Tommy Conway - Signs for 'Boro- Official

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What sort of wage range assuming there is or was a wage negotiation point do we think Conway may have been minded to accept?

£25k per week or is that beyond what we might pay..is £20k the total Upper Limit?

I’d only be guessing Mr P in terms of what he’s been offered, and that seems a bit pointless on this thread at this stage.

[robinforlife2]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What sort of wage range assuming there is or was a wage negotiation point do we think Conway may have been minded to accept?

£25k per week or is that beyond what we might pay..is £20k the total Upper Limit?

Given he never once showed any interest in negotiating a new deal, I don't think it would have mattered what money was offered, he simply doesn't want to be here. 

[Jimmo]

Personally, I'm not mad at Tommy or Manning in this situation. 

Conway obviously feels he ready to take the next step, even if many of us feel he hasn't shown he's ready quite yet, but he's clearly a confident young guy and is backing himself to do the business, whilst further securing his and his family's future in the process, in what is a short and unpredictable career.

I've also got no problem with Manning sending him to train with the under 21's either, as he only wants to work with those who are fully committed to having a successful season with City. I like it.

I'm not convinced this action will devalue Tommy, as it's already known he'd like a new challenge, and the club confirming we want rid asap won't change much considering he only has one year left on his contract which doesn't give us strong bargaining power. 

Would of been interesting to see how this played out under Nige, as he stated this was the type of thing he wanted to stop happening.

Just hope this gets resolved before the start of the season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, robinforlife2 said:

Given he never once showed any interest in negotiating a new deal, I don't think it would have mattered what money was offered, he simply doesn't want to be here. 

Well this report infers something as does the post by Pete so I'm open minded.

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, BobBobBobbin said:

we do have form for underpaying our home grown players in comparison to others, it was why Scott Murray and Louis left, played a part for Joey B, Bobby and a few others. 

 

We've started to get it right with Zac and Pring; but seems to be a historical pattern

Scott Murray wasn’t home grown. We signed him from Villa. 
I think it is the same scenario for nearly all players who come through the ranks. 
Players a club want to sign need to be tempted to join . We are lucky to have good facilities and an attractive city to live in but at the end of the day money talks. 

[fly in the air]

being realistic who would want Tommy Conway I am not shaw that many. the likes of Fulham or Wolves could show an interest 

[Nogbad the Bad]

11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah his Agent....really think his Agent has a lot to answer for.

Typical Tinnion behaviour though. A thin skinned petty man I'd say.

I can well believe the story about him wanting players to call him "Sir at some stage of his tenure.

I can't.

After he became the manager it was reported he said the players should now call him boss or gaffer, and not Brian or Tins anymore. 

Very reasonable, and this 'call me Sir' stuff is nonsense imo.

[Nogbad the Bad]

11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What sort of wage range assuming there is or was a wage negotiation point do we think Conway may have been minded to accept?

£25k per week or is that beyond what we might pay..is £20k the total Upper Limit?

City surely wouldn't offer 25k per week.

I'd guess he'd be on a par with Vyner, whose reported wage from several ITK's on here certainly surprised me.

If so, and Conway has rejected it, then the club have done all anyone could reasonably expect them to do.

[RedM]

9 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Given he never once showed any interest in negotiating a new deal, I don't think it would have mattered what money was offered, he simply doesn't want to be here. 

It feels like we have been here a few times before, and it generally ends only one way. The player gets what they want, a move away. I don't think it's anything against Bristol city, it's more the fact we aren't premiership or Premiership bound.

Edit: I've never brought into all this 'short and unpredictable' career nonsense. Even with a career ending injury I would think 99.9% of players are quite capable of working, like the rest of us have to do without a financial cushion too I expect.

[Ashton Fete]

33 minutes ago, RedM said:

It feels like we have been here a few times before, and it generally ends only one way. The player gets what they want, a move away. I don't think it's anything against Bristol city, it's more the fact we aren't premiership or Premiership bound.

Edit: I've never brought into all this 'short and unpredictable' career nonsense. Even with a career ending injury I would think 99.9% of players are quite capable of working, like the rest of us have to do without a financial cushion too I expect.

It is a short career tho and their earning potential as a player has the ability to double/triple and ultimately in the case of say Alex Scott reportedly went from around £8k a week to £40k

Semenyo has just got a new contract a year or so after signing for them so he’s probably gone from around £10k with us to likely upwards of £60K now

Yes they could get other jobs but this is their trade and the earning potential as a pro footballer dwarfs what someone who retires early gets then working in the private/public sector

So it’s not about ability to work outside of football but what they can earn as a player 

[HengroveReds]

Chuck Conway in a deal to keep the QPR conveyor belt moving, Conway plus 4 million for Ilias chair

We can only dream

[BobBobBobbin]

error

Edited July 20 by BobBobBobbin
error

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, petehinton said:

All this sorta stuff comes out the woodwork at convenient timing, so always have to take these things with a pinch of salt, but heard yesterday from someone who’d have no reason to make it up, that the problems have risen from “the club” (I’d imagine, Tinnion) saying verbally that they’d get him to X (which Tommy was happy with), only to put a Y lower offer on the formal contract which was much lower than they’d discussed. 

Pete, I heard this a few months ago, and it related to during discussions last summer when a club were sniffing / bidding.  But they didn’t meet our valuation so it didn’t progress.

So I can only guess he won’t renegotiate on a point of principle???

[BobBobBobbin]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Scott Murray wasn’t home grown. We signed him from Villa. 
I think it is the same scenario for nearly all players who come through the ranks. 
Players a club want to sign need to be tempted to join . We are lucky to have good facilities and an attractive city to live in but at the end of the day money talks. 

Of course, point being Scott was our best player and wasn't our highest earner. A two tier wage structure (Nige alluded to it a few times IIRC) where players who had become part of the furniture were not rewarded in line with new signings. Granted the club needs to find value where it can, but the risk you run with that is that you lose the players you could reasonably expect to care that little bit more.

 

Put bluntly,(With the benefit of hindsight thrown in) we should have given Tommy a long extension as soon as he broke through; 5 years, incremental wage increases based on appearances/milestones, option years and if required a release clause.

13 minutes ago, HengroveReds said:

Chuck Conway in a deal to keep the QPR conveyor belt moving, Conway plus 4 million for Ilias chair

We can only dream

Leave the signing of thugs to the Gas, thanks. 

 

[Davefevs]

QPR:

[LondonBristolian]

 

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Scott Murray wasn’t home grown. We signed him from Villa. 
I think it is the same scenario for nearly all players who come through the ranks. 
Players a club want to sign need to be tempted to join . We are lucky to have good facilities and an attractive city to live in but at the end of the day money talks. 

It’s a quirk of the employment process that goes way beyond football. Typically employers are only going to negotiate pay rises when someone joins or when they threaten to quit, at which point people are often so hacked off it is too late to get them back onside. Research shows that people who regularly change jobs tend to earn more than people who stick with their employer.

Ultimately any employer that pays more to attract new staff than they are willing to pay to keep their best existing staff is actively penalising loyalty and can’t complain when the result is their best performers going elsewhere. Yet the vast majority of companies - football or otherwise - continue to do it.

Edited July 20 by LondonBristolian

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

 

It’s a quirk of the employment process that goes way beyond football. Typically employers are only going to negotiate pay rises when someone joins or when they threaten to quit, at which point people are often so hacked off it is too late to get them back onside. Research shows that people who regularly change jobs tend to earn more than people who stick with their employer.

Ultimately any employer that pays more to attempt new staff than they are willing to pay to keep their best existing staff is actively penalising loyalty and can’t complain when the result is their best performers going elsewhere. Yet the vast majority of companies - football or otherwise - continue to do it.

I half-typed something similar last night, deleted it…you’ve articulated much better than my attempt!

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I can't.

After he became the manager it was reported he said the players should now call him boss or gaffer, and not Brian or Tins anymore. 

Very reasonable, and this 'call me Sir' stuff is nonsense imo.

Maybe I misremembered then? I was told the story years ago.

Possible it was that or it was passed on 2nd, 3rd hand, perhaps it changed as it went down the line.

Maybe it was Gaffer or Boss which is fine and the norm I can't fully recall.

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

City surely wouldn't offer 25k per week.

I'd guess he'd be on a par with Vyner, whose reported wage from several ITK's on here certainly surprised me.

If so, and Conway has rejected it, then the club have done all anyone could reasonably expect them to do.

I just wondered what the upper wants we may have offered and what he may have wanted could be..£20k top end?

[Silvio Dante]

38 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe I misremembered then? I was told the story years ago.

Possible it was that or it was passed on 2nd, 3rd hand, perhaps it changed as it went down the line.

Maybe it was Gaffer or Boss which is fine and the norm I can't fully recall.

I just wondered what the upper wants we may have offered and what he may have wanted could be..£20k top end?

We’re back to the dichotomy here.

If the club think he’s worth x and that’s what we’re asking other teams to pay, have we offered a contract consummate with a player that would be purchased for x?

It’s not a hard and fast rule. But I’d envisage that if you’re valuing someone at £5m, then the wage starts at a minimum with a 2, and goes up incrementally thereafter. 
 

There have been indications on this thread that we value him at more than £5m. Therefore, being logical, the market wage has to be at or above the £25k per week and if we’re below we’ve lowballed the market.

(Again, I’m not saying TC is worth that. But to reiterate the club can’t say on one hand he’s worth x and on the other say …but his wages don’t reflect that on contract offer)

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

Rangers looking to sign Morgan Whittaker from Argyle. So that is probably them off of the list of suitors for TC.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

We’re back to the dichotomy here.

If the club think he’s worth x and that’s what we’re asking other teams to pay, have we offered a contract consummate with a player that would be purchased for x?

It’s not a hard and fast rule. But I’d envisage that if you’re valuing someone at £5m, then the wage starts at a minimum with a 2, and goes up incrementally thereafter. 
 

There have been indications on this thread that we value him at more than £5m. Therefore, being logical, the market wage has to be at or above the £25k per week and if we’re below we’ve lowballed the market.

(Again, I’m not saying TC is worth that. But to reiterate the club can’t say on one hand he’s worth x and on the other say …but his wages don’t reflect that on contract offer)

Agreed.

£25k a week seems a likely entry point to me, in terms of Value vs worth (Fee/Wage equation).

Whether he is worth it or wherher it is worth a Championship non Parachute Payments club is a different issue- I imagine £20k would be the top top end that we would consider..it isn't the easiest balancing act granted.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Rangers looking to sign Morgan Whittaker from Argyle. So that is probably them off of the list of suitors for TC.

Rangers paying an 8 figure fee?

3 years left on deal, Plymouth without any FFP concerns, Whittaker should only get better..I'd be having someone pay through the nose or at least pay well if I was Plymouth.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Reckon Whittaker costs £10-20m in those circs, closer to the latter.

[Loosey Boy]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Rangers paying an 8 figure fee?

3 years left on deal, Plymouth without any FFP concerns, Whittaker should only get better..I'd be having someone pay through the nose or at least pay well if I was Plymouth.

Don’t see this happening - Rangers have very little money to spend - what they’ve got is currently going on their old, crumbling stadium.

Probably why they are wanting to sign TC for £300k

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Loosey Boy said:

Don’t see this happening - Rangers have very little money to spend - what they’ve got is currently going on their old, crumbling stadium.

Probably why they are wanting to sign TC for £300k

Just Googled, one or two pages say £15m for Whittaker.

That seems a fair price to me the £15m.

[Lew-T]

3 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Rangers looking to sign Morgan Whittaker from Argyle. So that is probably them off of the list of suitors for TC.

Surely he’s got better offers than the SPL?

[Cov 77]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Rangers paying an 8 figure fee?

3 years left on deal, Plymouth without any FFP concerns, Whittaker should only get better..I'd be having someone pay through the nose or at least pay well if I was Plymouth.

Might be proved wrong but Rangers just have not got anything like 10 million to spend on anyone , Kris Boyd has said Clement may even walk as budget very low compared to what he was promised 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Surely he’s got better offers than the SPL?

Many clubs keen on him apparently.

PL, Serie A, La Liga clubs all credited with interest.

[Lew-T]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Many clubs keen on him apparently.

PL, Serie A, La Liga clubs all credited with interest.

Yeah that’s more like it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Cov 77 said:

Might be proved wrong but Rangers just have not got anything like 10 million to spend on anyone , Kris Boyd has said Clement may even walk as budget very low compared to what he was promised 

Agreed.

Celtic could splash big on paper as they regularly are making profits, have good Cash Reserves etc and a wealthy owner but they don't seem to operate in that way.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe I misremembered then? I was told the story years ago.

Possible it was that or it was passed on 2nd, 3rd hand, perhaps it changed as it went down the line.

Maybe it was Gaffer or Boss which is fine and the norm I can't fully recall.

I just wondered what the upper wants we may have offered and what he may have wanted could be..£20k top end?

Mr P, with all due respect, you aren’t doing yourself any favours here.  You brought up the “Sir” thing earlier this week and got corrected, you accepted it, and then you’ve peddled it again, accepted it again.  Pribsbly worth “filing” away!!!

It takes away from the other good points you make.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Mr P, with all due respect, you aren’t doing yourself any favours here.  You brought up the “Sir” thing earlier this week and got corrected, you accepted it, and then you’ve peddled it again, accepted it again.  Pribsbly worth “filing” away!!!

It takes away from the other good points you make.

Thanks Dave I'll take the L on this one, it could've been passed down wrongly or misremembered by me..it was passed down third hand minimum.

It is possibly true but I can't be certain.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Many clubs keen on him apparently.

PL, Serie A, La Liga clubs all credited with interest.

Not according to Manning…………

[Glen hump]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not according to Manning…………

Ffs wrong player rob.

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

Ffs wrong player rob.

TBF it is supposed to be the Tommy Conway thread, easy mistake to make.

[Philly The Kid]

45 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

We’re back to the dichotomy here.

If the club think he’s worth x and that’s what we’re asking other teams to pay, have we offered a contract consummate with a player that would be purchased for x?

It’s not a hard and fast rule. But I’d envisage that if you’re valuing someone at £5m, then the wage starts at a minimum with a 2, and goes up incrementally thereafter. 
 

There have been indications on this thread that we value him at more than £5m. Therefore, being logical, the market wage has to be at or above the £25k per week and if we’re below we’ve lowballed the market.

(Again, I’m not saying TC is worth that. But to reiterate the club can’t say on one hand he’s worth x and on the other say …but his wages don’t reflect that on contract offer)

So on that basis, and assuming the club has a wage structure with a maximum wage for any player of, say (for arguments sake) £18K, by logic, that restricts your buying power to players of a certain fee which is commensurate with £18K or less....
On that basis then, it's hardly surprising we are shopping at a certain level of transfer fee. Something which lots of supporters don't seem to understand. There's lots of "pay the going rate" in terms of transfer fees, then people baulk at the wages which are commensurate with those fees.

[robin_unreliant]

2 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

So on that basis, and assuming the club has a wage structure with a maximum wage for any player of, say (for arguments sake) £18K, by logic, that restricts your buying power to players of a certain fee which is commensurate with £18K or less....
On that basis then, it's hardly surprising we are shopping at a certain level of transfer fee. Something which lots of supporters don't seem to understand. There's lots of "pay the going rate" in terms of transfer fees, then people baulk at the wages which are commensurate with those fees.

Not being willing to pay the wages - that has been the issue forever with SL.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

So on that basis, and assuming the club has a wage structure with a maximum wage for any player of, say (for arguments sake) £18K, by logic, that restricts your buying power to players of a certain fee which is commensurate with £18K or less....
On that basis then, it's hardly surprising we are shopping at a certain level of transfer fee. Something which lots of supporters don't seem to understand. There's lots of "pay the going rate" in terms of transfer fees, then people baulk at the wages which are commensurate with those fees.

Good point. That would very much restrict the pool yep (although I wonder about e.g. Swiss League whether their wages so big). Duncan McGuire wage wise we could likely go for, fee we may or may not worry about.

In a way not entering the madness is something I applaud on one level, it is just frustrating that it feels like we have a lot of component parts that need the extra layer of quality on top.

Just now, robin_unreliant said:

Not being willing to pay the wages - that has been the issue forever with SL.

Although the 2 years before the hard reset and perhaps before we spent quite freely.

[Glen hump]

4 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

So on that basis, and assuming the club has a wage structure with a maximum wage for any player of, say (for arguments sake) £18K, by logic, that restricts your buying power to players of a certain fee which is commensurate with £18K or less....
On that basis then, it's hardly surprising we are shopping at a certain level of transfer fee. Something which lots of supporters don't seem to understand. There's lots of "pay the going rate" in terms of transfer fees, then people baulk at the wages which are commensurate with those fees.

There’s lots of ways you can make up a player’s wages’ doesn’t have to be what he takes home monthly’ signing on fee ‘ bonuses’ etc.

[Back of the Dolman]

29 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not according to Manning…………

Not sure LM knows much about what’s going on with Morgan Whittaker

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Philly The Kid said:

So on that basis, and assuming the club has a wage structure with a maximum wage for any player of, say (for arguments sake) £18K, by logic, that restricts your buying power to players of a certain fee which is commensurate with £18K or less....
On that basis then, it's hardly surprising we are shopping at a certain level of transfer fee. Something which lots of supporters don't seem to understand. There's lots of "pay the going rate" in terms of transfer fees, then people baulk at the wages which are commensurate with those fees.

Bang on - and FWIW I’ve not been one of those who says “go and pay the going rate” - in fact, a lot of my recent frustration with the club is that we’re not being as savvy as we should (showing our hand with Twine, reducing Conways likely price).

Of course, you can structure deals so if you think a player is worth x and you get him for y, there is an argument you can use the difference to make up an attractive package. The issue is on contract renewal you don’t have that “created” wriggle room as there is no “fee” saving.

One of the things that Pearson was very clear on was wage equalisation as much as possible. You sign a marquee player, that gets blown out of the water.

But you have to pay the going rate for players you want (providing within budget), and if you want to retain players you have under contract, you need to pay them in line with their market value on renewal. I’d bet a fair amount that Tommys “excellent offer” isn’t in line with the market value we place on him. And to reiterate, I’m not saying that valuation is necessarily realistic or that Tommy is worth the wage.

But what I am saying is that if you know what the going wage rate is for a player valued at x, if you lowball don’t be shocked when it gets rejected, and don’t get in a piss over it. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, Glen hump said:

There’s lots of ways you can make up a player’s wages’ doesn’t have to be what he takes home monthly’ signing on fee ‘ bonuses’ etc.

However it is paid to the player, it still ends up as an annual salary budget. Whether we pay a player £18k a week or whether we pay a player £15k a week plus £156, 000 in bonuses and fees doesn’t change how much we can afford to spend on the player.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

There’s lots of ways you can make up a player’s wages’ doesn’t have to be what he takes home monthly’ signing on fee ‘ bonuses’ etc.

7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

However it is paid to the player, it still ends up as an annual salary budget. Whether we pay a player £18k a week or whether we pay a player £15k a week plus £156, 000 in bonuses and fees doesn’t change how much we can afford to spend on the player.

Indeed.

And if you go further and tell a player you’re on £15k pw (because that’s the structure) but we are gonna give another £500k in bonuses of some shape or form, just don’t tell any of the other players, you get Lee Tomlin…who comes in with a brand new sports car and tells everyone what he got anyway!

Just to provide a slight Devil’s advocate, if you truly bring in a top, top player I think most players would accept he’s on a higher wage (assuming he does the biz on the pitch).

I dunno what we paid Tammy, but imagine he was on more than our highest earners, I don’t think anyone would moan about it, they’d thank him for helping them get their win bonus!

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

There’s lots of ways you can make up a player’s wages’ doesn’t have to be what he takes home monthly’ signing on fee ‘ bonuses’ etc.

Agreed.

Could have as one idea graduated rises..could have begin on £x, go to £y if target hit in addition to bonuses- for him and key players.

Rising to £20k, perhaps even in time to £25k or above if realistic argets hit..base wage £18k per week plus bonuses maybe- or tie some wages to club income rises ie a % in rise of income if they are truly that valuable.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed.

Could have as one idea graduated rises..could have begin on £x, go to £y if target hit in addition to bonuses- for him and key players.

Rising to £20k, perhaps even in time to £25k or above if realistic argets hit..base wage £18k per week plus bonuses maybe- or tie some wages to club income rises ie a % in rise of income if they are truly that valuable.

That’s pretty standard / commonplace for players today, especially younger players…either on an annual increase / part performance related increase.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s pretty standard / commonplace for players today, especially younger players…either on an annual increase / part performance related increase.

Just trying to think how if money is an issue Conway could be accommodated..Fair Wage plus Release Clause could help but that ship maybe has sailed?

The nightmare scenario for all parties would he that he plays a season in the U21s.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just trying to think how if money is an issue Conway could be accommodated..Fair Wage plus Release Clause could help but that ship maybe has sailed?

The nightmare scenario for all parties would he that he plays a season in the U23s.

Pete Hinton’s post - the ship sailed a long time ago.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Pete Hinton’s post - the ship sailed a long time ago.

Yeah I feared as much.

Still a negative scenario for all would be if he ends up playing in the U21s for a whole season, I'm sure it won't come to that fwiw.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[BritAbroad]

I think someone will come and offer a mil or two on deadline day with a 20% sell on and we'll take it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think £20-25k per week would be a fair or would have been a fair offer for Conway, wonder how far out that was in respect of what we offered or what he was requesting?

Release Clause too if needed.

[Shuffle]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think £20-25k per week would be a fair or would have been a fair offer for Conway, wonder how far out that was in respect of what we offered or what he was requesting?

Release Clause too if needed.

We’ve just got rid of all our high earners and whilst I’d want Conway to stay on what planet does he deserve £25k pw? As others have said, too much water under the bridge to reach a compromise but if he was offered say half of your view, then he’d be staying imo.

[LondonBristolian]

34 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah I feared as much.

Still a negative scenario for all would be if he ends up playing in the U21s for a whole season, I'm sure it won't come to that fwiw.

I am very much hoping that the logic of Tommy in the U-23s is that it means the first team prepare for the season with the players we expect to have available, rather than playing friendlies based around Conway as an option and then having to adapt.

If the window closes with Conway here, I would be pissed off if he weren’t using him.

[hertsexile]

What ever the offer there is a wage structure in place for a reason. 
Nigel was brought in to trim the wage bill and get the club in some sort of order following past mistakes. 
If Tommy wants more than has been offered then so be it. 
At the moment though we no offer from anywhere else on the table ! What is the problem as long as their is a release clause written in get a grip and sign  

[Silvio Dante]

15 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

We’ve just got rid of all our high earners and whilst I’d want Conway to stay on what planet does he deserve £25k pw? As others have said, too much water under the bridge to reach a compromise but if he was offered say half of your view, then he’d be staying imo.

The simple answer to that, again, is the planet where Bristol City FC are demanding a fee north (and it’s believed some way north) of £5m for him.

I don’t think he’s worth that. You don’t think he’s worth that. Hell, even Tommy may not think he’s worth that. But if the club are saying this is his value then they can’t be surprised by that figure.

Edited July 20 by Silvio Dante

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, hertsexile said:

What ever the offer there is a wage structure in place for a reason. 
Nigel was brought in to trim the wage bill and get the club in some sort of order following past mistakes. 
If Tommy wants more than has been offered then so be it. 
At the moment though we no offer from anywhere else on the table ! What is the problem as long as their is a release clause written in get a grip and sign  

…and again, the release clause is only applicable and appropriate if it’s a figure both club and player are happy with. Tommy won’t want a release clause that limits his options and the club won’t want a release clause a la Matty Taylor

People need to really think whether either party would genuinely go for a release clause that would be agreeable because it is a total red herring here.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

We’ve just got rid of all our high earners and whilst I’d want Conway to stay on what planet does he deserve £25k pw? As others have said, too much water under the bridge to reach a compromise but if he was offered say half of your view, then he’d be staying imo.

While I agree on one level, but you think £12.5k per week would've been the magic number?

He should really be one of our top earners, or have been.

What Silvio said too.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[And Its Smith]

28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think £20-25k per week would be a fair or would have been a fair offer for Conway, wonder how far out that was in respect of what we offered or what he was requesting?

Release Clause too if needed.

Too much.  Doesn’t deserve more than about £17k per week in my opinion 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

While I agree on one level, but you think £12.5k per week would've been the magic number?

He should really be one of our top earners, or have been.

What Silvio said too.

That kind of wage isn’t far off being one of our high earners.

[And Its Smith]

22 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

We’ve just got rid of all our high earners and whilst I’d want Conway to stay on what planet does he deserve £25k pw? As others have said, too much water under the bridge to reach a compromise but if he was offered say half of your view, then he’d be staying imo.

I think we would have offered him at least £12.5k per week

[Glen hump]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That kind of wage isn’t far off being one of our high earners.

The way we valued him, he should be a top earner 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Too much.  Doesn’t deserve more than about £17k per week in my opinion 

Well in that case the £5m or above fee isn't commensurate.

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That kind of wage isn’t far off being one of our high earners.

£15k or so a week the top end I reckon?

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I think we would have offered him at least £12.5k per week

That feels insultingly low. Although perhaps I'm out of touch also. 

"Yeah you're our top scorer x 2 before age 22, you possess significant room for growth, you compare reasonably v e.g. Delap..so £12.5k per week it is".

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I just wondered what the upper wants we may have offered and what he may have wanted could be..£20k top end?

No idea but I suspect on a par with Vyner, so 18-19k if reports are to be believed.

If that's the case and TC wants considerably more - apparently believing he should be City's highest paid player aged 21 with just 25 league goals to his name (including pens) - then he's living in La La Land and I'm fully in favour of City setting that limit.

There's no way City will (or should) offer 25k, he's not worth it to us and doing so would lead to all sort of problems by breaking the wage structure. 

It doesn't appear that any club is actually particularly interested in signing him (and paying him that sort of wage, or more) anyway, and if and when he does go let's remember we will only lack his approx. 10 league goals a season.

He is not a superstar or irreplaceable and replacing his modest seasonal tally is not something that should overly worry the club  or allow themselves to be held to ransom about.

 

[Davefevs]

For a bit of balance, and I’ve no idea of the numbers, the contract offer last summer was whilst Nige was still in charge (and he wouldn’t sign then).  Nige’s view (paraphrased from his comments previously) - you don’t become a top earner from one season, that’s an insult to those high earners who’ve been doing it for years”.

But…

…I could imagine Nige recommending  a principle to the hierarchy that centred around a staggered set of increases.

To @Shuffle’s point, he may have been offered a bit less than we’d think because of the above.

But I think from @petehinton’s post, the issue re stopping negotiations was more on principle.

Nor do I think Tommy was asking for more than the wage structure is currently set.

Edited July 20 by Davefevs

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

No idea but I suspect on a par with Vyner, so 18-19k if reports are to be believed.

If that's the case and TC wants considerably more - apparently believing he should be City's highest paid player aged 21 with just 25 league goals to his name (including pens) - then he's living in La La Land and I'm fully in favour of City setting that limit.

There's no way City will (or should) offer 25k, he's not worth it to us and doing so would lead to all sort of problems by breaking the wage structure. 

It doesn't appear that any club is actually particularly interested in signing him (and paying him that sort of wage, or more) anyway, and if and when he does go let's remember we will only lack his approx. 10 league goals a season.

He is not a superstar or irreplaceable and replacing his modest seasonal tally is not something that should overly worry the club  or allow themselves to be held to ransom about.

 

Good post, maybe £18-19k would've been fair then.

Just feel we are taking a gamble, it isn't so much the individual players as the profile of the squad.

I read a stat that said he got his tally in a side that did not score well for creative metrics. We were 23rd and 19th for Key Passer although that feels low? We were in and around mid table for some Shot Numbers.

Perhaps not £25k then but can't help but feel that we have lowballed somewhere along the line- the Agent does few parties any favours though.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good post, maybe £18-19k would've been fair then.

Just feel we are taking a gamble, it isn't so much the individual players as the profile of the squad.

I read a stat that said he got his tally in a side that did not score well for creative metrics. We were 23rd and 19th for Key Passer although that feels low? We were in and around mid table for some Shot Numbers.

Perhaps not £25k then but can't help but feel that we have lowballed somewhere along the line- the Agent does few parties any favours though.

It’s probably not worth worrying amount £x or £y thousand, the contracts won’t be as simple as a per week amount anyway.  And we are all guessing to an extent, and forming our side of it, me included.

But yes, our attacking stats were pretty much a reverse mirror of our defensive stats.  We weren’t very creative across a number of metrics.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The Oracle speaks!

His take on if Conway goes to an English club on a free next summer.

£2.5m plus add ons in compensation is...bullish??

Don't Sheffield United have a Cat 1 Academy nowadays, that surely plays a role.

That isn't quite such a disaster if he is accurate financially but how exactly is it calculated.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The Oracle speaks!

£2.5m plus add ons in compensation is...bullish??

Don't Sheffield United have a Cat 1 Academy nowadays, that surely plays a role.

This is where @Silvio Dante’s maths really does have some correlation.  Because if City offer him £x wages in their contract offer, then that forms part of the PFCC tribunal’s decisioning. Tribunal aren’t gone set a £50m fee for a bloke offered £5k pw (made up numbers to show his fee and wages or lack of in this case might hold sway).

That would be one of the highest PFCC compensation amounts ever (Ings the highest).

It is why very few cases get that far these days, because they typically under value the player.

+++++

Jebbison didn’t go to PFCC did he…clubs reached an agreement?????  

Edited July 20 by Davefevs

[robinforlife2]

I have a feeling Conway will be used to negotiate a deal for someone one. We know he is potentially a £5m player, but right now, we would be lucky to get 2m for him. That said, if there was any interest from Burnley, We'll give you £2.5m plus Conway for Twine, but we want a 20% sell on for Conway. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

I have a feeling Conway will be used to negotiate a deal for someone one. We know he is potentially a £5m player, but right now, we would be lucky to get 2m for him. That said, if there was any interest from Burnley, We'll give you £2.5m plus Conway for Twine, but we want a 20% sell on for Conway. 

A very logical thought.  But if you low-ball for their player and high-ball your own, guess what….no deal gets done.