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If losing 7-0 tonight live on Sky forced change…


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3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

My default position and the one I’ll always fall back on is I support Bristol City. Not Liam Manning, not Brian Tinnion - Bristol City. Now that does mean that the clubs success happens to people I don’t care for, but I’d rather see the club do well than not.

So for all I think Liam and Brian and Jon need to go for the good of the club, I’d much rather we won the remaining 11 than anything else.

That being said, I totally get the logic. And if you work on the basis we’re going to be patchy at best until seasons end, it’s better to get the defeats done now and what looks the inevitable to happen.

So, I’d much rather we won. But I wouldn’t in some ways be heartbroken if what you say did happen and it was the catalyst for change.

A 7-0 humiliation live on TV 

To Ipswich ?

Couldn’t even consider it for a second , SD , even if we had appointed Barton

 

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3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

My default position and the one I’ll always fall back on is I support Bristol City. Not Liam Manning, not Brian Tinnion - Bristol City. Now that does mean that the clubs success happens to people I don’t care for, but I’d rather see the club do well than not.

So for all I think Liam and Brian and Jon need to go for the good of the club, I’d much rather we won the remaining 11 than anything else.

That being said, I totally get the logic. And if you work on the basis we’re going to be patchy at best until seasons end, it’s better to get the defeats done now and what looks the inevitable to happen.

So, I’d much rather we won. But I wouldn’t in some ways be heartbroken if what you say did happen and it was the catalyst for change.

Depends if you go for the short term or long term view.

Do I want us to win tonight? Yes of course

Does something dramatic need to happen to get rid of Tinnion first of all, and old man Lansdown to come to his senses re correct help for his son? Yes it does

Sadly I think a few heavy defeats towards the end of the season causing more obvious angst amongst the fanbase to Tinnion and the Lansdowns is more in the long term interests of our success than bumbling our way to 56 points (as long as we survive in the league) 

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5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

A 7-0 humiliation live on TV 

To Ipswich ?

Couldn’t even consider it for a second , SD , even if we had appointed Barton

 

I should also add that one of my best mates is an Ipswich fan so I really don’t want it to happen mate - more saying I get the “greater good” logic

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15 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

… would you take it?

Keep your powder dry-

Manning will be gone sometime this year....

Sadly it will be dear Jon recruiting his replacement!

It's unfortunate that Tinnion won't be leaving with him imo.

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1 minute ago, Back of the Dolman said:

I didn’t want you to turn up for nothing on Saturday but that could still be the same Sunday of course 🙄

 

1 minute ago, Back of the Dolman said:

I didn’t want you to turn up for nothing on Saturday but that could still be the same Sunday of course 🙄

top man👍 im not going back down bs3 but was going to s weds til my gearbox went. ive got another car now so hopefully going to go and cheers cotts on at some point until i can trust my car on longer journeys

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I don’t want us to lose, nor lose heavily.

As per @Silvio Dante’s post, for me the catalyst can be driven from something other than a single-match result, so I don’t really concur..

FWIW I think we have a great bunch of pros and I really think they will play for each other.  There is also some self-preservation in there, that says I don’t want the finger being pointed at me and my teammates, if they think the problems are elsewhere.

Just imagine this game was on sky and lots of people looking on.  Ah, hmmm, shit!

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4 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

 

top man👍 im not going back down bs3 but was going to s weds til my gearbox went. ive got another car now so hopefully going to go and cheers cotts on at some point until i can trust my car on longer journeys

Soft top?

Sat nav set to BS3.

go, go, go!

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8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Have any of our previous heavy defeats brought about seismic change that has delivered long-term success?

I hate to say it…

But shipping the seven at Swansea led to getting rid of Tinnion and the appointment of Johnson, which in turn led to promotion the following season, our highest league finish for a generation and several years at the level above. It lasted about 5 years. So, it depends what you mean by long term and or seismic change. But I’d argue that in the sphere of a football club, a managerial change is fairly seismic and a markedly improved position for at least half a decade is at least medium term success.

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3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I hate to say it…

But shipping the seven at Swansea led to getting rid of Tinnion and the appointment of Johnson, which in turn led to promotion the following season, our highest league finish for a generation and several years at the level above. It lasted about 5 years. So, it depends what you mean by long term and or seismic change. But I’d argue that in the sphere of a football club, a managerial change is fairly seismic and a markedly improved position for at least half a decade is at least medium term success.

Fair. And...whisper it quietly...but for all the faults the Johnson reign is our most successful period at this level in modern times.

Decent example, although the seismic change I'd like to see is further up the hierarchy than the manager/head coach. Not sure we've ever seen board (or pseudo-board in the case of the Tecknical Directer) change after a defeat?

Edited by ExiledAjax
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1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Fair. And...whisper it quietly...but for all the faults the Johnson reign is our most successful period at this level in modern times.

Decent example, although the seismic change I'd like to see is further up the hierarchy than the manager/head coach. Not sure we've ever seen board (or pseudo-board in the case of the Tecknical Directer) change after a defeat?

I’d agree with that. I’m not sure a defeat would ever lead to a sale of a club/chairman resignation so we’ll never get that far up the chain. I can, however foresee Tinnion acting to get rid of Liam and protect his own position. Ironically a 7-0 defeat may do for Liam but a run such as which we’re on continuing is more likely to also see BT go - so it may actually even be a decent result for him!

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24 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I hate to say it…

But shipping the seven at Swansea led to getting rid of Tinnion and the appointment of Johnson, which in turn led to promotion the following season, our highest league finish for a generation and several years at the level above. It lasted about 5 years. So, it depends what you mean by long term and or seismic change. But I’d argue that in the sphere of a football club, a managerial change is fairly seismic and a markedly improved position for at least half a decade is at least medium term success.

Context was a bit different though - Tinnion had a year and a bit of mediocre results. Manning has had 5? Months and had some signs of progress at least, albeit others where we’ve gone backwards.

That said I do remember saying to my wife that I hoped we’d get humiliated once it was clear we were going to lose that Swansea game, as it might force hands. Sure enough…..

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3 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

had some signs of progress at least

Genuinely not seeing this.  Performances have regressed, players have regressed, results have regressed and league position has regressed.  I see zero signs of any sort of progress.

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@Ivorguy you've found a kindred spirit.

As far as losing 7-0....

If we were in the same league as the gas AND had absolutely nothing to play for AND it guaranteed that gas were relegated AND all our players celebrated every goal conceded by lifting up their shirt revealing a 'gas are going' down t-shirt whilst hi-fiving the fans then YES. In all other circumstances NO.

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50 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

and believe it or not, i think we have got a chance of a result tonight

We will almost certainly play until the final whistle, thus achieving some kind of result. 

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41 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Have any of our previous heavy defeats brought about seismic change that has delivered long-term success?

Interesting one. The only thing that has ever produced any modicum of success is developing our own young squad until they are ready to compete at the top.
 

This is fundamental to why many are so fed up with “The Board” and there decision to fire the guy who was doing it, and providing us the seismic change of Liam Manning! This guy is constantly telling us these players aren’t listening and he needs his own!
 

The seismic change happened when we lost at Cardiff last year. Firing Manning if we get beaten by more than a couple tonight would be just an after shock!

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4 minutes ago, Malago said:

I’ve got a funny feeling we’ll play well tonight.   Not saying we’ll win, but I think we’ll give Ipswich a game.

Likewise. Lock me up now but I can see us winning 3-0.

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While Manning is so far showing he is not up to it, the problem lies much higher. If it meant Lansdown and Co call it a day and find a buyer I’d take it. 100%. 

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What City supporter would want a 7-0 thrashing? Well possibly a few on here I could think of  just to cement their position regarding Manning etc. Some of the comments of late are pretty much embarrassing, I get the frustration but to sack everyone  including the guy who keeps this club afloat is either naive or just brain dead. 

This game is a 'free hit' in that no one expects any return, Sunday a different matter. Lose Sunday and I feel there is no more excuses and he should go.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Have any of our previous heavy defeats brought about seismic change that has delivered long-term success?

Exactly - when do the board wonder if it’s the managers they keep getting wrong or the set up they are working within? 

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1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Have any of our previous heavy defeats brought about seismic change that has delivered long-term success?

I’d argue the 6-0 Watford embarrassment tipped the scales heavily against the ludicrous Holden appointment & that his successor significantly improved our situation.

To answer the exam question though I don’t want us to lose tonight by any margin at all.

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1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Have any of our previous heavy defeats brought about seismic change that has delivered long-term success?

Tinnion getting sacked for GJ.

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21 minutes ago, One Team said:

I can’t imagine anyone would want to see us lose 7 - 0, but even if we did I don’t think they would sack him. 

Exactly my thoughts 

Never want to see us lost a game

 

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3 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Tinnion getting sacked for GJ.

Tinnion resigned- it's all well documented .

His resignation did , however, bring in a period of great fun (mainly) and an 'almost' moment.

If you think LM will resign or be fired in the next 24-48 hours then you may well be disappointed.

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50 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Context was a bit different though - Tinnion had a year and a bit of mediocre results. Manning has had 5? Months and had some signs of progress at least, albeit others where we’ve gone backwards.

That said I do remember saying to my wife that I hoped we’d get humiliated once it was clear we were going to lose that Swansea game, as it might force hands. Sure enough…..

This is a total myth which has constantly been churned out. 

There has been zero signs of any progress in his time here. 

Infact we have got worse. 

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1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Tinnion resigned- it's all well documented .

His resignation did , however, bring in a period of great fun (mainly) and an 'almost' moment.

If you think LM will resign or be fired in the next 24-48 hours then you may well be disappointed.

He got to resign simply due to the fact of being SLs friend.

Manning won't get that allowance.

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I would hope are players are better than that losing 7-0 is a massive collapse i just can't see us doing that. It's one of those we turn up or we don't but it's how manning sets up from the start that's the important part. I'm not confident we will come back with anything but this is the championship so who knows.

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Did the Few fire ..... Bobby Campbell? Bobby Gould? .... whoever it was after their 0:9? No seismic change at Eastville back then that I recall, think they just tootled along like nothing terribly untoward had taken place. I expect Peter Godsiff cheered them all up by writing something nice, telling them how "special" a club they were .... 

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10 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Tinnion resigned- it's all well documented .

His resignation did , however, bring in a period of great fun (mainly) and an 'almost' moment.

If you think LM will resign or be fired in the next 24-48 hours then you may well be disappointed.

What if we lose 0:8?

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9 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Or an episode of The Repair Shop

"And what have you brought in to the shop today"

"Well Jay I've brought this. It's a 130 year old football club that my great-great-grandfather found in Bristol."

"Oh wow. Oh wow it's beautiful. A bit faded, a bit bashed about a bit isn't it. Looks like it's not been looked after brilliantly maybe?"

"Yeh it's had it's fair share of adventures. Quite a few ups and downs. Once went all the way down to the basement straight from the loft, quite the plummet that was. Took a beating but we've managed to get it straightened out a little bit ourselves."

"Wonderful. Now, what would you like us to do with it?"

"Well it's been in my family for generations you see, and really, really I just want to see it in an FA Cup final one more time, maybe a second place finish in the top division. God maybe even just a Gloucester Cup win."

"Yeh, yeh, well leave it with us and we'll see what we can do."

Edited by ExiledAjax
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I never ever want us to lose and that doesn't change tonight.

What I want is for us to produce a brilliant performance and win. However, even if that happens. I want the club to look at the pattern rather than the individual dots. A win would be great but it would only be meaningful for the long-term if it is followed by consistent improvement and a sustained period of good results. Otherwise it's great to get a result but meaningless in terms of our long-term direction.

In the past, I think we've been too easily swayed by the good result at the right time. Lee Johnson in particular had a knack of pulling a result out of nowhere when everyone had run out of patience and I can certainly see a scenario where the team play with less pressure to get a result against a team who provide opportunities to counter-attack and it results in a win or a draw, which then becomes "evidence" that the club is on the right path, only for it quickly to transpire that no lessons are learned. What I would say is that - whatever the results - if the team do not raise their performance levels tonight then I will be even more sceptical of the manager's ability to turn things round. 

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30 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

I would rather lose 7-0 tonight and Manning gets sacked than go through a whole rebuild again.  I can’t bear another rebuild.  

Isn't that exactly what will trigger a whole new rebuild?

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21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

"And what have you brought in to the shop today"

"Well Jay I've brought this. It's a 130 year old football club that my great-great-grandfather found in Bristol."

"Oh wow. Oh wow it's beautiful. A bit faded, a bit bashed about a bit isn't it. Looks like it's not been looked after brilliantly maybe?"

"Yeh it's had it's fair share of adventures. Quite a few ups and downs. Once went all the way down to the basement straight from the loft, quite the plummet that was. Took a beating but we've managed to get it straightened out a little bit ourselves."

"Wonderful. Now, what would you like us to do with it?"

"Well it's been in my family for generations you see, and really, really I just want to see it in an FA Cup final one more time, maybe a second place finish in the top division. God maybe even just a Gloucester Cup win."

"Yeh, yeh, well leave it with us and we'll see what we can do."

Abandon all hope, ye who enter ... here.image.jpeg.cfbdc69b6646c0305667ba1bea64b6bf.jpeg

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It’s a tricky one as I understand the sentiment behind it. As someone highlighted previously, smashing by Swansea almost 20 years ago lead to Tinnions sacking, and GJ taking over. Rest is history.

The challenge you have is, we don’t know what the temperature is by SL or JL. They may have given Manning their full support regardless of league position this year, as long as it’s not relegation. 
 

If I could look into a crystal ball and knew if we lost tonight and at Swansea. Lead to the removal of Manning. I myself would be somewhat tempted to take that risk. You never want your team to lose but you also want the greater good for your team and look for the future. If short term pain lead to long term fortune. You’d have to take it.

Furthermore, even if Manning was removed. I have zero faith in those above to get the next appointment right.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

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1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

Genuinely not seeing this.  Performances have regressed, players have regressed, results have regressed and league position has regressed.  I see zero signs of any sort of progress.

 

56 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is a total myth which has constantly been churned out. 

There has been zero signs of any progress in his time here. 

Infact we have got worse. 

No signs at all? To start with we kept the ball more which I think was overdue if we were going to progress as a team. Watford away, West Ham, Forest away. Then the Southampton game, 4 games ago, was the best performance by a City team I’ve seen in a good while, regardless of how we played tactically and similarities to NPs. Certainly the most convincing performance against an ex Prem team given our record has been appalling against them in recent times. 

Look last few games are concerning, I’m not glossing over the big issues we have. I just don’t think it’s been nothing but decline since he took over 🤷🏻‍♂️.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

 

No signs at all? To start with we kept the ball more which I think was overdue if we were going to progress as a team. Watford away, West Ham, Forest away. Then the Southampton game, 4 games ago, was the best performance by a City team I’ve seen in a good while, regardless of how we played tactically and similarities to NPs. Certainly the most convincing performance against an ex Prem team given our record has been appalling against them in recent times. 

Look last few games are concerning, I’m not glossing over the big issues we have. I just don’t think it’s been nothing but decline since he took over 🤷🏻‍♂️.

 

 

Resilient in the cup games and Southampton was our best all round performance probably for years , but an outlier right now

 

We are 22nd in the form table since Boxing Day , not over 3 games

Only doomed Rotherham worse

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6 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

 

No signs at all? To start with we kept the ball more which I think was overdue if we were going to progress as a team. Watford away, West Ham, Forest away. Then the Southampton game, 4 games ago, was the best performance by a City team I’ve seen in a good while, regardless of how we played tactically and similarities to NPs. Certainly the most convincing performance against an ex Prem team given our record has been appalling against them in recent times. 

Look last few games are concerning, I’m not glossing over the big issues we have. I just don’t think it’s been nothing but decline since he took over 🤷🏻‍♂️.

 

 

You've mentioned that we keep the ball better but then mention 6 games where we played more like how we did previously. 

Do we keep the ball better? I don't think so. I think we see a lot of passing amongst our back 4 which bores the life out of everyone. I think you're really scraping the barrel if you think that is progress. 

@Davefevs mentioned something about passing/possession last night on SOTC. 

It's not been a recent decline. Its been happening ever since he got here. Its just that the cup games glossed over the league performances.

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