Gary O’Neil - VAR

[Davefevs]

Worth a watch.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

That headbutt is a red card all day long. Shocking that they've not got involved it that.

 

[BCFC Rich]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That headbutt is a red card all day long. Shocking that they've not got involved it that.

 

Agreed. Even more annoyingly if he had dropped to floor and rolled around clutching his face I bet it would have been a red. It just encourages the ridiculous over reactions you get sometimes. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, BCFC Rich said:

Agreed. Even more annoyingly if he had dropped to floor and rolled around clutching his face I bet it would have been a red. It just encourages the ridiculous over reactions you get sometimes. 

I was gonna say that. His honesty has cost his team there which just seems totally ridiculous. 

[Lrrr]

Amazon have been told their pundits can't criticise referees because the PL is worried they'll lose their referees to foreign leagues because the referees don't like the amount of criticism they get. Sky/BT have been told the same but just carry on because of how large their investment in English football is they know the PL can't really do anything about it, Amazon however who only have a small TV deal are easy to replace. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

The only way this mess gets sorted out in my opinion is by having either the ref or var ref having to explain their decisions. "No red card" is not good enough. If its not a red card for that headbutt, explain why it isn't. At the moment there is no accountability for this faceless people in the VAR room which isn't even at the stadium.

 

[slartibartfast]

42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Worth a watch.

 

Didn't know the result, but how did I guess Wolves had lost ?

[petehinton]

Always really liked him since being a manager. Extremely articulate and clearly a very good coach too. 

[Jose]

The amount of decisions going against them this season is farcical.

[Portland Bill]

6 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Amazon have been told their pundits can't criticise referees because the PL is worried they'll lose their referees to foreign leagues because the referees don't like the amount of criticism they get. Sky/BT have been told the same but just carry on because of how large their investment in English football is they know the PL can't really do anything about it, Amazon however who only have a small TV deal are easy to replace. 

The real problem is the amount of young referees who are quitting the game, assaults are now common practice in non league grassroots games. 
These ‘were’ the future referees. 

[East End Old Boy]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Worth a watch.

 

Stuart Attwell was the VAR “official” and took so long reviewing surely proves nothing was clear and obvious. Also surprised there wasn’t an intervention for a red!

[GlastonburyRed]

Might be in the minority here, and probably wouldn't agree if City were in the Prem/subject to VAR, but I love the extra drama and controversy it brings. It's the entertainment business after all.

As someone above alluded to, the managers only tend to chirps, as per, when the decisions go against them. A tale as old as time, whether the decisions are being made by man or machine...

Edited November 28, 2023 by GlastonburyRed

[LondonBristolian]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The only way this mess gets sorted out in my opinion is by having either the ref or var ref having to explain their decisions. "No red card" is not good enough. If its not a red card for that headbutt, explain why it isn't. At the moment there is no accountability for this faceless people in the VAR room which isn't even at the stadium.

 

I think there is a lot they could do to simplify it. I just find it ridiculous that football spent years resisting implementing video technology and have then implemented it in such a heavy handed and unstructured way.
 

Any of - or a combination of - the following three things could simplify it massively:

1. VAR is only implemented when a manager requests and a manager can make one VAR request per half.

2. A panel of three VAR assessors watch footage back three times from three different angle. It is only a “clear and obvious error” if all three are unanimous from those three viewings that an error has been made.

3. VAR starts to work on the basis that the referee is right unless proven wrong. At the moment, VAR officials are acting as a separate arbitrator rather than an appeals process and that massively undermine’s the referee’s authority.

[1960maaan]

Wolves don't seem to be getting their share of decisions so far, can't wait until the "evens out over a season" kicks in they will be in Championship winning form.

Joking aside;
First Pen looks just wrong 
The headbutt , when not sent off the I don't think VAR overturn it as it could be seen as the guy standing up. Not that I necessarily think that, but I can see that argument. 
As for the taking of the Pens , I didn't think you were allowed to stop in the run up. Willian almost does for the first, I'll just about give him that he still has momentum, but the 2nd looks like he does stop.

Over this season and some of the decisions, O'Neil has shown some restraint . He has been very calm in his post match stuff that I've seen. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

18 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Wolves don't seem to be getting their share of decisions so far, can't wait until the "evens out over a season" kicks in they will be in Championship winning form.

Joking aside;
First Pen looks just wrong 
The headbutt , when not sent off the I don't think VAR overturn it as it could be seen as the guy standing up. Not that I necessarily think that, but I can see that argument. 
As for the taking of the Pens , I didn't think you were allowed to stop in the run up. Willian almost does for the first, I'll just about give him that he still has momentum, but the 2nd looks like he does stop.

Over this season and some of the decisions, O'Neil has shown some restraint . He has been very calm in his post match stuff that I've seen. 

Yes VAR can take a look at the headbutt because it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to only issue a yellow for it when it should have been red. 

Var can't get involved in yellow card decisions unless it could be a red. 

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes VAR can take a look at the headbutt because it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to only issue a yellow for it when it should have been red. 

Var can't get involved in yellow card decisions unless it could be a red. 

That’s why the referee should have been told to review the head but incident - had that happened it would have been a red card.

[jj77]

1 hour ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Might be in the minority here, and probably wouldn't agree if City were in the Prem/subject to VAR, but I love the extra drama and controversy it brings. It's the entertainment business after all.

As someone above alluded to, the managers only tend to chirps, as per, when the decisions go against them. A tale as old as time, whether the decisions are being made by man or machine...

It's only for the TV audience which is probably why it was pushed so hard by the Tv companies in the first place.

It isn't much fun watching grass grow for 8 minutes at a time in the stadium.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes VAR can take a look at the headbutt because it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to only issue a yellow for it when it should have been red. 

Var can't get involved in yellow card decisions unless it could be a red. 

I don't think I phrased my reply very well.

What I meant is as the lad did it in one move, I could see VAR being of the opinion it wasn't clear enough to overturn themselves. They can't intervene with a yellow, but I think they can ask the Ref to look at the replay. That should have happened IMO. They seem scared at times to ask Refs to look , yet happy to take minutes looking at obvious decisions. 

[sludge]

9 hours ago, slartibartfast said:

Didn't know the result, but how did I guess Wolves had lost ?

Equally as surprising, Marco Silva seemed completely happy with VAR in his post match interview.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

I think they've ****** up the rules of the game in a quest for perfection.

• The flow is gone.
• The decisions are still questionable.
• The offside lines are mathematically questionable.

It needs fixing as it's a joke, as it is.  Slow disjointed and often wrong, at least the injustice at this level is because the ref is just shit.

https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/motion-capture-reveals-why-var-in-football-struggles-with-offside-decisions/

It's an interesting read 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Lorenzos Only Goal

[Out of his pie crust]

If you have to watch a replay more than 3 times it’s not a clear and obvious error. Personally I’d get rid of it. Keep goal line technology which is fast, generally accurate and non subjective and accept that refs / Lino’s will make the odd error, at the benefit of the game flow.

[TV Tom]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I was gonna say that. His honesty has cost his team there which just seems totally ridiculous. 

If that was Grealish he would of rolled around the floor 10 times to ensure the guy was sent off (as would a huge majority of prem' players) the Wolves guy was far too honest

[Markthehorn]

37 minutes ago, Out of his pie crust said:

If you have to watch a replay more than 3 times it’s not a clear and obvious error. Personally I’d get rid of it. Keep goal line technology which is fast, generally accurate and non subjective and accept that refs / Lino’s will make the odd error, at the benefit of the game flow.

Exactly - people thought it would be perfect and there wouldn’t be any errors but we seem to get more debates than ever now.

Because it’s all very subjective and the VAR either sticks with their mate or the on field refs feel under pressure maybe from a more experienced officiating team to charge his mind .

Which why I am not even sure a review system would work tbh like in cricket .

Edited November 28, 2023 by Markthehorn

[Riaz]

4 hours ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Might be in the minority here, and probably wouldn't agree if City were in the Prem/subject to VAR, but I love the extra drama and controversy it brings. It's the entertainment business after all.

As someone above alluded to, the managers only tend to chirps, as per, when the decisions go against them. A tale as old as time, whether the decisions are being made by man or machine...

Really?

It utterly kills the best bit of the match... a goal... Cant celebrate now... i hope its gone, if and when we go up.

[Curr Avon]

11 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That headbutt is a red card all day long. Shocking that they've not got involved it that.

 

Yes, but it was a soft headbutt. 

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes VAR can take a look at the headbutt because it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to only issue a yellow for it when it should have been red. 

Var can't get involved in yellow card decisions unless it could be a red. 

 

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

Yes, but it was a soft headbutt. 

For years now even a brush with the head has been enough for a red, it's been zero tolerance I would be surprised if there is no retrospective red.  Where this nonsense of it's a soft headbutt comes from I don't know.  Maybe it's because the wolves player didn't jump up and onto the floor with his face in his hands?

[Cowshed]

6 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

The real problem is the amount of young referees who are quitting the game, assaults are now common practice in non league grassroots games. 
These ‘were’ the future referees. 

It is almost like there is a synergy present where behaviours at the top manifest themselves throughout the game. I cant quite put my finger on the psychology where diminished respect for officialdom  at the games zenith is not mirrored at grass roots games .. 

[Lavington Robin]

2 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Yes, but it was a soft headbutt. 

 

Yep. Definitely a red card for poor execution 

[Will Rollason]

Here's my take. 

I think the system is flawed in that it's attempting to take error away from refereeing.

Unlike other sports a lot of football refereeing calls are subjective and It doesn't  matter how much VAR tries to be better or quicker or more professional it will STILL be subjective.

With Cricket, for instance,  the tech is there to help and is very useful objectively BUT if it's very tight or if there is any doubt it remains the umpires call which he made subjectively in the moment.

I believe this should be the case in football as well. A really good example is the 2nd Fulham penalty from the other night

The referee is in a great position and he decides, in the moment, it's not a penalty.

That's it. Thrat's enough for me,  we need to let the referees and assistants make their calls and,  critically,  accept it. We may agree or not but that's what the ref is for.

Mistakes will happen with offside/pens/cards but that has to be better than the current spectacle of endless slow-mo and freeze frames trying to justify getting the ref to change his call. 

How many of them have been brave enough to say "No" to the VAR? How many of them have had the nerve to say,  "Nope,I don't even need to see it again?"

Not many because there is now that fear that they might have got it wrong because they've been asked to watch it again. 

It's in danger of ruining our beautiful game. 

 

 

 

 

[supercidered]

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

Really?

It utterly kills the best bit of the match... a goal... Cant celebrate now... i hope its gone, if and when we go up.

I don't think you need to worry yourself.

However, if they bring it to the Championship, I can only see things getting worse.

[Denbury Red]

9 hours ago, Jose said:

The amount of decisions going against them this season is farcical.

Very similar to the number of penalty shouts we had (until Saturday) that went against us - the standard of refereeing across the leagues is just shocking - with or without VAR

[Bris Red]

All the game ever needed was goal line technology IMHO, var has been a complete mess unsurprisingly.

[BCFC Rich]

31 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

All the game ever needed was goal line technology IMHO, var has been a complete mess unsurprisingly.

I agree, I think the only potential way of saving it is to give teams a single challenge if they feel a decision is wrong. Something a little more like tennis - If you challenge and are successful keep the challenge if you are wrong you lose it. It would make sure the game is so stop-start. It hasn't removed mistakes anyway, so just except their will be imperfect decisions and that this is part of the game. 

[And Its Smith]

Wolves deserve at least a point from yesterdays game. Nobody can disagree with that. So just give them a point. It lessens the mistake. 

[kit]

The only positive I can really think that has come from var is that it seems to have cut down in some of the egregious diving in the penalty area. 

On balance var has made the game so much worse and I don't think it can be made to work.

I also think that since Howard Webb has come on board things have got worse, I always thought he was hugely overrated as a referre and aside from having good control and pointing stern fingers at players he still seemed to be able to drop massive clangers that got largely overlooked.

Whenever you hear refs talk you get the impression that its a bit of a clique and competance doesn't really matter so long as you're one of the lads to get on the elite list.

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

 

For years now even a brush with the head has been enough for a red, it's been zero tolerance I would be surprised if there is no retrospective red.  Where this nonsense of it's a soft headbutt comes from I don't know.  Maybe it's because the wolves player didn't jump up and onto the floor with his face in his hands?

I don't know if the rules have been changed but I thought even the intention of doing a headbutt was a red card offence? So simply the movement of the head towards the player. 

[cider hoss rules]

The principle of VAR I’m fine with, just not the way it’s being used.

I would change it so there is one VAR official watching the screens, if something happens that doesn’t get called by the on field officials, he suggests the ref goes and looks at the pitch side monitor for him to review it.

The ref has a chance to see if he has got a call wrong and he can then change it, not be told by someone else to make a change. I would also cut down on the freeze frames and super slow-mo as they can often make something look a lot worse than when played at normal speed.

Whilst this might make it more tedious initially, and possibly slightly longer delays, in time I think the proper flow would return and players more likely to accept the decisions the ref makes as it is his and his alone call.

[Sheltons Army]

Penalty ( ‘Handball’ )against Newcastle in 6thmin of added on time in Paris

 

Their have been dozens of farcical decisions in recent years , but we might have a winner

Outrageous , farcical , laughable and makes the game a complete nonsense , and utter joke

Disgraceful

WTF

Edited November 28, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[frenchred]

Another shocker for VAR against the Toon tonight.

Bin it off FFS 

[Lew-T]

That’s a shocker.  
 

Yes, Newcastle rode their luck a little bit, but to get undone by a decision like that feels unfair. But it’s Mbappe and PSG so you can guess why it was given…

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

I'm not sure. His hands were by his side and that was fine. He then lifted his arm when the ball was kicked and that's when the ball hit his arm so unfortunately it was hand ball because he made his body bigger.

The outrage by the likes of McCoist is hilarious. What they don't realise that they're doing is actually arguing that the laws are wrong. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[Sheltons Army]

The UEFA guide to officials is it is NOT handball if the ball is reflected off a player onto his arm 

 

So , the clowns in VAR and the clown referee is

1) Not aware of the guidelines (Totally unacceptable incompetence ) - unlikely 

2) Corrupt

3) I’m not sure there can be a third

 

About time UEFA , in this case hailed those involved in on Thursday morning and ask that exact question

 

Then tell all those involved , they won’t be officiating in the competition for a minimum of two years,  and have to earn consideration to possibly return

 

Enough is enough 

18 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not sure. His hands were by his side and that was fine. He then lifted his arm when the ball was kicked and that's when the ball hit his arm so unfortunately it was hand ball because he made his body bigger.

The outrage by the likes of McCoist is hilarious. What they don't realise that they're doing is actually arguing that the laws are wrong. 

It’s shouldn’t be handball - see above WSM

Edited November 28, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

The UEFA guide to officials is it is NOT handball if the ball is reflected off a player onto his arm 

 

So , the clowns in VAR and the clown referee is

1) Not aware of the guidelines (Totally unacceptable incompetence ) - unlikely 

2) Corrupt

3) I’m not sure there can be a third

 

About time UEFA , in this case hailed those involved in on Thursday morning and ask that exact question

 

Then tell all those involved , they won’t be officiating in the competition for a minimum of two years,  and have to earn consideration to possibly return

 

Enough is enough 

It’s not handball - see above WSM

All these different interpretations of the laws is really confusing. 

[Fammyfan]

I think there’s got to be an element of how much impact an incident happens and not just whether it’s hit the arm or whether it’s technically a foul. By this I mean the decisions that do not appear to have any clear intent.

Take tonight for example, it hits the chest and then the arm. The cross had already been blocked by the chest and the ball was no longer heading into dangerous territory so the ball hitting the arm hasn’t really disadvantaged PSG. (Had the cross directly hit the arm, it’s a dangerous cross blocked by an arm away from the body which should rightfully be given)

Last night, Wilson would have sprinted the ball out to the wing and it should be considered that he hasn’t been denied a substantial opportunity. Granted he’s been denied possession but there’s got to be some common sense applied in the sense that it’s more of a coming together and on that basis you’ve got to be looking for a decision that won’t be hugely impacting.

VAR is supposed to intervene for clear and obvious errors. Yet, had the penalty decision not been given at the end of the game last night, I can’t see that there would have been a huge amount of outrage, which would indicate that the initial decision to give a penalty was not a clear and obvious error.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Fammyfan

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Fammyfan said:

I think there’s got to be an element of how much impact an incident happens and not just whether it’s hit the arm or it’s a foul. By this I mean the decisions that do not appear to have any clear intent.

Take tonight for example, it hits the chest and then the arm. The cross had already been blocked by the chest so the ball hitting the arm hasn’t really disadvantaged PSG. (Had the cross directly hit the arm, it’s a dangerous cross blocked by an arm away from the body which should rightfully be given)

Last night, Wilson would have sprinted the ball out to the wing and it should be considered that he hasn’t been denied a substantial opportunity. Granted he’s been denied possession but there’s got to be some common sense applied in the sense that it’s more of a coming together and on that basis you’ve got to be looking for a decision that won’t be hugely impacting.

VAR is supposed to intervene for clear and obvious errors. Yet, had the penalty decision not been given at the end of the game last night, I can’t see that there would have been a huge amount of outrage, which would indicate that the initial decision to give a penalty was not a clear and obvious error.

But it stopped the ball getting to Mbappe who was lurking behind who would be likely to score from that position. 

[Fammyfan]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But it stopped the ball getting to Mbappe who was lurking behind who would be likely to score from that position. 

Even with a player of Mbappe’s quality, I don’t think he’d have got there ahead of Livramento after it hits the chest

[Harry]

Back to the wolves one last night. 
Players need to take responsibility. 
And the refs need to understand when they are being conned. 
 

Look at that first one where Cairney is ‘fouled’. 
Even though the wolves player made contact with the ball, let’s just say he DID make contact with Cairney’s left toe. 
If contact to the left toe is what is being judged, then how did this minor contact prevent Cairney from planting his RIGHT FOOT. 

LEFT toe touched DOES NOT mean you can’t plant your RIGHT foot! 

Cairney has purposely collapsed his body by not planting his right foot after his left toe was tickled. 
 

Surely the ref should look at that and conclude that the player has flopped and is therefore attempting to con the referee. The decision from VAR should be to book Cairney. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

On 28/11/2023 at 06:30, petehinton said:

Always really liked him since being a manager. Extremely articulate and clearly a very good coach too. 

Said it before, we'd've been better off in 2016/17 with LJ with his boots back on in midfield and GO'N in the "technical" area as HC .....

[Super]

Last night was a disgrace that decision is nonsense. Bin it off ffs.

[frenchred]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not sure. His hands were by his side and that was fine. He then lifted his arm when the ball was kicked and that's when the ball hit his arm so unfortunately it was hand ball because he made his body bigger.

The outrage by the likes of McCoist is hilarious. What they don't realise that they're doing is actually arguing that the laws are wrong. 

If you seriously think that's a penalty then I'm afraid your knowledge of football is sadly lacking!

[Northern Red]

That's not a penalty last night, however the threshold for handball seems to be lower in European competition for some reason. Can think of at least 3 or 4 involving English clubs in the CL this season that wouldn't have been given in the PL.

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, frenchred said:

If you seriously think that's a penalty then I'm afraid your knowledge of football is sadly lacking!

It's a penalty according to the laws and UEFAs interpretation of those laws. 

What you're doing is arguing that it shouldn't be a law without you realising that's what's you're doing. 

[Markthehorn]

50 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

That's not a penalty last night, however the threshold for handball seems to be lower in European competition for some reason. Can think of at least 3 or 4 involving English clubs in the CL this season that wouldn't have been given in the PL.

I suppose these refs probably think they will get into trouble if they don’t follow the guidelines set by their masters at the top rather than use common sense .

[Cowshed]

16 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I don't know if the rules have been changed but I thought even the intention of doing a headbutt was a red card offence? So simply the movement of the head towards the player. 

The laws have not changed. A attempted headbutt is violent conduct, and contact is not necessary.

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct (thefa.com)

[Ian M]

13 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Penalty ( ‘Handball’ )against Newcastle in 6thmin of added on time in Paris

 

Their have been dozens of farcical decisions in recent years , but we might have a winner

Outrageous , farcical , laughable and makes the game a complete nonsense , and utter joke

Disgraceful

WTF

Every time I see someone say that sort of thing, I check against Wolves... and yes, they had had an identical penalty awarded against them this season by VAR. 

[Mattredrobin]

VAR really killing my passion for football I have no team in the Prem so it shouldn't bother me as much as it should.....but it does we shouldn't be talking about decisions 3-4 days later on things 

The laws don't help at all they need ripping up and re writing.

[Clutton Caveman]

On 28/11/2023 at 10:34, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I think they've ****** up the rules of the game in a quest for perfection.

• The flow is gone.
• The decisions are still questionable.
• The offside lines are mathematically questionable.

It needs fixing as it's a joke, as it is.  Slow disjointed and often wrong, at least the injustice at this level is because the ref is just shit.

https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/motion-capture-reveals-why-var-in-football-struggles-with-offside-decisions/

It's an interesting read 

The refs were bad enough before but now that many of them are required for VAR the ones on the pitch are even worse. I wonder why recently retired refs can't do VAR

[Northern Red]

3 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

The refs were bad enough before but now that many of them are required for VAR the ones on the pitch are even worse. I wonder why recently retired refs can't do VAR

Some of them do and have been just as bad at that. E.g Lee Mason being sacked last season for forgetting to draw the lines on an offside that was wrongly awarded.

[Cowshed]

8 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

The refs were bad enough before but now that many of them are required for VAR the ones on the pitch are even worse. I wonder why recently retired refs can't do VAR

Ex referees do.

[Markthehorn]

13 minutes ago, Mattredrobin said:

VAR really killing my passion for football I have no team in the Prem so it shouldn't bother me as much as it should.....but it does we shouldn't be talking about decisions 3-4 days later on things 

The laws don't help at all they need ripping up and re writing.

Like handball just being handball or offside is offside ?

Not did it hit that part of his body or were they deliberately going for the ball etc which is all subjective.

[GrahamC]

19 hours ago, Bris Red said:

All the game ever needed was goal line technology IMHO, var has been a complete mess unsurprisingly.

100%.

One isolated incident aside (Aston Villa, I think) where it wasn’t working, this has been flawless.

Remember Wells’ goal at Blackburn, this innovation has been a success.

VAR is far too open to interpretation, we quickly moved away from clear & obvious error into complete guesswork.

Also hard to avoid the thought that it is being inconsistently applied. Liverpool created a media frenzy over an “error” in a game of theirs but the reality is they, Man City, Chelsea, Man U benefit far more often from it, sides like Wolves, Bournemouth, Burnley & Luton have had loads more contentious decisions go against them.

[Mattredrobin]

39 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

Like handball just being handball or offside is offside ?

Not did it hit that part of his body or were they deliberately going for the ball etc which is all subjective.

It mainly comes down to common sense doesn't it really Look at the Wolves one against Man Utd when Onana clattered the wolves player that was a stonewall penalty. I've not seen the Newcastle pen from last night only seen a still picture of it. so can't comment on that to much but there have been handballs where the player cannot get his hand out of the way, so common sense should tell a qualified ref wether it be on the pitch or sat in a room that it shouldn't be given, but the rule changes mean they have to consider everything. 

The offside thing is a tough one offside is offside of course but if VAR is used for clear and obvious errors how the hell is an on field linesman meant to know if a players toe nail is offside and if you need lines to decide that then its clearly not an error. I don't know what the answers are TBH. But the reasons i go to City and get passionate about it is for us to get to the top league and play some of the best teams in the world and ok people might say we wouldn't beat them anyway but, VAR is punishing teams unfairly and I would hate that to be city.

[MarcusX]

 

On 28/11/2023 at 07:23, East End Old Boy said:

Stuart Attwell was the VAR “official” and took so long reviewing surely proves nothing was clear and obvious. Also surprised there wasn’t an intervention for a red!

I think this is where it’s frustrating, if you need 5 minutes to review it then it probably wasn’t a clear and obvious error.

Been lots of examples lately of weird decisions though - for and against England last week (Kane “dive”, Maguire foul was a pen and the handball wasn’t IMO)

I don’t think it’s working in its current state and it’s an awful experience for a fan in the ground

[MarcusX]

23 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Wolves deserve at least a point from yesterdays game. Nobody can disagree with that. So just give them a point. It lessens the mistake. 

You can’t give results based on perceived deservedness 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, GrahamC said:

100%.

One isolated incident aside (Aston Villa, I think) where it wasn’t working, this has been flawless.

Remember Wells’ goal at Blackburn, this innovation has been a success.

VAR is far too open to interpretation, we quickly moved away from clear & obvious error into complete guesswork.

Also hard to avoid the thought that it is being inconsistently applied. Liverpool created a media frenzy over an “error” in a game of theirs but the reality is they, Man City, Chelsea, Man U benefit far more often from it, sides like Wolves, Bournemouth, Burnley & Luton have had loads more contentious decisions go against them.

Outside of those.

Brighton last year, you can add to that- some of the calls against them were amazingly bad.

On the flipside, Aston Villa seem to be very much beneficiaries of it this sesson.

[And Its Smith]

42 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

You can’t give results based on perceived deservedness 

And giving results on perceived penalties is fine?  Guess the apology will have to do 

Edited November 29, 2023 by And Its Smith

[Mr Popodopolous]

The Newcastle VAR penalty official has been stood down.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Also potentially of interest.

[W-S-M Seagull]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The Newcastle VAR penalty official has been stood down.

Livramento's arm position wasn't extended away from his body and was a consequence of his body movement, so shouldn't have been a handball offence.

Hmmm I disagree. His arm was by his side as he was running, as the ball was kicked he lifts his arm which then blocks the pass. 

It's that movement of the arm which imo is why the ref has given it. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67592553

Not clear.and obvious....... Hmmmmm