Too Much Negativity

[Mr Popodopolous]

Saw this on my feed, dunno if it is in the right thread or deserves a thread of its own.

Slight grounds for positivity. On paper.

Edited February 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[Street red]

2 hours ago, RUSSEL85 said:

And Oldham Athletic

Crikey forgot about them Darren Beckford graeme sharp etc 

[formerly known as ivan]

All negativity is the boards doing, plain and simple.

If you look back at the 3-2 home defeat by Stoke, the 2-0 loss at Cardiff, there was never this much negativity even at those moments. It was accepted that those results would happen but we were building.

The sacking of NP and the comments that followed changed the mindset completely. We no longer accept performances like Friday night as the board made it clear we are more than capable of competing with what was an outstanding Leeds side.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Street red said:

Crikey forgot about them Darren Beckford graeme sharp etc 

Ian “mullet” Marshall.

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Great posting recently btw.

+++++

No 2nd reset was required.  Let the injured players return.  Let the bloke who played a huge part in the reset start grooming his successor, or finding the next one.  Be ready to implement when appropriate.

Who knows, Nige might have found out he needed to step-back due to illness anyway.

This didn’t need pressing the panic button.

(not forgetting, Curtis, Jason and Dave + Andy and Matty in the summer)

 

 

 

I dont think the management clearout was football related.

I think the new structure was relayed to Pearson who declined to report to Tinnion.

Dont blame him.

[INCRED]

On 03/02/2024 at 09:00, redkev said:

Not defending last nights performance but I think you will find Leeds we’re in a different place then , they have got better and better since the season has gone on and we have played them right in the middle of them being  in an extremely rich vein of form - still no excuse for last nights poor performance as I said .

I recall we played them first game of the season 4/5 years ago and got schooled and lost 3-1. We were miles off them that day under LJ 

The likes of Leicester, Southampton & Leeds will always be superior to other teams in this league because of the resources available to them 

In realty we are a 10th - 14th team currently based on the resources we have but now and again a team can buy & sell wisely and build a team that find a way of competing and achieving a top 6 place and then get promoted through the play offs 

Luton & Coventry have shown what is possible and even Ipswich albeit they have started to fall away slightly 

my point is, there will be games where the team performs below the usual acceptable standard especially when they come up against teams in form with higher calibre players and we need to accept this will happen occasionally but over 46 games if we can average 1.8 - 2 points per game then it is possible to finish in the top 6 but many stars have to align, very much like 2008 

Manning will be given time and there will be personnel changes again in the summer 

I used to be a ST holder up until 3 years ago and I honestly lost faith and fell out of love with the club purely because I was bored stiff watching us play and feed of scraps with no pattern of play and seeing players stealing a wage 

With what I have seen so far since Manning has been brought in, I feel as though we are seeing some form of playing style albeit it’s work in progress and it may take the rest of the season and the summer until we really see the fruits of his coaching and young talented players being integrated. At least now I can see a better style of football with structure and players who actually play for the shirt 

I may be convinced to get a ST for 2024/25 season just yet 

[fgrsimon]

1 hour ago, Street red said:

Crikey forgot about them Darren Beckford graeme sharp etc 

FA Cup Semi Final too!

[RollsRoyce]

Not sure about negativity . Realism and recognition that J Lansdown , Tinnion and Manning are poorly equipped to take the club forward . It would be bad enough to have one of those 3 roles covered by a weak link , but to have all three is a rinse and repeat of all that has come before. 
 

If that is the dream team then it will be another 2 years whilst we go through the motions before the force of evidence is such that yet again the club has to accept it messed up. Again. Again. 
 

The club needs a reset from top to bottom. 

[Street red]

11 minutes ago, fgrsimon said:

FA Cup Semi Final too!

Doesn't it put things into perspective when we have owners that have invested over what 25 years and we've achieved league 1 champions and papa freight rover cup thingy (what ever it's called ) win at wembley it's not exactly great but we established ourselves in the championship.

[Ivorguy]

1 minute ago, Street red said:

Doesn't it put things into perspective when we have owners that have invested over what 25 years and we've achieved league 1 champions and papa freight rover cup thingy (what ever it's called ) win at wembley it's not exactly great but we established ourselves in the championship.

No , no, no.  Face the truth for a city and hinterland the size of Bristol, with a solid fan base, we should have done far better over last two decades and more.  Top 6, Europe in how many years was it.  It is plain pathetic 

[Street red]

Just now, Ivorguy said:

No , no, no.  Face the truth for a city and hinterland the size of Bristol, with a solid fan base, we should have done far better over last two decades and more.  Top 6, Europe in how many years was it.  It is plain pathetic 

Oh it's very pathetic and the size of Bristol plus the size of fan base outside Bristol which is a good percentage then it's a massive massive underachievement. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'll play Devil's Advocate a bit.

I'm not altogether convinced by the shape, the start under Manning and Jon Lansdown and Tinnion in their current roles to say the least. However for all that the January business and good young players looks interesting.

The problem is how far do we want to push it..we could go to Hull type recruitment with a tojbg manager (for Rosenior maybe read Manning) building on a solid base, giving it 2-3 years go to at it..Hull were a bit up and down last season.

We have done heavy lifting. Semenyo was probably important for FFP, Scott was the clincher in providing major headroom.

*I am still in the NP and his team, plus Gould and Tinnion in the appropriate role as opposed to his present one camp- but is a Hull type blueprint building on a solid base something that may materialise?

Edited February 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

10 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

Not sure about negativity . Realism and recognition that J Lansdown , Tinnion and Manning are poorly equipped to take the club forward . It would be bad enough to have one of those 3 roles covered by a weak link , but to have all three is a rinse and repeat of all that has come before. 
 

If that is the dream team then it will be another 2 years whilst we go through the motions before the force of evidence is such that yet again the club has to accept it messed up. Again. Again. 
 

The club needs a reset from top to bottom. 

Many know what it needs but we all know what bullshit gets spouted if you dare suggest that so I won't bother.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, mason said:

Normally agree with most of your posts but you seem to be slipping in the hope for the future view as for the latest window;

Is one not injured and more than likely only here till summer? another who cannot hardly get a game for a club I`ve never heard of and is not exp in the championship and also not perm? and is one not even here till the summer? the other young gun is just a prospect who wont be starting in the first team anytime soon? cant see how thats good myself

Oh forgot the exp offload who scored for a real top 6 contender after playing in his fav position.

The rebuild and offload will continue this summer...again fuelled by mainly hope and little cash.

The squad is starting to have a bit of churn, hopefully not a recurring theme. Weimann should have been utilised through the middle more yes..I thought so in his first season even more when he made the great excellent yet unspotted by us early runs.

Twine- hopefully back in 2 weeks. His longevity here who knows.. if it is merely loan with no option or no realistic option, not least as he us Cup tied then it is pointless and takes us back towards territory of signing for the sake of it.

Bird is one I've been keen on for some time. Seems to be a technically and tactically sound youngish midfielder. With Championship experience, plus playing with Knight again.

Dire is unfortunately named and until we see him play for us we really don't know. Hard to make a judgment either way..on paper seems to be young, quick and can play alont the front however he is an unknown quantity.

Likewise Murphy who I doubt we'll see until next season, Stokes next season or later.

TGH, I'm reasonably happy we signed him permanently, are you? Good room for growth too age wise.

In respect of outgoings some risks IMO.

1) Conway and the lack of a new contract signed.

2) If say James, King and to a degree Williams (Weimann is already gone) leave at once that's a lot if experience and know-how. Wells is the only true senior pro? Naismith too I guess.

3) Pring. I'd say no dice as we don't need to sell and he has no Book Value as such being an Academyish Product but otoh a sale is pure profit...but if we don't need to sell then no IMO. TV money rising too will help all clubs but we could be or should be reasonably placed.

Lastly Manning. Is he back 3 or back 4, it is hard to keep track..some of the ins and outs should point to a back 4, a return to 4-3-3 but he seems determined to go wirh the current shape which may not fully suit us.

[REDOXO]

11 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

No , no, no.  Face the truth for a city and hinterland the size of Bristol, with a solid fan base, we should have done far better over last two decades and more.  Top 6, Europe in how many years was it.  It is plain pathetic 

 

11 hours ago, Street red said:

Oh it's very pathetic and the size of Bristol plus the size of fan base outside Bristol which is a good percentage then it's a massive massive underachievement. 

It is pathetic. What’s more pathetic is our supporters accepting what ever that was on Friday and explaining it off in a way that it was all some how to do with the opposition being who they were with parachute money

Leeds United players did not pass tackle run for us! We were shit all on our own!! Once our supporters (solid fan base) stop accepting dross and excuses from the club and repeating them themselves we might become a little more competitive after all we are a huge city with a huge catchment area!

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 hours ago, INCRED said:

I recall we played them first game of the season 4/5 years ago and got schooled and lost 3-1. We were miles off them that day under LJ 

The likes of Leicester, Southampton & Leeds will always be superior to other teams in this league because of the resources available to them 

In realty we are a 10th - 14th team currently based on the resources we have but now and again a team can buy & sell wisely and build a team that find a way of competing and achieving a top 6 place and then get promoted through the play offs 

Luton & Coventry have shown what is possible and even Ipswich albeit they have started to fall away slightly 

my point is, there will be games where the team performs below the usual acceptable standard especially when they come up against teams in form with higher calibre players and we need to accept this will happen occasionally but over 46 games if we can average 1.8 - 2 points per game then it is possible to finish in the top 6 but many stars have to align, very much like 2008 

Manning will be given time and there will be personnel changes again in the summer 

I used to be a ST holder up until 3 years ago and I honestly lost faith and fell out of love with the club purely because I was bored stiff watching us play and feed of scraps with no pattern of play and seeing players stealing a wage 

With what I have seen so far since Manning has been brought in, I feel as though we are seeing some form of playing style albeit it’s work in progress and it may take the rest of the season and the summer until we really see the fruits of his coaching and young talented players being integrated. At least now I can see a better style of football with structure and players who actually play for the shirt 

I may be convinced to get a ST for 2024/25 season just yet 

We have a turnover tbh that will be comfortably top 10. I reckon 7th or 8th this year but no lower than 10th.

5 Parachute Clubs and Sunderland ahead of us definitely.

Then it comes down to how much risk we want to take, how far we want to push FFP etc..how much headroom from then into now we have.

Leeds played us off the park in 2019 on the Opening day but weren't a Parachute Club. Bigger resources and an outstanding manager in Bielsa.

Being a bigger club on a roll or upward curve as they were they were resources and momentum absolutely will have been in their favour too. They also took FFP close to limits whereas that year I estimate we could've spent a further £30m across fees and amortisation and not failed.

The big caveat though, does it get us up??

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[Street red]

50 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

 

It is pathetic. What’s more pathetic is our supporters accepting what ever that was on Friday and explaining it off in a way that it was all some how to do with the opposition being who they were with parachute money

Leeds United players did not pass tackle run for us! We were shit all on our own!! Once our supporters (solid fan base) stop accepting dross and excuses from the club and repeating them themselves we might become a little more competitive after all we are a huge city with a huge catchment area!

We shouldn't expect performances like that it's no excuse anymore like you said if we want to be more competitive then we shouldn't expect anything less and that comes from board level as well because there petty excuses this season have been nothing but embarrassing.

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Street red said:

We shouldn't expect performances like that it's no excuse anymore like you said if we want to be more competitive then we shouldn't expect anything less and that comes from board level as well because there petty excuses this season have been nothing but embarrassing.

They have! I expect it from Jon and his lackies! 
 

However what I have found most bemusing is the compliance of our supporters to the club hierarchy’s idiocy and supporter acceptance of the utter disdain they are treated to. This can be seen in the stands, and throughout the various media, written and broadcast! For instance Someone soon has to not be an apologist on Sound of the City, that would be a start. A bit of passion and anger would help everyone! As would begging Twentyman to take his old job back!
 

All the time The head slappers on here continue to ignore the garbage in front of them and make excuses for ineptitude our inabilities will continue!
 

44 years of failure and counting, a life time gone for so many and our supporters on the whole still don’t get it. We are part of the problem/failure!!

 

 

[Monkeh]

26 minutes ago, Street red said:

We shouldn't expect performances like that it's no excuse anymore like you said if we want to be more competitive then we shouldn't expect anything less and that comes from board level as well because there petty excuses this season have been nothing but embarrassing.

Spot on, the team can lose that's not the problem it's the manner of defeat that's rhe problem,

Zero fight is inexcusable 

[Derek]

Based on the last 5 league games Bristol City and Blackburn Rovers are the bottom two clubs.

Blackburn have scored 6 goals and conceded 12

City have scored 3 goals and conceded 7

Not bad for a top 6 side!

[Clutton Caveman]

On 03/02/2024 at 08:35, MarcusX said:

Whilst I generally agree with you, what concerns me last night is the way we setup and played. Stinks of naivety that LM felt we could go out and try and play the same way against a very good Leeds side. After about 10-15 mins and that Tanner slip we looked devoid of confidence and there was no plan B.

Leeds are very good, I won’t deny that and some teams we just won’t beat, but that was a dreadful performance.

No plan B is a long running problem

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

 

It is pathetic. What’s more pathetic is our supporters accepting what ever that was on Friday and explaining it off in a way that it was all some how to do with the opposition being who they were with parachute money

Leeds United players did not pass tackle run for us! We were shit all on our own!! Once our supporters (solid fan base) stop accepting dross and excuses from the club and repeating them themselves we might become a little more competitive after all we are a huge city with a huge catchment area!

Its an argument that doesn't wash for me. 

Last season we played the best team in the world, a team that later on in the season wrote themselves into the history books and we came away from that game with our heads held high. Yea we lost but we gave a good account of ourselves. 

Same for earlier on in the season away at Leicester and Leeds. 

But Friday was terrible. Ultimately its 11 men vs 11 men and we simply did not match them for effort. If you can't match a team for effort then you have little chance. I can accept a team being better than us but what I can't accept is having such a weak mentality on Friday night.

Leeds aren't invincible either. The argument of losing to a better team falls apart when you consider we recently beat 6th placed West Ham who are a considerable better team than Leeds. 

Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Its an argument that doesn't wash for me. 

Last season we played the best team in the world, a team that later on in the season wrote themselves into the history books and we came away from that game with our heads held high. Yea we lost but we gave a good account of ourselves. 

Same for earlier on in the season away at Leicester and Leeds. 

But Friday was terrible. Ultimately its 11 men vs 11 men and we simply did not match them for effort. If you can't match a team for effort then you have little chance. I can accept a team being better than us but what I can't accept is having such a weak mentality on Friday night.

Leeds aren't invincible either. The argument of losing to a better team falls apart when you consider we recently beat 6th placed West Ham who are a considerable better team than Leeds. 

Exactly!  

[Clutton Caveman]

20 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think the top 10 budget claim is true.

Whether we actually have a top 10 expenditure is a very different issue.

I've looked through the League this year and believe only the Parachute clubs and Sunderland feel nailed on to have a higher revenue. Maybe one or two that are variable either way of course.

Whether we're 7th or a bit below can be a matter of speculation but I do think we comfortably have a top 10 revenue in the division.

Parachute Payments- Solidarity Payments gap being eliminated would reduce it further but otoh sides such as Leeds, Leicester and Southampton 3 unusually strong clubs relegated at once would exceed our income anyway.

Parachute Payments are ruining the Championship. As an alternative I would like to see a rule change that all Prem player and staff contracts contain a relegation clause there their package reduces significantly when relegation occurs. Most contracts are not more than 3 years in duration so over a 3 year period the parachute payments could be phased out. This would protect relegated teams and get rid of the 2 paced league.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Parachute Payments are ruining the Championship. As an alternative I would like to see a rule change that all Prem player and staff contracts contain a relegation clause there their package reduces significantly when relegation occurs. Most contracts are not more than 3 years in duration so over a 3 year period the parachute payments could be phased out. This would protect relegated teams and get rid of the 2 paced league.

There are Relegation Reduction clauses and tbh Amortisation can incentivise clubs to push that further.

That aside, the reductions are typically 25-50%.

Even if we disregard Parachute Payments for a second, the fact is we probably have the 6th or 7th Highest Income or 8th even with this in mind..are we making the best use of it?

My view is that Pooling Parachute Payments and Solidarity Payments smoothes the cliff-edge somewhat, or even deduction from Revenue but not Cash Flow of the gap between Parachute and Solidarity Payments.

Thereby cutting about £40-45m from the deficit in a stroke while not forcing relegation to mean instant administration for a host of clubs.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Its an argument that doesn't wash for me. 

Last season we played the best team in the world, a team that later on in the season wrote themselves into the history books and we came away from that game with our heads held high. Yea we lost but we gave a good account of ourselves. 

Same for earlier on in the season away at Leicester and Leeds. 

But Friday was terrible. Ultimately its 11 men vs 11 men and we simply did not match them for effort. If you can't match a team for effort then you have little chance. I can accept a team being better than us but what I can't accept is having such a weak mentality on Friday night.

Leeds aren't invincible either. The argument of losing to a better team falls apart when you consider we recently beat 6th placed West Ham who are a considerable better team than Leeds. 

It’s a hard one to ignore or write off WSM but I’m hanging on to it hopefully being an outlier , with the short turnaround and opponents in Leeds a really bad combination.

Even then , there was some extra concerns and I’m now looking at how we react 

The Forest game May skew that somewhat as I expect players , maybe understandably finding some extra puff  and drive

It’s The next few league games are an important phase in resetting a marker , in , at least performance

[Super]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Its an argument that doesn't wash for me. 

Last season we played the best team in the world, a team that later on in the season wrote themselves into the history books and we came away from that game with our heads held high. Yea we lost but we gave a good account of ourselves. 

Same for earlier on in the season away at Leicester and Leeds. 

But Friday was terrible. Ultimately its 11 men vs 11 men and we simply did not match them for effort. If you can't match a team for effort then you have little chance. I can accept a team being better than us but what I can't accept is having such a weak mentality on Friday night.

Leeds aren't invincible either. The argument of losing to a better team falls apart when you consider we recently beat 6th placed West Ham who are a considerable better team than Leeds. 

The 3 games you mention we barely laid a glove on them. Ok it's Man City they outclass most teams but Leicester we were outclassed and Leeds away where the same as the other night we were lucky to only lose by a single goal. As per usual you are trying to make this into a Pearson v Manning debate fact is we had plenty of poor performances under Pearson and it's continuing under Manning. 

[Sir Geoff]

3 minutes ago, Super said:

The 3 games you mention we barely laid a glove on them. Ok it's Man City they outclass most teams but Leicester we were outclassed and Leeds away where the same as the other night we were lucky to only lose by a single goal. As per usual you are trying to make this into a Pearson v Manning debate fact is we had plenty of poor performances under Pearson and it's continuing under Manning. 

That's just nonsense. Leeds fans were praising us as the best team they'd played up to that point. Leicester we lost to a penalty.

[Super]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

That's just nonsense. Leeds fans were praising us as the best team they'd played up to that point. Leicester we lost to a penalty.

Oh come on we could still be playing at Leicester now and we still wouldn't have scored. Did we even have a shot on target?

Edited February 5 by Super

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Super said:

The 3 games you mention we barely laid a glove on them. Ok it's Man City they outclass most teams but Leicester we were outclassed and Leeds away where the same as the other night we were lucky to only lose by a single goal. As per usual you are trying to make this into a Pearson v Manning debate fact is we had plenty of poor performances under Pearson and it's continuing under Manning. 

We played well v Man City, we were denied a clear penalty not long after they scored first, stayed in the game quite late and 3-0 flattered them a little albeit they still probably had gears.

Was it Bell or Conway also missed a great chance during a little phase of pressure not long before their 2nd.

[Super]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We played well v Man City, we were denied a clear penalty not long after they scored first, stayed in the game quite late and 3-0 flattered them a little albeit they still probably had gears.

Was it Bell or Conway also missed a great chance during a little phase of pressure not long before their 2nd.

It wasn't even a penalty. We battled yes but they never broke sweat.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We played well v Man City, we were denied a clear penalty not long after they scored first, stayed in the game quite late and 3-0 flattered them a little albeit they still probably had gears.

Was it Bell or Conway also missed a great chance during a little phase of pressure not long before their 2nd.

On about 15-20 mins someone was clattered. Penalty denied as is so often the case for us.

There was also an excellent chance, missed. Watch it back?

Just seen again, Bell missed a golden chance at 1-0. Golden. It came at him quickly I guess...but the atmosphere was up and a bit of pressure was on at the time.

Townsend thought penalty.

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[redsquirrel]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

They have! I expect it from Jon and his lackies! 
 

However what I have found most bemusing is the compliance of our supporters to the club hierarchy’s idiocy and supporter acceptance of the utter disdain they are treated to. This can be seen in the stands, and throughout the various media, written and broadcast! For instance Someone soon has to not be an apologist on Sound of the City, that would be a start. A bit of passion and anger would help everyone! As would begging Twentyman to take his old job back!
 

All the time The head slappers on here continue to ignore the garbage in front of them and make excuses for ineptitude our inabilities will continue!
 

44 years of failure and counting, a life time gone for so many and our supporters on the whole still don’t get it. We are part of the problem/failure!!

 

 

tinnion would shit himself if GT came back

[Mr Popodopolous]

One more thing.

Vs to varying degrees, Man City, Leicester and Leeds in 2023. We were outplayed but we were cohesive. We looked like we had a plan, even if that plan varied.

Friday we did not. Only in a few games under Manning have we looked cohesive IMO.

[Monkeh]

31 minutes ago, Super said:

The 3 games you mention we barely laid a glove on them. Ok it's Man City they outclass most teams but Leicester we were outclassed and Leeds away where the same as the other night we were lucky to only lose by a single goal. As per usual you are trying to make this into a Pearson v Manning debate fact is we had plenty of poor performances under Pearson and it's continuing under Manning. 

Complete and utter horseshit 

A prime example of rewriting history to suit a narrative 

[Sheltons Army]

28 minutes ago, Super said:

Oh come on we could still be playing at Leicester now and we still wouldn't have scored. Did we even have a shot on target?

Didn’t embarrass ourselves though , which forget the score line ,  to be quite honest , we did on Friday 

[Super]

7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Complete and utter horseshit 

A prime example of rewriting history to suit a narrative 

WTF are you on about?

[Super]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Didn’t embarrass ourselves though , which forget the score line ,  to be quite honest , we did on Friday 

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. I agree about Friday the point i was trying to make was that we have had a lot of poor performances this season not Just under Manning.

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 minutes ago, Super said:

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. I agree about Friday the point i was trying to make was that we have had a lot of poor performances this season not Just under Manning.

Ah would that be when we had 11 players out if you mean the final game of NP. We stayed in it quite well? Do you mean this season.

We were utterly screwed..We had to field Sykes LB, Pring CB, an Academy product who I'd never heard of at RB.

Think Mehmeti was a 10 or something, our shape was due to injuries all over the place.

Tanner, McCrorie

Vyner, Atkinson

Roberts

Naismith, James, King

Benarous

I forget the last 2 but there were 2 others out too.

They were Williams and Wells.

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous
I remember now

[bearded_red]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. 

You are aware of the team we put out that day? How was is is ‘embarrassing’?!

An absolute bare bones team with numerous players out of position played out a perfectly even game. 

Edited February 5 by bearded_red

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, Super said:

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. I agree about Friday the point i was trying to make was that we have had a lot of poor performances this season not Just under Manning.

Cardiff was poor , but blimey , there were a few factors why (I was hoping for a game)

Ive said I hope Friday was an outlier because of the short turnaround and the style , and quality , of opponents as a bad Combination  

But that doesn’t excuse the set up or selection , the lack of change in game tactically etc and the irritation between players made it look even worse

Lets be honest , it was a bit of a car crash , really awful

As I said , Let’s hope an outlier , but even then m for me, still questions about LM and Friday 

[Super]

7 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Cardiff was poor , but blimey , there were a few factors why (I was hoping for a game)

Ive said I hope Friday was an outlier because of the short turnaround and the style , and quality , of opponents as a bad Combination  

But that doesn’t excuse the set up or selection , the lack of change in game tactically etc and the irritation between players made it look even worse

Lets be honest , it was a bit of a car crash , really awful

As I said , Let’s hope an outlier , but even then m for me, still questions about LM and Friday 

Absolutely it was a horrendous performance on Friday.

[George Rs]

11 minutes ago, Super said:

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. I agree about Friday the point i was trying to make was that we have had a lot of poor performances this season not Just under Manning.

Cardiff away was a relatively even game in which they took their chances we didn’t. 
 

Cardiff away was also the game that Mark Sykes started at LB, an uncapped youngster started at RB, Cornick started in the 9. Was the game we only named 8 subs, two of them keepers. Our entire bench had less than 70 professional football appearances, combined. 
 

Losing a relatively even derby game away, with only 11 fit senior players (also only two fit defenders) is in no one comparable to getting comprehensively battered at home to a promotion chasing team when we’ve had arguably the best availability of players since august. Score line flattered us to an insane degree. On another day we would’ve lost 7-0 in our own backyard. 

[Super]

12 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

You are aware of the team we put out that day? How was is is ‘embarrassing’?!

An absolute bare bones team with numerous players out of position played out a perfectly even game. 

Ok Brum at home and Stoke at home or does Manning get the blame for those as well. I'm not defending Manning the other night was shocking but we have had a lot of these games this season.

[cidercity1987]

Hey @Super, do you enjoy being contrary to pretty much everyone else?

Leeds H was levels of performance worse than Man City H, Leicester A, Leeds A

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Super said:

Ok Brum at home and Stoke at home or does Manning get the blame for those as well. I'm not defending Manning the other night was shocking but we have had a lot of these games this season.

Birmingham yeah, we had a lot of the ball but no real..it was soporific. Wells missed a great chance at 1-0 but they deservedly won.

Stoke we did most things right except finish the job, see it out..We were in most aspects the better side v Stoke.

[Super]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Hey @Super, do you enjoy being contrary to pretty much everyone else?

Leeds H was levels of performance worse than Man City H, Leicester A, Leeds A

Pearson isn't beyond criticism i've seen rubbish under him and Manning just to balance it out.

[George Rs]

8 minutes ago, Super said:

Ok Brum at home and Stoke at home or does Manning get the blame for those as well. I'm not defending Manning the other night was shocking but we have had a lot of these games this season.

No one’s saying those weren’t bad games, but they don’t cancel each other out? 
 

Yes, Pearson had some bad games. Yes, Manning has had some bad games. 
 

The difference is one of them was sacked after poor performances with an injury hit squad, the other was brought into replace him and I quote “push us up towards the top end of the table” yet they’ve had largely similar results? 
 

It’s about optics and perspective. If the club came out when Pearson was sacked and said “we are extremely gratefully for the job Nige has done over the last few seasons but we now feel that the club is ready to go in a different direction now that we are in a more stable position” then a lot less people would be angry. 
 

Instead they spouted bullshit about having a top 6 squad and at some points just lied to fans faces. I’m relatively hopeful about what Manning can do after a whole pre season and a couple of “his own” signings. That doesn’t discount the fact that at times this season has been an avoidable clusterf*ck.

Edited February 5 by George Rs

[bearded_red]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

Ok Brum at home and Stoke at home or does Manning get the blame for those as well. I'm not defending Manning the other night was shocking but we have had a lot of these games this season.

Won’t pretend to have a perfect memory of various crap Bristol City performances, but my memory of the Stoke game was we were the better team and somehow chucked it away by conceding some pretty soft goals. The stats say we had more possession, more shots and a higher xG than Stoke. I do remember Birmingham being fairly crap though.

Happy for people to think I’m talking rubbish, but I don’t remember being as obviously outplayed as we were Friday, certainly at home, in a long time. No doubt there will be plenty of crap performances that can be brought up, but Friday night was approaching the levels of that Brentford game under Lee Johnson that I thought we should have chucked the towel in and allowed everyone to go home early. Actually failed to have a shot of any kind in that game, pretty special achievement that.

 

Edited February 5 by bearded_red

[Super]

Just now, George Rs said:

No one’s saying those weren’t bad games, but they don’t cancel each other out? 
 

Yes, Pearson had some bad games. Yes, Manning has had some bad games. 
 

The difference is one of them was sacked after poor performances with an injury hit squad, the other was brought into replace him and I quote “push us up towards the top end of the table” yet they’ve had largely similar results? 
 

It’s about optics and perspective. If the club came out when Pearson was sacked and said “we are extremely gratefully for the job Nige has done over the last few seasons but we now feel that the club is ready to go in a different direction now that we are in a more stable position” then a lot less people would be angry. 
 

Instead they spouted bullshit about having a top 6 squad and at some points just lied to fans faces. I’m relatively hopeful about what Manning can do after a whole pre season and a couple of “his own” signings. That doesn’t discount the fact that at times this season has been an avoidable absolute shambles. 

Pearson is a good manager and struggled here fairly obvious Manning will do the same.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Super said:

Pearson isn't beyond criticism i've seen rubbish under him and Manning just to balance it out.

Definitely not beyond criticism no. Shabbily treated though IMO and perhaps this is not a change to progress us. Hopefully I'm wrong about the progress point.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Pearson is a good manager and struggled here fairly obvious Manning will do the same.

If you lived far away and looked only at results and league tables , you could probably have a good argument for that claim and I accept , it  wasn’t written as a criticism

And yes at times the Football wasn’t particularly entertaining and there were performances and hiccups along his time ......

I always said he wasn’t a Messiah or a coaching genius but he had a lot of top qualities that saved our bacon and set us up) and I think many fans either understood this all along the journey or hopped onboard as it went on.

We won’t ever find out how far he could have taken us

[Mr Popodopolous]

Fwiw the Birmingham game although they were better and we were flat, meh- average.

A Birmingham fan perspective Match Report, gave us some average to reasonable ratings.

https://joysandsorrows.co.uk/2023/08/view-from-the-south-bristol-city-v-birmingham-city-19-august-2023/

[DaveInSA]

13 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

If you lived far away and looked only at results and league tables , you could probably have a good argument for that claim and I accept , it  wasn’t written as a criticism

And yes at times the Football wasn’t particularly entertaining and there were performances and hiccups along his time ......

I always said he wasn’t a Messiah or a coaching genius but he had a lot of top qualities that saved our bacon and set us up) and I think many fans either understood this all along the journey or hopped onboard as it went on.

We won’t ever find out how far he could have taken us

And now, we are about to rip up the fact that our bacon was saved along with a clear view of what we were as a football club and replace it with something else. It makes my blood boil.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, DaveInSA said:

And now, we are about to rip up the fact that our bacon was saved along with a clear view of what we were as a football club and replace it with something else. It makes my blood boil.

It's almost an act of self-sabotage.

I know it isn't but it feels like such a foolish decision, maybe Manning will suddenly change and go back to something more transitional as we go but I dunno...Jon Lansdown and Tinnion, these 2 especially have a lot to answer for.

[ray savino]

Like it or lump it, that’s the choice we’ve got and always had. We can stick with following the team or not bother going down. Always been this way.

Frustrating as it is, I know that I shall probably see my way to buying a season card for next year... more through heart, habit and hope than logic!

What would soften the decision to buy my ticket and give me hope for next season?

1) A top 10 finish with signs that the new regime were turning the corner with more convincing attacking performances and more consistency. I think psychologically getting top 10 would be a clear progressive boost for the club and supporters. A platform to kick on.

2) A transition in style that does not rely on another ridiculous and over expensive churn of playing staff. Invest in a few/couple more quality key players to supplement a solid hard working squad (relatively expensive investment but not to put us up shit creek as before). Also we really do not have the cash for such a churn like before.

3) LM and staff to show more signs and vision to be be adaptable and pragmatic at times in developing his style to get results. Particularly to be more flexible and effective in changing tactics in game to bring results.

If LM and the club can achieve this, then I believe it would start to reunite the fan base and create a less toxic, more positive atmosphere. I don’t want to be able to turn round and carry on spouting “I’ve heard it all before”, just want some hope but most of all some entertainment and the signs of some real success.

Bonus:

To beat Forest and get a nice little run in the cup. Be brave v Man Utd and give them a game (Beat them obviously).

There. Not asking for too much is it. Or is it?

[ray savino]

All of my previous post would be for this season obviously!

Next season a real crack at getting into the top 6!

[ray savino]

10 minutes ago, mason said:

No not at all...wait I lied,,, seriously each to his/her own; (my view is well known I`ll be back when they have gone, whichever div we are in)

Ha. Yes just trying to convince myself that it might all be worth it and stay positive. After 58 seasons of hoping (bar 4 seasons in the top flight, a few of enjoyable and creditable cup runs and lower tier promotions) it’s getting harder to feel positive believe me. I sometimes wish I could change my allegience but it’s too late now. It was all my Dad’s fault for taking me back in 1966!  

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

And now, we are about to rip up the fact that our bacon was saved along with a clear view of what we were as a football club and replace it with something else. It makes my blood boil.

A lot of people try to turn it into a Pearson Vs Manning debate. But the reality for me is that I always look at the bigger picture. There are some people that are/were so anti Nige for whatever reason and they just can't let it go. However for me, whilst I was a big Nige fan, ultimately I'm a fan of Bristol City. 

My over arching concern has always been that Liam Manning does not fit the criteria which was set and what most of us expected. He's a guy that likes to play 3 at the back and he likes to control games through possesion "if the opposition haven't got the ball they can't score" is what he once said. It's the complete polar opposite to everything we've been building towards and it doesn't suit the players we've got. 

Had we of brought someone in that was a continuation of Pearson then I don't think there would be so many pissed off right now and many would have got behind it because at least you can then see the logic in the decision. There would have then been some integrity in this decision. 

But the reason people are pissed off is not mainly because Pearson was sacked but because the plan was ripped up before it came to fruition. I think that's left a very sour taste in lots of people's mouths especially when the club said the change was made to make us compete this season. The timing of it was all wrong.

Their new plan had no chance of being successful this season. The club lied to us at a time that they said they wanted to improve communications. Even Tinnion on RB lied the other day when he tried saying the football is now much better to watch and people are now enjoying it. We can't score and we can't win. What is Tins seeing that we're not? 

Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull

[DaveInSA]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's almost an act of self-sabotage.

I know it isn't but it feels like such a foolish decision, maybe Manning will suddenly change and go back to something more transitional as we go but I dunno...Jon Lansdown and Tinnion, these 2 especially have a lot to answer for.

‘Tis the Lansdown way and will always be thus.

Someone, normally not qualified gets their ear (Ashton, Tinnion), then somehow (by stroking their egos) becomes their “trusted” advisor, part of the inner circle. And then…we get this nonsense. - every time a flip flop of direction.

I’ve been back in the UK for 6 years. My Brother keeps saying, c’mon Dave, get a season ticket. But why would I. It’s completely average. I go to 4-5 games a season. I’ve said this before on this forum I want it to be a little bit better than a little bit worse. And TBF when we had WSM up front then it WAS like that - at least we always looked like scoring a couple (the downside was that our defence was conceding a couple too), but at least I left with a smile on my face  

We need to find combinations of players that work at this level, and have all of them operating at 100% all of the time to stand a chance against the parachute payment clubs. It’s a massive ask.

Maybe Manning can do it. But can we afford to wait for 1,2,3 windows for him to do it?

It’s all so needless and daft. 

[DaveInSA]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

A lot of people try to turn it into a Pearson Vs Manning debate. But the reality for me is that I always look at the bigger picture. There are some people that are/were so anti Nige for whatever reason and they just can't let it go. However for me, whilst I was a big Nige fan, ultimately I'm a fan of Bristol City. 

My over arching concern has always been that Liam Manning does not fit the criteria which was set and what most of us expected. He's a guy that likes to play 3 at the back and he likes to control games through possesion "if the opposition haven't got the ball they can't score" is what he once said. It's the complete polar opposite to everything we've been building towards and it doesn't suit the players we've got. 

Had we of brought someone in that was a continuation of Pearson then I don't think there would be so many pissed off right now and many would have got behind it because at least you can then see the logic in the decision. There would have then been some integrity in this decision. 

But the reason people are pissed off is not mainly because Pearson was sacked but because the plan was ripped up before it came to fruition. I think that's left a very sour taste in lots of people's mouths especially when the club said the change was made to make us compete this season. The timing of it was all wrong.

Their new plan had no chance of being successful this season. The club lied to us at a time that they said they wanted to improve communications. Even Tinnion on RB lied the other day when he tried saying the football is now much better to watch and people are now enjoying it. We can't score and we can't win. What is Tins seeing that we're not? 

This is your best post for a while - way more considered

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

A lot of people try to turn it into a Pearson Vs Manning debate. But the reality for me is that I always look at the bigger picture. There are some people that are/were so anti Nige for whatever reason and they just can't let it go. However for me, whilst I was a big Nige fan, ultimately I'm a fan of Bristol City. 

My over arching concern has always been that Liam Manning does not fit the criteria which was set and what most of us expected. He's a guy that likes to play 3 at the back and he likes to control games through possesion "if the opposition haven't got the ball they can't score" is what he once said. It's the complete polar opposite to everything we've been building towards and it doesn't suit the players we've got. 

Had we of brought someone in that was a continuation of Pearson then I don't think there would be so many pissed off right now and many would have got behind it because at least you can then see the logic in the decision. There would have then been some integrity in this decision. 

But the reason people are pissed off is not mainly because Pearson was sacked but because the plan was ripped up before it came to fruition. I think that's left a very sour taste in lots of people's mouths especially when the club said the change was made to make us compete this season. The timing of it was all wrong.

Their new plan had no chance of being successful this season. The club lied to us at a time that they said they wanted to improve communications. Even Tinnion on RB lied the other day when he tried saying the football is now much better to watch and people are now enjoying it. We can't score and we can't win. What is Tins seeing that we're not? 

The ultimate issue for me is that Manning has to deliver the whole package. On what I’ve seen so far there has been the odd game and spells in games where you can see what it might look like if he gets it right. First half v Forest for example when they couldn’t get the ball off us.

However it’s no good looking easy on the eye and going six weeks without winning a football match. Pearson was being pragmatic for a reason, that’s experience for you. A new manager is always going to have their own philosophy but it’s got to come with results. That’s the challenge over the coming months.

Tinnion is coming across as a bit desperate. He knows what he said and he also knows it ain’t being delivered right now. I said this earlier, the poor timing and rhetoric of the sacking is biting them on the arse as it stands.

[Superjack]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The ultimate issue for me is that Manning has to deliver the whole package. 

He can't deliver the 'whole package', and to be fair that isn't his remit. He is just a coach. 

There was only one person that was delivering the whole package.

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

A lot of people try to turn it into a Pearson Vs Manning debate. But the reality for me is that I always look at the bigger picture. There are some people that are/were so anti Nige for whatever reason and they just can't let it go. However for me, whilst I was a big Nige fan, ultimately I'm a fan of Bristol City. 

My over arching concern has always been that Liam Manning does not fit the criteria which was set and what most of us expected. He's a guy that likes to play 3 at the back and he likes to control games through possesion "if the opposition haven't got the ball they can't score" is what he once said. It's the complete polar opposite to everything we've been building towards and it doesn't suit the players we've got. 

Had we of brought someone in that was a continuation of Pearson then I don't think there would be so many pissed off right now and many would have got behind it because at least you can then see the logic in the decision. There would have then been some integrity in this decision. 

But the reason people are pissed off is not mainly because Pearson was sacked but because the plan was ripped up before it came to fruition. I think that's left a very sour taste in lots of people's mouths especially when the club said the change was made to make us compete this season. The timing of it was all wrong.

Their new plan had no chance of being successful this season. The club lied to us at a time that they said they wanted to improve communications. Even Tinnion on RB lied the other day when he tried saying the football is now much better to watch and people are now enjoying it. We can't score and we can't win. What is Tins seeing that we're not? 

…and we actually have less possession (%) than under Nige!  What we have is a more methodical approach when we have possession, we just can’t control if we don’t have enough.

Just 4/15 league games we’ve had more than 50%.

[W-S-M Seagull]

21 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The ultimate issue for me is that Manning has to deliver the whole package. On what I’ve seen so far there has been the odd game and spells in games where you can see what it might look like if he gets it right. First half v Forest for example when they couldn’t get the ball off us.

However it’s no good looking easy on the eye and going six weeks without winning a football match. Pearson was being pragmatic for a reason, that’s experience for you. A new manager is always going to have their own philosophy but it’s got to come with results. That’s the challenge over the coming months.

Tinnion is coming across as a bit desperate. He knows what he said and he also knows it ain’t being delivered right now. I said this earlier, the poor timing and rhetoric of the sacking is biting them on the arse as it stands.

I think tho Forest were happy for us to play that way? And as already discussed it is the FA cup so im not too sure how much can be learned from cup games.

I listened to Mannings press conference today. He said all the same rubbish that Tinnion did about us now looking good etc and said all we've got to do now is to win games. I don't think Manning is particularly a likeable charismatic personality so saying PR bollocks really doesn't help. I know what I'm seeing and it's not what Tinnion or Manning is saying I'm seeing. The stats back that up. 

I don't think its going to work out for Manning here, I hope it does but it just does not feel like the right fit. I have no doubt that he is an excellent coach but coaches don't always make good managers. 

I think when he does depart he's probably going to look back and realise he made quite a few mistakes. The biggest one being philosophy and behaviours over results. This is the Championship, you don't get time to do that. 

Today he said "we need to get players performing at 6's and 7's before we can expect 8s and 9s" and whilst I understand that. I'd say we had players doing that before he came in. On the one hand he's saying we are playing better but then he's insinuating that players are playing below 6's and 7s and that doesn't stack up to me. LJ bullshit bingo springs to mind. 

Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull

[Numero Uno]

9 minutes ago, Superjack said:

He can't deliver the 'whole package', and to be fair that isn't his remit. He is just a coach. 

There was only one person that was delivering the whole package.

He is in charge of the 1st team whatever his job title is, he has to deliver results like anybody else who is in charge. His remit is to deliver a more exciting style of football AND get results, that’s what I mean by the whole package. If not it’s on to the next reset.

Edited February 5 by Numero Uno

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…and we actually have less possession (%) than under Nige!  What we have is a more methodical approach when we have possession, we just can’t control if we don’t have enough.

Just 4/15 league games we’ve had more than 50%.

And we didn’t win one of those four games that we “dominated” possession.

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…and we actually have less possession (%) than under Nige!  What we have is a more methodical approach when we have possession, we just can’t control if we don’t have enough.

Just 4/15 league games we’ve had more than 50%.

Who'd have thought that a team not built for possession football, wouldn't be very good at posession football hey? 

Methodical just sounds boring and too predictable to me which aligns with what my eyes see and that is that we fail to create much. 

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Who'd have thought that a team not built for possession football, wouldn't be very good at posession football hey? 

Methodical just sounds boring and too predictable to me which aligns with what my eyes see and that is that we fail to create much. 

You don’t have to dominate possession to win football matches anyway. Can’t remember which game it was but looking at the BBC stats the other night one team had 38% possession and 10 shots to the oppositions 4 and we’re winning. Good possession is what counts.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

And we didn’t win one of those four games that we “dominated” possession.

I didn’t even look that far!