EURO 2024

[grifty]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

We will play much better if we stop shoehorning players into the side. Play the best team, not the best 11 players.

Either play Trent at RB or bench him. Either play foden through the middle or bench him.

I do agree with this. I think Foden just had a stinker of a night rather than anything to do with tactics. The last 10 minutes he couldn’t make a 5 yard pass which isn’t affected by where he plays.

[Kid in the Riot]

27 minutes ago, The Bard said:

He's not a crap manager though is he?

 

3 tournaments Semis, final, quarters. 

Yeah but Middlesbrough 

[KegCity]

7 minutes ago, grifty said:

I do agree with this. I think Foden just had a stinker of a night rather than anything to do with tactics. The last 10 minutes he couldn’t make a 5 yard pass which isn’t affected by where he plays.

He’s consistently poor for England, but either way he’s not our best 10 and he’s not our best left winger. Either drop Bellingham back to sit with Rice or drop Foden and play Eze/Gordon.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, KegCity said:

We will play much better if we stop shoehorning players into the side. Play the best team, not the best 11 players.

Either play Trent at RB or bench him. Either play foden through the middle or bench him.

I do agree with this, hence my unbalanced squad comment earlier.  We probably have a couple of players who aren’t suited to a position / role (TAA / Foden) in the system that Southgate plays.  The problem (?j is the quality of the players that might fit.

The thing I liked about Sven was he picked players he thought were best/ most effective for his system, not necessarily the best club players.  Players like Trevor Sinclair.

[KegCity]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I do agree with this, hence my unbalanced squad comment earlier.  We probably have a couple of players who aren’t suited to a position / role (TAA / Foden) in the system that Southgate plays.  The problem (?j is the quality of the players that might fit.

The thing I liked about Sven was he picked players he thought were best/ most effective for his system, not necessarily the best club players.  Players like Trevor Sinclair.

I think Gordon/Eze and Wharton playing would make us a better team, hopefully we give it a go before the knockout stages.

[Sir Geoff]

20 minutes ago, KegCity said:

We will play much better if we stop shoehorning players into the side. Play the best team, not the best 11 players.

Either play Trent at RB or bench him. Either play foden through the middle or bench him.

Roy Keane was bang on, a few weeks ago on 'Stick to Football' pod.' Basically said if you play Trent as one of the 2, defensively he will be a liability. Good going forward (ala that crossfield pass in the 2nd half). Think Roy was spot on, Trent so nearly cost us a couple of times.

[North London Red]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

I get you don’t rate our team as highly as others but his record against anyone remotely decent is an embarrassment. Isn’t it something stupid like 5 wins in 28 against top ten teams? . 

 

There was a stat the did the rounds on Twitter after we lost to Brazil back in March. I posted on here at the time that it was incorrect; his record against top ten teams is better than that stat suggested. 
 

There’s also the effect whereby any team England beat automatically become a poor team in the critics’ eyes. Plenty were predicting England’s downfall against Colombia and Sweden in 2018; as soon as England got through both games we were told ‘opposition were rubbish, let’s see how you get on against a proper team’. Knock Germany out of the last Euros? Worst German team in history. Beat Italy home and away in qualifying? Worst Italian team in history. Beat the champions of Africa 3-0? You’d never have beaten them if Mane had been playing. Beat a team who’ve finished in the top 3 at the last two world cups (Croatia)? They’re obviously finished as a team. Beat the world’s number 1 ranked team in the nations league? They’re obviously rubbish too. 

[Sir Geoff]

12 minutes ago, KegCity said:

He’s consistently poor for England, but either way he’s not our best 10 and he’s not our best left winger. Either drop Bellingham back to sit with Rice or drop Foden and play Eze/Gordon.

Thought last night was one of his (slightly) better games for England, despite being on the left. Southgate could have given him 10 minutes or so on the right when he took Saka off and put Gordon on the left. I think it was probably a bit of a vote of confidence thing keeping him on for the 90.

[TV Tom]

50 minutes ago, The Bard said:

He's not a crap manager though is he?

 

3 tournaments Semis, final, quarters. 

Serial loser

[TonyTonyTony]

7 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Serial loser

I muesli agree with you, but not this time

[cityexile]

Ten Hag having a little dig on Dutch TV. Talks a good game…

It’s the vision of the manager [Southgate],” said Ten Hag, after England’s form dipped in the second half after impressing in the opening 45 minutes. “England will take a 1-0 lead, then he [Southgate] decides to start gambling with making his team compact and relying on moments for the remaining minutes of the game.”

Would not argue with the overall sentiment. Seen it posted that the 11 total shots in the game last night was the lowest in the Euros since the 80’s, when it started being measured. Having said that, our closest moment or two did not end up with a shot.

[MarcusX]

17 hours ago, frenchred said:

After being in Marseille that fateful night v Russia, I will never ever believe our press again

Absolute lying ******* the lot of them

I was also there, I'm interested what bit you mean

Only because my memory is a bit foggy on what was reported and I was lucky enough to avoid everything.

I was down on the waterfront moments before the trouble happened but must have got away at the right time after collecting my ticket - and then the trouble in the ground was in the opposite corner from me. I could see it happening but wasn't involved. Afterwards was fine, we were stood outside the ground waiting for mates as all the Russians poured out and there was no trouble whatsoever.

[cidercity1987]

32 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yeah but Middlesbrough 

I think Southgate is a decent international manager as

a) an acceptable figurehead for the FA

b) with an ability to bring a group together in a harmonious atmosphere

He fails tactically though and for that reason I think he would still be a useless club manager 

 

[transfer reader]

5 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I muesli agree with you, but not this time

Going against the grain I see

[MarcusX]

15 minutes ago, North London Red said:

There was a stat the did the rounds on Twitter after we lost to Brazil back in March. I posted on here at the time that it was incorrect; his record against top ten teams is better than that stat suggested. 
 

There’s also the effect whereby any team England beat automatically become a poor team in the critics’ eyes. Plenty were predicting England’s downfall against Colombia and Sweden in 2018; as soon as England got through both games we were told ‘opposition were rubbish, let’s see how you get on against a proper team’. Knock Germany out of the last Euros? Worst German team in history. Beat Italy home and away in qualifying? Worst Italian team in history. Beat the champions of Africa 3-0? You’d never have beaten them if Mane had been playing. Beat a team who’ve finished in the top 3 at the last two world cups (Croatia)? They’re obviously finished as a team. Beat the world’s number 1 ranked team in the nations league? They’re obviously rubbish too. 

This is absolutely bang on.

Pre-game: England shouldn't take this for granted, Serbia are no mugs

Post-game: Cant believe it's only 1-0 we should have hammered Serbia

There is a culture in this country of loving to hate England and it's frankly embarrasing and bizarre.

Heard so many shit takes from people since the game.

Was it a good all round performance? Absolutely not.

Did we do exactly what was needed eg win the game? Yes.

Before Southgate we were terrible at opening group games... 4/4 for Gareth so far.

I agree with the comments about shoe-horning players in and I'm not sure Foden fits this "style" with the players around him. I think last night gave us more questions than answers but I also think it was a dogged display, a reasonably comfortable clean sheet (they had one shot from range didnt they?) and but for a great save it's 2-0 and games over.

Do I think we win the tournament based on that performance? No course not (but I dont think we win it anyway)

Do I think we'll grow into it and improve? Yes definitely

Were there positives? Several. Bellingham is class and he's ready, Guehi answered some critics, Rice was immense - if not largely under the radar in his work, and we showed a lot of experience to see out the game (except that quick free kick)

We've drawn that in previous years, 2016 for example against Russia. 

[TV Tom]

9 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I muesli agree with you, but not this time

No skin off my porridge Tone, but he would of been sacked ages ago if he was manager of any other big footballing nation

[Phileas Fogg]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure about your assessment of England’s quality. I appreciate lots of it is subjective, but I think the only team I’d confidently say is ‘better’ (on paper) at this tournament is France. 

That is an on paper assessment rather than how we function as a cohesive squad though, so I wouldn’t necessarily fancy us against Italy/Spain/Germany as I think this team struggles with disciplined sides that know how to manage games effectively. Likewise at a world level I’d feel the same about Argentina/Brazil. 

That said, no one at this tournament would want to draw England. Outside of France, we’d probably be the least desirable knockout draw.

 

[OneCity]

32 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

I think Southgate is a decent international manager as

a) an acceptable figurehead for the FA

b) with an ability to bring a group together in a harmonious atmosphere

He fails tactically though and for that reason I think he would still be a useless club manager 

 

Saw this belter of a comment on a youtube video of last night's highlights. Pretty much sums it up for me.

"If Southgate discovered a small fire in his kitchen, he’d sit with his hands in his pockets, staring blankly at it and thinking ‘let’s see how this pans out for another half hour before I do anything’.

Then he’d switch the kettle and toaster around and hope for the best"

 

[AppyDAZE]

12 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

Still trying to recover from the (uncharacteristic) utter awfulness of the BBC coverage. Constantly banging on about winning the competition, how Bellingham is the love child re-incarnated of Pele and Beckenbaur, then how it wouldn’t be England if we weren’t suffering, intermixed with embarrassing puns and stupid pre- rehearsed lines. Studio analysis ok but match commentary a complete embarrassment. Better than channel 4 admittedly, but light years away from Motty etc.

Agreed. That commentator was as annoying as they come. So close to watching without the sound up.

[2015]

50 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Ten Hag having a little dig on Dutch TV. Talks a good game…

It’s the vision of the manager [Southgate],” said Ten Hag, after England’s form dipped in the second half after impressing in the opening 45 minutes. “England will take a 1-0 lead, then he [Southgate] decides to start gambling with making his team compact and relying on moments for the remaining minutes of the game.”

Would not argue with the overall sentiment. Seen it posted that the 11 total shots in the game last night was the lowest in the Euros since the 80’s, when it started being measured. Having said that, our closest moment or two did not end up with a shot.

The only thing i'd argue about that though is it seems England can't really win no matter what.

In the past we've gone for it on opening games and lost/drew. Take Euro 2004 for example, probably the best opening performance i've ever seen from any England side, and we lost 2-1. Even worse, Euro 2000 2-0 up vs Portugal in the first 20 minutes, lacked any kind of discipline and ended up losing 3-2. We'd get absolutely crucified if that happened last night. 

Southgate in the KOs I agree, cannot play that style because the likes of France, Spain, Germany, Italy will pick you off, BUT opening game you just get the win and it takes the pressure off and momentum builds.

England can't win no matter what. We're the easiest nation to criticise, until we actually win a major tournament that will never change imo.

Edited June 17 by 2015

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not sure about your assessment of England’s quality. I appreciate lots of it is subjective, but I think the only team I’d confidently say is ‘better’ (on paper) at this tournament is France. 

That is an on paper assessment rather than how we function as a cohesive squad though, so I wouldn’t necessarily fancy us against Italy/Spain/Germany as I think this team struggles with disciplined sides that know how to manage games effectively. Likewise at a world level I’d feel the same about Argentina/Brazil. 

That said, no one at this tournament would want to draw England. Outside of France, we’d probably be the least desirable knockout draw.

 

Fair.

But….even if one team France is better than us (and most of us agree France are) that means an expectation of winning the tournament is not reasonable.  Getting the final (assuming the draw allow that’s, I haven’t checked) is met expectations?

[Markthehorn]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

I think Southgate is a decent international manager as

a) an acceptable figurehead for the FA

b) with an ability to bring a group together in a harmonious atmosphere

He fails tactically though and for that reason I think he would still be a useless club manager 

 

After Big Sam they probably wanted a Southgate type manager and he knew the players coming through who play now.

Not sure there is anyone out who would want the job that we can guarantee would be much better. tbh...

Or play more attacking exciting football

 

[Port Said Red]

I thought that we struggled against a big and physical side, especially in the 2nd half. Even Bellingham was getting knocked around, and I think their Manager did well to get them to channel that aggression in the 2nd half, after the bookings in the 1st half.

I can also understand Rice in particular, dropping very deep at times, it made sense with a defence that has had little experience together, also he was one of the few that could match up physically.

It reminded me a little of the 3-2 WC game against Cameroon many moons ago, but I certainly never felt as nervous as Guy Mowbray who seemed to be almost willing Serbia to score so he could be satisfied with his worries.

I think Serbia will finish second in the group too.

[2015]

Just now, Port Said Red said:

I thought that we struggled against a big and physical side, especially in the 2nd half. Even Bellingham was getting knocked around, and I think their Manager did well to get them to channel that aggression in the 2nd half, after the bookings in the 1st half.

I can also understand Rice in particular, dropping very deep at times, it made sense with a defence that has had little experience together, also he was one of the few that could match up physically.

It reminded me a little of the 3-2 WC game against Cameroon many moons ago, but I certainly never felt as nervous as Guy Mowbray who seemed to be almost willing Serbia to score so he could be satisfied with his worries.

I think Serbia will finish second in the group too.

I hope so. Always been an admirer of Dragan Stojkovic (the manager), the best player most people have never heard of. He was absolutely class back in the 90s, as were Yugoslavia despite the war going on at home.

They're no mugs, several top flight players across the top European leagues - Milinkovic-Savic, Tadic, Vlahovic, Mitrovic, Jovic, Lukic. 

I think they are in for some very even affairs vs Denmark and Slovenia.

[cidercity1987]

23 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

After Big Sam they probably wanted a Southgate type manager and he knew the players coming through who play now.

Not sure there is anyone out who would want the job that we can guarantee would be much better. tbh...

Or play more attacking exciting football

 

Agree

It feels like the end of his reign though and Potter should be next as he ticks a lot of boxes whilst being better tactically

[SecretSam]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The thing I liked about Sven was he picked players he thought were best/ most effective for his system, not necessarily the best club players.  Players like Trevor Sinclair.

Errrr...Gerrard AND Lampard, but not Carrick?

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Errrr...Gerrard AND Lampard, but not Carrick?

Don’t get me started!

I was never a huge Carrick fan, and Gerrard and Lampard’s record together was actually pretty good.

Damm, I started…but I’m finishing there!
 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/steven-gerrard/gemeinsameSpiele/spieler/3109/gegner/3163

Edited June 17 by Davefevs

[SecretSam]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Don’t get me started!

I was never a huge Carrick fan, and Gerrard and Lampard’s record together was actually pretty good.

Damm, I started…but I’m finishing there!
 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/steven-gerrard/gemeinsameSpiele/spieler/3109/gegner/3163

And Scholes, not a fan of his, either?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

And Scholes, not a fan of his, either?

Loved Scholes.  Best player we had around that time.

Edited June 17 by Davefevs

[Hxj]

1 hour ago, OneCity said:

"If Southgate discovered a small fire in his kitchen, he’d sit with his hands in his pockets, staring blankly at it and thinking ‘let’s see how this pans out for another half hour before I do anything’.

Then he’d switch the kettle and toaster around and hope for the best"

I find this style of commentary interesting.

You could equally say:

"If Southgate discovered a small fire in his kitchen, he’d sit with his hands in his pockets, staring blankly at it and thinking having analysed the risks and the pros and cons of all available actions decided that with the lack of any real threats right ‘let’s see how this pans out for another half hour before I do anything’."

As part of one job I used to run some negotiation training, sadly nothing more exciting than financial/contract stuff.  However convincing people that just because a negotiation was failing, or other side changed tactics, you didn't have to immediately react was hard work.  Leaving matters to boil away for a while isn't a problem, providing you have considered other actions, and found them unattractive. 

It is not always about what is the best option, its often about choosing one which doesn't commit you along a course of action which might create greater regrets.  Sitting on your hands and doing nothing can be incredibly powerful.