England Pre-Euro Friendlies - Bosnia & Iceland

[steviestevieneville]

21 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Lewis Dunk… FFS! With Maguire out it’s a good chance he will be first choice as well.

Awful from Gareth and could be costly.

Ok I’ll bite . Who else could he have chosen defensively ? 

[And Its Smith]

21 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Dunk over Maguire (who has never let England down) and ex Hereford star Bowen over Grealish (who Southgate has never rated) is crazy, Southgate is a funking clown

Should have picked injured Maguire yeah 

[Northern Red]

Southgate has just said Maguire definitely wouldn't have made the group stages and they weren't sure when he'd be ready, and with doubts over other defenders it was too much of a risk.

Shaw may be available for the second group game.

"too soon" for Branthwaite.

Edited June 6 by Northern Red

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

I'm disappointed that Branthwaite is not in the final squad. He was the standout player for Everton thus season whereas Dunk has been disappointing of late. Experience wins it I guess. 

[Betty Swallocks]

8 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Ok I’ll bite . Who else could he have chosen defensively ? 

Jarrad Branthwaite should have been given the nod over Dunk.

[steviestevieneville]

5 minutes ago, Betty Swallocks said:

Jarrad Branthwaite should have been given the nod over Dunk.

Southgate just he’s not ready yet. What I’ve seen of him he gets dragged out of position a bit too easy & goes to ground easily as well . He needs to stay on his feet more 

34 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Dunk over Maguire (who has never let England down) and ex Hereford star Bowen over Grealish (who Southgate has never rated) is crazy, Southgate is a funking clown

Maguire is injured 

[DolmanGaz]

Dunk not fit for tomorrow and can probably start training early next week... So guessing it's Guehi and Stones for the first group game? Imagine he'll play them tomorrow, then swap Guehi for another second half?

 

Edited June 6 by DolmanGaz

[Leabrook]

If that’s the team for the first game I wouldn’t be at all surprised 

[DolmanGaz]

I'd be quite surprised!

 

assume he'll go quite strong tomorrow? 

Edited June 6 by DolmanGaz

[Leabrook]

2 minutes ago, DolmanGaz said:

I'd be quite surprised!

 

assume he'll go quite strong tomorrow? 

He certainly has to start with his preferred centre back pairing so will be interesting to see selection. 

[RedEyez]

2 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Or

Trent  Walker  Stones  Trippier

 

I’m really not sure on Guehi. The times I have seen him, looks a bit of a car crash. Not sure on Dunk either.

Trent at RB in a major tournament scares the hell out of me for some reason. Would have no problem with him starting alongside Rice but hopefully we see Mainoo there instead.

 

Walker still one of , if not, the best RB in the world. 

Edited June 6 by RedEyez

[DolmanGaz]

first choice surely

Walker. Stones. ??  Trippier

 

TAA there as option if Walker injured?

If Shaw plays parts of the 2nd and third group games, then ready for knockouts and Trippier becomes deputy FB

Edited June 6 by DolmanGaz

[BCFC11]

ION: Gibraltar 0-0 Wales 

[formerly known as ivan]

44 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Ok I’ll bite . Who else could he have chosen defensively ? 

Any of the younger two, particularly Branthwaite

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

Uncle Southgate has been very ruthless. Love it. 
 

Dont think even the most negative of England fans towards him can find any way to slag him off on those selections!

Dunk over Branthwaite is certainly questionable not only on club form but recent friendlies Dunk was terrible. Can only think he’s in for experience, Stones has had injury issues too so imagine we lost him.

Itll be Guehi starting at CB next to Stones I expect 

2 hours ago, phantom said:

Played awful when given his chance 

At left back

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

It would probably be our weak point regardless of who was selected.

Agreed, but people have been saying that for years with Maguire (not me personally) so hopefully someone else can step up and perform. We’ve certainly got the attacking talent this time!

[Northern Red]

He definitely sees TAA as a midfielder who can cover RB if needed.

[Harry]

No Grealish is a scandal. 
I keep hearing negatives about his form but I posted on here the other day about his minute per minute stats in comparison to the much lauded Doku and Grealish still performed well. 

And if you take the game on Monday as a rehearsal, he was bloody brilliant when he came on. Why even play him if you still won’t pick him even though he was the best player on the pitch when he came on??!! 
 

I like Eze, but let’s be honest, he’s not even in the same postcode as Grealish. 
Plus, again if we assess based on the friendly a few days ago, Eze ran down blind alleys and lost the ball a lot whereas Grealish was sublime. 
 

It’s the wrong call in my opinion. 
 

I also agree that Branthwaite is way better than Dunk. Dunk is a blunder on studs. 

Edited June 6 by Harry

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Agreed, but people have been saying that for years with Maguire (not me personally) so hopefully someone else can step up and perform. We’ve certainly got the attacking talent this time!

Maguire has rarely let England down, he’s a big threat in the other box too.

For me, Southgate’s issues in the past was (imho) playing an extra defender or extra DM to protect a weak defence…when all that did was take away our attacking strengths.  I think he overcompensated.

[kit]

Without mcguire its a loss from set pieces. I think aside from the fact that I'd have probably picked Branthwaite as first choice at CB or possibly 1st reserve, but he is possibly the best threat from set pieces after mcguire.

As has been said elsewhere though it just highlights that the defence is either going to be square pegs in round holes or severely lacking in depth, and the midfield is very much lacking in depth.

[AshtonGreat]

I'm sad that Grealish hasn't been picked, but we probably shouldn't be too surprised - he didn't play a minute of football in Man City's last four matches of the season. Clearly there's something not quite right at the moment.

[!james]

7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I'm sad that Grealish hasn't been picked, but we probably shouldn't be too surprised - he didn't play a minute of football in Man City's last four matches of the season. Clearly there's something not quite right at the moment.

Thought I'd check that as sounded wrong and it is

Anyway he should have gone for me, exceptional talent and I wouldn't look too much into his form for Man City recently. If he played for anyone else he would be playing every minute and would show he is better than Gordon and Eze. 

[Engvall’s Splinter]

50 minutes ago, Harry said:

No Grealish is a scandal. 
I keep hearing negatives about his form but I posted on here the other day about his minute per minute stats in comparison to the much lauded Doku and Grealish still performed well. 

And if you take the game on Monday as a rehearsal, he was bloody brilliant when he came on. Why even play him if you still won’t pick him even though he was the best player on the pitch when he came on??!! 
 

I like Eze, but let’s be honest, he’s not even in the same postcode as Grealish. 
Plus, again if we assess based on the friendly a few days ago, Eze ran down blind alleys and lost the ball a lot whereas Grealish was sublime. 
 

It’s the wrong call in my opinion. 
 

I also agree that Branthwaite is way better than Dunk. Dunk is a blunder on studs. 

I thought Grealish scraped in to the initial squad. His performance however on Monday was a reminder of what he can do on the international scene when teams sit in. If that was his audition, he passed it (for me at least). 

[CheddarReds]

Thoughts on the squad:

- Thought Branthwaite would go - he's done well this year, great in both boxes, would increase our options as a left-footed CB, at 21 you have to imagine he has a future in an England shirt so would be a good opportunity to get him some tournament experience, even if he doesn't get game time, and I'm particularly surprised he's in over Dunk as others have said. 

- Wharton - really glad he's in, again increases our options as a left footer, and wouldn't be surprised if he and Mainoo get some decent game time next to Rice. Think both of them could complement Rice nicely in years to come. 

- Grealish out - bit surprised at this one, would have expected his place to be more secure than Eze, Bowen and Gordon. Though when I thought about it more, perhaps we should be less surprised Grealish was left out given Rashford's omission - two players who on their day undoubtedly improve this squad and add quality that Eze, Bowen and Gordon don't have, but there's no doubt Eze, Gordon and Bowen have had better seasons. 

Toney and Watkins - seen some surprise they're both going. I'd be disappointed if they didn't. Think Toney is a more direct Kane replacement and you can't ignore the penalty record. Watkins a different, more mobile option who we can use to stretch defences more, also well deserving of his place after an impressive season.

[petehinton]

The more I’ve pondered this, the more I worry that maybe the issue is that Kane isn’t fit. 
 

Had constant back problems at the end of the season, couldn’t finish the Bayern game at Madrid. That opens up the need to have both Watkins AND Toney as central striker options if Kane can’t play as much as we’d all hope, and in reality one of those two have taken Grealish’s spot. 

[DolmanGaz]

nah. Bowen is the wasted spot for me... 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

The more I’ve pondered this, the more I worry that maybe the issue is that Kane isn’t fit. 
 

Had constant back problems at the end of the season, couldn’t finish the Bayern game at Madrid. That opens up the need to have both Watkins AND Toney as central striker options if Kane can’t play as much as we’d all hope, and in reality one of those two have taken Grealish’s spot. 

That worries me as Kane always seems to grow into tournaments.  He starts off a bit meh, and then looks awesome come the knockouts.  He's a million times better than Rooney though who seemed to never get going at all.

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 minute ago, DolmanGaz said:

nah. Bowen is the wasted spot for me... 

I agree hes a guy playing at the top of his game for club in order to just do enough, I prefer Watkins and Toney tbh.  

[AshtonGreat]

47 minutes ago, !james said:

Thought I'd check that as sounded wrong and it is

Anyway he should have gone for me, exceptional talent and I wouldn't look too much into his form for Man City recently. If he played for anyone else he would be playing every minute and would show he is better than Gordon and Eze. 

It's not wrong - if you include the FA Cup Final, it's four matches

[Super]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

No Grealish is a scandal. 
I keep hearing negatives about his form but I posted on here the other day about his minute per minute stats in comparison to the much lauded Doku and Grealish still performed well. 

And if you take the game on Monday as a rehearsal, he was bloody brilliant when he came on. Why even play him if you still won’t pick him even though he was the best player on the pitch when he came on??!! 
 

I like Eze, but let’s be honest, he’s not even in the same postcode as Grealish. 
Plus, again if we assess based on the friendly a few days ago, Eze ran down blind alleys and lost the ball a lot whereas Grealish was sublime. 
 

It’s the wrong call in my opinion. 
 

I also agree that Branthwaite is way better than Dunk. Dunk is a blunder on studs. 

Gordon has had a better season than Eze and Grealish. He prob sees Eze as that spark we need to change a game. Grealish can't complain he hasn't done enough this season. It's not a scandal.

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Any of the younger two, particularly Branthwaite

Southgate doesn’t think he’s ready. 

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, Super said:

Gordon has had a better season than Eze and Grealish. He prob sees Eze as that spark we need to change a game. Grealish can't complain he hasn't done enough this season. It's not a scandal.

If Grealish played for Palace or Newcastle he’d be comfortably outperforming Eze and Gordon. 
And as I mentioned the other day, if you compare minute for minute stats, Grealish outperformed Doku in nearly every metric. Pep was just wanting something different this season and went with Doku. 
When you look at creativity, keeping possession, key passes, as well as defensively Man City were better when JG played instead of Doku, Grealish has been very unlucky to have not played more and it isn’t that he’s not in form, he’s just not been played. His form is fine, as his comparative stats to Doku clearly show. 

[Harry]

To add. 
 

and let’s face it, Southgate has never been a fan of Grealish. Took an age to bring him into the squad. He’s had 36 caps of which only 15 were starts and he’s only given him the full 90 on 4 occasions. 
His talent should have seen him on 60+ caps already but Southgate has just never really liked him. 
 

If you witnessed the way Grealish and Maddison linked up on Monday, you’ll see two exceptionally talented players who were on very much the same wavelength. Partnerships are crucial in football and those 2 clearly click together. They are on the same page when they play. 
Southgate has rejected 2 of the most exceptionally talented, technical and clever players in the country as he obviously doesn’t like flair players.
 

[Markthehorn]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

To add. 
 

and let’s face it, Southgate has never been a fan of Grealish. Took an age to bring him into the squad. He’s had 36 caps of which only 15 were starts and he’s only given him the full 90 on 4 occasions. 
His talent should have seen him on 60+ caps already but Southgate has just never really liked him. 
 

If you witnessed the way Grealish and Maddison linked up on Monday, you’ll see two exceptionally talented players who were on very much the same wavelength. Partnerships are crucial in football and those 2 clearly click together. They are on the same page when they play. 
Southgate has rejected 2 of the most exceptionally talented, technical and clever players in the country as he obviously doesn’t like flair players.
 

Well there are a few flair players in the squad .

That is one area we aren’t short in

Although thought Grealish would go .

Edited June 6 by Markthehorn

[Super]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

To add. 
 

and let’s face it, Southgate has never been a fan of Grealish. Took an age to bring him into the squad. He’s had 36 caps of which only 15 were starts and he’s only given him the full 90 on 4 occasions. 
His talent should have seen him on 60+ caps already but Southgate has just never really liked him. 
 

If you witnessed the way Grealish and Maddison linked up on Monday, you’ll see two exceptionally talented players who were on very much the same wavelength. Partnerships are crucial in football and those 2 clearly click together. They are on the same page when they play. 
Southgate has rejected 2 of the most exceptionally talented, technical and clever players in the country as he obviously doesn’t like flair players.
 

Maddison hasn't been the same player since the injury. He certainly can't have any complaints. Not sure what you're on about when he's picked a flair player in Eze.

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Super said:

Maddison hasn't been the same player since the injury. He certainly can't have any complaints.

The man himself agrees:

Maddison also described himself as devastated but accepted his form had not been strong enough to demand inclusion. He wrote on social media: “Trained well and worked hard all week but if I’m honest with myself, my form for Spurs when coming back from injury in the second half of the season probably wasn’t at the levels I had set which gave Gareth a decision to make.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/06/england-euro-2024-squad-jack-grealish-harry-maguire-final-26

[chinapig]

19 minutes ago, Harry said:

To add. 
 

and let’s face it, Southgate has never been a fan of Grealish. Took an age to bring him into the squad. He’s had 36 caps of which only 15 were starts and he’s only given him the full 90 on 4 occasions. 
His talent should have seen him on 60+ caps already but Southgate has just never really liked him. 
 

If you witnessed the way Grealish and Maddison linked up on Monday, you’ll see two exceptionally talented players who were on very much the same wavelength. Partnerships are crucial in football and those 2 clearly click together. They are on the same page when they play. 
Southgate has rejected 2 of the most exceptionally talented, technical and clever players in the country as he obviously doesn’t like flair players.
 

It depends on your meaning of flair perhaps but Eze, Bellingham, Palmer, Foden, Saka are hardly journey man players I would say.

[Sir Geoff]

48 minutes ago, petehinton said:

The more I’ve pondered this, the more I worry that maybe the issue is that Kane isn’t fit. 
 

Had constant back problems at the end of the season, couldn’t finish the Bayern game at Madrid. That opens up the need to have both Watkins AND Toney as central striker options if Kane can’t play as much as we’d all hope, and in reality one of those two have taken Grealish’s spot. 

Think you could be right. First time Southgate has picked 3 strikers in a tournament squad.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

1 hour ago, DolmanGaz said:

nah. Bowen is the wasted spot for me... 

His pace and superb finishing ability won a European trophy for his club. Let's have some of that. 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

49 minutes ago, Harry said:

To add. 
 

and let’s face it, Southgate has never been a fan of Grealish. Took an age to bring him into the squad. He’s had 36 caps of which only 15 were starts and he’s only given him the full 90 on 4 occasions. 
His talent should have seen him on 60+ caps already but Southgate has just never really liked him. 
 

If you witnessed the way Grealish and Maddison linked up on Monday, you’ll see two exceptionally talented players who were on very much the same wavelength. Partnerships are crucial in football and those 2 clearly click together. They are on the same page when they play. 
Southgate has rejected 2 of the most exceptionally talented, technical and clever players in the country as he obviously doesn’t like flair players.
 

We've seen that at City to be fair. 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

24 minutes ago, chinapig said:

It depends on your meaning of flair perhaps but Eze, Bellingham, Palmer, Foden, Saka are hardly journey man players I would say.

I agree I'm struggling to see who grealish and maddison replace in the squad 

[formerly known as ivan]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

Southgate doesn’t think he’s ready. 

Southgate has the most talented generation of players possibly in England history and continues to bore an entire nation.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

3 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Southgate has the most talented generation of players possibly in England history and continues to bore an entire nation.

Really? England under Southgate have scored more goals (by some distance) than any other coach after pre-war Walter Winterbottom.

If england are boring, what does that make Bristol City? and we all watch that shit on repeat. 

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I agree I'm struggling to see who grealish and maddison replace in the squad 

Southgate has been criticised for being too loyal and not taking account of form. Now when he is decisive and leaves out players who have not been in form he gets criticised for that.

Though that usually boils down to little more than 'he didn't pick my favourite player' rather than anything more objective.

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

The more I’ve pondered this, the more I worry that maybe the issue is that Kane isn’t fit. 
 

Had constant back problems at the end of the season, couldn’t finish the Bayern game at Madrid. That opens up the need to have both Watkins AND Toney as central striker options if Kane can’t play as much as we’d all hope, and in reality one of those two have taken Grealish’s spot. 

He isn’t, I was surprised he came on on Monday but tbf as others said Toney and Watkins just give two different options as well, they aren’t the same player.

1 hour ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

That worries me as Kane always seems to grow into tournaments.  He starts off a bit meh, and then looks awesome come the knockouts.  He's a million times better than Rooney though who seemed to never get going at all.

 

Rooney was always plagued with injuries during his prime years for England, so I think it’s a little unfair. I don’t think he ever went into a tournament fit?

 

55 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Southgate doesn’t think he’s ready. 

And he’s the guy who’s spent the last 2 weeks with him so probably knows better than us I guess - though I thought he looked promising on Monday

[DolmanGaz]

14 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

His pace and superb finishing ability won a European trophy for his club. Let's have some of that. 

it's all opinions. but for me, Grealish influences England more, as shown the other night. Bowen is 5th choice wide player, a wasted spot when so light in defence

[formerly known as ivan]

13 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

If england are boring, what does that make Bristol City? and we all watch that shit on repeat. 

Probably best I don’t answer that as I get shouted at…

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Super said:

Maddison hasn't been the same player since the injury. He certainly can't have any complaints. Not sure what you're on about when he's picked a flair player in Eze.

 

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

It depends on your meaning of flair perhaps but Eze, Bellingham, Palmer, Foden, Saka are hardly journey man players I would say.

I suppose flair was the wrong word. 
Maverick would be a better one. Southgate doesn’t like a Maverick. 

Edited June 6 by Harry

[2015]

5 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Still surprises me Tomori doesn't even get a look into a provisional squad, not convinced with Dunk at all at international level either personally.

Has always been very bizarre for me. Will probably get a look in under a new Manager i'd imagine.

Dunk's inclusion over Branthwaite depresses me.

[2015]

Looking at our defence anyone who thinks we will win the Tournament needs a reality check. It will be our downfall.

I think Bowen being included and Grealish not isn't how i'd of gone either. Bowen will not freighten top world class defenders like Grealish can.

[Harry]

38 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I agree I'm struggling to see who grealish and maddison replace in the squad 

Maddison instead of Eze. Yes, Eze is a good player but he’s not at the same level as Maddison yet. 
Grealish for Gordon. Again, Gordon is good but Grealish is much more clever and intricate. 

26 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Southgate has been criticised for being too loyal and not taking account of form. Now when he is decisive and leaves out players who have not been in form he gets criticised for that.

Though that usually boils down to little more than 'he didn't pick my favourite player' rather than anything more objective.

Who’s in form?

Dunk? He’s been a horror show vs Branthwaite who’s been statistically the 2nd best centre back in the country. 
 

Bowen? Good 2023 but he’s not really set 2024 alight yet? 
 

Toney? What actually has he done since coming back from 9 months out? 
 

Shaw? Hasn’t played in forever and will no doubt break down again. 
 

Stones? Rarely played all season. Only played in 2 of the last 10 league matches. 
 

Konsa? Conceded 24 goals in his last 10 games. Is that good form? 
 

Gomez? Only started 17 league games all season and in the games he’s played he’s only been part of 1 clean sheet in the last 14! 
 

If you’re picking on form, Lloyd Kelly has been a better left back than anyone else currently fit. Solanke should be way ahead of Toney. Branthwaite would be your best CB. Sancho would be in. Etc etc. 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

and let’s face it, Southgate has never been a fan of Grealish. Took an age to bring him into the squad. He’s had 36 caps of which only 15 were starts and he’s only given him the full 90 on 4 occasions. 
His talent should have seen him on 60+ caps already but Southgate has just never really liked him

Replace Southgate with Pep in what you've just said 

Same 

Funny how at the highest level top managers don't seem to fancy Grealish... 

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Replace Southgate with Pep in what you've just said 

Same 

Funny how at the highest level top managers don't seem to fancy Grealish... 

it does seem odd that higher profile managers don’t rate him. There must be elements missing from his game that they notice but the average fan doesn’t see. 

It could be something simple like not tracking back enough or maybe something about Jack himself and he doesn’t bond well with his teammates - who knows………

To me he’s a flair players, something of a luxury but useful to use late in a game with tiring opposition. His ball skills and quick feet can cause chaos and win free kicks or penalties. 

[Harry]

45 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Replace Southgate with Pep in what you've just said 

Same 

Funny how at the highest level top managers don't seem to fancy Grealish... 

he’s only ever played under 1 “top level” manager and was an integral part of a treble. 
This season was beset with injury and then he couldn’t oust a scintillating Doku. 
I don’t think we can conclude that “highest top level” managers don’t fancy him when the only “highest top level” manager he’s played under signed him for a record fee and helped him win a treble. 

24 minutes ago, Robbored said:

it does seem odd that higher profile managers don’t rate him. There must be elements missing from his game that they notice but the average fan doesn’t see. 

It could be something simple like not tracking back enough or maybe something about Jack himself and he doesn’t bond well with his teammates - who knows………

To me he’s a flair players, something of a luxury but useful to use late in a game with tiring opposition. His ball skills and quick feet can cause chaos and win free kicks or penalties. 

Re the tracking back. I presented the stat here the other day. When Doku plays instead of Grealish, Man City are more likely to let in goals. So you can scrub that reason off. 

[Davefevs]

44 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Replace Southgate with Pep in what you've just said 

Same 

Funny how at the highest level top managers don't seem to fancy Grealish... 

I have no beef either way with Grealish.  Re Doku v Grealish, I suspect much of that selection decision comes from the change / evolvement of the system to accommodate Haaland.  Grealish seems to be the sacrifice for Pep.

Southgate may see things similarly, ie who’s the player I’m happy to sacrifice for the benefit of the team (or even an individual).  He’s made a tough call, now up to him to justify it.

What I would say is that I wish Pep had afforded Grealish the same license as he afforded Doku.  The Grealish of the past 18-24 months is a constrained Grealish.  I think he ought to look to move on, and find a club where he’s allowed to excite again.

[Guest]

No Grealish or Rashford to call upon, neither have had the best seasons with their clubs but are both way better than Bowen.  Brave move …

[Guest]

10 hours ago, CheddarReds said:

Thoughts on the squad:

- Thought Branthwaite would go - he's done well this year, great in both boxes, would increase our options as a left-footed CB, at 21 you have to imagine he has a future in an England shirt so would be a good opportunity to get him some tournament experience, even if he doesn't get game time, and I'm particularly surprised he's in over Dunk as others have said. 

- Wharton - really glad he's in, again increases our options as a left footer, and wouldn't be surprised if he and Mainoo get some decent game time next to Rice. Think both of them could complement Rice nicely in years to come. 

- Grealish out - bit surprised at this one, would have expected his place to be more secure than Eze, Bowen and Gordon. Though when I thought about it more, perhaps we should be less surprised Grealish was left out given Rashford's omission - two players who on their day undoubtedly improve this squad and add quality that Eze, Bowen and Gordon don't have, but there's no doubt Eze, Gordon and Bowen have had better seasons. 

Toney and Watkins - seen some surprise they're both going. I'd be disappointed if they didn't. Think Toney is a more direct Kane replacement and you can't ignore the penalty record. Watkins a different, more mobile option who we can use to stretch defences more, also well deserving of his place after an impressive season.

Personally I can’t see why Wharton is in the squad.  It’s like when Sven took a young Walcott to the WC, never made it on the pitch which will be the same case for Wharton. 

[NewquayRed]

Was expecting Bowen to miss out, lacks the quality for me in the final third which was evident again the other nite. Really don’t understand the Grealish decision, plays 20mins turns the game, puts in a shift and doesn’t make it.

Will miss him when we need to either close a game out or un lock a defence through intricate play rather than power or pace. Have to wonder if there are any non football related issues at play here, as this doesn’t make any sense for me. 
 

[Betty Swallocks]

42 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Personally I can’t see why Wharton is in the squad.  It’s like when Sven took a young Walcott to the WC, never made it on the pitch which will be the same case for Wharton. 

Wharton will get minutes at these Euros, and quite a few of them as well, I suspect. 

[Markthehorn]

5 minutes ago, NewquayRed said:

Was expecting Bowen to miss out, lacks the quality for me in the final third which was evident again the other nite. Really don’t understand the Grealish decision, plays 20mins turns the game, puts in a shift and doesn’t make it.

Will miss him when we need to either close a game out or un lock a defence through intricate play rather than power or pace. Have to wonder if there are any non football related issues at play here, as this doesn’t make any sense for me. 
 

Maybe .

Seems like the form of others is probably an excuse for Southgate not to pick him ?

[Silvio Dante]

This should really have been the squad announcement:

 

[1960maaan]

22 minutes ago, NewquayRed said:

Was expecting Bowen to miss out, lacks the quality for me in the final third which was evident again the other nite. Really don’t understand the Grealish decision, plays 20mins turns the game, puts in a shift and doesn’t make it.

Will miss him when we need to either close a game out or un lock a defence through intricate play rather than power or pace. Have to wonder if there are any non football related issues at play here, as this doesn’t make any sense for me. 
 

I like Bowen and think he's a great little player, does he fit into how England play ? I'd say like Watkins, probably not. 
He seems to use more of the pitch than Watkins , turns up wide more often , but we have others to do that. 
I don't rate Grealish , constantly slows play, passes back and rarely takes on or goes past the FB. That said , he's different to what we have and for that he maybe would have got in ahed of Bowen or Watkins. 
I don't think we need 4 strikers when we normally set up with one , Grealish may have been worth a punt just for killing games by getting free kicks. 

[WECANDO]

I would prefer Grealish to play central just behind Kane. His close ball skills can create space to set Kane up and can daw free kicks in dangerous areas. 

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

This should really have been the squad announcement:

 

That is superb 

[RSW8]

The way I look at it, half the players in the squad are ‘fillers’ and highly unlikely to see much, if any, game time obviously subject to injuries etc. 

I therefore look at two things for the squad places. Firstly evolution of the squad and forward planning for future tournaments. This is where I think there is a good case for including Wharton and branthwaite. If these are the future, get them in and let them experience the feel and pressure of a big tournament now. 
 

Secondly and most importantly, if we reach the latter stages of the tournament and play the better teams, inevitably there will be tight games where we need to get a goal or change the direction of the game (not sure if Southgate is tactically astute or brave enough but that is a different conversation).  If I look at the bench in this instance, this is where someone like grealish comes in. He’s not had the best season but he is very capable of picking that one pass or creating a bit of space for something to happen out of nothing in a tight space towards the end of a game.  I personally would have more confidence in grealish doing that than say Bowen, Gordon or even Watkins.  

[grifty]

13 minutes ago, WECANDO said:

I would prefer Grealish to play central just behind Kane. His close ball skills can create space to set Kane up and can daw free kicks in dangerous areas. 

I'd prefer Foden or Bellingham in there than a bloke playing just to fall over and win free kicks.

[MarcusX]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

Maddison instead of Eze. Yes, Eze is a good player but he’s not at the same level as Maddison yet. 
Grealish for Gordon. Again, Gordon is good but Grealish is much more clever and intricate. 

Who’s in form?

Dunk? He’s been a horror show vs Branthwaite who’s been statistically the 2nd best centre back in the country. 
 

Bowen? Good 2023 but he’s not really set 2024 alight yet? 
 

Toney? What actually has he done since coming back from 9 months out? 
 

Shaw? Hasn’t played in forever and will no doubt break down again. 
 

Stones? Rarely played all season. Only played in 2 of the last 10 league matches. 
 

Konsa? Conceded 24 goals in his last 10 games. Is that good form? 
 

Gomez? Only started 17 league games all season and in the games he’s played he’s only been part of 1 clean sheet in the last 14! 
 

If you’re picking on form, Lloyd Kelly has been a better left back than anyone else currently fit. Solanke should be way ahead of Toney. Branthwaite would be your best CB. Sancho would be in. Etc etc. 

 

All fair points, I think the argument that he's gone on form isn't particularly true. You could argue Stones form comes in the way of England appearances, same for Shaw - the rest I'm not sure and if anything Dunk's "form" should have seen him banished after the earlier friendlies

Personally though i don't think the decision is Dunk v Branthwaite as people are making out. It's Branthwait v Guehi, I think Dunk goes either way for experience (albeit in terms of age and club level not international - but we're not blessed with either)

I am more surprised about Grealish than Maddison, especially after Monday night. He's relatively fresh as well - that's one benefit for some of these players that have played less - he also has the experience of being in the squad in the last two tournaments and that's vital once you get into the knockouts.

2 hours ago, LoyalRed said:

Personally I can’t see why Wharton is in the squad.  It’s like when Sven took a young Walcott to the WC, never made it on the pitch which will be the same case for Wharton. 

Did you not watch Monday? Slotted in seamlessly and looked like a real quality. In a midfield that's not steeped in quality or depth he's a great option to have, with Mainoo injured and Trent still an uncertainty he could get more minutes than you'd think - especially if we get any injuries to someone like Rice.

1 hour ago, WECANDO said:

I would prefer Grealish to play central just behind Kane. His close ball skills can create space to set Kane up and can daw free kicks in dangerous areas. 

No chance he gets in ahead of Foden or Bellingham in a 10, IMO. THough I think the 3 behind Kane should all be played with some positional freedom to roam, a bit like the Belgium friendly.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Betty Swallocks said:

Wharton will get minutes at these Euros, and quite a few of them as well, I suspect. 

In place of whom though?  

[2015]

The long and short of it is Southgate rates Bowen higher than Grealish and Dunk higher than Branthwaite which is crazy to me.

[Betty Swallocks]

5 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

In place of whom though?  

He will come off the bench and play as one of the sitting midfielders. He can slot in easily besides Declan Rice or play in his place he DR needs resting.

He’s definitely not going just to make up the numbers. 

[chinapig]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

Maddison instead of Eze. Yes, Eze is a good player but he’s not at the same level as Maddison yet. 
Grealish for Gordon. Again, Gordon is good but Grealish is much more clever and intricate. 

Who’s in form?

Dunk? He’s been a horror show vs Branthwaite who’s been statistically the 2nd best centre back in the country. 
 

Bowen? Good 2023 but he’s not really set 2024 alight yet? 
 

Toney? What actually has he done since coming back from 9 months out? 
 

Shaw? Hasn’t played in forever and will no doubt break down again. 
 

Stones? Rarely played all season. Only played in 2 of the last 10 league matches. 
 

Konsa? Conceded 24 goals in his last 10 games. Is that good form? 
 

Gomez? Only started 17 league games all season and in the games he’s played he’s only been part of 1 clean sheet in the last 14! 
 

If you’re picking on form, Lloyd Kelly has been a better left back than anyone else currently fit. Solanke should be way ahead of Toney. Branthwaite would be your best CB. Sancho would be in. Etc etc. 

 

Fair comment, form was not the right term to use. At the same time you can be a victim of recency bias so the squad would be constantly changing. At one point in the autumn Sterling had a few good games and some people were calling for him to recalled for instance.

Perhaps fit with how you want to play and having suitable options e.g. Bowen as cover for Saka. As Alf Ramsey told Jack Charlton, "I don't just pick the best players, I pick the players I need".

Though my main point was that Southgate gets stick in some quarters regardless of what he does. For some people we could win the tournament and they would complain that he didn't do it in the right way.

I won't go through your entire list but Maddison himself has said his form hasn't been good enough and Pep has said that Grealish hasn't had a good season. Kelly might be in with a shout but for constant injuries.

Defensively we are not blessed with much proven top quality so it's a bit of a Hobson's choice.

For the record I'm a big fan of Grealish, I wouldn't take Dunk and I'd have Solanke over Toney but those are quibbles not fundamental issues.

Good discussion though, cheers.