FBC - do we want to get promoted?

[Davefevs]

@headhunter started a thread, based on the question….or are we happy to tread water in the Champ.

Yes, staying in the Championship is not what I aspire to…but that assumes we have some semblance of investment from whoever is in charge.  I want promotion, or at least a tilt at it, because it’s not easy to achieve.

If we are now expected to be sustainable / profit making, the answer is very different.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Davefevs

[Jeez]

Whilst it would be a fantastic moment to win promotion, I just want to see the club being a competitive force week in week out.

Sounds odd, but as we’ve haven’t troubled the playoffs since 2008 there’s not much basis that it’s going to happen anytime soon. 

Until we start seeing the consistency required for a promotion run, I wouldn’t even think about it.

[CodeRed]

Of course I'd like to see us in the PL - but competing. I was lucky, and old enough!, to see us win promotion in 1976 and by and large we were competitive. We didn't need to spend much back then and only bought Hunter, Cormack, and Garland during the first season for comparatively very modest fees. Later we signed Joe Royle etc but he was coming to the end of his career.

Today I'm not sure we have the recruitment structure, systems, and experienced DoF - not to mention the owners commitment - to invest wisely and kick on like Brighton Brentford and to some extent Wolves who relied heavily on Jorge Mendes to recruit. It pains me to say it but I think other than the desire to trouser the cash I don't think we have made any credible plans to push on should we - as SL said - get lucky.

[cidercity1987]

Same old backward Bristol City I am afraid.

We should aspire to be the next Brighton, very similar Cities in many ways and really harnessing the powerful local business community to our advantage.

Instead we are supposed to be grateful competing with little towns like Blackburn, non-entity places like Stoke and the 10th club of London or something

[Red-Robbo]

Actually, as you know, once you get there even if you aren't competitive, you've elevated to a different level if and when you're relegated. Some clubs do not feel the benefit but they have to be small in the first place or exceptionally badly (or corruptly) run. I'd like to see us there and that does mean the owner going for it rather than thinking he can maintain the only Championship club that balances the books. 

[Mr Chappers]

Or we could ‘go for it’ and take the well worn path to League One…

[Mr Popodopolous]

We currently have an abundance of caution and stagnation may result and the best manager we have had in SL's time, in my time (25 years)..the strategy now the FFP seem to have been cleared makes no sense.

Granted if we are happy to build a base for a while at Championship level but failing that...current strategy is excessively cautious and detrimental to our chances IMO.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Super]

I don't get why you would bother if you didn't want to get promoted.

[frenchred]

11 minutes ago, Mr Chappers said:

Or we could ‘go for it’ and take the well worn path to League One…

Really? 

Wow

[Bristol Oil Services]

7 minutes ago, Super said:

I don't get why you would bother if you didn't want to get promoted.

To build a "nest egg" ?

[Lack of Action Man]

25 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Actually, as you know, once you get there even if you aren't competitive, you've elevated to a different level if and when you're relegated. Some clubs do not feel the benefit but they have to be small in the first place or exceptionally badly (or corruptly) run. I'd like to see us there and that does mean the owner going for it rather than thinking he can maintain the only Championship club that balances the books. 

I’m in agreement with your view on this.

As I’ve alluded to in other threads as well, if we aren’t going to target promotion (I.e. the investment isn’t forthcoming to create a squad that is good enough), then I want us to do everything we can to make AG a fortress.
 

Even after some time to reflect I still feel our home form simply isn’t good enough regardless of our overall aims/ambitions in this division.

[Dr Balls]

Unlike the fans, I don’t think SL really wants promotion any more. Or certainly not at the cost that it’s likely to involve. Let’s be honest, football’s not really his game and he’s not that worried about achieving success as long as he’s not having to shell out enormous amounts. He’s got the ground and will soon have the rest of the “Sports Quarter”, which will be his legacy. I believe that the bricks, mortar and money still interest him more than football, especially since FFP and parachute payments really skewed promotion towards those who had been relegated from the Premier League. So I expect us to keep selling our best players and getting no closer to promotion for the foreseeable future, unless a new owner comes in.

 

[Simon bristol]

I think covid, and the failure and cost of the lj/ ashton years has killed off any love that SL once had, and paying out the wages for some of the shite weve signed must have been pretty galling, especially given the list of clubs who have gone past us and played in the premier leqgue.

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@headhunter started a thread, based on the question….or are we happy to tread water in the Champ.

Yes, staying in the Championship is not what I aspire to…but that assumes we have some semblance of investment from whoever is in charge.  I want promotion, or at least a tilt at it, because it’s not easy to achieve.

If we are now expected to be sustainable / profit making, the answer is very different.

FBC? Apologies if I’ve missed something here - but in the places I’ve worked FBC is full blood count - as I said, sorry Dave but what does it mean here?!

[CodeRed]

5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

FBC? Apologies if I’ve missed something here - but in the places I’ve worked FBC is full blood count - as I said, sorry Dave but what does it mean here?!

Forever Bristol City podcast ?

[Baba Yaga]

I think once the novelty wears off the prem might not be so enjoyable. Have spoken to fans of clubs like Swansea who have done what we would like and they are quite happy being back in this league as the days out are more enjoyable when there is a more realistic chance of getting a win.

However lets be honest it's a bit embarrassing that the club hasn't been in the top flight for so long, so yes of course the aim is getting into the prem one day and hopefully we can become an established PL side and get much more than the 9 seasons in the top division that the club has had in its entire history.

Actually getting there when you don't have parachute money or massive crowds will require patience and a bit of luck so I agree with SL in that respect, as far as I'm aware he isn't expecting the club to be profit making, and obviously that isn't realistic in the championship where the have nots like us have owners who bail out the clubs most seasons to the tune of at least 15 million.

[CodeRed]

29 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Unlike the fans, I don’t think SL really wants promotion any more. Or certainly not at the cost that it’s likely to involve. Let’s be honest, football’s not really his game and he’s not that worried about achieving success as long as he’s not having to shell out enormous amounts. He’s got the ground and will soon have the rest of the “Sports Quarter”, which will be his legacy. I believe that the bricks, mortar and money still interest him more than football, especially since FFP and parachute payments really skewed promotion towards those who had been relegated from the Premier League. So I expect us to keep selling our best players and getting no closer to promotion for the foreseeable future, unless a new owner comes in.

 

I think he'd like success but he's become disillusioned by the financial side of football, agent demands, the sheer costs of wages, the players that are happy to sign a lucrative contract and then equally happy to run that contract down (Diedhiou eg), the constant one way call on his pocket with - in his eyes - no sense of gratitude or loyalty in exchange for the sums he's shelling out. He alluded to this in an interview when asked what he'd learnt in football and he said " never fall in love with your players, in the end they think only of themselves despite the wages and support given to them".

[Mr Popodopolous]

33 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I think covid, and the failure and cost of the lj/ ashton years has killed off any love that SL once had, and paying out the wages for some of the shite weve signed must have been pretty galling, especially given the list of clubs who have gone past us and played in the premier leqgue.

Wonder if Scott going was the final disillusionment for him.

Compare his end of April interview he was buoyant, talking Scott staying, enjoying his football- playing with Conway and young academy players etc.

Whereas his most recent pronouncement he sounded pretty downbeat, resigned, nest egg and generally unenthused.

Scott was never likely to stay but I wonder if he believed he might.. 

[BasSavage88]

45 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I think covid, and the failure and cost of the lj/ ashton years has killed off any love that SL once had, and paying out the wages for some of the shite weve signed must have been pretty galling, especially given the list of clubs who have gone past us and played in the premier leqgue.

This plus our fans are mainly placid, there is no expectation of anything better than what we have.

[CodeRed]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wonder if Scott going was the final disillusionment for him.

Compare his end of April interview he was buoyant, talking Scott staying, enjoying his football- playing with Conway and young academy players etc.

Whereas his most recent pronouncement he sounded pretty downbeat, resigned, nest egg and generally unenthused.

Scott was never likely to stay but I wonder if he believed he might.. 

Not sure about that, he was determined to sell him, naming the £25m asking price in every interview, effectively saying 'come and buy him'. He was burned by previous players running down their contracts and his overwhelming priority was not to let £25m worth of asset turn to zero.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Not sure about that, he was determined to sell him, naming the £25m asking price in every interview, effectively saying 'come and buy him'. He was burned by previous players running down their contracts and his overwhelming priority was not to let £25m worth of asset turn to zero.

Some truth but he sounded quite hopeful in April..could have been false hope.

[Grey Fox]

Without at least the ambition to challenge for promotion, what is the point?

In my opinion , Uncle Steve has had enough of the unfairness of the parachute system, and therefore does not intend to fund the club to the same level as previously. He hopes to cover our annual running costs deficit through player sales. 
The current side are an average Championship team (won 3 , drawn 3, lost 3), who will probably end up somewhere between 10 th and 15th . Nigel Pearson can do better, so will walk, and the only other question for this season will be if it’s Bell , Knight or Conway that gets sold first.

To continue in this way can only mean that , at some point L1 will be the destination.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, Jeez said:

Whilst it would be a fantastic moment to win promotion, I just want to see the club being a competitive force week in week out.

Sounds odd, but as we’ve haven’t troubled the playoffs since 2008 there’s not much basis that it’s going to happen anytime soon. 

Until we start seeing the consistency required for a promotion run, I wouldn’t even think about it.

I think pretty much every game this season we have been competitive?

[Dr Balls]

10 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Without at least the ambition to challenge for promotion, what is the point?

In my opinion , Uncle Steve has had enough of the unfairness of the parachute system, and therefore does not intend to fund the club to the same level as previously. He hopes to cover our annual running costs deficit through player sales. 
The current side are an average Championship team (won 3 , drawn 3, lost 3), who will probably end up somewhere between 10 th and 15th . Nigel Pearson can do better, so will walk, and the only other question for this season will be if it’s Bell , Knight or Conway that gets sold first.

To continue in this way can only mean that , at some point L1 will be the destination.

Really hope that last paragraph doesjt turn out to be correct. He came, he spent an absolute fortune, and other than a run to a League Cup semi-final achieved nothing else, despite being backed more than any previous or subsequent manager.

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Same old backward Bristol City I am afraid.

We should aspire to be the next Brighton, very similar Cities in many ways and really harnessing the powerful local business community to our advantage.

Instead we are supposed to be grateful competing with little towns like Blackburn, non-entity places like Stoke and the 10th club of London or something

Stephen Lansdown is the owner right?

Unfortunately Bristol City Council is backward to a large extent, while Brightons was it became more helpful to the club. 
 

If you want anything in Bristol to compete and be better be careful who we all vote for!

[Jeez]

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think pretty much every game this season we have been competitive?

Exactly, this season is far more enjoyable & in games last season.

Quite happy to be a competitive force in this Div. Bit more consistency would good tho 

PL would be great but won’t get excited until we see some serious intent & direction from the club.

Stopped buying the clubs PL shtick a while ago.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Jeez said:

Exactly, this season is far more enjoyable & in games last season.

Quite happy to be a competitive force in this Div. Bit more consistency would good tho 

PL would be great but won’t get excited until we see some serious intent & direction from the club.

Stopped buying the clubs PL shtick a while ago.

This is fair, after the darkness some dawn with improvements year on year...first the shining light Scott, then Semenyo back from injury and yes that front 3 in 2021-22. We are in general a reasonable Championship side.

It is just very frustrating that we have slammed the breaks on when we now have a reasonable platform or at least some stability on which to build.

[W-S-M Seagull]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is fair, after the darkness some dawn with improvements year on year...first the shining light Scott, then Semenyo back from injury and yes that front 3 in 2021-22. We are in general a reasonable Championship side.

It is just very frustrating that we have slammed the breaks on when we now have a reasonable platform or at least some stability on which to build.

My mates have been taking the piss because we threw away a 2 goal lead but my response was that whilst it was disappointing to lose, I actually really enjoyed the game. The last two home games we have scored 6 goals at home and played some lovely attacking games football. We've come a very long way from the dark days of not even being able to get a shot on target at home. 

Maybe at 2-2 we could have shut up shop and played for the draw like we did at Leicester, but I much prefer that we went all out for the win. I'd rather lose trying to win than not trying to win at all. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wonder if Scott going was the final disillusionment for him.

Compare his end of April interview he was buoyant, talking Scott staying, enjoying his football- playing with Conway and young academy players etc.

Whereas his most recent pronouncement he sounded pretty downbeat, resigned, nest egg and generally unenthused.

Scott was never likely to stay but I wonder if he believed he might.. 

No, SL wanted to sell him.

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Not sure about that, he was determined to sell him, naming the £25m asking price in every interview, effectively saying 'come and buy him'. He was burned by previous players running down their contracts and his overwhelming priority was not to let £25m worth of asset turn to zero.

Yep, you can be resigned to selling a player, and then think - how can we work this to our advantage?

Instead, SL chose to sell him and not allow re-investment.  Nobody was saying Nige / Tins should be given all of it.  Nobody was even suggesting spending a half of it, a fifth of it.  Just one, maybe two astute signings.  SL made it more difficult.  Why?

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, SL wanted to sell him.

Yep, you can be resigned to selling a player, and then think - how can we work this to our advantage?

Instead, SL chose to sell him and not allow re-investment.  Nobody was saying Nige / Tins should be given all of it.  Nobody was even suggesting spending a half of it, a fifth of it.  Just one, maybe two astute signings.  SL made it more difficult.  Why?

Was he lying then, or at least being economical with the truth in the late April interview pre Burnley?

Setting out a negotiating stance?

Secretly resigned with a dash of wishful thinking?

Edited October 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Rocking Red Cyril]

FBC ?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

51 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, SL wanted to sell him.

Yep, you can be resigned to selling a player, and then think - how can we work this to our advantage?

Instead, SL chose to sell him and not allow re-investment.  Nobody was saying Nige / Tins should be given all of it.  Nobody was even suggesting spending a half of it, a fifth of it.  Just one, maybe two astute signings.  SL made it more difficult.  Why?

Interesting post Dave.

I am still not convinced SL really wanted to sell Scott. NP certainly wanted him to stay. And if SL truly wants PL football at the gate. Would it not make sense to keep Scott and give NP the dollars to build a team for promotion. That plan could of given Scott the reason to stay and help keep players I am sure will be next in the selling of talent list to stay also. But that plan needs lots of money in investment. I still feel NP feels let down that SL did not do more to keep Scott and give him a chance to take us to the promised land. I also think the SL - NP relationship is falling adrift. NP feels he has done as requested, still on championship, finances better off and now wants backing. And SL at present is not showing those actions. 

Is the club close to being sold?          Is NP ready to walk or will he be pushed ?

I not sure where it's all going at present. But surely just drifting to a mid table safe season cannot not be the aim. Can it ?

Just my thoughts

COYR

Edited October 1, 2023 by Rocking Red Cyril

[Wanderingred]

I accepted long ago that this club is never going to get promoted, so it’s honestly not something I’ve considered.

[Garland-sweden]

Players, NP and staf want top six and pl, sure big boss to. There are 23 other teams in this division, half of them or more also want top six. Disapointed some money from Scott did not invest in any player. Despite the loss vs Stoke, still think and hope we can be top six. 

[WWred]

Life is short i'd rather experience the extreme high and lows rather than steady mediocrity!

[Sir Geoff]

5 minutes ago, WWred said:

Life is short i'd rather experience the extreme high and lows rather than steady mediocrity!

Were you around during the 4th division days. Division two (Championship) mediocrity was a pipe dream. However a stint in the League above would be nice after many years of nothingness in the Championship.

[Henry]

I think the question from Ian Gay was ‘ would you rather stay in the Championship for 5 season or have a go at promotion?’

Err, I’ll have a go at at Promotion if that’s okay, Ian.

[Abraham Romanovich]

11 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

FBC? Apologies if I’ve missed something here - but in the places I’ve worked FBC is full blood count - as I said, sorry Dave but what does it mean here?!

I too had no idea what it meant, one of my pet hates is talking in acronyms 

FWIW

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, Grey Fox said:

To continue in this way can only mean that , at some point L1 will be the destination.

Where we will be a big fish in a small pond. Always there or thereabouts for promotion, some decent cup runs with a confident winning team and some big wins over the minnows. All at a fraction of the Championship budget .
I well remember the frustration of being turned over by the likes of Stockport County, Colchester, Gillingham etc though as we were always a big day out for them. Plus the players who were just here for a salary. 
Now that frustration has upgraded to the desire to be in the Prem as we watch other clubs like Luton , Brighton and even Blackpool have their days in the sun. 
I want us to get there even if it was just for a season to get the monkey off our backs and have the belief that it is possible. 

[Andy082005]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, SL wanted to sell him.

Yep, you can be resigned to selling a player, and then think - how can we work this to our advantage?

Instead, SL chose to sell him and not allow re-investment.  Nobody was saying Nige / Tins should be given all of it.  Nobody was even suggesting spending a half of it, a fifth of it.  Just one, maybe two astute signings.  SL made it more difficult.  Why?

And Scott very much wanted to go. I believe I have posted on here before there was pretty much an agreement in place between Scott and the club that if the price was right, we wouldn’t stand in his way 

Lansdown wants out. He wants to sell the club - and the only way he will get a decent deal is to pitch it as a club that is sustainable 

 

[38MC]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Was he lying then, or at least being economical with the truth in the late April interview pre Burnley?

Setting out a negotiating stance?

Secretly resigned with a dash of wishful thinking?

Steve Lansdown lie or be economical with the truth? I can't have that... 'what football makes it can keep'... oh wait

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Was he lying then, or at least being economical with the truth in the late April interview pre Burnley?

Setting out a negotiating stance?

Secretly resigned with a dash of wishful thinking?

It’s just the usual mixed messages from SL.

9 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Interesting post Dave.

I am still not convinced SL really wanted to sell Scott. NP certainly wanted him to stay. And if SL truly wants PL football at the gate. Would it not make sense to keep Scott and give NP the dollars to build a team for promotion. That plan could of given Scott the reason to stay and help keep players I am sure will be next in the selling of talent list to stay also. But that plan needs lots of money in investment. I still feel NP feels let down that SL did not do more to keep Scott and give him a chance to take us to the promised land. I also think the SL - NP relationship is falling adrift. NP feels he has done as requested, still on championship, finances better off and now wants backing. And SL at present is not showing those actions. 

Is the club close to being sold?          Is NP ready to walk or will he be pushed ?

I not sure where it's all going at present. But surely just drifting to a mid table safe season cannot not be the aim. Can it ?

Just my thoughts

COYR

All very good points, words and figures differ don’t they?

30 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

And Scott very much wanted to go. I believe I have posted on here before there was pretty much an agreement in place between Scott and the club that if the price was right, we wouldn’t stand in his way 

Lansdown wants out. He wants to sell the club - and the only way he will get a decent deal is to pitch it as a club that is sustainable 

 

Yep, don’t disagree on Scott. It’s all about the pulling up of the drawbridge after the sale where my frustration lies.

Yes, SL wants to sell, but he will struggle to find a buyer because he will price it (which bits he wants to sell or the whole thing) too high.  But nobody has a sustainable club at Champ level, so that doesn’t add up. The cost base is too high. The wage budget can’t really go any lower. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, 38MC said:

Steve Lansdown lie or be economical with the truth? I can't have that... 'what football makes it can keep'... oh wait

In fairness his full comment was and he referenced Covid in that as well.

When asked whether the fees from his potential sale will go straight back into the transfer kitty for Pearson to spend this summer, he added: "What football makes, football can spend. But it's got to make it and obviously going back to Covid, football couldn't make anything.

"There isn't a debt to be paid but we need to get the balance between the income and expenditure, all businesses need to do that."

One way to take that maybe he put in more than planned to keep us afloat during Covid. An element in cash flow terms of balancing it out over x years. Mixed messages for sure!

I don't agree with the current policy btw, I see it as penny wise pound foolish or another ridiculous swing or something like that unless it's part of a bigger picture ie fresh investment or ownership.

[bcfcredandwhite]

Everybody's different, but I definitely want us to get to the Premiership - because its the next level up. What's the point in a sport where you don't want to win?

In reality, IF we ever make it, its extremely unlikely that barring a 'Ted Lasso'-esq miracle we would ever bother the Prem top 6 - our aim would be simply to stave off relegation for as long as possible. However, we simply must aim for it IMHO. Even if we get dicked every week and come straight back down, it would be Bristol City with those hated parachute payments and we would have an advantage over the other teams trying to give it another go the following season. 

With very few exceptions (ie Leicester), the top 4-6 of the Prem consists of the same teams every season, but I'm sure if you ask fans of the other Prem sides that make up the numbers in that league if they would rather be in the Championship they would probably laugh and say no of course not. 

[headhunter]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

I think the question from Ian Gay was ‘ would you rather stay in the Championship for 5 season or have a go at promotion?’

Err, I’ll have a go at at Promotion if that’s okay, Ian.

Maybe there is a word missing from that sentence which perhaps should read "....have a REAL go at promotion".  I think the view of some is that amongst the many there is a degree of contentedness about plodding on as a mid-ranking Championship side. I would suggest based on recent events that is the measure of SL's ambition  at this time

@DaveFevs - thanks for starting this thread 

I'm not a fan of acronyms but if I do post a link to an episode of Forever Bristol City Podcast on here I would preface it FBC Podcast!

[Henry]

5 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Maybe there is a word missing from that sentence which perhaps should read "....have a REAL go at promotion".  I think the view of some is that amongst the many there is a degree of contentedness about plodding on as a mid-ranking Championship side. I would suggest based on recent events that is the measure of SL's ambition  at this time

@DaveFevs - thanks for starting this thread 

I'm not a fan of acronyms but if I do post a link to an episode of Forever Bristol City Podcast on here I would preface it FBC Podcast!

Makes the question even more daft then!

[Andy082005]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s just the usual mixed messages from SL.

All very good points, words and figures differ don’t they?

Yep, don’t disagree on Scott. It’s all about the pulling up of the drawbridge after the sale where my frustration lies.

Yes, SL wants to sell, but he will struggle to find a buyer because he will price it (which bits he wants to sell or the whole thing) too high.  But nobody has a sustainable club at Champ level, so that doesn’t add up. The cost base is too high. The wage budget can’t really go any lower. 

I worded it terrible - what I meant was, as sustainable as possible. You are spot on when you say there are no clubs at this level who are sustainable - but a club losing £40m a year is less appealing to a club losing say, £15-£20m 

That is the one real positive from the last two years. Where as on the pitch we may seem to be treading water - if the pitch we have made big strides around the overall cost of running the club . I’d even argue we have a better squad now than we did 3-4 years ago and will be paying a lot less for the privilege. Credit where credits due on that front 

Not sure if you have heard anything - but I was informed there had been a little interest from the U.S, but they only wanted the football side of things and not the whole of Bristol Sport 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Andy082005

[Clutton Caveman]

15 hours ago, Jeez said:

Whilst it would be a fantastic moment to win promotion, I just want to see the club being a competitive force week in week out.

Sounds odd, but as we’ve haven’t troubled the playoffs since 2008 there’s not much basis that it’s going to happen anytime soon. 

Until we start seeing the consistency required for a promotion run, I wouldn’t even think about it.

When I see Sheffield Utd and Burnley losing game after game I wonder unless you have owners with very deep pockets or parachute payments still valid, if the gap has become to great to bridge.

[GrahamC]

21 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Maybe there is a word missing from that sentence which perhaps should read "....have a REAL go at promotion".  I think the view of some is that amongst the many there is a degree of contentedness about plodding on as a mid-ranking Championship side. I would suggest based on recent events that is the measure of SL's ambition  at this time

@DaveFevs - thanks for starting this thread 

I'm not a fan of acronyms but if I do post a link to an episode of Forever Bristol City Podcast on here I would preface it FBC Podcast!

What does that mean though?

Ian used to bang on about us paying a couple of players huge money & they would make the difference.

Never once considering how that would go down in the dressing room & what if they didn’t work out.

We have paid players big wages (Kalas, Wells, Palmer!) in the past to exactly what effect?

I’m actually between both camps, we do need to give Pearson more funds but the REAL go for promotion idea is madness & after flirting with failing FFP recently, it would be far more likely to see us get a points deduction than go up.

[Spike]

I think for me it depends on when the promotion comes.

This season - no, not a chance I would want to see us go up as we don't have any Premier league quality players right now. If we're going to go up to the top flight then we need at least the spine of the team to be Premier league quality or our first season in the Premier League wouldn't be about surviving, it would be about trying not to be embarrassed. 

Luton are a good example, they didn't have many Premier League quality players, if any, when they went up and now they're one of the favourites to come back down and rightfully so. 

I think before we get promoted we need some players who can make that step up so that in the window we'd be able to add to them and potentially get at the very least a capable starting 11 at that level.

I think realistically we're far more likely to be a slow build, losing players who develop into Premier League quality players to keep us a float financially whilst we try to build up the squad to a better overall standard. 

I'd love to see us in the Premier League, but I don't see the point in getting there if we can't stay there for a season or two to build up our finances and squad strength so that if we do come back down we're in a position where we are at an advantage over a lot of teams as many teams are over us right now. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Bit early to judge Burnley IMO. Their fixture list has been quite lopsided.

Both Manchester clubs at home, a rejuvenated Tottenham and Aston Villa at home too. Newcastle away.

A very winnable 2nd game at Luton postponed due to incomplete work on the ground for the latter..mind uiu Luton would surely have been targeting that one too.

VAR did them no favours vs Nottingham Forest either.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

I think covid, and the failure and cost of the lj/ ashton years has killed off any love that SL once had, and paying out the wages for some of the shite weve signed must have been pretty galling, especially given the list of clubs who have gone past us and played in the premier leqgue.

Have to agree with this, although SL did sign and pay wages to David James.

SL and I are of a similar age (I know, I don’t look that old), and I have to say that priorities do change as you get older.

The sporting quarter will be his legacy long after he’s gone, and people will have forgotten the tens of millions wasted by successive managers on many second rate players.

The mistakes SL has made will play on his mind, he isn’t a stupid man and has clearly now said enough is enough with the cash.

A harsh lesson to have learnt for someone who can have pretty much anything in the world that can be bought, however hindsight and respect (by some) are not for sale.

[ChippenhamRed]

Yes, I absolutely want us to be promoted! I want to see us playing top teams with top players, week in week out. I want to watch us on Match of the Day. I want people to be talking about Bristol City. I want to be able to tell the taxi driver on holiday abroad who I support and for him to actually know something about us.

What's the point of all this otherwise if we don't want promotion? The fear of a difficult season, or what could go wrong, certainly isn't enough to put me off at least wanting to find out. Life is too short. Let's find out for ourselves. We may even establish ourselves in the top flight like Brighton, Brentford and Palace have.

I think this feeling is particularly acute for City fans of my generation. I'm 40 now; I'm not a spring chicken any more. And yet all I've known is mediocrity. Floating between the second and third tiers. It's largely been boring. We've only made the second tier play offs ONCE in my lifetime. Exciting seasons where promotion has been a realistic prospect after Christmas have been few and far between. FORTY YEARS! Surely there has to be some payback for all the averageness at some point?

Edited October 2, 2023 by ChippenhamRed

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Yes, I absolutely want us to be promoted! I want to see us playing top teams with top players, week in week out. I want to watch us on Match of the Day. I want people to be talking about Bristol City. I want to be able to tell the taxi driver on holiday abroad who I support and for him to actually know something about us.

What's the point of all this otherwise if we don't want promotion? The fear of a difficult season, or what could go wrong, certainly isn't enough to put me off at least wanting to find out. Life is too short. Let's find out for ourselves. We may even establish ourselves in the top flight like Brighton, Brentford and Palace have.

I think this feeling is particularly acute for City fans of my generation. I'm 40 now; I'm not a spring chicken any more. And yet all I've known is mediocrity. Floating between the second and third tiers. It's largely been boring. We've only made the second tier play offs ONCE in my lifetime. Exciting seasons where promotion has been a realistic prospect after Christmas have been few and far between. FORTY YEARS! Surely there has to be some payback for all the averageness at some point?

 

"Robin on my shirt,

Atyeo statue gleaming,

43 years of hurt,

Haven't stopped me dreaming..."

 

Seriously, you summed it up. We are the great under-achievers (and I speak as a man who did see the glory years in Division One). If City fans sometimes sound demanding of the club, this is why. 

[wendyredredrobin]

Brighton, Bournemouth and Luton are all teams with a lower league history who managed to get promoted, though for Luton, it will probably be for only one season.  We are a bigger club that any of them were and had higher attendances and income, so on that basis, promotion to the Premiership is clearly possible.  However the desire and funding needs to come from the top and I'm afraid I can see no sign of either at present.

That said, SL has invested a huge amount in the club and does not have unlimited funds, so has probably come to a place called stop until an outside investor can be found and none of us know how likely this is.

But money alone does not guarantee success.

[Grey Fox]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

What does that mean though?

Ian used to bang on about us paying a couple of players huge money & they would make the difference.

Never once considering how that would go down in the dressing room & what if they didn’t work out.

We have paid players big wages (Kalas, Wells, Palmer!) in the past to exactly what effect?

I’m actually between both camps, we do need to give Pearson more funds but the REAL go for promotion idea is madness & after flirting with failing FFP recently, it would be far more likely to see us get a points deduction than go up.

What it means, is that you plan player exits at a time that suits the club ( in the case of Scott that would have been next summer, not this), and you spend only in the areas you need to ( with City that is invariably at Right Back) , so you have a team that can at least hope to challenge. By making positive decisions this typically encourages others (Pearson) to stay, others to want to join, and of course us , the supporters.

Mediocrity isn’t  a lifestyle

[marcofisher]

20 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

What it means, is that you plan player exits at a time that suits the club ( in the case of Scott that would have been next summer, not this), and you spend only in the areas you need to ( with City that is invariably at Right Back) , so you have a team that can at least hope to challenge. By making positive decisions this typically encourages others (Pearson) to stay, others to want to join, and of course us , the supporters.

Mediocrity isn’t  a lifestyle

So would you keep Scott for another year, when he can’t play for 3 months injured, and then sell him at £12million next summer?

I would say that is mediocrity in terms of decision making. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

4 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

I worded it terrible - what I meant was, as sustainable as possible. You are spot on when you say there are no clubs at this level who are sustainable - but a club losing £40m a year is less appealing to a club losing say, £15-£20m 

That is the one real positive from the last two years. Where as on the pitch we may seem to be treading water - if the pitch we have made big strides around the overall cost of running the club . I’d even argue we have a better squad now than we did 3-4 years ago and will be paying a lot less for the privilege. Credit where credits due on that front 

Not sure if you have heard anything - but I was informed there had been a little interest from the U.S, but they only wanted the football side of things and not the whole of Bristol Sport 

But we're only a club losing say 15 - 20 mill not 40 mill (say) because we've sold our best player and not re-invested the money in players. How long will that policy "sustain" 11th to 14th in the Championship? How long will Nige stick around doing that? Maybe Steve thinks "as long as it's long enough for me to sell up/get some return" that's good enough for him.

I'd imagine though that most potential investors are bright enough to see through that sort of "sustainability." 

[Grey Fox]

5 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

So would you keep Scott for another year, when he can’t play for 3 months injured, and then sell him at £12million next summer?

I would say that is mediocrity in terms of decision making. 

His injury was unknown at that time , and part of the “gamble” for promotion, who knows he equally could have had a great season with us , and then sold for £37M. Or , with us, stayed fit?

The alternative is to always grab every deal , regardless if it is in the best interest of the club’s ambition to push forward. In other words, be a Selling Club or feeder to Bournemouth & Boscombe.

Is that what, you as a Bristol City fan want ?

5 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

So would you keep Scott for another year, when he can’t play for 3 months injured, and then sell him at £12million next summer?

I would say that is mediocrity in terms of decision making. 

 

[marcofisher]

14 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

His injury was unknown at that time , and part of the “gamble” for promotion, who knows he equally could have had a great season with us , and then sold for £37M. Or , with us, stayed fit?

The alternative is to always grab every deal , regardless if it is in the best interest of the club’s ambition to push forward. In other words, be a Selling Club or feeder to Bournemouth & Boscombe.

Is that what, you as a Bristol City fan want ?

 

He would have had 12 months left on his deal and therefore his value would decrease. His injury was known as well as he missed the first game of the season because of it. 
 

He would not fire us to promotion as he would be either injured or out of match fitness for almost half of the season. So I would call that more of a “pipe dream” than a “promotion gamble”.

 

 

[Grey Fox]

1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

He would have had 12 months left on his deal and therefore his value would decrease. His injury was known as well as he missed the first game of the season because of it. 
 

He would not fire us to promotion as he would be either injured or out of match fitness for almost half of the season. So I would call that more of a “pipe dream” than a “promotion gamble”.

 

 

Good grief, 1) in 12 months his value may reduce but could equally rise depending on his form and the clubs interested in him, 2) clearly his injury wasn’t known, or at least the seriousness of it wasn’t, as Bournemouth & Boscombe would not have paid what they did, 3) neither of us know if he would have been injured if he stayed here, so he may have “ fired us to promotion “.

Remember , negative people have a problem with every solution

COYRs

[Rocking Red Cyril]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It’s just the usual mixed messages from SL.

All very good points, words and figures differ don’t they?

Yep, don’t disagree on Scott. It’s all about the pulling up of the drawbridge after the sale where my frustration lies.

Yes, SL wants to sell, but he will struggle to find a buyer because he will price it (which bits he wants to sell or the whole thing) too high.  But nobody has a sustainable club at Champ level, so that doesn’t add up. The cost base is too high. The wage budget can’t really go any lower. 

So it seems from that successfully club cannot be sustainable ?

So it's promotion or keeping the books balenced

Or is that how SL see it's. ?

So therefore time to sell 

[marcofisher]

43 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Good grief, 1) in 12 months his value may reduce but could equally rise depending on his form and the clubs interested in him, 2) clearly his injury wasn’t known, or at least the seriousness of it wasn’t, as Bournemouth & Boscombe would not have paid what they did, 3) neither of us know if he would have been injured if he stayed here, so he may have “ fired us to promotion “.

Remember , negative people have a problem with every solution

COYRs

Not at all, I am positive it was the right thing to do at the time. Would have been more positive if we had reinvested more of the Scott money

[petehinton]

46 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Good grief, 1) in 12 months his value may reduce but could equally rise depending on his form and the clubs interested in him, 2) clearly his injury wasn’t known, or at least the seriousness of it wasn’t, as Bournemouth & Boscombe would not have paid what they did, 3) neither of us know if he would have been injured if he stayed here, so he may have “ fired us to promotion “.

Remember , negative people have a problem with every solution

COYRs

Bournemouth knew the severity of the injury, as his medical and scans were not showing good signs at all. They said as much after it was confirmed, but they wanted him so badly they are willing to take the hit and gamble. 
 

If it was a ‘normal’ signing or maybe someone that wasn’t top of the list, it was a bad enough injury for them to scrap the deal. 

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

But we're only a club losing say 15 - 20 mill not 40 mill (say) because we've sold our best player and not re-invested the money in players. How long will that policy "sustain" 11th to 14th in the Championship? How long will Nige stick around doing that? Maybe Steve thinks "as long as it's long enough for me to sell up/get some return" that's good enough for him.

I'd imagine though that most potential investors are bright enough to see through that sort of "sustainability." 

Do you know what - I’m not fussed either way whether Pearson stays or goes come the end of the season. He has done his job - but - my personal opinion is we should be doing better than what we are. 
 

I certainly don’t understand the reaction from some fans that “we must keep Nige at all costs” or “will he stick around”

He hasn’t done enough to get a better job then the one he has 

 

[Bedred31]

I almost collided with the Luton team coach yesterday while negotiating a mini roundabout in Bedford. It was being used as part of a Thameslink replacement rail service. (Sunday engineering work etc). This says something but after 24 hours thought I’m still not sure what. Either a refreshing example of a modest, down to earth spirit. Or a pathetic illustration of a hopelessly cheap outfit. Either way, as I said to my neighbour back from Everton, I’m glad I’m a City fan.

[tin]

21 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@headhunter started a thread, based on the question….or are we happy to tread water in the Champ.

Yes, staying in the Championship is not what I aspire to…but that assumes we have some semblance of investment from whoever is in charge.  I want promotion, or at least a tilt at it, because it’s not easy to achieve.

If we are now expected to be sustainable / profit making, the answer is very different.

“We” being the Lansdowns? The answer is blatantly no. If they were serious about promotion, they would have spent the last two decades getting their ducks in row to ultimately create a winning environment — and that goes beyond bricks and mortar. 

It means having the humility to hire people in senior positions who are, or have the potential to be, better than you; who can challenge your opinions freely and openly, and drive success. It means having a culture where people can be the best they can be in every department everyday, from the ticket office and the marketing team to the branding and kit deals that impact on how we are perceived. 

Things like that would help to make us PL-ready off the pitch, and the sad reality is we could not be further from that if we tried. I’d even go as far to say we’re getting increasingly amateur off the pitch and the irony is, IMO, that things are moving in the right direction on the pitch, even if that is slow progress because of the unnecessary austerity imposed on the manager. 

[Davefevs]

Well said @tin

[Kid in the Riot]

11 minutes ago, tin said:

“We” being the Lansdowns? The answer is blatantly no. If they were serious about promotion, they would have spent the last two decades getting their ducks in row to ultimately create a winning environment — and that goes beyond bricks and mortar. 

It means having the humility to hire people in senior positions who are, or have the potential to be, better than you; who can challenge your opinions freely and openly, and drive success. It means having a culture where people can be the best they can be in every department everyday, from the ticket office and the marketing team to the branding and kit deals that impact on how we are perceived.

Absolutely spot on. And ultimately that culture you describe HAS to come from the very top. The manager can do a lot, but can't influence everything. 

The drive and determination for success needs to come from the owners, and filter down through a CEO, through the manager and coaches, and then into all aspects of the football club.

Funnily enough, they were talking about similar on Football Weekly today regards Man United under the Glazers. The litany of managers failing under the Glazers' ownership isn't too dissimilar to the list under SL, is it? That's because it doesn't matter how good a manager is, if the structure around them isn't up to scratch, then whilst they may have some short-term success (think Gary Johnson, Steve Cotterill) ultimately they will fail, as the foundations the club is built on aren't strong enough.

[marmite]

22 minutes ago, tin said:

“We” being the Lansdowns? The answer is blatantly no. If they were serious about promotion, they would have spent the last two decades getting their ducks in row to ultimately create a winning environment — and that goes beyond bricks and mortar. 

It means having the humility to hire people in senior positions who are, or have the potential to be, better than you; who can challenge your opinions freely and openly, and drive success. It means having a culture where people can be the best they can be in every department everyday, from the ticket office and the marketing team to the branding and kit deals that impact on how we are perceived. 

Things like that would help to make us PL-ready off the pitch, and the sad reality is we could not be further from that if we tried. I’d even go as far to say we’re getting increasingly amateur off the pitch and the irony is, IMO, that things are moving in the right direction on the pitch, even if that is slow progress because of the unnecessary austerity imposed on the manager. 

Very well put. Most fans of course would like promotion to the Prem, even if it was for one season only.

I think the trouble is that SLs ambition is just to avoid relegation.