell on clauses or any bonuses.

it will be a fee paid for compensation 

Are you referring to Roberts or Massengo?

If Massengo, please read my reply above.

If Roberts, as far as we know Brighton did not offer him a contract, so he has just left.  We should have no ongoing liability to Brighton.

[Bourne End Red]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Are you referring to Roberts or Massengo?

If Massengo, please read my reply above.

If Roberts, as far as we know Brighton did not offer him a contract, so he has just left.  We should have no ongoing liability to Brighton.

In that case I stand massively corrected, was sure sell ons wouldn’t apply. But happy to be corrected Dave.

[Clutton Caveman]

On 08/06/2023 at 12:24, Mr Popodopolous said:

In a true central 3 I could see him fitting better than prior when NP wasn't confident in the 4-3-3, or when Holden and Johnson didn't 

However the ship has sailed unfortunately. No goals granted but his game wasn't really about that, assists yeah perhaps should have had more od these but to play in a 2 or a 3 with an unnatural 3rd player ie Palmer or whoever, can leave the 2nd true CM exposed and or unbalance the team a bit given the energy of Massengo. Way it is evolving now would have suited a number of the 2019 intake IMO. 

Problem is too many of the assists were for the opposition when he lost the ball in our half.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Problem is too many of the assists were for the opposition when he lost the ball in our half.

CM 2 vs CM 3, ths latter ie a genuine 3 gives rhst little bit of extra margin for error.

[Jerseybean]

Burnley bound maybe 

[REDOXO]

On 20/06/2023 at 05:07, Clutton Caveman said:

Problem is too many of the assists were for the opposition when he lost the ball in our half.

it would really get on my wick. 
 

I know many people think he has great ability and I think he does too. If he was a competitor in a keepy uppy competition or any kind of close control exhibition you would really appreciate his range! 

[KegCity]

9 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

it would really get on my wick. 
 

I know many people think he has great ability and I think he does too. If he was a competitor in a keepy uppy competition or any kind of close control exhibition you would really appreciate his range! 

Wonder why clubs higher up the food chain than us are looking at him then?

[REDOXO]

16 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Wonder why clubs higher up the food chain than us are looking at him then?

Cheap and worth a punt as he may develop into a top team player rather than a show pony. 

[Davefevs]

Not a fan are you @REDOXO!

[REDOXO]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Not a fan are you @REDOXO!

No Dave. :laugh:! Don’t hide too well either. 
 

The issue with HNM is he has undoubted good close control. He has nice little drag backs and is good at getting between the opposition and the ball (Now make the comparison with Scott who has all of that and a million other aspects to his game)

HNM has not developed other aspects of his game to any extent since he got in the first team. Is that due to the club or due to the player, I don’t know, but he became a bigger and bigger liability as he wasn’t great at much of the team aspects of the game, including passing, shooting, tracking, defending, clearing (how many shanked clearances were there…my god) and pretty much anything other than having the ball at or near his feet. 
 

The bloke up the thread asked why some clubs may be interested, no fee of course, but he does have undoubted ability that some will hope to develop into a very good team player. We will see but City didn’t. The boy knew he wasn’t moving forward and the last year is now history. Mr Pearson didn’t want him for our first team for a number of reasons the contract thing just being one aspect. 
 

I hope the kid goes on to be a world beater, but he stalled here in the end and it’s on others to get the player out of him!!

[KegCity]

5 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

No Dave. :laugh:! Don’t hide too well either. 
 

The issue with HNM is he has undoubted good close control. He has nice little drag backs and is good at getting between the opposition and the ball (Now make the comparison with Scott who has all of that and a million other aspects to his game)

HNM has not developed other aspects of his game to any extent since he got in the first team. Is that due to the club or due to the player, I don’t know, but he became a bigger and bigger liability as he wasn’t great at much of the team aspects of the game, including passing, shooting, tracking, defending, clearing (how many shanked clearances were there…my god) and pretty much anything other than having the ball at or near his feet. 
 

The bloke up the thread asked why some clubs may be interested, no fee of course, but he does have undoubted ability that some will hope to develop into a very good team player. We will see but City didn’t. The boy knew he wasn’t moving forward and the last year is now history. Mr Pearson didn’t want him for our first team for a number of reasons the contract thing just being one aspect. 
 

I hope the kid goes on to be a world beater, but he stalled here in the end and it’s on others to get the player out of him!!

I asked because you seem to believe that aside from good close control he doesn't have much to his game. That is clearly not the case just from watching him, but he wouldn't have consistently been chased by clubs bigger than us if he wasn't already a good player with potential.

[REDOXO]

8 minutes ago, KegCity said:

I asked because you seem to believe that aside from good close control he doesn't have much to his game. That is clearly not the case just from watching him, but he wouldn't have consistently been chased by clubs bigger than us if he wasn't already a good player with potential.

He would have been consistently in our side if he had much else 

[Oh Louie louie]

Well said red, people can shower me with all the stats going and all these clubs in a massive rush to sign him, a midfielder who doesn't create and is a liability in defence, spot on

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Well said red, people can shower me with all the stats going and all these clubs in a massive rush to sign him, a midfielder who doesn't create and is a liability in defence, spot on

You do know it’s fine to have a different opinion?  I totally disagree with RedOxo and yourself, but it doesn’t make either side’s view right or wrong, just different and entitled to make.  Without stats (and yes, I do like my stats), I could write a compelling case to give my view….in fact I probably have many times already over the last few years.

[Oh Louie louie]

Go and watch Gary Shelton at this level, marivn Elliot or David noble, then go and watch massengo, somebody else has politely pointed out, it maybe time to draw a line under this and move on, 

[Oh Louie louie]

Yes. Its a matter of opinion Dave, but his psycofans can't see the woods through the trees, people will be celebrating on here if we get our pants pulled down, as I say. Might be time to move on

[marcofisher]

Just now, Oh Louie louie said:

Yes. Its a matter of opinion Dave, but his psycofans can't see the woods through the trees, people will be celebrating on here if we get our pants pulled down, as I say. Might be time to move on

What if I can't?

[Oh Louie louie]

2 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

What if I can't?

I told you go watch a Shelton or a Elliot, that Will soften the blow,

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Yes. It’s a matter of opinion Dave, but his psycofans can't see the woods through the trees, people will be celebrating on here if we get our pants pulled down, as I say. Might be time to move on

It’s a matter of opinion, but your opinion is the right one?

Ok, I’m moving on, because you said.  I’m just a psychofan, I’ll tie a knot in drawstring pants to save them coming down.

 

[REDOXO]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You do know it’s fine to have a different opinion?  I totally disagree with RedOxo and yourself, but it doesn’t make either side’s view right or wrong, just different and entitled to make.  Without stats (and yes, I do like my stats), I could write a compelling case to give my view….in fact I probably have many times already over the last few years.

David. You disagree with me! How jolly well could you!!!

You know I’m Spot On! 

:laugh:! 
 

 

 

 

[marcofisher]

Just now, Oh Louie louie said:

I told you go watch a Shelton or a Elliot, that Will soften the blow,

Both of these players are retired and left City a long time ago. I think it might be time to draw a line under it and move on?

[Oh Louie louie]

Time to move on, or no ideal what a real midfielder needs at this level to thrive you pick!

[Oh Louie louie]

On the quote legendary massengo thread, I upset his psycofans before, they were swearing shouting at me palace were bidding thirty million he's Thierry Henry's best mate, Chelsea want him, etc  I  really don't think you can have a sensible conversation with them

[Betty Swallocks]

3 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

On the quote legendary massengo thread, I upset his psycofans before, they were swearing shouting at me palace were bidding thirty million he's Thierry Henry's best mate, Chelsea want him, etc  I  really don't think you can have a sensible conversation with them

You okay, mate? 

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

David. You disagree with me! How jolly well could you!!!

You know I’m Spot On! 

:laugh:! 
 

 

 

 

It’s my dark side!

[Northern Red]

7 minutes ago, Betty Swallocks said:

You okay, mate? 

That'll be a no:

18 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Time to move on, or no ideal what a real midfielder needs at this level to thrive you pick!

 

[marcofisher]

 

[Oh Louie louie]

The last few posts proves my point about his psycofans,

[Oh Louie louie]

Now they are giving it are you okay, I know what they are saying, but how mental Will some off you look if i bring this thread up?

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

The last few posts proves my point about his psycofans,

I think it’s more about your inability to take someone else’s opinion as valid to have an opinion.

[DT The Optimist]

I enjoy watching ex City players progress, or not, as the case may be. 
example will be if Sem becomes an established premier league player, or not.

Same for HNM, where he ends up and what he achieves in next three years. Reading threads here some rate him, some don’t. His progress will perhaps show who called it right. 
For me he never really shone for us,  apart from a few games that was a shame.

[marcofisher]

40 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

On the quote legendary massengo thread, I upset his psycofans before, they were swearing shouting at me palace were bidding thirty million he's Thierry Henry's best mate, Chelsea want him, etc  I  really don't think you can have a sensible conversation with them

Just to clarify - You're not in favour of retiring his shirt number?

[Oh Louie louie]

The problem isn't my ability to take someone else's opinion as valid, in the biggest guessing game thread in the history of otib, well spotted dave

[JoeAman08]

Never thought he got a consistent run, in a consistent team or in a consistent position. He arrived and we went almost straight into covid. He had a lot against him in our most dour sides in years. Watched him play back in his own country against PSG a few weeks back and he looked good. 
 

Is time to move on but reckon we’ll look back and think we didn’t do him many favours. He’ll be a good player in a top league for years imo. 

[marcofisher]

3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Never thought he got a consistent run, in a consistent team or in a consistent position. He arrived and we went almost straight into covid. He had a lot against him in our most dour sides in years. Watched him play back in his own country against PSG a few weeks back and he looked good. 
 

Is time to move on but reckon we’ll look back and think we didn’t do him many favours. He’ll be a good player in a top league for years imo. 

I don't fit he fit the way we wanted to play until Pearson came in. LJ seemed to sign him more as a potential player rather than for the team.

Pearson was fair with HNM in my opinion, he had his chances was playing regularly enough under NP until it was clear he had already decided he wanted to be elsewhere.

[Elruliri]

Wrong club at the wrong time for me. We're in the middle of a rebuild and he doesn't fit the structure in which We're heading. There's a player there but someone else will see the benefit of him. Unfortunately not us.

[Oh Louie louie]

I know nobody knows what club what country or what compo we are getting so I'd like too apologise, about me misreading the situation here,

[Elruliri]

39 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

The last few posts proves my point about his psycofans,

No it doesn't,

[REDOXO]

17 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Never thought he got a consistent run, in a consistent team or in a consistent position. He arrived and we went almost straight into covid. He had a lot against him in our most dour sides in years. Watched him play back in his own country against PSG a few weeks back and he looked good. 
 

Is time to move on but reckon we’ll look back and think we didn’t do him many favours. He’ll be a good player in a top league for years imo. 

I think he might be. However it will need someone to get the best out of him. I think it’s in there but no one got it out consistently here and its a matter of time whether we see if someone else can. We can count a few games he looked brilliant and a load more otherwise, we’ll see if that changes and he finds a regular spot in someone decent midfield. 
 

[Bris Red]

35 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

I don't fit he fit the way we wanted to play until Pearson came in. LJ seemed to sign him more as a potential player rather than for the team.

Pearson was fair with HNM in my opinion, he had his chances was playing regularly enough under NP until it was clear he had already decided he wanted to be elsewhere.

Indeed. I think Pearson rates HNM quite highly and wants to keep him but the situation is obviously out of his hands now.

A real shame as i think HNM had the potential to be a really key player for us but it obviously isn’t meant to be.

[Davefevs]

15 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Never thought he got a consistent run, in a consistent team or in a consistent position. He arrived and we went almost straight into covid. He had a lot against him in our most dour sides in years. Watched him play back in his own country against PSG a few weeks back and he looked good. 
 

Is time to move on but reckon we’ll look back and think we didn’t do him many favours. He’ll be a good player in a top league for years imo. 

I kinda agree, and people throw “he’s too inconsistent” label at him…but virtually all of our players are inconsistent, regardless of their age, let alone a 21 year old.

15 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Indeed. I think Pearson rates HNM quite highly and wants to keep him but the situation is obviously out of his hands now.

A real shame as i think HNM had the potential to be a really key player for us but it obviously isn’t meant to be.

For me, if Alex Scott goes, Han would actually be a good player to come in.  Not like-for-like because nobody is Alex Scott, well not in our league anyway, but to compliment what else we have.  Having license to play a bit more advanced - rather than (wrong imho) being a deep / defence midfielder who’s told to be part of a defensive screen - would suit Han.  Before he came here he often played left of a diamond, or at the top of it, not at the base of it.

Anyone remember QPR (a) - he was outstanding.

Anyone remember the games him and Alex played together in 21/22 when all the experienced midfielders were injured…an 18 / 19 year old midfield combo, running the game.

Yeah, he’s made some errors that have cost the odd goal (Cardiff - home), but eff me, who hasn’t.

Even this season he had good games (Luton - home / Coventry - away in the cup).

Of course I / we have to move on, but I’m disappointed that he’s going because with Alex likely to be off, I think the right player was already in the building.  As you say I think Nige rates Han the footballer, but he made a poor choice re contract (from Nige’s point of view).

[Davefevs]

Wolfsburg and Betis interested.  Likely to be truth in this.

[Gazred]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Anyone remember the games him and Alex played together in 21/22 when all the experienced midfielders were injured…an 18 / 19 year old midfield combo, running the game

Preston away? Remember the Preston supporters being very complimentary about them both and they were up against 2 seasoned pros in the midfield as well. Totally bossed it.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Wolfsburg and Betis interested.  Likely to be truth in this.

Ooh Betis.

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Major Isewater

[Oh Louie louie]

Another two clubs now interested,tell Wolfsburg or betis boss watch a video off somebody bossing the midfield at Preston....  God that will be a awkward conversation...