Millwall at home match thread

[1team]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We didn't look well coached today

 

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We didn't look well coached today

Those who have been aghast at the NP situation are now justifiably feeling smug. There was no need for the change and now the new manager bounce has finished we have reverted back to what we are, an inconsistent mid table team. I am 60 years into supporting this club, 30 as a season ticket holder and 15 as a season ticket holder with my children so I feel its my team. I might not have billions but a significant amount of my time and money has been invested. No one is interested I know but you can't keep defending this incompetence. 

[maxjak]

Just now, One Team said:

Agreed. He said on the radio after he’d only had a few weeks with the players on the grass. It’s been two months now, like many I thought it had started to click but today and Friday would say not, two of the most boring games of football seen in many a year. 

It might seem like an easy excuse...........but with a small squad....3 games in 6 days is inevitably going to lower performances?  As much as i love watching football, that amount of physical effort seriously lowers quality, and produces some dire matches?  Too many games, in too short a period, often  fails to give out a lot of entertainment?

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As you know Dave, I have expressed concern over Liams in game management and today was another example. I thought we set up quite badly  - if I look at the Brum game Anis went infield a lot which opened an avenue for Pring. We did the same today with Andi playing very much inside and therefore creating an avenue for Tanner - which isn’t his strength. Anis was wider and we ended up with a compressed centre - very much what a stronger and physical side like Millwall would want. The obvious change was in this case to ensure Andi went wider to stretch that side but it didn’t happen. The other tweak that should have happened was probably Cornick for Conway as TC was getting bullied. The subs when they came just seemed subs for the sake of subs and didn’t lead to any stylistic change.

It was poorly set up but then not remedied. Not a great mixture.

I don’t blame the starting set-up…it’s about us imposing our game on them, so that they make a change.  I was happy enough at h-t, they did nothing, we controlled but couldn’t create.  If the game carries on like that, we probably end up creating something.  Problem was it didn’t, and “we” had no answer.

At the start I was interested to see how we coped with with their 3421 / 541, how we’d split their 3 CBs in the press.

I failed to see any difference to our approach, we still went 442 w/o the ball in the main.  As you say, Weimann drifted in, Mehmeti stayed wide, so that was about it.  We didn’t see that reversed at any point in the first half, which might’ve been sensible.

They (Millwall) therefore blocked those pockets that Knight finds.

The players didn’t find any solutions, and nor did the manager.

Its at times like this I’d really like to hear from James Krause as to what the gameplan was, pre-game and during it.

1 minute ago, One Team said:

Agreed. He said on the radio after he’d only had a few weeks with the players on the grass. It’s been two months now, like many I thought it had started to click but today and Friday would say not, two of the most boring games of football seen in many a year. 

That comment disappointed me, it’s an excuse.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, maxjak said:

It might seem like an easy excuse...........but with a small squad....3 games in 6 days is inevitably going to lower performances?  As much as i love watching football, that amount of physical effort seriously lowers quality, and produces some dire matches?  Too many games, in too short a period, often  fails to give out a lot of entertainment?

Spot on and needs looking at. We all love football but nobody enjoys watching that today.

[Numero Uno]

26 minutes ago, redkev said:

It’s was only a joke uno , I do agree

You’re humour was to subtle for me. Done like a kipper

[maxjak]

5 minutes ago, 1team said:

 

Those who have been aghast at the NP situation are now justifiably feeling smug. There was no need for the change and now the new manager bounce has finished we have reverted back to what we are, an inconsistent mid table team. I am 60 years into supporting this club, 30 as a season ticket holder and 15 as a season ticket holder with my children so I feel its my team. I might not have billions but a significant amount of my time and money has been invested. No one is interested I know but you can't keep defending this incompetence. 

The only thing i would point out is..............NP had 32 months, and quite a few transfer windows, LM has had just under 2 months, and NO transfer   windows.  So a comparison at present is fatuous?  Make like a Jedi....and show a little patience?

[The turtle]

4 hours ago, real_bristol said:

A little flat but mostly in ******control******. seems like that is the way we play now as we suss out the opposition. Need to get Tommy involved somehow. Sykes on for Weimann please.

In the manning era, there is no word i hate more.

Any game where it's used as a positive.

A. It's an extremely dull game.

B. If it stays that way it doesn't end well.

[phantom]

2 hours ago, INCRED said:

You won’t see Benarous this season 

I have a horrible feeling we'll never see him in a City shirt again 

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

But that is a different matter. I was responding to you saying 'Why does everyone keep thinking we're likely to get top 6?'

You'd be hard pressed to find fans who think anything of the sort. Perhaps JL and BT have to believe it is true so they can convince themselves they have made the right decisions. We're not so easily persuaded.

I couldn't make the game today but watched on Robins TV. Joe Burnell was the guest summariser he even mentioned JL stating we're a top six side, you could tell by the way he said it he didn’t believe it either. 

On a side issue, does Joe Burnell work for the club as he was wearing a City jacket and tie. 

But also mentioned he's getting the train to WHU with friends to support the team 

2 hours ago, pj76 said:

I felt the referee didn't help. The fight at the end was the most exciting thing for the whole game, but it would never have happened if he'd taken action over the constant cynical fouls throughout.

Interesting, others have said the opposite that he helped by letting the game flow 

2 hours ago, westonred said:

Anyone else think the players were out on the p*ss last night celebrating NYE   That might explain the awful performance

Sadly didn't happen, at least it could have been a good reason to be so lacklustre 

[Jerseybean]

LM post match said ‘We need to be braver with the ball’ Think he meant ‘We need to be better with the ball’

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/we-need-to-be-braver-with-the-ball-manning/

[Mr Popodopolous]

30 minutes ago, maxjak said:

The only thing i would point out is..............NP had 32 months, and quite a few transfer windows, LM has had just under 2 months, and NO transfer   windows.  So a comparison at present is fatuous?  Make like a Jedi....and show a little patience?

For 3 if not 4 of those windows we were in true downsizing mode and trying to improve the side while creating some value in the squad!!

NP inherited a train wreck, not necessarily based on individual players but the collective morale, malaise, injuries etc. FFP rapidly closing in, it was disastrous.

LM has inherited a solid base albeit still too many injuries- an injury situation that has been on the decline and a great collective attitude in the squad.

[1team]

33 minutes ago, maxjak said:

The only thing i would point out is..............NP had 32 months, and quite a few transfer windows, LM has had just under 2 months, and NO transfer   windows.  So a comparison at present is fatuous?  Make like a Jedi....and show a little patience?

How long should I wait? Be careful as I will be back to haunt you.

[Davefevs]

@phantom think JB’s blazer might be a “former players” issue blazer.

[phantom]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

@phantom think JB’s blazer might be a “former players” issue blazer.

That would explain the awkward looking fit 

6 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

LM post match said ‘We need to be braver with the ball’ Think he meant ‘We need to be better with the ball’

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/we-need-to-be-braver-with-the-ball-manning/

I took it to mean players need to have more belief in what they can do 

Assume they do it in training 

[Davefevs]

Probably Big Dave Rodgers’s blazer!

[Lennieb]

Imo it didn't feel like a team looking to consolidate or get near that top 6 today which really disappointed me . If we wanted something badly and it was obvious in the 2nd it wasnt happening then surely you get the thinking caps on and Start looking at what you can Do to change things up ,go on th attack ,risk more ,but we didn't.  I wouldn't kill them over it ,been a fan since 1979 and those who can ,can prob remember far worse . And for me a note for Conway, don't get down mate your time will come .it was awful to watch the long hit today to him and expectations of him trying to come out with something , there was some height in that back line .

 

Edited January 1 by Lennieb

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Whats yours?

Thank you , mine’s a pint. 

Edited January 1 by Major Isewater

[MrRedRobin]

4 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

In terms of our performance and the result, that was poor, frustrating, and very disappointing.

For the second consecutive game, it was low on quality, and we never looked like scoring.

As per my half time reflections our lack of forward movement/ momentum and creativity has to be addressed.

If I’m looking for positives, there aren’t many. I thought Dickie had a very good game and Max did very well with his distribution on occasions.

Perhaps the best performance on the day was the referee, who I thought had an excellent game.

Remarkable how well we played at Watford and how poorly we played today and last time out against Birmingham. As has been said on many, many occasions consistency is key and we are horribly inconsistent.

So there goes our unbeaten run and the first chance of the season to do the double.

Sorry JB but completely disagree with you on this point thought the ref wasn't great today.

[pongo88]

The one bit of excitement 
 

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13040493/brawl-breaks-out-at-bristol-as-tensions-boil-over

 

[WECANDO]

6 hours ago, westonred said:

Manning obviously doesn't rate Yeboah he's not even on the bench today

Prefer Yeboah to Weiman. Former quicker, more aggressive and is exciting to watch. Should still come on as a sub as a minimum.

[Atyeo's lift]

I aw today Millwall doing what so many others do, but we never do; having a man, usually a midfielder, alone in space as an outlet. Is this due to our poor positioning both in marking and movement, or do other teams just practise this in training? Also other team's defenders when heading under pressure nearly always find a fellow player - our heading seems directionless and random. 

[maxjak]

14 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The one bit of excitement 
 

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13040493/brawl-breaks-out-at-bristol-as-tensions-boil-over

 

The only bit of passion shown in the entire match? It's obvious that Williams New year resolution was to try and make new friends?

[Kid in the Riot]

As a spectacle it was absolutely dreadful. Very boring and consequently the atmosphere in the ground (never good on new years day anyway) was shocking. You know it's bad when you jump out of your seat cus two seagulls are squawking above the Dolman, and you can hear the players shouting at each other. 

Far from one of the worst performances I've seen though. Seemed to be heading for a 0-0. But that last half an hour we were shocking, and Millwall really grew in confidence.

Maybe I'm being too generous but I thought prior to the subs we just looked absolutely knackered. Then, too many changes, and it was all a bit of a mess. 

It's like we'd put all our energy into the Watford game and had nothing left in the tank for the Brum game and today. 

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We didn't look well coached today

There were some very basic but baffling things I noticed today. 

We seemed to lose possession after more throw ins than we kept it.

A number of times we took free kicks 10 yards back from where we could have. In our own half.

Passes often went to the marked man rather than the free man.

Basic stuff. We just weren't at the races. 

[GrahamC]

43 minutes ago, MrRedRobin said:

Sorry JB but completely disagree with you on this point thought the ref wasn't great today.

Far better than the linesman who repeatedly allowed Murray Wallace to handoff his opponent, must have thought it was rugby.

How on earth did their 7 not get booked straight after their goal, had hold of Rob Dickie’s shirt for about 30 seconds.

Not why we lost but they absolutely knew they could get away with loads from today’s officials.

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, Jimbo76 said:

We have a mid table squad. Why does everyone keep thinking we're likely to get top 6?

 

I don't think we are Top 6 contenders, but a mid-table side at home should have done better against a not particularly spectacular Millwall. 

It wasn't as if we were playing some team of Galacticos. 

To lose is one thing. Can be lots of reasons for it. But to lose after playing so poorly suggests we may not even be a mid-table side. 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

But to lose after playing so poorly suggests we may not even be a mid-table side. 

Because not all our performances are of that level RR.  If they were we’d be in trouble.  But on a given day we show we can play too.  The “average” performance is mid-table…and that’s what we are.  Sometimes those good performances come one after the other, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they come at home, sometimes they come away.

The easiest way to improve is to get better players.  Sure, we can make some marginal gains through coaching.  You can also make marginal gains through management / motivation too.

I suspect LM will achieve similar to what Nige did, just in slightly different way.

[redkev]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

You’re humour was to subtle for me. Done like a kipper

There’s a few on here ( possibly you aswell ) that don’t appreciate some of my humour especially regarding trains , immigrants , left wing & right wing politics , woke matters and our policing , but I know we all have different views and I do respect that ( even if a few don’t respect mine )   I do like a good bit of banter mind , 

but also love ( most of the time my club ) today was just another day in the life of a Bristol city fan .

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, redkev said:

There’s a few on here ( possibly you aswell ) that don’t appreciate some of my humour especially regarding trains , immigrants , left wing & right wing politics , woke matters and our policing , but I know we all have different views and I do respect that ( even if a few don’t respect mine )   I do like a good bit of banter mind , 

but also love ( most of the time my club ) today was just another day in the life of a Bristol city fan .

No, I just thought you were being serious for some reason and gave a serious response!!

[nickolas]

2 hours ago, phantom said:

I have a horrible feeling we'll never see him in a City shirt again 

I couldn't make the game today but watched on Robins TV. Joe Burnell was the guest summariser he even mentioned JL stating we're a top six side, you could tell by the way he said it he didn’t believe it either. 

On a side issue, does Joe Burnell work for the club as he was wearing a City jacket and tie. 

But also mentioned he's getting the train to WHU with friends to support the team 

Interesting, others have said the opposite that he helped by letting the game flow 

Sadly didn't happen, at least it could have been a good reason to be so lacklustre 

Bloody hell. The absolute pass-backwards master Mr Burnell?! No wonder thats why we always go backwards if he was watching on.

[BrizzleRed]

37 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

There were some very basic but baffling things I noticed today. 

We seemed to lose possession after more throw ins than we kept it.

A number of times we took free kicks 10 yards back from where we could have. In our own half.

Passes often went to the marked man rather than the free man.

Basic stuff. We just weren't at the races.  

That free kick we had near the Lansdown touchline in the second half particularly stuck in my mind.  

After placing the ball a few yards back towards our own half and trying to take it quickly, the ref made us retake it.  With that, we then chucked the ball a few yards further back into our own half and then finally took the kick.  

It was almost like someone trying to steal a few yards with a throw in, except we were actually trying to go backwards!  Amazing how many of our free kicks were being knocked backwards or sideways too.  

[Jerseybean]

Player ratings: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-player-ratings-millwall-9007156

[TV Tom]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In your opinion!  Not just yours, admittedly.  Others have said the same.

We had 7 forwards for our 3 positions / roles:

Left to right:

Mehmeti / Bell - Conway / Wells - Sykes / Weimann / Cornick

Based on our recruitment, who should we have not bothered with? Don't say McCrorie.  And out of Roberts, Dickie, Knight and TGH (loan), what budget were you allocating?

And what about the retrofit story re budget taken up?

Its not Manning who’ll be pulling rabbits out of the hat btw.

The stupid thing is - there should’ve been budget to strengthen the squad after Alex was sold, regardless of what you, me or the gatepost think was the necessary position.  But maybe it is dawning on you that the club chose the “self-harm” route, because of the way they felt about Nige.  They have in effect wasted 26 games of the season as a result.

Thats my version of the reality of the situation.

Whats yours?

 

Out of those seven i would only class 20 year old Conway and 33 year old Wells as out and out centre forwards, both have been injured and/or out of form for much of the season, it's patently obvious then and now we need a CF and i would of put that need in front of all our other recruitments, just my opinion mind.

  

[RollsRoyce]

10 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Out of those seven i would only class 20 year old Conway and 33 year old Wells as out and out centre forwards, both have been injured and/or out of form for much of the season, it's patently obvious then and now we need a CF and i would of put that need in front of all our other recruitments, just my opinion mind.

  

What is your budget? Are you saying you would have only signed one player last summer? Coventry spent £8m on 2 forwards. I do not disagree with the need, but there are significant financial constraints. I think Nige would have agreed with you, it was obvious we needed to replace Antoine. But it is pretty much impossible with free transfers or a budget of , less say £2m (fee for Knight or McCrorie) . I am not saying there is no one out there for that money, but every Championship club is looking for a £2M forward. You are stating the obvious. 

It needed a chunk of the nest egg spent on a forward, but that money is not there. 

Edited January 2 by RollsRoyce

[Sir Geoff]

8 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

That free kick we had near the Lansdown touchline in the second half particularly stuck in my mind.  

After placing the ball a few yards back towards our own half and trying to take it quickly, the ref made us retake it.  With that, we then chucked the ball a few yards further back into our own half and then finally took the kick.  

It was almost like someone trying to steal a few yards with a throw in, except we were actually trying to go backwards!  Amazing how many of our free kicks were being knocked backwards or sideways too.  

We kept doing that with throw ins as well. 91 other clubs try and steal 10 yards up the touchline, we were taking throw in from 10 yards back from where the ball went out. Strange.

[TDarwall]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I suspect LM will achieve similar to what Nige did, just in slightly different way.

This is very much where I am. If you just looked at our results & not the playing formation, style etc, you'd be forgiven for not knowing we'd ever changed manager.

We're still capable of giving all but the very best teams a good game, but equally capable of an insipid performance.  We're still much more effective v teams that come on to us.

Any team that deploys the (cliche alert) low block against us & is disciplined & resolute, will have a good chance of stealing the points.  

We have a very honest squad but we very much lack someone with a bit of pizazz (maybe Mehmeti can be that one).  However if you think of the talent we've lost in Semenyo & Scott, with little in terms of replacement its really not a shock.

 

 

[Sir Geoff]

I've still got a stiff neck this morning from looking right,left,right,left,right etc as we passed the ball continually across the back line. What a turgid,woeful performance.

[redkev]

8 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

This is very much where I am. If you just looked at our results & not the playing formation, style etc, you'd be forgiven for not knowing we'd ever changed manager.

We're still capable of giving all but the very best teams a good game, but equally capable of an insipid performance.  We're still much more effective v teams that come on to us.

Any team that deploys the (cliche alert) low block against us & is disciplined & resolute, will have a good chance of stealing the points.  

We have a very honest squad but we very much lack someone with a bit of pizazz (maybe Mehmeti can be that one).  However if you think of the talent we've lost in Semenyo & Scott, with little in terms of replacement its really not a shock.

 

 

Exactly my thoughts , if I was a manager of a side coming to Ashton gate all I would say would be sit deep stay focused let Bristol city huff and puff for 60 mins if they havent scored by then become a little more expansive grow into the game and last 10 mins go for it as Bristol city I’ll become nervous and likely to concede , 

all the above is no reference to manning as the above has happened for about the last 3 managers 

[exAtyeoMax]

10 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

No, I just thought you were being serious for some reason and gave a serious response!!

I thought he was being serious too. It’s very difficult to interpret humour when it’s written down sometimes. I could understand the Sammy reference but not Chris Martin. There wasn’t anything funny about Chris Martin…

Edited January 2 by exAtyeoMax

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

We kept doing that with throw ins as well. 91 other clubs try and steal 10 yards up the touchline, we were taking throw in from 10 yards back from where the ball went out. Strange.

Crazy isn’t it.  They say winning a football match can be about the small percentages, yet we seem to be willingly giving away some of the advantages we’re given.

It baffles me why we keep doing this, though I suppose it’s no surprise, as our set pieces in general have been very poor for years.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Out of those seven i would only class 20 year old Conway and 33 year old Wells as out and out centre forwards, both have been injured and/or out of form for much of the season, it's patently obvious then and now we need a CF and i would of put that need in front of all our other recruitments, just my opinion mind.

  

Yeah, that’s what you said in the post I replied to….but I asked who were you not signing as a result.  With the budgets as they were (or as we were told they were), you can’t have your cake and eat it.  I have no issues with your opinion, as I said above, many agree with you and what you deem the priority.

So, who out of Dickie and Knight weren’t you signing to buy a “priority” striker?  You might not have been able to afford both of them to get a striker in.

1 hour ago, RollsRoyce said:

What is your budget? Are you saying you would have only signed one player last summer? Coventry spent £8m on 2 forwards. I do not disagree with the need, but there are significant financial constraints. I think Nige would have agreed with you, it was obvious we needed to replace Antoine. But it is pretty much impossible with free transfers or a budget of , less say £2m (fee for Knight or McCrorie) . I am not saying there is no one out there for that money, but every Championship club is looking for a £2M forward. You are stating the obvious. 

It needed a chunk of the nest egg spent on a forward, but that money is not there. 

this

[Jose]

1 hour ago, mason said:

Round and around we go, if we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to back their manager with some cash to do so.

That does not mean sign a couple "for the future" the need is NOW! this month or are we yet again to "go again" in the summer, sometime, never.

Put some money where your talk is Jon, action speaks louder than words........not going to happen is it, really?

 

If we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to **** off. 

[redkev]

5 minutes ago, Jose said:

If we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to **** off. 

I totally agree but & big butt be careful what you wish for also remember we still have 22m debt hanging around our neck 

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, redkev said:

I totally agree but & big butt be careful what you wish for also remember we still have 22m debt hanging around our neck 

Not the be careful what you wish for tosh, again. Like what... Reading, Portsmouth, Wigan, Cardiff, Birmingham......all of whom have been to the Premier League and some a cup final as well.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, redkev said:

I totally agree but & big butt be careful what you wish for also remember we still have 22m 200m debt hanging around our neck 

Fixed

[Shauntaylor85]

1 hour ago, mason said:

Round and around we go, if we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to back their manager with some cash to do so.

That does not mean sign a couple "for the future" the need is NOW! this month or are we yet again to "go again" in the summer, sometime, never.

Put some money where your talk is Jon, action speaks louder than words........not going to happen is it, really?

 

I was on the fence with Manning and was starting to feel more positive after watching Watford away, however I said to those around me, next two games are key. We had great results like Watford under Nige, performance reminded me of the win at Swansea which should have been a similar margin. What I wanted to see was a city that could then go on and scrape two good results v Blues and Millwall, how poor were we in both, one shot on target in 120 mins of football versus lower table sides, the same old BC coming back to haunt us. 

 

 

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

One thing that Millwall did that frustrates the hell out of me that we don't, is when defending a corner they left a player up. I know it seems to be the modern way of everyone back in the box and sure manager must have statics of it being better, but when we clear our lines the opposition just pick up cheap ball unopposed and recycle it, when Millwall left one up we were forced to leave two back and had to fight for the ball when cleared, perhaps someone can explain the logic behind everyone back.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

If we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to **** off. 

Personally, whoever is in charge, the most important thing for me is to be completely and utterly disconnected from all things Bristol Sport unless someone can point me in the obvious direction of how we make loads of dosh or benefit in other significant and meaningful ways for a Championship Football Club by being part of it...........to those who believe the Lansdown's get it right, are safe etc. etc. (and those who don't but like the Bristol Sport model) I am not seeing the significant advantage we have over the Millwall's and Preston North End's of this world by being part of it so where am I totally missing the point?

Saving £50K on ticketing costs in a shared organisation and a few hundred grand on ground sharing with a Rugby Club DOES NOT count as a significant advantage in my eyes..........in Championship Football currency that is a drop in the ocean that barely buys us a mediocre player at our level.

However, if you can point me in the right direction that's much appreciated and then I would also be grateful if you could answer me this - if the significant advantage of Bristol Sport you have identified is there for all to see and I'm just being stupid (wouldn't be the first time tbf) WHY ARE THE LANSDOWN'S AND THEIR SENIOR MANAGEMENT TEAM (MARSHALL AND TINNION) NOT MAKING THAT HUGE ADVANTAGE COUNT OVER THE PRESTON NORTH END'S AND MILLWALL'S OF THIS WORLD?

[redkev]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Not the be careful what you wish for tosh, again. Like what... Reading, Portsmouth, Wigan, Cardiff, Birmingham......all of whom have been to the Premier League and some a cup final as well.

Tosh  fact actually

by the way did you not read that I’m not a lansdown supporter either , a takeover will be 50/50 just because we get taken over does not mean automatic success 

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

One thing that Millwall did that frustrates the hell out of me that we don't, is when defending a corner they left a player up. I know it seems to be the modern way of everyone back in the box and sure manager must have statics of it being better, but when we clear our lines the opposition just pick up cheap ball unopposed and recycle it, when Millwall left one up we were forced to leave two back and had to fight for the ball when cleared, perhaps someone can explain the logic behind everyone back.

I'm in your camp on this one.....it's a straightforward way of ensuring you don't have possession after you've cleared the corner!!

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, redkev said:

Tosh  fact actually

by the way did you not read that I’m not a lansdown supporter either , a takeover will be 50/50 just because we get taken over does not mean automatic success 

Personally neither am I. In fact I abhor the Premier league. Give me a bit of entertainment, win,lose or draw and I will be pretty content. I enjoyed the process and journey we were on under NP. To date I am unconvinced that the change was either necessary or likely to exact the type of football we were promised. The Lansdowns have had their chance, now move over to allow a new owner with different ideas a chance.

[Red-Robbo]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Because not all our performances are of that level RR.  If they were we’d be in trouble.  But on a given day we show we can play too.  The “average” performance is mid-table…and that’s what we are.  Sometimes those good performances come one after the other, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they come at home, sometimes they come away.

The easiest way to improve is to get better players.  Sure, we can make some marginal gains through coaching.  You can also make marginal gains through management / motivation too.

I suspect LM will achieve similar to what Nige did, just in slightly different way.

I hope so Fevs.

I guess the point I was trying to make to the poster I replied to, was NYD we didn’t play like a mid-table side but like a team deserving no better than the bottom third. 

If we can leven that with some "top 6" performances like at Vicarage Rd and a few hard ground-out or lucky wins then we will be fine this season and in a position to push on from that.

I can't help but feel the loss of Sykes - and the fact he didn’t look right even before that - cost us creativity, plus TGH playing in the James' deep defence role lost us his attacking threat. He isn't that great as a defence-shielding midfielder.

Overall the side looked as flat as I felt after a non-thrilling NYE and those seeking to defend them on the grounds of tiredness, need to acknowledge that Millwall had played exactly the same schedule as us. 

More fitness work required, perhaps. I imagine LM wasn't as measured and dispassionate when he debriefs the team about that loss, as he was on the radio!

 

[maxjak]

16 hours ago, 1team said:

How long should I wait? Be careful as I will be back to haunt you.

Let's assess LM's progress by the end of March?   If he hasn't made a significant difference by then.....I will haunt myself..Ha!    Happy New Year.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Nothing wrong with the tactics yesterday.  Given that we knew Millwall would crowd the defence, it made sense to play a patient passing game in the for an hour, and then bring on Sykes, Bell and TGH as the defence tired.  What went wrong was a) the injury to Sykes and b) several of the players didn’t play very well.

It amazes me how rarely players get criticised for simply not delivering.  I thought some individuals were shocking yesterday.  They’re professionals: they should have done better.

[myol'man]

43 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 I imagine LM wasn't as measured and dispassionate when he debriefs the team about that loss, as he was on the radio!

 

I can't imagine Manning either smashing tea cups at half time, spinning a ball boy around or bouncing around the ground.

"follow the process and win or lose, don't show any emotion"

[Red-Robbo]

10 minutes ago, myol'man said:

I can't imagine Manning either smashing tea cups at half time, spinning a ball boy around or bouncing around the ground.

"follow the process and win or lose, don't show any emotion"

 

Don't think he'd smash tea cups - finances, Liam, finances. Cups cost money - but I would guess he made clear his displeasure. His face in those final few minutes told the story. 

[RollsRoyce]

After the Watford game, there were numerous contributors coming out and stating how well-coached we were, quite clearly suggesting that we were poorly coached before (not a view BTW shared amongst a number of opposing teams we have  played) . It was not even Tinnion saying it. 

So were we as well coached against Birmingham and Milwall, or were Birmingham and Milwall better coached than us? Because one shot on target in 2 games does not look like a well-coached side to me. That is back to the old days of Holden and LJ. We looked anything but a well-coached side in the second half against Milwall. We were out thought and the team and substitutions had no impact as the game was taken away from us. 

Or does Manning only coach well when we win? It has nothing to do with him when we are awful, when players are also clearly following instructions from the coach. 

Looks to me like Manning is learning on the job, which is normal, and he also seems adept at doing that which is positive. But some , including Tinnion and the owners are in for a shock if they think Manning is going to transform this squad into something it is not and that we were not well coached and managed before. We were, even with some minor changes to approach by Manning, the overall result differences will be marginal.  We are a Scott and Semenyo sized ability short of a full load. We have no magic or stand out players. We are in the mix with the other 10/12 Championship sides who are all much the same. Inconsistent, lacking in real quality. However, if you do not turn up, do not apply yourself to every game, with commitment and desire, in the Championship that gets you into a relegation battle in my view. We will not have that unless we get a lot of injuries as the core ethics are there. 

It will be interesting to see if we repeat the performance against Watford in a couple of weeks. That will be an interesting test, as it will be one of the games Manning will have this season with a home and away game against the same team. 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, RollsRoyce said:

After the Watford game, there were numerous contributors coming out and stating how well-coached we were, quite clearly suggesting that we were poorly coached before (not a view BTW shared amongst a number of opposing teams we have  played) . It was not even Tinnion saying it. 

Tbf that was a few antagonistic posters who never liked Pearson anyway. One particular poster was talking about how refreshing it was to have a "forward thinking young coach"......didn't come out with that at Birmingham or yesterday funnily enough. Most on here, regardless of what went on recently, are prepared to give Manning plenty of time to get things moving whilst, at the same time, having an opinion on what they are watching (as we do with ALL managers).

There is a small and frankly slightly odd minority who jump straight on ANY criticism of Manning's tactics, team selection, style of play or whatever and get ridiculously defensive (albeit, again, they were quieter yesterday) and then try and turn the conversation into a Pearson v Manning row and/or accuse posters of "revelling" in a poor performance or defeat.........let's face it everyone was absolutely buzzing after sitting through that yesterday just so they could go home, switch the laptop on and get one over "brandnewRed" on the forum. Manning will be criticised by people on here the same as Pearson was and similarly he earned plenty of well deserved plaudits from almost everyone after three wins on the bounce.......it's a football forum.

[Back of the Dolman]

8 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

One thing that Millwall did that frustrates the hell out of me that we don't, is when defending a corner they left a player up. I know it seems to be the modern way of everyone back in the box and sure manager must have statics of it being better, but when we clear our lines the opposition just pick up cheap ball unopposed and recycle it, when Millwall left one up we were forced to leave two back and had to fight for the ball when cleared, perhaps someone can explain the logic behind everyone back.

I’ve been saying this all season !

Maybe we’re just old fashioned 

[Redtucks]

11 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Not the be careful what you wish for tosh, again. Like what... Reading, Portsmouth, Wigan, Cardiff, Birmingham......all of whom have been to the Premier League and some a cup final as well.

......and most of which are now lower in the EFL than us!

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

After the Watford game, there were numerous contributors coming out and stating how well-coached we were, quite clearly suggesting that we were poorly coached before (not a view BTW shared amongst a number of opposing teams we have played) . It was not even Tinnion saying it. 

 

So were we as well coached against Birmingham and Milwall, or were Birmingham and Milwall better coached than us? Because one shot on target in 2 games does not look like a well-coached side to me. That is back to the old days of Holden and LJ. We looked anything but a well-coached side in the second half against Milwall. We were out thought and the team and substitutions had no impact as the game was taken away from us. 

 

Or does Manning only coach well when we win? It has nothing to do with him when we are awful, when players are also clearly following instructions from the coach. 

 

Looks to me like Manning is learning on the job, which is normal, and he also seems adept at doing that which is positive. But some , including Tinnion and the owners are in for a shock if they think Manning is going to transform this squad into something it is not and that we were not well coached and managed before. We were, even with some minor changes to approach by Manning, the overall result differences will be marginal. We are a Scott and Semenyo sized ability short of a full load. We have no magic or stand out players. We are in the mix with the other 10/12 Championship sides who are all much the same. Inconsistent, lacking in real quality. However, if you do not turn up, do not apply yourself to every game, with commitment and desire, in the Championship that gets you into a relegation battle in my view. We will not have that unless we get a lot of injuries as the core ethics are there. 

 

It will be interesting to see if we repeat the performance against Watford in a couple of weeks. That will be an interesting test, as it will be one of the games Manning will have this season with a home and away game against the same team. 

 

 

Those posters who said we are now "well coached" which indeed was a dig at Pearson and his team, are no where to be seen following two rather crap performances where we didn't look well coached. 

[Redtucks]

10 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

One thing that Millwall did that frustrates the hell out of me that we don't, is when defending a corner they left a player up. I know it seems to be the modern way of everyone back in the box and sure manager must have statics of it being better, but when we clear our lines the opposition just pick up cheap ball unopposed and recycle it, when Millwall left one up we were forced to leave two back and had to fight for the ball when cleared, perhaps someone can explain the logic behind everyone back.

 

10 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I'm in your camp on this one.....it's a straightforward way of ensuring you don't have possession after you've cleared the corner!!

I've said this for ages!

Leave a player up and the opposition will leave two players back to cover.

If everyone is back defending any clearance will come straight back.

Any explanation of the logic for everyone back defending in the box???

 

 

Edited January 2 by Redtucks

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

 

I've said this for ages!

Leave a player up and the opposition will leave two players back to cover.

If everyone is back defending any clearance will come straight back.

Any explanation of the logic for everyone back defending in the box???

 

 

FWIW there was evidence that last season City improved their defending of set-pieces by pulling everyone back, zone defending the 6 yard box…but it’s still a relatively small sample…and a bit inconclusive too.  But just a bit of info.

[Sir Geoff]

52 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

......and most of which are now lower in the EFL than us!

 

 

Exactly, so do we go for glory and end up in League one eventually or tread water in the Championship and end up in League one eventually. Its all relative but I would prefer to go on the journey without the Lansdowns steering the ship.. .was my point.

[maxjak]

6 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

After the Watford game, there were numerous contributors coming out and stating how well-coached we were, quite clearly suggesting that we were poorly coached before (not a view BTW shared amongst a number of opposing teams we have  played) . It was not even Tinnion saying it. 

So were we as well coached against Birmingham and Milwall, or were Birmingham and Milwall better coached than us? Because one shot on target in 2 games does not look like a well-coached side to me. That is back to the old days of Holden and LJ. We looked anything but a well-coached side in the second half against Milwall. We were out thought and the team and substitutions had no impact as the game was taken away from us. 

Or does Manning only coach well when we win? It has nothing to do with him when we are awful, when players are also clearly following instructions from the coach. 

Looks to me like Manning is learning on the job, which is normal, and he also seems adept at doing that which is positive. But some , including Tinnion and the owners are in for a shock if they think Manning is going to transform this squad into something it is not and that we were not well coached and managed before. We were, even with some minor changes to approach by Manning, the overall result differences will be marginal.  We are a Scott and Semenyo sized ability short of a full load. We have no magic or stand out players. We are in the mix with the other 10/12 Championship sides who are all much the same. Inconsistent, lacking in real quality. However, if you do not turn up, do not apply yourself to every game, with commitment and desire, in the Championship that gets you into a relegation battle in my view. We will not have that unless we get a lot of injuries as the core ethics are there. 

It will be interesting to see if we repeat the performance against Watford in a couple of weeks. That will be an interesting test, as it will be one of the games Manning will have this season with a home and away game against the same team. 

Having just got round to watching highlights of the Bournemouth v Fulham game over Xmas.....it reminded me of the enormous gap Scotty and Semenyo's departure has left.  They were both outstanding, and were/are.   both game changers in their own right ......we just no longer have that type of player in the side, and in games like today's bore fest against Millwall, theyr'e is just no one capable of producing anything different when it is needed?  We are desperate for some guile and pace in midfield, and the travesty of bringing in Cornick, after someone like Semenyo has left, is a sad joke?   I do think the amount of games over Xmas are too many, and it lowers the quality, with players on both sides knackered...Ha!!  Not that is an excuse for that dire performance.  Let's just hope that LM manages to bring in the extra quality during the window, but i am not holding my breath.  And, like you, I think the Watford game will be an interesting test of Manning's tactical nous?     Watching B'mouth, made me realise just how much, along with everybody else, that   our side really miss Scott and Semenyo's abilities, .....         and it might well be a long time coming till we see that level of class in our team again  ?

Edited January 3 by maxjak

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, maxjak said:

the travesty of bringing in Cornick, after someone like Semenyo has left, is a sad joke?

He was signed to replace Martin, not Semenyo.

However, on Semenyo’s sale, Nige said “you can’t replace a £10m striker, there’s a reason why he cost £10m”

[2015]

19 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Nothing wrong with the tactics yesterday.  Given that we knew Millwall would crowd the defence, it made sense to play a patient passing game in the for an hour, and then bring on Sykes, Bell and TGH as the defence tired.  What went wrong was a) the injury to Sykes and b) several of the players didn’t play very well.

It amazes me how rarely players get criticised for simply not delivering.  I thought some individuals were shocking yesterday.  They’re professionals: they should have done better.

My only thing with that is Weimann shouldn't be playing on the wing or as a Number 10 if we are going up against a side who will sit back and not give us space. He's only useful when there is space to run into.

[exAtyeoMax]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He was signed to replace Martin, not Semenyo.

However, on Semenyo’s sale, Nige said “you can’t replace a £10m striker, there’s a reason why he cost £10m”

Surely it’s a reference to the timing not the exact transaction? 

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Surely it’s a reference to the timing not the exact transaction? 

Maybe.

@maxjak is right though….Senenyo and Scott are quality players, who are hugely missed.  In some ways we sacrificed some points / position last season by selling Semenyo in January, we could’ve finished top half with just one reversed result.  It’s, buts and maybes, accepted.

As for this season, whether we expected to keep Alex or not, he’s still a huge loss.  Alex and Antoine were “difference makers”.

This window will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Superjack]

On 02/01/2024 at 09:31, redkev said:

I totally agree but & big butt be careful what you wish for also remember we still have 22m debt hanging around our neck 

No.

Ffs no.

[BigTone]

On 02/01/2024 at 10:31, redkev said:

 & big butt 

says a lot for our fitness team if we have one of these !!