Sound of the city

[exAtyeoMax]

8 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

I rather think, and this is my view, that they actually believed what they were saying. Whilst that then became an extra burden for Manning, I am still of the opinion that Marshall, Tinnion and Jon L , possibly SL too, thought that a young coach would , with new ideas, more training, get a better performance from our squad. They were being honest. The trouble is, they were being superficial and making decisions without any of the 3/4 of them having anything but a fanciful idea about such matters . I almost wish they were saying blatant lies, maybe they did not highlight Nigel's health, but the rest of it,  for me, they really thought Manning was going to be the surprise package, 30 games to sneak into the play offs, Luton style, or Cooper at Forest. It was a reckless gamble, made out of hope rather than policy, disregarding all of the nuances of change that had occurred the previous years. 

They were not lying or being dishonest, just incompetent. 

I think that's even more worrying. As JP said last night, they have an ideal but no ******* idea of how to accomplish it.  

I had a boss like that, moan and shout about someone not doing their job but when told exactly why they couldn't do it, said "I'm not interested in the nuts and bolts of it" idiot. You can't argue with idiots.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I think that's even more worrying. As JP said last night, they have an ideal but no ******* idea of how to accomplish it.  

I had a boss like that, moan and shout about someone not doing their job but when told exactly why they couldn't do it, said "I'm not interested in the nuts and bolts of it" idiot. You can't argue with idiots.

That is exactly what I’ve been saying for ages.  They’ve seem an “outcome” (Luton, Brentford, Brighton, Coventry, Ipswich, who have I missed), but no idea firstly how those clubs achieved it, nor secondly how they might replicate or thirdly how they might achieve it in their own way.

”get promotion with a young head-coach” is all they have…honestly!

[exAtyeoMax]

Just now, Davefevs said:

That is exactly what I’ve been saying for ages.  They’ve seem an “outcome” (Luton, Brentford, Brighton, Coventry, Ipswich, who have I missed), but no idea firstly how those clubs achieved it, nor secondly how they might replicate or thirdly how they might achieve it in their own way.

”get promotion with a young head-coach” is all they have…honestly!

I think GOs mentioned the Luton love in last night. WTF

[Merrick's Marvels]

32 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

None of their crap was necessary. Why not just say we've reached the end of the line with Nige and we feel that the club wants to explore other avenues…blah blah blah. 'Kin' idiots 

Incredible isn't it. 

Even if they'd said to him privately at some point this season "look, we want to go in a different direction next summer so won't be renewing your contract but thanks for the great job you've done", I reckon Nige (and staff) has enough integrity to keep doing his very best until the end of the season, take it on the chin and move on. No tantrums, hissy fits, resignations.

Just be honest and straightforward with him.

He'd have wanted to do the best job possible right to the very end, I reckon - for his players and for our club. That's the sort of bloke he is, I reckon.

The people running our club really didn't deserve him. 

And the sooner they're gone the better.  All of them.  

Edited March 19 by Merrick's Marvels

[Gert Mare]

3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

You are right. Absolutely right. 

Manning is a symptom, his football ideals are not what the club needed anyway, but there is a void of competence at the top, we have nobody at the club who knows what is required to create a successful team/club. These people fired, wholesale, the people we did have at the club who knew what that looked like. Instead of evolving and growing, they have taken the club backwards. Maybe they should look at the consistent presence of Tinnion (the recruitment team)  Jon L and Marshall, because those 3 need changing if any new manager or coach is to ever have any chance of success at this club. If the club were to be taken over, all 3 would be gone in an instant. Maybe that is what is going on, job preservation for the boys. 

It’s a culture of blame, paranoia and mistrust.

It appears like there are a close knit band of ‘informants’ with their own ‘self preservation/interest’ agendas, happy to scapegoat others to save their own skins.

This is again, very bad. Successful businesses are built on strong leadership, delegation of responsibility, collaboration and trust, not fear, mistrust and micromanagement.

[RollsRoyce]

2 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

It’s a culture of blame, paranoia and mistrust.

It appears like there are a close knit band of ‘informants’ with their own ‘self preservation/interest’ agendas, happy to scapegoat others to save their own skins.

This is again, very bad. Successful businesses are built on strong leadership, delegation of responsibility, collaboration and trust, not fear, mistrust and micromanagement.

This is why SL has to either sell the club, or make a radical change to his behaviour, withdraw his son, and his own interference and employ someone to build him a Premier league club.  But he owns it and has shown that ultimately, he uses it as a personal project, dare I say toy. 2 decades of playing fantasy football owner. He is arriving at the point where that is no longer sustainable. Sell it or put it in the hands of people with ability. For such a successful man, I am still astounded he has never really wanted to get to the Prem. If he did, he would have long ago stepped back and stopped the nepotism and jobs for Jon's mates. 

I would start with a ceo and a complete change to the recruitment team. The coach or manager will be easy after that. 

[Gert Mare]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is exactly what I’ve been saying for ages.  They’ve seem an “outcome” (Luton, Brentford, Brighton, Coventry, Ipswich, who have I missed), but no idea firstly how those clubs achieved it, nor secondly how they might replicate or thirdly how they might achieve it in their own way.

”get promotion with a young head-coach” is all they have…honestly!

It certainly looks that way doesn’t it Dave?

@RollsRoyce Aligns with what you have said ins so much as they genuinely believe that they know what is best, but also highlights any insight or deep dive research.

Makes me think back to how ‘rigorous’ our ‘rigorous process’ has been in the past and seemingly repeated most recently with the ‘due diligence’ performed on Liam Manning prior to his appointment.

[Gert Mare]

3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

This is why SL has to either sell the club, or make a radical change to his behaviour, withdraw his son, and his own interference and employ someone to build him a Premier league club.  But he owns it and has shown that ultimately, he uses it as a personal project, dare I say toy. 2 decades of playing fantasy football owner. He is arriving at the point where that is no longer sustainable. Sell it or put it in the hands of people with ability. For such a successful man, I am still astounded he has never really wanted to get to the Prem. If he did, he would have long ago stepped back and stopped the nepotism and jobs for Jon's mates. 

I would start with a ceo and a complete change to the recruitment team. The coach or manager will be easy after that. 

I agree.

The thing is I worry about their ability to sell to the right people based on their own track record of ‘rigorous process’ and ‘due diligence’!

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

It certainly looks that way doesn’t it Dave?

@RollsRoyce Aligns with what you have said ins so much as they genuinely believe that they know what is best, but also highlights any insight or deep dive research.

Makes me think back to how ‘rigorous’ our ‘rigorous process’ has been in the past and seemingly repeated most recently with the ‘due diligence’ performed on Liam Manning prior to his appointment.

They probably found out he was a friend of McKenna, so he must be good.

[fisherrich]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We could win the next 8 games and still I'll be of the opinion that Manning needs to go. 

For me there are things lacking in his management such as being unable to react or be pro active in game. He's not suddenly going to learn these things. 

Once you've lost the fanbase which he has then we all know its pretty impossible to recover from that. 

I don't know if he's lost the dressing room but there are cracks appearing. 

Ideally the club would get rid now. Get themselves out there and own up to their mistakes and take accountability and then we can all move on. 

We then have a little bit of time to make sure we make the correct appointment whilst giving him time to assess the squad in the remaining games so that he can make decisions on contracts etc and then plan for the summer. 

But what we'll do in my opinion is to carry on like this and then get rid at the end of the season where everything goes into a summer shutdown, sotc, podcasts etc and they won't have to come face to face with fans at games. 

When IG was talking about season ticket renewals he was trying to frame it as "well we once lost 3k and replaced them with 3k others so that will happen again" which is complete bullshit. In all my time of supporting this club I have never seen so many people say they will not renew. This isn't people that have only had a season ticket for a year or two. This is people that have had one for 20, 30 years etc. That's alarming. 

The only way this changes is if the club are pro active and make the change and to get fans excited about next season with the right appointment. 

What makes you so sure the Lansdowns will make the correct appointment. I have zero confidence in them.

[Gert Mare]

4 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

They probably found out he was a friend of McKenna, so he must be good.

I’m laughing, but, worryingly, it could well be true!!!!

Edited March 19 by Gert Mare

[wayne allisons tongues]

Haven’t been to Ashton Gate since NP was sacked, will not give the club my money anymore. 
 

Live in Manchester and spend my time helping/working for a non league side, the ex pros who watch and play at this level cannot believe we got rid of NP and PA. They all mention how much of a car crash our club is now and how we are now a running joke at how bad we are run. 
 

When NP and PA were there we were held in high regard and according to these ex pros players will not be signing for us in the summer. This is due to the regard we are now seen as a club and they all believe we are heading one way unless we have a big clear out top to bottom.

Edited March 19 by wayne allisons tongues

[fisherrich]

11 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Haven’t been to Ashton Gate since NP was sacked, will not give the club my money anymore. 
 

Live in Manchester and spend my time helping/working for a non league side, the ex pros who watch and play at this level cannot believe we got rid of NP and PA. They all mention how much of a car crash our club is now and how we are now a running joke at how bad we are run. 
 

When NP and PA were there we were held in high regard and according to these ex pros players will not be signing for us in the summer. This is due to the regard we are now seen as a club and they all believe we are heading one way unless we have a big clear out top to bottom.

Car crash of a football club. Just look at the mess this club is in. Also stopped going after Nige P sacked. Not going back until Lansdowns are out of our club. Been down AG 50+ years supporting the team. Really pissed off with it TBH.

Edited March 19 by fisherrich

[Mr Popodopolous]

44 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

What makes you so sure the Lansdowns will make the correct appointment. I have zero confidence in them.

I tend to agree but I would say that last time it was like this, Holden out NP in so you just never know..

Of course we ran aground and messed up horribly grim May or Summer 2023 to present really. I'd love to see him and his team reinstated, Tinnion either shunted back to youth or out the door, Jon Lansdown well away from the levers of power, a proper CEO appointed and Rawcliffe and Marshall baxk to more appropriate roles.

If we can't get Fleming back, try for Shakespeare and Walsh as a sweetener.

It won't happen of course but that would be something like my ideal blueprint..

[chinapig]

47 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

I’m laughing, but, worryingly, it could well be true!!!!

Likewise. I wouldn't entirely rule it out either given the limited capabilities of the people making the decisions.

Allegedly progressive young coaches are fashionable so it wouldn't surprise me if it amounted to little more than looking at the likes of McKenna and Edwards and assuming Manning would be as good as a matter of course.

That's selection bias as it ignores any young coaches who haven't been a success.

Due diligence? What's that?

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Likewise. I wouldn't entirely rule it out either given the limited capabilities of the people making the decisions.

Allegedly progressive young coaches are fashionable so it wouldn't surprise me if it amounted to little more than looking at the likes of McKenna and Edwards and assuming Manning would be as good as a matter of course.

That's selection bias as it ignores any young coaches who haven't been a success.

Due diligence? What's that?

I sssume you mean Rob Edwards not Joe Edwards?

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I sssume you mean Rob Edwards not Joe Edwards?

Yes, quite!

[red panda]

39 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

Car crash of a football club. Just look at the mess this club is in. Also stopped going after Nige P sacked. Not going back until Lansdowns are out of our club. Been down AG 50+ years supporting the team. Really pissed off with it TBH.

Are we in administration or liquidation?  Do players and club staff still receive their wages?  Do we owe a huge amount to HMRC?  Are we paying millions in interest to external lenders?  Have we been relegated to the third tier, fourth tier or out of the league altogether?  Do our owners have an appalling human rights record that we try not to mention?  Are we on our eleventh manager in the last four years?  Are we facing one or more points deductions?  Is our ground unfinished or falling apart?  Do we have an owner who brazenly ignores FFP regulations then blames everyone else when sanctioned?  Did we build a new ground which we never filled and then had to leave?  Do we have Tony Pulis or Joey Barton as manager ?

After initially supporting Manning, I now think he ought to be sacked.  It just didn't work.  Things could certainly be better.  But they could also be a hell of a lot worse!

[Numero Uno]

58 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

What makes you so sure the Lansdowns will make the correct appointment. I have zero confidence in them.

Bar a few disenchanted and impatient fans who are just as culpable as the Owner and Board imo as it was their bleating that gave the hierarchy the green light to fire him, they did get an appointment right. A manager who the majority were able to live with despite an uninspiring style because he explained what he was doing and what the craic was to the fans. The problem was it was uncomfortable for the ego’s for the peasants to have such an understanding.

They couldn’t have a situation where fans understood so Nige had to go. Power and control had been transferred and that was never acceptable to them. Let’s be fair, had they given it to Curtis for the rest of the season and told Nige to go home on full pay and make a full recovery with a view to negotiating a contract at the end of the season the extra “ten points” that Sid spoke of would probably have been banked THIS SEASON………oh, they would also have saved a shit load of cash too!! Not to mention we could have been in the market for players who would be creased up laughing if their agent said Liam is on the phone.

[W-S-M Seagull]

42 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I tend to agree but I would say that last time it was like this, Holden out NP in so you just never know..

Of course we ran aground and messed up horribly grim May or Summer 2023 to present really. I'd love to see him and his team reinstated, Tinnion either shunted back to youth or out the door, Jon Lansdown well away from the levers of power, a proper CEO appointed and Rawcliffe and Marshall baxk to more appropriate roles.

If we can't get Fleming back, try for Shakespeare and Walsh as a sweetener.

It won't happen of course but that would be something like my ideal blueprint..

In a perfect world you'd get Pearson to come back in and give him carte blanche to bring in whoever was needed to work below and above him. 

If you asked Nigel Pearson to appoint us a Technical Director then I'd have the greatest belief that he would make a fantastic appointment. 

It doesn't even need to be Pearson, but someone who has the ability to do that. 

The board need to recognise that when it comes to footballing matters, they are clueless. We won't ever progress whilst we have that lack of football experience.

Some pride needs to be swallowed and allow experienced people to sort this bloody mess out. 

I'm quite confident to say that with how this club is being run, if changes are not made from top to bottom, we will be relegated. We've seen it so many times at other clubs. 

 

Edited March 19 by W-S-M Seagull

[Numero Uno]

18 minutes ago, red panda said:

Are we in administration or liquidation?  Do players and club staff still receive their wages?  Do we owe a huge amount to HMRC?  Are we paying millions in interest to external lenders?  Have we been relegated to the third tier, fourth tier or out of the league altogether?  Do our owners have an appalling human rights record that we try not to mention?  Are we on our eleventh manager in the last four years?  Are we facing one or more points deductions?  Is our ground unfinished or falling apart?  Do we have an owner who brazenly ignores FFP regulations then blames everyone else when sanctioned?  Did we build a new ground which we never filled and then had to leave?  Do we have Tony Pulis or Joey Barton as manager ?

After initially supporting Manning, I now think he ought to be sacked.  It just didn't work.  Things could certainly be better.  But they could also be a hell of a lot worse!

We aren't on the same side of the debate but what you say above makes complete sense tbh. However, the frustration comes when a manager is sacked and the Board, having every opportunity to coherently explain themselves end up making a complete horlicks of it and in many statements are resorting to downright untruths that, as I've said previously, take five minutes to disprove on the internet (e.g. McKenna's record which was an incredibly stupid thing to say without being 100% sure of the facts). Some untruths aren't so easy to prove but now seem to be surfacing via in the know local journalists like James Piercy. Fans are not daft and information is very easy to acquire in this day and age (especially with all the loose lips at the HPC), for example this forum knew about Twine's injury DAYS before the club informed us.

We also have a situation where a member of the hierarchy appears to be "feeding" propaganda to someone they perceive to be an influential voice of the fans, someone who has no filter and cannot keep their mouth shut. We also had the bizarre situation on here where "this red" and "that red" were signing up as new members trying to push an agenda and haven't been seen since Boxing Day with a minor amount of detective work showing in some cases that their origination comes from a certain sporting empire in the region.

It's the behaviours (yes, I use that term deliberately) around their decision making that causes some to perhaps go over the top and say things like the "club is a car crash". You explained eloquently enough that in real terms it isn't really that but the decision makers (I am not talking Steve now) only have themselves to blame and have demonstrated an uncomfortable amount of unprofessionalism and lack of qualifications to be in post (imo of course).

[Monkeh]

38 minutes ago, red panda said:

Are we in administration or liquidation?  Do players and club staff still receive their wages?  Do we owe a huge amount to HMRC?  Are we paying millions in interest to external lenders?  Have we been relegated to the third tier, fourth tier or out of the league altogether?  Do our owners have an appalling human rights record that we try not to mention?  Are we on our eleventh manager in the last four years?  Are we facing one or more points deductions?  Is our ground unfinished or falling apart?  Do we have an owner who brazenly ignores FFP regulations then blames everyone else when sanctioned?  Did we build a new ground which we never filled and then had to leave?  Do we have Tony Pulis or Joey Barton as manager ?

After initially supporting Manning, I now think he ought to be sacked.  It just didn't work.  Things could certainly be better.  But they could also be a hell of a lot worse!

We are still in a mess, it's just a different kind to those you mentioned,

[1960maaan]

33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I tend to agree but I would say that last time it was like this, Holden out NP in so you just never know..

Of course we ran aground and messed up horribly grim May or Summer 2023 to present really. I'd love to see him and his team reinstated, Tinnion either shunted back to youth or out the door, Jon Lansdown well away from the levers of power, a proper CEO appointed and Rawcliffe and Marshall baxk to more appropriate roles.

If we can't get Fleming back, try for Shakespeare and Walsh as a sweetener.

It won't happen of course but that would be something like my ideal blueprint..

That's all we really have to hold onto , sadly .

I don't agree with all the "has no ambition " posts , I think it's more that being a dictatorship that doesn't seem to like to take advice you can never have a balanced view. Jon has ideas , but massively limited it football as is Dad . Plus they just haven't learnt from experience.

Then all of a sudden...
Steve L steps away , we appoint an experienced Manager , we appoint a real CEO and everything starts to look like a real Club going in the right direction. 

Pearson may have been outspoken , but if he's treated fairly and honestly he wouldn't have felt the need to drop things into the Pressers.  So we lose a Manager and 2 CEO's , TBF one wasn't down to the Club. 

In 5 months we have gone from the best set up for years, to being a mess with no obvious leadership worthy of the name.

I hope your thinking is right , Steve may just see the difference in direction 6 months ago , to now . 

Nige isn't coming back , ever.
Looking from either side it just wont work and that means any of his staff or friends would be doubtful.  I hope they go down a similar route though , get an experienced man in . Get the support HE wants . Get a real experienced CEO. in ASAP . Get a real Chairman in , call it an advisor , call it anything but take the keys away from Jon. Even if it has to be in way that doesn't bruise his ego. 

They have heard/seen/felt the feedback from the sacking or the kits or the badges , they know they have done a great job in pissing off the fans .  So maybe , just maybe they will make the right appointment again. They do stumble onto the right man every now and again. Even if they tend to balls it up after a short while. 

 

 

[BCFCGav]

So Ian Gay’s source revealed ‘Manning has 8 games to save his job’. I’ve been racking my brains on what that means. Surely if the board or ownership are putting you on your last warning - you’re done regardless. It’s just a matter of waiting for the result(s) that seal your fate. Unless these last 8 games are SO good in results and/or performance that he buys himself back some wriggle room? 
 

What a bloody shambles. Fingers crossed we end the season well and can finally see some realignment within the club and fanbase. Or better still, City release a statement that the Lansdown’s have agreed to a sale.

[fisherrich]

1 hour ago, red panda said:

Are we in administration or liquidation?  Do players and club staff still receive their wages?  Do we owe a huge amount to HMRC?  Are we paying millions in interest to external lenders?  Have we been relegated to the third tier, fourth tier or out of the league altogether?  Do our owners have an appalling human rights record that we try not to mention?  Are we on our eleventh manager in the last four years?  Are we facing one or more points deductions?  Is our ground unfinished or falling apart?  Do we have an owner who brazenly ignores FFP regulations then blames everyone else when sanctioned?  Did we build a new ground which we never filled and then had to leave?  Do we have Tony Pulis or Joey Barton as manager ?

After initially supporting Manning, I now think he ought to be sacked.  It just didn't work.  Things could certainly be better.  But they could also be a hell of a lot worse!

Different debate. Still a car crash IMO.

[Numero Uno]

It would appear that many would like to go back to something nearer Nige as our next manager. The obvious question is what experienced manager will work under our set-up? If they are experienced guess who they will almost certainly know and sound out first?!!

Unfortunately, if we get rid of Manning I see nothing but a similar type of manager coming in........only "this one we've got cock on lads, he's much better, cross my heart and hope to die, trust us on this one innit". Knowing our Board we'll go from Liam Manning straight to someone who learned from John Beck.

[Northern Red]

14 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It would appear that many would like to go back to something nearer Nige as our next manager. The obvious question is what experienced manager will work under our set-up? If they are experienced guess who they will almost certainly know and sound out first?!!

Unfortunately, if we get rid of Manning I see nothing but a similar type of manager coming in........only "this one we've got cock on lads, he's much better, cross my heart and hope to die, trust us on this one innit". Knowing our Board we'll go from Liam Manning straight to someone who learned from John Beck.

Well he did say he used to hide in the laundry bins at Cambridge and listen to the teamtalks...

Edited March 19 by Northern Red

[Gert Mare]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

It would appear that many would like to go back to something nearer Nige as our next manager. The obvious question is what experienced manager will work under our set-up? If they are experienced guess who they will almost certainly know and sound out first?!!

Unfortunately, if we get rid of Manning I see nothing but a similar type of manager coming in........only "this one we've got cock on lads, he's much better, cross my heart and hope to die, trust us on this one innit". Knowing our Board we'll go from Liam Manning straight to someone who learned from John Beck.

Almost no experienced manager will work under our set up.

Amazed that Nige accepted the challenge to be fair.

Most managers / head coaches know that their futures are judged by results and they won’t be up for putting their necks on the line by utilising Academy players. They’ll expect financial backing. Nige was a pleasant exception.

Hughton, Coppell, Cotts etc didn’t fancy dipping into the academy.

Nige threw a lot of academy players in and guess what? He was sacked because results weren’t good enough! 

Edited March 19 by Gert Mare

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

The obvious question is what experienced manager will work under our set-up? If they are experienced guess who they will almost certainly know and sound out first?!!

Ian Gay questioned why we haven't yet appointed a head of medical on the latest pod and I think what you have said here answers that question. Nigel and Dave Rennie are held in high regard in the football industry at this level. 

Any head of medical that is worth their salt is gonna know Dave Rennie. People talk. That's why in my opinion the position hasn't yet been filled. 

People will know how Nigel and his staff were treated so they are likely to be put off joining us, unless you're a charlatan like Liam Manning of course. 

Edited March 19 by W-S-M Seagull

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

Almost no experienced manager will work under our set up.

Amazed that Nige accepted the challenge to be fair.

Most managers / head coaches know that their futures are judged by results and they won’t be up for putting their necks on the line by utilising Academy players. They’ll expect financial backing. Nige was a pleasant exception.

Hughton, Coppell, Cotts etc didn’t fancy dipping into the academy.

Nige threw a lot of academy players in and guess what? He was sacked because results weren’t good enough! 

I've been saying for a long time that they don't realise how good they had it with Pearson. They will struggle to find another manager who was is so willing to blood academy players because most managers simply care about their records. 

Pearson was a very rare exception in that he cared about the club more than he cared about his own record. 

The club blindly thought that because Manning once coached in an academy he'd be perfect for the role. What they didn't consider was the fact that Manning would not want to risk his record by blooding academy players.

We're already seeing him setting us up to not lose to protect his job so it's incredibly unlikely we'll ever see him blood academy players for the same reason. 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

Hughton, Coppell, Cotts etc didn’t fancy dipping into the academy.

Obviously not to the extent of Nige, but Cotts / Burt went into 14/15 recruitment with the expectation of Reid, Bryan and Burns being a key part of it.  Bryan starred.

[Gert Mare]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously not to the extent of Nige, but Cotts / Burt went into 14/15 recruitment with the expectation of Reid, Bryan and Burns being a key part of it.  Bryan starred. Dave. 

Yes Dave, in League One, but he had clear aspirations for proven players at Championship level and wanted business done early in the close season so he had time to work with those players in pre-season.

Remember those last minute £9 Million failed bids for Dwight Gayle and Andre Gray?

That was all a bit bizarre?

[Gert Mare]

24 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I've been saying for a long time that they don't realise how good they had it with Pearson. They will struggle to find another manager who was is so willing to blood academy players because most managers simply care about their records. 

Pearson was a very rare exception in that he cared about the club more than he cared about his own record. 

The club blindly thought that because Manning once coached in an academy he'd be perfect for the role. What they didn't consider was the fact that Manning would not want to risk his record by blooding academy players.

We're already seeing him setting us up to not lose to protect his job so it's incredibly unlikely we'll ever see him blood academy players for the same reason. 

I realised it when Nige took the job. I was pinching myself at the time because I couldn’t believe what a coup it was!

When he accepted blooding youngsters too I felt he deserved a new contract and given some money as a reward. Instead he got the sack and I tore my hair out in frustration as to the stupidity of the decision.

That was me done with the Lansdown’s and I’m watching from afar until they’re gone.

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I sssume you mean Rob Edwards not Joe Edwards?

Good lad Joe mind.

[beaverface]

4 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Haven’t been to Ashton Gate since NP was sacked, will not give the club my money anymore. 
 

Live in Manchester and spend my time helping/working for a non league side, the ex pros who watch and play at this level cannot believe we got rid of NP and PA. They all mention how much of a car crash our club is now and how we are now a running joke at how bad we are run. 
 

When NP and PA were there we were held in high regard and according to these ex pros players will not be signing for us in the summer. This is due to the regard we are now seen as a club and they all believe we are heading one way unless we have a big clear out top to bottom.

It bloody annoyed the hell out of me listening to the West Brom commentary, and no matter how biased that Andy Johnson was (dirty gashead b*****d) - there was elements of truth to what he was saying. We aren't very good, and the perception of how we're being run isn't very good either. I hope the board members listened to that, because we're turning into a laughing stock, with ex-gas taking the piss.

[1960maaan]

4 minutes ago, beaverface said:

It bloody annoyed the hell out of me listening to the West Brom commentary, and no matter how biased that Andy Johnson was (dirty gashead b*****d) - there was elements of truth to what he was saying. We aren't very good, and the perception of how we're being run isn't very good either. I hope the board members listened to that, because we're turning into a laughing stock, with ex-gas taking the piss.

I don't agree that we are not very good, we are playing poorly to say the least , but at least some of that is down to how they are being told to play.

Remember , it was only a few games ago that a couple of opposition Managers said we were the best pressing side in the division. That may have been a slight exaggeration , but that press has all but stopped in the last couple of games . That's not the players , that''s the Coach. 

[Shauntaylor85]

Wouldn’t it be great if our owner could go on the show. Tell us what he thinks, haven’t heard at all from SL all season.  

[BS3 Ark at Ee]

Does anyone think that Manning is actually feeling the pressure? He says he’s not on social media but Tinnion is so surely Brian knows how we’re all feeling? 

[red panda]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I've been saying for a long time that they don't realise how good they had it with Pearson. They will struggle to find another manager who was is so willing to blood academy players because most managers simply care about their records. 

Pearson was a very rare exception in that he cared about the club more than he cared about his own record. 

The club blindly thought that because Manning once coached in an academy he'd be perfect for the role. What they didn't consider was the fact that Manning would not want to risk his record by blooding academy players.

We're already seeing him setting us up to not lose to protect his job so it's incredibly unlikely we'll ever see him blood academy players for the same reason. 

I won't labour the point, but I think the quality of academy players coming through at the time also made it easier for Pearson to include them.

Tedious football plus poor results should be Manning's downfall, not so much his attitude to academy players.  Setting us up not to lose can be a good starting point, and early on I'm not sure Manning got enough credit for some of this.  It's been really noticeable how many times match reports would say that our opponents weren't their usual free-flowing selves, struggled to find their normal rhythm, weren't firing on all cylinders, etc.  It can't have been a coincidence that so many teams seemed to have an off day when playing us.  But Manning's abject failure to build from this foundation and improve things at the other end of the pitch means that I agree he has to go!

[Jerseybean]

Just listened to the programme from last night. 

Several key points stood out for me….

1) How to turn things around - winning games seemed the solution, as nobody in the studio suggested the Club would dispense with LM any time soon. Given our recent performances, low confidence (which was also discussed) and the increasingly toxic atmosphere it’s hard to see us winning many of our remaining eight games.

2) Lack of leadership - an old chestnut and as pointed out on the programme and above NP filled that role very well.

3) Owners lack of ambition - another old chestnut, references were made to significant investment in infrastructure much less said about investment in quality/proven players.

4) Communication - JP was pretty straightforward and forthright when discussing the framing (untruths) of NPs sacking and in many ways there was an agreement that the mess we are in all stems from that decision and the way it was handled. 
 

A good listen even if if the content was very concerning.

[1960maaan]

14 minutes ago, red panda said:

I won't labour the point, but I think the quality of academy players coming through at the time also made it easier for Pearson to include them.

Tedious football plus poor results should be Manning's downfall, not so much his attitude to academy players.  Setting us up not to lose can be a good starting point, and early on I'm not sure Manning got enough credit for some of this.  It's been really noticeable how many times match reports would say that our opponents weren't their usual free-flowing selves, struggled to find their normal rhythm, weren't firing on all cylinders, etc.  It can't have been a coincidence that so many teams seemed to have an off day when playing us.  But Manning's abject failure to build from this foundation and improve things at the other end of the pitch means that I agree he has to go!

I wouldn't criticise him too much for not using Academy players , though I would question not having them on the bench rather than and empty seat. We were probably due a quiet period with so many bloodied over the last few years , I think (hope) we may see 2/3 pushing next year. 
What I would question, is signing basically an academy player to try and come and make a difference. Odd IMO.

[ATRUEREDBLUE]

The solution for Bristol City is clear

1. The Club must be transparent, speak things as they are, and produce a plan to deal with what, the majority, of supporters can see. This means being honest about the Club’s weaknesses and failures on the pitch over many years (not being in the promotion frame in the same way that Cardiff, Swansea, Burnley, Norwich, Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Luton and others have been over many years) and putting forward a plan to address this. It also includes the Club being realistic, about the current playing squad and the risk that the club has taken in appointing LM as head coach (a good young coach with no relevant track record). In many ways LM has been put into a very difficult position (as far as expectations against resources is concerned and taking into account the competitiveness of the Championship) and this should be acknowledged by the Club.

 2. The supporter base should reach out to SL and the Lansdown family to communicate its appreciation for what the Lansdown’s have done for the club and the City of Bristol over the years (particularly in relation to the stadium and training facility) but at the same time should communicate that they believe that SL needs to obtain better help and guidance (in relation to both football and executive leadership at the club) and should make it a priority to obtain this.

 3. It would be for SL to acknowledge this support but also admit to the main failure that we have all witnessed during his tenure at the club – that of the lack of achievement on the pitch. It would help for SL to talk to supporters about this and to consider embracing their request that he should use some of his resources to find the best football and executive leadership possible (better than the personnel who have been appointed in the past and the current senior team), who can take responsibility for the strategy going forward. If we are aiming for the Premier League we need a Premier League standard Board and Leadership. SL has achieved massive things at the Club but it would show huge strength to admit and address the key failure of his tenure - that of under achieving on the pitch notwithstanding his financial status and input. To be honest, it feels as though the clubs approach to its main challenge (that of getting to the Premier League) has been parochial, second rate and a bit local - in some ways this mirrors the way many people within football view our Club - we are unfashionable and they don't see us as Premier League. This is something we must change because Bristol is a Premier League City and deserves a Premier League Club. Places like Swansea, Norwich, Burnley, Huddersfield and Bournemouth cannot hold a candle to Bristol. 

 4. The new football and executive leadership would be tasked with (a) developing a robust succession plan for SL and the Lansdown family and (b) assessing what the club needs both in relation to playing squad and football management and coaching to mount a realistic challenge for the play-offs and promotion.

 5. This approach would gain the respect of the supporters (it would give transparency and would propose a solution to the current situation which supporters are becoming increasing despondent about) and would protect the deserved legacy of SL and the Lansdown family at the same time. 

[Superjack]

7 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

I’ve managed to listen this morning to SOTC from last night and agree that it was a very interesting and insightful debate.

Interested when Peircy talked about the whole atmosphere affecting feelings of supporters and players.

He also acknowledged that this whole debacle could have been better handled by the club. 

As I alluded to in another post elsewhere the club seem hell bent on creating a “them and us” divide between supporters and the board and I echo Piercy’s comments that Nigel was a figurehead who didn’t shirk from challenging comments, but also tried to get players and fans onboard by being authentic, honest, empathetic and displayed integrity.

Yes, he might have called out individuals, but he also was true to his word that if a player showed willingness to improve and be ready to knock on the door when the opportunity arose again that he would give them another chance and he was a man of his word, thus earning respect.

The board do not seem to grasp these qualities. Sometimes you need to call out negatives, but at the same time you balance it out by also giving credit for positive contributions. This creates motivation because the negatives are turned into learning opportunities and also provides accountability and people understand their responsibilities.

The board should have been truthful in the reasons for their dismissal of Nigel Pearson and whilst some supporters may not have liked it at least they would haven’t tried to fill in narratives in their own minds.

Instead they concocted a bizarre communication plan with wildly unrealistic aims and as Peircy indicated, it became the stick to beat the owners with as soon as things started to go wrong.

Manning was set up to fail and anything else would have been a bonus. A lot of this toxic feel around the club could have been avoided by the board simply showing some integrity.

Now they have nowhere to hide and will have to be held accountable due to stating that the squad is one of the best, top end, front foot, best chance of success this season blah, blah, blah - all because they blind-sided the supporters, threw Liam into a toxic cauldron and then ran away and hid.

Everything good they do is undone by the divide they create through spineless communication.

Bristol City can be successful, but only with strong leadership and those behaviours and stepping up and taking responsibility that Liam talks about starts at the very top and filters down throughout the club.

I’m sorry, but until these fundamental requirements change then we’re doomed to mediocrity at best and abject failure at worst.

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

Yes Dave, in League One, but he had clear aspirations for proven players at Championship level and wanted business done early in the close season so he had time to work with those players in pre-season.

Remember those last minute £9 Million failed bids for Dwight Gayle and Andre Gray?

That was all a bit bizarre?

Imagine had the £4.5m for Gray and £2m for Maguire had gone through, plus the £250k Fredericks hadn’t got whacked!

Believe the later bids for Gray and Gayle were “only” £6m.  In Gayle’s case “plus £3m if promoted”.

1 hour ago, BS3 Ark at Ee said:

Does anyone think that Manning is actually feeling the pressure? He says he’s not on social media but Tinnion is so surely Brian knows how we’re all feeling? 

Yes, massively.

[Guest]

Having just listened, I‘m tempted to listen all over again. An excellent programme, knowledgeable and even handed guests, well presented by the host, well done Radio Bristol.

No attention seeking from anyone (bar one text), sensible, truthful comment, tempered with common sense but not holding back on topics many of us are concerned about.

If only next weeks programme could have SL, JL and BT as guests who are asked about their actions that have in my opinion put our club in a perilous situation, and they answer with the same clarity and truthfulness displayed in this programme.

Anyone seen any flying pigs.

[One Team]

2 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Having just listened, I‘m tempted to listen all over again. An excellent programme, knowledgeable and even handed guests, well presented by the host, well done Radio Bristol.

No attention seeking from anyone (bar one text), sensible, truthful comment, tempered with common sense but not holding back on topics many of us are concerned about.

If only next weeks programme could have SL, JL and BT as guests who are asked about their actions that have in my opinion put our club in a perilous situation, and they answer with the same clarity and truthfulness displayed in this programme.

Anyone seen any flying pigs.

I listened to it again earlier, it’s worth another listen for sure. 

[Superjack]

3 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

Almost no experienced manager will work under our set up.

Amazed that Nige accepted the challenge to be fair.

Most managers / head coaches know that their futures are judged by results and they won’t be up for putting their necks on the line by utilising Academy players. They’ll expect financial backing. Nige was a pleasant exception.

Hughton, Coppell, Cotts etc didn’t fancy dipping into the academy.

Nige threw a lot of academy players in and guess what? He was sacked because results weren’t good enough! 

Except he wasn't.

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Except he wasn't.

I think JP spoke a lot of truth last night when he said the club want to achieve promotion in a pure way. 

They want purity and that wouldn't be the case if NP got us promotion. 

Because rightfully NP would have got the plaudits. They didn't like that, thats not purity in their eyes. 

This obsession with purity is bloody bizarre. 

But that purity reason was one of the reasons he was sacked. 

Boogles the mind that they knew he could get us promoted but didn't want us to get promoted with him in charge. My brain can't figure out that mentality.

[Leabrook]

17 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Except he wasn't.

I think he was wasn’t he? ‘Top 6 squad’ was bottom half so he was sacked.  

[Superjack]

4 minutes ago, Leabrook said:

I think he was wasn’t he? ‘Top 6 squad’ was bottom half so he was sacked.  

Yeah right....

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, BS3 Ark at Ee said:

Does anyone think that Manning is actually feeling the pressure? He says he’s not on social media but Tinnion is so surely Brian knows how we’re all feeling? 

When he says he can't control how supporters think that tells you all you need to know. If I was him, cos you can guarantee he knows where he stands now if he didn't a week or two ago, I'd be tempted to have a go against both Leicester and Plymouth and if he picks up three points from those two he gets more time. However the way we set up on Saturday was pure fear until the game was lost so I can't see that happening.

[The Bard]

17 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think JP spoke a lot of truth last night when he said the club want to achieve promotion in a pure way. 

They want purity and that wouldn't be the case if NP got us promotion. 

Because rightfully NP would have got the plaudits. They didn't like that, thats not purity in their eyes. 

This obsession with purity is bloody bizarre. 

But that purity reason was one of the reasons he was sacked. 

Boogles the mind that they knew he could get us promoted but didn't want us to get promoted with him in charge. My brain can't figure out that mentality.

It's not difficult mate. It's jealousy.

 

The equivalent of taking your ball home from a kick about in the park because one of your mates is better than you.

[Numero Uno]

32 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think JP spoke a lot of truth last night when he said the club want to achieve promotion in a pure way. 

They want purity and that wouldn't be the case if NP got us promotion. 

Because rightfully NP would have got the plaudits. They didn't like that, thats not purity in their eyes. 

This obsession with purity is bloody bizarre. 

But that purity reason was one of the reasons he was sacked. 

Boogles the mind that they knew he could get us promoted but didn't want us to get promoted with him in charge. My brain can't figure out that mentality.

What is getting promoted in a "pure" way? I'm all ******* ears on this...................

[Leabrook]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What is getting promoted in a "pure" way? I'm all ******* ears on this...................

I don’t think he said a pure way. I’d like to think I’d remember that quote as it’s so stupid 

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What is getting promoted in a "pure" way? I'm all ******* ears on this...................

With 11 Bristolians in the team and a young on the grass coach with a 'club legend' over seeing it all

[steviestevieneville]

8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What is getting promoted in a "pure" way? I'm all ******* ears on this...................

JP did say it. At a guess I’d say . He wants a squad largely of academy kids . All good lads . Class of 92 type scenario . It’s not purity though , it’s insanity . 

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What is getting promoted in a "pure" way? I'm all ******* ears on this...................

The “Lansdown Way”, ie the way SL thinks it should be achieved…

20 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

With 11 Bristolians in the team and a young on the grass coach with a 'club legend' over seeing it all

…might not be a million miles off!

Seriously though, I think he wants to achieve it by some clever way (whatever that is) to prove to everyone he “knows football”.  Insecurity really! 

[Numero Uno]

Might be a while then…..

[Superjack]

It's 'pure' bullshit, is what it is.

[redsquirrel]

its the daftest thing he could ever dream of. 

1,he gets his team of young academy players looking promising for a promotion push,january comes along,all the best players get poached by bigger clubs 

2, he holds on to all his little cherubs and by some miracle they make it,woohoo, new season starts,he suddenly needs to find £100 milion to buy some prem experience or suffer 9-0s against the big boys every other week

[PFree]

On 18/03/2024 at 20:04, Phileas Fogg said:

In all seriousness i’m not sure - I imagine what he’s really saying is he wants players to work to a game plan regardless of external factors.

Think the emotions are related to box entries, there’s a right way and a wrong way..?

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

When he says he can't control how supporters think that tells you all you need to know.

The guy simply does not understand the whole football culture and that football is for the fans. He's probably spent so long in the sterile world of coaching that he has became institutionalised. 

The clubs he has 'managed' don't have the greatest of support. One club in particular that he got sacked from I don't even recognise any of their 'fans' 

He sees the fans as an annoyance because he can't give the fans a game plan, he can't control the fans and their emotions. He only ever talks about the fans when prompted. More than bloody happy to come over and do his pathetic fist pumps tho.

When we do win its always "I'm so happy for the staff and the players" 

In some ways he's the perfect head coach for our owners because they also see the fans as an annoyance. 

You'll never hear him off his own back say "I'm sorry that the fans have had to travel all this way using their hard earned cash to witness that, they deserve better" he will never say those things because he simply cannot relate. 

When you're a manager of a Championship club you need to be able to manage the fans too. He simply does not have that in his skillset. 

For Liam Manning it's all about Liam Manning, he doesn't care about the fans. He doesn't value the fanbase because he doesn't believe that fans can make a player pass the ball accurately or take a shot on target. He thinks all that is achieved through coaching. 

He simply does not understand that emotions of the crowd can impact performances and results.

People like Cotts, GJ and Pearson are held in high regard because they connected with the fanbase. 

The funny thing is that Mannings refusal to do that is what will cost him his job and it will be richly deserved and a harsh lesson for him that you can't overlook the importance of a fanbase. 

 

[JP Hampton]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

All I’d say is that there appear to be some very loose lips at AG / HPC at the mo’!!!

Possibly adds some credence to my comments about Ian seeming to back track a little on Manning on FBC podcast, if he believed his source of information. 

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

The “Lansdown Way”, ie the way SL thinks it should be achieved…

…might not be a million miles off!

Seriously though, I think he wants to achieve it by some clever way (whatever that is) to prove to everyone he “knows football”.  Insecurity really! 

The thing is I have no idea what the Lansdown Way is. Worse, I'm not sure he does either.

Is it funding scatter gun recruitment, doubling the wage bill and putting the club in a financial hole?

Is it developing academy players to sell on at the earliest opportunity or to keep them as the core of the team?

Is it appointing an experienced manager and CEO and letting them use their expertise or rookies who will do as they are told because he knows best?

I agree he wants to prove he's a football expert despite the evidence to the contrary. It's not unusual for people who have become rich because they are expert in one field to believe they can be the same in any other field they choose imo.

I don't see him changing sadly.

[Ian M]

You know how you can prove to the doubters that you “know football”?

Appoint a competent / experienced CEO.

Appoint a competent / experienced DoF.

Appoint a competent / experienced Manager.

Let the 3 appointments above overhaul recruitment.

We already have a decent Academy.

Set a budget and let them do what they have built their reputations on without interference.

[Bowlegchicken]

Totally agree on that  Ian

[One Team]

5 hours ago, Ian M said:

You know how you can prove to the doubters that you “know football”?

Appoint a competent / experienced CEO.

Appoint a competent / experienced DoF.

Appoint a competent / experienced Manager.

Let the 3 appointments above overhaul recruitment.

We already have a decent Academy.

Set a budget and let them do what they have built their reputations on without interference.

Spot on Ian.

As the saying goes, hire great people and then get out of their way!

[One Team]

Having listened to the show again I do wonder (if slightly tongue in cheek) if Piercy’s “fans sack managers” comment, endorsed by Owers, was a rallying cry! A “come on then City fans, if you want him gone say so” statement it you will. 

Edited March 20 by One Team

[westonred]

One question i would love someone to ask SL is and he would have to answer honestly  "If JL was not your son would you have him anywhere near your football club" ?

 I think we all know the honest answer to that 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, westonred said:

One question i would love someone to ask SL is and he would have to answer honestly  "If JL was not your son would you have him anywhere near your football club" ?

 I think we all know the honest answer to that 

The same question could be asked to Gary Johnson.