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Watford away match thread


Jerseybean

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Just now, chinapig said:

I was shocked at how bad Watford's defending was especially down their right side.

This seemed to be a weakness Manning spotted as we overloaded our left side. Nice work if so.

Obvious tactic from the get go. Asprilla doesn’t track back and Manning played on that.

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12 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I think everyone understands the TGH ‘deal’.  Ian Gay says it’s done. He wasn’t talking about Murphy.  I disagree it’s done. I still reckon it needs to get done. 

Not sure there's anything to stop the TGH deal being completed apart from City suddenly deciding they don't want to.

Nothing is impossible but that would be a massive surprise and surely extremely unlikely.

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20 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I don't know how anyone else saw it but I saw it as he came in and didn't really know what he had here or who we were. I think his perception of us was maybe skewed by our two games against Oxford this season. 

There was also a bad feeling around the club following the previous events. 

But he came in and immediately changed our style to one that didn't suit our players. His style was control possession, control the game etc etc. 

He realised that wasn't working so he took us back to a more familiar style which plays to our strengths. Today we had 41% possession for example. 

I've always said he needed to enhance upon how we were playing, not rip it up and start again and I'm glad he quickly learned from that mistake. 

 

 

 

This is my feelings too.

What we’ve seen last couple of games is slightly different to what he tried to do straight away and I said that after Fridays game.

He also made some odd player selections, TGH, Sykes out of position etc

Theres a clear style and patterns of play forming (little triangles, off the ball movement, the same inside pass we saw a few times today - one I remember for Sykes’ narrow miss at 3-1).

It’s not perfect, we were sloppy and lost it in risky places at times but that’ll come.

He’s adapted well to a slow (and some will say poor) start, that’s a positive for me.

 

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10 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

To be fair, he showed no sign of it in any of those games. And it was the first six.

We’re not playing the style that LM tried to enforce on the side. If we were, I’ve no doubt we wouldn’t have won the last three. He dropped a ball by doing what he did to start with and it’s why teams figured us out mid game and he couldn’t change it. There was much excitement in some quarters that we were moving up the possession charts but it’s always been - and always will be - about playing to your squads strengths. In fact, I’m sure I started a thread titled that post Boro!

He may go back to the heavy possession game. But I think he himself would admit he tried to change too much far too quickly. This is really going back to what plan A should always have been.

With respect (and I do rate you as a poster) this sounds like arse-covering on your part. 

If we take your explanation on face value then what is the reason for Manning producing our best non-possession-dominant performance in years then?

What was Nige doing so wrong, tactically or otherwise, that he could not achieve similar heights in 2.5 years?

FWIW I don't accept your explanation and find it rather arrogant that you think you identified problems with Mannings first three games, coincidentally he identified the same issues. You suggested the solutions (don't change things too fast) Manning agreed, and magically we are better. 

Maybe @Harry who saw the positive signs early doors, was right all along!

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5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Not sure there's anything to stop the TGH deal being completed apart from City suddenly deciding they don't want to.

Nothing is impossible but that would be a massive surprise and surely extremely unlikely.

Yes very unlikely as my original post on it implied. I said “imagine we didn’t sign him”.  Hopefully it gets done soon 

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16 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Don’t be fooled by that. We gubbed a very decent side today. This was a game where OUR performance forced them to be poor.

Yes agree .

And you took your chances not allowing us back in the game .

Our defence can be suspect tbh particularly when playing out from the back.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m going to say again - less possession (42%) and less passes than the opposition but doing a lot more with it. Playing with pace and winning the ball high up the pitch. It’s a different team stylistically from the Boro, QPR, Norwich, Hudds games. That Blackburn game was the rubicon - senior players moaning on Robins TV and when we played more assertive second half, we looked like something.

Its to LMs huge credit that he’s realised plan A wasn’t working and wasn’t likely to work so played to the strengths of the squad. That really gives confidence that a key question over him has been answered. Fantastic stuff today.

The press was good / very good today.

Started off with Knight sitting on Livermore (4231), meaning they couldn’t play off of him, then once we realised he wasn’t offering anything we went back 442 and made life so uncomfortable for them.  Hoedt and Sierralta gave up countless passes.

How many balls did Williams intercept second half?  Seemed like hundreds!!!

There was very little passing for passing’s sake today and Friday.  Lots of purpose.

Very enjoyable.  I’m actually a tad disappointed we didn’t pump them 6 or 7.  That’s not a very common feeling.

Let’s hope Stoke ruin any crumb of confidence Brum have (2-0 down) ahead of Friday.

Well done LM and the rest of them tonight.

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2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

With respect (and I do rate you as a poster) this sounds like arse-covering on your part. 

If we take your explanation on face value then what is the reason for Manning producing our best non-possession-dominant performance in years then?

What was Nige doing so wrong, tactically or otherwise, that he could not achieve similar heights in 2.5 years?

FWIW I don't accept your explanation and find it rather arrogant that you think you identified problems with Mannings first three games, coincidentally he identified the same issues. You suggested the solutions (don't change things too fast) Manning agreed, and magically we are better. 

Maybe @Harry who saw the positive signs early doors, was right all along!

Tbf mate we all need to have a degree of arrogance to post on here and put our opinions out there!

I’m happy that LM has identified the reasons why things weren’t right in the first six, and it’s not arse covering to state that a lot of us identified the issue early. To be fair, even though Liams a self confessed football anorak, he hasn’t had the benefit of watching the side for years and knowing - as I think yourself, Harry, Fevs and me amongst others stated - we didn’t have the players for that. And I maintain that in the first games because he wanted to implement that style we got combatted too easily - it’s not revisionism, just what happened.

As for why he has (definitely) produced our best performance of that type for a number of years then I do think it’s minor tweaks. The overloading of the Watford right hand side today, the showing great courage by having the guts to play in their half (both today and Hull where it was nobody even within our half), the making Conway hold position more. All coming together well and doubtless some I haven’t seen.

It’s definitely a reign of two halves to date as the pathway (Swansea-ish) we were going down wasn’t working. As I said earlier, immense credit for seeing it but those signs definitely weren’t there at the start as it was a fundamentally different style!

 

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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m going to say again - less possession (42%) and less passes than the opposition but doing a lot more with it. Playing with pace and winning the ball high up the pitch. It’s a different team stylistically from the Boro, QPR, Norwich, Hudds games. That Blackburn game was the rubicon - senior players moaning on Robins TV and when we played more assertive second half, we looked like something.

Its to LMs huge credit that he’s realised plan A wasn’t working and wasn’t likely to work so played to the strengths of the squad. That really gives confidence that a key question over him has been answered. Fantastic stuff today.

No one can say with a straight face that our past 3 performances were the same as the games against QPR etc. 

He said after the Blackburn I think it was that he felt he had overloaded them with information. That was almost an admission that he had got his approach slightly wrong. 

What we are seeing now should always have been the plan A. Hopefully later on in the season his plan A doesn't cost us. But huge credit for changing his approach. Not many managers would do that out of pride. 

 

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36 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I think everyone understands the TGH ‘deal’.  Ian Gay says it’s done. He wasn’t talking about Murphy.  I disagree it’s done. I still reckon it needs to get done. 

When / where did he say that?  On twitter or BBCRB (post-match) today?

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26 minutes ago, One Team said:

In the post match scenes it sounds like Manning says “I’m not going to ******* bounce”! 😂😂

Bit of disagreement on X on whether he's saying 'You don't fxxxing bounce when we're losing' or 'I'll fxxxing bounce when we do something'. Either way they've taken the video down and reposted an edited version - but not before someone saved a clip of it of course! 

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2 minutes ago, CardiffRed said:

What? Very strange post.

Brilliant from Manning, 3 wins from 3, when was the last time we did that anyone? 

The important part for me isn’t 3 from 3, it’s the fact that we went from a win against Sunderland where we were second best for most of the game to a win against Hull where they were still the better side overall to a win at a strong side where we controlled the game from start to finish. The upturn in performance is what we need and what he has delivered over the three games.

Points scoring on here is daft. Enjoying the improvement and the results going hand in hand isn’t.

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13 minutes ago, PhilC said:

Such a shame OTIB in fighting has made its way in to the match day thread...

It is. Everyone can have a nice evening and look forwArd to a drive up to Birmingham. But nope some have to be miserable! 

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23 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

With respect (and I do rate you as a poster) this sounds like arse-covering on your part. 

If we take your explanation on face value then what is the reason for Manning producing our best non-possession-dominant performance in years then?

What was Nige doing so wrong, tactically or otherwise, that he could not achieve similar heights in 2.5 years?

FWIW I don't accept your explanation and find it rather arrogant that you think you identified problems with Mannings first three games, coincidentally he identified the same issues. You suggested the solutions (don't change things too fast) Manning agreed, and magically we are better. 

Maybe @Harry who saw the positive signs early doors, was right all along!

I tend to agree with Silvio on how we’ve played.  It’s not revisionism.  I don’t know the reasons, the issues identified, the solutions found.  That’s one for LM.

We have played differently though (in each game pretty much).  We get sucked into reflecting on results not how we played.  Have we forgotten Sunderland?  Yes, because we just see a “W” in the result column.

in every game so far, I’ve seen pros  and cons - @Harry tended to focus on the +’s..  Today was really minimal cons, a kinda complete performance, probably as complete as we are gonna get away from home.  My cons today were not being clinical and really putting Watford to the sword.  That’s a con I can live with it.

I thought Hull was very good too, more longer spells of dominance.  We didn’t deserve to be 2-1 down.

The pros and cons in other games have meant mixed performances and results.

If those two performances are the culmination of tweaks over the previous 7 games then I’m delighted.

FWIW, there are obvious outstanding individual performances today, but today was a game where Vyner did exactly what I wanted him to do…stay switched on all game, especially in a game where we were on the front foot so much.  Well done Zak.

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9 minutes ago, littlered said:

Bit of disagreement on X on whether he's saying 'You don't fxxxing bounce when we're losing' or 'I'll fxxxing bounce when we do something'. Either way they've taken the video down and reposted an edited version - but not before someone saved a clip of it of course! 

Interesting! I thought he said he wasn’t ******* bouncing. And fair play if he doesn’t TBH, that was the GJ era. The fist pumping is Manning’s early trade mark.

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

They should have kept that up! 
 

It’s an easy criticism of Manning to do the “Chat GPT” stuff so a clip like that showing personality is golddust!

Yep I agree Silvio. I’ve been very critical of his robotic style, it’s good to see him show some passion and personality. 

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10 minutes ago, littlered said:

Bit of disagreement on X on whether he's saying 'You don't fxxxing bounce when we're losing' or 'I'll fxxxing bounce when we do something'. Either way they've taken the video down and reposted an edited version - but not before someone saved a clip of it of course! 

Good, because I effing hate “bounce around”.  It’s cringe imho.

Rather we had something new / original for LM himself.

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11 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Anyone else think today Joe Williams was absolutely fantastic. My MOTM today although there were plenty of contenders.

Fair play to Liam. These last 2 games I think we've looked very good.

He's had his detractors in the past and he's had fits and starts, but I would say that that was his best 90 minute performance for the club. Always in and amongst it, be it intercepting, tackling or generally disrupting Watford's flow. 

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1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I thoroughly enjoyed the stream today, not least because I didn’t have to listen to that joker near the middle of the Dolman shouting “Get into ‘em!”, “Move!” and “Forward!” In strict rotation.

One of these came and sat behind me in the Lansdown for the first half on Friday, fortunately he then wasn't there for the second. It honestly ruined the half for me, added bonus he joined in with every song but got all the words wrong.

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17 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The important part for me isn’t 3 from 3, it’s the fact that we went from a win against Sunderland where we were second best for most of the game to a win against Hull where they were still the better side overall to a win at a strong side where we controlled the game from start to finish. The upturn in performance is what we need and what he has delivered over the three games.

Points scoring on here is daft. Enjoying the improvement and the results going hand in hand isn’t.

Couldn't agree more.  Am glad to see that there are people who are able to appreciate a result whilst accepting that we didn't necessarily play well. 

As you say, the fact that performances have begun to improve game on game is really encouraging.  Let's hope it continues!!

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Well that were bloody lovely. While the kids were all tearing into their presents (We do it a day late in my house) the only gift I wanted was three points. Nice to see Watford were in a festive mood giving us an own goal.

That’s the best all-round performance I’ve see from us since at least WBA in the cup last year. Funny how things change, when I looked at our festive fixture list after that frustrating night at Ewood, I didn’t see us picking up a point in our next three games.

OTIB 👍

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1 point away from the playoffs, however Boro in 14th are just 3 points off the playoffs.
Crazily tight as per usual and I think the top 4 are so far ahead that all the chasing pack are competing for 5th and 6th. Will be an interesting 2nd half of the season 

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1 minute ago, Red Ferret said:

Quite enjoyed how strong we were down the left hand side today. Mehmeti and Pring often overlapping each other created quite a bit of confusion for their right back. Mehmeti/Pring seem to have a good understanding 

Yeah, it was noticeable how Watford changed thongs at half time, leading to their goal. 

Cracking result and performance, at times the lads tore Watford apart. Some lovely stuff.

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18 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I thoroughly enjoyed the stream today, not least because I didn’t have to listen to that joker near the middle of the Dolman shouting “Get into ‘em!”, “Move!” and “Forward!” In strict rotation.

I have RTV sub, but watched the first 44 mins on soccer 10 stream - as I like to hear what the opposition commentators make of us.  They were good today (co-comm was Tommy Smith, their old winger), pretty complimentary.  Was refreshing.

Yep, that bloke who sits too near to the comms at home, needs moving on,

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4 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Yeah, it was noticeable how Watford changed thongs at half time, leading to their goal. 

Cracking result and performance, at times the lads tore Watford apart. Some lovely stuff.

Might explain their poor performance if they were wearing a poor choice of undergarment for championship football.

Also spellcheck has betrayed your usual conversations there @SecretSam

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1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I don't know how anyone else saw it but I saw it as he came in and didn't really know what he had here or who we were. I think his perception of us was maybe skewed by our two games against Oxford this season. 

There was also a bad feeling around the club following the previous events. 

But he came in and immediately changed our style to one that didn't suit our players. His style was control possession, control the game etc etc. 

He realised that wasn't working so he took us back to a more familiar style which plays to our strengths. Today we had 41% possession for example. 

I've always said he needed to enhance upon how we were playing, not rip it up and start again and I'm glad he quickly learned from that mistake. 

 

 

 

Don’t see anything wrong with this post at all WSM, though it still managed to land some stupid facepalm emojis, though one was totally unsurprising, considering their posts recently.

Like you and many others, I was incandescent when Nige was sacked, but said the new man deserves a clean slate, as it wasn’t him who did the sacking.  Early on, I had concerns he may be a one trick pony, for the same reason as you commented.  He came in and immediately changed our playing style to something we were completely unsuited to.  

The fact he’s realised the error and has taken us back to more like our game under NP, but with some tweaks to make us more forward thinking and dangerous around the opposition’s box is great and gives me a lot of confidence that he can be flexible and pragmatic, which can only be good for us.

Fair play to LM and today is easily his most impressive result so far, so I’m feeling far more optimistic than when he joined us.  

Today was a massive Christmas bonus for us and it’s a real shame there are still idiots attempting childish points scoring, just like we had under LJ.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I have RTV sub, but watched the first 44 mins on soccer 10 stream - as I like to hear what the opposition commentators make of us.  They were good today (co-comm was Tommy Smith, their old winger), pretty complimentary.  Was refreshing.

Yep, that bloke who sits too near to the comms at home, needs moving on,

Watched the whole thing with Watford commentary. Smith was spot on with everything today. Let’s just say it was an upgrade on most Robins TV output.

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39 minutes ago, littlered said:

Bit of disagreement on X on whether he's saying 'You don't fxxxing bounce when we're losing' or 'I'll fxxxing bounce when we do something'. Either way they've taken the video down and reposted an edited version - but not before someone saved a clip of it of course! 

@One Team is right I think . He said I’m not ******* bouncing . Good on him as well , it’s embarrassing . Let it die with the Johnson era 

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27 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I thoroughly enjoyed the stream today, not least because I didn’t have to listen to that joker near the middle of the Dolman shouting “Get into ‘em!”, “Move!” and “Forward!” In strict rotation.

I've heard him too.

FORward!

Middle, towards the back of Dolman.

Annoying.

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59 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The press was good / very good today.

Started off with Knight sitting on Livermore (4231), meaning they couldn’t play off of him, then once we realised he wasn’t offering anything we went back 442 and made life so uncomfortable for them.  Hoedt and Sierralta gave up countless passes.

How many balls did Williams intercept second half?  Seemed like hundreds!!!

There was very little passing for passing’s sake today and Friday.  Lots of purpose.

Very enjoyable.  I’m actually a tad disappointed we didn’t pump them 6 or 7.  That’s not a very common feeling.

Let’s hope Stoke ruin any crumb of confidence Brum have (2-0 down) ahead of Friday.

Well done LM and the rest of them tonight.

What's going on Fevs!?! First, you reveal you don't have spreadsheets for concerts! And now you're asking questions we rely on you for!

It's Christmas and I rely on you not being as lazy as me and coming up with cool stats! 

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28 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Don’t see anything wrong with this post at all WSM, though it still managed to land some stupid facepalm emojis, though one was totally unsurprising, considering their posts recently.

Like you and many others, I was incandescent when Nige was sacked, but said the new man deserves a clean slate, as it wasn’t him who did the sacking.  Early on, I had concerns he may be a one trick pony, for the same reason as you commented.  He came in and immediately changed our playing style to something we were completely unsuited to.  

The fact he’s realised the error and has taken us back to more like our game under NP, but with some tweaks to make us more forward thinking and dangerous around the opposition’s box is great and gives me a lot of confidence that he can be flexible and pragmatic, which can only be good for us.

Fair play to LM and today is easily his most impressive result so far, so I’m feeling far more optimistic than when he joined us.  

Today was a massive Christmas bonus for us and it’s a real shame there are still idiots attempting childish points scoring, just like we had under LJ.

I agree. That’s certainly what I see. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

What a great set of results against good sides. 

Agree, and we should definitely enjoy this run - the challenge will be when we face teams at the bottom (the ones we should beat) - will we turn up - too often in the past we have dropped points after wins against better teams - Only time will tell. 

Good demonstration of what is possible with this team against an "in form" team - Lets build and be better - looking forward to getting a few injured players back in the running for places. 

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I don't want to come back with NP and Manning stuff but the same 9 games last year, we got 14 points.

This 9 games we got..14 points.

Got them from different games but the PPG remains identical.

Slightly a shade ahead of 40% win ratio, 1.4 PPG.

However the turnaround last 3 is excellent to see, and we are back on an even keel now PPG wise, hopefully with some upward momentum.

Credit where due to Manning and the team. Great to see Mehmeti and his revival too.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't want to come back with NP and Manning stuff but the same 9 games last year, we got 14 points.

This 9 games we got..14 points.

Got them from different games but the PPG remains identical.

Slightly a shade ahead of 40% win ratio, 1.4 PPG.

However the turnaround last 3 is excellent to see, and we are back on an even keel now PPG wise, hopefully with some upward momentum.

Credit where due to Manning and the team. Great to see Mehmeti and his revival too.

Agree that lets give credit where its due and see how we fare in the next few games

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Just to point out this isn't a gloat or a dig at Watford or their fans but losing to us can make opposing managers quite sour it seems!

Granted nobody likes losing, I know I don't but losing to us can make opposing managers quite churlish.

Martin was chippy after a victory vs us, Rosenior last week was quite irritable, Dodds was a bit too.

Screenshot_20231226-193608_Chrome.thumb.jpg.9734f9a5b0a93bab3c5834c15be5421d.jpg

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