It’s poaching season - Stoke appoint Schumacher

[BCFCGav]

As above. Plymouth fans currently ‘Oxfording’ - though they’re calling Schumacher a ‘rat’, where I believe our Liam was a ‘snake’.

[Club and Country]

Plymouth fans are fuming... welcome to the championship/ premier league food chain where money talks 

can't blame him at all for going probably doubling his money 

[East Londoner]

Is a brave move as Stoke have got a reputation as a managerial graveyard last few years, but it is closer to home for him 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I notice Stoke have classed him as Head Coach not Manager.

Increasing trend certainly and a break from the norm for then.

[xerox6060]

Stoke is a graveyard for managers of late, Schumacher was building something nicely at Plymouth as was Jones at Luton...I expect moving back up north was a contributory factor though...

[And Its Smith]

I would assume a big pay rise and a much bigger club.  Stoke fans not happy either.  Good move for him as even if he gets sacked with a pay off he wouldn’t have done his reputation too much damage. If he transforms them then it’s a great move. Stoke fans certainly believe their squad is better than the results. Good luck to him 

[Dolman Block B]

Wouldn’t be at all surprised if Plymouth had interest in Nigel Pearson 

[petehinton]

Can only assume it’s because it’s closer to Liverpool & money. No one is going to change that club, yet so many keep trying. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I would assume a big pay rise and a much bigger club.  Stoke fans not happy either.  Good move for him as even if he gets sacked with a pay off he wouldn’t have done his reputation too much damage. If he transforms them then it’s a great move. Stoke fans certainly believe their squad is better than the results. Good luck to him 

Why good luck to him.

Shouldn't want any of our opponents who are potential rivals for a medium term play-off tilt to do well..he does well, Stoke do well...and their fans are fairly objectionable, elements of the club are too.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[And Its Smith]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Why good luck to him.

Shouldn't want any of our opponents who are potential rivals for a medium term play-off tilt to do well..he does well, Stoke do well...and their fans are fairly objectionable, elements of the club are too.

Seems like a really good guy.  Ambitious young English manager working his way up the ladder.  Hope he does well for himself.  I understand you and others might disagree. When I was younger I’d have thought the same as you but too old and calm now to let that sort of thing bother me!

[cidercity1987]

Can anyone explain to me why Stoke are thought of as a big Championship club? They aren't on the level of WBA, Norwich, Boro let alone the likes of Leeds, Sunderland etc

Ultimately they are a club like us and let's say Cardiff, with a similar size of fanbase despite years to grow it in the Prem, rich owners but don't we all and from a totally nondescript place.

I wouldn't have expected us to be able to poach Schumacher and yet Stoke have. Seems strange to me.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Seems like a really good guy.  Ambitious young English manager working his way up the ladder.  Hope he does well for himself.  I understand you and others might disagree. When I was younger I’d have thought the same as you but too old and calm now to let that sort of thing bother me!

That's fair. Yes nice to see more young English managers getting their chance. Plymouth at home especially under him played quite an entertaining brand of football.

Yes we all mellow a bit, I get that. I'm calmer than a decade ago, antics less wacky etc.

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Can anyone explain to me why Stoke are thought of as a big Championship club? They aren't on the level of WBA, Norwich, Boro let alone the likes of Leeds, Sunderland etc

Ultimately they are a club like us and let's say Cardiff, with a similar size of fanbase despite years to grow it in the Prem, rich owners but don't we all and from a totally nondescript place.

I wouldn't have expected us to be able to poach Schumacher and yet Stoke have. Seems strange to me.

I think it’s because they’ve spent 11 of the last 16 years in the premier league including some European football.  We’ve spent 0 years in the top flight in over 40 years 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Can anyone explain to me why Stoke are thought of as a big Championship club? They aren't on the level of WBA, Norwich, Boro let alone the likes of Leeds, Sunderland etc

Ultimately they are a club like us and let's say Cardiff, with a similar size of fanbase despite years to grow it in the Prem, rich owners but don't we all and from a totally nondescript place.

I wouldn't have expected us to be able to poach Schumacher and yet Stoke have. Seems strange to me.

They have surely had a lot more years in the top 2 divisions than us but I know what you mean.

We could be a step up for Schumacher, had we made a play. It is perhaps because a prospective manager knows they will be backed up to or close to financial limits. Here it isn't so clearcut these days.

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

As above. Plymouth fans currently ‘Oxfording’ - though they’re calling Schumacher a ‘rat’, where I believe our Liam was a ‘snake’.

Schumacer is somebody i wish we went for to be honest. Can see him being be a good appointment for Stoke.

As for Plymouth fans unfortunately he was always going to go as soon as a bigger club came calling IMO. No disrespect to them but they are punching above their weight being at this level.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Bris Red

[cidercity1987]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

I think it’s because they’ve spent 11 of the last 16 years in the premier league including some European football.  We’ve spent 0 years in the top flight in over 40 years 

Does the past equate to future possibilities? We are hamstrung by the Bristol City inertia but side by side in the midtable they have nothing we don't have

[Rocking Red Cyril]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

As above. Plymouth fans currently ‘Oxfording’ - though they’re calling Schumacher a ‘rat’, where I believe our Liam was a ‘snake’.

Define 'rat' & 'snake'

[Loosey Boy]

A job for Warnock?

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Does the past equate to future possibilities? We are hamstrung by the Bristol City inertia but side by side in the midtable they have nothing we don't have

You asked why they are seen as bigger.  I think it’s pretty obvious they are bigger than us.  They have the Premier League pedigree and more money.  They will be back there before we get there.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

They are somewhat pumped up by related sponsorship by Bet365, I wonder about a Fair Value test there. Albeit they do sponsor a lot, naming rights could boost ours.

Their income is about the same as us give or take a bit.

The loopholes they used are not repeatable, hope they go down. Arrogant and chippy yet ignorant fans too.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[redkev]

1 hour ago, xerox6060 said:

Stoke is a graveyard for managers of late, Schumacher was building something nicely at Plymouth as was Jones at Luton...I expect moving back up north was a contributory factor though...

There’s moving back up north then there’s moving to Stoke two very different things 

Edited December 19, 2023 by redkev

[bobbyhutchscurlymullet]

Leighton Baines the early favourite for the Plymouth job. Bit left field that

[cidercity1987]

3 minutes ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Leighton Baines the early favourite for the Plymouth job. Bit left field that

I saw a poll on Pasoti earlier, unlike most clubs Pearson was quite popular as a choice 

[hollydog]

44 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Can anyone explain to me why Stoke are thought of as a big Championship club? They aren't on the level of WBA, Norwich, Boro let alone the likes of Leeds, Sunderland etc

Ultimately they are a club like us and let's say Cardiff, with a similar size of fanbase despite years to grow it in the Prem, rich owners but don't we all and from a totally nondescript place.

I wouldn't have expected us to be able to poach Schumacher and yet Stoke have. Seems strange to me.

More seasons in top flight (62) than any of Leeds, Boro or Norwich including 10 consecutive in premier league with cup final appearance and European campaigns during same period. Also founder members of the Football League and Auto Windscreen Shield Winners 2002. 

[kit]

9 minutes ago, hollydog said:

More seasons in top flight (62) than any of Leeds, Boro or Norwich including 10 consecutive in premier league with cup final appearance and European campaigns during same period. Also founder members of the Football League and Auto Windscreen Shield Winners 2002. 

But like most pokey clubs they have been relegated out of the football league previously.

[Super]

Managers/players will always move to bigger clubs. Hopefully they get someone in who will make sure they stay up.

[Simon bristol]

I spend quite a lot of time in the stoke area, my other half is up there,, there really isnt an explanation of why they should have had so much time in the top league,,, obviously the coates family has a lot to do with it over recent times,, but its not a wealthy city, the city has 2 clubs, much like bristol, so support is split, the stadium is 20 odd years old now and isnt brilliant, but they are correctly regarded as a next level up club than us… perhaps it is the hostile environment, and aggressive will to win that we just dont have that makes the difference?

[Baba Yaga]

Maybe a bigger part of the gamble was that he thought he had taken Plymouth as far as he could? Rather than the allure of Stoke which as people have already said isn't all that.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

Going off on a tangent Swansea linked with Luke Williams as their new manager.

[The Nest Egg]

1 hour ago, hollydog said:

More seasons in top flight (62) than any of Leeds, Boro or Norwich including 10 consecutive in premier league with cup final appearance and European campaigns during same period. Also founder members of the Football League and Auto Windscreen Shield Winners 2002. 

Going to have to be pedantic and say it was the Auto Windscreens Shield 2000!

I only know that because I have our shirt from it...

[BCFCGav]

1 hour ago, hollydog said:

More seasons in top flight (62) than any of Leeds, Boro or Norwich including 10 consecutive in premier league with cup final appearance and European campaigns during same period. Also founder members of the Football League and Auto Windscreen Shield Winners 2002. 

Sod European football, the EFL Trophy win clinches it the mighty reds have three!

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Perhaps Delilah is his favourite song. 

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Wouldn’t be at all surprised if Plymouth had interest in Nigel Pearson 

I would

I Think people really over egg how well Pearson did here. He did an ok job - I don’t think he will manage again , let alone in the Championship 

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

You asked why they are seen as bigger.  I think it’s pretty obvious they are bigger than us.  They have the Premier League pedigree and more money.  They will be back there before we get there.  

I know this has become a stock thing to say (I’ve seen others claim that Plymouth & Wrexham will get there before us) but in the last 5 seasons we have finished above Stoke more often than they have finished above us & they have never even been in the top half, despite having parachute payments for 3 years of that, so I genuinely have no idea what you are basing this on.

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I know this has become a stock thing to say (I’ve seen others claim that Plymouth & Wrexham will get there before us) but in the last 5 seasons we have finished above Stoke more often than they have finished above us & they have never even been in the top half, despite having parachute payments for 3 years of that, so I genuinely have no idea what you are basing this on.

Possibly by the wider football world though?

A lot of the wider football world seem to think Steve Cooper is a top manager e.g. for some reason as well as being fairly lukewarm on NP.

The fawning over the former today has been quite something, a load of crap really..including by one of our own fans. Ani Harish or something.

[FNQ]

Plymouth…now that really would be a job for Cotts.

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, The Nest Egg said:

Going to have to be pedantic and say it was the Auto Windscreens Shield 2000!

I only know that because I have our shirt from it...

Me too, the ref and the cheating bar stewards who took the free kick as we were preparing will always make me remember that the footballing world spits on our club. 

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

I would

I Think people really over egg how well Pearson did here. He did an ok job - I don’t think he will manage again , let alone in the Championship 

He did an amazing job of turning this underachieving oil tanker of a club around , culture wise, all with no little success on the pitch considering the constraints of reducing wages and the sale of his best players.

We will never know if he could have taken us higher as we all know what wicked Uncle Steve did but most suspect that we would be in touching distance of the playoffs if he had been supported by him and not undermined. 
 

[And Its Smith]

8 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I know this has become a stock thing to say (I’ve seen others claim that Plymouth & Wrexham will get there before us) but in the last 5 seasons we have finished above Stoke more often than they have finished above us & they have never even been in the top half, despite having parachute payments for 3 years of that, so I genuinely have no idea what you are basing this on.

We’ve also finished above Ipswich for many seasons. 

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We’ve also finished above Ipswich for many seasons. 

We did.

Stoke have had parachute payments, a succession of managers who have done well elsewhere yet totally failed with them & a huge wage bill.

They have still consistently ****** up, I know some on here are desperate to say every other club will overtake us, in Ipswich’s case that looks highly likely, there are no grounds (beyond the Pulis era, fast disappearing into the distance) to suggest that Stoke will.

[Kid in the Riot]

8 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

I would

I Think people really over egg how well Pearson did here. He did an ok job - I don’t think he will manage again , let alone in the Championship 

He certainly won't be back managing for a while as he isn't well enough to do so, a point that some in our fanbase still seem in denial about. 

Euell will likely return to the game the fastest, but the other three, who knows?

[W-S-M Seagull]

11 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Schumacer is somebody i wish we went for to be honest. Can see him being be a good appointment for Stoke.

As for Plymouth fans unfortunately he was always going to go as soon as a bigger club came calling IMO. No disrespect to them but they are punching above their weight being at this level.

I think that is slightly disrespectful. They've earned their right to be at this level and they pull in 16k each week which I believe isn't too dissimilar to what we got pre redevelopment.

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He certainly won't be back managing for a while as he isn't well enough to do so, a point that some in our fanbase still seem in denial about. 

Euell will likely return to the game the fastest, but the other three, who knows?

Rennie is a completely different case isn’t he?

His skills are transferable outside of football (indeed sport) so he could pick up work now if he wanted.

My understanding is Curtis’ family home is in the North East (& he also has a property in Italy), he has a sound reputation as an assistant so doubt he would be waiting too long for offers.

Nige as you say is concentrating on returning to health, I don’t think any of us know exactly how he is right now but if I was a betting man on balance I do think he’ll manage again.

[Swede]

As a head coach he probably won't have the same autonomy as he had at Plymouth so straightaway that is a big hurdle to overcome.

The differences between us and Stoke is that the hierarchy at Stoke know how to achieve success and have done so whereas ours don't. The 2008 season  showed everybody the difference between the clubs.

[Markthehorn]

The last manager they poached from Plymouth won them promotion.

Obviously hoping for the same impact - somehow !

[Bazooka Joe]

11 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Define 'rat' & 'snake'

Slightly off topic, but how about Mark is a rat, Ashton is a snake.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

We did.

Stoke have had parachute payments, a succession of managers who have done well elsewhere yet totally failed with them & a huge wage bill.

They have still consistently ****** up, I know some on here are desperate to say every other club will overtake us, in Ipswich’s case that looks highly likely, there are no grounds (beyond the Pulis era, fast disappearing into the distance) to suggest that Stoke will.

Time will tell I guess.  Hopefully you are correct.  

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Nige as you say is concentrating on returning to health, I don’t think any of us know exactly how he is right now but if I was a betting man on balance I do think he’ll manage again.

He’s down in Devon at the mo’ with his family.

I hope his recent tests achieved what he hoped.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

We did.

Stoke have had parachute payments, a succession of managers who have done well elsewhere yet totally failed with them & a huge wage bill.

They have still consistently ****** up, I know some on here are desperate to say every other club will overtake us, in Ipswich’s case that looks highly likely, there are no grounds (beyond the Pulis era, fast disappearing into the distance) to suggest that Stoke will.

They also needed to a) 'Sell' the stadium and training ground for a combined £80-85m- the old sale and leaseback in 2021 just before the rules changed (profit £32m, averaged at £16m), b) The Covid argument transfer wise nonsense.

They actually have some similar issues to us in what I've been reading, the son of the long standing owner Peter Coates is deemed not to be very good. John Coates, Peter was perhaps their driving force but is mid 80s, how hands on Idk.

Some of their fans think they would absolutely be better off and able to harness non Parachute revenue position if Denise Coates head of Bet365 ran them..far more dynamic or similar.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He’s down in Devon at the mo’ with his family.

I hope his recent tests achieved what he hoped.

Doh, he’s tweeted this morning.  You all knew anyway!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Talking of Stoke. One of the best financially run clubs in the League apparently.

Odd take.

[Baba Yaga]

35 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Talking of Stoke. One of the best financially run clubs in the League apparently.

Odd take.

Looks like their real advantage compared to the rest of the division is the sponsorship money that bet365 give them, its a good business model/financial situation from a competitive view point but will be interesting to see by how much this advantage could shrink when the ban on gambling advertising comes in force. It would be a lot harder for them to get away being a poorly run club if they didn't have an extra 5-10mn (very rough guess) a year to play with.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Looks like their real advantage compared to the rest of the division is the sponsorship money that bet365 give them, its a good business model/financial situation from a competitive view point but will be interesting to see by how much this advantage could shrink when the ban on gambling advertising comes in force. It would be a lot harder for them to get away being a poorly run club if they didn't have an extra 5-10mn (very rough guess) a year to play with.

It certainly would bite.

I've looked at their 2021-22 accounts, even with those arrangements they are £30m or so all-in turnover wise.

Given Bet365 are a Related Party I would suggest it is one for the League to look at.

Otoh we could bolster our revenue via naming rights. Stadium, HPC, individual stands etc 

[italian dave]

16 hours ago, redkev said:

There’s moving back up north then there’s moving to Stoke two very different things 

 Very true…….although I guess the perspective from Plymouth might be slightly different!

It always amuses me when we drive to somewhere like Sunderland or Middlesbrough, and you get to Leeds and see signs to “The North”! 

[Kid in the Riot]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Rennie is a completely different case isn’t he?

His skills are transferable outside of football (indeed sport) so he could pick up work now if he wanted.

My understanding is Curtis’ family home is in the North East (& he also has a property in Italy), he has a sound reputation as an assistant so doubt he would be waiting too long for offers.

Nige as you say is concentrating on returning to health, I don’t think any of us know exactly how he is right now but if I was a betting man on balance I do think he’ll manage again.

Yes, re: Rennie, hence I said return to "the game". I'm sure he's already involved with some consultancy work. 

I think Nige will certainly want to return to management but his health, and the rising trend of appointing "ipad coaches", means his options may well be very limited.

[NcnsBcfc]

16 hours ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Leighton Baines the early favourite for the Plymouth job. Bit left field that

Plymouth's DOF Neil Dewnship is an ex- Everton (Barton had a go at him for releasing him as a kid).

Through him as a club they've maintained good relations with Everton and Baines is currently their U18 coach.

 

[Baba Yaga]

41 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It certainly would bite.

I've looked at their 2021-22 accounts, even with those arrangements they are £30m or so all-in turnover wise.

Given Bet365 are a Related Party I would suggest it is one for the League to look at.

Otoh we could bolster our revenue via naming rights. Stadium, HPC, individual stands etc 

Comparing them to other non parachute clubs that season 21/22. Forest averaged 6k more than them throughout the season and got to Wembley play off final and revenue was still 1.5mn less than Stoke. Boro just missed out on the play offs but got to Old Trafford in the cup, then in next rounds had home ties against Spurs and Chelsea and Stoke still had more than 4mn revenue than them finishing 14th and no big cup ties. It will be interesting to see 22/23 comparisons but at that time it seems like Bet365 were hugely altering the competitiveness of them, personally I don't have a problem with that but a little surprised they can get away with it.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Baba Yaga

[NcnsBcfc]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

We did.

Stoke have had parachute payments, a succession of managers who have done well elsewhere yet totally failed with them & a huge wage bill.

They have still consistently ****** up, I know some on here are desperate to say every other club will overtake us, in Ipswich’s case that looks highly likely, there are no grounds (beyond the Pulis era, fast disappearing into the distance) to suggest that Stoke will.

Plymouth ST at work has said that Stoke quadrupled Schumacher's salary, as well of that of all the other coaches and backroom staff that have left with him.

They certainly much be big payers of managers as they convinced Jones to leave Luton, Neil to leave Sunderland and O'Neill to go from Northern Ireland job (where he were over achieving by the look of it).

Has their covid clawbacks finally been accepted by the EFL @Mr Popodopolous? They seem to think that they were impacted to a far far greater degree than any other EFL club .

[Lrrr]

The industry rarely shows loyalty to people in it so it’s unsurprising when the people in it choose to advance themselves when opportunities arise. Look at people like Bonner at Cambridge who turned down jobs, all it takes is a change in fortunes and poor form for a while for you to be sacked. Higher salary, closer to Liverpool again so not surprising Schumacher has taken the chance. 

[hollydog]

15 hours ago, The Nest Egg said:

Going to have to be pedantic and say it was the Auto Windscreens Shield 2000!

I only know that because I have our shirt from it...

Pedantry is a quality imo. (At least when it comes to football)

[Andy082005]

10 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

He did an amazing job of turning this underachieving oil tanker of a club around , culture wise, all with no little success on the pitch considering the constraints of reducing wages and the sale of his best players.

We will never know if he could have taken us higher as we all know what wicked Uncle Steve did but most suspect that we would be in touching distance of the playoffs if he had been supported by him and not undermined. 
 

Hadn’t won back to back games in over 30 games - but you think he would have had us within touching distance of the play offs 

As you say - we will never know, but based on common sense - Id say we wouldn’t be any where near the top 6

ridiculous claims

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Andy082005

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Hadn’t won back to back games in over 30 games - but you think he would have had us within touching distance of the play offs 

As you say - we will never know, but based on common sense - Id say we wouldn’t be any where near the top 6

ridiculous claims

 

5 points off when sacked, 4 points after Fleming's final act.

I'd say we weren't far away and especially with players returning from injury a challenge for Manning is to keep us within a certain range.

A target could be 63-65 points, perhaps 60 if we are being a bit generous and excluding the Fleming game.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[E.G.Red]

21 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Wouldn’t be at all surprised if Plymouth had interest in Nigel Pearson 

Not  Nigel I believe he would want to sort out his health issues first, but I could see 'Colin' going there 

Edited December 20, 2023 by E.G.Red

[Natchfever]

5 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

Hadn’t won back to back games in over 30 games - but you think he would have had us within touching distance of the play offs 

As you say - we will never know, but based on common sense - Id say we wouldn’t be any where near the top 6

ridiculous claims

 

Have to agree with the squad at his disposal.

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

Comparing them to other non parachute clubs that season 21/22. Forest averaged 6k more than them throughout the season and got to Wembley play off final and revenue was still 1.5mn less than Stoke. Boro just missed out on the play offs but got to Old Trafford in the cup, then in next rounds had home ties against Spurs and Chelsea and Stoke still had more than 4mn revenue than them finishing 14th and no big cup ties. It will be interesting to see 22/23 comparisons but at that time it seems like Bet365 were hugely altering the competitiveness of them, personally I don't have a problem with that but a little surprised they can get away with it.

The key test for such transactions is, whether the transactions with the Related Party are Fair Value, ie what they could get on the Open Market.

Name your price to a degree in the PL but at Championship level now into Year 6, that is very different. Not even a top half finish in 5 prior years.

They had a similar turnover to us ie at the BCFC Holdings level but we know the huge hard work we have done on the matchday side post redevelopment plus Bristol itself is a reasonably commercial city- dunno whether Stoke is, I doubt it.

Feels a somewhat overstated. Naming rights etc do being an intrinsic value which neither us, Middlesbrough or Nottingham Forest have of course.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Has their covid clawbacks finally been accepted by the EFL @Mr Popodopolous? They seem to think that they were impacted to a far far greater degree than any other EFL club .

It's gone awfully quiet on that hasn't it.

The Stoke variant of Covid along with that of Goodison was clearly worse than anywhere, £59-60m is a nonsense for a purely EFL club albeit one who will have had some Parachute Payment clawback. Moving between the PL and Championship say Fulham is more complex granted.

Nottingham Forest put in for around £28m in the 3 years a chunk of which was transfer related and to be fair to them they did sell players frequently before Covid such as Cash etc so maybe.

Stoke though were not huge sellers but £30m in Covid impairment 2019-20, £10-11m in supposed impact of unable to sell certain players 2020-21 and £2-3m in 2021-22. In theory Covid still covers periods under analysis so the EFL can pull sides up down the line.

The other add-backs look normal. Transfer market related add-backs for Covid really do deserve referral though, I do hope new Betting in football legislation comes in- should impact them a bit.