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elhombrecito

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted (edited)

I guess I'd go Eustace over Rowett. Eustace really should still be in work, his sacking was at least as unjust as Pearson's. Birmingham looked ok when we played them and he's "in credit" rather than on the scrap heap.

Not my first choice overall, but probably my choice from that list.

Edit: I suppose the argument for Rowett is that he got a limited Millwall side to outperform their wage budget and make the playoffs last season. Could he repeat the trick here? I'd argue not this season given our injury list, and then I'd argue that he wasn't repeating it this season at Millwall either, so in summary; probably not.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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BCFCGav

BCFCGav

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, red kev said:

Andy king? Cheap easy option!

I would honestly go King or Fleming until Christmas. A new manager right now would be drinking from a poisoned chalice - coming into a team where the fans want the old manager back and the squad is in tatters. They'll likely get off to a bad start, and fans could turn quick. Anyone coming in now, certainly from the above list, seems doomed to fail.

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Scrumpty

Scrumpty

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, wybmadwity said:

... of the betting list Graham Potter is about the only one who would not be worse than Person.  Where do I vote?

Not for me. No doubt, Potter is an excellent coach/manager, but that’s the problem. If appointed and brings success, he’ll off to Prem in a flash and we’ll be back to square 1.

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Baba Yaga

Baba Yaga

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

I would honestly go King or Fleming until Christmas. A new manager right now would be drinking from a poisoned chalice - coming into a team where the fans want the old manager back and the squad is in tatters. They'll likely get off to a bad start, and fans could turn quick. Anyone coming in now, certainly from the above list, seems doomed to fail.

Whilst what you say is really unappealing, I am inclined to agree that it's the best option currently on the table. Fleming for a few games as things blow over would be fine by me. But if it's true that the board have already been making moves then it might make them look more incompetent if it now becomes a drawn out process and some of the options start going to other clubs.

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Bris Red

Bris Red

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

What's Eustace ever achieved to be favourite?

Had a slightly decent spell at Birmingham in his only ever gig as a head coach, he has only ever been number 2 or caretaker elsewhere.

Still a huge gamble going for him but he would have to be a better shout than the failure that is Rowett..

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Atticus

Atticus

Posted
Posted

How many on their are an actual upgrade on Pearson?

Also. Judging by Jon's comments on his sacking, I'd expect top 6 minimum now as a remit for the job surely? It has to be that or face the sack, no exceptions. That's the bar that's been laid by the clowns. 

 

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One Team

One Team

Posted
Posted
Just now, Atticus said:

How many on their are an actual upgrade on Pearson?

Also. Judging by Jon's comments on his sacking, I'd expect top 6 minimum now as a remit for the job surely? It has to be that or face the sack, no exceptions. That's the bar that's been laid by the clowns. 

 

Indeed, don’t see any of them with NP’s quality of CV. Of that bunch Eustace is probably the least worst. 

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Winterstoke toad

Winterstoke toad

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Scrumpty said:

Not for me. No doubt, Potter is an excellent coach/manager, but that’s the problem. If appointed and brings success, he’ll off to Prem in a flash and we’ll be back to square 1.

That’s like any manager though mate . Until we get to the prem(Big ask) we will always have the possibility of managers being poached .

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Kodjias Wrist

Kodjias Wrist

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Had a slightly decent spell at Birmingham in his only ever gig as a head coach, he has only ever been number 2 or caretaker elsewhere.

Still a huge gamble going for him but he would have to be a better shout than the failure that is Rowett..

Rowett who got Millwall 3 8th placed finishes did he not? Might be slightly inaccurate but Rowett is pretty proven at this level of improving teams. Did well at brum until the new owners sacked him. 

What are we classing as a failure and success for managers? Is it promotion? 

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Red & Gold

Red & Gold

Posted
Posted

Like nearly everyone else, I did not want Nige to leave, and I would have preferred him over nearly everyone on this list. However, I am surprised that John Eustace seems to be the reluctant best fit according to many (and looks like our board too), given our current situation and his current reputation.

 

I understand that he did a commendable job at Birmingham under difficult circumstances. The club was on a downward trajectory, and there is no doubt that managed to add stability and start to turn them around. He did a decent job, and this year they appeared promising after having a bit more to spend. Clearly, he should not have been sacked considering the start they had and the declining performance since Ronney took over, has only seems to have further improved his reputation.

 

However, he is relatively inexperienced and hasn't achieved much in his managerial career to rank him above so many on this list, in my opinion (which is just one perspective). In his 63 matches at Birmingham, he averaged 1.24 points per game (Nige was at 1.20 at City for comparison), which, over a season, would average out to 57 points and a 16th place finish based on last year's league point scores. It's decent considering where Birmingham started, but it isn't particularly exciting.

 

I just feel that we  need to exercise caution when making appointments solely because someone is the 'flavour of the month.' It's not too dissimilar to when the footballing world felt SOD was unfairly sacked at Nottingham Forest, which made him a more reputable appointment for us at the time (although, to be fair, he had a track record with promotions at Doncaster and Bournemouth in League 1).

 

In comparison to Eustace, someone like Chris Wilder won four trophies at Alfreton Town, achieved promotions at Oxford, Northampton, and (two at) Sheffield United. Personally, Wilder would be my top choice from that list, not least because he is a 'coach' who plays exciting, attacking football and has a record of overachieving with teams. I think he would come here and has a point to prove after Boro (often when a manager is at their best). However, I mention him more to illustrate that we shouldn't dismiss someone because of one recent poor job has harmed their reputation, considering their entire career (just as we shouldn't overrate someone based on one good spell).

 

I've had the opportunity to meet with the Argyle chairman several times. He is a great example of running a club within its means while still pushing it forward. They operate within a highly statistical and data-driven model. He once mentioned to me that, generally speaking, final table rankings tend to correlate with money spent on wages (excluding a few outliers). Therefore, considering our current financial model under FFP in comparison to teams with parachute payments, we are likely to finish between 14th and 7th most years. So, appointing your typical Championship manager (Rowett, Jones, Ainsworth, etc.) is most likely to result in us finishing within this range (as we have with NP). It raises the question again of why change?

 

Our wage budget and spending won't change significantly in a league with so many financial powerhouses, therefore unless we adopt a different approach that sets us apart nothing will change much. So if we do want to push try and find a way to go up we need to try and find a way in which our method becomes an outliner.  Looking at past examples, this could mean appointing a foreign coach with a different tactical methodology (e.g., the German model that achieved promotions at Huddersfield and Norwich, which was quite novel a few years back, and Martinez when he was at Swansea). Alternatively, a different analytical approach to recruitment (e.g., Brentford, Brighton, and Plymouth in League 1) might be the way forward. Lastly, we could seek – and hope to be lucky enough to find the next cutting-edge young coach (e.g., Rodgers at Swansea). I may be oversimplifying, and for every one of these success stories, there are two that fail (I guess in our case Mciness), but I believe we need an appointment that excites and thinking outside the box may be what we need. Perhaps finding a talented assistant/coach who has worked under the likes of Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp, or an overseas manager whose analytics demonstrate a tactical approach that outperforms expectations, or, if we opt for a young British coach, we shouldn't go for the cheap option but go all out for a Schumacher type.

 

But, as I said at the start, I saw no reason to remove Nigel Pearson, and it feels unjust given the context and what he has done. I think it’s this annoyance, and seeing our past choices when recruiting managers (e.g. LJ, Holden and et al) that has compelled me to write this post as you just sense we won’t go into this with too much thought beyond, they interviewed well.

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Keep the Faith said:

Don’t get the anti Rowett stuff. He looks a decent option to me. Complaints about playing style seem slightly odd as Pearson didn’t exactly deliver earth shatteringly good football or results at home and I say that as someone who has no issue with him.

You can see Rowett being on Lansdown's radar as he has worked with a tight budget and moulds a team who are tough to bear from limited resources. 

Thing is, so did Peatson, and he offered more.

(And that's before we get to the unfairness of the sacking and the appalling waste of money of paying 7 months of a contract off)

Edited by Red-Robbo
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Kingswood Robin

Kingswood Robin

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Keep the Faith said:

Don’t get the anti Rowett stuff. He looks a decent option to me. Complaints about playing style seem slightly odd as Pearson didn’t exactly deliver earth shatteringly good football or results at home and I say that as someone who has no issue with him.

I don't want him anywhere near here as I remember how awful games against Birmingham were while he was in charge. Players apparently injured off the pitch, running to the halfway line then collapsing in a heap again, keepers taking five minutes to work out which side of the box to take a goal kick.

I'll quite easily find something else better to do than be subjected to that.

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Scrumpty

Scrumpty

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Winterstoke toad said:

That’s like any manager though mate . Until we get to the prem(Big ask) we will always have the possibility of managers being poached .

Agreed, but the risk increases if we opt for someone above our station, which Potter is. I can see him managing Bournemouth before the season’s over.

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steveybadger

steveybadger

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Same old names on that list!!

Aren’t they just. There is a huge lack of imagination in football really. 
 

NP shouldn’t have gone but as he has I’d prefer someone a bit more left field (from abroad?) to see if it can give us an edge, especially given the squad is already quite stable. Trouble is you wouldn’t trust the ownership to have the knowledge to select correctly.

Wonder if Benny fancies another stab🤔

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MelksRed

MelksRed

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

We need to stay up. Warnock it is then. 

Warnock would turn AG into a fortress, ruin any sense of free flowing play and pi55 me off weekly.

Knowing our luck, the bloke we've hated for so long would be the bloke that got us to the playoffs. 

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Ian M

Ian M

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We don't have any strategic advantages over other clubs at this level (eg larger budgets or exceptional recruitment strategy) to allow a run-of-the-mill Championship manager to succeed here so all the managers linked with us so far fill me with apathy. The appointment of Pearson's replacement needs to bring that X-Factor if we are going to stand a chance of achieving the Lansdowns' stated goal of promotion, so that means scouring the globe for a manager with as yet un-heralded tactics or coaching methods and backing ourselves to make that call. Someone like a Will Still before he took Reims to 5th in Ligue 1 or a DeZerbi clone. Without that (or increased budget or overhauled recruitment department), we have a ceiling of mediocrity.

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maxjak

maxjak

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Red & Gold said:

Like nearly everyone else, I did not want Nige to leave, and I would have preferred him over nearly everyone on this list. However, I am surprised that John Eustace seems to be the reluctant best fit according to many (and looks like our board too), given our current situation and his current reputation.

 

I understand that he did a commendable job at Birmingham under difficult circumstances. The club was on a downward trajectory, and there is no doubt that managed to add stability and start to turn them around. He did a decent job, and this year they appeared promising after having a bit more to spend. Clearly, he should not have been sacked considering the start they had and the declining performance since Ronney took over, has only seems to have further improved his reputation.

 

However, he is relatively inexperienced and hasn't achieved much in his managerial career to rank him above so many on this list, in my opinion (which is just one perspective). In his 63 matches at Birmingham, he averaged 1.24 points per game (Nige was at 1.20 at City for comparison), which, over a season, would average out to 57 points and a 16th place finish based on last year's league point scores. It's decent considering where Birmingham started, but it isn't particularly exciting.

 

I just feel that we  need to exercise caution when making appointments solely because someone is the 'flavour of the month.' It's not too dissimilar to when the footballing world felt SOD was unfairly sacked at Nottingham Forest, which made him a more reputable appointment for us at the time (although, to be fair, he had a track record with promotions at Doncaster and Bournemouth in League 1).

 

In comparison to Eustace, someone like Chris Wilder won four trophies at Alfreton Town, achieved promotions at Oxford, Northampton, and (two at) Sheffield United. Personally, Wilder would be my top choice from that list, not least because he is a 'coach' who plays exciting, attacking football and has a record of overachieving with teams. I think he would come here and has a point to prove after Boro (often when a manager is at their best). However, I mention him more to illustrate that we shouldn't dismiss someone because of one recent poor job has harmed their reputation, considering their entire career (just as we shouldn't overrate someone based on one good spell).

 

I've had the opportunity to meet with the Argyle chairman several times. He is a great example of running a club within its means while still pushing it forward. They operate within a highly statistical and data-driven model. He once mentioned to me that, generally speaking, final table rankings tend to correlate with money spent on wages (excluding a few outliers). Therefore, considering our current financial model under FFP in comparison to teams with parachute payments, we are likely to finish between 14th and 7th most years. So, appointing your typical Championship manager (Rowett, Jones, Ainsworth, etc.) is most likely to result in us finishing within this range (as we have with NP). It raises the question again of why change?

 

Our wage budget and spending won't change significantly in a league with so many financial powerhouses, therefore unless we adopt a different approach that sets us apart nothing will change much. So if we do want to push try and find a way to go up we need to try and find a way in which our method becomes an outliner.  Looking at past examples, this could mean appointing a foreign coach with a different tactical methodology (e.g., the German model that achieved promotions at Huddersfield and Norwich, which was quite novel a few years back, and Martinez when he was at Swansea). Alternatively, a different analytical approach to recruitment (e.g., Brentford, Brighton, and Plymouth in League 1) might be the way forward. Lastly, we could seek – and hope to be lucky enough to find the next cutting-edge young coach (e.g., Rodgers at Swansea). I may be oversimplifying, and for every one of these success stories, there are two that fail (I guess in our case Mciness), but I believe we need an appointment that excites and thinking outside the box may be what we need. Perhaps finding a talented assistant/coach who has worked under the likes of Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp, or an overseas manager whose analytics demonstrate a tactical approach that outperforms expectations, or, if we opt for a young British coach, we shouldn't go for the cheap option but go all out for a Schumacher type.

 

But, as I said at the start, I saw no reason to remove Nigel Pearson, and it feels unjust given the context and what he has done. I think it’s this annoyance, and seeing our past choices when recruiting managers (e.g. LJ, Holden and et al) that has compelled me to write this post as you just sense we won’t go into this with too much thought beyond, they interviewed well.

Am i correct in thinking that recruiting a Number 2 from relatively successful teams has   proven   to be a successful route for some clubs,?  Such as Farke, Mckenna and Rohl, who has just been recruited at Sheff W. and of course an extreme example in Arteta, It just seems a smart way to go, namely appointing a Number 2 who has learnt his trade under a quality manager, and is looking to fullfil his own ambitions?  Just a thought, but probably too far out and left field for Lansdown!? ................who would prefer someone cheap and subservient..........Ha!

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Kid in the Riot

Kid in the Riot

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, maxjak said:

Am i correct in thinking that recruiting a Number 2 from relatively successful teams has   proven   to be a successful route for some clubs,?  Such as Farke, Mckenna and Rohl, who has just been recruited at Sheff W. and of course an extreme example in Arteta, It just seems a smart way to go, namely appointing a Number 2 who has learnt his trade under a quality manager, and is looking to fullfil his own ambitions?  Just a thought, but probably too far out and left field for Lansdown!? ................who would prefer someone cheap and subservient..........Ha!

Maresca at Leeds too.

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bcfc01

bcfc01

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

What odds can you get on Luke Williams ?

I'm guessing he fits with the type they may be looking for, but they'd have to pay compo to Notts County. On the flip side, he wouldn't have the same level of salary as some of the names in the pot.

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CliftonCliff

CliftonCliff

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Harry R said:

Leave him in place to take training, then sack him when the new man is appointed.

If he resigns, no payout, so he stays waiting to be sacked.

Is my guess.

I should probably know this, as it presumably must have been spelled out somewhere, but I’m still unclear as to whether all the personnel who have gone were dismissed, or if some chose to leave in the wake of Pearson’s sacking. Can anyone enlighten me?

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Merrick's Marvels

Merrick's Marvels

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, shelts said:

Still can’t understand why he wasn’t sacked 🤷‍♂️

We need someone to take training, mate! And field those tricky questions from the Evening Post before Saturday's game. 

He'll be gone as soon the owner finds his new patsy.

Edit - answered already above!

Edited by Merrick's Marvels
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Antman

Antman

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, red kev said:

Andy king? Cheap easy option!

sadly i don't see King staying, too closely associated with Nige.

 

i have a really bad feeling re Nathan Jones - please god no. - but the luton link scares me, as SL has them as his current bedroom poster wannabee wet dream team.

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shelts

shelts

Posted
Posted
Just now, Merrick's Marvels said:

We need someone to take training, mate! And field those tricky questions from the Evening Post before Saturday's game. 

He'll be gone as soon the owner finds his new patsy.

Agh ok . The regime had a problem with only the Gaffa then !

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I don't want him anywhere near here as I remember how awful games against Birmingham were while he was in charge. Players apparently injured off the pitch, running to the halfway line then collapsing in a heap again, keepers taking five minutes to work out which side of the box to take a goal kick.

I'll quite easily find something else better to do than be subjected to that.

You do have to be winning though, to be in a position to be doing that. Which would make a change at Ashton Gate. (Only joking! - well, half, anyway!)

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RedNachos

RedNachos

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Rowett who got Millwall 3 8th placed finishes did he not? Might be slightly inaccurate but Rowett is pretty proven at this level of improving teams. Did well at brum until the new owners sacked him. 

What are we classing as a failure and success for managers? Is it promotion? 

While I don't want a manager with no experience of managing high-level football. The levels of success are more important to me than the experience in the division. Much rather we went for someone from obscuirty with outstanding success as their credentials as opposed to a Lampard, who's failed everywhere he's gone but got two premier league gigs.

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Atticus said:

How many on their are an actual upgrade on Pearson?

Also. Judging by Jon's comments on his sacking, I'd expect top 6 minimum now as a remit for the job surely? It has to be that or face the sack, no exceptions. That's the bar that's been laid by the clowns. 

 

well they should be braced for multiple compensation payouts when they realise its not achievable 

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Tinmans Love Child

Tinmans Love Child

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, RedNachos said:

While I don't want a manager with no experience of managing high-level football. The levels of success are more important to me than the experience in the division. Much rather we went for someone from obscuirty with outstanding success as their credentials as opposed to a Lampard, who's failed everywhere he's gone but got two premier league gigs.

Agree with this, I want us to recruit a winner first and foremost, look at some of the managers who have gained promotion from the Championship in recent years and how much Championship experience they had before promotion.  If the list of candidates with Championship experience doesn't include a winner, then you need to look at other leagues for your man

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Sir Geoff

Sir Geoff

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Atticus said:

How many on their are an actual upgrade on Pearson?

Also. Judging by Jon's comments on his sacking, I'd expect top 6 minimum now as a remit for the job surely? It has to be that or face the sack, no exceptions. That's the bar that's been laid by the clowns. 

 

Trouble is Klopp and Pep are both employed elsewhere. Not sure who else could guarantee top 6. But then I'm sure crayonboy has a plan.

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bcfc01

bcfc01

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Agree with this, I want us to recruit a winner first and foremost, look at some of the managers who have gained promotion from the Championship in recent years and how much Championship experience they had before promotion.  If the list of candidates with Championship experience doesn't include a winner, then you need to look at other leagues for your man

Like Luke Williams maybe.

Youngish, very good reputation in the game and broke all sorts of records at Nott County.

Not my choice (I don't really have one atm) but I think he fits the bill for the Lansdowns.

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Gillies Downs Leeds

Gillies Downs Leeds

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Like Luke Williams maybe.

Youngish, very good reputation in the game and broke all sorts of records at Nott County.

Not my choice (I don't really have one atm) but I think he fits the bill for the Lansdowns.

Not my choice either but knows the club having been under 23s manager, was going to be part of the succession planning back in the day. Don't know what went wrong, prob a threat to LJ? 

Can see this happening.

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