Silvio Dante Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 OK…here goes. Borussia Dortmund have announced German footballs first ever sponsorship from a weapons manufacturer. The company in question, Rheinmetall, is currently contracted to provide ammunition to Israel. Ignoring the rights and wrongs in Gaza, as there is a thread for that on the Politics forum, what’s the take here on football teams being sponsored by firms such as this. Better, worse or the same as things like Newcastles owners with the human rights issues and how would we feel if it was us? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiga_Steve Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 It's a bit strange - who exactly are they advertising their company to? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) It's interesting. There are plenty of defence manufacturers in the Bristol area that, in theory, City could be sponsored by but whether any are currently supplying Israel I now wouldn't know having been retired from the MOD for over 6 years. I wouldn't be too happy with such sponsorship but then again I wasn't mad keen on betting firms either. According to the report they are not sponsoring the shirts, which could have raised major backlash, but taking up advertising space at Dortmund's stadium. If the average German supporter takes as much interest in the advertising around the ground as I do at the Gate I don't know if most will register it or care. They are ofcourse contesting the Champions League final which I couldn't care less about but for those who follow such things it poses an interesting dilemma - Dortmund's links to the arms industry or the side of the Spanish dictator Franco. Edited May 31 by RoystonFoote'snephew Text corrrection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Absolutely sickened. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said: It's interesting. There are plenty of defence manufacturers in the Bristol area that, in theory, City could be sponsored by but whether any are currently supplying Israel I now wouldn't know having been retired from the MOD for over 6 years. I wouldn't be too happy with such sponsorship but then again I was mad keen on betting firms either. According to the report they are not sponsoring the shirts, which could have raised major backlash, but taking up advertising space at Dortmund's stadium. If the average German supporter takes as much interest in the advertising around the ground as I do at the Gate I don't know if most will register it or care. They are ofcourse contesting the Champions League final which I couldn't care less about but for those who follow such things it poses an interesting dilemma - Dortmund's links to the arms industry or the side of the Spanish dictator Franco. Has anyone caught that blessed dog yet ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) I'm not sure there if there are any or much in football sponsorship tbh. Gambling is bad enough and I thought a bit better of Borussia Dortmund tbh. Then again Gazprom were CL sponsors for years, Saudi Arabia and Qatar hosting World Cups..list goes on. Edited May 31 by Mr Popodopolous 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 I don't like either. At all. But as a fan of BVB, I think you'd have a good shout at defeating this sponsorship, since they are a 50+1 club. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cloud Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 I wonder what the reaction would be if they were supplying arms to Hamas? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedontplayinblue Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Gambling ruins lives but no one seemed to care when we had Dunder on the kit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 4 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: OK…here goes. Borussia Dortmund have announced German footballs first ever sponsorship from a weapons manufacturer. The company in question, Rheinmetall, is currently contracted to provide ammunition to Israel. Ignoring the rights and wrongs in Gaza, as there is a thread for that on the Politics forum, what’s the take here on football teams being sponsored by firms such as this. Better, worse or the same as things like Newcastles owners with the human rights issues and how would we feel if it was us? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall This ship has sailed the minute Man City were taken over,is what it is now 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 minute ago, Wedontplayinblue said: Gambling ruins lives but no one seemed to care when we had Dunder on the kit. What doesn’t ruin lives,food,smoking and drinking,how about people look after themselves and let people do what they want to do without bringing everyone down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 34 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: What do you think causes more harm? Weapons manufacturers or alcohol manufacturers? I would say alcohol causes way more misery and death throughout the world through (both alcoholism and causing health issues), broken families, violence etc etc, yet most fans would be celebrating if we placed “Thatchers Gold” on the front of our shirt. We even chant about alcohol and drugs. Nobody has mentions the “Heineken” logo spattered across stand. I genuinely find humans fascinating at times. Exactly,do we want a nanny state where because we have a few alcoholics alcohol should be banned,it’s total bs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pip King Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Yeah I hate this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) It’s certainly provocative. Knowing it’s likely to stir a negative reaction amongst many, even stranger to announce it on the eve of a CL Final. Absolutely tone deaf. Edited May 31 by 38MC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke_bristol Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 5 minutes ago, 38MC said: It’s certainly provocative. Knowing it’s likely to stir a negative reaction amongst many, even stranger to announce it on the eve of a CL Final. Absolutely tone deaf. They probably aren’t interested in bowing to outrage mobs, as it sets a bad precedent. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Plymouth have Babcock advertising all round home park which is unsurprising as they are the largest employer in the area with their running of Devonport. There's a babcock site opposite AG that makes torpedo tubes for submarines and all kinds of other weapons systems stuff. Next to UWE you have Babcock, Boeing, Thales, QinetiQ, Northrup Gruman, General Dynamics and a bunch of other defence contractors. You have DE&S and the SDA at Abbey Wood. GKN, Airbus and RR in Filton. Take all that out, you've got an unemployment problem in Bristol. The defence industry already helps fund Bristol City, indirectly, through their employees who are also our fans. Source: I'm one of them. Im actually amazed we've never had investment fron these firms before, or maybe we have idk. Would it bother me if we had one of these on our shirts, honestly, probably not. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1team Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Football is just another example of a morally bankrupt society. I think we are so lost that if it turned out Rosemary West was a billionaire some club would be courting her £. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewisdabaron Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Doubt the “Yellow Wall” with be full of these placards anytime soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 10 hours ago, Tim Monaghan said: What do you think causes more harm? Weapons manufacturers or alcohol manufacturers? I would say alcohol causes way more misery and death throughout the world through (both alcoholism and causing health issues), broken families, violence etc etc, yet most fans would be celebrating if we placed “Thatchers Gold” on the front of our shirt. We even chant about alcohol and drugs. Nobody has mentions the “Heineken” logo spattered across stand. I genuinely find humans fascinating at times. It's not a good comparison. Which is more prevalent? Can I get hold of an ICBM in Tesco for £3 in ten minutes? One is created with the only purpose to cause death and destruction, one isn't. For the record I don't like alcohol sponsorships either, or gambling, but just because one bad thing is a popular sponsor doesn't mean people shouldn't be upset if other bad things become sponsors. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 6 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Plymouth have Babcock advertising all round home park which is unsurprising as they are the largest employer in the area with their running of Devonport. There's a babcock site opposite AG that makes torpedo tubes for submarines and all kinds of other weapons systems stuff. Next to UWE you have Babcock, Boeing, Thales, QinetiQ, Northrup Gruman, General Dynamics and a bunch of other defence contractors. You have DE&S and the SDA at Abbey Wood. GKN, Airbus and RR in Filton. Take all that out, you've got an unemployment problem in Bristol. The defence industry already helps fund Bristol City, indirectly, through their employees who are also our fans. Source: I'm one of them. Im actually amazed we've never had investment fron these firms before, or maybe we have idk. Would it bother me if we had one of these on our shirts, honestly, probably not. I don't think people are saying the companies shouldn't exist though? People understand why they're a necessity, whether they like them or not. Saying the defense industry funds the club via fans is weird though. We're obviously talking about direct sponsorship and representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAWS Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Hypocrites everywhere you turn. People in glass houses. You have to be very sure of your knowledge to take a stance on this stuff. Think the simple answer is that the human race/world is pretty f*cked! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedontplayinblue Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 6 minutes ago, IAmNick said: I don't think people are saying the companies shouldn't exist though? People understand why they're a necessity, whether they like them or not. Saying the defense industry funds the club via fans is weird though. We're obviously talking about direct sponsorship and representation. People who were protesting including the signed statement from city fans made it clear they don’t want these companies to exist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Just now, Wedontplayinblue said: People who were protesting including the signed statement from city fans made it clear they don’t want these companies to exist. Well I don't want them to but I accept they have to! Can you show me the statement? Not sure I've seen it. I assume that was about the arms thing at AG, not a sponsorship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 13 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said: Gambling ruins lives but no one seemed to care when we had Dunder on the kit. Tbh we no longer have a gambling sponsor anymore iirc. Could be for commercial reasons, but then plenty of clubs do.. If Gambling Sponsorship is restricted more widely, that day will be highly inteddting for Stoke given that Bet 365... *Own them. *Hold naming rights for the Stadium. *Sponsor their kit To name 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Interesting subject, as it was when Ashton gate hosted a conference and my view is the same - I work in the sector so can’t really be against it. That said, I imagine people aren’t upset about what the company does but more who they supply and that’s a whole can of worms. You could find issue in almost any company somehow if you looked hard enough I imagine, I’m not sure I’d be as bothered about a defence contractor being our sponsor as I would a bookmaker - but that’s my personal issue / experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 I'd start with the alcohol and gambling sponsorship first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Tbh we no longer have a gambling sponsor anymore iirc. Could be for commercial reasons, but then plenty of clubs do.. New local restrictions on advertising gambling in Bristol came in iirc. Basically scuppered the Mansion bet add at bus stops around the city, so the overarching deal was ended. Personally I'd rather we were sponsored by an arms manufacturer than an alcohol, gambling, or dodgy crypto/FX/"trading" company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedontplayinblue Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 9 hours ago, IAmNick said: Well I don't want them to but I accept they have to! Can you show me the statement? Not sure I've seen it. I assume that was about the arms thing at AG, not a sponsorship? It was as the arms fair at the gate was taking place, as it has done for years but due to Israel/gaza people have now decided it’s wrong, although from articles and videos it seemed more a “free palastine” protest than the proposed stop all arms trade protest. https://caat.org.uk/news/campaigners-blockade-bristol-arms-fair/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68478528.amp https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/city-fans-join-protest-arms-fair-takes-place-ashton-gate/ https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-city-fans-anger-disgust-9133994.amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedontplayinblue Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Putting some extra context on this, Alcohol kills 3.3 MILLION people a year worldwide Ongoing wars kill around 550,000 a year. However horrible it all is, is the arms dealer the worst out of the two sponsorships? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old School B block Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 If that mattered we’d not have a World Cup in Qatar . Boxing is the same as money talks. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 42 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: New local restrictions on advertising gambling in Bristol came in iirc. Basically scuppered the Mansion bet add at bus stops around the city, so the overarching deal was ended. Personally I'd rather we were sponsored by an arms manufacturer than an alcohol, gambling, or dodgy crypto/FX/"trading" company. Is that right? Didn't know that, thanks..Stoke and Bet365 would be intriguing if gambling was seriously tightened in the professional game. The list could be endless tbh, though I can't see a positive case for an arms manufacturer/trader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Is that right? Didn't know that, thanks..Stoke and Bet365 would be intriguing if gambling was seriously tightened in the professional game. The list could be endless tbh, though I can't see a positive case for an arms manufacturer/trader. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-city-council-bans-adverts-5138679.amp I'd not see an arms manufacturer sponsoring us as a positive move, but I think there are quite a few industries that are worse. As I said when we hosted that arms fair - I've very little issue with the defence industry. But I'd also be totally ok with respecting the views of other fans if enough were against it. I'm not going to die on a hypothetical hill fighting for the right to slap "BAE Systems" on the shirt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 4 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said: Putting some extra context on this, Alcohol kills 3.3 MILLION people a year worldwide Ongoing wars kill around 550,000 a year. However horrible it all is, is the arms dealer the worst out of the two sponsorships? Potentially not. What's your point? Some things are really awful, others are awful? Edited June 1 by IAmNick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedontplayinblue Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 19 minutes ago, IAmNick said: Potentially not. What's your point? Some things are really awful, others are awful? My point is, there’s protest and fans signing petitions for an arms fair happening at Ashton gate, which has been happening for years, But absolutely no protests or petitions for all the alcohol advertising and sales we have at the gate. Alcohol deaths are massive compared to death by war worldwide, it’s hypocritical for a start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 13 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said: My point is, there’s protest and fans signing petitions for an arms fair happening at Ashton gate, which has been happening for years, But absolutely no protests or petitions for all the alcohol advertising and sales we have at the gate. Alcohol deaths are massive compared to death by war worldwide, it’s hypocritical for a start. Why is that hypocritical though? Do you go to the people who run to raise money for cancer and go "BUT WHAT ABOUT HEART DISEASE"? There are lots of people who don't like alcohol advertising but it's much more normalised in our society. I don't think it's hypocritical at all. Lots of bad things happen. That doesn't mean it's hypocritical if we call out some of them but not others imo. Otherwise nothing would ever change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 8 hours ago, IAmNick said: Do you go to the people who run to raise money for cancer and go "BUT WHAT ABOUT HEART DISEASE"? That's not hypocritical, that's just being selective in their cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said: That's not hypocritical, that's just being selective in their cause. I agree, just like people who'd speak up against defense sponsorship but not gambling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I can't see a positive case for an arms manufacturer/trader. How about - "Rheinmetall - Keeping Ukraine Free!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Sponsorship is a minefield. In the UK, it's all gambling and booze, because they have the most money for the limited space on a shirt. In some continental leagues, it's more diverse with loads of sponsors...the jerseys are more like cycling ones with half a dozen plastered over the front. I actually think the Slags' idea of a raffle a few years back was a great solution. But... gambling again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) But if we start banning defence contractors how further should we go? Fast food sponsors? Obesity kills 2.8m a year! I work in defence and they sponsor around 500 sport clubs. The only banning that makes some sense to me is drinking and gambling because it has a somewhat direct link to the sport. Edited June 2 by Sturny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedontplayinblue Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 15 hours ago, IAmNick said: Why is that hypocritical though? Do you go to the people who run to raise money for cancer and go "BUT WHAT ABOUT HEART DISEASE"? There are lots of people who don't like alcohol advertising but it's much more normalised in our society. I don't think it's hypocritical at all. Lots of bad things happen. That doesn't mean it's hypocritical if we call out some of them but not others imo. Otherwise nothing would ever change. I think you are missing my point, so probably best to finish the conversation there. I hope your having a nice weekend, Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38MC Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 20 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-city-council-bans-adverts-5138679.amp I'd not see an arms manufacturer sponsoring us as a positive move, but I think there are quite a few industries that are worse. As I said when we hosted that arms fair - I've very little issue with the defence industry. But I'd also be totally ok with respecting the views of other fans if enough were against it. I'm not going to die on a hypothetical hill fighting for the right to slap "BAE Systems" on the shirt. I think the point for me is it’s not a Business to Consumer supplier. It’s an industry that needs to promote itself from within - like the fair. It just doesn’t make sense to me why they would be investing in raising profile given they’re so heavily regulated and licensed, such that their target market already knows who they are… so why? Why advertise and why as a club be a promoter. It’s one of those ‘opportunities’ that’s easy to pass on Edited June 2 by 38MC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Humble Realist Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 What happend in the end when there was that protest about the arms conference being held at Ashton gate ? Did it change anything (genuine q , I dont know the answer )? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedontplayinblue Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 24 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said: What happend in the end when there was that protest about the arms conference being held at Ashton gate ? Did it change anything (genuine q , I dont know the answer )? Absolutely nothing, and I imagine it will be held next year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Most football club owners think that ethics is a county in the south east of England. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Ethics and football should never be in the same sentence! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stortfordred Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 If it wasn't for arms manufacturers, we'd all be in the Bundesliga. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 On 02/06/2024 at 19:26, Wedontplayinblue said: Absolutely nothing, and I imagine it will be held next year too. You mean the arse wipes who wrote an open letter about it all, got a load of artists and musicians to comment, who collectively like to think they are the voice of the fans because they do a podcast in their spare bedroom actualy did nothing practical ... imagine my shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 On 03/06/2024 at 12:53, stortfordred said: If it wasn't for arms manufacturers, we'd all be in the Bundesliga. On that logic if it hadn’t been for arms manufacturers there wouldn’t have been a war to begin with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedontplayinblue Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 1 hour ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: You mean the arse wipes who wrote an open letter about it all, got a load of artists and musicians to comment, who collectively like to think they are the voice of the fans because they do a podcast in their spare bedroom actualy did nothing practical ... imagine my shock. I know, I was absolutely shocked too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2024/06/03/dortmund-fans-protest-weapons-washing-rheinmetall-sponsorship-ucl-final/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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