Scott Twine - Signed on Four Year Deal - Official

[BobBobBobbin]

9 minutes ago, Sabby said:

Twine will get us another 10 goals + from his set pieces alone - free kicks corners etc 

It's interesting, because barring the one game that has stuck in the memory for everyone (including me), Twine didn't actually deliver very many good corners and come season end wasn't taking them all the time, Williams and somebody else (My memory has alluded me, maybe Roberts?) were taking them. 

No doubt he's got it in his locker, much like Cristiano Ronaldo has a 40 yard free kick bullet, but the frequency of the "good" ones was a lot less than our perception. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Winning fouls in both halves is a useful skill to have. Scott was good at this, Twine seemed to win a few..obviously you need more and it isn't just a case of goals but breaking up play, getting a bit of a breather- recalibrate etc.

You have to align that with creativity, some Goals and Assists, delivery and making space for others too. As a package if he can, it would be quite good.

[Back of the Dolman]

17 minutes ago, Sabby said:

Twine will get us another 10 goals + from his set pieces alone - free kicks corners etc 

I see you’re new, are you a Burnley representative trying to push the price up

[BobBobBobbin]

56 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I wouldn't worry too much about Armstrong's personal total - It will be down to the whole revamped team to collectively replace Conway's 10 goals - and hopefully more - not just him.

 

indeed, I can't remember many times in this division where we've had a very good season and had a standout goalscorer. Tammy and Kodjia's seasons we weren't far from the drop, Weimann, Ade Akinbiyi, Maynard the same. Our best season at this level since Dicks was with Byfield as top scorer with 8. The only good season where we had a decent return from an individual was Bobby Reid getting 19; although even then the goals were shared too; Fam got 13, Flint 8, Joe B, Josh Brownhill and Pato got 5 each. 

 

functional team trumps elite individual every time. Especially at a place like this, where we have to be the sum of our parts due to comparative budget constraints.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, City Slicker said:

I would argue this. His injury wasn't his fault and it will always take time to integrate with the team. His record of the team with him playing speaks for itself. 

The 10 game Twine sample shows that we actually did fractionally worse with him on the pitch (in those games) than we did when he wasn’t on (subbed off or pre-subbed on).

So his impact is very much up for debate. FWIW I think there were a few things going on in that spell of games, intent, Knight in midfield, opponents etc that make it not about one player improving us. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

indeed, I can't remember many times in this division where we've had a very good season and had a standout goalscorer. Tammy and Kodjia's seasons we weren't far from the drop, Weimann, Ade Akinbiyi, Maynard the same. Our best season at this level since Dicks was with Byfield as top scorer with 8. The only good season where we had a decent return from an individual was Bobby Reid getting 19; although even then the goals were shared too; Fam got 13, Flint 8, Joe B, Josh Brownhill and Pato got 5 each. 

 

functional team trumps elite individual every time. Especially at a place like this, where we have to be the sum of our parts due to comparative budget constraints.

Maynard we finished 10th after a late surge.

Forget how many he got in 2008-09, also 10th. 12 maybe?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, City Slicker said:

@Davefevs How accurate is the fotmob website for stats? 

No idea. Dont use it, sorry. What stats you after?

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Reid scored 20 didn't he...play-off push.

[BCFC31]

1 hour ago, Back of the Dolman said:

Yes I’d noticed that and I hope LM has learnt that it doesn’t work for us.

It just surprises me that people are posting teams for the opening day with Knight in that role and suggesting if we don’t get Twine then Knight can be used there.

No way is knight an attacking midfielder, only thing he does well from that position is press the ball from a higher position.... he doesn't have the mental attributes for a 10. we need someone to come in and make the ball stick up there with good touches thus bringing the rest of the team a few yards higher up the pitch in attack and have the cuteness to play those passes in behind the oppositions defence to get them running back to there own goal  forcing the opposition defence to drop back a few yards! We can get the pace in and around the 10 and in an ideal world he would also be able to chip in with a few goals! the club  need to realise players like that just don't come cheap full stop! It's a very specialist role on the pitch.

Edited July 31 by BCFC31

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

No way it knight an attacking midfielder only thing he does well from that position us press the ball from a higher position he doesn't have the mental attributes for a 10 we need someone to come in and make the ball stick up there with good touches and have the cuteness to play those passes in behind the oppositions defence for our runners and in an ideal world be able to chip in with a few goals the club  need to realise players like that just don't come cheap full stop! It's a very specialist role on the pitch.

Someone in the profile of Swift would be very useful for us IMO.

Moreso than Twine in some ways.

[BCFC31]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The 10 game Twine sample shows that we actually did fractionally worse with him on the pitch (in those games) than we did when he wasn’t on (subbed off or pre-subbed on).

So his impact is very much up for debate. FWIW I think there were a few things going on in that spell of games, intent, Knight in midfield, opponents etc that make it not about one player improving us. 

They was I remember it is our results drastically improved once twine was fit again and playing dave.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, BCFC31 said:

They was I remember it is our results drastically improved once twine was fit again and playing dave.

Are you disputing the information Dave provided or suggesting something else?

In any event as Dave said you can't tie it down to one player. Saying A happened then B happened therefore A caused B isn't good logic.

 

[BCFC31]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Someone in the profile of Swift would be very useful for us IMO.

Moreso than Twine in some ways.

Swift would be class if I remember rightly he always used to be the highest midfielder on stats for assists. He can even play slightly deeper if needed.

Edited July 31 by BCFC31

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

They was I remember it is our results drastically improved once twine was fit again and playing dave.

I’ve quoted the game by game facts earlier in this thread.

In those 10 games with Twine on the pitch 15 points would’ve been earned.

In those 10 games without Twine on the pitch we would’ve earned 16 points.

However I think what many will say is that the results in that 10 game spell were better than the other 36.  Which is true.

But saying Twine was the reason is subjective. There were other factors. 

Edited July 31 by Davefevs

[BCFC31]

2 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Are you disputing the information Dave provided or suggesting something else?

In any event as Dave said you can't tie it down to one player. Saying A happened then B happened therefore A caused B isn't good logic.

 

No I am just saying results actually improved when twine came into the fold. Weather that's as a result of twine him self doing twine things or a complete coincidence  is another thing.

Edited July 31 by BCFC31

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

Swift would be class if I remember rightly he always used to be the highest midfielder on stats for assists. He can if needed play deeper aswell.

My thinking with Swift is that he can get the G+A. The creativity.

Plus playing deeper can (on paper) enable us more easily to slot into a central 3/barrier of 5 out of possession if needed.

Edited July 31 by Mr Popodopolous

[Henry]

52 minutes ago, Sabby said:

Twine will get us another 10 goals + from his set pieces alone - free kicks corners etc 

You forgot we were one of the top teams for set pieces goals before Twine joined. Even when he joined, he didn’t take every set piece. 

[Ian M]

1 hour ago, stokes7 said:

The fact they are still trying to get twine makes me think they literally have no other targets, it’s not as if he is amazing surely there are other number 10s around 

Maybe numbers 2, 3 & 4 on our list of #10s have been bought now by other suitors?

[ooRya]

12 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

No I am just saying results actually improved when twine came into the fold. Weather that's as a result of twine him self doing twine things or a complete coincidence  is another thing.

Exactly this.

Stats can be very useful, but sometimes I would rather go with what I saw with my own eyes.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, westonred said:

I wish i had your confidence i just cant see where the goals are coming from

I wouldn't say confident, but it's pre season and I'm trying to be optimistic at this stage.

I'm hoping for more goals from around the team - from Atkinson and Dickie at set pieces and also from midfield and out wide, players like Hirakawa, Sykes, Mehmeti, Bell, Stokes, even Twine or ANO.

I agree we've got no idea about Armstrong and Mayulu, both far from 1st choice signings, and in the worst scenario they could both be abject failures.

Armstrong could follow his record at QPR and score 1 goal before Christmas or he could bulldoze his way to a hat trick at Hull and become an instant hero. So at this stage he remains intriguing because you fel with him almost anything could happen. He's certainly looked better than I expected so far.

Fally must be more accomplished than we've seen up to now, so I won't judge him until he's settled in and his confidence is up. Conway's 10 goals over a season is not that big a target for him to aim for though, and if he does that in his first season he'll be doing OK imo., and anything above that is a bonus.

All in all I'm not seeing the loss of Conway and Weimann's joint contribution of 11 league goals last season as anything to worry about.

 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, ooRya said:

Exactly this.

Stats can be very useful, but sometimes I would rather go with what I saw with my own eyes.

Haha, I’m using both (give me some bloody credit), watching games where I thought he was average. Obviously has a creative tendency so lots of oohs and ahs stuff, but also lost the ball lots, weak in the challenge, a bit too much of a luxury.

So as some form of discussion, what did you see?  I could claim all you’ve done is look at results / stats because I’ve not seen you explain any other reasons , ie what you saw with your eyes. Causation v Correlation?  And the correlation isn’t even strong. 

Edited July 31 by Davefevs

[ExiledAjax]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Haha, I’m using both (give me some bloody credit), watching games where I thought he was average. Obviously has a creative tendency so lots of oohs and ahs stuff, but also lost the ball lots, weak in the challenge, a bit too much of a luxury.

It's very exciting to know that we're putting so much effort into signing Kasey Palmer 2.0.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's very exciting to know that we're putting so much effort into signing Kasey Palmer 2.0.

Plus, like KP2, he possibly isn't the best out of possession leaving us vulnerable in transition. There is an element of my own tactical biases too obvs.

[ooRya]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Haha, I’m using both (give me some bloody credit), watching games where I thought he was average. Obviously has a creative tendency so lots of oohs and ahs stuff, but also lost the ball lots, weak in the challenge, a bit too much of a luxury.

So as some form of discussion, what did you see?  I could claim all you’ve done is look at results / stats because I’ve not seen you explain any other reasons , ie what you saw with your eyes. Causation v Correlation?  And the correlation isn’t even strong. 

No need to get on your high horse, it wasn't a dig aimed at you particularly.

What I saw, was a change from the endless, no purpose, sideways and backwards passing, to becoming more purposeful and using the possession at the back to find players in midfield who were now finding pockets and making runs. How much of this was either directly or indirectly down to Twine coming into the team I have no idea, and I'll readily admit that I don't study the game to the obvious depth that you do.

So it could be total co-incidence, maybe not, but I enjoyed the last quarter of the season with him in the team far more than I did the previous 3 quarters.

[Simon bristol]

4 minutes ago, ooRya said:

No need to get on your high horse, it wasn't a dig aimed at you particularly.

What I saw, was a change from the endless, no purpose, sideways and backwards passing, to becoming more purposeful and using the possession at the back to find players in midfield who were now finding pockets and making runs. How much of this was either directly or indirectly down to Twine coming into the team I have no idea, and I'll readily admit that I don't study the game to the obvious depth that you do.

So it could be total co-incidence, maybe not, but I enjoyed the last quarter of the season with him in the team far more than I did the previous 3 quarters.

I thought twine coming back in allowed knight to move back and that was as responsible for the upturn as anything, but it coincided with the unbeaten run up to the stoke game.

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, ooRya said:

No need to get on your high horse, it wasn't a dig aimed at you particularly.

What I saw, was a change from the endless, no purpose, sideways and backwards passing, to becoming more purposeful and using the possession at the back to find players in midfield who were now finding pockets and making runs. How much of this was either directly or indirectly down to Twine coming into the team I have no idea, and I'll readily admit that I don't study the game to the obvious depth that you do.

So it could be total co-incidence, maybe not, but I enjoyed the last quarter of the season with him in the team far more than I did the previous 3 quarters.

I think we can attribute the change in style to Manning being told to change the style as he was close to the sack, rather than the influence of having Twine in the team.

[Supersonic Robin]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think we can attribute the change in style to Manning being told to change the style as he was close to the sack, rather than the influence of having Twine in the team.

When talking about the positive upturn in results towards the end of the season, it's also very important to remember that I think we had (statistically) the easiest run of fixtures of any team in the league.

[supercidered]

I'm not ITK. Rumour of an announcement literally about now. My so just sent me a screenshot on my phone. 

 

1 minute ago, supercidered said:

I'm not ITK. Rumour of an announcement literally about now. My so just sent me a screenshot on my phone. 

 

FFS 

It was just the new black kit !

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, ooRya said:

No need to get on your high horse, it wasn't a dig aimed at you particularly.

What I saw, was a change from the endless, no purpose, sideways and backwards passing, to becoming more purposeful and using the possession at the back to find players in midfield who were now finding pockets and making runs. How much of this was either directly or indirectly down to Twine coming into the team I have no idea, and I'll readily admit that I don't study the game to the obvious depth that you do.

So it could be total co-incidence, maybe not, but I enjoyed the last quarter of the season with him in the team far more than I did the previous 3 quarters.

High horse dismounted, apologies.  Ta for response.

i enjoyed post-Easter too, it was much better than pre-Easter where I’d have rather shoved hot toffee apples into my eye sockets!

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, ooRya said:

Exactly this.

Stats can be very useful, but sometimes I would rather go with what I saw with my own eyes.

I agree with you. So I didn’t rate him as someone special in the “tin opener” role.

There are probably many better in the role but costing a lot more than we want to pay for Twine.

[One Team]

5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I agree with you. So I didn’t rate him as someone special in the “tin opener” role.

There are probably many better in the role but costing a lot more than we want to pay for Twine.

Love the ‘clubs in the bag’ move to ‘utensils in the drawer’! LJ will be nicking this!

On Twine though it feels to me like we need to move on from him if we haven’t already. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think we can attribute the change in style to Manning being told to change the style as he was close to the sack, rather than the influence of having Twine in the team.

Not quite sure why this post attracted a few face palms when what I posted was common knowledge.

[BLRed]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve quoted the game by game facts earlier in this thread.

In those 10 games with Twine on the pitch 15 points would’ve been earned.

In those 10 games without Twine on the pitch we would’ve earned 16 points.

However I think what many will say is that the results in that 10 game spell were better than the other 36.  Which is true.

But saying Twine was the reason is subjective. There were other factors. 

Tell me you dont want twine without telling me you dont want twine :laugh:

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Not quite sure why this post attracted a few face palms when what I posted was common knowledge.

Because people don't agree with it and it's a terrible take, 

[ciderwithtommy]

Said this before on a separate thread, but I think how twine moves, where he wants the ball, and what he looks to do with it means even when he is having a poor to average game, he poses a threat and makes the opposition think about whether they track him from CB or midfield. I believe that’s why manning wants him, he knows he does this. Other options are unknown quantities 

[Roger Red Hat]

39 minutes ago, One Team said:

Love the ‘clubs in the bag’ move to ‘utensils in the drawer’! LJ will be nicking this!

On Twine though it feels to me like we need to move on from him if we haven’t already. 

I think we need to move on from moving on..

[Glen hump]

Just now, Roger Red Hat said:

I think we need to move on from moving on..

I’d give it 1 last move before we move on.

[mozo]

52 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Not quite sure why this post attracted a few face palms when what I posted was common knowledge.

I'll believe it when I see it on the official City website.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, BLRed said:

Tell me you dont want twine without telling me you dont want twine

If I thought we’d get him for £2m, I’d say fair enough, but that’s because we know how much LM wants him.  Add in the possibility that he’ll want to be our highest paid player too it doesn’t look as good a deal.  I just think there are other options out there, because we ain’t gonna get him for £2m.

[Sleepy1968]

4 hours ago, Bcfc24 said:

Someone better tell the club they don’t come cheap, as they seem to be waiting for Burnley to roll over and have their belly’s tickled

"Who's a good Burnley? Who's a good Burnley? You're a good Burnley. Yes you are. Sit. Good Burnley. Lay down. Goooood Burnley. Roll over. Roll over? Roll over for £2 million? Please ..."

[Glen hump]

4 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

"Who's a good Burnley? Who's a good Burnley? You're a good Burnley. Yes you are. Sit. Good Burnley. Lay down. Goooood Burnley. Roll over. Roll over? Roll over for £2 million? Please ..."

You ok mate 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, BLRed said:

Tell me you dont want twine without telling me you dont want twine

There are other balls of string available. 

[Sir Geoff]

22 minutes ago, Sabby said:

We should be doing everything to sign him. Very impressed with him when on loan.

Against League one Rotherham, yes he had a decent game. Huddersfield was poor, Stoke well we lost 4-0. I never saw a £4/5 million player. 

[BobBobBobbin]

3 hours ago, ooRya said:

No need to get on your high horse, it wasn't a dig aimed at you particularly.

What I saw, was a change from the endless, no purpose, sideways and backwards passing, to becoming more purposeful and using the possession at the back to find players in midfield who were now finding pockets and making runs. How much of this was either directly or indirectly down to Twine coming into the team I have no idea, and I'll readily admit that I don't study the game to the obvious depth that you do.

So it could be total co-incidence, maybe not, but I enjoyed the last quarter of the season with him in the team far more than I did the previous 3 quarters.

I didn't see any of that. 

The most noticeable change was in the pressing/trigger intensity and the change in depth of our mid-block. We still played round the sides all too often even with Twine in the 10. 

It was enjoyable because we managed to win some games. The in possession stuff wasn't much different to before. We were just 10 yards higher up the pitch. 

[Sleepy1968]

40 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

You ok mate 

[Back of the Dolman]

1 hour ago, Sabby said:

We should be doing everything to sign him. Very impressed with him when on loan.

You’re easily impressed then, but each to their own 

[PortInTheMorning]

40 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

You’re easily impressed then, but each to their own 

[LondonBristolian]

Nine days to the start of the season and still no Twine. However, I reckon if we just go back and offer Burnley £2 million a 97th time then they will definitely crumble.

[SecretSam]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I just think there are other options out there, because we ain’t gonna get him for £2m.

Who are they, Dave? Genuine Q - I'm an infrequent visitor, and I'm not wading through 71pp of Twine/String jokes

[cidercity]

42 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Nine days to the start of the season and still no Twine. However, I reckon if we just go back and offer Burnley £2 million a 97th time then they will definitely crumble.

I see this statement a lot, do we know that City have made the same offer numerous times or is this just another dig at BT.

If it is true then that is just madness but i do not believe this can be true.

[LondonBristolian]

5 minutes ago, cidercity said:

I see this statement a lot, do we know that City have made the same offer numerous times or is this just another dig at BT.

If it is true then that is just madness but i do not believe this can be true.

I’m being a bit flippant. I don’t have any idea how many times we have actually made an offer.

However what I think we know do is:

1) We wanted Twine on a permanent in January. However Burnley would not move on their asking price (said to be £5m)

2) We then loaned Twine. We don’t know for sure what conversations happened about options and future fees but the press reporting suggested there had been discussions about a potential option to buy, but there was not one in the deal which implies we could not agree a fee.

3) At end of the season, we were public about wanting to keep Twine

4) Twine started training in our facilities, which perhaps makes sense if he has family in Swindon but also implies he saw a future here.

5) At the start of the summer, reports seemed to suggest we wanted Twine but at a rate we wanted to pay in January whilst Burnley were open to selling Twine but had not moved on their asking price.

6)Over the last two months, reports have persisted that we want Twine but there is no evidence us or Burnley have moved on the fee. We show no sign of moving on to other targets.

So, whilst I do not know if we literally keep making offers, we know enough to suggest the practical situation is Burnley have set a fee and are not moving on it. We’re not prepared to match it but are not moving on to other targets so, in practice, we are basically hanging around in the hope Burnley drop their asking price and there is no suggestion they will do so.

What worries we is, five years on, I don‘t think we have learned from the Nketiah situation.

[Banjo Red]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I’m being a bit flippant. I don’t have any idea how many times we have actually made an offer.

However what I think we know do is:

1) We wanted Twine on a permanent in January. However Burnley would not move on their asking price (said to be £5m)

2) We then loaned Twine. We don’t know for sure what conversations happened about options and future fees but the press reporting suggested there had been discussions about a potential option to buy, but there was not one in the deal which implies we could not agree a fee.

3) At end of the season, we were public about wanting to keep Twine

4) Twine started training in our facilities, which perhaps makes sense if he has family in Swindon but also implies he saw a future here.

5) At the start of the summer, reports seemed to suggest we wanted Twine but at a rate we wanted to pay in January whilst Burnley were open to selling Twine but had not moved on their asking price.

6)Over the last two months, reports have persisted that we want Twine but there is no evidence us or Burnley have moved on the fee. We show no sign of moving on to other targets.

So, whilst I do not know if we literally keep making offers, we know enough to suggest the practical situation is Burnley have set a fee and are not moving on it. We’re not prepared to match it but are not moving on to other targets so, in practice, we are basically hanging around in the hope Burnley drop their asking price and there is no suggestion they will do so.

What worries we is, five years on, I don‘t think we have learned from the Nketiah situation.

Agreed it mirrors the situation by how long this is taking. Either pay the asking fee or move on.

[astrondrew]

4 minutes ago, Banjo Red said:

 Either pay the asking fee or move on.

Or, alternatively, don't pay too much and hope they drop the price (as does happen) while also considering other targets.

[Dredd]

Surely the club must be confident there's a deal to be done here or we would have moved on. It's one thing bringing Twine in late because he was here last year, has some background in the tactics/playstyle/team mates/manager etc but to bring someone else in so late means they have lots of catching up to do tactically. And if they are behind the curve and I hear the phrase 'time on the grass' this season I might just lose my mind

[Roger Red Hat]

Please everybody, just move on..

...or not..

[Shauntaylor85]

24 minutes ago, City Slicker said:

If the club feel that Twine is their man to get us where we want to be, then I'm happy for the club to wait. We've still got a month until the window closes, so just let them get on with it. They obviously feel they can get him, or this wouldn't still be going on. 

In terms of costs, I'm confused why some people think £3m is too much for him. 

When you compare him with TC, there isn't that much in it in terms of stats, especially if you take the penalties away (granted different positions)

Lets have a look: 

Scott Twine                  Tommy Conway

Minutes: 2,547           2,297
Goals: 6                      10 (5 penalties)  
Assists: 3                    1
Created:  63               22       
PA 81.1%                     79.2%
    

I could go on with the some of these stats (using FotMob) but they are all very similar and most favouring ST. 

In my opinion he is worth £3/4m, especially when you compare him to the fans valuation of TCs. 

At the end of the day though, a player is worth as much as someone is willing to pay. As above, if the club think that Twine is exactly what they need in terms of position, playing ability, skill set, personality traits for the dressing room (which people MASSIVELY underestimate the value of), then I'm happy for the club to keep pursuing him.  If you believe that BT is sat there dialling up Burnley consistently offering £2m, then I'm not sure what to say. We've moved on quickly with our striker options, so I'm confident we would have done the same with Twine if the door was shut. 

Ultimately, if Twine is our man (which obviously the club think he is) then get your man. We have time so I'm unsure of the panic. 

 

Those stats show how ineffective Conway is for this team. Take away the pens and a couple of stray back passes he latched onto and it really isn’t going to be much of a miss. I’d take what we can and move on! 

[frenchred]

1 minute ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Those stats show how ineffective Conway is for this team. Take away the pens and a couple of stray back passes he latched onto and it really isn’t going to be much of a miss. I’d take what we can and move on! 

Really?

Your just bashing him as he wants to leave!

I like seeing a clubs main striker taking pens, they live for it and to have a go at him for latching onto stray back passes is beyond dumb! That's part of their bloody job!!

[the1stknowle]

50 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Surely the club must be confident there's a deal to be done here or we would have moved on. It's one thing bringing Twine in late because he was here last year, has some background in the tactics/playstyle/team mates/manager etc but to bring someone else in so late means they have lots of catching up to do tactically. And if they are behind the curve and I hear the phrase 'time on the grass' this season I might just lose my mind

Well, exactly. The club these days does generally pretty well in transfer negotiations both in and out. Clearly they've seen something to be very confident a deal will be made around a price they have in mind. Liam Manning, who I hope everyone would agree knows more about football and football players, and definitely more about Scott Twine as a footballer, than everyone who posts on this forum, is clearly extremely keen on Scott Twine so he must have seen something there and we should trust that. 

And yet pages and pages and pages of totally imagined scenarios and club missteps from people on this forum who, let's be completely honest here, have never negotiated a transfer in their lives. The Conway situation is what it is. The club clearly want Twine. Those two situations aren't necessarily best resolved with the fastest possible 'pay the price or move on' outcome. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, SecretSam said:

Who are they, Dave? Genuine Q - I'm an infrequent visitor, and I'm not wading through 71pp of Twine/String jokes

There not on here, they’re on a list at the HPC, quoted by Tinnion as “we have alternatives, cheaper ones too”!

I could come up with some names, but it appears we are looking abroad, and that’s not really my “pond”.

1 hour ago, cidercity said:

I see this statement a lot, do we know that City have made the same offer numerous times or is this just another dig at BT.

If it is true then that is just madness but i do not believe this can be true.

Again, this is all down to whether you believe what someone posts (or tells you) or not.  There’s one person who is pretty credible (understatement imho) for good reason and he says so.  That’s good enough for me.  Others maybe sceptical.  But seeing as Twine hasn’t yet signed (we’ve been trying for over 7 months), and we can see from other deals that we’ve done or lost, there seems to be a magic number we ain’t going over…and we are stuck at it.

So I’d go with the “madness” bit.  But you can make up your own mind.  It’s not a Tinnion bash, in many respects I think the City valuation is more accurate than the Burnley one, so credit City / Tinnion for digging their heels in.  But I don’t think this approach is gonna work.  Burnley could easily be saying, “come on Brian, we let you loan him on favourable terms, you knew what the score was this summer, stop taking the piss”.  And I wouldn’t blame them either.

I think people jump on any comment and are very sensitive / protective about him.  He should be judged on his role and performance in that role, not on anything else.

1 hour ago, astrondrew said:

Or, alternatively, don't pay too much and hope they drop the price (as does happen) while also considering other targets.

The strategy appears to be that, hope they buckle.  It’s not a great strategy.  After 7 months of not blinking, I’m not sure Burnley will now.

1 minute ago, the1stknowle said:

Well, exactly. The club these days does generally pretty well in transfer negotiations both in and out. Clearly they've seen something to be very confident a deal will be made around a price they have in mind. Liam Manning, who I hope everyone would agree knows more about football and football players, and definitely more about Scott Twine as a footballer, than everyone who posts on this forum, is clearly extremely keen on Scott Twine so he must have seen something there and we should trust that. 

And yet pages and pages and pages of totally imagined scenarios and club missteps from people on this forum who, let's be completely honest here, have never negotiated a transfer in their lives. The Conway situation is what it is. The club clearly want Twine. Those two situations aren't necessarily best resolved with the fastest possible 'pay the price or move on' outcome. 

Need to factor in this is a new negotiating team with little experience.  Their only experience was the Jan window, some mixed results.  I think the talent id part is fine, ie finding players.  Getting them over the line appears to be more of a challenge.

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I’m being a bit flippant. I don’t have any idea how many times we have actually made an offer.

However what I think we know do is:

1) We wanted Twine on a permanent in January. However Burnley would not move on their asking price (said to be £5m)

2) We then loaned Twine. We don’t know for sure what conversations happened about options and future fees but the press reporting suggested there had been discussions about a potential option to buy, but there was not one in the deal which implies we could not agree a fee.

3) At end of the season, we were public about wanting to keep Twine

4) Twine started training in our facilities, which perhaps makes sense if he has family in Swindon but also implies he saw a future here.

5) At the start of the summer, reports seemed to suggest we wanted Twine but at a rate we wanted to pay in January whilst Burnley were open to selling Twine but had not moved on their asking price.

6)Over the last two months, reports have persisted that we want Twine but there is no evidence us or Burnley have moved on the fee. We show no sign of moving on to other targets.

So, whilst I do not know if we literally keep making offers, we know enough to suggest the practical situation is Burnley have set a fee and are not moving on it. We’re not prepared to match it but are not moving on to other targets so, in practice, we are basically hanging around in the hope Burnley drop their asking price and there is no suggestion they will do so.

What worries we is, five years on, I don‘t think we have learned from the Nketiah situation.

IMO your summary of the Twine saga is spot on.

In fairness, I don't think the Nketiah situation was as silly as this.

From what I remember, we'd been pretty successful in closing the deal with Arsenal - even to the extent that they accidentally announced Nketiah as being on loan at Bristol City on their official website.

It was Nketiah himself who messed us around. My understanding is that he agreed to, then didn't show up to, at least 2 medicals with us. We essentially "got it done" and then Nketiah changed his mind at the 11th hour. Seemed to be the case that he simply didn't want to come here - if we're being critical of LJ and the club, then I suppose that's what they should have (and didn't) pick up on.

Of course, he & Arsenal then backtracked and he went to Leeds. I believe someone in the Leeds hierarchy was essentially best mates with someone in the Arsenal hierarchy.

Arsenal / Nketiah led us on and wasted our time. Burnley, on the other hand, have been pretty clear and consistent re Twine.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

15 hours ago, Sabby said:

We should be doing everything to sign him. Very impressed with him when on loan.

Hi Liam 

[Sir Geoff]

54 minutes ago, City Slicker said:

If the club feel that Twine is their man to get us where we want to be, then I'm happy for the club to wait. We've still got a month until the window closes, so just let them get on with it. They obviously feel they can get him, or this wouldn't still be going on. 

In terms of costs, I'm confused why some people think £3m is too much for him. 

When you compare him with TC, there isn't that much in it in terms of stats, especially if you take the penalties away (granted different positions)

Lets have a look: 

Scott Twine                  Tommy Conway

Minutes: 2,547           2,297
Goals: 6                      10 (5 penalties)  
Assists: 3                    1
Created:  63               22       
PA 81.1%                     79.2%
    

I could go on with the some of these stats (using FotMob) but they are all very similar and most favouring ST. 

In my opinion he is worth £3/4m, especially when you compare him to the fans valuation of TCs. 

At the end of the day though, a player is worth as much as someone is willing to pay. As above, if the club think that Twine is exactly what they need in terms of position, playing ability, skill set, personality traits for the dressing room (which people MASSIVELY underestimate the value of), then I'm happy for the club to keep pursuing him.  If you believe that BT is sat there dialling up Burnley consistently offering £2m, then I'm not sure what to say. We've moved on quickly with our striker options, so I'm confident we would have done the same with Twine if the door was shut. 

Ultimately, if Twine is our man (which obviously the club think he is) then get your man. We have time so I'm unsure of the panic. 

 

We don't really have time though, do we. Pre season has been missed. If we sign him on deadline day then a 10th of the season has been missed. If you're serious about promotion you want everyone set and ready from the first minute of the first game.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, SecretSam said:

Who are they, Dave? Genuine Q - I'm an infrequent visitor, and I'm not wading through 71pp of Twine/String jokes

I have 2. Whether the club have such plans is a separate issue.

Millar, Swift.

Then there is the foreign market more widely.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, City Slicker said:

Also, Twine as done a pre-season. He knows the squad, manager, staff, tactics etc etc, so that's all a bit irrelevant and actually adds more weight on why we should wait for Twine. 

He doesn’t know the new forward line, nor do we appear to playing anything like the way we played (3421) in the games he played, during this preseason.  I’d say that’s pretty relevant, wouldn’t you?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Yes, who does Twine replace in that shape?

Wells the obvious candidate..4-4-1-1ish almost.

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, City Slicker said:

learn how to pass a ball to a new player?

Yes, because that’s all it is…….managers who consistently say they’d like to get their business in early to settle the squad really don’t know what they’re talking about! 

[Supersonic Robin]

35 minutes ago, City Slicker said:

I resect your opinion on that, but, for the sake of missing 4 league games (8.7% of a season), I would rather us get the right player than someone they believe is 85% or 90% there (until the deal is officially dead). 

This is all assuming that the transfer goes to deadline day. 

That said though, are you saying that we aren't serious about promotion because Yu is missing the same amount of time (if not more)? 

 

Massive difference between a player getting injured whilst playing for their national team (out of our control) and us being unwilling to move on from a transfer target for 6+ months (within our control).

Not that I think promotion is a particularly serious target for us this season anyway, btw.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, Supersonic Robin said:

IMO your summary of the Twine saga is spot on.

In fairness, I don't think the Nketiah situation was as silly as this.

From what I remember, we'd been pretty successful in closing the deal with Arsenal - even to the extent that they accidentally announced Nketiah as being on loan at Bristol City on their official website.

It was Nketiah himself who messed us around. My understanding is that he agreed to, then didn't show up to, at least 2 medicals with us. We essentially "got it done" and then Nketiah changed his mind at the 11th hour. Seemed to be the case that he simply didn't want to come here - if we're being critical of LJ and the club, then I suppose that's what they should have (and didn't) pick up on.

Of course, he & Arsenal then backtracked and he went to Leeds. I believe someone in the Leeds hierarchy was essentially best mates with someone in the Arsenal hierarchy.

Arsenal / Nketiah led us on and wasted our time. Burnley, on the other hand, have been pretty clear and consistent re Twine.

That is pretty much my recollection as well.

I also seem to recall that Ian Wright 'advised' Nketiah that Leeds would be a better bet due to the way they played, but, unfortunately for Nketiah, Leeds'manager at the time, Bielsa, didn't feel that Nketiah fitted in to their system - I'm not sure that many players would - and then Nketiah got injured, poor lad....

Oh, but Ian Wright did accept Lee Johnson's subsequent invitation to visit City's set up, and, of course, announced that he was extremely impressed.    

[astrondrew]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

The strategy appears to be that, hope they buckle.  It’s not a great strategy.  After 7 months of not blinking, I’m not sure Burnley will now.

 

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-bristol-city-consider-ambitious-9451900

[cidercity]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

Again, this is all down to whether you believe what someone posts (or tells you) or not.  There’s one person who is pretty credible (understatement imho) for good reason and he says so.  That’s good enough for me.  Others maybe sceptical.  But seeing as Twine hasn’t yet signed (we’ve been trying for over 7 months), and we can see from other deals that we’ve done or lost, there seems to be a magic number we ain’t going over…and we are stuck at it.

So I’d go with the “madness” bit.  But you can make up your own mind.  It’s not a Tinnion bash, in many respects I think the City valuation is more accurate than the Burnley one, so credit City / Tinnion for digging their heels in.  But I don’t think this approach is gonna work.  Burnley could easily be saying, “come on Brian, we let you loan him on favourable terms, you knew what the score was this summer, stop taking the piss”.  And I wouldn’t blame them either.

I think people jump on any comment and are very sensitive / protective about him.  He should be judged on his role and performance in that role, not on anything else.

The strategy appears to be that, hope they buckle.  It’s not a great strategy.  After 7 months of not blinking, I’m not sure Burnley will now.

I will have to go with your knowledge of the person saying we haven’t changed our offer and keep going back in with exactly the same one. That to me is madness if true, in negotiations you do not show you’re cards first time round.