EURO 2024

[TonyTonyTony]

Just now, The Coach said:

So you believe England deserved the win last night and the overall standard of football under Southgate has been entertaining? 

Yes they deserved to win against a very physical Serbian team, and you have a short memory. England under Southgate are a million miles away from that Roy Hodgson team.

Im not clueless, and with respect you are so glass half empty its ridiculous.

[The Coach]

Just now, TonyTonyTony said:

Yes they deserved to win against a very physical Serbian team, and you have a short memory. England under Southgate are a million miles away from that Roy Hodgson team.

Im not clueless, and with respect you are so glass half empty it’s ridiculous.

Evidently watching a different game then. Negative tactics for 60 minutes while the opposition controls the game and constantly knocks on the door does not warrant a “deserved win”.

 

England under Southgate is now an entirely different team than what Hodgson had. That period of 2012 - 2016 was one of the worst England sides I can remember. Albeit, Hodgson didn’t help himself.

We arguably have the best international side in the world now (defence questionable) with some of the most exciting attacking options this country has seen, and Southgate still cannot utilise them correctly. Nor does Southgate have the tactical intelligence to change things during the game.

As I commented last night. I’ll be glad when Southgate is gone. It’ll take something special to win this tournament. 

 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, The Coach said:

So you believe England deserved the win last night

yes

and the overall standard of football under Southgate has been entertaining?

mixed.

While delivering 0 competition wins in his tenure. One final we should have won also. Clueless…

Do you think we’ve been the best team in Europe / World at any point in his reign?  Do you think we have the best team in Europe / World in this tournament.  Generally we are probably a team around 8th ranked +/- a couple of places, but overhyped.  In many ways Southgate has overachieved in most tournaments he’s taken us too.

International football is generally dull, because it’s often one better team trying to break down a lesser team in a block.  The early games in this comp have been refreshing though.

Edited June 17 by Davefevs

[TonyTonyTony]

2 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Evidently watching a different game then. Negative tactics for 60 minutes while the opposition controls the game and constantly knocks on the door does not warrant a “deserved win”

Serbia had one shot on target mate.

[Three Lions]

20 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Couldn’t believe he’s got away without a red card there!

Slightly wrong, it’s not “no possibility of playing the ball” it’s no attempt to play the ball. Rodri very clearly made no attempt to play the ball - but it was our lads in the VAR room and we know how shit they are.

No possibility to play the ball is bang on from the current law 12. The player didnt get away with a red its was yellow under whats done currently. two seasons ago? red. Red is  now for the very cynical stuff.   

[petehinton]

40 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

There seems to be bewilderment that a team that is losing might try and attack, and therefore the winning team might have to defend a bit, and this from people who apparently watch football every week.

Not just a team losing, a team who literally have nothing to lose at that stage of the game given the others in the group only have 1 point! 

[TV Tom]

11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One thing I will say about us under Southgate, in tournaments the stats bear this out and in some qualifying campaigns.

We are often quite clinical. We don't need 9,10, 12 shots for a goal like some sides often, the question is how much of that is down to him and his approach, how much is down to players that we have.

Southgate tries his best but he's a crap manager, hopefully he ends up at Man Utd or North Bristol  

[Super]

56 minutes ago, The Coach said:

This. 
 

I wasn’t expecting England to go out and hammer Serbia for 90 minutes and put 4 or 5 goals past them. What I did expect is for England to control the majority of the game. Showing some good quick build up play with good chances. We were the complete opposite last night and have been for the majority of time under Southgate.

If I was a Serbia fan. I’d feel somewhat devastated not to walk away with 3 points last night.
 

England were so poor. It’s going to take a lot to step up for Thursdays game against Denmark. At the moment, I don’t have much confidence.

Really? They created next to nothing so no idea how you have come to that conclusion.

[hinsleburg]

52 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Listened to Lee Dixon and Eni Aluko speaking about Trent before the game on ITV after the Denmark game.

LD " In my view Trent is the best passer of the ball in the world currently"

EA " Trent is a generational world class talent"

WTF were those two smoking?

It's fair to say at International level TAA is not a CM. Defensively he's a liability and we were so much better when Gallagher came on and got us pushing higher.

He may deliver a ball at set pieces, but you can't shoehorn him into the team on that basis.

Agreed on Trent, if you want to shoe horn him into the team play him at LB for now.

Rice is good enough defensively to play in a 2 with Bellingham, means you can get Foden central (or play Palmer there) and you then have more attacking outlets. It doesn't stop Bellingham arriving late in the box like the goal as he didn't really play as a 10 all night.

Saka was a great outlet first half but all became too predictable because there was no width left.

Job done last night though and with the other game being a draw puts us in a good spot

[TonyTonyTony]

10 minutes ago, Super said:

Really? They created next to nothing so no idea how you have come to that conclusion.

Yes but they bossed us. With a team xG of 0.18 

Edited June 17 by TonyTonyTony

[Jose]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree with what you say normally but the argument he may have over achieved is so far off the mark. I get you don’t rate our team as highly as others but his record against anyone remotely decent is an embarrassment. Isn’t it something stupid like 5 wins in 28 against top ten teams? Stats wise going forward our squad is one of the better if not best across the 5 best European leagues. 
 

The reason he gets stick is he just never learns. Only have to look back to Croatia where we score early and sit back. Italy the same thing happened. Even against France he decided to react rather than be pro active with his changes. 
 

It’s boring dull football. Great to have the three points and if it looked like he was learning it wouldn’t be an issue but we can all see where this is going. 

 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

Agreed on Trent, if you want to shoe horn him into the team play him at LB for now.

Rice is good enough defensively to play in a 2 with Bellingham, means you can get Foden central (or play Palmer there) and you then have more attacking outlets. It doesn't stop Bellingham arriving late in the box like the goal as he didn't really play as a 10 all night.

Saka was a great outlet first half but all became too predictable because there was no width left.

Job done last night though and with the other game being a draw puts us in a good spot

Think it shows we have an unbalanced squad for how we want to play.

I’d still play Trent, but at RB, but allow him to roam.  Pros and Cons…almost 442 with Bellingham and Rice as the two, and then have Toney or Watkins with Kane…and play a tad more direct at times.

The fluidity we had from Foden and Bellingham first half, disappeared second half.

[Roger Red Hat]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/16/fans-left-sidelined-and-with-nowhere-to-go-thanks-to-uefas-bumbling-genius

[AshtonGreat]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think it shows we have an unbalanced squad for how we want to play.

I’d still play Trent, but at RB, but allow him to roam.  Pros and Cons…almost 442 with Bellingham and Rice as the two, and then have Toney or Watkins with Kane…and play a tad more direct at times.

The fluidity we had from Foden and Bellingham first half, disappeared second half.

Over Walker? That would be a bad idea

[cidercity1987]

8 hours ago, North London Red said:

The transport and organisation tonight were shambolic. Many fans who’ve done multiple tournaments are saying it’s one of the worst they’ve experienced. And if we win the group*, we’ll get to do it all again in the last 16. 
 

*not taking anything for granted here. Still need to qualify, etc. 

Any tips for the second round game in Gersenkirchen? I was planning to go to the fanzone at the racecourse and then tram it direct to the stadium. But that sounds like something of a non starter based on yesterday? Thanks

[And Its Smith]

31 minutes ago, Super said:

Really? They created next to nothing so no idea how you have come to that conclusion.

They controlled the game though so must have chosen to create nothing!  He’s a coach but not sure what sport! 

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Jose said:

I agree with what you say normally but the argument he may have over achieved is so far off the mark. I get you don’t rate our team as highly as others but his record against anyone remotely decent is an embarrassment. Isn’t it something stupid like 5 wins in 28 against top ten teams? Stats wise going forward our squad is one of the better if not best across the 5 best European leagues. 
 

The reason he gets stick is he just never learns. Only have to look back to Croatia where we score early and sit back. Italy the same thing happened. Even against France he decided to react rather than be pro active with his changes. 
 

It’s boring dull football. Great to have the three points and if it looked like he was learning it wouldn’t be an issue but we can all see where this is going. 

 

Maybe not overachieved, but he’s done pretty well to get to semis and finals.

[The Nest Egg]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Not sure it would have made a significant difference given the Serbs hate the UK too after we bombed Belgrade in 1999 (I think Allied forces bombed it in 1944 too). 

Trust me on this one KOTR; while they may have some remaining acrimony towards us it is nothing compared to the hatred from the nations they were in active conflict with during the 90s. Serbia-Bosnia and Serbia-Kosovo cannot even be played as fixtures. Serbia played Albania in 2014 and the game was abandoned following violence - someone flew a drone with a flag of Greater Albania over the pitch and things got really bad.

I hope this hasn't come across as smacking your viewpoint down! The breakup of Yugoslavia is something I have read into quite extensively and I also visited Bosnia this year to learn more. It was genuinely the friendliest place I have ever been to and I had a great time with Bozniaks, Croats and Serbs alike.

While the chance of Serbia-Albania happening this year is low, it could need to be behind closed doors or severely reduced attendance due to the risks involved.

 

Edited June 17 by The Nest Egg

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Over Walker? That would be a bad idea

Yes.  Maybe.  But if people want us to be more entertaining….

[TonyTonyTony]

The big plus for me was the defence. Lots of talk before the game about it being our weakest link, but Guehi was very good and Stones looked solid considering he has not had much game time. Walker solid too. Hope Shaw gets fit to play soon as well.

As for all this talk about Foden played as a number 10 - its very simple - Bellingham will go close to winning the Ballon D'or playing as number 10. Why on earth would you move him? Foden has to up his game, quite simply or be replaced by Gordon/Eze

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, The Nest Egg said:

Trust me on this one KOTR; while they may have some remaining acrimony towards us it is nothing compared to the hatred from the nations they were in active conflict with during the 90s. Serbia-Bosnia and Serbia-Kosovo cannot even be played as fixtures. Serbia played Albania in 2014 and the game was abandoned following violence - someone flew a drone with a flag of Greater Albania over the pitch and things got really bad.

I hope this hasn't come across as smacking your viewpoint down! The breakup of Yugoslavia is something I have read into quite extensively and I also visited Bosnia this year to learn more.

While the chance of Serbia-Albania happening this year is low, it could need to be behind closed doors or severely reduced attendance due to the risks involved.

Yes, was just pointing out that the Serbs wouldn't need much more encouragement with England in town.

I've been to Belgrade and you can still see bullet holes in some buildings from the airstrikes. The US embassy was quite a sight too, a three storey building with no windows on the front, and huge fences at the front, due to security risk!

[North London Red]

12 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Any tips for the second round game in Gersenkirchen? I was planning to go to the fanzone at the racecourse and then tram it direct to the stadium. But that sounds like something of a non starter based on yesterday? Thanks

Avoid the racecourse like the plague. It’s being promoted by UEFA solely to get people out of the way for as long as possible. I didn’t go to it yesterday (as I’d read some horror stories about the Scottish fan zone in Munich, running out of beer and not enough toilets etc), but am told by others that it was a free-for-all when trying to get on a bus from the racecourse to the stadium, with the sharpest elbows prevailing. And genuinely quite scary for anyone with children, as the risk of being crushed or separated from others in your group was very real. 

[The Bard]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes.  Maybe.  But if people want us to be more entertaining….

They are clueless though Dave. They would be the first to criticise if Southgate did that and it didn't work. 

[mozo]

1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Christ, what a bunch of whiners some are on here.

Just take yourself back to Euro 2016 if you want to be reminded of how shit were were, not that long ago. 

We shouldn't be comparing our current performance with cherry picked examples of when we were worse.

We should be aiming to reach our potential, which given the abundance of talent that the squad has, should be capable of beating good teams in tournaments.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

And they started booting us too.  They turned it into a more physical game, and I don’t think we deal with that very well.  The pressed us higher and made us go long.  Kane did admirably, but Saka and Foden have then got to get around him.

It never ceases to amaze me that when under the cosh a bit that Pickford is still trying to play goalkicks inside our box.  It might give us space, but ultimately we end up hitting a long ball to an isolated Kane.  Scotland did the same against Germany.  Sometimes you have to move away from the “perfect” (?) plan and change the flow of the game, to regain the ascendancy.

It was still a game we deserved to win, but we made harder work of it than we needed to having got the early lead.

Same thoughts as me Dave.

It's the same as many City MDTs, where City fans seem to ignore the fact that there is an opposition team on the pitch and what they do, the tactics they employ and how they play can all impact the game - it's not just that the England ( or City) players switch off and let the opposition back into the game

Serbia are a physical team and it was noticeable that they upped their physical aggression, closed us down much quicker and in so doing pushed us back so we didn't have the time and space we enjoyed in the early part of the game. 

It's all too easy to blame the manager/head coach for not responding in order to counter the opposition, but sometimes that is just easier said than done. For what it's worth Bowen and Callagher were more physically robust options than TAA and Saka, who they replaced, so I thought them the right options.

[Jose]

3 minutes ago, The Bard said:

They are clueless though Dave. They would be the first to criticise if Southgate did that and it didn't work. 

That’s the point though. It doesn’t work. We get through due to the fact we have better players. In the latter stages the negative mentality doesn’t work as has been shown in our last three exits. 

[The Bard]

52 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Southgate tries his best but he's a crap manager, hopefully he ends up at Man Utd or North Bristol  

He's not a crap manager though is he?

 

3 tournaments Semis, final, quarters. 

[TonyTonyTony]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

We should be aiming to reach our potential, which given the abundance of talent that the squad has, should be capable of beating good teams in tournaments.

Nobody is denying that i don't think? 

However some of the ultra - negativity is weird. Saying "Serbia should have won that game", when they had one shot on target is off the scale bizarre.

3 points, half an hour of very good football, solid defence and no injuries. That will do me, as we build a bit of momentum in the tournament

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Nobody is denying that i don't think? 

However some of the ultra - negativity is weird. Saying "Serbia should have won that game", when they had one shot on target is off the scale bizarre.

3 points, half an hour of very good football, solid defence and no injuries. That will do me, as we build a bit of momentum in the tournament

Oh got you. I didn't see that kind of comment and I won't speak on their behalf. 

I think your assessment is still more positive than mine, and we have to factor in the concerning friendly performances. 

The talent we have is way beyond most of the teams in this tournament, and it would be nice to see high standards. Besides Bellingham, I personally saw very average standards last night.

I didn't like the passive, low energy second half, or the substitutions (too little, too late).

Barney Ronay did a great summary in the guardian (as always).

[KegCity]

We will play much better if we stop shoehorning players into the side. Play the best team, not the best 11 players.

Either play Trent at RB or bench him. Either play foden through the middle or bench him.