Scott Twine - Loan Confirmed - No option to buy

[BCFCGav]

Hope we’ve got some feelers out abroad. Seen other Champ clubs pick up gems out of Europe for way less than Twine is being quoted at.

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

The thing is we see a lot of people talk up players only for those players to go on to not do much, the whole "could have got him for less back when" discussion means nothing really because it's pure "what if" as he could have joined us back then and not developed for numerous reasons. Someone else could have got Alex Scott but maybe without our solid youth focus he may have not developed into the player he is today. I hate the whole "we should have got him back then" argument, too many factors and if it was obvious there was a real talent and that he was interested I think a lot more clubs would have got involved back then. 

I think our youth system has a good eye for when they can bring a player in and develop them and the earlier you bring in a player the more work you'll have to do, for all we know we looked at him and said "he's too raw, we don't have the time to invest" whereas the route he took they did have that time. 

All of that aside it's now and here that matters, we didn't sign him and if the price is £5m and the club feel that is too steep then that's the situation and we need to look elsewhere. I feel the club better knows its financial limits than any of us fans do and are in a better place to make a decision on whether he's worth it or not.

But just to clarify again. 
I’m not bothered that we “missed out” on him 3 years ago. As I said, plenty of players get missed. There are of course always a lot of what-ifs as you say, and these things are always a gamble.  

Twine wasn’t signed by us at that time and that’s fine. Decision was made. No problem with that. 
 

What is embarrassing is if we return 2.5 years later for £5m. 
 

If he goes elsewhere for £5m then again I’m not bothered. But I am very bothered if we spend £5m on someone that we chose not to look at 3 years ago for a tiny percentage of that figure. 
 

None of this is about ego or one upmanship which has been mentioned on here. I’m not bothered that we didn’t sign him before. But I am very bothered if we sign him now for an extraordinary sum! 

[lenred]

2 hours ago, Jose said:

We are not signing him for 5 million. Not a chance. I’d rather not sign anyone than get ripped off completely. 
 

I’ve not much hope this window, so when inevitably it is a poor one, disappointment won’t be too high. 

Very happy that this shows we are not going back to the crazy days of overspending to get ‘our man’. No way is he worth anywhere near that amount.   

[Harry]

19 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Twine was on our door step & seems a shame that we didn’t respond to that fact coupled with recommendations.  However, we always hear about the ones that got away but what about those that were also recommended whose careers bombed after the recommendation thus avoiding us wasting money.  Twine seems on parallel with gamblers who only ever tell you about their wins.  I’m genuinely interested in the % of players who were recommended & went on to flourish against the total pool of all recommendations as no idea personally?

 

To answer this. 
There are lots of players that I quite like and that I’d recommend for ‘further viewing’. But there are very few that I’ve been absolutely adamant that we must sign. 
A list of those who I’ve been absolutely adamant that we must sign : Pack, Freeman, Ayling, Grimes, Ollie Watkins, Bowen, Twine, Rudoni. 

[cidercity1987]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

To answer this. 
There are lots of players that I quite like and that I’d recommend for ‘further viewing’. But there are very few that I’ve been absolutely adamant that we must sign. 
A list of those who I’ve been absolutely adamant that we must sign : Pack, Freeman, Ayling, Grimes, Ollie Watkins, Bowen, Twine, Rudoni. 

You've given 'a list', what about 'the list'

Come on Harry, you must have picked the wrong runner at some point.....

[Harry]

9 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

You've given 'a list', what about 'the list'

Come on Harry, you must have picked the wrong runner at some point.....

As I said. There’s lots of other players who I’ve really liked. But those listed above are the very few who I’ve been absolutely adamant and convinced about. 
That list is my 95% to 100% ers. 
There a good list of 85% to 95% ers. 
And the a further list of 75% to 85% ers. 
 

I’m only absolutely adamant about the 95% + list. 
But yes; of course there are lots of other players who I like. 

[Coxy27]

I for one am really surprised, and in many ways, outraged, that our club didn't listen to random people on the internet and base their scouting network on that.

[Harry]

10 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

I for one am really surprised, and in many ways, outraged, that our club didn't listen to random people on the internet and base their scouting network on that.

Again. Just to be clear. This wasn’t just mutterings on the internet. 

Anyway. As I said. I’m not at all bothered that we didn’t sign him. 
But I do find it laughable that we’d consider paying such a high price 2.5 years later. 
Which is the main reason why, even though I like him a lot, I hope we don’t actually sign him now. 

[Rob k]

19 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

I for one am really surprised, and in many ways, outraged, that our club didn't listen to random people on the internet and base their scouting network on that.

Has it occurred to you that some people on this very forum are maybe not just random people off the internet….

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, Harry said:

To answer this. 
There are lots of players that I quite like and that I’d recommend for ‘further viewing’. But there are very few that I’ve been absolutely adamant that we must sign. 
A list of those who I’ve been absolutely adamant that we must sign : Pack, Freeman, Ayling, Grimes, Ollie Watkins, Bowen, Twine, Rudoni. 

I think I’m very similar, lots of players I like, a much smaller number I’d genuinely say “we must sign”.  And of course some are rather obvious - Jason Knight, although even with him, it was on the basis of not just him being a good player, but that I thought he was a fantastic fit for us.

Some of it depends on value for money.  Regardless of “missing” Twine or how good a player he is….would I spend £5m on him?  Nope.  I still think he is a bit of “unknown quantity” at this level.  Hence why (imho) recruitment wise he’s a player you want to get early, because the cost matches the risk.

Ostigard

Rudoni

Ogbene

Knight

Koroma

In recent years were my “musts”.  Thought they were all great fits and achievable signings.

Plus a couple of Peterborough players who never make the cut, because of the Barry Fry / cost too much factor!

[Harry]

50 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

You've given 'a list', what about 'the list'

Come on Harry, you must have picked the wrong runner at some point.....

 

37 minutes ago, Harry said:

As I said. There’s lots of other players who I’ve really liked. But those listed above are the very few who I’ve been absolutely adamant and convinced about. 
That list is my 95% to 100% ers. 
There a good list of 85% to 95% ers. 
And the a further list of 75% to 85% ers. 
 

I’m only absolutely adamant about the 95% + list. 
But yes; of course there are lots of other players who I like. 

Actually Cidercity, I will expand a bit more. 
Yes, there have been some players who I’ve been keen on who haven’t maybe hit the heights. 
I was very keen on Callum Wright. From Leicester, now at Plymouth. He’d have been borderline in my 95%+ list. 
I was very keen on Josh Sheehan when he was a free from Newport. He’s at Bolton currently. He’d have been in my 95%+ range too. 
After 2 initial viewings, I had Anthony Hartigan in my 95% range. But I then watched him a further 12 or so times and he dropped into my 85% range. He went to Mansfield and then had injuries and is on loan at Barnet at the mo.

For what it’s worth, Mehmeti was in my 85-95% range. 
 

So yes, there are always ‘lists’. But I do have an absolutely must sign list and Twine was on it. 

[archie andrews]

22 hours ago, Distortia said:

Out of the loop here - why is he (allegedly) leaving Hull early? Isn't his loan there until the summer?

Notts county after him too.... 

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

As I said. There’s lots of other players who I’ve really liked. But those listed above are the very few who I’ve been absolutely adamant and convinced about. 
That list is my 95% to 100% ers. 
There a good list of 85% to 95% ers. 
And the a further list of 75% to 85% ers. 
 

I’m only absolutely adamant about the 95% + list. 
But yes; of course there are lots of other players who I like. 

Where was Tomlin on your list 

[Harry]

5 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Where was Tomlin on your list 

was never on one of my lists. 
 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Where was Tomlin on your list 

He was on a weight-ing list!

[Gazred]

He didn't get very far with this did he...

[Philly The Kid]

What happened about the Massengo compo?
Have we had that or is there a deal to done there?
I read I think upwards of £1M in compo as it was an English club so maybe the deal could be structured in the same way it was with Brownhill/Wells....

[Lrrr]

19 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

What happened about the Massengo compo?
Have we had that or is there a deal to done there?
I read I think upwards of £1M in compo as it was an English club so maybe the deal could be structured in the same way it was with Brownhill/Wells....

No where near a mil 

[RollsRoyce]

The issue is less about the player's ability, but the strategy and direction of City. With such a small turnover and losses of £20M plus , again, you cannot flip-flop between developing academy and youth players, or players early in their development, with a player already having a third pro contract and a multi-million transfer. it does not fit. It would be financial suicide. Again. We have already done the Chelsea trio, add in Wells, and that is close to £20M plus wages with zero return. If a player like Twine was of interest, and he was clearly known by the club, then post Swindon was the best time to gamble(as every transfer is to an extent) and at the very worst, when at MK. It is certainly not now. The boat has sailed for a club where our income is low and we we need to develop and nurture. Free transfers maybe, but that sort of fee for a player who is at a Prem club and regarded as not good enough would be a terrible financial error. We cannot repeat this nonsense. The signing of Murphy is a better example of where we need to be, and where we have had some very good success these last few years. The signs are, that we have at least understood this. Twine on loan is a different discussion and would make more financial sense. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

£30-35m turnover isn't too bad...

High cost base too of course. I wouldn't go £5m for Twine though.

[Midred]

Players play well in amongst certain other players. Move clubs and they either flourish or fall away. Buying all the "right" players doesn't necessarily make a successful team.

Obvious but true.

[Philly The Kid]

6 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

No where near a mil 

Fair enough, I was given to understand (Probably incorrectly) that a foreign club and it's @£300k and English club up to £1.5M.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

Fair enough, I was given to understand (Probably incorrectly) that a foreign club and it's @£300k and English club up to £1.5M.

I think had we have tried to go to tribunal with Burnley we’d have got more than what was settled.  But we’d have run the risk of the deal not happening at all, and back with the £300k from FIFA.  I’m only guessing but I imagine we sucked up a lower fee in exchange for assurance the deal would happen and some add-ons too.

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

I for one am really surprised, and in many ways, outraged, that our club didn't listen to random people on the internet and base their scouting network on that.

What about people our club have officially asked to scout for us?

Edited January 11 by Merrick's Marvels

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Where was Tomlin on your list 

In the kitchen I expect .

 

[RollsRoyce]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

£30-35m turnover isn't too bad...

High cost base too of course. I wouldn't go £5m for Twine though.

Turnover is vanity. Look at where the money comes from. The breakdown of the real incoming income, real money coming into the club, season ticket sales, POTD, tv income, and sponsorship. You get nowhere near your (their) numbers. We must be selling a lot of pies or selling intra-group to inflate turnover (and giving subsequent cost base cross charges). To lose £22m with a £30M T/O with a playing staff wage cost closer to £15m than £20m tells you everything. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

Turnover is vanity. Look at where the money comes from. The breakdown of the real incoming income, real money coming into the club, season ticket sales, POTD, tv income, and sponsorship. You get nowhere near your (their) numbers. We must be selling a lot of pies or selling intra-group to inflate turnover (and giving subsequent cost base cross charges). To lose £22m with a £30M T/O with a playing staff wage cost closer to £15m than £20m tells you everything. 

Well I'm just looking at it from an FFP context and what we could theoretically lose or spend, Bristol City Holdings the consolidator but non trading is my starting point.

We consolidate AGL into Bristol City Holdings alongside the club, all the concerts etc. Can more be done with the cost base- absolutely. Not just wages either.

It tells us a lot about the industry and the division in particular..I expect costs will be down this season. Maybe by £10m across the piece.

Sorry I missed the bit about the Playing staff but..13 months will of course artificially inflate. Swiss Ramble reckoned it added £5.3m to our losses.

Edited January 11 by Mr Popodopolous

[Ian M]

Here is the exact post where Harry was calling for him to be signed on a free.

[Ronnie Sinclair]

On 08/01/2024 at 19:27, GrahamC said:

Just a hunch but with Tufan, Carvalho, Philogene, Traore, Connolly & Delap all there I’m not sure that they all fit in.

Delap out for three months with a knee injury I see 

[petehinton]

Apparently will be movement on this one way or another before Tuesday. Clause in loan meant if he was to be recalled, it has to be by mid-Jan, so tomorrow. 
 

If true, and he’s still there on Tuesday, he won’t be signing for us this window 

[Loosey Boy]

9 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Apparently will be movement on this one way or another before Tuesday. Clause in loan meant if he was to be recalled, it has to be by mid-Jan, so tomorrow. 
 

If true, and he’s still there on Tuesday, he won’t be signing for us this window 

With Burnley apparently wanting £5m for him, think it’s safe to say that he will be staying where he is….

[Redrascal2]

36 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

With Burnley apparently wanting £5m for him, think it’s safe to say that he will be staying where he is….

Shame is if he is good enough we have more than enough money to buy him. But you are right too much for Lansdown and that is why we will never progress under his ownership.

[Shauntaylor85]

We won’t be getting proven quality. Clubs like Hull go for it, not gonna happen. 

[bcfc01]

I would think Manning is pushing hard to get him in.

But I suspect the fee Burnley want and the amount JL is willing to pay is too far apart even if both sides make compromises. This is where people like Ashton and Gould earn their money. Absolutely delighted to be proven wrong, but I just feel that we don't have anyone on board that can get the sort of players we need through the door.

 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

Shame is if he is good enough we have more than enough money to buy him. But you are right too much for Lansdown and that is why we will never progress under his ownership.

Is it the fee or is it the wages he may wish for.

Wonder what he us in at Burnley, what % Hull are paying.

On paper £5m fee on say a 2.5 year deal for simplicity is £1m in amortisation this year and £2m each subsequent year. £5m/3.5 is £0.714m and £1.428m respectively.

How high will and should we go though..we know TV money set to rise by £2-3m next year. £20k per week, more?

[Northern Red]

People wanting us to spend £5m on this lad are clearly wilfully ignorant of what we've had to go through for the last 3 years.

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is it the fee or is it the wages he may wish for.

Wonder what he us in at Burnley, what % Hull are paying.

On paper £5m fee on say a 2.5 year deal for simplicity is £1m in amortisation this year and £2m each subsequent year. £5m/3.5 is £0.714m and £1.428m respectively.

How high will and should we go though..we know TV money set to rise by £2-3m next year. £20k per week, more?

I would have thought he would have had a clause in his contract that he would have got a pay rise when they got promoted . 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

People wanting us to spend £5m on this lad are clearly wilfully ignorant of what we've had to go through for the last 3 years.

There is truth but the market has changed again this season. The summer saw a bit of a seachange in spending restraints across the division set against the last 2 years.

Do tend to agree but is a tough balancing act. If you don't participate can you be superseded a bit.

8 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I would have thought he would have had a clause in his contract that he would have got a pay rise when they got promoted . 

Yes in the way wages fall with relegation, a rise could be a factor with promotion. After all a big gap between PL TV cash and Year 1 Parachutes alone.

Edited January 14 by Mr Popodopolous

[Jose]

52 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

People wanting us to spend £5m on this lad are clearly wilfully ignorant of what we've had to go through for the last 3 years.

Has one person suggested it’d be good business? 
 

Not that I’ve seen loads of him, but he has done nothing at Hull or Burnley to suggest that half that fee would be warranted. 

[Loosey Boy]

Would definitely help us be more creative and knows how Manning plays……would prefer a perm deal, rather than a loan but not at the £5m rumoured price tag.

Guess we will know pretty quickly, based on a couple of press articles today, suggesting that Hull loan deal has a recall clause which is date specific - per @petehinton post earlier 

[steviestevieneville]

The bottom line is. If the morons running the club are actually serious about promotion then the level of player needed has to rise dramatically . A bit like hull are doing . Because we haven’t had a sustainable way of playing & bought into it for years like a Brighton/brentford or a Swansea of the past ten years . The only way we can do it is by spending again . Is twine that next level ? I’ve not watched him enough to have an opinion  . He’s not tearing the league up or being a driving force for hull from what I can see . It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if we panic & sign him though . Not with history the lansdowns have got . 

[alexukhc]

I know people are saying 5million is a lot, but today’s prices is it? Yes we should’ve got him free back then, but we didn’t, but had he joined us he’d prob wouldn’t be half the player is now, name a better player or players we could get for 5 million?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, alexukhc said:

I know people are saying 5million is a lot, but today’s prices is it? Yes we should’ve got him free back then, but we didn’t, but had he joined us he’d prob wouldn’t be half the player is now, name a better player or players we could get for 5 million?

Yes!

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

The bottom line is. If the morons running the club are actually serious about promotion then the level of player needed has to rise dramatically . A bit like hull are doing . Because we haven’t had a sustainable way of playing & bought into it for years like a Brighton/brentford or a Swansea of the past ten years . The only way we can do it is by spending again . Is twine that next level ? I’ve not watched him enough to have an opinion  . He’s not tearing the league up or being a driving force for hull from what I can see . It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if we panic & sign him though . Not with history the lansdowns have got . 

And that is a major deviation from the plan Nige, RG put in place, that was based on steady progress without needing the outlay / risky outlay.

Even if Twine is that good, he alone isn’t enough.

[steviestevieneville]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And that is a major deviation from the plan Nige, RG put in place, that was based on steady progress without needing the outlay / risky outlay.

Even if Twine is that good, he alone isn’t enough.

Exactly . That’s why I’m so pissed off still. It’s not about nige being sacked as such, the way he was  yes. It’s treating us like ******* idiots . Just feed them some bullshit . Without that long sustainable plan , that we’ve never achieved under the lansdowns through their (bored of saying it) lack of football knowledge means we have  to rip it up again . That reason is because of the pressure they’ve put themselves & manning under with the ridiculous press conferences & they’ve left themselves nowhere to go . It’s 100% on them . They can’t sack manning in a years time , blame him after not backing him & it’s obvious from their statements that we expect to be competing top end. The only way short term to do that is spending . If not this month then it’s going to be a hell of a lot of turmoil in the summer. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Edit.

Edited January 14 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Edit.

Edited January 14 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Sorry wrong thread, this was meant for the Pring one.

[BCFCGav]

Nixon reiterates on Twitter a point raised by some posters, next few days or not at all.

If the price is 5 million… it just isn’t worth it, right?

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Nixon reiterates on Twitter a point raised by some posters, next few days or not at all.

If the price is 5 million… it just isn’t worth it, right?

Not many are worth that imo . As I said before though. The brains trust have backed themselves into a corner really . Want / should apparently be competing top end , now . We need much better players to do that. It wouldn’t be the first time we’ve made a panic signing . 

[BCFCGav]

5 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Not many are worth that imo . As I said before though. The brains trust have backed themselves into a corner really . Want / should apparently be competing top end , now . We need much better players to do that. It wouldn’t be the first time we’ve made a panic signing . 

The debacle of early November was always going to have long reaching consequences. Be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Shuffle]

Could Sykes at number 10 be worth a shout as skilful, fast & scored a few.  He’s technically very good and much as I love Knight he’s so not a 10 & this frees him up to drop deeper where he will be even better. Surely it’s easier and less money to sign a Right sided forward/winger than a 10?

[Cov 77]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

Nixon reiterates on Twitter a point raised by some posters, next few days or not at all.

If the price is 5 million… it just isn’t worth it, right?

Where does 5 million come from, looked back they only paid 4 million a couple of years ago and frankly has done next to nothing for them and is now on loan at a championship club , not sure it will be anything like that 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Cov 77 said:

Where does 5 million come from, looked back they only paid 4 million a couple of years ago and frankly has done next to nothing for them and is now on loan at a championship club , not sure it will be anything like that 

That's their value, worse comes to worst they can use him again in the Championship. 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

£5M for a player who had one outstanding season in L1. I'll pass. 

[JoeAman08]

coming here on loan

Edited January 14 by JoeAman08

[johnheadbcfc]

3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

coming here on loan

Same thing I've heard 

 

[JoeAman08]

Just now, johnheadbcfc said:

Same thing I've heard 

 

️

[marcofisher]

Our season is going nowhere. Wouldn’t we be better investing in the summer than spending enormous loan fees now?

[Jose]

Posted on their forum too. 

[JoeAman08]

3 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Our season is going nowhere. Wouldn’t we be better investing in the summer than spending enormous loan fees now?

4 points off playoffs. I think you are probably right but nice to send the message to the squad we will upgrade when we can. 

3 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Our season is going nowhere. Wouldn’t we be better investing in the summer than spending enormous loan fees now?

4 points off playoffs. I think you are probably right but nice to send the message to the squad we will upgrade when we can. 

[marcofisher]

Just now, JoeAman08 said:

4 points off playoffs. I think you are probably right but nice to send the message to the squad we will upgrade when we can. 

4 points off playoffs. I think you are probably right but nice to send the message to the squad we will upgrade when we can. 

It’s only a temporary upgrade to the squad though if there is no option to buy. 

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Jose said:

Posted on their forum too. 

I won't believe it until Tinnion DMs somebody it's on the OS.

[Sniper]

6 minutes ago, Jose said:

Posted on their forum too. 

Not sure on their source for this but looks like it maybe happening?

https://www.not606.com/threads/january-transfer-thread.409767/page-152

[JoeAman08]

6 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

It’s only a temporary upgrade to the squad though if there is no option to buy. 

I imagine we’ll protect ourselves with some sort of option if he is a stellar fit. 

3 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Not sure on their source for this but looks like it maybe happening?

https://www.not606.com/threads/january-transfer-thread.409767/page-152

Very good source it is happening

[marcofisher]

Just now, JoeAman08 said:

I imagine we’ll protect ourselves with some sort of option if he is a stellar fit. 

I’m not convinced with the figures being quoted! 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Could Sykes at number 10 be worth a shout as skilful, fast & scored a few.  He’s technically very good and much as I love Knight he’s so not a 10 & this frees him up to drop deeper where he will be even better. Surely it’s easier and less money to sign a Right sided forward/winger than a 10?

It’s where he was gonna play predominantly when signed, being groomed to compete with Andi Weimann.  He’s played there before.

Ive got to say, I’m struggling to work out his Manning really wants us to set up.  Which makes recruitment hard to second guess.

[Lrrr]

[JoeAman08]

3 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

I’m not convinced with the figures being quoted! 

It may be high but better to have a figure where he is ours if we deem it right I guess. 

[Sniper]

3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I imagine we’ll protect ourselves with some sort of option if he is a stellar fit. 

Very good source it is happening

Are Hull paying a loan fee? I take it we will be? I'd imagine the Hull fans will be pretty narked off about this.