Man U inviting non football staff to take redundancy?!

[exAtyeoMax]

https://x.com/SkySportsNews/status/1795711787150504126

[GlastonburyRed]

Sir Jim trimming the fat.

[BanburyRed]

Judging by their performance in the PL this season, that could equally apply to most of the playing staff too...

[chinapig]

This is a man who thinks the number of emails you send is a measure of productivity.

It's like measuring the team's performance by the number of aimless crosses they put in.

[ExiledAjax]

27 minutes ago, chinapig said:

This is a man who thinks the number of emails you send is a measure of productivity.

It's like measuring the team's performance by the number of aimless crosses they put in.

Inbox entries.

[phantom]

I can think of a club not too far away that is overflowing with staff off the pitch

[Sir Geoff]

Redundancy only if they refuse to go back to work in the office. Quite right too imo.

[exAtyeoMax]

15 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Redundancy only if they refuse to go back to work in the office. Quite right too imo.

I don't know if it actually says that?

People had been informed earlier in the month that they should return to the office. I guess that's ok as long as they haven't employed people who can't go to the office, or live too far away?

 

[Bristol Rob]

31 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Redundancy only if they refuse to go back to work in the office. Quite right too imo.

I think it's assisted resignation rather than redundancy, from what I was reading, if people choose to resign they can leave and collect a bonus that was due to be paid in a few months, otherwise they need to return to their place of work.

 

[Markthehorn]

I suppose they are at least offering that rather than just getting rid.

[Maltshoveller]

2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I don't know if it actually says that?

People had been informed earlier in the month that they should return to the office. I guess that's ok as long as they haven't employed people who can't go to the office, or live too far away?

 

Their fans can travel from London So why can't the staff!!!

[steveybadger]

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Redundancy only if they refuse to go back to work in the office. Quite right too imo.

Why? There are a number of productivity studies post COVID that show employees working at home to be more efficient and productive.
 

The whole make them work in the office because loads of other people do is just another front in the endlessly boring culture wars. 

[LondonBristolian]

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Redundancy only if they refuse to go back to work in the office. Quite right too imo.

I find the fetishisation of working in offices a bit weird, to be honest. I go into the office a few days each week and I'd hate to have a job where I didn't do that but the reality is that I do certain tasks much better at home than in the office. Writing reports or complex documents in the office is a pain in the arse because I get interrupted every three minutes whereas working from home the whole time makes it really hard to discuss things with people properly.

I think it's utterly ridiculous people focus on "everyone should work in the office" when it comes down to what the actual best environment is for the task you're doing. The idea everyone has to be in the office every day is linked weird outdated nonsense based on the idea that the workplace has to be in some way punitive for work to be worthwhile. 

Edited May 29 by LondonBristolian

[exAtyeoMax]

 

[chinapig]

14 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I find the fetishisation of working in offices a bit weird, to be honest. I go into the office a few days each week and I'd hate to have a job where I didn't do that but the reality is that I do certain tasks much better in the office than in person. Writing reports or complex documents in the office is a pain in the arse because I get interrupted every three minutes whereas working from home the whole time makes it really hard to discuss things with people properly.

I think it's utterly ridiculous people focus on "everyone should work in the office" when it comes down to what the actual best environment is for the task you're doing. The idea everyone has to be in the office every day is linked weird outdated nonsense based on the idea that the workplace has to be in some way punitive for work to be worthwhile. 

It's all too typical of organisations to measure performance on the basis of inputs rather than outcomes. See also the related phenomenon of presenteeism - the longer you spend in the office the better you are seen to be though your productivity is likely to fall in fact.

Hybrid working is common now. In my last job there was only enough office space for 60% of the staff so you could only book a desk a week in advance for a maximum of 3 days. This saved a lot of money on accommodation costs with no fall in performance. And with modern technology it was easy to collaborate with colleagues around the country.

Still, "this is the way we have always done things" prevails .

[LondonBristolian]

20 minutes ago, chinapig said:

It's all too typical of organisations to measure performance on the basis of inputs rather than outcomes. See also the related phenomenon of presenteeism - the longer you spend in the office the better you are seen to be though your productivity is likely to fall in fact.

Hybrid working is common now. In my last job there was only enough office space for 60% of the staff so you could only book a desk a week in advance for a maximum of 3 days. This saved a lot of money on accommodation costs with no fall in performance. And with modern technology it was easy to collaborate with colleagues around the country.

Still, "this is the way we have always done things" prevails .

Exactly. Man Utd is a great case in point in that they don't actually have enough space for everyone to work in the office. So they're spending money converting other parts of their training complex into additional offices in order to give people less flexibility on how to do their jobs which is very likely to lead to a fall in productivity. As you say, it's measuring completing the wrong things and insisting on tradition for the sake of it, resulting in spending more to achieve less. 

[nebristolred]

That 'everyone must be in the office' just screams of being yet another symptom of an antiquated club doing things in an antiquated way.

[TDarwall]

22 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

That 'everyone must be in the office' just screams of being yet another symptom of an antiquated club doing things in an antiquated way.

Any firm that applies this strictly will just lose out on a lot of talent. Sometimes things happen which change society & covid certainty did that in terms of attitude to work.  For many people an element of flexible working is a must have in any role. Sir Jim is just depriving himself of a large % of the workforce.

[bcfcredandwhite]

2 hours ago, steveybadger said:

Why? There are a number of productivity studies post COVID that show employees working at home to be more efficient and productive.
 

The whole make them work in the office because loads of other people do is just another front in the endlessly boring culture wars. 

The company I work for has recently forced staff back into the office for 2 days per week. 
All sorts of corporate waffle was given as the reason, but basically the CEO doesn’t like people working ‘out of sight’. Productivity doesn’t come into it. It’s the old 1980s management ‘if I can’t see you then you’re not working’ mindset. 
God forbid you might load the dishwasher or nip out for a pint of milk between meetings. 
Some people say ‘well, it’s just back to how it was years ago’ - true - and women weren’t allowed to vote years ago too. 
The workplace has evolved. It’s PROGRESS. This ‘back to the office’ thing is trying to artificially cling to an outdated working practice. 
 

Edited May 29 by bcfcredandwhite
Add words

[Davefevs]

Just now, bcfcredandwhite said:

The company I work for has recently forced staff back into the office for 2 days per week. 
All sorts of corporate waffle was given as the reason, but basically the CEO doesn’t like people working ‘out of sight’. Productivity doesn’t come into it. It’s the old 1980s management ‘if I can’t see you then you’re not working’ mindset. 
God forbid you might load the dishwasher or nip out for a pint of milk between meetings. 
Some people say ‘well, it’s just back to how it was years ago’ - true - and women weren’t allowed to vote years ago too. 
The workplace has evolved. This is trying to artificially cling to an outdated working practice. 
 

According to the seniors in the company I contract at, they want people in so you can chat to people in other teams…about something you’ve no interest in!

[bcfcredandwhite]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

According to the seniors in the company I contract at, they want people in so you can chat to people in other teams…about something you’ve no interest in!

Ours mentioned something about ‘being together as a team’ - but the desk booking system means you’re going to be sat with a bunch of strangers all with their headsets on dialled into Teams meetings - which you could have done from home, without polluting the environment by driving to an office. 
 

I personally don’t have a problem popping into the office from time to time - which I have been doing. I don’t like being TOLD to do it - and held to account for NOT doing it. 
I will do it as and when I want to. 

Edited May 29 by bcfcredandwhite
Add words

[LondonBristolian]

50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

According to the seniors in the company I contract at, they want people in so you can chat to people in other teams…about something you’ve no interest in!

Next time you're in, why not give them an unprompted, uninvited detailed analysis of how George Tanner's positional play has developed over the course of the last season? 

[chinapig]

15 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Next time you're in, why not give them an unprompted, uninvited detailed analysis of how George Tanner's positional play has developed over the course of the last season? 

Better than my experience of listening to people spending the first 20 minutes loudly discussing what happened on The Apprentice the night before then having breakfast at their desk! Plus two lads dissecting in detail their cycle to the office that morning.

During lockdown I had more conversations with more people than before. We certainly had some laughs along the way as we got on well and enjoyed our jobs but it was much more focused on the work.

Sir Jim might not have approved of me sending few emails though.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Ours mentioned something about ‘being together as a team’ - but the desk booking system means you’re going to be sat with a bunch of strangers all with their headsets on dialled into Teams meetings - which you could have done from home, without polluting the environment by driving to an office. 
 

I personally don’t have a problem popping into the office from time to time - which I have been doing. I don’t like being TOLD to do it - and held to account for NOT doing it. 
I will do it as and when I want to. 

And everyone being told to go on mute because they are getting noise from all the other meetings.

Thankfully my boss is a grown-up and managed to sort an exemption for me.  I will go in when it’s really necessary, but not to just be seen to hit a 2 day per week target.

[Ronnie Sinclair]

Office working is optional but I make an effort to go in twice a week if I can, although we have a desk booking policy which is a pain in the backside at times trying to get desks together as a team.  The bosses treat us like adults and as long as we don't take the piss they are happy to let us work where we like.  

[bcfcredandwhite]

3 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

Office working is optional but I make an effort to go in twice a week if I can, although we have a desk booking policy which is a pain in the backside at times trying to get desks together as a team.  The bosses treat us like adults and as long as we don't take the piss they are happy to let us work where we like.  

It’s similar with us. 
The bosses are just as annoyed about it as the rest of us. However, we are now clocked in and out, and a monthly attendance report is sent to the line managers. They are expected to use this against your annual review and if you haven’t done enough office attendance it will affect your annual appraisal - regardless of your productivity. 

[City37]

I Don't see what the problem is.

INEOS are now in charge of a huge club which has under performed since SAF retired.

Pundits, ex players and fans have been saying it is "rotten too the core".

INEOS have obviously seen a alot of things they don't like about the club and are making changes, nothing wrong with that.

For what its worth - I have worked from home since Covid and I believe its far more productive to be in an office environment with the team than sat at home.

[bcfcredandwhite]

8 minutes ago, City37 said:

I Don't see what the problem is.

INEOS are now in charge of a huge club which has under performed since SAF retired.

Pundits, ex players and fans have been saying it is "rotten too the core".

INEOS have obviously seen a alot of things they don't like about the club and are making changes, nothing wrong with that.

For what its worth - I have worked from home since Covid and I believe its far more productive to be in an office environment with the team than sat at home.

I think it depends a lot on what your role is. 
I personally don’t see the point in driving into an office to sit with strangers and dial into meetings like I would at home. 
It’s just SILLY. 

[Red-Robbo]

6 minutes ago, City37 said:

I Don't see what the problem is.

INEOS are now in charge of a huge club which has under performed since SAF retired.

Pundits, ex players and fans have been saying it is "rotten too the core".

INEOS have obviously seen a alot of things they don't like about the club and are making changes, nothing wrong with that.

For what its worth - I have worked from home since Covid and I believe its far more productive to be in an office environment with the team than sat at home.

As a manager, I measure the productivity of my team in lots of different ways and I've found they actually produce more since we began remote working in 2021. We meet, as a team, once a month but - having worked in offices all my life before Covid- I know how easy it is to make yourself seem busy despite doing nothing in an office environment.  

[City37]

3 hours ago, nebristolred said:

That 'everyone must be in the office' just screams of being yet another symptom of an antiquated club doing things in an antiquated way.

Antiquated club doing things in antiquated way? 

No, this is a huge football institution who are are massively underporming.

Remember these are new owners looking to change the culture of the whole organisation.

Perhaps they know they have people working for them who take the piss.

Call me old fashioned but I would do the same if it was my call. There is evidently something drastically wrong at the club - not just the playing staff.

[nebristolred]

11 minutes ago, City37 said:

Antiquated club doing things in antiquated way? 

No, this is a huge football institution who are are massively underporming.

Remember these are new owners looking to change the culture of the whole organisation.

Perhaps they know they have people working for them who take the piss.

Call me old fashioned but I would do the same if it was my call. There is evidently something drastically wrong at the club - not just the playing staff.

To be fair I can see a logic in a massively underperforming institution wanting to take a closer look at things for sure, but if it's not a physical role, I struggle to see what they'll see productivity-wise that they can't already see from performance metrics.

Edited May 29 by nebristolred

[chinapig]

36 minutes ago, City37 said:

Antiquated club doing things in antiquated way? 

No, this is a huge football institution who are are massively underporming.

Remember these are new owners looking to change the culture of the whole organisation.

Perhaps they know they have people working for them who take the piss.

Call me old fashioned but I would do the same if it was my call. There is evidently something drastically wrong at the club - not just the playing staff.

Somehow I doubt the club's problems are down to the likes of the accounts payable team. The issues sit much higher in the hierarchy than that, as is usually the case.

[City37]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

Somehow I doubt the club's problems are down to the likes of the accounts payable team. The issues sit much higher in the hierarchy than that, as is usually the case.

Of course it's not down to the accounts payable team.

INEOS are looking to reset the culture and performance of the whole organisation - from top to bottom.

It's been well documented about their "marginal gain" theory.

 

[Colemanballs]

7 hours ago, City37 said:

Of course it's not down to the accounts payable team.

INEOS are looking to reset the culture and performance of the whole organisation - from top to bottom.

It's been well documented about their "marginal gain" theory.

 

That wasn't INEOS. It was Team Sky who incidentally, since being taken over by INEOS, have been transformed from the dominant team in cycling into just another also ran.

[grifty]

I work Mon, Tue, Wed in the office and Thur Fri at home.

After spending potentially an hour stuck on the M25 I might get to work at 8:45, be in a bad mood because of the traffic and then have to listen to the pints in the kitchen behind talking about what they watched on TV last night, then I'm out the door at 5 to try and get home asap in the traffic again.

When working from home, I log on and clear emails, etc at 7.30/8 so they get would get more hours work out of me!

The company I work for are disgraceful when it comes to my contract so I purposefully take the mick on my WFH days and spend most of it on Youtube or Football Manager. I do work non-stop on my days in to allow me to have a couple of relaxing days!

[SecretSam]

20 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Redundancy only if they refuse to go back to work in the office. Quite right too imo.

Ah, the 1980s have popped in. Tell me why it's important for staff to go into the office, pray, do? 

I've worked from home for years, with Teams/Skype/Zoom, I can hold my meetings, and I'm far more productive and work harder for longer than I ever did in the office. I went in last week and literally got nothing done, too many interruptions.

For certain roles, I can understand it, but at a time when many companies are shifting to a virtual model (which saves ££££s), it's a baffling retrograde step.

[SecretSam]

15 hours ago, TDarwall said:

Any firm that applies this strictly will just lose out on a lot of talent. Sometimes things happen which change society & covid certainty did that in terms of attitude to work.  For many people an element of flexible working is a must have in any role. Sir Jim is just depriving himself of a large % of the workforce.

100%. My latest job, I stipulated from the start I would WFH. They were fine with that, like many companies, they don't have space for all their staff in the offices.

[ExiledAjax]

40 minutes ago, grifty said:

The company I work for are disgraceful when it comes to my contract so I purposefully take the mick on my WFH days and spend most of it on Youtube or Football Manager. I do work non-stop on my days in to allow me to have a couple of relaxing days!

I've been underemployed like that before. Really struggled with it as although you might have nothing to do you can never truly be "off". You can't actually use that time to do something useful so yeh you end up playing video games or watching TV. 

I got fed up with it in the end and deliberately sought out a job where I'd be busier.

Generally on working from home. I do 2 days in the office and 3 at home and it's great. Office days have their uses in my industry but the firm are very grown up about it and if it works then it works. Some people go in all the time, a few never go in. Just be grown up and get the work done.

[SecretSam]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

According to the seniors in the company I contract at, they want people in so you can chat to people in other teams…about something you’ve no interest in!

I didn't know you were one of the IR35 hordes, Dave. 

[City37]

1 hour ago, Colemanballs said:

That wasn't INEOS. It was Team Sky who incidentally, since being taken over by INEOS, have been transformed from the dominant team in cycling into just another also ran.

Marginal gains is a theory of Sir David Brailsford who is employed by INEOS and very much at the forefront of the Man Utd takeover.

[SecretSam]

9 hours ago, City37 said:

Of course it's not down to the accounts payable team.

INEOS are looking to reset the culture and performance of the whole organisation - from top to bottom.

It's been well documented about their "marginal gain" theory.

 

Actually, 'marginal gains' was borrowed from British Cycling by that over-hyped plank Brailsford. It's not an INEOS thing; in fact, BC nicked it from Toyota.

As for changing culture - you change behaviours, attitudes, and standards. Culture follows. And it's not helped by petty presenteeism. If the only way they can gain oversight of productivity is by seeing people in an office, then they're in more trouble than anyone realised. 

Is Radcliffe going to be in every day? Oh, hang on, that would affect his tax exile status...

5 minutes ago, City37 said:

Marginal gains is a theory of Sir David Brailsford who is employed by INEOS and very much at the forefront of the Man Utd takeover.

Brailsford no more invented it than I invented breathing. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, SecretSam said:

I didn't know you were one of the IR35 hordes, Dave. 

Hordes or whores!

I was, but current contract is “inside”, so not only am I paying regular Tax and NI, I have the privilege of paying Employers NI, Apprentice Levy and my Umbrella Company Margin.  It’s horseshit.

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I've been underemployed like that before. Really struggled with it as although you might have nothing to do you can never truly be "off". You can't actually use that time to do something useful so yeh you end up playing video games or watching TV. 

I got fed up with it in the end and deliberately sought out a job where I'd be busier.

Generally on working from home. I do 2 days in the office and 3 at home and it's great. Office days have their uses in my industry but the firm are very grown up about it and if it works then it works. Some people go in all the time, a few never go in. Just be grown up and get the work done.

That's pretty much the definition of hybrid working. I looked into this when we were deciding the best model of work post-pandemic in my last job.

There's been a lot of research on the effect on productivity which shows mixed results. Nick Bloom of Stanford University is the prominent researcher. To quote from the New York Times:

Nick Bloom, an economist at Stanford and a prolific scholar on remote work, said the new set of studies showed that productivity differed among remote workplaces depending on an employer’s approach — how well trained managers are to support remote employees and whether those employees have opportunities for occasional meet-ups.

So as with so many things the quality of management is key. My guess is Sir Jim is expressing a prejudice rather than making an evidence-based decision. Would he do that on the football side? I think not.

[Ska Junkie]

19 hours ago, TDarwall said:

Any firm that applies this strictly will just lose out on a lot of talent. Sometimes things happen which change society & covid certainty did that in terms of attitude to work.  For many people an element of flexible working is a must have in any role. Sir Jim is just depriving himself of a large % of the workforce.

While I agree in principle, I also disagree.

As someone that WFH, with occasional office / site visits, I have a routine and have done for years. Some others, blatantly take the piss and disappear for hours on end, usually around school pick up time. 

I brought in a flexible 'part time' return to the office ( 2 or 3 days a week) at Senior Management's bequest, only to be met by screaming abuse as their WFH routine had become the 'norm'. If you're paid until say 5, don't bugger off at half 2 to pick little Johnny up and expect me not to notice. 

Personally, I think the answer lies somewhere between full time office and full time WFH, especially for admin staff. There is a lot of self discipline needed to WFH and not get caught up in other things around the home IMHO and not everyone can do it / has the space to do it.

Edited May 30 by Ska Junkie

[ExiledAjax]

51 minutes ago, chinapig said:

That's pretty much the definition of hybrid working. I looked into this when we were deciding the best model of work post-pandemic in my last job.

There's been a lot of research on the effect on productivity which shows mixed results. Nick Bloom of Stanford University is the prominent researcher. To quote from the New York Times:

Nick Bloom, an economist at Stanford and a prolific scholar on remote work, said the new set of studies showed that productivity differed among remote workplaces depending on an employer’s approach — how well trained managers are to support remote employees and whether those employees have opportunities for occasional meet-ups.

So as with so many things the quality of management is key. My guess is Sir Jim is expressing a prejudice rather than making an evidence-based decision. Would he do that on the football side? I think not.

It helps as well that my firm is multi office anyway, and we all work with each other. So I might already be working with someone in Manchester, who I never meet, so why does it matter if I'm in office or my home office?

Likewise, in the last 18 months I have had one. One. Client ask to come and meet us at the office. Clients no longer care if I wear a tie, work in an office, or speak queen's English. All they car about is that my advice is good and I get the work done (and I don't cost them the earth).

As I say, I'm lucky that I'm at a firm that understands this and even older more senior partners seem very accepting of it.

[chinapig]

42 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

While I agree in principle, I also disagree.

As someone that WFH, with occasional office / site visits, I have a routine and have done for years. Some others, blatantly take the piss and disappear for hours on end, usually around school pick up time. 

I brought in a flexible 'part time' return to the office ( 2 or 3 days a week) at Senior Management's bequest, only to be met by screaming abuse as their WFH routine had become the 'norm'. If you're paid until say 5, don't bugger off at half 2 to pick little Johnny up and expect me not to notice. 

Personally, I think the answer lies somewhere between full time office and full time WFH, especially for admin staff. There is a lot of self discipline needed to WFH and not get caught up in other things around the home IMHO and not everyone can do it / has the space to do it.

Isn't that a management issue though (see my previous post)?

I had a team member with caring responsibilities who would start work at 6am. By arrangement she would take care of her mother at agreed times then log back in and continue working.

What mattered was not if she worked from 9-5 (I can't recall anybody in the wider team who did) but if she got the work done to the required standard within deadlines. As it happens she was outstanding and often produced more than was required.

Research has also shown that people are more motivated when they have a degree of control over their work. A rigid approach is likely to have the opposite effect.

[MyBrotherErnie]

I read a study somewhere that suggested that flexible working made productive workers even more productive, and unproductive workers even less productive. Makes sense to me -- good workers know how to structure their time and what conditions suit their work at different points, but bad workers suffer if they're not in a structured office environment.

 

The solution is to hire good workers, rather than stopping everyone working flexibly.

[chinapig]

19 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It helps as well that my firm is multi office anyway, and we all work with each other. So I might already be working with someone in Manchester, who I never meet, so why does it matter if I'm in office or my home office?

Likewise, in the last 18 months I have had one. One. Client ask to come and meet us at the office. Clients no longer care if I wear a tie, work in an office, or speak queen's English. All they car about is that my advice is good and I get the work done (and I don't cost them the earth).

As I say, I'm lucky that I'm at a firm that understands this and even older more senior partners seem very accepting of it.

Likewise we had people in London, Bristol, Manchester, Leeds and Glasgow. Geographical separation was never a problem.

[TDarwall]

56 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

While I agree in principle, I also disagree.

As someone that WFH, with occasional office / site visits, I have a routine and have done for years. Some others, blatantly take the piss and disappear for hours on end, usually around school pick up time. 

But the reality is people that take the proverbial will always do so, regardless of whether they're at home or the office. I often nip out during the day to walk the dog, do the school run etc. but equally I often work early/late & do stuff at weekends. As long as the job gets done, does it matter if the worker follows a 9-5 standard day?

 

 

[Ska Junkie]

1 minute ago, TDarwall said:

But the reality is people that take the proverbial will always do so, regardless of whether they're at home or the office. I often nip out during the day to walk the dog, do the school run etc. but equally I often work early/late & do stuff at weekends. As long as the job gets done, does it matter if the worker follows a 9-5 standard day?

If that was the case, it wouldn't be a problem TD but when customers call and nobody answers, it becomes an issue as I'm sure you appreciate. BTW, it's not my choice to bring them back in, that decision was made way above my pay grade.

Like you, I nip out with the dog but am usually still going well after hours. once the phone stops, I get more done tbh.

[Ska Junkie]

12 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Isn't that a management issue though (see my previous post)?

I had a team member with caring responsibilities who would start work at 6am. By arrangement she would take care of her mother at agreed times then log back in and continue working.

What mattered was not if she worked from 9-5 (I can't recall anybody in the wider team who did) but if she got the work done to the required standard within deadlines. As it happens she was outstanding and often produced more than was required.

Research has also shown that people are more motivated when they have a degree of control over their work. A rigid approach is likely to have the opposite effect.

Totally a Management issue CP. They haven't withdrawn or modified the covid arrangements so people are taking full time wages for part time work. Massive oversight on the Management's part tbh.

[ExiledAjax]

27 minutes ago, chinapig said:

control

Control is so empowering. Control of our lives and acceptance by others. Give people those two things and they will more often than not prove themselves deserving.

[Curr Avon]

On 29/05/2024 at 09:17, GlastonburyRed said:

Sir Jim trimming the fat.

Outeos?

[BigTone]

4 hours ago, chinapig said:

Isn't that a management issue though (see my previous post)?

I had a team member with caring responsibilities who would start work at 6am. By arrangement she would take care of her mother at agreed times then log back in and continue working.

What mattered was not if she worked from 9-5 (I can't recall anybody in the wider team who did) but if she got the work done to the required standard within deadlines. As it happens she was outstanding and often produced more than was required.

Research has also shown that people are more motivated when they have a degree of control over their work. A rigid approach is likely to have the opposite effect.

I suppose the problem is that some will always take advantage of a situation and take the mick and then those such as the person you mention who is doing the right thing gets adversely affected.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

On 29/05/2024 at 14:58, steveybadger said:

Why? There are a number of productivity studies post COVID that show employees working at home to be more efficient and productive.
 

The whole make them work in the office because loads of other people do is just another front in the endlessly boring culture wars. 

I work in a chemical works, so doesn't really work for me. 

Though I'd quite like to produce chemicals, whilst in my undercrackers.

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, BigTone said:

I suppose the problem is that some will always take advantage of a situation and take the mick and then those such as the person you mention who is doing the right thing gets adversely affected.

It's certainly a risk you have to be aware of and manage. Though it didn't arise in my team.

Which was probably down to my superb leadership skills. Or possibly because I poached good people from other teams who I knew wanted to do new and more challenging work.

[BigTone]

17 minutes ago, chinapig said:

It's certainly a risk you have to be aware of and manage. Though it didn't arise in my team.

Which was probably down to my superb leadership skills. Or possibly because I poached good people from other teams who I knew wanted to do new and more challenging work.

Can't argue with that !!

[Harry]

12 hours ago, SecretSam said:

Actually, 'marginal gains' was borrowed from British Cycling by that over-hyped plank Brailsford. It's not an INEOS thing; in fact, BC nicked it from Toyota.

As for changing culture - you change behaviours, attitudes, and standards. Culture follows. And it's not helped by petty presenteeism. If the only way they can gain oversight of productivity is by seeing people in an office, then they're in more trouble than anyone realised. 

Is Radcliffe going to be in every day? Oh, hang on, that would affect his tax exile status...

Brailsford no more invented it than I invented breathing. 

Of course, Brailsford didn’t “invent” marginal gains, but it was he who brought it to British Cycling and then subsequently to Team Sky. 
“Invented” no, but certainly made a huge success of the theory. 
 

As for the wider story I think this is one big ruse from Radcliffe. 
He knows there are a lot of rotten apples and that something is broken in the whole Man U set up, from top to bottom and in every area. 
I believe this is an exercise to sort the wheat from the chaff. 
Once they’ve gone through the redundancy process he’ll have a very firm idea of which employees actually want to be there and represent the biggest football club in the world and have pride to do so. 
Once those who want to be there are confirmed, he’ll relinquish and reinstall the work from home / hybrid options. 
He’s basically getting rid of anyone who doesn’t believe in the pride of working for Man U and who just see it as a convenient job. 
 

This process in itself is a marginal gain. 
1) Get rid of those who don’t wanna be there. 2) Know that those who remain are committed. 3) Increase their morale by reinstating freedom in their roles. 4) = happier, committed and trustworthy workforce. 

Edited May 30 by Harry

[steveybadger]

5 hours ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

I work in a chemical works, so doesn't really work for me. 

Though I'd quite like to produce chemicals, whilst in my undercrackers.

It’s a strong image .

Ah look it clearly doesn’t work for everyone; I just get peed off with one size fits all crap politics.

[Lanterne Rouge]

On 30/05/2024 at 17:30, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

I work in a chemical works, so doesn't really work for me. 

Though I'd quite like to produce chemicals, whilst in my undercrackers.

Frinkiac - S08E15 - HOT STUFF COMING THROUGH.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

3 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Frinkiac - S08E15 - HOT STUFF COMING THROUGH.

Not sure our HSE department would risk assess that positively.

[SecretSam]

On 30/05/2024 at 20:24, Harry said:

Of course, Brailsford didn’t “invent” marginal gains, but it was he who brought it to British Cycling and then subsequently to Team Sky. 
“Invented” no, but certainly made a huge success of the theory. 

I'm not sure he brought it to BC, although he was responsible for creating the winning machine they had there. I think the likes of Chris Boardman and co. were responsible for a lot of the innovation, as part of the "Secret Squirrel" team:

"In the run-up to the Beijing Olympics we gained a huge understanding. We didn't just try to make a big improvement in one area; we looked at a thousand things, and how each could be improved by just one per cent. Aggregate all of that and it becomes a meaningful number."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/17635921

[Harry]

5 hours ago, SecretSam said:

I'm not sure he brought it to BC, although he was responsible for creating the winning machine they had there. I think the likes of Chris Boardman and co. were responsible for a lot of the innovation, as part of the "Secret Squirrel" team:

"In the run-up to the Beijing Olympics we gained a huge understanding. We didn't just try to make a big improvement in one area; we looked at a thousand things, and how each could be improved by just one per cent. Aggregate all of that and it becomes a meaningful number."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/17635921

Your link provides the answer. Read paragraph 5. It was Brailsford who discussed the idea with Boardman. You have successfully rested my case for me

[SecretSam]

On 01/06/2024 at 15:17, Harry said:

Your link provides the answer. Read paragraph 5. It was Brailsford who discussed the idea with Boardman. You have successfully rested my case for me

D'oh.

But Brailsford nicked it from Toyota.

So there.

Ha.

[SydneyCity]

Aggregation of marginal gains was largely driven by the All Blacks, it’s been part of their philosophy and process for a very long time. Marginal gains can be “technical, physical, practical, operational or psychological”.

As the most successful organisation in the history of sport, their methodologies have been studied and incorporated into almost all disciplines.

I recommend the book, Legacy if you like that sort of thing.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, SecretSam said:

D'oh.

But Brailsford nicked it from Toyota.

So there.

Ha.

Yep. Toyota introduced the Kaizen principles. Which is based around continual improvement. 
The subject matter is basically the same but Brailsford essentially renamed it “marginal gains”. 
Same as many ideas, they’ve always been around, they just get renamed and relaunched and utilised in a slightly different manner. 
 

I think, to conclude this debate, we are both correct. But it was definitely DB that introduced it to cycling 

[maxjak]

On 29/05/2024 at 09:17, GlastonburyRed said:

Sir Jim trimming the fat.

Apparently staff had to contribute £20 for attending the Cup Final, whereas in the past it's been all free.........no wonder Jim's a billionaire with that level of stinginess.....?