Guardiola Ball is NOT the Way

[UncleRed]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Nobody is crying. People paid good money to watch today and a forum is all about expressing opinion isn’t it……..childish is banging on about agendas that just aren’t there. An agenda would be pinning the blame on Manning and saying Nige would have won that game or in a few cases suggesting it would have been even worse under Nige. It’s not happening……..or at least it’s only happening in your head.

People like to come on here and discuss what they’ve seen, and we all see it slightly differently, if differing opinion is not for you perhaps you’re in the wrong place?

It’s not happening?

You just saying that proves my point

[Numero Uno]

Just now, UncleRed said:

It’s not happening?

You just saying that proves my point

Really? How is that working then? You sound a bit paranoid and looking for an agenda tbh. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, UncleRed said:

if only football was that easy aye.

in a contextualised comparison, yes it is…very simple.  Our hierarchy seem to think so too.

Like the fans who shout forward and moan whenever a pass goes sideways. If only people understand that the answer to winning at football consisted of just passing forwards every single time. Clowns.

It’s nothing like that at all, so I’ve struck it through. Completely irrelevant point to the ones @Fuber and myself are making.  Please don’t change the context / point of the comments made.

Football has many variables game by game, not one fan has all the information at his disposal. So instead of questioning things you and we know nothing about, I say we just get on with “supporting” the club we all supposedly support.

eff me, you’re just like the poster @cotswoldred2 who keeps using the “support the club” line everytime someone says anything he doesn’t like or agree with

What don’t I know anything about btw?  The squad facts / injuries / availability are not being kept from us.  There is no inside track to what me and Fuber posted.

Am I not supporting the club, please explain how I can be a super fan like you?

[UncleRed]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Really? How is that working then? You sound a bit paranoid and looking for an agenda tbh. 

How is that working? You saying people haven’t been comparing managers and saying “if he was in charge”. Yet the past few weeks there’s been numerous comments about this exact thing not just on OTIB either. Didn’t realise it was that hard to understand.

I for one don’t care who’s in charge at this moment because with this crop of players I don’t think the club can get much further. But I’m not an idiot and can admit the footballs been more entertaining to watch the last few weeks. And at least we have a style of playing now, even if it is the death of a live sport that is the most popular sport worldwide…easily.

[BS3_RED]

Left back passes to centre half, centre half squares it across to the other centr half, that centre half passes it across to the right back. Right back has a quick look up, decides there is no ball on and then passes back to the centre half who inturn passes it on the the other centre half who then passes it back the the left back.

 

Occasionally we will get a moment of excitement when the ball will be played back to Max and we are left wondering if it will be played back the one of the defence OR punted up field.

 

Does that sum it up?

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

How is that working? You saying people haven’t been comparing managers and saying “if he was in charge”. Yet the past few weeks there’s been numerous comments about this exact thing not just on OTIB either. Didn’t realise it was that hard to understand.

I for one don’t care who’s in charge at this moment because with this crop of players I don’t think the club can get much further. But I’m not an idiot and can admit the footballs been more entertaining to watch the last few weeks. And at least we have a style of playing now, even if it is the death of a live sport that is the most popular sport worldwide…easily.

There has been pointless comparison but none of that relates to TODAY. People are discussing (it’s a forum) a very poor performance and I’m not seeing anyone say the Manager isn’t up to it.

People questioning the tactics, the style and the set up is normal for this type of forum. I am not reading agenda led posts except the tiny minority of posters that have a real agenda EITHER way. In the same way we (probably overly) praise a win a defeat is dissected (again overly negative, it’s normal on here).

Some people are so defensive of the perception of Liam Manning that it’s becoming a bit weird. Today was shite but nobody wants him to lose his job bar two or three posters on the whole forum TOPS who are still not moving on from Nige.

[Red_Alligator]

2 minutes ago, BS3_RED said:

Left back passes to centre half, centre half squares it across to the other centr half, that centre half passes it across to the right back. Right back has a quick look up, decides there is no ball on and then passes back to the centre half who inturn passes it on the the other centre half who then passes it back the the left back.

 

Occasionally we will get a moment of excitement when the ball will be played back to Max and we are left wondering if it will be played back the one of the defence OR punted up field.

 

Does that sum it up?

It's not that good!!

Happy clappers..........

[UncleRed]

 

So football is easy? Yet you and many people seem to think that, but what’s your day jobs? If it’s that easy you must work for professional football teams.

I didn’t change the context. You two made a point about a pointless stat, I said sarcastically about the sport being that easy to understand.

You think the club shares every detail with its fanbase? Wow Dave your ego is even bigger than I thought

oh oh oh, remember when everyone thought Matty James was out for 6 weeks (including yourself), played 90 minutes the next game

I never once said you wasn’t supporting the club, and I’m no superfan, in fact I’m far from it.

But yeah Dave carry on being condescending it looks real good on you. 

[Natchfever]

29 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Or you just acknowledge it wasn’t the best and get on with it instead of crying about it like children.

Why resort to juvenile insults.?

Shut the forum down perhaps unless everyone agrees?

Or perhaps stfu and acknowledge that a lot of people saw the same thing and elect to use this forum as a means of expressing their frustration.

[plumb]

29 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

I’ve experienced Ashton gate multiple times when the atmosphere was worse than that today, and about the death of football people keep banging on about, that’s their opinion and not factual. I for one don’t find it boring watching the team I support live, playing that style. And I’m sure I’m not the only one.

 

I agree today was “shite”. But name me a team that has never played “shite”. And yes I did attend today, supporting the team no matter the circumstances.

Which games would you say were a worse atmosphere than today out of interest? Today it was pretty much silent for 90 minutes, I can't see how it could be any worse.

I agree to an extent with the initial post.  I have seen many games over the years where we have been bad, very bad, technically players much worse than our current squad, but in terms of entertainment, today was one of the worst.  There was just nothing, we barely got near their goal.  We didn't even have a go.

What I don't understand is why when there was an option to break away, outnumber them, we would delay, or turn back, they would get behind the ball and we would be back to square one again, side to side again where the chances of getting forward and scoring were next to nothing.

[UncleRed]

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

There has been pointless comparison but none of that relates to TODAY. People are discussing (it’s a forum) a very poor performance and I’m not seeing anyone say the Manager isn’t up to it.

People questioning the tactics, the style and the set up is normal for this type of forum. I am not reading agenda led posts except the tiny minority of posters that have a real agenda EITHER way. In the same way we (probably overly) praise a win a defeat is dissected (again overly negative, it’s normal on here).

Some people are so defensive of the perception of Liam Manning that it’s becoming a bit weird. Today was shite but nobody wants him to lose his job bar two or three posters on the whole forum TOPS who are still not moving on from Nige.

I agree, except it’s a lot more than two or three. And some have mentioned it relating to TODAY.

[pongo88]

49 minutes ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

And you have completely missed the point...

I've sat through plenty of dross throughout the decades BUT, that provoked an appropriate response

Today provoked nothing, I have never experienced Ashton Gate in total silence. It was truly soporific. The only level of excitement was when we won a corner late on which was embarrassing but, it was all we had to shout about 

My point is about the football, not City specifically today. This style of play will be the death of football from a live spectator perspective 

I agree with most of what you said except for the big I’ve highlighted. The only real bit of excitement was when Williams had a punch up with a Millwall player in front of Area 51. Both could easily have received a red card 

[UncleRed]

2 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Why resort to juvenile insults.?

Shut the forum down perhaps unless everyone agrees?

Or perhaps stfu and acknowledge that a lot of people saw the same thing and elect to use this forum as a means of expressing their frustration.

Who said anything about having to agree.

And god forbid someone insults another on here, that’s not normal is it

There’s frustration, then there’s over the top moaning to the point I can actually hear the crying coming out of my phone.

The older generation like to moan I know but Jesus, act your age sometimes.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

5 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

But yeah Dave carry on being condescending it looks real good on you. 

The irony. 

[UncleRed]

Just now, The Swan and Cemetery said:

The irony. 

The truth hurts sometimes, it’s ok.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

12 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I agree with most of what you said except for the big I’ve highlighted. The only real bit of excitement was when Williams had a punch up with a Millwall player in front of Area 51. Both could easily have received a red card 

I missed that, I'd stuck pins in my eyes by then....

Edited January 1 by Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..

[Natchfever]

4 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Who said anything about having to agree.

And god forbid someone insults another on here, that’s not normal is it

There’s frustration, then there’s over the top moaning to the point I can actually hear the crying coming out of my phone.

The older generation like to moan I know but Jesus, act your age sometimes.

Ageist ***** slert.

Ok to dig someone out because of their vintage.

Belter.

[UncleRed]

Just now, Natchfever said:

Ageist ***** slert.

Ok to dig someone out because of their vintage.

Belter.

Works both ways.

Seen plenty of posts taking digs about someone’s point of view because they’re too young in their opinion.

Truth hurts 

[Kingswood Robin]

I've lost track of what's happening here. Maybe it's my age.

What is this truth that hurts so much? Why was someone telling Jesus to grow up?

[Simon bristol]

9 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I agree with most of what you said except for the big I’ve highlighted. The only real bit of excitement was when Williams had a punch up with a Millwall player in front of Area 51. Both could easily have received a red card 

Agreed, what was happening wasnt working, some alternative plan of how to play just didnt happen,,,maybe 2 strikers through the middle.. maybe encouraging full backs to push on,, and be more positive causing millwall to have to worry about defending against us, but there was only being passive, and then bang, they score,, to the surprise of no one who was watching.

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

 

 

So football is easy? Yet you and many people seem to think that, but what’s your day jobs? If it’s that easy you must work for professional football teams.

I didn’t change the context. You two made a point about a pointless stat, I said sarcastically about the sport being that easy to understand.

You think the club shares every detail with its fanbase? Wow Dave your ego is even bigger than I thought

oh oh oh, remember when everyone thought Matty James was out for 6 weeks (including yourself), played 90 minutes the next game

I never once said you wasn’t supporting the club, and I’m no superfan, in fact I’m far from it.

But yeah Dave carry on being condescending it looks real good on you. 

Oh, Uncle, Uncle, Uncle….read what I actually put.

 

[Alan Dicks]

Modern day football is absolutely dire, it’s slow uninspiring and boring.

I don’t bother watching it these days, and that includes City unfortunately.

[KingHillRed]

Listen to the gaffer after the game - team/players still very much in a learning phase and the reality is that the players we have probably aren't good enough for what he wants to do - hopefully January will change some of that - there will be ups and downs before it all clicks I expect

That said couple of shockers today:

- Weimann out wide which has, and will, never work

- Matty James starting with Williams, only one of those two starts for me

- Tommy playing up top on his own, basically getting little boy'd by two giants, us not really getting near him or trying to provide any service to him

I thought both teams played in a very, very similar way today, both press high, both play out from the back and both had some tidy footballers - they were just marginally better than us at it

Edited January 1 by KingHillRed

[pongo88]

Just now, Simon bristol said:

Agreed, what was happening wasnt working, some alternative plan of how to play just didnt happen,,,maybe 2 strikers through the middle.. maybe encouraging full backs to push on,, and be more positive causing millwall to have to worry about defending against us, but there was only being passive, and then bang, they score,, to the surprise of no one who was watching.

That’s a key point. The subs didn’t change the game plan. It was the same formation and tactics with just different players. If the starting plan was obviously not working for over an hour, why stick with it?  The only slight change was when Cornick came on. This was  only because Sykes was injured, and there was no other option, so he ran around a bit 

[The turtle]

26 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

 

 

So football is easy? Yet you and many people seem to think that, but what’s your day jobs? If it’s that easy you must work for professional football teams.

I didn’t change the context. You two made a point about a pointless stat, I said sarcastically about the sport being that easy to understand.

You think the club shares every detail with its fanbase? Wow Dave your ego is even bigger than I thought

oh oh oh, remember when everyone thought Matty James was out for 6 weeks (including yourself), played 90 minutes the next game

I never once said you wasn’t supporting the club, and I’m no superfan, in fact I’m far from it.

But yeah Dave carry on being condescending it looks real good on you. 

Dear all,

Just decided between sweet or salted Popcorn to watch where this goes.

Finally some entertainment today

This could definitely be a front foot forum event.

[UncleRed]

3 minutes ago, The turtle said:

Dear all,

Just decided between sweet or salted Popcorn to watch where this goes.

Finally some entertainment today

This could definitely be a front foot forum event.

Not gonna happen unfortunately.

Think Daves reply was a result of him having nothing of worth to reply with.

[AppyDAZE]

15 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

Modern day football is absolutely dire, it’s slow uninspiring and boring.

I don’t bother watching it these days, and that includes City unfortunately.

Unfortunately, I think there's something to be said for this, and today you had it for a good hour of the match where neither side seemed to be interested in taking a gamble to score.

They got better and fully deserved their win, but sadly these types of games are becoming more and more normal nowadays.

Utterly miserable experience being at this one today.

And got f ing soaked on the way home.

Happy New Year!

Edited January 1 by AppyDAZE

[NcnsBcfc]

35 minutes ago, BS3_RED said:

Left back passes to centre half, centre half squares it across to the other centr half, that centre half passes it across to the right back. Right back has a quick look up, decides there is no ball on and then passes back to the centre half who inturn passes it on the the other centre half who then passes it back the the left back.

 

Occasionally we will get a moment of excitement when the ball will be played back to Max and we are left wondering if it will be played back the one of the defence OR punted up field.

 

Does that sum it up?

What we were missing today (and in a way the Birmingham game) was an energy, desire and drive to take the game to the opposing team.

When we play teams that sit back and apply the low block we have struggled for a long time now. The teams that come at us, that affords us the space and opportunities. Without that, the onus is on us to generate those "opportunities". Manning referred to it as being "brave", but a number of players today were playing it easy with regards to taking a chance on the ball.

Take Tanner for instance. Millwall obviously saw that Weimann was playing rather than Sykes. They knew that Weimann doesn't have the legs to go outside his man and would come central. They condensed our left side, stopped Mehmeti and Pring and forced us to go right.

Tanner was taking up positions 10-15 yards clear (particularly in the 1st half) and would then retreat those 10-15 yards (unnecessarily at times) to take a pass from Zak. Wallace would follow his retreat from LWB and thus Tanner's first touch would be over protective followed by a pass back to Zak 90% of the time. So frustrating, negative and got the crowd sighing at times.

And as for Conway. 2nd half, bad pass from Millwall and with space to attack the CB from 35 yards and at the very least get a shot off. He neither attacks the CB with intent or gets the aforementioned shot off, taking the easy option to lay it off to Sykes and a wasted opportunity.  What would Semenyo have done there, or a striker that drives with a purpose.

All boils down to our intent on the ball. 30 goals in 26 games tells it's own story.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Not gonna happen unfortunately.

Think Daves reply was a result of him having nothing of worth to reply with.

No, it’s your MO to change the focus of the discussion with something irrelevant to try to poo-Pooh someone’s opinion as being the same as something non-sensical.

The point stands, with a fitter squad we were doing ok under Nige.  Manning has continued that.  Both managers are pretty reliant on the players at their disposal.

Thats quite simple to understand.  It’s quite a simple concept.  Is it not?  It doesn’t require any super football brain or to be in the pro game to recognise that.  It doesn’t require ITK status, or the inside line.

We are ticking along fine under Manning, today’s result and performance was as disappointing as Hull was the opposite.

Not sure what point you’re really trying to make.

[BS3_RED]

Im old school ( when did that happen) and as I said to a similar aged bloke next to me at Birmingham, I would rather lose trying to win than draw playing not to lose. I really think its a generational thing.

[The turtle]

11 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Not gonna happen unfortunately.

Think Daves reply was a result of him having nothing of worth to reply with.

I've been in bed for 3 days. hopefully it ends soon. I needed a laugh, even if only i found it funny.

Tbh, @Davefevsis normally a top poster, as are you @UncleRed. This here, however, is just what happens when you really really care about your football team.

 

 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

There are teams that don't play possession based and do well. Villa,

Villa frequently will play a short passing possession game. They approached nearly 700 passes v Sheffield Utd. 

[Guest]

I have a confession to make, is there a priest on the forum?
 

I listened to Ian calling in to Radio Bristol and for the first time ever I agreed with pretty much everything he said.

It was an absolutely dreadful performance and the coach has much to do if all the remaining home games don’t go the same way, there is a pattern emerging regardless of the result at home, boring football brought about by the complete lack of risk taking by our players to create goal scoring opportunities.

That has to be on the coach and his team.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I have a confession to make, is there a priest on the forum?
 

I listened to Ian calling in to Radio Bristol and for the first time ever I agreed with pretty much everything he said.

It was an absolutely dreadful performance and the coach has much to do if all the remaining home games don’t go the same way, there is a pattern emerging regardless of the result at home, boring football brought about by the complete lack of risk taking by our players to create goal scoring opportunities.

That has to be on the coach and his team.

You mean the bit where he said LM was wrong to pick x, pick y, pick z, but then said he accepted that LM needed to rotate and LM should’ve played Andy King or Jed Meerholz instead.  Was pure Patridge for me tonight.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

11 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I have a confession to make, is there a priest on the forum?
 

I listened to Ian calling in to Radio Bristol and for the first time ever I agreed with pretty much everything he said.

It was an absolutely dreadful performance and the coach has much to do if all the remaining home games don’t go the same way, there is a pattern emerging regardless of the result at home, boring football brought about by the complete lack of risk taking by our players to create goal scoring opportunities.

That has to be on the coach and his team.

100% agree. The football was verging on the final LJ days in terms of not wanting to play forwards

All managers should have time to implement their ideas but I'm concerned that JL has committed to the Playstation football ethos. Anything but that please

Edited January 1 by Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You mean the bit where he said LM was wrong to pick x, pick y, pick z, but then said he accepted that LM needed to rotate and LM should’ve played Andy King or Jed Meerholz instead.  Was pure Patridge for me tonight.

He managed to get a number of his stock nonsense phrases in

’ Three 6’5 centre halves ‘

’Midgets’ (FFS)

’Head on a stick’

 

He was in his standard arrogant , lecturing , I know better mode

 

[Swede]

There's no pace to the version we play unlike the one Manning likes to play in his head. It's boring going nowhere football. I remember Swansea being famous for it and what a boring unattractive spectacle it was. We simply haven't the players to play that way.

At least the previous manager had the experience and adapted a strategy and played with what he had at his disposal. The difference is that our current head coach has a strategy but not the players to play it. 

Here's the riddle, we have strikers at the club but our head coach can't find a suitable formation to accommodate ANY of them. That's not coaching, that's worrying.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

7 minutes ago, Swede said:

There's no pace to the version we play unlike the one Manning likes to play in his head. It's boring going nowhere football. I remember Swansea being famous for it and what a boring unattractive spectacle it was. We simply haven't the players to play that way.

At least the previous manager had the experience and adapted a strategy and played with what he had at his disposal. The difference is that our current head coach has a strategy but not the players to play it. 

Here's the riddle, we have strikers at the club but our head coach can't find a suitable formation to accommodate ANY of them. That's not coaching, that's worrying.

Agreed, Tommy is a forceful player when he is on his game but he looks lost and a shadow of himself at the moment playing up front on his own.(although part of me wonders about not playing too well in the transfer window)

We just bounced off them today

Edited January 1 by Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..

[sh1t_ref_again]

3 hours ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

That you have probably only experienced the kind of football where it is compulsory to pass the ball 300 times before you cross the halfway line I e. not football from the 70's to the turn if the century 

I could be totally wrong, but if I am, you have bought what will be the slow death of what makes people watch football, i.e. passion and excitement, hook line and sinker

So you do not visit for months to comment after some good wins, but regurgitate something you posted in August when NP was in charge 

Edited January 1 by sh1t_ref_again
double posted

[Burt_]

3 hours ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

Today was dire, absolutely dire and a prime example of how this modern trend of Play Station football will be the death of the game we love.

It is well known that The Etihad is a library and that is because nothing exciting happens there anymore 

Clubs that try and emulate this beware. Today, 21,000 people were bored rigid watching players endlessly recycling the ball in an attempt to emulate this turgid shite

It was probably the worst atmosphere I think I have ever experienced in 50 years of watching football at The Gate, there was literally nothing to get excited about 

At least the "dinosaur" football that I used to watch was exciting. Wingers taking on their full backs, through balls, crosses, shots, stuff that used to get you out of your seat, ALL GONE thanks to this modern brand of football which is dull as dishwater 

We've been sold the Emperor's new clothes, there is no substance to it, PlayStation is NOT REAL. When are people going to open their eyes to this game killer....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more!!

Just turgid, repetitive sideways or backwards passes along the defensive line until we make a mistake and give it away.

Still, we must've played well and dominated - cos the stats say we had loads more possession than them!!!!!!!!

[Bs4Red]

I think it all boils down to what we want to see, I’m very much a fan of Manning and was very much not a fan of Pearson. But overall I’m a massive fan of Bristol city. 
 

I know what I like to watch and that wasn’t what I seen under Pearson and for me, his football was poor and we were poor. I think people forget that because of all the good stuff he done off the pitch. 
 

Rotherham away springs to mind, one of the worst performances I’ve seen in a long time and bar 15 minutes of absolute magic from Tommy the chat would have been similar to today. 
 

I personally like what Manning is trying to do and when it’s right, it’s brilliant to watch. 
 

Today was awful and no matter who you are, you have to admit that. 
 

There were numerous bad performances under NP too. We just have to keep ploughing on and have faith that LM can get it all clicking (like Watford) for a sustained period of time. 

[Fpcity]

1 hour ago, KingHillRed said:

Listen to the gaffer after the game - team/players still very much in a learning phase and the reality is that the players we have probably aren't good enough for what he wants to do - hopefully January will change some of that - there will be ups and downs before it all clicks I expect

That said couple of shockers today:

- Weimann out wide which has, and will, never work

- Matty James starting with Williams, only one of those two starts for me

- Tommy playing up top on his own, basically getting little boy'd by two giants, us not really getting near him or trying to provide any service to him

I thought both teams played in a very, very similar way today, both press high, both play out from the back and both had some tidy footballers - they were just marginally better than us at it

But how many windows will it take to get a team that's capable of playing his way, especially as we don't splash the cash as we did in the LJ days.

I don't see anymore of our players going for big fees like the last 5 years so makes it harder unless it's frees or loans. 

[reddoc]

1 hour ago, UncleRed said:

But I’m not an idiot

Contentious. Possibly deserves it's own thread?

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Fpcity said:

But how many windows will it take to get a team that's capable of playing his way, especially as we don't splash the cash as we did in the LJ days.

I don't see anymore of our players going for big fees like the last 5 years so makes it harder unless it's frees or loans. 

There are absolutely good frees and loans out there albeit it doesn't sound inspiring, believe should we be building on this base tbh.

[Dredd]

2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Liverpool don't win much compared with Man City

Pretty sure under Klopp they've won the Prem, CL, FA Cup, League cup, club World Cup and the super cup. Not bad going really is it. 

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

6 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

So you do not visit for months and comment after so e good wind, but regurgitate something you posted when NP was in charge

Not sure what your point is. As you've dug out my old post, you will have also noted that I have been on this forum for 13 years and don't post every 5 minutes...

I post when I see things that concern me and today was one of those days. The type of football we are trying to play is killing the atmosphere in stadia

That is A MASSIVE CONCERN...

 

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

4 minutes ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

Not sure what your point is. As you've dug out my old post, you will have also noted that I have been on this forum for 13 years and don't post every 5 minutes...

I post when I see things that concern me and today was one of those days. The type of football we are trying to play is killing the atmosphere in stadia

That is A MASSIVE CONCERN...

 

 

My point was simple, you have not posted since August, but then post exactly the same as you posted then when Nige was in charge

[Fpcity]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There are absolutely good frees and loans out there albeit it doesn't sound inspiring, believe should we be building on this base tbh.

Yeah frees will be ok if we can get the good ones in early. 

Loans I guess we've not been used to having them over the last few years. Maybe Manning has some good connections or can rely on his reputation to get some decent ones 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Fpcity said:

Yeah frees will be ok if we can get the good ones in early. 

Loans I guess we've not been used to having them over the last few years. Maybe Manning has some good connections or can rely on his reputation to get some decent ones 

Well I am looking around and there are some I would have on a longish list..

Bird and Willock in midfield to name 2, maybe McIntyre from Reading as a 4th CB..Iorfa might be out of contract, but Transfermarkt not always reliable.

Hladky Ipswich is. Dunno whether they have an option.

Manning used to work at CFG..a resource to be tapped, we as a club are and have been fairly useless at at tapping contacts. 

I don't like it but nepotism and contacts are a key part of the game now. Been around for a while but it is not good.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

19 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

My point was simple, you have not posted since August, but then post exactly the same as you posted then when Nige was in charge

My concern is the style if football we are playing and particularly the impact it has on our crowd. Bore everyone stupid and they'll think twice about coming back 

[JoeAman08]

7 minutes ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

My concern is the style if football we are playing and particularly the impact it has on our crowd. Bore everyone stupid and they'll think twice about coming back 

The problem with this is it completely disregards Millwall. Pretty much 541 and happy to draw 0-0 and have some set pieces with their giants all over the pitch.  
 

Also disregards a ref that let them be physical and go through the back of our players and get away with a number of pushes in the back. No problem with a ref interpreting the game that way.

 

We are not a physical side and you can argue we could use a few more bigger lads. However, we don’t have them and especially up front. We also lack pace in general. To put this all on a style of play is ridiculous. This would look a lot better with Southampton’s or Leeds players. Truth is we just don’t have anyone exceptional up front. Hopefully this is addressed in January. One player of a higher level will make it easier for what we have in the squad already. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

28 minutes ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

My concern is the style if football we are playing and particularly the impact it has on our crowd. Bore everyone stupid and they'll think twice about coming back 

Or a bit of patience and accept we will not get it right every time, not sure you would have got much support after our last win, but a loss and the end of the world is nigh

[McNasty Filth]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

So you do not visit for months to comment after some good wins, but regurgitate something you posted in August when NP was in charge 

Love this post. In a nutshell it typifies the point that no matter how hard we try and rail against it, the fact is deep down we all have an agenda and it's so difficult to take a step back and reconsider what it is 'we are actually trying to say'.

I kind of agree with the og poster in many ways, but on the flip side, its a way to simplistic argument to take seriously tbh! Broad brush strokes come to mind.

Considering Manning claims to be such an anorak when it comes to research and delving into detail, he really should be looking at videos of how the team played when Conway and Wells were linking up across the front line, whether that was in the front three or two. Imo we played some of our best flowing and most threatening football. To keep playing Conway upfront on his own as a lone striker to me is complete madness and shows a real lack of experience on Mannings part....... but hey, that's my agenda :laugh:!!!!

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Villa frequently will play a short passing possession game. They approached nearly 700 passes v Sheffield Utd. 

That's not exactly outside the norm for any team playing Seffiled United this season - but again also Villa have higher quality players and could break them down.

 Villa average midtable in every metric for touches. https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/possession/Premier-League-Stats - SHU bottom for possession with an average of 36%.

Possession is only slightly above division average. Explained by an equally slightly above average number of successful (%) take-ons.

As a comparison - West Ham in 6th average 41%.

When Villa are playing for a goal however - they tend to wing-play.  6th most crosses in the League. Added to which themselves and Wsst Ham are 4th and 2nd in the league for goals direct from counters.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting possession isn't useful, it is, especially at killing off games or tiring the opposition - but it depends on personnel and how its being used.

As an example- see if you can guess which two teams in the PLs match the image is from.

[Charlie BCFC]

5 hours ago, Fuber said:

You criticised SB for calling a dire performance dire and insinuated he was still drunk from NY - and said by return it was 'not great'.

It was a woeful performance up there with the S'OD era, was my point. To call his critique of today 'one of the weirdest posts on this forum' is some way off the mark.

Today was up there with the Barnsley game at AG back when Simpson and Downing took caretaker charge against Barnsley. For context in case people can't remember that far back - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12220056/bristol-city-0-1-barnsley-carlton-morris-fires-tykes-to-victory.

I criticised the poster because he went on absolute ramble around Guardiola had ruined football and was a fraud which of course is absolute rubbish. I said the performance wasn’t great, that’s not defending the performance. Anyone who went today would know that it was probably the worst performance of the Manning era 

[Charlie BCFC]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

So what if ifs a NP side. His brief was to come in here and improve THIS squad of players. 

Now we suddenly need new players go make us better? Bs. 

Today was just as bad as the QPR game. You'd think they'd have learned something after 11 games? 

 

We have, hence why we won 3 wins on the bounce which Pearson has never done. 
 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Charlie BCFC said:

We have, hence why we won 3 wins on the bounce which Pearson has never done. 
 

 

And what about all the shite inbetween? 

Bit of context required here. 

V Sunderland, backs to the wall win. 

V Hull, we were shite for 70 minutes. 

V Watford, best performance under Manning. 

Very much a case of the good, the bad and the ugly. Great to win 3 in a row but let's not pretend we showed real improvements in those games. A duck is a duck. 

Being critical, it should be 5 wins on the bounce as Brum and Millwall were there for the taking and we put it two performances with very little attacking threat. 

Why do you keep mentioning Pearson? 

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 hours ago, UncleRed said:

I’ve experienced Ashton gate multiple times when the atmosphere was worse than that today, and about the death of football people keep banging on about, that’s their opinion and not factual. I for one don’t find it boring watching the team I support live, playing that style. And I’m sure I’m not the only one.

 

I agree today was “shite”. But name me a team that has never played “shite”. And yes I did attend today, supporting the team no matter the circumstances.

I have too, Boro and Norwich was just as bad as today. 

It's becoming a bit of a theme for home games, wonder why...

7 hours ago, UncleRed said:

Or you just acknowledge it wasn’t the best and get on with it instead of crying about it like children.

So you are quite happy to share your opinions on a FORUM, but you do not believe others should do the same? 

7 hours ago, UncleRed said:

if only football was that easy aye. Like the fans who shout forward and moan whenever a pass goes sideways. If only people understand that the answer to winning at football consisted of just passing forwards every single time. Clowns.

Football has many variables game by game, not one fan has all the information at his disposal. So instead of questioning things you and we know nothing about, I say we just get on with “supporting” the club we all supposedly support.

Aha here we go again. You thinking you have the right to control what others say and if they say something you don't like, you insult them by calling them clowns. 

If someone is shouting forward what's that got to do with you? Stop crying about it like a child mate and accept that others are free to say what they like. Maybe they'd not shout forwards if we didn't keep passing it SIDEWAYS. 

7 hours ago, UncleRed said:

But I’m not an idiot and can admit the footballs been more entertaining to watch the last few weeks.

Has it? Really? When? Watford granted but when else? You can't just say something and then it's a fact, that's not how it works. 

Maybe you are entertained by watching the ball go sideways. The rest of us are bored shitless watching it. 

Edited January 2 by W-S-M Seagull

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You mean the bit where he said LM was wrong to pick x, pick y, pick z, but then said he accepted that LM needed to rotate and LM should’ve played Andy King or Jed Meerholz instead.  Was pure Patridge for me tonight.

I said pretty much, not all

[Sir Geoff]

11 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

I didn’t say anything about a rebuild. I think we need a CM and a striker. 
That was needed before manning, the rest I think will be fine. 
 

I don’t think Manning has set us up to be so slow on the ball today and negative. 
 

Personally think we will get there. It’s still early days 

So why didn't he change it from the touchline. Issue some instructions to move the ball quicker, change the shape, anything other than doing nothing.

[RollsRoyce]

Not sure why we are discussing Pep. That was not the vision that our Technical Director gave (Ex of X, previously known as Twitter, but now returned after 3 wins, but soon to disappear after 3 losses) on our in-house, pre-planned question interview. Not once did he state we are looking to be a high possession side, building from the back, Mr Tinnion stated that we are already playing, from youth to first team the football he has instilled as the core ethos of the club. And Pep style is not part of that. Far from it. 

Of course that does demand a subsequent question. Why then did he go out and contract a coach that does not play the type of football he described in the interview? It would be like putting Klopp in charge of Man City and Pep taking over at Liverpool.

You can only conclude our Technical director and owners have not got a clue what they are doing. 

[Fuber]

7 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

I criticised the poster because he went on absolute ramble around Guardiola had ruined football and was a fraud which of course is absolute rubbish. I said the performance wasn’t great, that’s not defending the performance. Anyone who went today would know that it was probably the worst performance of the Manning era 

Scrumps main point, to me, was the effort by clubs (and managers) attempting to emulate Guardiola as being a poor strategy, comparing it to the style yesterday, and that without tempo it means very little.

The Etihad comment is arguably wide of the mark, agreed - the PL as a whole has become more and more sterile.

The issue here is you just insulted the poster without any context. Then meaning you were criticised in turn as people thought the criticism of Scrumps post could be taken as a defence of the performance.

"Not Great" performance could still be interpreted as mediocre or OK, and it just wasn't - at least in my opinion, for clarity.

It was just very very poor against a mediocre Millwall side. Agree to disagree.

[Cowshed]

8 hours ago, Fuber said:

That's not exactly outside the norm for any team playing Seffiled United this season - but again also Villa have higher quality players and could break them down.

 Villa average midtable in every metric for touches. https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/possession/Premier-League-Stats - SHU bottom for possession with an average of 36%.

Possession is only slightly above division average. Explained by an equally slightly above average number of successful (%) take-ons.

As a comparison - West Ham in 6th average 41%.

When Villa are playing for a goal however - they tend to wing-play.  6th most crosses in the League. Added to which themselves and Wsst Ham are 4th and 2nd in the league for goals direct from counters.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting possession isn't useful, it is, especially at killing off games or tiring the opposition - but it depends on personnel and how its being used.

As an example- see if you can guess which two teams in the PLs match the image is from.

Vila, play through the thirds, from a base of possession. 

[Fuber]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

 

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Vila, play through the thirds, from a base of possession.

Correct that's its Villa, except they didn't win from a base of possession. They in fact had 46% of possession, against Man City, and regularly played on the break down the wings when Man City went to play inverted on the transition.

Man City had two shots on target. Despite having more of a ball - as Villa were more organised on closing quickly in their half man to man and turned them over, with pace.

Not saying, again, that you can't win with possession - but all it takes is one error with the ball and you can concede. At this level it's easier to force that single error than thread a perfect 30 yard through ball. You can worry about the former when you get to the Prem like Brighton and Bournemouth have done. As NP said, at this level it's fine margins working with what you have.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

And what about all the shite inbetween? 

Bit of context required here. 

V Sunderland, backs to the wall win. 

V Hull, we were shite for 70 minutes. 

V Watford, best performance under Manning. 

Very much a case of the good, the bad and the ugly. Great to win 3 in a row but let's not pretend we showed real improvements in those games. A duck is a duck. 

Being critical, it should be 5 wins on the bounce as Brum and Millwall were there for the taking and we put it two performances with very little attacking threat. 

Why do you keep mentioning Pearson? 

I kinda agree.  (Totally disagree about Hull though)

I’m not that fussed about winning runs, losing runs, per se (except momentum +/-), whether we win more at home than away or vice-versa.

Ultimately we need to win more than we lose to move up the table.

Despite a good run, we are back at equal wins and losses.  That good run recovered us from a bad run where we slipped to less wins than losses.

We are witnessing a mid table squad showing all the inconsistent of a mid table squad.  We are seeing some positives against some opponents and some deficiencies against others.

I’m positive about Liam Manning, but I still think results won’t be much different under him.

You know I’m into data, and the only things that have materially changed are:

• patience in possession
• patience in the press (but good triggers)

Our attacking output - chances / shots / xG - has regressed slightly 

Our defensive output - has improved slightly.

Simplistic view of why - both our play and our opponents play is more structured.  Our patience in possession gives time to our opponents to get back into shape. And vice-versa.

Unless others have different definitions, it isn’t more attacking, more front foot.  It’s not creating more chances, nor better chances.

It’s still relatively early days.  We are about where we should be - 11th.  He needs the window to bolster us.

[Dr Balls]

Ever since we made it back into the Championship under Cotterill, we have struggled against teams that sit back, defend and gift us the majority of possession. That only changed more recently as Scott grew into that role of driving forward from midfield.

TGH is the next best thing that we currently have in the squad for that role, but if you don’t start him then we really struggle. And the statistics have been pretty damning for a long time - we are better without the ball I.e. we win more often when we have less of the possession, which was why we often did better against better teams and ended up drawing a blank against teams at the bottom who were scrapping for points. It also explains our years of poor home form and comparatively better away form.

Nige had us playing as a counter-attacking side because he realised that we were better suited to that approach. That requires pace up front, which is where Sykes, Bell, Weimann and Wells all fit in. And that’s also why Nige had targeted improving fitness levels pre-season.

Our good run at the beginning of last season was really with a counter-attacking style, with both Wells and Conway up front. But even then they needed someone playing through balls from midfield, and with the best will in the world that is not something any of us would describe as a strength of either James or Williams. So setting up with both of them in midfield yesterday was always likely to be pretty uninspiring.

There are some decent players in our squad who on their day can play as well as anyone in this division. The trick is how to fit them into a team and formation that maximises its positives and minimises its weaknesses. My understanding from how his teams played previously was that Manning was keen on quick transitions. That would suit most of our squad in a way that possession-based football would not. And he also really needs a “Plan B” when “Plan A” isn’t working. I don’t want the LJ “clubs in the bag” approach but having the option of a strong target man up front as an alternative would really help.

I accept that Manning has only had 11 games as Head Coach with our squad and at this level, but if he and his coaching team haven’t started to appreciate some of the issues that many of us can see then that would be worrying.

[Charlie BCFC]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

And what about all the shite inbetween? 

Bit of context required here. 

V Sunderland, backs to the wall win. 

V Hull, we were shite for 70 minutes. 

V Watford, best performance under Manning. 

Very much a case of the good, the bad and the ugly. Great to win 3 in a row but let's not pretend we showed real improvements in those games. A duck is a duck. 

Being critical, it should be 5 wins on the bounce as Brum and Millwall were there for the taking and we put it two performances with very little attacking threat. 

Why do you keep mentioning Pearson? 

Sunderland for the first half I’d say it was even, but just before the goal we had a very good spell and it was coming. Second half backs to the wall as you said.

Hull I personally thought we played well most of the game, was just a period before half time where we switched off.

[Charlie BCFC]

10 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

The problem with this is it completely disregards Millwall. Pretty much 541 and happy to draw 0-0 and have some set pieces with their giants all over the pitch.  
 

Also disregards a ref that let them be physical and go through the back of our players and get away with a number of pushes in the back. No problem with a ref interpreting the game that way.

 

We are not a physical side and you can argue we could use a few more bigger lads. However, we don’t have them and especially up front. We also lack pace in general. To put this all on a style of play is ridiculous. This would look a lot better with Southampton’s or Leeds players. Truth is we just don’t have anyone exceptional up front. Hopefully this is addressed in January. One player of a higher level will make it easier for what we have in the squad already. 

Really bugged me how Hutchinson finished the game without getting carded, good player don’t get me wrong but with the amount of fouls he made I’d like to see how good he was on a yellow

[JoeAman08]

13 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Really bugged me how Hutchinson finished the game without getting carded, good player don’t get me wrong but with the amount of fouls he made I’d like to see how good he was on a yellow

Yep ref let them play aggressively. I didn’t mind it too much but it suits them more than us for sure. He went through the back of Conway multiple times yesterday and I felt for TC a bit as not much more he can do. Would take a different type of forward to deal with that yesterday and we don’t have that in the squad. 

[Dr Balls]

3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yep ref let them play aggressively. I didn’t mind it too much but it suits them more than us for sure. He went through the back of Conway multiple times yesterday and I felt for TC a bit as not much more he can do. Would take a different type of forward to deal with that yesterday and we don’t have that in the squad. 

Hate to say it but I don’t think Hutchinson would have been able to do that against Chris Martin. It’s his type of player that we have failed to replace.