Max O’Leary (merged topics)

[GrahamC]

100th League game for us today (in all competitions he’s played our last 83), second consecutive clean sheet.

Lovely to see a son of Somerset doing well.

The Leicester game was the 100th in the league for us for both Matty James & Cam Pring, by the way.

[Crackers Corner]

He has improved massively over last few months. Kicking is better and has kept us in several games 

[extonsred]

2 minutes ago, Crackers Corner said:

He has improved massively over last few months. Kicking is better and has kept us in several games 

Absolutely, keeps so calm, must help defence in front of him. 

[George Rs]

Was about to say this, didn’t think he put one out today or against Leicester unless he was massively under pressure. 

Finds Pring consistently for the flick on left side of the half way line as well. At least an above average shot stopper as well.

[Dullmoan Tone]

7 minutes ago, Crackers Corner said:

Kicking is better

Look he’s playing well but his distribution is still way below expected - did you see him kick and throw it straight out of play on Friday?

[Davefevs]

His sweeping is allowing us to defend higher

[And Its Smith]

I don’t actually think he has improved over the last few months. I think he’s been this good for over a year now.  

[Fpcity]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

I don’t actually think he has improved over the last few months. I think he’s been this good for over a year now.  

Agreed! I think he's only just starting to win over people after the Bentley love in. 

[Silvio Dante]

As a Max critic prior he’s come on very well in the decision making/distribution points which were always his weakness. Theres never been a question over shot stopping but now the other factors are coming together.

It was interesting for me today comparing him to Cooper. I thought he was also an excellent shot stopper, and distribution wise a bit hit and miss. Seemed very much like Max a couple of years back.

Edited April 1 by Silvio Dante

[Curr Avon]

One of the best keepers in the Championship.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Curr Avon said:

One of the best keepers in the Championship.

Correct. 

[Bazooka Joe]

Nice to see Max getting so much praise.

 

[1960maaan]

His starting point is high enough to be like an extra CB , can pick off through balls and is always available for a pass. His kicking can still improve, I'd like him to drill it a little more . Shot stopping and 1v1 he's very good , but what I like is he comes for crosses . It's a bit of thing for me, I used to get annoyed with Frankie then Bentley was worse . But Max will come to the edge of his box to catch and today he came into traffic about 4/5 times to punch , a massive help for the defence and can really add confidence to a team defending. 

[Davefevs]

When we are top-6 next season we can then judge how good he is!

Seriously, he’s a very capable and solid GK…importantly, trusted by his defence.

[Numero Uno]

You cannot be a clown AND have his goals conceded record at the level we play at. Anyone who thinks you can knows eff all about goalkeeping.

[Red Billy]

83 consecutive games? Wonder what the record is at city for consecutive games played? Anyone know?

[mozo]

57 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

100th League game for us today (in all competitions he’s played our last 83), second consecutive clean sheet.

Lovely to see a son of Somerset doing well.

The Leicester game was the 100th in the league for us for both Matty James & Cam Pring, by the way.

Thanks for flagging that. He's a proper City boy and doing well. I said on another thread, he's still young for a goalie so the best is yet to come.

55 minutes ago, Crackers Corner said:

He has improved massively over last few months. Kicking is better and has kept us in several games 

I still don't like his kicking, a mixed bag today.

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

His sweeping is allowing us to defend higher

Yeah a few good examples of that today.

[Gazred]

7 minutes ago, Red Billy said:

83 consecutive games? Wonder what the record is at city for consecutive games played? Anyone know?

I don't know the answer but Aden Flint had a good run from recent memory.

[Crackers Corner]

48 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Look he’s playing well but his distribution is still way below expected - did you see him kick and throw it straight out of play on Friday?

I disagree earlier in the season his kicking was a liability, as @Silvio Dantesaid his decision making wasn't great either. We seem to have a solid option in max now that I personally didn't see earlier in the season. His distribution is way better than it was. And as you mention not perfect it's no worse than most of the rest of the championship keepers.

[Negan]

Has improved but still think we need better. He’s great for a lower half championship team but if we do genuinely want to push on then we need a better number 1. Credit where it’s due though he’s had a great Easter weekend! 

[The Humble Realist]

I have said for a long time that he is 'ok' but have to eat my words and say that recently hes been excellent. 

Some great saves to earn us points (or further embarrassment!)

Well done max 

[grifty]

35 minutes ago, Crackers Corner said:

I disagree earlier in the season his kicking was a liability, as @Silvio Dantesaid his decision making wasn't great either. We seem to have a solid option in max now that I personally didn't see earlier in the season. His distribution is way better than it was. And as you mention not perfect it's no worse than most of the rest of the championship keepers.

He seems to be being ‘safer’ with his kicking and taking a bit more time for the longer balls to the wings (Pring or Tanner/McCrorie).

I think it also helps having a settled centre back pairing who are both comfortable on the ball and always looking for it. They seem to split wide which then allows James to come short so Max has plenty of options now.

[GlastonburyRed]

Handsome chap to boot.

[ExiledAjax]

He's always been good enough. This season a decent screen in front of him is allowing him the space to breath and demonstrate his ability. That helping him post the kind of numbers that make him look like one of the best in the league. It's nuanced but my reading of it is that he's good, but the defence helps him to be really good. Almost as though football is a team game.

My opinion is also that having CBs who are confident on the ball - Dickie in particular - help him with the recycle and the out. 

I've always said we don't need to upgrade the goalkeeper to finish in the top 6 and it's great that he's currently demonstrating that.

Edited April 1 by ExiledAjax

[steveybadger]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

He's always been good enough. This season a decent screen in front of him is allowing him the space to breath and demonstrate his ability. That helping him post the kind of numbers that make him look like one of the best in the league. It's nuanced but my reading of it is that he's good, but the defence helps him to be really good. Almost as though football is a team game.

My opinion is also that having CBs who are confident on the ball - Dickie in particular - help him with the recycle and the out. 

I've always said we don't need to upgrade the goalkeeper to finish in the top 6 and it's great that he's currently demonstrating that.

Football as a team game . Nah it’s all about individuals who are either complete rubbish or the love child of Pele and Messi.

 

6 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Handsome chap to boot.

Never confused. He is mind

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

One of the best keepers in the Championship.

Exactly! 
 

Some of the stuff you read and hear is nonsense. 
 

The Leicester performance added a lot of value!

[ralphindevon]

Once again a lesson for all those quick to write off that what you see when a player has a bad game isn’t necessarily what you’ll get going forward. These players train full time and there’s every chance they’ll improve.

I guess we should say the same about the Manning too, I’m sure during those dreadful games he wasn’t thinking this is fine, surely he was looking for ways to Improve and this weekend we have.

I’m not saying he the messiah all of a sudden but we’re stuck with him at least until at least Christmas I’d guess, so here’s hoping. 

 

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

One of the best keepers in the Championship.

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

He's always been good enough. This season a decent screen in front of him is allowing him the space to breath and demonstrate his ability. That helping him post the kind of numbers that make him look like one of the best in the league. It's nuanced but my reading of it is that he's good, but the defence helps him to be really good. Almost as though football is a team game.

My opinion is also that having CBs who are confident on the ball - Dickie in particular - help him with the recycle and the out. 

I've always said we don't need to upgrade the goalkeeper to finish in the top 6 and it's great that he's currently demonstrating that.

Really? Is there evidence to support this view? Which numbers are you referring to - is it simply save percentage?

Agree MOL has improved in recent times and that he's fine for where we are, but to say he's one of the best goalkeepers in the league feels like a bit of a stretch.

[Steve Watts]

He has improved massively, but he still needs to work on his judgment when releasing the ball (Friday to Zak was an extreme example but not the first time he's put his defence under pressure) and also his command of the 6 yard box. All too often the ball passes through that area without him claiming it. 

However, as said, it's still a massive improvement from where he was, so hopefully he can improve on these things too.

[ExiledAjax]

31 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Really? Is there evidence to support this view? Which numbers are you referring to - is it simply save percentage?

Agree MOL has improved in recent times and that he's fine for where we are, but to say he's one of the best goalkeepers in the league feels like a bit of a stretch.

It depends a little on how you define "one of the best". For me I'd say it means he's in the top 6 in enough stats/areas to be in that conversation. I'd say as well that I say he looks like one of the best, because the defence in front of him improves him. I don't necessarily mean that he is, objectively, one of the top keepers in this division.

Anyway, Max is:

3rd best save% this season.

4th for overall number of saves.

6th best for goals conceded.

7th best for stopping crosses.

Top 10 for most stats relevant to being a sweeper. Top 6 for one or two.

He's not up there for every stat, and not all stats indicate whether a goalkeeper in isolation is good/bad, but yeh he's putting in top 6/top 10 numbers in multiple categories.

https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/keepersadv/Championship-Stats

Edited April 1 by ExiledAjax

[redkev]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

When we are top-6 next season we can then judge how good he is!

Seriously, he’s a very capable and solid GK…importantly, trusted by his defence.

A very good defence generally and what a signing Dickie has been 

[Charlie BCFC]

2 hours ago, Crackers Corner said:

He has improved massively over last few months. Kicking is better and has kept us in several games 

Feel like his kicking has got better due to the areas he’s hitting. Now going shorter and doesn’t seem to be aiming for the touchline when he goes long which he used to do every time 

[IAmNick]

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It depends a little on how you define "one of the best". For me I'd say it means he's in the top 6 in enough stats/areas to be in that conversation. I'd say as well that I say he looks like one of the best, because the defence in front of him improves him. I don't necessarily mean that he is, objectively, one of the top keepers in this division.

Anyway, Max is:

3rd best save% this season.

4th for overall number of saves.

6th best for goals conceded.

7th best for stopping crosses.

Top 10 for most stats relevant to being a sweeper. Top 6 for one or two.

He's not up there for every stat, and not all stats indicate whether a goalkeeper in isolation is good/bad, but yeh he's putting in top 6/top 10 numbers in multiple categories.

https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/keepersadv/Championship-Stats

Caveat - all the "xg is nonsense" / "stats can prove anything" luddites can just skip ahead  

 

You're right of course - however, as I know you like your stats and xG, take a look at the expected column.

The post shot xG for Max shows he faces the 2nd lowest post shot xG (per shot on target) in the division. His xG against is actually slightly lower than you'd expect. Per 90m, he's mid table - 14th. In fact his (deep breath) Post shot xG minus goals allowed per 90m is 0.0. He's doing exactly as well as you'd expect.

He's good in other areas and for the record I think he's doing a great job this year and wouldn't be looking to upgrade, but he's doing as expected this year imo for a Championship keeper, and nothing remarkable (when it comes to shot stopping). Obviously there's more to being a keeper than that, and he does well there too.

If I've misread/understood anything please do correct me - as it gets kinda complex quite quickly!

Edited April 1 by IAmNick

[ExiledAjax]

16 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Caveat - all the "xg is nonsense" / "stats can prove anything" luddites can just skip ahead  

 

You're right of course - however, as I know you like your stats and xG, take a look at the expected column.

The post shot xG for Max shows he faces the 2nd lowest post shot xG (per shot on target) in the division. His xG against is actually slightly lower than you'd expect. Per 90m, he's mid table - 14th. In fact his (deep breath) Post shot xG minus goals allowed per 90m is 0.0. He's doing exactly as well as you'd expect.

He's good in other areas and for the record I think he's doing a great job this year and wouldn't be looking to upgrade, but he's doing as expected this year imo for a Championship keeper, and nothing remarkable (when it comes to shot stopping). Obviously there's more to being a keeper than that, and he does well there too.

If I've misread/understood anything please do correct me - as it gets kinda complex quite quickly!

Yes, I omitted the xG from my post as tbh I didn't fancy having the "xG is nonsense" conversation.

But, as you've brought it up.

He's doing exactly as well as can be expected given the specific amount of work he's being asked to do.

This is largely why I say the defence is helping him be good. That defence is what means he has faced the second lowest post shot xG. That defence is keeping his workload light and low. In my opinion that is allowing him the room to breath. He's facing shots that are easy to save - and he's saving quite a lot of them (74.2% of them in fact).

It's a fair criticism that he's not over-achieving but I think it is harsh to complain that he's doing what he needs to do. He's not doing anything remarkable - but he's not being asked to do anything remarkable.

Essentially, if the keeper is as good as his defence is, and that defence is itself quite good, and he isn't notably letting it down - which the numbers show he isn't - then he's a good enough keeper for that team.

Right?

I think we're both just saying the same thing and nodding agreement at each other aren't we!?

It does a get a bit mind-bending quite quickly but ultimately I'm happy with him being No.1 this season and next, and I don't think we need a new No.1 goalkeeper...the No.2 goalkeeper is a different conversation of course.

Edited April 1 by ExiledAjax

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, Red Billy said:

83 consecutive games? Wonder what the record is at city for consecutive games played? Anyone know?

If I had to guess I reckon it’d be quite high from the smaller squad / no sub days but would be interested to know!

[IAmNick]

24 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I think we're both just saying the same thing and nodding agreement at each other aren't we!?

 

Yeah I think we are mate. How boring for OTIB.

You're a **** - Phew, that's better  

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Caveat - all the "xg is nonsense" / "stats can prove anything" luddites can just skip ahead  

 

You're right of course - however, as I know you like your stats and xG, take a look at the expected column.

The post shot xG for Max shows he faces the 2nd lowest post shot xG (per shot on target) in the division. His xG against is actually slightly lower than you'd expect. Per 90m, he's mid table - 14th. In fact his (deep breath) Post shot xG minus goals allowed per 90m is 0.0. He's doing exactly as well as you'd expect.

He's good in other areas and for the record I think he's doing a great job this year and wouldn't be looking to upgrade, but he's doing as expected this year imo for a Championship keeper, and nothing remarkable (when it comes to shot stopping). Obviously there's more to being a keeper than that, and he does well there too.

If I've misread/understood anything please do correct me - as it gets kinda complex quite quickly!

I wish Wyscout did PSxG in the player summary stats I extract, a good measure for a keeper’s shot saving.

The save from Vardy that he tipped around the post was 0.80 PSxG.

 

[Mendip City]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I wish Wyscout did PSxG in the player summary stats I extract, a good measure for a keeper’s shot saving.

The save from Vardy that he tipped around the post was 0.80 PSxG.

 

I actually think he’s our most “trade-able” player right now…. I hope we don’t sell him but he’s a very modern type of keeper and wouldn’t be out of place in the top flight… or at least warming a bench there… IMHO 

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I wish Wyscout did PSxG in the player summary stats I extract, a good measure for a keeper’s shot saving.

The save from Vardy that he tipped around the post was 0.80 PSxG.

 

That does the 2nd one signify Dave?

2.46 but then 1.29.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That does the 2nd one signify Dave?

2.46 but then 1.29.

Xg and post-shot xg.

https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/a-new-way-to-measure-keepers-shot-stopping-post-shot-expected-goals/

[steveybadger]

2 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

Once again a lesson for all those quick to write off that what you see when a player has a bad game isn’t necessarily what you’ll get going forward. These players train full time and there’s every chance they’ll improve.

I guess we should say the same about the Manning too, I’m sure during those dreadful games he wasn’t thinking this is fine, surely he was looking for ways to Improve and this weekend we have.

I’m not saying he the messiah all of a sudden but we’re stuck with him at least until at least Christmas I’d guess, so here’s hoping. 

 

Look I still think it’s quite early to have a pop at Liam but in the interests of balance referring to him as ‘the Manning’ is a touch OTT too?

[Bristol Oil Services]

15 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

One of the best keepers in the Championship.

So will be sold before he gets to 200 150 appearances? 

[richwwtk]

12 hours ago, MarcusX said:

If I had to guess I reckon it’d be quite high from the smaller squad / no sub days but would be interested to know!

Agreed, I would guess someone like Tom Ritchie or Ray Cashley might hold the consecutive appearances record for City but no idea really.

A couple of years on from them, Rob Newman felt like a permanent fixture in my early days as a City fan.

[Red Billy]

On 02/04/2024 at 09:08, richwwtk said:

Agreed, I would guess someone like Tom Ritchie or Ray Cashley might hold the consecutive appearances record for City but no idea really.

A couple of years on from them, Rob Newman felt like a permanent fixture in my early days as a City fan.

Cant find anything online about consecutive games for players only for the fan Jerry Tocknell that had reached a thousand. 

[SecretSam]

On 02/04/2024 at 09:08, richwwtk said:

Rob Newman felt like a permanent fixture in my early days as a City fan.

Helped by the fact that he started when he was still in nappies, and he was so big nobody dared drop him. Plus he could play every single position, sometimes all in the same game...

[pride of the west]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

Helped by the fact that he started when he was still in nappies, and he was so big nobody dared drop him. Plus he could play every single position, sometimes all in the same game...

It's crazy he managed a testimonial with us and still managed a further 10 years as a pro thereafter 

[GrahamC]

He’s very good, isn’t he?

Top drawer again today, 3 clean sheets on the spin.

Well done to him.

[joe jordans teeth]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He’s very good, isn’t he?

Top drawer again today, 3 clean sheets on the spin.

Well done to him.

It’s worrying isn’t it,at this rate the amount of times he’s saving us he will be worth £50 million 

Edited April 6 by joe jordans teeth

[The Bard]

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He’s very good, isn’t he?

Top drawer again today, 3 clean sheets on the spin.

Well done to him.

But, but, but. He's not a top 6 championship keeper or whatever bullshit category people wish to invent.  

 

 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

But, but, but. He's not a top 6 championship keeper or whatever bullshit category people wish to invent.  

 

 

Players can evolve and get better. Especially Keepers. At 27 he's getting to his considered peak as a GK. 

 

[winsaw]

Max had been far and away our best player this season, another top performance today,

Amazing that some still don't rate him don't think there are many better keepers in the championship at the moment,

[Gazred]

21 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He’s very good, isn’t he?

Top drawer again today, 3 clean sheets on the spin.

Well done to him.

Pretty much single handedly (plus feet and his other hand) made us worth the point today.

Also been looking very strong on crosses and balls in of late.

Keep it up Max, good stuff.

[Supersonic Robin]

1 minute ago, winsaw said:

Max had been far and away our best player this season, another top performance today,

Amazing that some still don't rate him don't think there are many better keepers in the championship at the moment,

Dickie has been a long way ahead of O'Leary this season.

O'Leary has improved as of late and is currently performing well, but I think that's leading to some revisionist thinking about his less impressive performances earlier in the season.

[22A]

On 01/04/2024 at 21:12, Mendip City said:

I actually think he’s our most “trade-able” player right now…. I hope we don’t sell him but he’s a very modern type of keeper and wouldn’t be out of place in the top flight… or at least warming a bench there… IMHO 

Hopefully the last few games have added an extra 0 to his sale price.

[Slippin cider]

Bravo Maximus o millionus…

[Roger Red Hat]

Bournemouth looking for a new 'keeper apparently..

[Bazooka Joe]

Max has become a decent MOLkeeper.

Edited April 6 by Bazooka Joe

[Ian M]

Quote

We cannot include goalkeeper information, because goalkeeper’s who are typically positioned better than others will consistently have lower PS xG and their GSAA% will be deflated, despite the low PS xG value being a result of their quality positioning.

Could this explain his pretty low PSxG?

I feel like on double saves he often makes them look routine due to having fairly good awareness of his goalmouth?

[Davefevs]

FBC Pod - Lez - (paraphrased) Max was nothing special, the shots weren’t in the corner, were weak, or both. Lordy!

[elhombrecito]

That tip on to the bar, after leaping up from the initial save was special.

[And Its Smith]

Another superb display from Max today. What a season he is having. 

[Kibs]

6 months ago I’d have been happy to see him replaced and sat as our number two. Now I’m more concerned he’ll be one of the next ones off to better things in the summer! 

Delighted for him. Just goes to show how players can improve given the time and the opportunity, and how important consistent minutes are to help that development. 

[Ashton Fete]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

FBC Pod - Lez - (paraphrased) Max was nothing special, the shots weren’t in the corner, were weak, or both. Lordy!

That was very odd, I just took it that he was trying to be intentionally provocative for whatever reason. 

Max has been outstanding recently and BBC sport and Sky Sports certainly are singing his praises today!

[bcfcnick]

Such a calm influence as well and no doubt that helps our defenders. He's a massive reason why City have the fourth best defensive record in the league.  

[GrahamC]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

FBC Pod - Lez - (paraphrased) Max was nothing special, the shots weren’t in the corner, were weak, or both. Lordy!

Is he often a big drug user?

[Cardy]

That was as good a display today as I can ever remember from a City goalkeeper. Superb stuff from Max.

[Fredford89]

I remember when Nigel Pearson finally unburdened us from David Bentley there was a lot of doubt over this lad’s capabilities, I think over the season it would be fair to say Goalkeeper is the last position we need to be looking at when it comes to transfer priorities! Another great performance 

[Ashtongreight]

31 minutes ago, Fredford89 said:

I remember when Nigel Pearson finally unburdened us from David Bentley there was a lot of doubt over this lad’s capabilities, I think over the season it would be fair to say Goalkeeper is the last position we need to be looking at when it comes to transfer priorities! Another great performance 

Totally agree, better keeper, cost nothing, much lower wages, what’s not to like. Well done Max. 
 

Like most I had my doubts at first, and there has been a few dodgy spells along the way,  but now he’s more than proved himself and is improving all the time.
 

Max and Dickie are the two candidates for POTS for me.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Fredford89 said:

I remember when Nigel Pearson finally unburdened us from David Bentley there was a lot of doubt over this lad’s capabilities, I think over the season it would be fair to say Goalkeeper is the last position we need to be looking at when it comes to transfer priorities! Another great performance 

your memories not that good then. It's Daniel Bentley not Dave.

[CyderInACan]

6 hours ago, winsaw said:

Max had been far and away our best player this season, another top performance today,

Amazing that some still don't rate him don't think there are many better keepers in the championship at the moment,

I think it’s one of those where he was “trusted” and you could see his development was always going to be bumpy, especially as we’re in the brutal environment of the championship. And he’s proved that he’s more than capable. 
 

Very well done Max. COYR.