Offside Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Apologies if this has already been posted, but I’ve just seen this colourised picture on fb. Fascinating. I think it’s Billy Wedlock who is standing on the 6 yard line. 8 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Chap on the line looks to be wearing gloves. Could he be the keeper? Don’t think it was mandatory for keepers to wear an alternate colour in this era, but could be wrong. Think they were usually denoted by wearing a cap of sorts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, OddBallJim said: Chap on the line looks to be wearing gloves. Could he be the keeper? Don’t think it was mandatory for keepers to wear an alternate colour in this era, but could be wrong. Think they were usually denoted by wearing a cap of sorts? Good spot, not obvious it could be anyone else. Also interesting the officials? you can see. Already presumably looks like one to see if the ball has crossed the line, two ‘lineman’ on the same side? Decent crowd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, cityexile said: Good spot, not obvious it could be anyone else. Also interesting the officials? you can see. Already presumably looks like one to see if the ball has crossed the line, two ‘lineman’ on the same side? Decent crowd! Yes looks to be a chap in a dark coloured uniform, and then potentially another official in a red shirt? Wasn’t the offside rule quite different in this era also? That might explain it… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Helluva image to capture the ball hitting the back of the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Here's the original image. You can expand it and get a clearer view. 71,406 in attendance. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Looked offside. Did VAR check it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Super said: Looked offside. Did VAR check it? I have looked again and come to the conclusion our goalie is wearing the white shorts on the far touchline. Was waiting for the break. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, spudski said: Here's the original image. You can expand it and get a clearer view. 71,406 in attendance. I’m guessing that Billy Wedlock is the player central on the edge of the six yard box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, eardun said: I’m guessing that Billy Wedlock is the player central on the edge of the six yard box Certainly could be. Hard to make out. Similar stature though. He also had white laces that day. http://www.khandallah.co.uk/Charlie_Roberts/1909_FA_CUP.html Edited August 16, 2023 by spudski 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, spudski said: Certainly could be. Hard to make out. Similar stature though. He also had white laces that day. Yes does look like him - clearer on the black and white version, although the colour is a collector’s item given our blue shirts! What a day out that must have been! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcredandwhite Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, Super said: Looked offside. Did VAR check it? It would have taken too long to rush the film to the chemist, develop it and then play it back via a projector for the 4th official back in those days. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Random fact from the report of the match…’After the match, the Manchester United mascot, a goat named Billy, drank too much champagne and died of alcohol poisoning. His head was preserved and hangs on the wall of the Manchester United museum at Old Trafford.’ 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, cityexile said: Random fact from the report of the match…’After the match, the Manchester United mascot, a goat named Billy, drank too much champagne and died of alcohol poisoning. His head was preserved and hangs on the wall of the Manchester United museum at Old Trafford.’ His head was preserved in champagne presumably! Also ironic that we were wearing blue before Rovers, and in a big match at that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never to the dark side Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 spudski in the photo it says man utd against bolton,is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Never to the dark side said: spudski in the photo it says man utd against bolton,is that correct? No John, it's Utd v City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Anyone know how many City fans were actually there? Guess back then it was pretty much all train travel and can’t imagine that affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, One Team said: Anyone know how many City fans were actually there? Guess back then it was pretty much all train travel and can’t imagine that affordable. In addition to the regular services, the GWR ran eighteen "specials" to get all the City fans to London. Some started at Temple Meads, others at Ashton Gate. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS3City Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Pardon my ignorance but Billy Wedlock certainly isn't fat in those images. Would it be right to say he gained weight (and hence the "Fatty" label) later in his career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 In the 1980s there was an article in the Evening Post telling the story of someone well into their 90s who attended the final. Iirc he went up by train and had a snack or cup of tea at a Lyon's Corner House. His memory had played tricks with him because he said in the article that Bristol City played in white, when that was obviously Manchester United. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, One Team said: Anyone know how many City fans were actually there? Guess back then it was pretty much all train travel and can’t imagine that affordable. Back in the day I think trains were a lot more affordable than they are now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, BS3City said: Pardon my ignorance but Billy Wedlock certainly isn't fat in those images. Would it be right to say he gained weight (and hence the "Fatty" label) later in his career? Wedlock wasn't really fat at all, as you say, more short and squat. Lee Tomlin wasn't fat when he played for us but he attracted all sorts of jokes about his weight. Wedlock was also nicknamed 'The India Rubber Man' due to his ability to be quickly in defence or helping the attack. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 We used a 235 formation Close up of crowd Great picture of our win against Derby at Stamford Bridge in the Semi...big crowd. Billy Wedlock was 5'5" and 10 stone 6. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, 22A said: In addition to the regular services, the GWR ran eighteen "specials" to get all the City fans to London. Some started at Temple Meads, others at Ashton Gate. Yes, go in the Central Library, and read the archive of old local papers, @Merrick's Marvels has probably done as much of this as most on here. Plenty went on trains. I remember reading something about us playing a cup game - then as now, we had a "big day out/up fer the Cup" following for a big cup game - at QPR and an account of fellas arriving by train in London and getting something to eat, and likely getting ripped off by some cockernee wide boys. Wonderful to step back in time, in the Central library, especially to that era when we were one of the most happening/dazzling clubs in the country, for a short while. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 14 hours ago, Offside said: Apologies if this has already been posted, but I’ve just seen this colourised picture on fb. Fascinating. I think it’s Billy Wedlock who is standing on the 6 yard line. Pic taken by @Robbored 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 The height thing is really interesting. My great grandmother (BS3, of course) took in a lodger to make ends meet after her husband died young & he lived to a ripe old age in a house in Marksbury Rd. This old boy fought in WW1 (he had a shrapnel wound that caused one of his arms to tremor all of his life) & I remember visiting him as a little kid with my parents in about 1970 & he told me his nickname on the docks where he worked was “Sky” because he was so tall, we had all his paperwork when he passed on & he was 6ft exactly. In the 1910s and 1920s with nutrition & poverty being what they were he must have seemed like a giant. On a related note to the game I still have a pin badge showing the City side from around this era that we found when my Grandad (also BS3) passed away, I must find out more about it.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 A few images from the internet. Made hard work of getting to the Final didn't we. Thought I had some old cigarette cards , but mine are later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 28 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: A few images from the internet. Made hard work of getting to the Final didn't we. Thought I had some old cigarette cards , but mine are later. Looks like we have always been better being away and playing counterattacking football. :). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bristol Oil Services said: Yes, go in the Central Library, and read the archive of old local papers, @Merrick's Marvels has probably done as much of this as most on here. Plenty went on trains. I remember reading something about us playing a cup game - then as now, we had a "big day out/up fer the Cup" following for a big cup game - at QPR and an account of fellas arriving by train in London and getting something to eat, and likely getting ripped off by some cockernee wide boys. Wonderful to step back in time, in the Central library, especially to that era when we were one of the most happening/dazzling clubs in the country, for a short while. Well, I will be posting here eventually. Right now though, I'm still trying to get my head round the suggestion on another thread that our owner has been meddling in our transfer negotiations. I don't know whether I'm dumbfounded or unsurprised at the minute and am left wondering what our new CEO made of that - I mean, what the hell did he ever do during 25 years at Crystal Palace? Edited August 17, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 3 hours ago, 22A said: In addition to the regular services, the GWR ran eighteen "specials" to get all the City fans to London. Some started at Temple Meads, others at Ashton Gate. Taffy, Beanie and Shem etc ran some charabancs, quite a few Gullivers vans also made the trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacker Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 4 hours ago, 1960maaan said: A few images from the internet. Made hard work of getting to the Final didn't we. Thought I had some old cigarette cards , but mine are later. Glossop North End in the quarters! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, eardun said: I’m guessing that Billy Wedlock is the player central on the edge of the six yard box Yes it is. In the centre of the 6 yard box, just to the left of Wedlock as we look, is Joe Cottle our Left Back. 2 months before the Cup Final he won his only cap, playing for England against Northern Ireland in a Home International match. Billy Wedlock also played in that game. Imagine that - 2 current City players playing together for England, 2 City players born and bred in Bedminster as it happens. Local heroes, indeed. On retirement, both then ran pubs - Cottle 2 pubs on East Street long since gone, Wedlock the, er, Wedlock's! (The Star). What is it with our England internationals and pubs? Billy Jones, our first ever international, capped by England in 1901, ran The Barley Mow when he retired - a pub that hasn't changed much since 1901! But we digress. The City player nearest the foreground, with his back to us, is likely to be our Right Back and tallest player, Archie Annan. The other 3 in the 6 yard box are likely to be our Half Backs ("midfield") - Wedlock played in the centre with Pat Hanlin and Arthur Spear (leaning over) either side of him. Our 2 players furthest to the right are possibly Inside Forwards - Bob Hardy nearest, Andy Burton on the edge of the area. Harry Clay is in goal, as he was for over a decade. We were missing 2 key players for the Cup Final - Reuben Marr from midfield and no. 9 Willis Rippon, who scored regularly in this Cup run, most notably 2 penalties in the semi-final against Derby (one in the 90th minute). Heroes all ! Edited August 17, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudgun Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Meanwhile in 1909 the gas were playing in the downs league and few would've ever heard of them. The blue few, some things never change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Slacker said: Glossop North End in the quarters! That sparked my interest too - smallest town to have played in the English top flight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossop_North_End_A.F.C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Yes it is. In the centre of the 6 yard box, just to the left of Wedlock as we look, is Joe Cottle our Left Back. 2 months before the Cup Final he won his only cap, playing for England against Northern Ireland in a Home International match. Billy Wedlock also played in that game. Imagine that - 2 current City players playing together for England, 2 City players born and bred in Bedminster as it happens. Local heroes, indeed. On retirement, both then ran pubs - Cottle 2 pubs on East Street long since gone, Wedlock the, er, Wedlock's! (The Star). What is it with our England internationals and pubs? Billy Jones, our first ever international, capped by England in 1901, ran The Barley Mow when he retired - a pub that hasn't changed much since 1901! But we digress. The City player nearest the foreground, with his back to us, is likely to be our Right Back and tallest player, Archie Annan. The other 3 in the 6 yard box are likely to be our Half Backs ("midfield") - Wedlock played in the centre with Pat Hanlin and Arthur Spear (leaning over) either side of him. Our 2 players furthest to the right are possibly Inside Forwards - Bob Hardy nearest, Andy Burton on the edge of the area. Harry Clay is in goal, as he was for over a decade. We were missing 2 key players for the Cup Final - Reuben Marr from midfield and no. 9 Willis Rippon, who scored regularly in this Cup run, most notably 2 penalties in the semi-final against Derby (one in the 90th minute). Heroes all ! Thank you. Fascinating. And I never appreciated we had two players playing for England in the same match. What an era that must have been. Runners up in the league too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 This thread prompted me to see what City say about our history on their website. Tony Pulis gets a mention but Alan Dicks doesn’t https://www.bcfc.co.uk/club-history/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chowie Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Yes it is. In the centre of the 6 yard box, just to the left of Wedlock as we look, is Joe Cottle our Left Back. 2 months before the Cup Final he won his only cap, playing for England against Northern Ireland in a Home International match. Billy Wedlock also played in that game. Imagine that - 2 current City players playing together for England, 2 City players born and bred in Bedminster as it happens. Local heroes, indeed. On retirement, both then ran pubs - Cottle 2 pubs on East Street long since gone, Wedlock the, er, Wedlock's! (The Star). What is it with our England internationals and pubs? Billy Jones, our first ever international, capped by England in 1901, ran The Barley Mow when he retired - a pub that hasn't changed much since 1901! But we digress. The City player nearest the foreground, with his back to us, is likely to be our Right Back and tallest player, Archie Annan. The other 3 in the 6 yard box are likely to be our Half Backs ("midfield") - Wedlock played in the centre with Pat Hanlin and Arthur Spear (leaning over) either side of him. Our 2 players furthest to the right are possibly Inside Forwards - Bob Hardy nearest, Andy Burton on the edge of the area. Harry Clay is in goal, as he was for over a decade. We were missing 2 key players for the Cup Final - Reuben Marr from midfield and no. 9 Willis Rippon, who scored regularly in this Cup run, most notably 2 penalties in the semi-final against Derby (one in the 90th minute). Heroes all ! Do you happen to know the Hotel and/or Pub Sam Hollis ran? He left in March 1905, and managed a hotel between 1905 and 1911, having previously run a pub between 1899 and 1909. He took over as Bristol City manager for the third time in January 1911, and oversaw the club's relegation from the First Division back to the Second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) @Merrick's Marvels This is the badge I’m referring to, I’ve taken this photo on my phone & so if I remember we can discuss tomorrow. If anyone else can shed any light on it I’d be grateful. Edited August 18, 2023 by GrahamC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 I've got a copy of the 1909 cup final ' programme'...easy to buy online. However...this is a rare find. The programme for our semi final game played at Stamford Bridge. When were known as the Bristol Babes. They had some weird humour back then. https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/graham-budd-auctions-ltd/catalogue-id-srgrah10038/lot-06e26ffb-3a56-4053-831e-aef30136e081 The original 1909 cup final ' programme' set a world record. https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2012-05-15/bristol-city-programme-could-fetch-20-000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: @Merrick's Marvels This is the badge I’m referring to, I’ve taken this photo on my phone & so if I remember we can discuss tomorrow. If anyone else can shed any light on it I’d be grateful. Wow. That's old! Looks like Sam Hollis in the suit, standing to the Left - he was manager 1897-99, 1901-05, 1911-13. No Wedlock there by the looks of it, so it's pre-1905. So between 1901-1905. (Can't be 1897-99 as that's Ashton Gate and we didn't start playing there until amalgamating with Bedminster in 1900.) Harry Thickett played Right Back for us for 1 season 1904-05 before taking over as manager in 1905. Can't see him there, so it's probabaly pre 1904. So 1901 - 1904. Look forward to having a closer look tomorrow Edited August 18, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 13 hours ago, chowie said: Do you happen to know the Hotel and/or Pub Sam Hollis ran? He left in March 1905, and managed a hotel between 1905 and 1911, having previously run a pub between 1899 and 1909. He took over as Bristol City manager for the third time in January 1911, and oversaw the club's relegation from the First Division back to the Second. Could always ask Alan Curbishley...he'd probably know..... In all seriousness I do love these old photos and to be fair old photos in general. Fascinating to see the changing look of everyday things, whether it be clothes, football supporters, teams, grounds, transport etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 23 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Wow. That's old! Looks like Sam Hollis in the suit, standing to the Left - he was manager 1897-99, 1901-05, 1911-13. No Wedlock there by the looks of it, so it's pre-1905. So between 1901-1905. Harry Thickett played Right Back for us for 1 season 1904-05 before taking over as manager in 1905. Can't see him there, so it could be pre 1904 in fact. Look forward to having a closer look tomorrow From what I can see I think the first kit to have a badge on it was 1900-1903, which could narrow it down further. I couldn't see a squad picture in any timescale that matched it though.... Lots of big bushy Magnum PI moustaches there, so this timescale would also fit with turn of the century. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) Thank god for The Wayback Machine! I was fortunate enough to be part of the collaboration between the Supporters Club and Trust and the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) "1909 Replayed" centenary celebration - in April 2009 - at The Crystal Palace Athletics Stadium. The website still exists in part here: http://web.archive.org/web/20090417052838/http://www.1909replayed.org/home.html We had a wonderful day, despite a 2-1 defeat. Enjoy! Edited August 18, 2023 by Curr Avon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 15 minutes ago, Steve Watts said: From what I can see I think the first kit to have a badge on it was 1900-1903, which could narrow it down further. I couldn't see a squad picture in any timescale that matched it though.... Lots of big bushy Magnum PI moustaches there, so this timescale would also fit with turn of the century. That's a good spot. Definitely badges on those shirts, so that will help the chaps narrow down the year on the badge. I also noted whilst going down a rabbit hole, a few photographs of City team photos online, from pre 1905 of us wearing white shirts. Seems White shirts was our away colour back then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 16 minutes ago, Curr Avon said: Thank god for The Wayback Machine! I was fortunate enough to be part of the collaboration between the Supporters Club and Trust and the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) "1909 Replayed" centenary celebration - in April 2009 - at The Crystal Palace Athletics Stadium. The website still exists in part here: http://web.archive.org/web/20090417052838/http://www.1909replayed.org/home.html We had a wonderful day, despite a 2-1 defeat. Enjoy! Getty images has loads of photos from that day if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: @Merrick's Marvels This is the badge I’m referring to, I’ve taken this photo on my phone & so if I remember we can discuss tomorrow. If anyone else can shed any light on it I’d be grateful. I cannot see Harry Clay the goalkeeper on that picture. The only one who looks a bit like him is the player with the ball between his feet. The picture is a bit fuzzy so I wouldn't swear on it not being him. The relevance to Clay not being in the picture is that he joined City in November 1901 and was first choice keeper pretty much thereafter during the rise to the First Division and until the drop back to the Second. Team photos were obviously taken at the start of the season in August/September. Back then the football season started in September. So with all the other evidence etc I would plump for this being the 1901-02 season team pic taken in August-September 1901 two months before the arrival of Clay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 On 16/08/2023 at 22:13, Super said: Looked offside. Did VAR check it? Unfortunately, no one stood still enough for 10minutes for the camera to work... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, chowie said: Do you happen to know the Hotel and/or Pub Sam Hollis ran? He left in March 1905, and managed a hotel between 1905 and 1911, having previously run a pub between 1899 and 1909. He took over as Bristol City manager for the third time in January 1911, and oversaw the club's relegation from the First Division back to the Second. Yes, it was called The Southville Hotel, better known to us - until turned into flats recently - as The Imp. No. 2, Alpha Street, Southville. Hollis was the licensee from 1906 to 1911. The bit you've quoted above which says "having previously run a pub between 1899 and 1909" is obviously wrong. Good old Wikipedia! I reckon this should be 1901 not 1909 - which would tie in with his first and second spells as manager. I don't know what pub this was but will keep digging! The book by Leigh Edwards and David Woods 'Bristol City FC The First 100 Years' also states he was a local publican after leaving City for a 3rd time in 1913 and remained so until his death in 1942. Need to find out about that, too! A final note on Hollis: He was born in Nottingham - same as our current manager. He was one of the best managers we've had - same as our current manager. He left in 1899 because of interference from the directors and conditions they attached to the offer of a new contract - er, same as our current manager????? Let's hope not! He joined local rivals (Bedminster) but lost his job when the two clubs amalgamated - I think we can safely say this one won't be happening. History might repeat itself in one other way though: The work Nottingham-born Hollis did laid the foundations for a new manager to come in and lead us into the top flight of English football in 1906, Championship runners-up in 1907, FA Cup finalists in 1909. What does fate have in store for Nottingham-born Nigel Pearson? Like at Leicester, will it be someone else taking all the glory? Let's hope not! Edited August 18, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 Further to my previous post, in other team photos of the period it's the captain who is holding the ball. Clay wasn't the captain so I would pretty well rule out the player who looks slightly like Clay. So would plump for 1901-02 season pic taken at the start of that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 1901-03 we wore a badge, then not again until 1949 (when the robin looks similar to Norwich's canary). http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Bristol_City/Bristol_City.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, handsofclay said: Further to my previous post, in other team photos of the period it's the captain who is holding the ball. Clay wasn't the captain so I would pretty well rule out the player who looks slightly like Clay. So would plump for 1901-02 season pic taken at the start of that season. Yes. My first reaction, before looking at it closely, was this might be the 1901-02 team simply because that was our first season in the Football League - and this would seem to be an appropriate occasion to mark by producing a pin badge. As for Clay - I think he is there - take a look at the middle row, 2nd in from the right (in front of the chap who's been distracted by the Away End!) - it's a young looking Clay for sure (he'd have been 20) but I reckon that's him. He signed in November, debuted in December, so the photo would have to be mid-season but I still reckon that's him and 1901-02 is a strong possibility. The badge detectives are helping to narrow it down to this season too. Edited August 18, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 39 minutes ago, spudski said: Getty images has loads of photos from that day if you are interested. Very interested thanks Spudski. I haven't seen them for a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Yes. My first reaction, before looking at it closely, was this might be the 1901-02 team simply because that was our first season in the Football League - and this would seem to be an appropriate occasion to mark by producing a pin badge. As for Clay - I think he is there - take a look at the middle row, 2nd in from the right (in front of the chap who's been distracted by the Away End!) - it's a young looking Clay for sure (he'd have been 20) but I reckon that's him. He signed in November, debuted in December, so the photo would have to be mid-season but I still reckon that's him and 1901-02 is a strong possibility. The badge detectives are helping to narrow it down to this season too. Yes that could be him. The pics I have generally of him he is in his mid twenties but the one in this pic could be of a younger, 20 year old Clay with a bushy moustache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, handsofclay said: Yes that could be him. The pics I have generally of him he is in his mid twenties but the one in this pic could be of a younger, 20 year old Clay with a bushy moustache. I've got some memorabilia at home (not purchased on the day by myself, you understand ). At 5' 9", Clay was the second tallest on our team that day. Only Annan, our right back at 5ft 10" was taller. Most of the team were 5' 6"/5' 7". Wedlock was 5' 5". JD would've loved to have played back then. Man U were cheating a bit, I think by having a goalie who was 6' 1.5" and lighter than ours. In fact, they were a considerably larger team than us. Somethings never change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 15 hours ago, eardun said: Thank you. Fascinating. And I never appreciated we had two players playing for England in the same match. What an era that must have been. Runners up in the league too. Fascinating era, and tantalisingly out of reach to us now with just these few fragments of memories, pictures, memorabilia etc. How Bristol City that our greatest team/era was before television, before radio, and so little to remember it by. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chowie Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 7 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Yes, it was called The Southville Hotel, better known to us - until turned into flats recently - as The Imp. No. 2, Alpha Street, Southville. Hollis was the licensee from 1906 to 1911. The bit you've quoted above which says "having previously run a pub between 1899 and 1909" is obviously wrong. Good old Wikipedia! I reckon this should be 1901 not 1909 - which would tie in with his first and second spells as manager. I don't know what pub this was but will keep digging! The book by Leigh Edwards and David Woods 'Bristol City FC The First 100 Years' also states he was a local publican after leaving City for a 3rd time in 1913 and remained so until his death in 1942. Need to find out about that, too! A final note on Hollis: He was born in Nottingham - same as our current manager. He was one of the best managers we've had - same as our current manager. He left in 1899 because of interference from the directors and conditions they attached to the offer of a new contract - er, same as our current manager????? Let's hope not! He joined local rivals (Bedminster) but lost his job when the two clubs amalgamated - I think we can safely say this one won't be happening. History might repeat itself in one other way though: The work Nottingham-born Hollis did laid the foundations for a new manager to come in and lead us into the top flight of English football in 1906, Championship runners-up in 1907, FA Cup finalists in 1909. What does fate have in store for Nottingham-born Nigel Pearson? Like at Leicester, will it be someone else taking all the glory? Let's hope not! Nice, I have a feeling it maybe The Albert, (possibly Prince of Wales for 1913 onwards) as he signed my Great Grandfather and that’s where the family used to drink back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 37 minutes ago, chowie said: Nice, I have a feeling it maybe The Albert, (possibly Prince of Wales for 1913 onwards) as he signed my Great Grandfather and that’s where the family used to drink back in the day. Good stuff Yes, signed him for Bedminster in 1899. They finished above both City and Rovers that season as Bristol's top professional club, before amalgamating with City in the summer of 1900. Their last ever home game was a 4-1 win against QPR at Ashton Gate. Your great grandfather opened the scoring on 2 minutes, described in the history books as "a fast drive" - whatever that is, a Walshy piledriver perhaps? Here's to him. Cheers! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 23 hours ago, chowie said: Do you happen to know the Hotel and/or Pub Sam Hollis ran? He left in March 1905, and managed a hotel between 1905 and 1911, having previously run a pub between 1899 and 1909. He took over as Bristol City manager for the third time in January 1911, and oversaw the club's relegation from the First Division back to the Second. There's a website called bristolslostpubs.com Takes a bit of wading through, especially on a Friday night after a pint or two! But... I've found a record of Hollis running 2 pubs in the Old Market area between 1914 - 1928 and 1934 -1938. And talking of great grandfathers, just a stone's throw from where mine worked as a Wheelwright! I'll keep looking for him running pubs in BS3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 My grandfather, who was at the match, always said the England centre forward (Man U) got the better, on the day, of the England centre half (Wedlock) and that in the end settled the game. PS He never lost his admiration for Wedlock, but he lived to see Atyeo in his heyday and those two were his all time City greats. I only saw Atyeo and know no one playing for City who can compare, save Billy Wedlock whom I wish I’d seen play 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 On 16/08/2023 at 21:27, Offside said: Apologies if this has already been posted, but I’ve just seen this colourised picture on fb. Fascinating. I think it’s Billy Wedlock who is standing on the 6 yard line. That was 1909, but in 1902 the pitch markings were different as seen here. This is the 1902 F.A. Cup final-replay between Sheffield United and Southampton, at Crystal Palace. It was the last final to be played with Victorian pitch markings...The six-yard-box, we know today, consisted of two semi-circles. Penalties were taken from anywhere along the solid white 12-yard line. The remaining players had to stand behind the intermittent white line as the kick was taken. Here is Billy Barnes scoring the winning goal, in a 2-1 victory, for Sheffield United (Att: 33,068) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, 22A said: That was 1909, but in 1902 the pitch markings were different as seen here. This is the 1902 F.A. Cup final-replay between Sheffield United and Southampton, at Crystal Palace. It was the last final to be played with Victorian pitch markings...The six-yard-box, we know today, consisted of two semi-circles. Penalties were taken from anywhere along the solid white 12-yard line. The remaining players had to stand behind the intermittent white line as the kick was taken. Here is Billy Barnes scoring the winning goal, in a 2-1 victory, for Sheffield United (Att: 33,068) Thanks. Interesting how pitch markings change. And 2023 saw the introduction of the random big black circle on one side! Edited November 5, 2023 by italian dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 1 hour ago, 22A said: That was 1909, but in 1902 the pitch markings were different as seen here. Was it the suffragette movement that insisted on having that pair of tits removed in front of the goal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 On 16/08/2023 at 22:32, bcfcredandwhite said: It would have taken too long to rush the film to the chemist, develop it and then play it back via a projector for the 4th official back in those days. That's about the same amount of time as VAR takes today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 On 18/08/2023 at 11:40, Red-Robbo said: Unfortunately, no one stood still enough for 10minutes for the camera to work... Thanks, that reminds me. Chris Martin's last stand will be probably be at the Rigormorial Ground. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedred31 Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 Growing up during the 1970’s I recall periodic Points West stories along the lines of ‘clearing out grandads house and found a 1909 programme in a drawer and now it will auction for hundreds as it was United’s first final and some of fans have a lot of money etc’. ( I’m not a programme expert but I think there were several versions and the glossy one goes for big money.) As an aside, my g grandfather also died at Arras- I gather the North Somerset Yeomanry were involved and shelled badly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 I went to the brilliant National Museum of Football in Manchester last month, and one of the items on display is an actual Man United shirt from that 1909 FA Cup Final. As well as this interesting football programme... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said: I went to the brilliant National Museum of Football in Manchester last month, and one of the items on display is an actual Man United shirt from that 1909 FA Cup Final. As well as this interesting football programme... It's a good museum to visit. Here's a pic of an original 1909 City shirt from the final. Sold for £13k. Open to correction but I was told Scott Davidson bought it. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi2-prod.bristolpost.co.uk%2Fincoming%2Farticle35411.ece%2FALTERNATES%2Fs1200c%2F583.jpg&tbnid=QV0W91u6EoAfkM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bristolpost.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Ffootball-news%2Frare-bristol-city-blue-shirt-62656&docid=yzml9bdmwiUajM&w=1200&h=1200&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey54 Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 My grandad travelled up for this match but was unable to get in. Allegedy climbed a wall and could see part of the pitch so watched the game from the wall. Just wish he'd got me a programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, harvey54 said: My grandad travelled up for this match but was unable to get in. Allegedy climbed a wall and could see part of the pitch so watched the game from the wall. Just wish he'd got me a programme. One set a world record £23,500. https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2012-05-15/bristol-city-programme-could-fetch-20-000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 3 hours ago, spudski said: It's a good museum to visit. Here's a pic of an original 1909 City shirt from the final. Sold for £13k. Open to correction but I was told Scott Davidson bought it. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi2-prod.bristolpost.co.uk%2Fincoming%2Farticle35411.ece%2FALTERNATES%2Fs1200c%2F583.jpg&tbnid=QV0W91u6EoAfkM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bristolpost.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Ffootball-news%2Frare-bristol-city-blue-shirt-62656&docid=yzml9bdmwiUajM&w=1200&h=1200&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F2 Wow, amazing! What's with the playing in blue? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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