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32 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Only if you set much store by nominal positions rather than roles. An example was Scholes who people complained was played on the left. He said himself that wasn't true, he was free to go wherever he wanted and just needed to move left when we were defending. The same could apply to Foden though it would help if Shaw was fit as he is good at pushing high up.

For me, we don’t need the full backs pushing up. 
I’d even rather we stick a CB at LB for more defensive solidity. 
With the wealth of attacking options we have we are far better having Rice, Jude, Saka, Foden, Palmer & Kane as the front 6 and just telling the back 4 to stick to defending. 
Those attacking players don’t need full backs pushing high. They’ll just get in the way. 
Our weakest area is the defence. We should just tell all 4 to stay back and focus on that 

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20 minutes ago, Nathandao said:

Pickford is one of the best goalkeepers around. He gets so much undeserved hatred and very rarely puts a foot wrong for club and country.

2nd for clean sheets in the prem this season for a bottom half side says it all I think...

Specialist in saving pens as well. 

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22 minutes ago, Nathandao said:

Pickford is one of the best goalkeepers around. He gets so much undeserved hatred and very rarely puts a foot wrong for club and country.

2nd for clean sheets in the prem this season for a bottom half side says it all I think...

Yep. Without him Everton would likely have been relegated at some point in the last few years.

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Posted (edited)

My ideal team would be

Pickford

Walker Stones Maguire Shaw

TAA Rice

Bellingham

Saka Kane Foden

Shaw to operate as a flying wingback, with the other 3 forming a more conventional back 3.

Foden, although showing there as left forward basically does what he wants where he wants to link in with Jude, Kane and Saka and make them click. Shaw can provide a bit more width and cover on the left flank. Walkers pace can make up for anything on the other side.

Football would be coming home!

Edited by grifty
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1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

Off the bat I'd say 

Trafford, Branthwaite, Quansah, Wharton, Jones, Toney and Eze.

The teams for the friendlies will give us more of a hint 

Branthwaite is twice the player Dunk is. 

 

Dunk has played a few times for England and has seemed to make a mistake every single time. 

 

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58 minutes ago, North London Red said:

Imagine the clamour for Southgate to reconsider if Sancho and Bynoe-Gittens both play well in the Champions League final a week on Saturday. 
 

Sancho arguably a bit unlucky, as are Dier and Solanke. 

Sancho was never an automatic pick even when he was ripping it up for Dortmund first time around, amd when he was picked there were the same questions about attitude (timekeeping etc) and mentality that have caused him problems at club level.

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2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

It's the right call on Rashford, but I'd forgive him if he feels a bit miffed that Grealish has made the cut when he hasn't.

Grealish had a fantastic season last season and has been OK this season. I don't think he lost his place for Man City because he has been playing poorly, think its more a case of being kept out of the team by the superb Doku. 

Grealish has won 3 premier leagues in a row and a treble. Plus he has a good relationship with Foden so based on those things I can see why he is in the squad ahead of Rashford who's just done nothing. 

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2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Sancho was never an automatic pick even when he was ripping it up for Dortmund first time around, amd when he was picked there were the same questions about attitude (timekeeping etc) and mentality that have caused him problems at club level.

Not automatic, but still got 23 caps in three years. 

Totally get the point about professionalism, but Sancho could be a potentially devastating option from the bench against a tiring defence. Dortmund have worked out how to get the best out of him (for the wider benefit of the team); Ten Hag and Southgate haven’t.

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6 minutes ago, North London Red said:

Not automatic, but still got 23 caps in three years. 

Totally get the point about professionalism, but Sancho could be a potentially devastating option from the bench against a tiring defence. Dortmund have worked out how to get the best out of him (for the wider benefit of the team); Ten Hag and Southgate haven’t.

He's not really been tearing it up for Dortmund, though slowly getting back to his best.

I'd argue on this season people like Gordon and Bowen deserve a place more so than Sancho.

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33 minutes ago, Harry said:

For me, we don’t need the full backs pushing up. 
I’d even rather we stick a CB at LB for more defensive solidity. 
With the wealth of attacking options we have we are far better having Rice, Jude, Saka, Foden, Palmer & Kane as the front 6 and just telling the back 4 to stick to defending. 
Those attacking players don’t need full backs pushing high. They’ll just get in the way. 
Our weakest area is the defence. We should just tell all 4 to stay back and focus on that 

A 4-0-6 formation would certainly be brave and probably unprecedented!😉 With the quality of defenders we have being so much lower than our attackers we would likely be overwhelmed.

And how do you get any coherent game plan with 6 attackers getting in each other's way, occupying the same spaces? It doesn't seem to be the ways tournaments have been won in the past.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

A 4-0-6 formation would certainly be brave and probably unprecedented!😉 With the quality of defenders we have being so much lower than our attackers we would likely be overwhelmed.

And how do you get any coherent game plan with 6 attackers getting in each other's way, occupying the same spaces? It doesn't seem to be the ways tournaments have been won in the past.

Ha ha. 
No, I mean you’d still have Rice and Jude essentially as central midfielders, so you’d have Rice more the holding CM with Jude getting forward. 
I just don’t think that with Saka, Foden & let’s say Palmer all in advanced attacking positions, with Jude able to join them, it doesn’t require full backs to get up the pitch as well. I’d rather we picked 4 solid proper defenders who are there to defend first and foremost and let the flair players do the attacking and creativity. 
Would also help lots if Stones didn’t hold onto the ball for about 38 seconds every time he gets it and slows everything down. Just ping it into Foden or Jude and play from there with speed and intensity. No need for the slow ball played by Stones 

Edited by Harry
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45 minutes ago, grifty said:

My ideal team would be

Pickford

Walker Stones Maguire Shaw

TAA Rice

Bellingham

Saka Kane Foden

Shaw to operate as a flying wingback, with the other 3 forming a more conventional back 3.

Foden, although showing there as left forward basically does what he wants where he wants to link in with Jude, Kane and Saka and make them click. Shaw can provide a bit more width and cover on the left flank. Walkers pace can make up for anything on the other side.

Football would be coming home!

Foden is wasted on the left.  Play him as the 10, play Bellingham alongside Rice and Palmer on the left of the front 3

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5 minutes ago, Malago said:

Foden is wasted on the left.  Play him as the 10, play Bellingham alongside Rice and Palmer on the left of the front 3

I be tempted 4-1-4-1 with rice as the holding midfielder and Saka Foden Bellingham palmer in front

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48 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Branthwaite is twice the player Dunk is. 

 

Dunk has played a few times for England and has seemed to make a mistake every single time. 

 

I'd agree. 

I feel like with it being an major tournament Southgate will be as conservative as possible, Branthwaite has yet to play for England, it's a big risk taking him

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5 hours ago, grifty said:

Would he go Trent at centre mid?

With Walker at RB and Trippier able to cover both full back positions we can free Trent into centre mid with Rice and Bellingham just ahead.

Foden, Kane, Saka as a top 3 but let Foden drift everywhere and do what he wants basically.

Hopefully Foden will tear up this tournament.

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17 minutes ago, Malago said:

Foden is wasted on the left.  Play him as the 10, play Bellingham alongside Rice and Palmer on the left of the front 3

That’s what I’d do. 

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19 minutes ago, Malago said:

Foden is wasted on the left.  Play him as the 10, play Bellingham alongside Rice and Palmer on the left of the front 3

You didn’t read my post.

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

That’s what I’d do. 

Palmer has operated more on the right or centrally for Chelsea this season though so don't think playing him out of position for England benefits him. I also don't think you can play all of Bellingham, Foden or Palmer simply because they all like dropping into that number 10 position and we need people running in behind Kane.

I'd be really tempted with Gordon on the left, seriously impressed me this year everytime I've seen him and think his pace with Saka on the other side and Kane to pick them out could be frightening!

                       Pickford

Walker         Stones      Maguire       Trent (Unsure on Maguire and Trent but struggling to make a case for others)

             Rice           Bellingham

Saka             Foden               Gordon

                     Kane

 

Lot of good players not picked for that team with the second CB being my concern

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1 minute ago, hinsleburg said:

Palmer has operated more on the right or centrally for Chelsea this season though so don't think playing him out of position for England benefits him. I also don't think you can play all of Bellingham, Foden or Palmer simply because they all like dropping into that number 10 position and we need people running in behind Kane.

I'd be really tempted with Gordon on the left, seriously impressed me this year everytime I've seen him and think his pace with Saka on the other side and Kane to pick them out could be frightening!

                       Pickford

Walker         Stones      Maguire       Trent (Unsure on Maguire and Trent but struggling to make a case for others)

             Rice           Bellingham

Saka             Foden               Gordon

                     Kane

 

Lot of good players not picked for that team with the second CB being my concern

Trent isn't the best defensively, playing him outside of position looks a big risk to me.

For me Colwill is one of the most surprising omissions considering how weak we are at left back...

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Fair play to Gareth, some ballsy decisions which have been lacking lately from him imo.

Glad he dropped Rashford, Chilwell and Henderson. 

Still feel he overlooks Tomori too much, I feel he's better than Dunk. Dier maybe a little unlucky too, been generally ok for Bayern Munich.

No complaints really.

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Love the way everyone starts picking their starting line-ups and stating "player x MUST play here" etc.

They've probably already got 3 or 4 potential line-ups in mind to use across the tournament, depending on opposition, resting players etc.

Tournaments are won by squads, not 11 players.

The team that starts against Serbia won't be the one that finishes it (hopefully in Berlin on 14th July).

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1 hour ago, Malago said:

Foden is wasted on the left.  Play him as the 10, play Bellingham alongside Rice and Palmer on the left of the front 3

 

49 minutes ago, Harry said:

That’s what I’d do. 

And Bellingham will be wasted in a more defensive position,  so I don't think there is an ideal answer 

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11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Love the way everyone starts picking their starting line-ups and stating "player x MUST play here" etc.

They've probably already got 3 or 4 potential line-ups in mind to use across the tournament, depending on opposition, resting players etc.

Tournaments are won by squads, not 11 players.

The team that starts against Serbia won't be the one that finishes it (hopefully in Berlin on 14th July).

Ok. Let’s close the thread 

🤣🤣

Only kidding. Of course the same 11 won’t play every game, I think people always do like to play the ‘what’s the optimum 11’. Just a bit of fun. 

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7 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

 

And Bellingham will be wasted in a more defensive position,  so I don't think there is an ideal answer 

Bellingham wouldn’t be in defensive position. He’d be the ‘8’ with Rice as ‘6’ and Foden as ‘10’. 

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

Bellingham wouldn’t be in defensive position. He’d be the ‘8’ with Rice as ‘6’ and Foden as ‘10’. 

Bellingham plays as a 10 for Real and 8 is more defensive.

I personally think there is no chance Southgate plays Rice, Bellingham and Foden in the centre, he has always played a double pivot in CM

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54 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

Palmer has operated more on the right or centrally for Chelsea this season though so don't think playing him out of position for England benefits him. I also don't think you can play all of Bellingham, Foden or Palmer simply because they all like dropping into that number 10 position and we need people running in behind Kane.

I'd be really tempted with Gordon on the left, seriously impressed me this year everytime I've seen him and think his pace with Saka on the other side and Kane to pick them out could be frightening!

                       Pickford

Walker         Stones      Maguire       Trent (Unsure on Maguire and Trent but struggling to make a case for others)

             Rice           Bellingham

Saka             Foden               Gordon

                     Kane

 

Lot of good players not picked for that team with the second CB being my concern

A few of them do like the ‘10’ position but they are all clever enough players to make space and combine with each other. I think Gordon does have a chance to be fair. From the left. But if Jude is the ‘8’ with Foden as ‘10’ they’ll both get in the box and behind Kane at times too. 
Anyway, you say Palmer hasn’t played on the left and then go and select Trent on the left too, where he’s never played! 🙃

Only kidding. That left back spot is a hard one without any decent option beyond Shaw (who won’t be going let’s be honest). 

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1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Bellingham plays as a 10 for Real and 8 is more defensive.

I personally think there is no chance Southgate plays Rice, Bellingham and Foden in the centre, he has always played a double pivot in CM

But Real is a whole different outfit. Jude has mostly played as the ‘8’ for England. It’s the traditional box to box role. He’s fully capable of doing it and still getting the best out of him. 
I just think that with the wealth of talent in attacking areas we have to get 5 of them out there plus Rice. I don’t want to see the ‘double pivot’. I want to see us utilise our most gifted individuals and not have to shoehorn in a 2nd holding midfielder who isn’t anywhere near the level required. 
He has to find a way of getting his 5 best attacking players on the pitch and to me that means Rice as a holder and then 4 proper defenders, with no need to full backs to bomb on 

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Pleasantly surprised by the squad - was certain Rashford and Henderson would get in. Really pleased neither did.

Not sure about a few inclusions (Jones, Gallagher) but I can understand the logic. Harvey Elliot is a bit unlucky to miss out.

Exciting squad anyway, happy with that overall.

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1 hour ago, hinsleburg said:

Palmer has operated more on the right or centrally for Chelsea this season though so don't think playing him out of position for England benefits him. I also don't think you can play all of Bellingham, Foden or Palmer simply because they all like dropping into that number 10 position and we need people running in behind Kane.

I'd be really tempted with Gordon on the left, seriously impressed me this year everytime I've seen him and think his pace with Saka on the other side and Kane to pick them out could be frightening!

                       Pickford

Walker         Stones      Maguire       Trent (Unsure on Maguire and Trent but struggling to make a case for others)

             Rice           Bellingham

Saka             Foden               Gordon

                     Kane

 

Lot of good players not picked for that team with the second CB being my concern

What ever formation you play

Play the best players in the correct position

DONT put square pegs in round holes

Why would you play Trent at left back!!! Play a left back

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2 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

What ever formation you play

Play the best players in the correct position

DONT put square pegs in round holes

Why would you play Trent at left back!!! Play a left back

I have Lee Johnson’s phone number if you would like it?

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2 minutes ago, North London Red said:

Harvey Elliott is an interesting one. I’ve wondered over the last year or so whether his non-selection for the senior team is in any way connected to the offensive video of Elliott impersonating Harry Kane. 

Didn’t know about this and was wondering about Elliot’s lack of involvement. On one hand, Harry has always seemed the most inoffensive, solid guy so mocking him like that was pretty crap form. Other hand, Harvey would have been about 17. Who didn’t screw up at 17. Sad to see Elliot miss out, but if it is about squad harmony I get it.

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Seven to be cut then. I’d go Dean Henderson, Quansah, Guehi, Wharton, Bowen, Maddison, Eze.

That was actually a lot harder than I expected, but I think I could just about justify any of those shouts 🤣

I’d also have taken Dier and Rashford, and left Dunk and Grealish. Definitely a minority view but Dier is playing brilliantly in Germany and Rashford is very consistent for England. 

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5 hours ago, JBFC II said:

A bit confused as to what James Trafford has done to deserve a call up?

Johnstone injured, probably would have then been the 4th anyway over Henderson as then Henderson wouldn't have played. Trafford is likely number 1 or 2 in 2/3 years time depending on if Ramsdale gets back to playing and improves again. So every chance Trafford gets taken as third choice for him to experience a senior competition before he's expected to play in one, similar to when Walcott was taken as a 17 year old.

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54 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Johnstone injured, probably would have then been the 4th anyway over Henderson as then Henderson wouldn't have played. Trafford is likely number 1 or 2 in 2/3 years time depending on if Ramsdale gets back to playing and improves again. So every chance Trafford gets taken as third choice for him to experience a senior competition before he's expected to play in one, similar to when Walcott was taken as a 17 year old.

I get that, however I feel like he needs to prove himself as being good enough for the Premier league first before getting England caps

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3 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Seven to be cut then. I’d go Dean Henderson, Quansah, Guehi, Wharton, Bowen, Maddison, Eze.

That was actually a lot harder than I expected, but I think I could just about justify any of those shouts 🤣

I’d also have taken Dier and Rashford, and left Dunk and Grealish. Definitely a minority view but Dier is playing brilliantly in Germany and Rashford is very consistent for England. 

Lost all credibility when you said you'd take rashford!

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4 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Lost all credibility when you said you'd take rashford!

🤣 is a hot take at the mo. But 12 months ago he was in a lot of peoples first 11! I’d be starting Foden from the left (with lots of encouragement to drift centrally/switch with Bellingham) but I think Rashford is a better back up option than your Bowen’s or Eze’s.

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Posted (edited)

if you go 4-2-3-1... with Kane obviously up front...

you can either drop Bellingham into the midfield 2 alongside Rice, allowing you to play Foden behind Kane, Saka right and Palmer or Gordon on the left,,, 

or you add Mainoo / Gallagher next to Rice and play Bellingham behind Kane, Saka right and Foden left...

fairly equal gains and losses with both options.... I just hope Gareth tries all combinations in the 2 warm up games...

 

I'd love to see a 4-1-4-1 as per Man City, with Rice holding, and Saka, Bellingham, Foden and Palmer behind Kane.

Edited by DolmanGaz
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10 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

🤣 is a hot take at the mo. But 12 months ago he was in a lot of peoples first 11! I’d be starting Foden from the left (with lots of encouragement to drift centrally/switch with Bellingham) but I think Rashford is a better back up option than your Bowen’s or Eze’s.

I agree with you. 

He's definitely a better player than both of those. 

He's had a poor season by his standards, but Man United seems a toxic place to be & almost everyone seems to have struggled there this season. 

We're going into a tournament with Maguire as the 3rd top scorer through the squad which is interesting. 

I won't complain too much though, I think Southgate tends to get most things right. 

 

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9 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Defensively we look so short. The likes of Dunk shouldn’t be anywhere near an England team.

But that’s where we are.

I'd have Tomori ahead of Dunk, and on recent form maybe Dier too.

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10 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

I agree with you. 

He's definitely a better player than both of those. 

He's had a poor season by his standards, but Man United seems a toxic place to be & almost everyone seems to have struggled there this season. 

We're going into a tournament with Maguire as the 3rd top scorer through the squad which is interesting. 

I won't complain too much though, I think Southgate tends to get most things right. 

3rd top scorer for England, I assume?

Hardly a concern when you look at the number of goals the likes of Kane, Bellingham, Foden, Palmer, Saka, Watkins, Solanke and Bowen have scored this season. 

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3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

3rd top scorer for England, I assume?

Hardly a concern when you look at the number of goals the likes of Kane, Bellingham, Foden, Palmer, Saka, Watkins, Solanke and Bowen have scored this season. 

Yeah, for England.

Found it interesting that he was third, only Saka & Kane ahead.

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Just now, Carey 6 said:

Yeah, for England.

Found it interesting that he was third, only Saka & Kane ahead.

Which shows how important set pieces can be in international football. And indeed club football as Arsenal have shown.

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15 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Didn’t know about this and was wondering about Elliot’s lack of involvement. On one hand, Harry has always seemed the most inoffensive, solid guy so mocking him like that was pretty crap form. Other hand, Harvey would have been about 17. Who didn’t screw up at 17. Sad to see Elliot miss out, but if it is about squad harmony I get it.

There’s some WhatsApp message screen shots by Harvey and his mother showing them to be pretty racist scumbags.

A few years ago Elliot got absolutely knobbled (broken leg I think?) and his mother had some rather choice words for the person who did it!

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On 21/05/2024 at 18:15, Red Army 75 said:

Absolutely right Rashford has been left out. Has been awful for Man United in a poor Man United side. He needs to leave them and kickstart his career. 

What he needs to do is man up and stop being a spinless c##t

who hides the second the going gets tough 

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On 21/05/2024 at 14:32, TV Tom said:

You’re dead right, it says it all if Pickford is our No.1, there’s a reason why he doesn’t play for a top club

Arguably best keeper in the league this year, second most clean sheets but compare the players in front of him and chances faced?

Hes barely put a foot wrong for England and if 3 players hadn’t missed their penalties he’d have been the penalty hero against Italy and gone down as one of the best ever (for England) in the history books…

On 21/05/2024 at 16:35, Malago said:

Foden is wasted on the left.  Play him as the 10, play Bellingham alongside Rice and Palmer on the left of the front 3

Palmer doesn’t play on the left though either

I I think they need to set up like they did against Belgium with a more fluid approach where Foden and Bellingham interchanged well.

On 21/05/2024 at 16:42, CyderHead92 said:

I be tempted 4-1-4-1 with rice as the holding midfielder and Saka Foden Bellingham palmer in front

Rice can’t sit and hold on his own so I don’t see that happening. Any set up would be more of a 4-3-3

On 21/05/2024 at 17:44, cidercity1987 said:

 

And Bellingham will be wasted in a more defensive position,  so I don't think there is an ideal answer 

Bellingham is equally as good picking up the ball deeper and running with it, like Scott did for us. He wouldn’t be “wasted” in an 8

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Some interesting calls and omissions.

4-3-3ish seems a way to go..Bellingham in a midfield 3 rather than the front 3 surely.

On a very vaguely City related note, has Scott slipped down the pecking order a bit? Wharton in ahead of him albeit Scott has had injuries in parirudsr this year- relative lack of game time at times too.

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6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some interesting calls and omissions.

4-3-3ish seems a way to go..Bellingham in a midfield 3 rather than the front 3 surely.

On a very vaguely City related note, has Scott slipped down the pecking order a bit? Wharton in ahead of him albeit Scott has had injuries in parirudsr this year- relative lack of game time at times too.

Not sure Scott was exactly in the pecking order to be able to slip down it but I would certainly imagine it is a source of frustration for him that Wharton has hard the exact trajectory that many of us hoped he would.

As you say, he had an injury disrupted season. Hopefully next year, with a pre-season to make his case, he can make a far greater impact.

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7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some interesting calls and omissions.

4-3-3ish seems a way to go..Bellingham in a midfield 3 rather than the front 3 surely.

On a very vaguely City related note, has Scott slipped down the pecking order a bit? Wharton in ahead of him albeit Scott has had injuries in parirudsr this year- relative lack of game time at times too.

Yes but it’s not surprising given the injury hit season Scott has had. He should take the positives from Wharton being called up as it shows the opportunity is there.

No reason why Scott couldn’t be one of the names mentioned when discussing England squads in the future if he stays injury free.

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7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some interesting calls and omissions.

4-3-3ish seems a way to go..Bellingham in a midfield 3 rather than the front 3 surely.

On a very vaguely City related note, has Scott slipped down the pecking order a bit? Wharton in ahead of him albeit Scott has had injuries in parirudsr this year- relative lack of game time at times too.

Wharton is a very different player to Scott and one we don’t have as much depth in. 

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Wharton is a very different player to Scott and one we don’t have as much depth in. 

I think they’re pretty similar.  I’ve always said that I saw Wharton as the most stylistically similar young player in the Champ as Scott.

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