SOTC

[PHILINFRANCE]

5 hours ago, petehinton said:

FWIW there’s also no doubt in my mind Manning would be managing in the championship right now, if we hadn’t have come in for him. But that’s a moot point. 

I am curious.

Are you suggesting that Manning ‘would be managing in the Championship right now’ *EVEN* had we not come in for him or, conversely, that he would not have been had we not come in for him?

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I am curious.

Are you suggesting that Manning ‘would be managing in the Championship right now’ *EVEN* had we not come in for him or, conversely, that he would not have been had we not come in for him?

Suspect Swansea would’ve taken him when they sacked Duff. 

[The Coach]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Suspect Swansea would’ve taken him when they sacked Duff. 

Which I still believe would have been the better fit for Manning to go there.

[Shauntaylor85]

Genuinely tried to listen and I did fall asleep! Not joking! What minute did he talk about summer plans and the 3 targets? 

[Robbored]

6 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

He had the same injury and the same "repair" as Rob Atkinson, a week apart. They were both told they would be ready for pre season and that it's a proven operation that has a great success rate.

I thought Atkinson had an ACL and Bell a serious hamstring injury?

[petehinton]

7 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

He had the same injury and the same "repair" as Rob Atkinson, a week apart. They were both told they would be ready for pre season and that it's a proven operation that has a great success rate.

That’s good news if so & a relief! Had heard otherwise. 

[GrahamC]

9 hours ago, Tomo said:

I thought he was referring to James being nervous...not King 

He was.

[Steve Watts]

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I thought Atkinson had an ACL and Bell a serious hamstring injury?

Atkinson did his hamstring during his recovery, just after (or whilst, I don't recall) making an appearance for the under 21s.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Steve Watts said:

Atkinson did his hamstring during his recovery, just after (or whilst, I don't recall) making an appearance for the under 21s.

I didn’t know that Atkinson had played at all. I thought he was still undergoing rehab.

[Steve Watts]

21 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I didn’t know that Atkinson had played at all. I thought he was still undergoing rehab.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-defender-suffers-fresh-9097813

[Roe]

I found the interspersed clips of radio commentators shouting incredibly annoying

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

I didn’t know that Atkinson had played at all. I thought he was still undergoing rehab.

It was on the official site, always a good place to find out information..

[George Rs]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Ditto.

I’m gonna sit here and see what happens, but first thoughts are we are recruiting for two set-ups

3421 - two no10s no wide men

4231 / 4213 - one no10 two wide men

Need a winger, pace and power.

+++++

Undoubtedly Owers hears things!

Smart thing to do, doesn’t want to recruit himself into a hole and found out in october that the formation isn’t working. 

Helps that you can essentially switch between the two with just one sub. And to an extent we are relatively weak in real consistent quality on the wings. 

Sykes looked very good at the start of the year but didn’t finish the season all that well, Mehmeti is… Mehmeti and Bell is currently injured so we don’t know how he’ll come back. And either way that’s only 3 wingers (I don’t include cornick). Every other position we currently have at least 2 per, so it makes sense imo to go for another. 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, George Rs said:

Smart thing to do, doesn’t want to recruit himself into a hole and found out in october that the formation isn’t working. 

Helps that you can essentially switch between the two with just one sub. And to an extent we are relatively weak in real consistent quality on the wings. 

Sykes looked very good at the start of the year but didn’t finish the season all that well, Mehmeti is… Mehmeti and Bell is currently injured so we don’t know how he’ll come back. And either way that’s only 3 wingers (I don’t include cornick). Every other position we currently have at least 2 per, so it makes sense imo to go for another. 

No consideration as to the cost of having that flexibility then?

[George Rs]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No consideration as to the cost of having that flexibility then?

Does it have to be extremely cost worthy? I’d argue we’ve been pretty flexible the last couple of years anyway. 

Sykes, Naismith, Mccrorie, Roberts, Gardener-Hickman and Pringy can all play a number of positions which allows us to have a smaller squad.

But on the downside it means we can suffer setbacks a lot quicker if injuries build up. 

Very much a balancing act, one that I wouldn’t be able to do but I feel like it can be financially viable without breaking the bank. 

The question to ask i feel is which is better: Squad flexibility or Higher quality specialists? 

[Port Said Red]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No consideration as to the cost of having that flexibility then?

I do think we have been pretty flexible during games, nothing spectacular, but little tweaks here and there as the games roll on. We already have some players that can allow for that.

I haven't heard the SOTC yet, when he talks about a winger, does he mean an out and out attacking player, or more of an alternative to Pring that plays more advanced but can cover back?

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 hours ago, Tim Monaghan said:

I keep saying it. It’s going to be a bigger summer than people think. 
 

I’ll save you all the bother >>  

That could be taken one of two ways.

It could if we are being positive mean some strong icing of the quite well done cake ie a bit more depth and proven/rising quality in key positions to build on a solid base.

Or it could mean an overhaul, another revamp- with multiple ins and outs, thereby risking inevitably setting us back in respect of timeframes or even sending us backwards undoing hard won gains.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I do think we have been pretty flexible during games, nothing spectacular, but little tweaks here and there as the games roll on. We already have some players that can allow for that.

I haven't heard the SOTC yet, when he talks about a winger, does he mean an out and out attacking player, or more of an alternative to Pring that plays more advanced but can cover back?

We have, it wasn’t a criticism of what has happened, more a “watch this space” in terms of what it means to squad size, balance, cost, etc.

Ed Hadwin suggested a pacy winger to LM, LM replied using the term “powerful”.

 

[Davefevs]

Conway’s bit made the BBC Championship page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c6pyy68dqpqo

[W-S-M Seagull]

51 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Conway’s bit made the BBC Championship page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c6pyy68dqpqo

"It's obviously not ideal for me. Tommy's got a decision to make," 

[stephenkibby.]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

"It's obviously not ideal for me. Tommy's got a decision to make," 

Jesus, you do have it bad.

[Bedred31]

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

I think his positioning of the decision for Conway was smart.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Bedred31 said:

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

Or get a signing on fee and more wages elsewhere 

[fgrsimon]

On 13/05/2024 at 20:24, W-S-M Seagull said:

Mebude was brought in with the intention of purchasing him in the summer. So I think as that didn't work out we're just looking for a replacement for him.

A replacement for Mebude shouldn't be too hard to find. Hell I could even put myself forward! I'm 60 but reckon I could manage 30 mins on the pitch, 20 of which were spent running around like a headless chicken...

[Jacki]

I thought Manning was spot on about Conway too. It sounds like we’ve made him a good offer, the ball is in his court and it’s not ideal that he hasn’t signed the contract. All of those things are just common sense.

I find the whole Conway situation disappointing if I’m honest. With Scott and Semenyo, you could see that they were a clear class above and that a move to the Premier League was inevitable. I just don’t think that’s the case with Conway yet. He’s a good player, but as Manning said when he talked about a player’s journey going quicker than that of the club, it doesn’t feel like he’s outgrown us yet in the way the other two had. Therefore, I think that signing for us would be good for his continued development as a player.

I suspect that his agent has asked for silly wages though so I imagine he’ll be on his way. I do get it, and understand he will be able to get a better deal elsewhere. I also understand more than most that football is an extremely fragile career. I’ll just be disappointed to see him go when he’s still got so much improving to do and BCFC would be a great place for him to do it. 

[Robbored]

Just now, Jacki said:

I thought Manning was spot on about Conway too. It sounds like we’ve made him a good offer, the ball is in his court and it’s not ideal that he hasn’t signed the contract. All of those things are just common sense.

I find the whole Conway situation disappointing if I’m honest. With Scott and Semenyo, you could see that they were a clear class above and that a move to the Premier League was inevitable. I just don’t think that’s the case with Conway yet. He’s a good player, but as Manning said when he talked about a player’s journey going quicker than that of the club, it doesn’t feel like he’s outgrown us yet in the way the other two had. Therefore, I think that signing for us would be good for his continued development as a player.

You’re spot on Jackie.

There aren’t many other Championship teams that Conway would get into let alone a PL outfit. He’s still a young guy who’s learning his craft and another season or two at City would really improve his game, particularly his finishing.

If he hits the 20 goal mark next season then the PL will take note and his value will increase significantly.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

You’re spot on Jackie.

There aren’t many other Championship teams that Conway would get into let alone a PL outfit. He’s still a young guy who’s learning his craft and another season or two at City would really improve his game, particularly his finishing.

If he hits the 20 goal mark next season then the PL will take note and his value will increase significantly.

I would say pretty much every Champ club would take TC and he’d be a key member of their squad, just like he is here.  And for any PL clubs circling, he wouldn’t be first choice, but he’d be around the squad.

The issue is the here and now Robbo.  Because he only has a year left on his contract.  So if he won’t sign his deal, we are backed into a corner:

• sell him now
• keep him, hope he signs an extension at some point
• keep him and get compensation next summer (which if he went to Scotland or Europe would be £300k)

We don’t have the luxury of waiting for him to get 20 goals next season, because his value won’t be dependent on goals, but length of contract (diminishing).

I’ve no idea how this will play out.

But one thing we have to be better at is tying down our home-grown players on longer deals, and just as importantly, regularly extending them.  Especially those players who will undoubtedly have clubs sniffing around.  Semenyo, Scott’s sales in part driven by remaining contract length, now Conway.  We got good money for both the AS’s, but if we have to sell this summer i doubt we will get top-dollar for Conway.

 

[FNQ]

10 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

Not so sure thats how TC may see it… If we are serious about bringing in a powerful #9 then it’s more than likely that Tommy will not play as many minutes as he has this season and will be left fighting for the scraps with Nahki and perhaps SPH. So personally I still think that he will eventually leave, the club though quite rightly want him signed up to facilitate the best possible sale price, but that’s certainly not Tommy’s biggest priority.

[Kid in the Riot]

18 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Not so sure thats how TC may see it… If we are serious about bringing in a powerful #9 then it’s more than likely that Tommy will not play as many minutes as he has this season and will be left fighting for the scraps with Nahki and perhaps SPH. So personally I still think that he will eventually leave, the club though quite rightly want him signed up to facilitate the best possible sale price, but that’s certainly not Tommy’s biggest priority.

If TC is that good then he shouldn't be worried about some competition coming in. And if he thinks he can move to a "bigger" club then fine, but he isn't going to be a guaranteed starter at a higher level, far from it. 

FWIW, I don't think he's signing a new deal so interesting to see where he ends up, as I wouldn't have thought there'll be a mad rush for his signature.

[Roe]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

• But one thing we have to be better at is tying down our home-grown players on longer deals, and just as importantly, regularly extending them.  Especially those players who will undoubtedly have clubs sniffing around.  Semenyo, Scott’s sales in part driven by remaining contract length, now Conway.  We got good money for both the AS’s, but if we have to sell this summer i doubt we will get top-dollar for Conway.

 

I see people say this a lot but I'm not sure what else the club are supposed to do. You can't force someone to sign a contract, so what do you do? Not play Conway at all going back how far before he signs?

How many other players would you have to sign on longer deals in case they develop well?

It's just an inevitability of football that every club in the world faces.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

You’re spot on Jackie.

There aren’t many other Championship teams that Conway would get into let alone a PL outfit. He’s still a young guy who’s learning his craft and another season or two at City would really improve his game, particularly his finishing.

If he hits the 20 goal mark next season then the PL will take note and his value will increase significantly.

Would we? Manning made a lot about Conway changing the way he plays to fit the way Manning wants to play. Would Tommy consider that the best thing for himself? Or would he rather play for a team that plays to his strengths? A team that actually provides him with chances? Tommy is more than capable of getting 20. I'm not sure we are capable of providing him with 20 goals tho. 

If you're Tommy Conway, would you be rushing to sign a contract when we've been saying for months we want to sign another striker? Knowing we only play with one striker? 

The reality is Tommy could sign a new contract and then find himself on the bench. 

[cidered abroad]

25 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Not so sure thats how TC may see it… If we are serious about bringing in a powerful #9 then it’s more than likely that Tommy will not play as many minutes as he has this season and will be left fighting for the scraps with Nahki and perhaps SPH. So personally I still think that he will eventually leave, the club though quite rightly want him signed up to facilitate the best possible sale price, but that’s certainly not Tommy’s biggest priority.

If we bring in a younger, more active target version of Chris Martin, then Conway as the most forward of the rest of the attack, should get a very good number of goals.

Benefits us while he is here and helps him to get the move he dreams of to a Prem team that isn't fighting for staying up all the time.

[Robbored]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I would say pretty much every Champ club would take TC and he’d be a key member of their squad, just like he is here.  And for any PL clubs circling, he wouldn’t be first choice, but he’d be around the squad.

The issue is the here and now Robbo.  Because he only has a year left on his contract.  So if he won’t sign his deal, we are backed into a corner:

• sell him now
• keep him, hope he signs an extension at some point
• keep him and get compensation next summer (which if he went to Scotland or Europe would be £300k)

We don’t have the luxury of waiting for him to get 20 goals next season, because his value won’t be dependent on goals, but length of contract (diminishing).

I’ve no idea how this will play out.

But one thing we have to be better at is tying down our home-grown players on longer deals, and just as importantly, regularly extending them.  Especially those players who will undoubtedly have clubs sniffing around.  Semenyo, Scott’s sales in part driven by remaining contract length, now Conway.  We got good money for both the AS’s, but if we have to sell this summer i doubt we will get top-dollar for Conway.

 

Dave - I completely understand the perfectly sensible points that you’ve made but those aren’t my main point.

I’m in the same camp as Manning although he was far more subtle in his phrasing than me. I seriously don’t think that Conway is anywhere near as good as many posters on here seem to think and to me he’s overrated. Imo another season or two at City will significantly develop his game should he sign a new deal.

Tbh - from a playing perspective should Conway allow his contract to run down it wouldn’t bother me as much as it did when Semenyo was sold. On many occasions last season City really missed Semenyo’s his pace and power.I can’t see myself thinking that about Conway should he move on.

[Robbored]

14 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Would we? Manning made a lot about Conway changing the way he plays to fit the way Manning wants to play. Would Tommy consider that the best thing for himself? Or would he rather play for a team that plays to his strengths? A team that actually provides him with chances? Tommy is more than capable of getting 20. I'm not sure we are capable of providing him with 20 goals tho. 

If you're Tommy Conway, would you be rushing to sign a contract when we've been saying for months we want to sign another striker? Knowing we only play with one striker? 

The reality is Tommy could sign a new contract and then find himself on the bench. 

No doubt Conway has improved under Manning. We can all see that.

However - I’m not sure that with the incoming signings the summer that Manning will stick to the one up top strategy. He’ll have a full preseason with an improved squad and it wouldn’t surprise me if he changes to two up top - we’ve seen how one up top has kinda suited the players he’s had but with another striker incoming plus any other additions (Twine?) I can see him changing things to maximise the strengths in his squad.

[Silvio Dante]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But one thing we have to be better at is tying down our home-grown players on longer deals, and just as importantly, regularly extending them.  Especially those players who will undoubtedly have clubs sniffing around.  Semenyo, Scott’s sales in part driven by remaining contract length, now Conway.  We got good money for both the AS’s, but if we have to sell this summer i doubt we will get top-dollar for Conway.

 

Just on that last bit Dave, there is a degree of what the club could reasonably have done. If I take the last four/five players that have come through (either having been direct from academy or elsewhere) that have played significant minutes then it’s the following:

Scott - Signs start of 2020, contract signed March 2021, improved 4 year deal signed August 2021. New deal offered in Jan 2023

Semenyo - Signs 2017, Turns pro Jan 2018, 4 year deal with 1 year option signed June 2019

Bell - First 3 year deal April 2021 (I think). Signs 3 year deal July 2022, new 3 year deal August 2023

Conway - 3 year deal July 2022 (played 11 times at that point) new deal offered August 2023

With all of those bar the exception of Semenyo we’ve regularly offered new deals to try and keep them here. Ironically the one we did tie down was Semenyo and his probable real breakthrough coincided with the final years of his deal. Scott’s progress was such that he outgrew us quickly so was never signing but I’m not sure what else we could have done. Kind of ditto Conway - we’ve offered a new deal 12 months into a three year deal and most players won’t want 4-5 year deals as that loses them the whip hand in negotiations.

FWIW I think he’s going. I think last summer was a big deal there - not just seeing what his best mate did but also the relative lack of ambition shown - why commit if the club aren’t investing? If he stays it will be because the club do back Liam heavily and he sees an upside, but there’s a reason that deal hadn’t been signed for a year. And I do think he gets in most championship teams squads - I see him probably being a starter for a side in or around the top six.

He’ll have offers. But dispassionately, his record bar penalties isn’t great this season (and for me, not reflective of his true worth), and that, together with the contract, means I think we won’t get a great deal.

[JBFC II]

44 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Would we? Manning made a lot about Conway changing the way he plays to fit the way Manning wants to play. Would Tommy consider that the best thing for himself? Or would he rather play for a team that plays to his strengths? A team that actually provides him with chances? Tommy is more than capable of getting 20. I'm not sure we are capable of providing him with 20 goals tho. 

If you're Tommy Conway, would you be rushing to sign a contract when we've been saying for months we want to sign another striker? Knowing we only play with one striker? 

The reality is Tommy could sign a new contract and then find himself on the bench. 

If Conway wants to go to the top of the game then that would be exactly the reason why he should want to sign a new deal.

Make the manager view you as the main striker, even if one is brought in. 

He can't expect to make it in the premier league if he jumps ship from a mid table championship side as soon as he experiences some competition 

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, Jacki said:

I thought Manning was spot on about Conway too. It sounds like we’ve made him a good offer, the ball is in his court and it’s not ideal that he hasn’t signed the contract. All of those things are just common sense.

I find the whole Conway situation disappointing if I’m honest. With Scott and Semenyo, you could see that they were a clear class above and that a move to the Premier League was inevitable. I just don’t think that’s the case with Conway yet. He’s a good player, but as Manning said when he talked about a player’s journey going quicker than that of the club, it doesn’t feel like he’s outgrown us yet in the way the other two had. Therefore, I think that signing for us would be good for his continued development as a player.

I suspect that his agent has asked for silly wages though so I imagine he’ll be on his way. I do get it, and understand he will be able to get a better deal elsewhere. I also understand more than most that football is an extremely fragile career. I’ll just be disappointed to see him go when he’s still got so much improving to do and BCFC would be a great place for him to do it. 

I think it’s a combination of his agent, family, and having an insight into the new life his pal (Scott) now has after he moved up to the prem & all that entails. 

[mozo]

I think for Conway, joining a Bournemouth type club would be a risk. He's not guaranteed minutes, and at that level, being fit and hard working isn't enough. You need precision, and his shooting isn't consistently there. I think back to Armstrong joining Southampton and struggling for minutes. He was lethal in the Championship. 

From what Manning said in a previous interview, where he said Conway needs good advice from his agent. Its clear why ideas are lodging in Tommy's mind.

I think the best case scenario now is that we make an astute signing for a goalscorer, and that SPH has a cracking preseason and can contribute as the deputy.

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

If Conway wants to go to the top of the game then that would be exactly the reason why he should want to sign a new deal.

Make the manager view you as the main striker, even if one is brought in. 

He can't expect to make it in the premier league if he jumps ship from a mid table championship side as soon as he experiences some competition 

I think you're looking at this through the lens of what's best for us. 

At this current moment if you're Tommy Conway I'm not sure you'd think that staying here would be the best route to get to the top of the game. 

Why would you want to stay here to prove to the manager you're the main striker? When he could move easily to a top 6 team and earn more and have a bigger chance of getting to the premier league?

Tommy is at the very best stagnating here because we are stagnating. 

[Natchfever]

12 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

Why is that the smart move?

Genuine question as his form and therefore attractiveness went south last season.

[W-S-M Seagull]

12 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Why is that the smart move?

Genuine question as his form and therefore attractiveness went south last season.

Even with bringing Twine in, we struggled to provide Conway with chances. 

Tommy can't score chances if he's not provided with them. 

I've said this lots of times but if you put him in a team like Coventry then he scores 15-20 easily. 

Right now Tommy can potentially move to a lower premier league club or a top 6 side or go north to Scotland and get a huge pay rise. 

I'm not entirely sure those options would be there in 12 months time if us and Tommy have another similar season.

I think Tommy has done the smart thing already for himself by giving himself time to assess all of these options. 

We all would love Tommy to stay but I think our hand is quite weak at this point. 

[Bristol Rob]

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Or get a signing on fee and more wages elsewhere 

Are you suggesting we wouldn't offer a loyalty bonus and champion low wages?

[Natchfever]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

Are you suggesting we wouldn't offer a loyalty bonus and champion low wages?

I suspect any interested party would have more money to offer.

[Paul G]

On 13/05/2024 at 20:17, Mr Popodopolous said:

The possible wide player target was a new one.

Cornick, Sykes

Bell, Mehmeti

Benarous can play along the midfield too.

Clearly quality for the right price shouldn't be dismissed but is it a priority position- who goes?

Midfield, Knight, Bird, TGH, Williams just feels one too light although Naismith can play there too..feels like we are taking chances again with depth, versatility etc.

Cornick goes imo

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Are you suggesting we wouldn't offer a loyalty bonus and champion low wages?

We may consider that we've made him a terrific offer by our standards but that offer is probably well less than what he can get elsewhere. That's the reality here. 

Our only advantage is Tommy being a fan and his family living close by. But would you accept 5-10k a week less just for those things? 

[Natchfever]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We may consider that we've made him a terrific offer by our standards but that offer is probably well less than what he can get elsewhere. That's the reality here. 

Our only advantage is Tommy being a fan and his family living close by. But would you accept 5-10k a week less just for those things? 

I cant imagine anyone close to Tommy suggesting he stays,  unless third party interest of note isnt actually there, or a mutually acceptable sale trigger fee can be agreed in return for a whopping loyalty bonus.

[JBFC II]

49 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think you're looking at this through the lens of what's best for us. 

At this current moment if you're Tommy Conway I'm not sure you'd think that staying here would be the best route to get to the top of the game. 

Why would you want to stay here to prove to the manager you're the main striker? When he could move easily to a top 6 team and earn more and have a bigger chance of getting to the premier league?

Tommy is at the very best stagnating here because we are stagnating. 

On the flip side would moving to a top half side, where he is less likely to be the main striker, actually help him get that step up?

If I were him I'd be fighting to be the main striker here, before moving too quickly up the ladder. Would he have a better chance of playing Premier league football by being 2nd choice at a Middlesbrough or west brom rather than being first choice here? I'm not sure. 

I wouldn't say he's stagnated either, he's a better player now than he was 12 months ago.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

I think it’s a combination of his agent, family, and having an insight into the new life his pal (Scott) now has after he moved up to the prem & all that entails. 

The interesting thing is that Scott has been warming the bench for Bournemouth and in fairness he stood out for us a lot more than Conway does. The jump is huge. Conway needs a standout season whether with us or elsewhere before he can even think about getting EPL starts.

[Numero Uno]

52 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Even with bringing Twine in, we struggled to provide Conway with chances. 

Tommy can't score chances if he's not provided with them. 

I've said this lots of times but if you put him in a team like Coventry then he scores 15-20 easily. 

Right now Tommy can potentially move to a lower premier league club or a top 6 side or go north to Scotland and get a huge pay rise. 

I'm not entirely sure those options would be there in 12 months time if us and Tommy have another similar season.

I think Tommy has done the smart thing already for himself by giving himself time to assess all of these options. 

We all would love Tommy to stay but I think our hand is quite weak at this point. 

I look at Conway and on the basis he may want to step up a level what does he bring to the party currently that you would need in the Prem? Blistering pace? No. Outstanding movement? Good but Prem standard? Hold up play? Definitely not. Great technique? Not seeing that. Finishing? Again, good at our level (he does miss a few) but Prem standard, not sure about that.

He needs to work on a number of things to get there, the only question is whether that’s with us or elsewhere. If a nailed on top 6 Champ side wants him (only three or four of those) they will be expecting instant results.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Roe said:

I see people say this a lot but I'm not sure what else the club are supposed to do. You can't force someone to sign a contract, so what do you do? Not play Conway at all going back how far before he signs?

How many other players would you have to sign on longer deals in case they develop well?

It's just an inevitability of football that every club in the world faces.

No, you can’t, but you can tie them in for longer, earlier.  An element of risk, but I’m only talking about the real stars.  I’ll reply further in Silvio’s post below.

There is some risk, I accept that.

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Dave - I completely understand the perfectly sensible points that you’ve made but those aren’t my main point.

I’m in the same camp as Manning although he was far more subtle in his phrasing than me. I seriously don’t think that Conway is anywhere near as good as many posters on here seem to think and to me he’s overrated. Imo another season or two at City will significantly develop his game should he sign a new deal.

Tbh - from a playing perspective should Conway allow his contract to run down it wouldn’t bother me as much as it did when Semenyo was sold. On many occasions last season City really missed Semenyo’s his pace and power.I can’t see myself thinking that about Conway should he move on.

I don’t think Manning’s words reflect his true thoughts.  He’s just trying to be smart to get an early outcome, whichever way that falls.  He’s probably managing fans expectations too if he leaves, ie trying to play down his importance to us.

He’s probably our most valuable asset, transfer fee wise this summer.  Regardless of yours or my view on his ability.

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

No doubt Conway has improved under Manning. We can all see that.

However - I’m not sure that with the incoming signings the summer that Manning will stick to the one up top strategy. He’ll have a full preseason with an improved squad and it wouldn’t surprise me if he changes to two up top - we’ve seen how one up top has kinda suited the players he’s had but with another striker incoming plus any other additions (Twine?) I can see him changing things to maximise the strengths in his squad.

Has he improved?  I’d say Manning’s system has stifled Tommy.

He's given no indication of moving away from one forward, and he’s been asked that specifically.

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Just on that last bit Dave, there is a degree of what the club could reasonably have done. If I take the last four/five players that have come through (either having been direct from academy or elsewhere) that have played significant minutes then it’s the following:

Scott - Signs start of 2020, contract signed March 2021, improved 4 year deal signed August 2021. New deal offered in Jan 2023

Semenyo - Signs 2017, Turns pro Jan 2018, 4 year deal with 1 year option signed June 2019

Bell - First 3 year deal April 2021 (I think). Signs 3 year deal July 2022, new 3 year deal August 2023

Conway - 3 year deal July 2022 (played 11 times at that point) new deal offered August 2023

With all of those bar the exception of Semenyo we’ve regularly offered new deals to try and keep them here. Ironically the one we did tie down was Semenyo and his probable real breakthrough coincided with the final years of his deal. Scott’s progress was such that he outgrew us quickly so was never signing but I’m not sure what else we could have done. Kind of ditto Conway - we’ve offered a new deal 12 months into a three year deal and most players won’t want 4-5 year deals as that loses them the whip hand in negotiations.

FWIW I think he’s going. I think last summer was a big deal there - not just seeing what his best mate did but also the relative lack of ambition shown - why commit if the club aren’t investing? If he stays it will be because the club do back Liam heavily and he sees an upside, but there’s a reason that deal hadn’t been signed for a year. And I do think he gets in most championship teams squads - I see him probably being a starter for a side in or around the top six.

He’ll have offers. But dispassionately, his record bar penalties isn’t great this season (and for me, not reflective of his true worth), and that, together with the contract, means I think we won’t get a great deal.

Thanks for doing the contract digging.  At its simplest we have Semenyo and Scott 4 year deals rather than 3 year deals, and we reaped a fantastic fee for Scott and a pretty decent one for Semenyo.

That extra year for Conway (and Bell) would’ve given us more bargaining power.

[Sleepy1968]

10 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

A replacement for Mebude shouldn't be too hard to find. Hell I could even put myself forward! I'm 60 but reckon I could manage 30 mins on the pitch, 20 of which were spent running around like a headless chicken...

You wouldn't even have to avoid being in a position to take a pass with noone wanting to pass to you. Easy money.

[RedRoss]

Like most contract issues. I guarantee it's 80% down to money.

Fans always put far too much effort and emotion trying to work out why a player isn't committing to a new contract. Especially when its a good player that's come through the academy. Of course there will be other factors i.e stepping up (new league) or better chances of progressing or style of play, new manager, fresh challenge ect but mostly it'll be money.

I don't blame TC, from his perspective I can see pros/cons of him staying or leaving. If he's set on moving he needs to decide because from our perspective we need to move on and maximise the most from his exit. I'm glad LM said what he did, I hope behind the scenes we've set a firm date on his decision and then look at offers for him.

Edited May 15 by RedRoss

[chinapig]

42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Has he improved?  I’d say Manning’s system has stifled Tommy.

Exactly. The lone striker role doesn't maximise Tommy's potential, especially when he gets limited support and service.

Wasn't he told that we would be getting behind the defence to supply him with pull backs? How much sign has there been of that?

Unless there is a change in Manning's approach I wouldn't blame Tommy for looking for a club that will play to his strengths.

[Steve Watts]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

No doubt Conway has improved under Manning. We can all see that.

However - I’m not sure that with the incoming signings the summer that Manning will stick to the one up top strategy. He’ll have a full preseason with an improved squad and it wouldn’t surprise me if he changes to two up top - we’ve seen how one up top has kinda suited the players he’s had but with another striker incoming plus any other additions (Twine?) I can see him changing things to maximise the strengths in his squad.

OK, I'll bite.  On what basis do you think Manning has improved his game?  His impact has been massively reduced due to Manning's tactics, which do not suit Tommy.  

I also don't see any indication that he might be about to change those tactics.  What leads you to think he might?

[MarcusX]

6 hours ago, Robbored said:

You’re spot on Jackie.

There aren’t many other Championship teams that Conway would get into let alone a PL outfit. He’s still a young guy who’s learning his craft and another season or two at City would really improve his game, particularly his finishing.

If he hits the 20 goal mark next season then the PL will take note and his value will increase significantly.

I dont think there's any guarentee that another season or two at City will improve him. He's got worse under Manning IMO because we don't play to his strengths. I think he'd get in half the teams in this league, and if went somewhere that played to his style he'd improve.

I can't see him hitting 20 goals in our team, the way we've played this season. That style may change next season

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I look at Conway and on the basis he may want to step up a level what does he bring to the party currently that you would need in the Prem? Blistering pace? No. Outstanding movement? Good but Prem standard? Hold up play? Definitely not. Great technique? Not seeing that. Finishing? Again, good at our level (he does miss a few) but Prem standard, not sure about that.

He needs to work on a number of things to get there, the only question is whether that’s with us or elsewhere. If a nailed on top 6 Champ side wants him (only three or four of those) they will be expecting instant results.

Or Rangers maybe.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Natchfever said:

Or Rangers maybe.

Quite possibly but if you have ambition you are using the SPL as a stepping stone, no different from the Championship. The problem there is the lower end of that league is of League 1 standard (just look at the previous clubs of the players) and scoring tap-ins against some of those sides won’t improve his game to the level needed imo. I look at Rabbi Matondo (huge stand out at Academy level) who was considered the next bright young thing and, I could be proven totally wrong, wonder how close joining Rangers has put him to Prem clubs circling?

[KegCity]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Quite possibly but if you have ambition you are using the SPL as a stepping stone, no different from the Championship. The problem there is the lower end of that league is of League 1 standard (just look at the previous clubs of the players) and scoring tap-ins against some of those sides won’t improve his game to the level needed imo. I look at Rabbi Matondo (huge stand out at Academy level) who was considered the next bright young thing and, I could be proven totally wrong, wonder how close joining Rangers has put him to Prem clubs circling?

He would be getting to play in the Champions League next season if he went to Celtic or Rangers. Going to one of those two would be a step up.

[Natchfever]

22 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Quite possibly but if you have ambition you are using the SPL as a stepping stone, no different from the Championship. The problem there is the lower end of that league is of League 1 standard (just look at the previous clubs of the players) and scoring tap-ins against some of those sides won’t improve his game to the level needed imo. I look at Rabbi Matondo (huge stand out at Academy level) who was considered the next bright young thing and, I could be proven totally wrong, wonder how close joining Rangers has put him to Prem clubs circling?

Rangers an obvious step up from us though, with an enhanced chance of a full cap.

[Robbored]

“Has he improved?  I’d say Manning’s system has stifled Tommy”

In terms of Conway developing as a striker Manning has certainly had a significant effect by highlighting what runs he can make, what spaces to look for and how to utilising them - whether or no the ball reached him is down to Mannings style and/or his teammates not playing him in.

[The Coach]

If Tommy was going to sign a new deal I think he would have done it by now. Therefore firmly believe he will be gone this summer or he will run down his contract next year. 

I can’t see a PL club coming for him so it’s going to have to be a sideways step to another Championship club. Unless a side like Rangers want him.

If I’m Tommy. I personally wouldn’t sign an extension. It’s become apparent Manning isn’t playing to Tommy’s strength’s so he has justification to want to leave. Even a sideways step to another championship club that can get more out of him may support Tommy’s career to get into the PL. 

[Kid in the Riot]

34 minutes ago, KegCity said:

He would be getting to play in the Champions League next season if he went to Celtic or Rangers. Going to one of those two would be a step up.

CL qualification rounds, if it's Rangers. And Scottish clubs have proven themselves to be very bad at qualifying in those preliminary rounds. 

Also, as from 2025-26 season Scotland will lose its auto qualification spot to the CL - to the Czech Republic. 

 

[KegCity]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

CL qualification rounds, if it's Rangers. And Scottish clubs have proven themselves to be very bad at qualifying in those preliminary rounds. 

Also, as from 2025-26 season Scotland will lose its auto qualification spot to the CL - to the Czech Republic. 

 

If they fail to qualify do they drop to the Europa League?

[Carey 6]

I really rate Conway, I expected a bit more from him this season though. 

I'm hopeful of him staying but I don't see it happening.

I only recall a couple of occasions where a contract offer has been on the table for a long time and that was Reid & Scott, neither ended up signing.

Am I missing anyone who we waited on to sign for a while before they eventually did? I can't think of any. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

“Has he improved?  I’d say Manning’s system has stifled Tommy”

In terms of Conway developing as a striker Manning has certainly had a significant effect by highlighting what runs he can make, what spaces to look for and how to utilising them - whether or no the ball reached him is down to Mannings style and/or his teammates not playing him in.

Do you not think he’d learned a lot of that already, or under Jason Euell.

Tommy admitted himself that most of the work had been done on learning Manning’s defensive / without the ball stuff, so I’m not sure how true your comment is!

[Kid in the Riot]

34 minutes ago, KegCity said:

He would be getting to play in the Champions League next season if he went to Celtic or Rangers. Going to one of those two would be a step up.

CL qualification rounds, if it's Rangers. And Scottish clubs have proven themselves to be very bad at qualifying in those preliminary rounds. 

Also, as from 2025-26 season Scotland will lose its auto qualification spot to the CL - to the Czech Republic. 

 

[Robbored]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Do you not think he’d learned a lot of that already, or under Jason Euell.

Tommy admitted himself that most of the work had been done on learning Manning’s defensive / without the ball stuff, so I’m not sure how true your comment is!

He also said how helpful Manning had been in advising him on his  positional game and where he’d be the most effective which was pretty much in the middle of the box.

Seems like six of one and half a dozen of the other………

[Silvio Dante]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

Thanks for doing the contract digging.  At its simplest we have Semenyo and Scott 4 year deals rather than 3 year deals, and we reaped a fantastic fee for Scott and a pretty decent one for Semenyo.

That extra year for Conway (and Bell) would’ve given us more bargaining power.

At its simplest yes, but there are a few key points here for me:

- Semenyo was still on his original deal and with 18 months left. It’s not a dissimilar situation to Conway in terms of stage of contract at the time it looks like he’s leaving. At the time he had two years left he’d scored 2 championship goals (remember the “Semenyo is not a striker”) thread. Although I always liked him, I can equally see there wasn’t a compelling reason to extend before 21-22 (particularly as we were still in Covid) and it was just that his explosion came at an inopportune time in respect of his contract.

So, Semenyo - I’m not sure it did give us bargaining power over that we do over Conway. The original deal was unusually long for an 18 year old and on a Sod’s Law basis, had we given him a “standard” 3 year deal we may have renewed and had him on a longer deal when Bournemouth came in.

- Scott is, and always should be, viewed as an exception. Three games played and given a four year deal but even then you could see he was as sure as a sure thing could be - and again, the contract length is unusual for an 18 year old

- And that’s for me where we get to the nub. We don’t want to be in a position where we are giving each 18 year old a 4 year deal because of the dropoff - and I think everyone acknowledges that Tommy and Sam are below Antoine and Alex. The three year deal at the start is sensible (and lower is often given), but then by the time they get to their second or third contract, they don’t want to sign longer than three years as they are established players and always have negotiating room. Look at how often we make signings for more than a three year deal - it’s not often.

So, for me, the duration of deals we gave Sam and Tommy feels right day one. An extra year would have been nice for negotiating but you’re giving that deal to someone who wasn’t a sure thing. Then once the first deal is in play, it’s into normal process.

I’m viewing the longer contract as nice in this case but ultimately quite a risky move in practice unless it is a Scott.

 

[INCRED]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

“Has he improved?  I’d say Manning’s system has stifled Tommy”

In terms of Conway developing as a striker Manning has certainly had a significant effect by highlighting what runs he can make, what spaces to look for and how to utilising them - whether or no the ball reached him is down to Mannings style and/or his teammates not playing him in.

Why is it always the head coaches fault? Good strikers should be able to adapt to different styles & formations 

If they are found to not be able to adapt regardless of coaching then they will usually be replaced by players who can 

If TC goes this summer then good luck to the lad but he has many limitations and flaws in his game still and until he addresses those he will not be a 20 goal a season striker for any club at this level or above IMHO

I would like him to sign a new contract and continue to work on his game and be that 20 goal a season striker but I fear whoever is advising him is not focussing on TC the footballer but more so TC the cash cow