A more rational thread

[Jeez]

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

[GrahamC]

Interested to know on what basis you have any confidence about the “right appointment”.

Not sure about the subs or tactics point, either.

Pep would struggle with what he’s had available & lack of funds.

[Jeez]

Just now, GrahamC said:

Interested to know on what basis you have any confidence about the “right appointment”.

Not sure about the subs or tactics point, either.

Pep would struggle with what he’s had available & lack of funds.

None whatsoever - more a case of luck than judgement. 

I sense you’re too dug in to accept there were games where Pearson didn’t get it right.

[The Bard]

 Sometimes there isn't a happy medium.  You're either on one side or the other.  

 

And calling a thread rational  before anyone else has said anything is asking for it to be massively derailed.

[tin]

29 minutes ago, Jeez said:

None whatsoever - more a case of luck than judgement. 

I sense you’re too dug in to accept there were games where Pearson didn’t get it right.

He wasn’t perfect and occasionally made mistakes, just like anyone else does. But don’t try and kid yourself this decision was made for footballing reasons.

Edited October 30, 2023 by tin

[JP Hampton]

19 minutes ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

well that’s a matter of opinion if people feel strongly enough then it’s not overblown to that individual. 

19 minutes ago, Jeez said:

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

Squad depth, so where’s that magically coming from and why was it not forthcoming for NP, availability of whom, new players? There’s no substance to your suggestion and it could be applied to NP similarly. He might well have “kicked on” with the right backing.
 

Edited October 30, 2023 by JP Hampton

[Engvall’s Splinter]

4 minutes ago, Jeez said:

None whatsoever - more a case of luck than judgement. 

I sense you’re too dug in to accept there were games where Pearson didn’t get it right.

Whilst I understand how you are trying to frame your post, what manager doesn’t have games where they don’t get it right? 

[IAmNick]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

And calling a thread rational  before anyone else has said anything is asking for it to be massively derailed.

Yep, usually just makes people sound very self important to me because guess what - pretty much everyone thinks they're being rational.

Usually an indicator people struggle to see or accept another point of view in my experience.

[Jeez]

2 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Whilst I understand how you are trying to frame your post, what manager doesn’t have games where they don’t get it right? 

Obviously - but many are reacting like we’ve sacked Pep for being 2nd in the prem.

[Alessandro]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Yep, usually just makes people sound very self important to me because guess what - pretty much everyone thinks they're being rational.

Usually an indicator people struggle to see or accept another point of view in my experience.

Merge - This is just a view point from someone who wants their voice heard louder and have said nothing that can't be said on the "He's Gone" or many other threads already.

[Jeez]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

Yep, usually just makes people sound very self important to me because guess what - pretty much everyone thinks they're being rational.

Usually an indicator people struggle to see or accept another point of view in my experience.

Ok - maybe “Balance” would be a better title

[Henry]

24 minutes ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

Just because someone has a strong view and they’re upset/angry, doesn’t mean they are irrational 

[Lew-T]

26 minutes ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

Yeah, I’ve slept on it and it’s still a ridiculous decision.

[Jeez]

Just now, Henry said:

Just because someone has a strong view and they’re upset/angry, doesn’t mean they are irrational 

Didn’t say anyone was.

I get some fans are furious - just felt there needs a more balanced/rational/dust settled conversion.

But seems everyone is raging & not prepared to look at it in the cold light of day.

[Fjmcity]

Appreciate this thread as long as it stays within the boundaries of your title!

as with everything the truth always lies somewhere in the middle and people have to understand that you will never fully know the truth at each end of the spectrum to truly know that middle part

things we know

1. lansdown silence has been poor, to be MIA and only break cover to sack him feels wrong although find me a football club where the upper management is front and centre and you show me a badly run football club

2. Nige is combative - this is well known and at the end of the day this is a business. No matter how disgruntled you are you mouth off publicly against your boss, it’s not ending well. Chances are Pearson knew the situation, but was impatient and concerned for his own employment so went to the press.

3. David Rennie going too. Did the board have concerns on player management from treatment room to management which could have contributed to the injury crisis?

4. Pearson has done a good job with what he’s been given. But aren’t there still other clubs doing more on less? There is no real footballing culture at city, we are determined and dig in but my god, ask yourself - why does every goal we score feel like a forcep delivery of a 15ib baby? Couldn’t someone else maybe do better?

5. Scott money - clubs need to run sustainably, last time we spaffed transfer money we ended up in this position where we have to retain the Scott/semenyo money. Granted that was through letting Ashton loose with the finances and that is on the lansdowns but wouldn’t you rather they learnt from that?

6. this forum presents a microcosm of our fan base, maybe many who identify with nige and feel him hard done by. But don’t think for a moment he is thinking of us, it’s a job. Where was the support for him before? I go home and away and can’t remember hearing a chant for him. This is because he is functional, there is no impetus behind the team because we don’t play in a way that offers that. We are established championship, not underdogs and we need a little more football to believe in and get excited by.

Im curious to see what happens next, what I fear is the lansdowns have got themselves in a position where they can no longer do right for doing wrong and could be hounded out and it will be out of the frying pan into the fire..

 

 

[BrizzleRed]

16 minutes ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

And there in the bold lies the problem in your statement!

Nobody is claiming NP didn’t have any faults.  The point is, when you have a choice between a vastly experienced manager who transforms the amateurish culture of the club, or an egotistical, dictatorial, meddeling, massively flawed and constantly underperforming owner, I think most would choose to keep the former over the latter.

Imho, the sooner the Lansdowns are gone the better for this club, as their incompetance is taking us nowhere.

As for making the right appointment could help this group kick on, can you really see these clowns managing to make the right choice??

[Galley is our king]

1 minute ago, Jeez said:

Didn’t say anyone was.

I get some fans are furious - just felt there needs a more balanced/rational/dust settled conversion.

But seems everyone is raging & not prepared to look at it in the cold light of day.

Well in cold light of a new day.... I'm still ******* FUMING!!

Over 60 years man and boy and I can't remember any time when I was more disillusioned, felt let down, and just plain bloody ANGRY!!!!!

IS THAT BALANCED ENOUGH FOR YOU...

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, Jeez said:

Didn’t say anyone was.

I get some fans are furious - just felt there needs a more balanced/rational/dust settled conversion.

But seems everyone is raging & not prepared to look at it in the cold light of day.

What are you expecting people to say that hasn’t already been said on other threads? 

[Red Exile]

9 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

...people have to understand that you will never fully know the truth at each end of the spectrum to truly know that middle part

...what I fear is the lansdowns have got themselves in a position where they can no longer do right for doing wrong and could be hounded out and it will be out of the frying pan into the fire..

 

 

After 20 plus years I think we know quite a lot about the way Steve Lansdown works. And can make an educated guess that what comes next is unlikely to be part of a coherent strategy that builds solid foundations for a push up the league. Let's not have 'hounded out' - if he sells up now he will go with a modicum of dignity - thus far the crowd has never turned on him or the boy.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Red Exile

[Cowshed]

4 minutes ago, Zuni said:

I have met NP a few times and he is nothing like the press conference prickly character he portrays. He is chatty, pleasant and interesting. 

He is however very "old school" in his methods and this has been useful in sorting out the mess he inherited but not necessarily the way for the club going forward (in their opinion).

Sadly it may have been he was only ever really brought in as a "fire fighter" short/medium term appointment and the plan was always to replace him around this time.

 

I have met Nigel Pearson a few times. I have had the opportunity to watch the XI, the U23's/21's and its academy train. I have also had the opportunity to talk about the clubs methods with Nigel Pearson as I have with Lee Johnson, and BCFC back room staff.

What are Nigel Pearson's old school methods? His tactics? His training? What model are you referring to that the club has going forward? 

 

[SecretSam]

Calling this "rational" is setting yourself up to be shot down. You're suggesting that everyone's been irrational in their reaction - which seems unlikely, given the clear strength of feeling. Do you rate yourself above all others? 

[Jeez]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

What are you expecting people to say that hasn’t already been said on other threads? 

Maybe differing perspectives having slept on it.

To be fair I’ve never seen anything like it on here. 

[GlastonburyRed]

Getting rid of Nige is one thing, but does history suggest that we will replace him with someone better...do we have a track record of 'kicking on' when we are mid table in the Championship...

[Jeez]

4 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Calling this "rational" is setting yourself up to be shot down. You're suggesting that everyone's been irrational in their reaction - which seems unlikely, given the clear strength of feeling. Do you rate yourself above all others? 

Ok fair enough poor choice of words. 

mods - change “Rational” to “Balanced” not intending to wind anyone up on here just creating a channel discuss.

[Bazooka Joe]

Patronising post.

Almost as patronising as the way Lansdown has treated the fans.

Tha reactions are wholly justified. When a good man is treated unfairly and unjustly, right-minded people will speak out, with emotion,  considered arguments, evidence and facts.

If we weren't emotional, we'd be as bad as the Lansdowns.

We're emotional because we love our club and care about it. The Lansdowns don't have that deep-rooted, heartfelt connection.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Bazooka Joe

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

can you really see these clowns managing to make the right choice??

So did they make the wrong choice in appointing Nigel? 

I'm not sure what the right choice of Manager is. If a Manager doesn't get us promoted then presumably it's always the wrong choice?

@Jeez I agree with much you say . I think NP is rightfully credited with changing work ethic etc and I have no doubt in my mind that he also got the players playing for the shirt and despite some poor results they never stopped fighting.

The amount of people who are now crediting Nige as having been responsible for clearing up the financial mess overlooks the fact that Richard Gould was behind this and Nige would often publicly state that he was not part of contractual matters and questions regarding this should be asked of others.

[GrahamC]

36 minutes ago, Jeez said:

None whatsoever - more a case of luck than judgement. 

I sense you’re too dug in to accept there were games where Pearson didn’t get it right.

No, but that person doesn’t exist.

[JoeAman08]

The rational side is ownership not convinced NP could take us up. Harsh to say he wasn’t going to do that this year though as it was never on the cards once Scott left. However, I agree that I don’t think NP was the answer for promotion. 
 

Now you look at it. He did his job. Kept us safe and help build a core of good young pros who are fit and work for the team. Now someone fresh can come in and add their bit of flair to the side. Add some of the magic we are missing. Of course this will probably be mostly next summer so bit strange to get rid now.

 

We will see what backing someone new gets. I doubt we’ll see the MA and LJ spending again. It will be interesting then to see what funds will be released.

Not gutted he left. The football has been dreadful. So excited to see change but felt too soon. Should have let him see our most the season but again he didn’t seem keen

[lenred]

9 minutes ago, Jeez said:

Maybe differing perspectives having slept on it.

To be fair I’ve never seen anything like it on here. 

What different perspectives though?  
 

Do you honestly think people would be so shallow as to sleep in it and then go ‘oh well, never mind he maybe deserved it’?  You may get a couple but not many I’d imagine……

We will of course have to crack on (and I’m not one of those who will let Lansdown ruin or stop my support of OUR club but respect those who feel that way) but he’s got to pull a f‘ing huge rabbit out of the hat to go anywhere near to even appeasing what he has done with Pearson, and we know he just isn’t capable enough or interested enough to do that. 
  

[Jeez]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

What different perspectives though?  
 

Do you honestly think people would be so shallow as to sleep in it and then go ‘oh well, never mind he maybe deserved it’?  You may get a couple but not many I’d imagine……

We will of course have to crack on (and I’m not one of those who will let Lansdown ruin or stop my support of OUR club but respect those who feel that way) but he’s got to pull a f‘ing huge rabbit out of the hat to go anywhere near to even appeasing what he has done with Pearson, and we know he just isn’t capable enough or interested enough to do that. 
  

Fair enough Len - agreed! They better have a well worked plan to pull trigger mid season like they did.

[exAtyeoMax]

36 minutes ago, Jeez said:

Obviously - but many are reacting like we’ve sacked Pep for being 2nd in the prem.

no they're not!

They're reacting to an absurd decision by the board of sacking a manager who was trying their best with a depleted squad etc.

We're definitely not coming across as entitled! That's nonsense 

[kmpowell]

I’ve slept on it… and to be honest, now the disbelief has gone, I feel more angry than I did yesterday. 

I like to think I can be balanced and see all sides, but the more I mull it over I come back to the same conclusion. This decision was personal, it has no merit, warrant or validation.

[RedReg]

Still as angry as I was yesterday. 

[Crackers Corner]

4 minutes ago, Jeez said:

Maybe differing perspectives having slept on it.

To be fair I’ve never seen anything like it on here. 

I would be interested to know what nige has done wrong.

In the last 3 years his team and Gould reversed the financial issues and he turned us from a team who would go on horrific streaks of loses and so many last minute loses where we were weak mentally and unable to see out a match with several players on over inflated salary and egos who were dead wood he needed to sort. 

How many of the youth players would be on loan rather than breaking through into the first team as we have seen under Nige, and signing extensions whereas before they would have gone on frees.

Despite limited funds he managed to slowly evolve us unto a competitive championship team. We have been hit with horrific bad luck with injuries and seeing star players leave with no money coming back Where the money was not reinvested into the playing staff. Even with these obstacles  I still believed that we were about to turn a corner in November with injury returns.

On the other hand we have club ownership who to be fair have transformed the ground and training facilities and invested lots of money, but time and time again make the wrong decisions on the playing side often interfering with the team (buying david james/questioning Andy king etc) switching us to an amateur kit supplier, logo redesign dean holden etc. The reasons the fans are upset is that we know that they just want a yes man installed and the first decent chance of progression has been taken away from us by a bonkers non footballing decision. 

It's almost feels like JL is treating us like a plaything and where SL has always been patient with managers, JL seems to be too reactionary without having a clear idea of how to reach his aims.

Who on earth can the board replace him with that will do a better job then he has done?

[The Bard]

1 minute ago, Crackers Corner said:

I would be interested to know what nige has done wrong.

In the last 3 years his team and Gould reversed the financial issues and he turned us from a team who would go on horrific streaks of loses and so many last minute loses where we were weak mentally and unable to see out a match with several players on over inflated salary and egos who were dead wood he needed to sort. 

How many of the youth players would be on loan rather than breaking through into the first team as we have seen under Nige, and signing extensions whereas before they would have gone on frees.

Despite limited funds he managed to slowly evolve us unto a competitive championship team. We have been hit with horrific bad luck with injuries and seeing star players leave with no money coming back Where the money was not reinvested into the playing staff. Even with these obstacles  I still believed that we were about to turn a corner in November with injury returns.

On the other hand we have club ownership who to be fair have transformed the ground and training facilities and invested lots of money, but time and time again make the wrong decisions on the playing side often interfering with the team (buying david james/questioning Andy king etc) switching us to an amateur kit supplier, logo redesign dean holden etc. The reasons the fans are upset is that we know that they just want a yes man installed and the first decent chance of progression has been taken away from us by a bonkers non footballing decision. 

It's almost feels like JL is treating us like a plaything and where SL has always been patient with managers, JL seems to be too reactionary without having a clear idea of how to reach his aims.

Who on earth can the board replace him with that will do a better job then he has done?

People I know who worked with JL at Hargreaves Lansdown painted a really bad picture of him. No agenda on their part, just that he was petulant,  entitled and capable of having meltdowns if he didn't get his way.  

[mozo]

The only thing I would say in a post-Nige world is I'm interested to see what the new manager does to get our front line working better in open play. It really hasn't clicked yet, and I know injuries are part of that problem, but I'm not totally convinced that the 4-3-3 we were playing was getting the best out of the current line up. I don't like Cornick in the wide forward role, and I wonder if Mehmeti will get more minutes. Will we be able to play two up top? Or at least one up top with a supporting number 10 much closer?

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

I've slept on it, calmed down, thought it all through in a more rational manner and my conclusion is that the board and ownership of Bristol City are all *****.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

Struggling to get on board with all of this.

If “managing the board” is such an obstacle, then maybe the fault lies with the structure of the club and the board themselves.

As for not getting a new contract - “he wasn’t getting one anyway” misses the point. He was building something, and he should have been given a new contract to continue the job. It’s symptomatic of our terrible decision makers at the top of the club that he wasn’t going to get a new contract.

This club never achieves anything. Ever. Countless smaller clubs have achieved more. If we couldn’t make it work with a proven manager with multiple Championship promotions on his CV, we’ll never succeed. Sick of this embarrassment of a club.

[FNQ]

2 minutes ago, Crackers Corner said:

..Who on earth can the board replace him with that will do a better job than he has done?

Exactly this… the board think the current squad should be good enough for promotion so let’s see who the have in mind to come in now and better lead / inspire the players.. as a minimum it ought to be someone has who has at least been a proven number 2 at an established PL club or someone who has already earned credibility by taking a team up to the prem. We know it won’t be though, it’ll be the best for the less they can get..

[ChippenhamRed]

11 minutes ago, The Bard said:

People I know who worked with JL at Hargreaves Lansdown painted a really bad picture of him. No agenda on their part, just that he was petulant,  entitled and capable of having meltdowns if he didn't get his way.  

I mean that figures doesn’t it. He has no leadership qualities whatsoever. He is a terrible public speaker. He doesn’t inspire at all. He has no natural authority or presence. He is there for one reason and one reason only. If it wasn’t for Daddy, he’d be working at Carphone Warehouse.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Rational is an interesting title.

I'd say the rational stance here is that of the vast majority- anger and dismay, confusion at the failure to renew months back, let alone sacking of a popular manager who had us moving in the right direction despite having his hands tied.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

8 minutes ago, The Bard said:

People I know who worked with JL at Hargreaves Lansdown painted a really bad picture of him. No agenda on their part, just that he was petulant,  entitled and capable of having meltdowns if he didn't get his way.  

Well- someone somewhere made part of that up. He was in a lowly position trying to learn his trade and certainly was not in a position to have histrionics.

The truth of the matter was that he just wasn't particularly good at his job and a pale and disappointing shadow of his father's ability and intelligence.

[Fjmcity]

40 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

After 20 plus years I think we know quite a lot about the way Steve Lansdown works. And can make an educated guess that what comes next is unlikely to be part of a coherent strategy that builds solid foundations for a push up the league. Let's not have 'hounded out' - if he sells up now he will go with a modicum of dignity - thus far the crowd has never turned on him or the boy.

But to who? Any success I can point to in the last 10 years of takeovers comes with a huge ethical headache, one I don’t fancy squaring with myself. There’s no wealthy Bristolians wondering forward ready to invest.

and where were we 20 years before lansdown?

im not an apologist, just very careful what I might wish for. What we all know is that this melts away with a team playing well, we are no where near the levels of Man U where it is rotten to the core and beyond repair. Get the appointment right and everyone forgets, that is on the lansdowns to get right and I really hope they do

 

[BrizzleRed]

22 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So did they make the wrong choice in appointing Nigel? 

I'm not sure what the right choice of Manager is. If a Manager doesn't get us promoted then presumably it's always the wrong choice?

@Jeez I agree with much you say . I think NP is rightfully credited with changing work ethic etc and I have no doubt in my mind that he also got the players playing for the shirt and despite some poor results they never stopped fighting.

The amount of people who are now crediting Nige as having been responsible for clearing up the financial mess overlooks the fact that Richard Gould was behind this and Nige would often publicly state that he was not part of contractual matters and questions regarding this should be asked of others.

I believe they made the right choice of manager in NP, but for the wrong reasons.  

Rather than appointing him for the long-tern benefit of the club, they viewed it as short-term to drag us out of the FFP hole they’d dug for us.  

I liken it to someone hating medicine, but knowing they needed to take it to get better, so just hold their nose and swallow.  We have now cleared the FFP issue and the Lansdowns couldn’t wait to dump someone they clearly didn’t want at the club, but tolerated to get the job done.

For me, the Lansdown’s latest actions have removed any hope I had that they had the Club’s best interests at heart and I’m done with them.

Totally agree with you re Richard Gould and he was massive in the FFP issue and a huge loss when he went.  NP was still the person who managed to protect our Championship status through all the player cuts and upheaval though.

[red colin]

1 hour ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

My thoughts too

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

Having slept on it and reading Nigels farewell, I'm even angrier. 

I can't ever remember feeling this angry and upset with the club. 

We do do some daft shit at times but this tops it all. 

Nigel was very much liked and respected by the playing squad and staff.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

Let's be honest, you're the guy who gets hit by a bus, Mrs cheats on him, kids go off with mum, cat goes and loves with another family, house catches fire and burns to the ground and then says "well at least I have my 1991 Ford Escort" aren't you? 

Pearson was the first man since I started supporting this club that was out spoken, honest and turned a terrible position into one of hope. The only other manager who stood up to the men at the top was Cotterell, who did amazing here and I think also lost his job due to the board wanting rid. Essentially in my 35 years of supporting this club they are the two main managers who have done well and been out spoken, only for the board to hate that about them so they've ham stringed them both to get rid. 

We could look forward and be positive but the truth of the matter is the only way we'll progress is by a manager coming in, being tactically strong, good at managing in all areas and being able to do it on a shoestring budget, all whilst making sure they kiss the boards ass and stay quiet when they're having to take the bring caused by that same board. If you genuinely believe there is a manager out there who can do all that then I am insanely jealous of your optimism because to me, that's a level of optimism I'll never obtain, especially as a City supporter. 

Nigel isn't the issue, sacking him fixes nothing, the issue are the people running this club and that is exactly why we have amazing facilities, a great stadium etc but still haven't managed to compete in this league without punching massively above our weight. The club is definitely being held back, but it's by those who seem unsackable, so they'll just keep sacking people when things don't go their way and we'll have to keep accepting it or we walk away from a club we love. 

[INCRED]

56 minutes ago, Zuni said:

I have met NP a few times and he is nothing like the press conference prickly character he portrays. He is chatty, pleasant and interesting. 

He is however very "old school" in his methods and this has been useful in sorting out the mess he inherited but not necessarily the way for the club going forward (in their opinion).

Sadly it may have been he was only ever really brought in as a "fire fighter" short/medium term appointment and the plan was always to replace him around this time.

 

I sincerely hope this is the case and was always the strategy but it will only become apparent when a new head coach is brought in and what the club do in the January window

hopefully we can get our unfit players back on the pitch and start gaining some consistent performances 

When you look at the recent results, we have not performed poorly and losing by the odd goal against the top two sides is no disgrace bearing in mind the injuries and using under 21 players 

I just hope the board choose wisely regards a new coach as it needs to be someone the supporters are happy with and can help us kick on to the next level but I won’t hold my breath 

[Jeez]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

Let's be honest, you're the guy who gets hit by a bus, Mrs cheats on him, kids go off with mum, cat goes and loves with another family, house catches fire and burns to the ground and then says "well at least I have my 1991 Ford Escort" aren't you? 

Pearson was the first man since I started supporting this club that was out spoken, honest and turned a terrible position into one of hope. The only other manager who stood up to the men at the top was Cotterell, who did amazing here and I think also lost his job due to the board wanting rid. Essentially in my 35 years of supporting this club they are the two main managers who have done well and been out spoken, only for the board to hate that about them so they've ham stringed them both to get rid. 

We could look forward and be positive but the truth of the matter is the only way we'll progress is by a manager coming in, being tactically strong, good at managing in all areas and being able to do it on a shoestring budget, all whilst making sure they kiss the boards ass and stay quiet when they're having to take the bring caused by that same board. If you genuinely believe there is a manager out there who can do all that then I am insanely jealous of your optimism because to me, that's a level of optimism I'll never obtain, especially as a City supporter. 

Nigel isn't the issue, sacking him fixes nothing, the issue are the people running this club and that is exactly why we have amazing facilities, a great stadium etc but still haven't managed to compete in this league without punching massively above our weight. The club is definitely being held back, but it's by those who seem unsackable, so they'll just keep sacking people when things don't go their way and we'll have to keep accepting it or we walk away from a club we love. 

It’s a great car - don’t knock it!

[Jose]

What a strange thread. Rational? Really? We’ve just sacked a manager who has done everything that’s asked of him. He inherited an absolute mess left by Steve’s love child and has us in a better position as a club to go forward. 
 

You then have his clueless son come out and say their aim is promotion after selling our best players and not re-investing. They are taking the fan base for absolutely idiots and we are being irrational? 
 

**** me. 

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I believe they made the right choice of manager in NP, but for the wrong reasons.  

Rather than appointing him for the long-tern benefit of the club, they viewed it as short-term to drag us out of the FFP hole they’d dug for us.  

I liken it to someone hating medicine, but knowing they needed to take it to get better, so just hold their nose and swallow.  We have now cleared the FFP issue and the Lansdowns couldn’t wait to dump someone they clearly didn’t want at the club, but tolerated to get the job done.

Nailed it lad. Absolutely spot on in every respect.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I liken it to someone hating medicine, but knowing they needed to take it to get better, so just hold their nose and swallow.  We have now cleared the FFP issue and the Lansdowns couldn’t wait to dump someone they clearly didn’t want at the club, but tolerated to get the job done.

Actually this ia a very good analogy. I think they would obviously have continued if we were flying in the top 6 but anything else was always going to end how it has.

I don't think there was ever any real likelyhood of a new contract short of promotion . However, the timing is abysmal, imo, and he should have been allowed to see the season out.  

From an entirely speculative view point, I suspect that the relationship was already broken and the health issue also played its part on both sides. I genuinely hope Nige gets the treatment to sort these issues out and anyone who read a recent interview ( think it was a national newspaper 2-3 months back) will know that Nige puts his family and his health above all and quite rightly so. 

[Bris Red]

34 minutes ago, kmpowell said:

I’ve slept on it… and to be honest, now the disbelief has gone, I feel more angry than I did yesterday. 

I like to think I can be balanced and see all sides, but the more I mull it over I come back to the same conclusion. This decision was personal, it has no merit, warrant or validation.

Totality agree. I have woken up actually more angry today than anything. The statement from the boy saying our aim is promotion? Its the taking us fans for complete and utter idiots that is infuriating.

 

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Jeez said:

A lot of the posts over the last 24 hours have got overblown. Hopefully we’ve slept on it & now have a bit more perspective.

NP brought a lot of positives but let’s not kid ourselves, he can be difficult, we’ve collectively scratched our heads about subs & tactics and if he can’t manage the owners than he isn’t dynamic enough for this particular club’s needs.

What we don’t know is how NP is received throughout the rest of the club & if he’s as hard to work with as his reputation suggests.

I’m incredibly grateful for what he’s done in clearing out the overpaid disinterested players & instilling the positive work ethic, team spirit. 

It was a brutal sacking given the availability. But football managers are well paid & they know the score. His contract will be honoured until end of the season, we all knew he wasn’t getting a new one, so this is probably makes sense to get the new guy started now before the Jan window opens. Especially if they had already started the process & found the right candidate.

There’s certainly more to it than we know & my gut is with the right appointment, squad depth & availability this group can kick on

 

 

I think his health/mobility issues could also have played a not insignificant role in his dismissal as well, yes there have been a lot of injuries but even the most loyal NP supporter has to admit there have been times when even with most of our players fit we have had some disappointing runs of results, I mean we went nearly a calendar year without winning at home. I think his tenure will always have that what if about it, what with us selling our best players and all the injuries, it will be interesting to see where he ends up next, or he may even decide to call it a day.

Edited October 30, 2023 by pillred

[Numero Uno]

14 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

But to who? Any success I can point to in the last 10 years of takeovers comes with a huge ethical headache, one I don’t fancy squaring with myself. There’s no wealthy Bristolians wondering forward ready to invest.

and where were we 20 years before lansdown?

im not an apologist, just very careful what I might wish for. What we all know is that this melts away with a team playing well, we are no where near the levels of Man U where it is rotten to the core and beyond repair. Get the appointment right and everyone forgets, that is on the lansdowns to get right and I really hope they do

 

Personally I wish we didn't have a crap decision maker, who has obviously lost interest in football, owning the club. It's an argument that is getting weaker by the day because as things stand the Bristolian ownership are unable to sell the structure they have created and are on a path of slowly running the club down to a point where we WILL be in the lower leagues in a season or two playing The Few if the investment is not found.

[Red Exile]

13 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

But to who? Any success I can point to in the last 10 years of takeovers comes with a huge ethical headache, one I don’t fancy squaring with myself. There’s no wealthy Bristolians wondering forward ready to invest.

and where were we 20 years before lansdown?

im not an apologist, just very careful what I might wish for. What we all know is that this melts away with a team playing well, we are no where near the levels of Man U where it is rotten to the core and beyond repair. Get the appointment right and everyone forgets, that is on the lansdowns to get right and I really hope they do

 

20 years on even the most loyal of Lansdown loyalists must recognise that at some point SL will sell up. We don’t have to know who the buyer will be to hope that they might have a bit more ambition. The club I know best other than us is Hull. My in-laws club. Always a bit of a roller coaster there but boy has it been an entertaining ride for them since that day in May 15 years ago. Spells in the Prem, relegation and promotion and the cup final. They’re on their third owner and going again. And that’s in Hull - not Bristol. And us? -  struggling to compete once again. It’s a tedious rinse and repeat. Time for a change. 

[BrizzleRed]

4 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I think they would obviously have continued if we were flying in the top 6 but anything else was always going to end how it has.

The cynic in me says this is why they got shot now.  Even with our massively depleted squad, we’ve got a couple of winnable games coming up, which could significantly improve our league position.  

I reckon they saw their best chance as now and when you compare some of the horror runs they tolerated under LJ, their reaction to NP is totally shocking and disgusting, particularly as he has not had anything like his full squad so far this season.

As you say, hopefully he can now concentrate on getting back to full health again.

[Fjmcity]

7 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

20 years on even the most loyal of Lansdown loyalists must recognise that at some point SL will sell up. We don’t have to know who the buyer will be to hope that they might have a bit more ambition. The club I know best other than us is Hull. My in-laws club. Always a bit of a roller coaster there but boy has it been an entertaining ride for them since that day in May 15 years ago. Spells in the Prem, relegation and promotion and the cup final. They’re on their third owner and going again. And that’s in Hull - not Bristol. And us? -  struggling to compete once again. It’s a tedious rinse and repeat. Time for a change. 

But in that time hull have had owners who have tried desperately to change the name of the club and now owned by some faceless investment fund. Is it a molecule of success at any cost?

real investment is coming from hedge funds, despot regimes and the Americans - I don’t want this at my club 

 

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Totality agree. I have woken up actually more angry today than anything. The statement from the boy saying our aim is promotion? Its the taking us fans for complete and utter idiots that is infuriating.

 

I think I'm more in despair than angry: the chance of building something; finally progressing - thrown away because of personality clashes and/or an utter lack of understanding of football.

I won't boycott the club. I've been here through shit chairmen, shit managers, shit players, in the past. They are just custodians. People like me, and most of us in this forum, we are the club.

I really can't wait for the Lansdowns to go though. I'm not going to say evrything they have done is bad - but in terms of progression, they are a definite drag on the club. 

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

But in that time hull have had owners who have tried desperately to change the name of the club and now owned by some faceless investment fund. Is it a molecule of success at any cost?

real investment is coming from hedge funds, despot regimes and the Americans - I don’t want this at my club 

 

 

 

It's Steve's club not yours, remember that.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

Just because someone has a strong view and they’re upset/angry, doesn’t mean they are irrational 

It doesn’t mean that’s the case, sure. But there were more than a few instances yesterday where that was the case! 

[Clutton Caveman]

1 hour ago, Fjmcity said:

Appreciate this thread as long as it stays within the boundaries of your title!

as with everything the truth always lies somewhere in the middle and people have to understand that you will never fully know the truth at each end of the spectrum to truly know that middle part

things we know

1. lansdown silence has been poor, to be MIA and only break cover to sack him feels wrong although find me a football club where the upper management is front and centre and you show me a badly run football club

2. Nige is combative - this is well known and at the end of the day this is a business. No matter how disgruntled you are you mouth off publicly against your boss, it’s not ending well. Chances are Pearson knew the situation, but was impatient and concerned for his own employment so went to the press.

3. David Rennie going too. Did the board have concerns on player management from treatment room to management which could have contributed to the injury crisis?

4. Pearson has done a good job with what he’s been given. But aren’t there still other clubs doing more on less? There is no real footballing culture at city, we are determined and dig in but my god, ask yourself - why does every goal we score feel like a forcep delivery of a 15ib baby? Couldn’t someone else maybe do better?

5. Scott money - clubs need to run sustainably, last time we spaffed transfer money we ended up in this position where we have to retain the Scott/semenyo money. Granted that was through letting Ashton loose with the finances and that is on the lansdowns but wouldn’t you rather they learnt from that?

6. this forum presents a microcosm of our fan base, maybe many who identify with nige and feel him hard done by. But don’t think for a moment he is thinking of us, it’s a job. Where was the support for him before? I go home and away and can’t remember hearing a chant for him. This is because he is functional, there is no impetus behind the team because we don’t play in a way that offers that. We are established championship, not underdogs and we need a little more football to believe in and get excited by.

Im curious to see what happens next, what I fear is the lansdowns have got themselves in a position where they can no longer do right for doing wrong and could be hounded out and it will be out of the frying pan into the fire..

 

 

I don't think they need any hounding. If they could get a decent bid for the mess that is Bristol Sport they would sail off to Guernsey and Bermuda with a huge sense of relief and a big smile on their face

[Fjmcity]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It's Steve's club not yours, remember that.

and the sky is blue. it’s got to be someone’s unless we are fan owned so not sure what the point is.

my point is I’m not going to support selling the clubs soul for one season in the premier league.

you may argue the club is currently souless as it is, but I am fairly certain it could be a lot lot worse

[Red Exile]

5 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

But in that time hull have had owners who have tried desperately to change the name of the club and now owned by some faceless investment fund. Is it a molecule of success at any cost?

real investment is coming from hedge funds, despot regimes and the Americans - I don’t want this at my club 

 

 

 

But we’re owned by a faceless family living in tax exile. The head of which has had 20 years, achieved almost nothing of footballing note and has clearly lost interest. We’re hostages to a huge ego. Let go! 

…to be honest I really don’t care what the fearful Lansdown loyalists think any more. You’ve had your way and will doubtless continue to have it until the moment Steve finally sells up. Enjoy the mediocrity!

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Good discussion from the OP

I don't get the absolute kneejerk.

We've had plenty of managers who've mopped up others messes and then others have kicked on.

I was going to start a thread about NP  best games as in where we were epic. Preston Away a few seasons back and Man City last season stick.

However on pitch as a few have mentioned it wasn't brilliant in the main ( only seen highlights this season)

In terms of progress and wanting a not cushy club we have that on an off the field, players who aren't afraid to step up and ruthlessness up high which many have criticized the higher ups for before for being too nice.

Can't have it both ways 

Stripped away from all of the emotions. We had a manager who achieved nothing of note on the field broadly speaking but did lots for the culture and laid foundations (ala Leicester)

Sometimes the person who does the dirty work, isn't the one to move a team forward and absolutely not getting the anger especially around the mediocrity on the field .

The signs have been there for ages, going from last December's ( I think) shocking run 

See where the next manager, coach takes us as the journey evolves.

 

Hang on, we've improved year on year broadly speaking while cutting the cost base- for which Gould also was a key part and while NP is the bigger loss, Gould was another.

The injury list is a concern but NP should have had the chance to build some good work, several million more this summer across wages, fees etc. That little more depth means a greater ability to rotate, perhaps less risk of burnout.

It is plausible someone else will benefit from his good work but it really should be him.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

But we’re owned by a faceless family living in tax exile. The head of which has had 20 years, achieved almost nothing of footballing note and has clearly lost interest. We’re hostages to a huge ego. Let go! 

…to be honest I really don’t care what the fearful Lansdown loyalists think any more. You’ve had your way and will doubtless continue to have it until the moment Steve finally sells up. Enjoy the mediocrity!

Exactly. You used to get your head bitten off if you went anywhere near the Lansdown family with criticism. Shame it's taken over 20 years of mediocrity and a club that literally cannot be sold for us all to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Point of accuracy, Hull are owned by the Turkish Simon Cowell (Acun Ilicali) not a faceless investment fund.

Some of his public pronouncements are interesting and if they don't go up in the next 18 months..

Allam family did try to change name yeah and that was when things went South however they initially saved them from bankruptcy and handed them on in a solid state.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Clutton Caveman]

46 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Exactly this… the board think the current squad should be good enough for promotion so let’s see who the have in mind to come in now and better lead / inspire the players.. as a minimum it ought to be someone has who has at least been a proven number 2 at an established PL club or someone who has already earned credibility by taking a team up to the prem. We know it won’t be though, it’ll be the best for the less they can get..

The crazy thing is.... for all of our anger and disgust, if 8 weeks from now we have a new manager and are winning with a more entertaining brand of football, all of this will be forgotten but nobody will say "the ownership got it right" This is not a forecast but more of an observation of the fickle nature of football supporters.

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Point of accuracy, Hull are owned by the Turkish Simon Cowell not a faceless investment fund.

Allam family did try to change name yeah and that was when things went South however they initially saved them from bankruptcy and handed them on in a solid state.

Indeed. I’m not at all sure that I buy the current ownership or that it will end well…but it is certainly entertaining! My in-laws aren’t fearful. More inclined to gently taunt me for our crapness!

[IAmNick]

17 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Good discussion from the OP

I don't get the absolute kneejerk.

We've had plenty of managers who've mopped up others messes and then others have kicked on.

I was going to start a thread about NP  best games as in where we were epic. Preston Away a few seasons back and Man City last season stick.

However on pitch as a few have mentioned it wasn't brilliant in the main ( only seen highlights this season)

In terms of progress and wanting a not cushy club we have that on an off the field, players who aren't afraid to step up and ruthlessness up high which many have criticized the higher ups for before for being too nice.

Can't have it both ways 

Stripped away from all of the emotions. We had a manager who achieved nothing of note on the field broadly speaking but did lots for the culture and laid foundations (ala Leicester)

Sometimes the person who does the dirty work, isn't the one to move a team forward and absolutely not getting the anger especially around the mediocrity on the field .

The signs have been there for ages, going from last December's ( I think) shocking run 

See where the next manager, coach takes us as the journey evolves.

 

That "year on year improvement with a positive net spend" thing Lee got seems to have gone huh!

I'm also interested in who has mopped up messes for others to then kick on - the two in my mind recently, Gary and Cotts, both did the mopping up and kicking on themselves imo.

In my experience we usually get the club in a reasonable position, only to make a couple of ultimately poor appointments and undo it all.

I'm struggling to think of a single Championship appointment we've made which has left the club in a better position than that found it apart from Pearson - seriously. Who??

Edited October 30, 2023 by IAmNick