More advantages for relegated clubs!

[cheese]

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else but the poor love's need even more advantages when relegated.  To me, this is creating a closed shop via the back door.  How can anyone compete?

 

[GrahamC]

Whole thing is a complete farce.

 

[LondonBristolian]

Ridiculous - what's the point if it's a completely skewed contest?

[ExiledAjax]

Yeh it's part of the introduction of SCMP into the Championship. That introduction is one of the things that the PL are insisting on as a condition of the EFL getting a new settlement/deal.

Yes, it's stupid and anti-competitive.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Ridiculous - what's the point if it's a completely skewed contest?

It’s obvious they don’t really want a “contest” just the same yo yo clubs whilst those above this stay there in perpetuity.

Don’t have any interest in watching the Prem anymore, it bores me to tears, but virtually eliminating the possibility of getting there sort of defeats the point of the game.

[1960maaan]

Another nail in the meritocracy coffin .

[Open End Numb Legs]

It is all relative. To compete in the Prem they need to spend big and assuring finances in the event of relegation seems a sensible move for them in terms of contracts and retaining players.

It is very bad for the Champ of course and with the existing parachute payments they need to find a better way to do re distribute wealth in the game or it will get too polarised. The wrong move at this time.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I saw that in the Times the other day.

Surely the EFL won't agree to this or will they?? The money is welcome but the strings are too tight.

Think 16/24 (used to be 18/24), Championship clubs need to vote in favour to agree to a rule change but I dunno if the 72 as a whole supersedes.

Parachute Payments vs Solidarity Payments gap would decrease but would still exist.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It’s obvious they don’t really want a “contest” just the same yo yo clubs whilst those above this stay there in perpetuity.

Don’t have any interest in watching the Prem anymore, it bores me to tears, but virtually eliminating the possibility of getting there sort of defeats the point of the game.

As I’ve said the PL has 25 clubs, they just let 20 play each each season.

[Spud21]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I saw that in theTimes other day.

Surely the EFL won't agree to this or will they?? The money is welcome but the strings are too much.

Think 16/24 (used to be 18/24), Championship clubs need to vote in favour to agree to a rule change but I dunno if the 72 as a whole supersedes.

Parachute Payments vs Solidarity Payments gap would decrease but would still exist.

I suspect that they will much like they did with EPPP that was certainly not in the clubs as a whole interest. 

Think there will be 2 sorts of clubs thst back it for different reasons, the big clubs thst will want it to try and ensure that they get even bigger advantages as and when they go up and down, and then the other clubs like us and others who are spending beyond their means to try and compete with the bugger sides so they need the extra money that will come from this. 

I can't help but feel more and more that something drastic needs to happen like the big 6 sodding off to a shitty superleague to cause a financial reset where the rest of the clubs can start to live within their means and have a league system based on merit not how much money your accountants can be creative with to avoid FFP or how much you can ignore the rules because if it works it doesn't matter. 

[Bas's perfect hattrick]

They're desperate to imitate the American closed leagues. More guaranteed money that way. 

[One Team]

27 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It’s obvious they don’t really want a “contest” just the same yo yo clubs whilst those above this stay there in perpetuity.

Don’t have any interest in watching the Prem anymore, it bores me to tears, but virtually eliminating the possibility of getting there sort of defeats the point of the game.

Completely agree Graham. Wouldn’t surprised me if they stop relegation in a few years. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Spud21 said:

I suspect that they will much like they did with EPPP that was certainly not in the clubs as a whole interest. 

Think there will be 2 sorts of clubs thst back it for different reasons, the big clubs thst will want it to try and ensure that they get even bigger advantages as and when they go up and down, and then the other clubs like us and others who are spending beyond their means to try and compete with the bugger sides so they need the extra money that will come from this. 

I can't help but feel more and more that something drastic needs to happen like the big 6 sodding off to a shitty superleague to cause a financial reset where the rest of the clubs can start to live within their means and have a league system based on merit not how much money your accountants can be creative with to avoid FFP or how much you can ignore the rules because if it works it doesn't matter. 

There was talk of the EFL (EFL clubs vote on regs) vehemently opposing certain matters but that seems to have gone quieter sadly.

Lower clubs will back it because they can be a bit hand to mouth, clubs at our level might as you say because they will cut to cut the spending gap.

FFP loopholes have been closed significantly but that is for another thread.

1 minute ago, One Team said:

Completely agree Graham. Wouldn’t surprised me if they stop relegation in a few years. 

FA have a Golden Share so dunno whether that is likely tbh.

[cidercity1987]

I'm confused as anything with the PL attitude

I don't understand why they would ever want a closed shop with clubs like Leeds/Sheff Wed/Sunderland/Derby outside and tiny or unattractive clubs like Bournemouth/Burnley/Brentford/Luton inside

[Midred]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There was talk of the EFL (EFL clubs vote on regs) vehemently opposing certain matters but that seems to have gone quieter sadly.

Lower clubs will back it because they can be a bit hand to mouth, clubs at our level might as you say because they will cut to cut the spending gap.

FFP loopholes have been closed significantly but that is for another thread.

FA have a Golden Share so dunno whether that is likely tbh.

The PL,  being the monster created by the FA seem to tell the FA what to do now due to the amount of money they bring in. That's the only reason that the EFL still invite the PL clubs to win their competition.

.

[ExiledAjax]

25 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

I'm confused as anything with the PL attitude

I don't understand why they would ever want a closed shop with clubs like Leeds/Sheff Wed/Sunderland/Derby outside and tiny or unattractive clubs like Bournemouth/Burnley/Brentford/Luton inside

You have to remember how the PL makes decisions.

It makes them by votes, and a decision needs 14 out of 20 votes to pass. Thus the big 6 clubs need to keep at least 8 of the others on their side if they want to push through any changes that they want.

This is why "the PL" will propose things that seem to benefit Brentford and Bournemouth rather than Leeds or Sheff Wednesday. It gets the clubs that are in the PL now on side with the big 6.

It's political.

[Super]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

It’s obvious they don’t really want a “contest” just the same yo yo clubs whilst those above this stay there in perpetuity.

Don’t have any interest in watching the Prem anymore, it bores me to tears, but virtually eliminating the possibility of getting there sort of defeats the point of the game.

What a weird thing to say considering the amount of people across the world that watch it.

[Red-Robbo]

8 minutes ago, Super said:

What a weird thing to say considering the amount of people across the world that watch it.

 

"People voted for the Nazis and like Coldplay, Jez. You can't trust people!"

 

(FWIW I agree with Gray)

[Open End Numb Legs]

Some of the speed of passing in the Prem is stunning. Championship on fast forward.

[downendcity]

3 minutes ago, Super said:

What a weird thing to say considering the amount of people across the world that watch it.

That's because the vast majority of those that watch across the world are "fans" of Man City, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool. 

They are not Bristol City fans and couldn't care less about the inequality that parachute payments cause in the championship.

Unfortunately the revenue generated by those worldwide Premier league fans/viewers only further exacerbates the financial divide.

[CyderInACan]

The premier league are proper see you next Tuesdays 

[downendcity]

4 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

Some of the speed of passing in the Prem is stunning. Championship on fast forward.

Our passing out from the back is like watching a prem team in a slo mo replay.

[Curr Avon]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Whole thing is a complete farce.

 

Really? Aren't you looking forward to us failing in the Premier League, then benefiting from that failure?

There's a flaw in this plan somewhere, but I can't quite pin it. 

[Super]

5 minutes ago, downendcity said:

That's because the vast majority of those that watch across the world are "fans" of Man City, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool. 

They are not Bristol City fans and couldn't care less about the inequality that parachute payments cause in the championship.

Unfortunately the revenue generated by those worldwide Premier league fans/viewers only further exacerbates the financial divide.

I agree it's unfair but to say it's boring it's boring to watch is complete nonsense. 

[elhombrecito]

20 minutes ago, Super said:

I agree it's unfair but to say it's boring it's boring to watch is complete nonsense. 

Different strokes for different folks. One person's entertaining, is another person's boring.

[Gert Mare]

Those who think that creating greater disparity between football clubs is for the good of the game aren't seeing the whole picture.

The day that football truly becomes a closed shop will be the death of the great game.

It's a real shame.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

Really? Aren't you looking forward to us failing in the Premier League, then benefiting from that failure?

There's a flaw in this plan somewhere, but I can't quite pin it. 

No, not bothered.

Seen us in the top flight before & no confidence we would spend money wisely in the increasingly unlikely prospect we get there in my lifetime.

Really enjoy watching Championship football, doesn’t bother me at all.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Super said:

What a weird thing to say considering the amount of people across the world that watch it.

Not really, because everyone is free to like what they want.

I like music & films that probably aren’t exactly mainstream, it doesn’t mean I’m right or I’m wrong. 

More people like Ed Sheeran than the music I like, no one is right, just completely subjective.

I find an incredibly predictable league with clubs owned by very dubious people & games ruined by VAR to be a total bore.

I’m not stopping anyone else from watching it, the plastic fans with absolutely no local connection “supporting” Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea, etc, etc.

Just not for me.

Edited November 10, 2023 by GrahamC

[Mr Popodopolous]

Should the EFL wait, try to haggle a better desl or wait and bank on the new Regulator imposing a better deal across the board.

My preference would be:

*Take Solidarity Payments

*Take Parachute Payments

*Stick it in a pot with the EFL own T.V. deal.

*Pool that amount then distribute equally by club, weighted by division as with the EFL TV deal.

If we must have this 70% rule then it applies to all, irrespective of relegation or promotion to the Championship.

Still won't get pure equality but it seems a pretty fair way.

[Super]

28 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Not really, because everyone is free to like what they want.

I like music & films that probably aren’t exactly mainstream, it doesn’t mean I’m right or I’m wrong. 

More people like Ed Sheeran than the music I like, no one is right, just completely subjective.

I find an incredibly predictable league with clubs owned by very dubious people & games ruined by VAR to be a total bore.

I’m not stopping anyone else from watching it, the plastic fans with absolutely no local connection “supporting” Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea, etc, etc.

Just not for me.

Better hope we don't go up then.

[GrahamC]

11 minutes ago, Super said:

Better hope we don't go up then.

Why?

It doesn’t matter what I “hope”, we either will or won’t.

The money will be nice but I’m not sure the experience will be great.

Things seem to have changed a lot since 2008, it seemed more equal & interesting back then.

[Super]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Why?

It doesn’t matter what I “hope”, we either will or won’t.

The money will be nice but I’m not sure the experience will be great.

Things seem to have changed a lot since 2008, it seemed more equal & interesting back then.

The experience would be great. At least we would actually have achieved something.

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, Super said:

The experience would be great. At least we would actually have achieved something.

Doesn’t that depend on how the season actually went?

Say we only got 11 points in total like Derby did, by February we’d already be nailed on certs to go back down & I’d expect the vast majority would be totally hacked off & couldn’t wait for it to end?

If we were still in with a chance of survival then I think you’re right, but I don’t think it would be “great” in every potential scenario.

[Super]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Doesn’t that depend on how the season actually went?

Say we only got 11 points in total like Derby did, by February we’d already be nailed on certs to go back down & I’d expect the vast majority would be totally hacked off & couldn’t wait for it to end?

If we were still in with a chance of survival then I think you’re right, but I don’t think it would be “great” in every potential scenario.

Well that's the worst case scenario. Of course it would be tough and a real challenge but it's not impossible. We might even lose the serial under achiever tag!

[LondonBristolian]

9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Doesn’t that depend on how the season actually went?

Say we only got 11 points in total like Derby did, by February we’d already be nailed on certs to go back down & I’d expect the vast majority would be totally hacked off & couldn’t wait for it to end?

If we were still in with a chance of survival then I think you’re right, but I don’t think it would be “great” in every potential scenario.

I'd love us to go up but I do suspect the reality would be watching the team lose far more often than we won and potentially not watching at all. Due to geography, it's not practical for me to have a season ticket and I get to far more away games than home games. I can very easily see a scenario where I find it impossible to get away tickets and, on the rare occasions I do, spending a lot more money to watch us lose,

[Mr Popodopolous]

Brentford and Brighton especially have bucked the trend somewhat but yes a lot who go up slump into midtable or below. Both of them are a smaller and similar profile to us historically. Albeit Bloom poured a lot in, mix of team and infrastructure.

It is incredibly difficult though and the amount of cash flowing..owner input is insane. Check Fulham Football Leisure Cash Flow and equity from 2014-15 to 2021-22 for one decent PL season, yoyoing ie top end Championship, bottom end PL and despite Parachute Payments or PL cash from 2001-02 to present.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[PHILINFRANCE]

24 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Doesn’t that depend on how the season actually went?

Say we only got 11 points in total like Derby did, by February we’d already be nailed on certs to go back down & I’d expect the vast majority would be totally hacked off & couldn’t wait for it to end?

If we were still in with a chance of survival then I think you’re right, but I don’t think it would be “great” in every potential scenario.

Over an entire season, I perhaps share your view that it is probably more enjoyable to be winning in the Championship most weeks and pushing for a play off place or even promotion.

Nevertheless, in a season in which we lost more games than we won; the build up to our match away to Coventry, the actual match and, obviously, the result itself were probably one of the most exciting times of watching and supporting City I can remember - I also went to Leeds, but seem to recall I was strangely quiet during that match .

[Curr Avon]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

No, not bothered.

Seen us in the top flight before & no confidence we would spend money wisely in the increasingly unlikely prospect we get there in my lifetime.

Really enjoy watching Championship football, doesn’t bother me at all.

The 75/76 campaign was my first, as a 7 year-old season ticket holder, followed by the four years in the top flight.

It'd be nice to get back there again - one day.

 

[glastored]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

It’s obvious they don’t really want a “contest” just the same yo yo clubs whilst those above this stay there in perpetuity.

Don’t have any interest in watching the Prem anymore, it bores me to tears, but virtually eliminating the possibility of getting there sort of defeats the point of the game.

Me neither. Haven’t watched MOTD for about three years. Just not interested….

[Red Shadow]

5 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Over an entire season, I perhaps share your view that it is probably more enjoyable to be winning in the Championship most weeks and pushing for a play off place or even promotion.

Nevertheless, in a season in which we lost more games than we won; the build up to our match away to Coventry, the actual match and, obviously, the result itself were probably one of the most exciting times of watching and supporting City I can remember - I also went to Leeds, but seem to recall I was strangely quiet during that match .

Sometimes the chase is more enjoyable than the catch. 

I wonder if the Burnley fans are fed up already.

[Ian M]

11 hours ago, Spreadsheet Boy said:

As I’ve said the PL has 25 clubs, they just let 20 play each each season.

Relegation just takes 3 years of failure instead of 1.

[GrahamC]

11 hours ago, Red Shadow said:

Sometimes the chase is more enjoyable than the catch. 

I wonder if the Burnley fans are fed up already.

My hunch is more like totally baffled.

They stormed our division last season but Kompany then decided for reasons best known to himself to completely rip that squad up & add at least a dozen new players.

Thus far it looks a very odd decision & their results have been terrible.

The only reason they probably aren’t fed up yet is because effectively they are now in a 4 team competition for one spot to stay up, with the 2 other promoted sides (!) & Bournemouth.

Doubt they expected to be below Luton & no better off than Sheff U though.

[Red Skin]

Sounds like they need to be reported to these guys.   Football clubs are businesses like any other and this smacks of a cartel dressed up as a competition. 

[ZumerZetSmithy]

Players in the Premiership should have a  clause in the contract that they get a reduction in relegation.  This might make them try hard to stay in the league