Too Much Negativity

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I didn’t even look that far!

Proves a point about taking possession stats out of context. Tinnion wasn’t speaking for me if he reckons that equates to more enjoyment!!

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Proves a point about taking possession stats out of context. Tinnion wasn’t speaking for me if he reckons that equates to more enjoyment!!

I love the Analyst website.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/

some really simple stats that when combined give a really good indicator of team style and effectiveness.

this one is really simplistic, but if you were asked who most possession based teams were, or who the most direct were I don’t think too many people would look beyond the likes of Saints, Leicester and Hull at one end and Rotherham, Birmingham, Millwall at the other.  I’d say Ipswich and Leeds are “front foot, attacking” teams, and they are in that top-right quadrant.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Ironically under NP, 2 of the games we won we had more possession this season. 

Funny how it goes.

Numbers were similar too v Plymouth iirc?

The 2 with more, Millwall away and Rotherham away (think Rotherham had a player off injured after using all subs for some time towards the end).

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I love the Analyst website.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/

some really simple stats that when combined give a really good indicator of team style and effectiveness.

this one is really simplistic, but if you were asked who most possession based teams were, or who the most direct were I don’t think too many people would look beyond the likes of Saints, Leicester and Hull at one end and Rotherham, Birmingham, Millwall at the other.  I’d say Ipswich and Leeds are “front foot, attacking” teams, and they are in that top-right quadrant.

So slow and not very intricate then

[Galley is our king]

29 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

He is in charge of the 1st team whatever his job title is, he has to deliver results like anybody else who is in charge. His remit is to deliver a more exciting style of football AND get results, that’s what I mean by the whole package. If not it’s on to the next reset.

Oh and THIS SEASON or why would we change?

[Monkeh]

54 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The ultimate issue for me is that Manning has to deliver the whole package. On what I’ve seen so far there has been the odd game and spells in games where you can see what it might look like if he gets it right. First half v Forest for example when they couldn’t get the ball off us.

However it’s no good looking easy on the eye and going six weeks without winning a football match. Pearson was being pragmatic for a reason, that’s experience for you. A new manager is always going to have their own philosophy but it’s got to come with results. That’s the challenge over the coming months.

Tinnion is coming across as a bit desperate. He knows what he said and he also knows it ain’t being delivered right now. I said this earlier, the poor timing and rhetoric of the sacking is biting them on the arse as it stands.

The key thing Pearson did for me was lower fans expectations

Sadly for manning due to those incompetent leaders we have to suffer with, those expecting have gone through the roof,

It's why I'm more critical of the leaders then manning who does deserve some as well

[RollsRoyce]

The Prem for comparison. People will have different preferences, but I am most certainly looking at the top right quadrant. Liverpool/Spurs

That is possibly why I enjoyed watching Leeds on Friday.  Interesting. 

[Monkeh]

3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

The Prem for comparison. People will have different preferences, but I am most certainly looking at the top right quadrant. Liverpool/Spurs

That is possibly why I enjoyed watching Leeds on Friday.  Interesting. 

I like watch 3 teams in the prem, arsenal, Liverpool and Brighton

But I don't watch that often,

[Superjack]

56 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

He is in charge of the 1st team whatever his job title is, he has to deliver results like anybody else who is in charge. His remit is to deliver a more exciting style of football AND get results, that’s what I mean by the whole package. If not it’s on to the next reset.

Yes, sorry. On the pitch of course you are correct. 

A proper 'manager' does so much more though. 

You would think that a father and son that wish to escape to Guernsey and Bermuda would appreciate someone like that. 

But no, they don't want to be here but still want to control everything. 

Unless of course it's a certain ex player that is the sole true problem. 

It isn't though. It's all three of them.

[Numero Uno]

58 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

The Prem for comparison. People will have different preferences, but I am most certainly looking at the top right quadrant. Liverpool/Spurs

That is possibly why I enjoyed watching Leeds on Friday.  Interesting. 

EDIT - got that wrong!! The nearest club to us is Burnley, pretty much in an identical position on the graph. To people who think Manning is some kind of Pep clone these graphs show he is not even in the same postcode, style wise.

Edited February 5 by Numero Uno

[JP Hampton]

11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The squad is starting to have a bit of churn, hopefully not a recurring theme. Weimann should have been utilised through the middle more yes..I thought so in his first season even more when he made the great excellent yet unspotted by us early runs.

Twine- hopefully back in 2 weeks. His longevity here who knows.. if it is merely loan with no option or no realistic option, not least as he us Cup tied then it is pointless and takes us back towards territory of signing for the sake of it.

Bird is one I've been keen on for some time. Seems to be a technically and tactically sound youngish midfielder. With Championship experience, plus playing with Knight again.

Dire is unfortunately named and until we see him play for us we really don't know. Hard to make a judgment either way..on paper seems to be young, quick and can play alont the front however he is an unknown quantity.

Likewise Murphy who I doubt we'll see until next season, Stokes next season or later.

TGH, I'm reasonably happy we signed him permanently, are you? Good room for growth too age wise.

In respect of outgoings some risks IMO.

1) Conway and the lack of a new contract signed.

2) If say James, King and to a degree Williams (Weimann is already gone) leave at once that's a lot if experience and know-how. Wells is the only true senior pro? Naismith too I guess.

3) Pring. I'd say no dice as we don't need to sell and he has no Book Value as such being an Academyish Product but otoh a sale is pure profit...but if we don't need to sell then no IMO. TV money rising too will help all clubs but we could be or should be reasonably placed.

Lastly Manning. Is he back 3 or back 4, it is hard to keep track..some of the ins and outs should point to a back 4, a return to 4-3-3 but he seems determined to go wirh the current shape which may not fully suit us.

 I do agree there are things of interest with the new loans and signings and a general feeling of expectancy. What’s yet to be seen is whether they will in reality, fit into Manning’s plan and whether he can actually manage them, plus the remaining players, towards success.

  I do find it hard is seeing the potential offload of so much experience by the summer. It may work but I just wonder if it’s all too much change too quickly. As I’ve said before, there’sa lot of value in standing still and taking stock, before rushing in to change what’s actually working. 
 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

EDIT - got that wrong!! The nearest club to us is Burnley, pretty much in an identical position on the graph. To people who think Manning is some kind of Pep clone these graphs show he is not even in the same postcode, style wise.

They'll be along soon to say he would be a Pep clone if he had his own players. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Found an article which we all recall Tinnion in early November. Worth reading again.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/western-daily-press/20231101/282153590978082

If we are aligned at various levels, if a new man isn't changing the ethos them why the hell did we switch to a back 3 again.

Especially unsuited with Bell at wingback, McCrorie finding his way after lengthy illness, Naismith and Atkinson unavailable.

Yes we know they chatted shit but this is worse...they appear to be fundamentally clueless too.

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

[Lew-T]

5 hours ago, ray savino said:

Like it or lump it, that’s the choice we’ve got and always had. We can stick with following the team or not bother going down. Always been this way.

Frustrating as it is, I know that I shall probably see my way to buying a season card for next year... more through heart, habit and hope than logic!

What would soften the decision to buy my ticket and give me hope for next season?

1) A top 10 finish with signs that the new regime were turning the corner with more convincing attacking performances and more consistency. I think psychologically getting top 10 would be a clear progressive boost for the club and supporters. A platform to kick on.

2) A transition in style that does not rely on another ridiculous and over expensive churn of playing staff. Invest in a few/couple more quality key players to supplement a solid hard working squad (relatively expensive investment but not to put us up shit creek as before). Also we really do not have the cash for such a churn like before.

3) LM and staff to show more signs and vision to be be adaptable and pragmatic at times in developing his style to get results. Particularly to be more flexible and effective in changing tactics in game to bring results.

If LM and the club can achieve this, then I believe it would start to reunite the fan base and create a less toxic, more positive atmosphere. I don’t want to be able to turn round and carry on spouting “I’ve heard it all before”, just want some hope but most of all some entertainment and the signs of some real success.

Bonus:

To beat Forest and get a nice little run in the cup. Be brave v Man Utd and give them a game (Beat them obviously).

There. Not asking for too much is it. Or is it?

That’s another thing that annoys me with this club. Why is it when the season looks like it’s over, we then look like a good side getting results. City then announce season ticket prices, we jump on it with excitement for the following season.

Then it all comes crashing down. Repeat, repeat and repeat. 
 

We are that guy that always puts off going to the gym, there is always tomorrow sort of attitude…

So frustrating.

[Mr Popodopolous]

How does a big striker fit into this. Albeit big and quick can be potent tbh.

Sykes and Twine can work..mix of craft and energy.

Conway, Wells or big striker?

Fullback or wingbacks? Two similar yet different positions.

Quite a few loose ends to align the strategy. The recruitment itself seems okay, the wider planning seems very choppy.

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[cidercity1987]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I love the Analyst website.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/

some really simple stats that when combined give a really good indicator of team style and effectiveness.

this one is really simplistic, but if you were asked who most possession based teams were, or who the most direct were I don’t think too many people would look beyond the likes of Saints, Leicester and Hull at one end and Rotherham, Birmingham, Millwall at the other.  I’d say Ipswich and Leeds are “front foot, attacking” teams, and they are in that top-right quadrant.

 

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just sticking these two together for a laugh

Fuming

 

[bearded_red]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Absolutely fuming reading this.

[stephenkibby.]

2 hours ago, mason said:

Same year for me mate but took myself and a couple of mates, love my club but hate what they have done to it.

Must have been a good year. City 2/0 Leyton Orient. April 66 my first game.

Amazing that the crowd was 10,000 at the level we are playing now.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Absolutely fuming reading this.

You and me both.

Fuming, baffled and frankly worried that the strategy is heading towards a mess again.

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Absolutely fuming reading this.

Not a surprise though, is it?

Hard to believe a word Tinnion says.

[JP Hampton]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh dear, oh dear.

[JP Hampton]

2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

The key thing Pearson did for me was lower fans expectations

Sadly for manning due to those incompetent leaders we have to suffer with, those expecting have gone through the roof,

It's why I'm more critical of the leaders then manning who does deserve some as well

I think that’s really true a very pragmatic NP allowed us all to become realists, recognising what he had and the limits. I think that’s why we were able to see the bigger picture and settle our expectations.  

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Doesn’t scream Liam Manning does it, whether you’ve watched City or not.  It doesn’t even match Manning’s “I want to dominate possession”!

[BrizzleRed]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You and me both.

Fuming, baffled and frankly worried that the strategy is heading towards a mess again.

Goes to show, you can get an experienced head in to sort out deep rooted mis-management, but if it’s then handed over to a pair of idiots, it can turn to shit pretty quickly.

Hopefully they don’t wreck all the heavy lifting done with the finances too.

[Mr Popodopolous]

By enhance the base I ironically think NP was on course to do that.

Naismith and Scott in midfield in a 3, Some of those games also last third of the season we were on track to continue moving in that direction...IMO anyway.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Okay here's my take in respect of enhance a style of play just assuming that NP is sacked which he shouldn't have been.

You keep with the 4-3-3 and perhaps try to change the balance. Twine instead of Mehmeti leftish, perhaps in the fullness of time Bird as an extra ballplaying midfielder.

Bird knows how to pass plus is good positionally. Until then  Naismith I still think if fully fit would be in the 3 or should be atm.

Conway central absolutely. You tweak and enhance with in the framework- McCrorie-Sykes right side might be better offensively than Tanner-Sykes e.g.

Atkinson may carry out better than one of Dickie or Vyner albeit do either deserve to be dropped.

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

40 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You and me both.

Fuming, baffled and frankly worried that the strategy is heading towards a mess again.

Good find. I've been banging the drum since before Manning was appointed that he didn't fit with what we said we were looking for and how I had concerns that would create a mess by dismantling a decent squad. 

I had/have huge concern about this lack of alignment between what we want and what Manning brings but apparently we are now well coached. Well coached in what? Passing the ball sideways and backwards? 

Those that claimed we are now well coached are now no where to be seen. 

Once the dust had settled about Pearson leaving my thoughts soon turned to his replacement. I would have had Lampard because his style more aligned with us than Mannings and seemed a more natural progression on from Pearson. 

My issue has always been that the plan has been ripped up. I had hoped Manning would adapt however the QPR game showed us it was all about Manning ball from now on. 

What I don't know if Tinnion knew what he was getting with Manning or if Manning bullshitted his way through the interview and then came in and did his own thing. I would probably air on the side of JL and Tinnion not understanding that Manning plays a different style to what they were looking for. 

I don't believe Manning was their 1st choice either. 

If a Seagull From W-S-M who shits on people and steals their chips could see all of this then its bloody worrying that JL and BT couldn't see it even with all the data they would have had available to them. 

Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Good find. I've been banging the drum since before Manning was appointed that he didn't fit with what we said we were looking for and how that would create a mess by dismantling a decent squad. 

I had/have huge concern about this lack of alignment between what we want and what Manning brings but apparently we are now well coached. Well coached in what? Passing the ball sideways and backwards? 

Those that claimed we are now well coached are now no where to be seen. 

Once the dust had settled about Pearson leaving my thoughts soon turned to his replacement. I would have had Lampard because his style more aligned with us than Mannings and seemed a more natural progression on from Pearson. 

My issue has always been that the plan has been ripped up. I had hoped Manning would adapt however the QPR game showed us it was all about Manning ball from now on. 

What I don't know if Tinnion knew what he was getting with Manning or if Manning bullshitted his way through the interview and then came in and did his own thing. I would probably air on the side of JL and Tinnion not understanding that Manning plays a different style to what they were looking for. 

I don't believe Manning was their 1st choice either. 

I think he was, hence why they acted when they did.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think he was, hence why they acted when they did.

I heard that we were very interested in Mousinho but we recieved a hard no from him? 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

What really pisses me off is that JL and GM came out and said they accept that communication was under par and that they could and will do better in the future. And fair play for doing that. But the proof is in the pudding. In the following weeks the PR juggernaut was working over time. This made people think that communication had now improved. 

 

But at the time they admitted they had got communication wrong, they were sprouting all this crap about wanting a bead coach that would see us play attacking, pressing, aggressive, front foot football. 

 

They then appoint a Head coach that doesn't fit with what they say they wanted. I wouldn't even mind that, but still to this day they are trying to tell us that we are watching that brand of football when we are clearly not. 

I have big issues with that. The continued bullshit brings up past feelings about how they previously handled the situation. How they sent Bristol Sport employees on here to try and influence opinion. 

Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I heard that we were very interested in Mousinho but we recieved a hard no from him? 

 

In fairness I recall that.

Do you think they just looked at who were the top 2 head-coaches in Lg1?

Edited February 5 by Davefevs

[Frenchay Red]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I heard that we were very interested in Mousinho but we recieved a hard no from him? 

 

I thought Eustace had also said that he wasn't interested, by the Wednesday following Nige's departure.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I would have been interested if we were going down that route in Evatt.

He is somewhat on the up, Barrow and Bolton promotion and early success..

..Have read he isn't averse to a higher pressing game either. Which seems more aligned than what we are seeing at present.

Possession and pressing. Albeit he can like a back 3 which is a bit of a cross against.

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[Floatn Over]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What really pisses me off is that JL and GM came out and said they accept that communication was under par and that they could and will do better in the future. And fair play for doing that. But the proof is in the pudding. In the following weeks the PR juggernaut was working over time. This made people think that communication had now improved. 

 

But at the time they admitted they had got communication wrong, they were sprouting all this crap about wanting a bead coach that would see us play attacking, pressing, aggressive, front foot football. 

 

They then appoint a Head coach that doesn't fit with what they say they wanted. I wouldn't even mind that, but still to this day they are trying to tell us that we are watching that brand of football when we are clearly not. 

I have big issues with that. The continued bullshit brings up past feelings about how they previously handled the situation. How they sent Bristol Sport employees on here to try and influence opinion. 

Paragraph 3……hits nail on head.

[Galley is our king]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

******* unbelievable!

The chuckle brothers in action.

Absolutely bloody fuming. They can shove next seasons season ticket where the sun don't shine ...

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness I recall that.

Do you think they just looked at who were the top 2 head-coaches in Lg1?

Joking aside Dave I think that's basically what they did.  Who are the young head coaches currently doing well who would consider Bristol City a step up?  That was probably JL's thought process. I doubt they were tracking LM prior to the decision to fire Nigel or anything like that.

[Sir Geoff]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This should be pinned on page one.

[petehinton]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What really pisses me off is that JL and GM came out and said they accept that communication was under par and that they could and will do better in the future. And fair play for doing that. But the proof is in the pudding. In the following weeks the PR juggernaut was working over time. This made people think that communication had now improved. 

 

Remembering they said this, is an opportune time to point out that the club still haven’t officially announced that Olly Thomas has gone to Yeovil on loan, nor if Lewis Thomas is still here on not as his contract ended at the end of Jan

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Remembering they said this, is an opportune time to point out that the club still haven’t officially announced that Olly Thomas has gone to Yeovil on loan, nor if Lewis Thomas is still here on not as his contract ended at the end of Jan

It’s hopeless.

Seeing as Lewis Thomas played for the 21s last night & presumably isn’t doing so for free, it appears that he has, but as you say the communication is non league.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It’s hopeless.

Seeing as Lewis Thomas played for the 21s last night & presumably isn’t doing so for free, it appears that he has, but as you say the communication is non league.

I’ve tweeted the question

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve tweeted the question

Crap though, isn’t it?

It really isn’t difficult to tell us this stuff rather than wait for a supporter to ask.

[Davefevs]

Just now, GrahamC said:

Crap though, isn’t it?

It really isn’t difficult to tell us this stuff rather than wait for a supporter to ask.

Totally

[Silvio Dante]

16 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Crap though, isn’t it?

It really isn’t difficult to tell us this stuff rather than wait for a supporter to ask.

It also must play hell with @Robboreds brain when they continually dont announce stuff.

[Silvio Dante]

8 hours ago, GrahamC said:

It’s hopeless.

Seeing as Lewis Thomas played for the 21s last night & presumably isn’t doing so for free, it appears that he has, but as you say the communication is non league.

Signed an 18 month deal per story EP just put out.

[Monkeh]

9 hours ago, mason said:

Must be an xmas time thing with the Lansdowns, back in Jan 2013 they brought in SOD to replace our record breaking SC the choice  didnt last the year, history could well repeat as they seem to have learned nothing.

Sod replaced mcinnis 

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Signed an 18 month deal per story EP just put out.

Certainly didn’t see that coming.

Interesting article which also implies Bajic will look to move on this summer.

If that was to happen it makes a bit more sense to keep this guy as an experienced number 3, I guess.

[Better Red]

On 04/02/2024 at 15:07, Big Cheese said:

Forest,  Middlesbrough then Southampton,  I sadly think its more likely we will lose all 3, not win 2 on the bounce!

1 down, 2 to go….

[Better Red]

On 04/02/2024 at 15:07, Big Cheese said:

Forest,  Middlesbrough then Southampton,  I sadly think its more likely we will lose all 3, not win 2 on the bounce!

There is your 2 on the bounce

[Better Red]

On 03/02/2024 at 09:55, Leabrook said:

Why do you actively try to wind people up all the time if you are over 50 years old?

Like I said wisdom

[22A]

OK folks; addressing  negativity on here.

Take the last three results and for some it's the end of the world losing at home to QPR.

If City had lost 2-1 at Middlesbrough, beaten  Saints 3-1 and then won 1-0 v QPR, people would be declaring "We're on the right track. LM has got the club going in the right direction" etc.

[Graham76]

25 minutes ago, 22A said:

OK folks; addressing  negativity on here.

Take the last three results and for some it's the end of the world losing at home to QPR.

If City had lost 2-1 at Middlesbrough, beaten  Saints 3-1 and then won 1-0 v QPR, people would be declaring "We're on the right track. LM has got the club going in the right direction" etc.

It was the manner of the defeat against a team who are in the relegation zone. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

It was the manner of the defeat against a team who are in the relegation zone. 

With a prior away record of 4-3-9.

Albeit weirdly WhoScored did predict a 1-0 QPR win.

Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous

[mozo]

I look forward to the pendulum swinging back to outrageous positivity when we beat Wednesday 

[Malago]

13 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

It was the manner of the defeat against a team who are in the relegation zone. 

It wasn’t the first time, and won’t be the last, that we’ve played poorly and lost.  The over reaction on here has been boarding on hysterical, and I don’t mean hysterical ha ha.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, mozo said:

I look forward to the pendulum swinging back to outrageous positivity when we beat Wednesday 

Nah, 3 win run against Cardiff, Swansea and Ipswich.  You just know it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Malago said:

It wasn’t the first time, and won’t be the last, that we’ve played poorly and lost.  The over reaction on here has been boarding on hysterical, and I don’t mean hysterical ha ha.

Anger, frustration.

Sense of a needless change meant to push us on, now the season over.

Etc.

I don't think it is the loss in isolation but unrest and disquiet is perhaps growing or still there, simmering.

[W-S-M Seagull]

37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Anger, frustration.

Sense of a needless change meant to push us on, now the season over.

Etc.

I don't think it is the loss in isolation but unrest and disquiet is perhaps growing or still there, simmering.

Yep. 

It's not the loss in isolation. Its that its the same old thing, failure to beat a poor team and instead losing. 

This season was meant to be the sesson we pushed on. Instead we are regressing. We finished last season 10 points off the play offs and we're now 10 points off in February. 

It seems like a wasted season. Wasted opportunity. 

We're just going to go round and round in circles rather than taking that step forward that most of us expected. 

Previously I was content to watch the crap served up knowing the situation we was in with ffp, the culture etc. There was always a light at the end of the tunnel. You could see what the club were doing. 

But now we have a decent squad. We have a very good culture, I don't care what anyone says, we should be doing better than what we are doing and thats why I now have no patience. I can't see any grand plan or any progress. We've dropped 5 points against QPR this season. That's incredibly poor. 

[Alessandro]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yep. 

It's not the loss in isolation. Its that its the same old thing, failure to beat a poor team and instead losing. 

This season was meant to be the sesson we pushed on. Instead we are regressing. We finished last season 10 points off the play offs and we're now 10 points off in February. 

It seems like a wasted season. Wasted opportunity. 

We're just going to go round and round in circles rather than taking that step forward that most of us expected. 

Previously I was content to watch the crap served up knowing the situation we was in with ffp, the culture etc. There was always a light at the end of the tunnel. You could see what the club were doing. 

But now we have a decent squad. We have a very good culture, I don't care what anyone says, we should be doing better than what we are doing and thats why I now have no patience. I can't see any grand plan or any progress. We've dropped 5 points against QPR this season. That's incredibly poor. 

It’s interesting for me as I never really expected top 6 this season under NP - especially after selling Scott - unless the chequebook suddenly opened in Jan (which it didn’t) - so my eyes were always on next season - where I felt NP could start to really show the fruits of his foundations and be judged fairly on results.

Why am I frustrated/concerned/now a little negative about next season:

1) Apart from the club taking us for fools talking about top 6.

2) I have my concerns that appointing Manning just isn’t that continuity appointment from NP. Is that a problem? Well maybe..:

My question - is his style of football (desirable as it may be) realistic for us as a club, with our budget? Is his style of football too expensive for us? 

If so, can he adapt to find a way to “successfully” work with the resources he actually has?

Successful being a ‘top 6 challenge’, not us playing some nice football a couple of a times a month amongst many frustrating losses. Every mid table championship team can do that.

So it feels like we could be heading for another re-build and one we might not be able to afford - if it’s not working this time next year, what then? Another re-build again? And so on so on. The Lansdown Loop.

Ultimately if you like the guy you’ll be patient, if not you won’t. We all do it, we all have a personal hunches on managers. Feels to me like nice guy, good coach, Wrong time wrong club. How long will the majority of fans give Manning - Time will tell. 
 

As always I’ll sign off with hope I’m wrong.

Edited February 22 by Alessandro

[Davefevs]

52 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

It’s interesting for me as I never really expected top 6 this season under NP - especially after selling Scott - unless the chequebook suddenly opened in Jan (which it didn’t) - so my eyes were always on next season - where I felt NP could start to really show the fruits of his foundations and be judged fairly on results.

Why am I frustrated/concerned/now a little negative about next season:

1) Apart from the club taking us for fools talking about top 6.

2) I have my concerns that appointing Manning just isn’t that continuity appointment from NP. Is that a problem? Well maybe..:

My question - is his style of football (desirable as it may be) realistic for us as a club, with our budget? Is his style of football too expensive for us? 

If so, can he adapt to find a way to “successfully” work with the resources he actually has?

Successful being a ‘top 6 challenge’, not us playing some nice football a couple of a times a month amongst many frustrating losses. Every mid table championship team can do that.

So it feels like we could be heading for another re-build and one we might not be able to afford - if it’s not working this time next year, what then? Another re-build again? And so on so on. The Lansdown Loop.

Ultimately if you like the guy you’ll be patient, if not you won’t. We all do it, we all have a personal hunches on managers. Feels to me like nice guy, good coach, Wrong time wrong club. How long will the majority of fans give Manning - Time will tell. 
 

As always I’ll sign off with hope I’m wrong.

The bit in bold is the general “thrust” of the WhatsApp debate me and @Harry keep coming back to.

Can we recruit the quality we need to be the “difference” within the budget.

Harry will rightly say, we could’ve had Grimes for £small, Sheaf before he went to Coventry, etc, etc.  So, yes we can….but it comes down to execution.

Recruitment was improving, Jan looks like it hasn’t taken a step backwards, but we are at the whim of the success of Recruitment, especially as we probably have a fallow period of producing the next Academy star.

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Can we recruit the quality we need to be the “difference” within the budget.

Which is the million dollar question really. 

I asked earlier where this idea of a "rebuild" has come from. I don't think we need a rebuild. I think, as this question alludes to, it's about finding a way to add the necessary gloss to an already solid squad, and doing that within our budget.

It's the old adage of Maguire's. We need resource, opportunity, and then execution. The first is there, the second is there. The third is the enigma.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Which is the million dollar question really. 

I asked earlier where this idea of a "rebuild" has come from. I don't think we need a rebuild. I think, as this question alludes to, it's about finding a way to add the necessary gloss to an already solid squad, and doing that within our budget.

It's the old adage of Maguire's. We need resource, opportunity, and then execution. The first is there, the second is there. The third is the enigma.

I agree.

These aren’t a group of footballers who’ve been brought up on a staple diet of long-ball / direct football, nor were they playing that under Nige either, so we have capable players already here, imho.  It’s up to Manning to find the best way to win games, which might not be pure-Manning-ball.

[W-S-M Seagull]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree.

These aren’t a group of footballers who’ve been brought up on a staple diet of long-ball / direct football, nor were they playing that under Nige either, so we have capable players already here, imho.  It’s up to Manning to find the best way to win games, which might not be pure-Manning-ball.

This is the thing I keep coming back to. 

Why can't Manning get the best out of this squad that is a decent squad? Other managers have taken over other teams before and have made them out perform their ability in a short space of time, so why can't Manning do that? 

We're 18 games in with Manning and there is a nagging concern that there is no plan b. 

The QPR game was an interesting one. I think Manning puts far too much emphasis on tactics and not enough on motivational stuff. I suspect that probably has something to do with his lack of emotions and him constantly saying he wants to remove emotions from the players. 

We've shown when we want it we can match anyone. The problem is it felt like QPR wanted it more than us. We can all look at the tactics til were blue in the face but the reality is we just didn't really want it against QPR. I'm not sure if Manning has that motivational factor in his skillset based on his beliefs about emotions. 

I think his inability to harness emotions is probably going to be his downfall here. 

Even Man City, the best coached team in the world have a manager who is very emotional. It's why City always go on these incredible runs in the second half of the season. Being part of the CFG group previously. You'd have thought Manning may have learned that it's not all about tactics. 

Edited February 22 by W-S-M Seagull

[Dr Balls]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree.

These aren’t a group of footballers who’ve been brought up on a staple diet of long-ball / direct football, nor were they playing that under Nige either, so we have capable players already here, imho.  It’s up to Manning to find the best way to win games, which might not be pure-Manning-ball.

Agree and have also suggested the same thing. Can Manning find an approach that suits the players and fits his preferred way of playing? In essence, the style developed under Pearson was based on what he had already and what we could afford. My concern has always been that successful possession-based football requires the best and therefore the most expensive players, which brings us back to why are 3 of the top 4 teams in the Championship playing that way? Because they are the relegated clubs with higher paid players and parachute payments. Trying to beat them at their own game, so to speak, is not very likely and actually our approach against Southampton is a better way to play these teams. I would rather we work out how to beat teams that “park the bus” at Ashton Gate. And that really means more creativity in midfield to play balls through the defence, rather than what your article for the Bristol Post showed, which is a lot of passing round a u-shaped back 4 with little or no intent to go forward. The times we do look more dangerous is when one of the centre backs brings the ball out past the opposition attacker(s) and even their midfield. Suddenly we have options and it causes difficulties for the opposition defence as they are overloaded. It doesn’t have to be Dickie every time, (although I would trust him much more than Vyner, if only because Zak’s passing in tight spaces is so poor) but we need players who are braver on the ball to drive forward and take on the opposition. That’s where we really miss Alex Scott.

[Dr Balls]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is the thing I keep coming back to. 

Why can't Manning get the best out of this squad that is a decent squad? Other managers have taken over other teams before and have made them out perform their ability in a short space of time, so why can't Manning do that? 

We're 18 games in with Manning and there is a nagging concern that there is no plan b. 

The QPR game was an interesting one. I think Manning puts far too much emphasis on tactics and not enough on motivational stuff. 

We've shown when we want it we can match anyone. The problem is it felt like QPR wanted it more than us. We can all look at the tactics til were blue in the face but the reality is we just didn't really want it against QPR. I'm not sure if Manning has that motivational factor in his skillset. 

It’s an interesting one, because I would say that the absolute opposite to Manning is our favourite pantomime villain, Warnock. Colin’s tactics are rarely that sophisticated but boy can he motivate a team and that’s what has really brought him repeated success. And the reality is that for all that Guardiola and Klopp might be great tacticians, a lot of their success is down to motivation. You can’t have one without the other.

[downendcity]

Negativity and pessimism.

We're Bristolians, they are in our DNA!

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

It’s an interesting one, because I would say that the absolute opposite to Manning is our favourite pantomime villain, Warnock. Colin’s tactics are rarely that sophisticated but boy can he motivate a team and that’s what has really brought him repeated success. And the reality is that for all that Guardiola and Klopp might be great tacticians, a lot of their success is down to motivation. You can’t have one without the other.

As you were typing this I was editing my post adding on about how Pep uses emotions. 

Totally agree with you about Warnock. I'm not suggesting we should have gone for Warnock but I’ll put my neck on the line and say if he would have taken over from Pearson, we'd not be talking about our season being finished in February. 

It's a long hard brutal season in the Championship. The weather up Failand isn't kind. As Manning has found out Nov-Feb is relentless. You need to be able to motivate your players day in, day out and I'm just not sure Manning has that in his locker. In his interview yesterday one thing that popped into my head whilst watching it was, he seems to prioritise players performing well in training and I think as a coach that's ingrained in him. 

I think Manning is a fantastic coach and it's clear that's what he enjoys the most. I think it's matchdays he struggles with. It's out of his comfort zone. Too many variables, too many emotions and its not a sterilised environment like the training ground is. 

With Klopp leaving at the end of the season and all the emotions that go with that, he is certainly trying to harness those emotions to try and win the premier league. If they do win the premier league, it won't be down to tactics alone, it will be a combination of tactics and emotions/motivation. 

City are going for 4 in a row this season. I don't think it's ever been done before in the PL? Everyone knows it's not the first premier league title that's the hardest, it's the 2nd and 3rd in a row that's the hardest because of motivation levels. Pep has that fantastic ability to keep his players motivated and hungry. Sir Alex had it too. This is what makes them the greatest. 

I don't think any of us can sit here and say that Sir Alex was a great tactician. Of course he was decent at it but his strengths were all about team spirit, motivation and all that over an extraordinary amount of time. 

I think Manning would probably have done well in his career to have been an assistant to someone who had qualities that he doesn't have. 

[RedRock]

Seems to me that we’re transitioning from a ‘traditional’ build a squad that has strength through unity with the sum bigger than parts approach with a direct, pragmatic style of play (Pearson), to a ‘modern’ possession/tactically/technically based, robotic approach (Manning). 

Question is which style is a non-parachute Club such as Bristol City most likely to succeed with? 

My view is that you need higher quality players to make a success of the possession approach. 

Looking at last Season, Burnley possession-based had parachute payments and more quality players, Luton and Sheff Utd did not have parachute payments and played a more direct game. 

Interesting that Tins and Jon, I think, looked at Ipswich at AG and thought we could go down the possession-based route without having the luxury of parachute payments. 

My gut instinct - partly because I think our ‘hit’ rate on quality first team signings is so poor - Cornick and Annis ffs. - is we’d be best employing a Pearson-style approach. However, I’m not closed to thinking the Manning-style can succeed. It was a massive change in approach, a complete reset and will take time and a lot fewer **** ups on transfers. So, Tins and Manning over to you. 
 

Going for yet another ‘reset’ does feed the frustration when things don’t go right. So I understand the anger when we put in a limp-wristed performance like that witnessed against QPR. 

[SydneyCity]

It looks like next season really will be one of “no excuses”.

- The club will be better placed for FFP.

- The new structure will be wedded in.

- Manning will have had a pre-season.

- His players will have been recruited.

- O’Neils will have had a suitable production cycle.

- The club shop have a local supplier who can deliver to demand.

That’s a lot of pressure and, to be honest, I’m pretty pessimistic about it all. Hopefully I’m wrong but, good or bad, it does feel like it’s all coming to a head.

[FNQ]

55 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I asked earlier where this idea of a "rebuild" has come from. I don't think we need a rebuild. I think, as this question alludes to, it's about finding a way to add the necessary gloss to an already solid squad, and doing that within our budget.

I thought LM was on to it when he brought in Scott Twine on loan… then he inexplicably left him on the bench vs QPR, which assuming he was fit enough to get changed then he would have been fit enough to at least play a part being totally ridiculous.

Hull seem to have cracked it though, Carvalho and Zahoury both brought in on loan in January to supplement their existing squad, which is really no better than our squad, and both scoring in the win at the Dell on Tuesday with Russel Martin even saying that they were beaten by the better side, he wasn’t that gracious versus us.

If we want to be serious about challenging at the top end of the division then we need to in fact get serious.