Tommy Conway - Signs for 'Boro- Official

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This is where @Silvio Dante’s maths really does have some correlation.  Because if City offer him £x wages in their contract offer, then that forms part of the PFCC tribunal’s decisioning. Tribunal aren’t gone set a £50m fee for a bloke offered £5k pw (made up numbers to show his fee and wages or lack of in this case might hold sway).

That would be one of the highest PFCC compensation amounts ever (Ings the highest).

It is why very few cases get that far these days, because they typically under value the player.

+++++

Jebbison didn’t go to PFCC did he…clubs reached an agreement?????  

Yeah pretty sure they Agreed in the end.

I would love to see the workings by Ian, it seems well over the top on first glance.

What about if we offered him £25k per now, in the likelihood that he still won't accept to maybe enhance value at a tribunal?  I'm being a bit fanciful on that but just wondering how we leverage it to our maximum advantage.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[stortfordred]

7 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

We'll give you £2.5m plus Conway for Twine, but we want a 20% sell on for Conway. 

It’s not my money but based on last season I don’t understand why Twine would be worth that much more than Tommy. Or indeed any more. 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah pretty sure they Agreed in the end.

I would love to see the workings by Ian, it seems well over the top on first glance.

What about if we offered him £25k per now, in the likelihood that he still won't accept to maybe enhance value at a tribunal?  I'm being a bit fanciful on that but just wondering how we leverage it to our maximum advantage.

It’ll be whatever the club told him they think they’ll get, which he now takes as being gospel and spurts out.

This one makes me laugh a bit - “we’ve had no interest”

From the EFL PFCC guidance.

Shooting themselves in the foot. (Of course they might not be being truthful about interest)

 

Edited July 20 by Davefevs

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

A very logical thought.  But if you low-ball for their player and high-ball your own, guess what….no deal gets done.

Agreed, but in that scenario it could just as easily be Burnley high-balling Twine and low-balling Conway.

A bit of a balls-up either way.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, stortfordred said:

It’s not my money but based on last season I don’t understand why Twine would be worth that much more than Tommy. Or indeed any more. 

Twine has 2 years left on his deal which assists with bargaining power.

[Nogbad the Bad]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nor do I think Tommy was asking for more than the wage structure is currently set.

Is this just your thinking or do you know it to be the case?

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’ll be whatever the club told him they think they’ll get, which he now takes as being gospel and spurts out.

This one makes me laugh a bit - “we’ve had no interest”

From the EFL PFCC guidance.

Shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I'm struggling to see how we come out of this well. Perhaps we will get a fair bid between now and end of August or a decent loan fee and wages covered.

Or maybe Armstrong, Fally and Yu will smash it and it will be "Tommy Who".

Surely a year in the U21's wouldn't do his value at a Tribunal any good at all?

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Vespa Red]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm struggling to see how we come out of this well. Perhaps we will get a fair bit between now and end of August or a decent loan fee and wages covered.

Or maybe Armstrong, Fally and Yu will smash it and it will be "Tommy Who".

Surely a year in the U21's wouldn't do his value at a Tribunal any good at all?

I''l correct that for you.  it's actually Tommy by The Who.

 

I'l get me coat.......

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think £20-25k per week would be a fair or would have been a fair offer for Conway, wonder how far out that was in respect of what we offered or what he was requesting?

Release Clause too if needed.

What would be fair is for more senior players to be earning more than a young player who has had an average season and would advocate around 10k pw. I've always been a big Conway supporter since I first saw him about 5 years ago. He has potential but he aint the finished article by any means, he really needs another season in the Championship. He would have been offered something commensurate with that.

It obviously wasn't to his, or probably his agents liking, as they've not even tried negotiating it. He wants out regardless of salary which is a mistake imo.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

What would be fair is for more senior players to be earning more than a young player who has had an average season and would advocate around 10k pw. I've always been a big Conway supporter since I first saw him about 5 years ago. He has potential but he aint the finished article by any means, he really needs another season in the Championship. He would have been offered something commensurate with that.

It obviously wasn't to his, or probably his agents liking, as they've not even tried negotiating it. He wants out regardless of salary which is a mistake imo.

That is also reasonable,  but an average season on paper can also be measured against certain metrics and comparables. Two medium term and a chance of coach across 2 seasons.

Like you I'm a big Conway fan, I agree he isn't the finished article- PL ready he isn't, I could see him at a higher ranked Championship club though. 

Should it just be an age thing though, that can be argued both ways, room for growth, upward potential, compares favourably or on okay terms to players such as Delap.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I dunno whether this holds, it was 2012 and it isn't my area of expertise but it does seem that Category of Academy can play or has in the past a role in the compensation formula.

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/the-eppp-and-why-youth-development-matters/

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Vespa Red said:

I''l correct that for you.  it's actually Tommy by The Who.

 

I'l get me coat.......

To be fair mate, I can’t explain most of the decisions we’ve made recently…

[frenchred]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think £20-25k per week would be a fair or would have been a fair offer for Conway, wonder how far out that was in respect of what we offered or what he was requesting?

Release Clause too if needed.

Have you lost all sense of reality?

I'm not sure we have anyone on that kinda money now, so to give it to a kid with 2 seasons under his belt would be unforgivable madness!

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Have you lost all sense of reality?

I'm not sure we have anyone on that kinda money now, so to give it to a kid with 2 seasons under his belt would be unforgivable madness!

Well I don't know, top earners are top earners for a reason.

I'm putting numbers out there to speculate on what sort of numbers would have been offered..I get the impression we have lowballed somewhere along the line.

He stacks up quite well is his peers in the same age bracket at this level, in a side with creativity issues.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

What would be fair is for more senior players to be earning more than a young player who has had an average season and would advocate around 10k pw. I've always been a big Conway supporter since I first saw him about 5 years ago. He has potential but he aint the finished article by any means, he really needs another season in the Championship. He would have been offered something commensurate with that.

It obviously wasn't to his, or probably his agents liking, as they've not even tried negotiating it. He wants out regardless of salary which is a mistake imo.

 

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That is also reasonable,  but an average season on paper can also be measured against certain metrics and comparables. Two medium term and a chance of coach across 2 seasons.

Like you I'm a big Conway fan, I agree he isn't the finished article- PL ready he isn't, I could see him at a higher ranked Championship club though. 

Should it just be an age thing though, that can be argued both ways, room for growth, upward potential, compares favourably or on okay terms to players such as Delap.

Both of these are more than reasonable for us, having seen the player up front and I don’t think anyone is saying that Tommy is ready for a major step up - far from it, I think as illustrated above he would indeed benefit from another year at this level. I do think though he gets in the side at a playoff chasing club, and in terms of “marketability”, we are talking an international age 21 who has hit double figures two seasons running in a mid table side. 
 

The problem, as I’ve said, is that I think his value we’ve placed on him drives the wage attractiveness or otherwise. For me, he is probably dispassionately a £5m asset (we’ve got a good reference point in SA) and we would have had to pay accordingly to keep, even if he isn’t ready for a step up.

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Have you lost all sense of reality?

I'm not sure we have anyone on that kinda money now, so to give it to a kid with 2 seasons under his belt would be unforgivable madness!

But - again - it’s where the market is for a player of Tommys age and record, and crucially, for the amount we value him at. I’m not disagreeing it would be madness to pay it, but it was totally foreseeable that this would arise.

[RedM]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Many clubs keen on him apparently.

PL, Serie A, La Liga clubs all credited with interest.

When we played down there, Easter Monday I believe, a club employee I was talking to said they had been Scouts watching him for months. West Ham seemed really keen and Palace according to him, just by the number of times they had him watched. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Silvio Dante said:

But - again - it’s where the market is for a player of Tommys age and record, and crucially, for the amount we value him at. I’m not disagreeing it would be madness to pay it, but it was totally foreseeable that this would arise.

Well this is it, well put.

Delap a guy with a similar 2 year record at a similar 2 year age even accounting for Mark Ashton.. That fee and likely wage is just funny.

Far as I'm concerned he is still our best striker and I fear we will struggle for goals early on which will bring pressure on 2 young promising but raw strikers who really don't deserve it and it can be a vicious cycle.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

When we played down there, Easter Monday I believe, a club employee I was talking to said they had been Scouts watching him for months. West Ham seemed really keen and Palace according to him, just by the number of times they had him watched. 

Turned down a bid from Lazio iirc, then Wolves, Brentford, Celta Vigo all mentioned.

Plymouth can sit tight for their £15m or thereabouts or no deal really.

[And Its Smith]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That feels insultingly low. Although perhaps I'm out of touch also. 

"Yeah you're our top scorer x 2 before age 22, you possess significant room for growth, you compare reasonably v e.g. Delap..so £12.5k per week it is".

I did say ‘at least”

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I did say ‘at least”

Maybe £15k then...

All subjective isn't it what a Player is worth fees and wages. I just fear we have lowballed somewhere- possibly trying to be clever.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[robinforlife2]

2 hours ago, stortfordred said:

It’s not my money but based on last season I don’t understand why Twine would be worth that much more than Tommy. Or indeed any more. 

I personally agree. However, Manning wants Twine and he is top of the wish list. Burnley want 4-5m. Conway wants gone and can walk for free in the summer. Using him as leverage, means we get Twine for a more likely fee we want to pay, we offload Conway and have a sell on, which means if he becomes a very good player, we will do very well out of it. 

[Ashton Fete]

Personally I think his value in the circumstances is £2m with a sell on clause. 

His stats stand up with similar players as data by people far cleverer than I has shown. It’s pretty decent but no where near enough to be the highest earner or near to. 

We haven’t played to his strengths and I think a creative 10 would maximise his potential which we’ll probably see at another club now and I think he’ll do well his career probably a yo yo Prem/Champ team. 

The way the club have handled this from start to finish in being so public is so amateurish and let’s hope lessons learnt as we’ve probably contributed to him now having a lower market value

However IMO and forgetting new signings, the following players are more important to our success this season and overall impact-  O’Leary, Pring, Roberts, Vyner, Dickie, Tanner, Knight and Williams 

So with the new players coming in…dare I say it I don’t think he’ll be that missed…

(Braced for backlash )

[bcfc01]

4 minutes ago, Ashton Fete said:

Personally I think his value in the circumstances is £2m with a sell on clause. 

His stats stand up with similar players as data by people far cleverer than I has shown. It’s pretty decent but no where near enough to be the highest earner or near to. 

We haven’t played to his strengths and I think a creative 10 would maximise his potential which we’ll probably see at another club now and I think he’ll do well his career probably a yo yo Prem/Champ team. 

The way the club have handled this from start to finish in being so public is so amateurish and let’s hope lessons learnt as we’ve probably contributed to him now having a lower market value

However IMO and forgetting new signings, the following players are more important to our success this season and overall impact-  O’Leary, Pring, Roberts, Vyner, Dickie, Tanner, Knight and Williams 

So with the new players coming in…dare I say it I don’t think he’ll be that missed…

(Braced for backlash )

I agree with most of that, not sure the club have been at all amateurish though.

As to his value, given the circumstances, I think your valuation is about right maybe double it if he had another year left on his contract at this time. I'd also agree that there are more important players than him and also that they should be higher earners, but I do think that he'll be missed.

 

[Ashton Fete]

7 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I agree with most of that, not sure the club have been at all amateurish though.

As to his value, given the circumstances, I think your valuation is about right maybe double it if he had another year left on his contract at this time. I'd also agree that there are more important players than him and also that they should be higher earners, but I do think that he'll be missed.

 

Oh of course he’ll be missed, not saying he won’t be but I think he’s easier to replace in terms of quality than some of the others.

The amateurish comment is around being so open around the positions we wanted to sign and commenting as we’ve gone along around timescales and stating around TC and the need to sell him which we’ve been public about for some time as well as how we’ve spoken about ST and wanting to sign him etc

I just think in any negotiation whether TC or ST you need to keep some cards close to your chest and options open to tactically make decisions whereas all ours on the table for all to see which may now mean we lose TC for less than we might have done as clubs will IMO start the bids lower potentially than they would have done as they know we want rid “sooner rather than later”

Edited July 20 by Ashton Fete

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, Ashton Fete said:

Personally I think his value in the circumstances is £2m with a sell on clause. 

His stats stand up with similar players as data by people far cleverer than I has shown. It’s pretty decent but no where near enough to be the highest earner or near to. 

We haven’t played to his strengths and I think a creative 10 would maximise his potential which we’ll probably see at another club now and I think he’ll do well his career probably a yo yo Prem/Champ team. 

The way the club have handled this from start to finish in being so public is so amateurish and let’s hope lessons learnt as we’ve probably contributed to him now having a lower market value

However IMO and forgetting new signings, the following players are more important to our success this season and overall impact-  O’Leary, Pring, Roberts, Vyner, Dickie, Tanner, Knight and Williams 

So with the new players coming in…dare I say it I don’t think he’ll be that missed…

(Braced for backlash )

£2m is low, IMO. Feels like we are selling ourselves short there.

Each to their own, to me he (Conway) is our best striker.

Those players and players of those profile are solid players, yes some can chip in with goals but they feel like they will steer you to midtable- feels a midtable season again to me with lack of goals a further downside risk.

[Ashton Fete]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

£2m is low, IMO. Feels like we are selling ourselves short there.

Each to their own, to me he (Conway) is our best striker.

Those players and players of those profile are solid players, yes some can chip in with goals but they feel like they will steer you to midtable- feels a midtable season again to me with lack of goals a further downside risk.

Yeah it’s definitely low but I think the club have contributed to that. I think how we’ve handled it means it will be lower than it would have been had we been less public. 

Clubs know we want rid and so bids will start lower. As a comparison look at how QPR handled Armstrong, they clearly wanted to shift him on but with none of the public commentary until he was sold

Without seeing the new players it’s hard to say if the best but compared with Wells and Cornick he is way ahead.

I think TC with a creative 10 such as ST would get 20 goals but it’s all now hypothetical which is a shame but we are where we are and I think he’ll have a great career 

[ExiledAjax]

47 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

£15k

Which would put him roughly on par with Knight (then with appearance and goal bonuses it's getting towards £20k a week in reality). I'd say that's about the right offer for Conway.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

Which would put him roughly on par with Knight (then with appearance and goal bonuses it's getting towards £20k a week in reality). I'd say that's about the right offer for Conway.

The £15-20k bracket then?

Is Knight our top earner then? Vyner, Pring no given they signed new deals?

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The £15-20k bracket then?

Is Knight our top earner then? Vyner, Pring no given they signed new deals?

I've no idea where he fits into the overall structure but I know Knight's wages for certain.

If I'm Knight and Conway gets significantly more than me then I'm livid.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I've no idea where he fits into the overall structure but I know Knight's wages for certain.

If I'm Knight and Conway gets significantly more than me then I'm livid.

Is Conway or Knight superior though.

Superior and more important are two separate things- okay then on a par with Knight perhaps.

I feel we have lowballed Conway somewhere, or that we might have- sought to exploit his loyalty a bit. His agent is also well..less said the better but we all remember Mr. Danny Coles.

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is Conway or Knight superior though.

Superior and more important are two separate things- okay then on a par with Knight perhaps.

I feel we have lowballed Conway somewhere, or that we might have- sought to exploit his loyalty a bit. His agent is also well..less said the better but we all remember Mr. Danny Coles.

Knight is vastly more important to the squad, and far harder to replace in my opinion.

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Knight is vastly more important to the squad, and far harder to replace in my opinion.

Knight is great and an astute acquisition at the price. They are also a different profile of player.

I don't see us doing that well for goals early with the likely succession plan and pressure could mount. Hopefully Conway is so easy to replace.

Question is how much would, should it cost to buy someone of Conway's record if it was roles reversed?

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I dunno whether this holds, it was 2012 and it isn't my area of expertise but it does seem that Category of Academy can play or has in the past a role in the compensation formula.

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/the-eppp-and-why-youth-development-matters/

That is EPPP compensation.  Very different to the compo scheme that would apply to Tommy.  EFL PFCC Compensation is you reference point in the EFL Rules.

1 hour ago, Ashton Fete said:

Personally I think his value in the circumstances is £2m with a sell on clause. 

His stats stand up with similar players as data by people far cleverer than I has shown. It’s pretty decent but no where near enough to be the highest earner or near to. 

We haven’t played to his strengths and I think a creative 10 would maximise his potential which we’ll probably see at another club now and I think he’ll do well his career probably a yo yo Prem/Champ team. 

The way the club have handled this from start to finish in being so public is so amateurish and let’s hope lessons learnt as we’ve probably contributed to him now having a lower market value

However IMO and forgetting new signings, the following players are more important to our success this season and overall impact-  O’Leary, Pring, Roberts, Vyner, Dickie, Tanner, Knight and Williams 

So with the new players coming in…dare I say it I don’t think he’ll be that missed…

(Braced for backlash )

Sensible post.

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

I agree with most of that, not sure the club have been at all amateurish though.

As to his value, given the circumstances, I think your valuation is about right maybe double it if he had another year left on his contract at this time. I'd also agree that there are more important players than him and also that they should be higher earners, but I do think that he'll be missed.

 

Anything negative that comes out like this isn’t good, regardless of adjective used.

44 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I've no idea where he fits into the overall structure but I know Knight's wages for certain.

If I'm Knight and Conway gets significantly more than me then I'm livid.

I think there is too much discussion about £10k here, £15k there.  It’s all a bit futile if we are trying to hypothesise “what if we’d offered x or offered y”.

The facts are he’s been offered contract(s) over the past 12 months that he hasn’t accepted and that he’s stopped negotiating.

I don’t think the amounts being discussed are really relevant, because we don’t know them.

[citywest30]

I know I'm late to the party with this but it doesn't feel like him being with the u21s is a punishment. Feels more like he wants to go and we know something is going to happen fairly soon.

If that is the case then it is totally understandable that Manning wants to focus on the players that will be here. Who knows, maybe TC is happy with the situation too - keeping up his fitness levels whilst working with the younger players. 

For me the headline U21 exile creates a narrative that may not be there.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just realised I got my stats slightly wrong before, for which I apologise.

I said 19 Goals and 4 Assists in 69 Championship Games, actually in 73 Championship Games.

Therefore 14 Non Penalty Goals and 4 Assists in 68 Games. Still compares alright however.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Major Isewater]

52 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just realised I got my stats slightly wrong before, for which I apologise

[spudski]

Reading the quote from Manning, it reads that Conway doesn't want to be here regardless of money offered. 

Contract offered, Agent/Player didn't come back to negotiate a deal, which Manning says indicates he doesn't want to be here. 

Manning says he speaks with Tommy all the time and is on good terms. 

If that's the case imo, he would have asked Conway straight as to whether he wants to be here regardless of money. 

If it's money....say so.

If not...just say he wants away regardless. 

No shame in either. 

 

[REDOXO]

The general assumption appears to be Tommy Conway wants away due to better prospects/money at a bigger club. 
 

it’s clear that Tommy didn’t immediately sign a contract when originally offered last summer. No doubt!! whether he would have if Pearson was still here we will never know

Keep in mind that if he had signed his wage would have increased exponentially immediately the ink was on the paper and the chance of a bigger club coming in would still be the same!
 

The fact is he is still on the same money he was twelve months ago and is prepared to see the contract through which rather blows a hole through the greedy little bastard theory. Doesn’t it??

So where does that leave everyone! 
 

The statement from Mr Manning/ BCFC to the local beeb is telling. Mr Manning states that HE and Tommy Have not fallen out! Now you read between very broad lines, that there is a situation at the club but does not involve Conway and Manning directly 

The sooner this is sorted the better for all. But all the press, media podcast and silly little man on twitter comments come directly or indirectly from the Club. (Approved at a minimum by BT and or JL) Nothing from Conway  

Dont get sucked in to the propaganda would be my advice  

 

Edited July 20 by REDOXO

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The general assumption appears to be Tommy Conway wants away due to better prospects/money at a bigger club. 
 

it’s clear that Tommy didn’t immediately sign a contract when originally offered last summer. No doubt!! whether he would have if Pearson was still here we will never know

Keep in mind that if he had signed his wage would have increased exponentially immediately the ink was on the paper and the chance of a bigger club coming in would still be the same!
 

The fact is he is still on the same money he was twelve months ago and is prepared to see the contract through which rather blows a hole through the greedy bastard theory. Doesn’t it??

So where does that leave everyone! 
 

The statement from Mr Manning/ BCFC to the local beeb is telling. Mr Manning states that HE and Tommy Have not fallen out! Now you read between very broad lines, that there is a situation at the club but does not involve Conway and Manning 

The sooner this is sorted the better for all. But all the press, media podcast and silly little man on twitter comments come directly or indirectly from the Club. Nothing from Conway  

Dont get sucked in to the propaganda would be my advice  

 

Good post. And I agree, if you cut through all the bull:

- Tommy has left a lot of money on the table

- Liam has no issue with Tommy.

So, who does…..?

[Henry]

If he’s had no interest in signing for over a year, why not sell him last summer or Jan?

Manning and Tinnion have basically taken a player probably valued at 8-12m and devalued him by 70/80%. 
 

Pair of clowns.

[REDOXO]

7 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Good post. And I agree, if you cut through all the bull:

- Tommy has left a lot of money on the table

- Liam has no issue with Tommy.

So, who does…..?

I guess the bloke with all the public and covert comments. If we lose a shit tonne of money who is everyone looking to!?

The attacks on the kid are what I would expect from anyone who has one tool in his box. 

6 minutes ago, Henry said:

If he’s had no interest in signing for over a year, why not sell him last summer or Jan?

Junior and Tinnion have basically taken a player probably valued at 8-12m and devalued him by 70/80%. 
 

Pair of clowns.

Fixed

[Henry]

9 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I guess the bloke with all the public and covert comments. If we lose a shit tonne of money who is everyone looking to!?

The attacks on the kid are what I would expect from anyone who has one tool in his box. 

Fixed

The way Manning set up the team and coached Conway devalued him IMO.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Henry said:

The way Manning set up the team and coached Conway devalued him IMO.

I absolutely 1000% agree. I also think this is a massive part of why we are where we are!

However Junior and Tinman put him in place and are responsible for player negotiations. 
 

The utter shit I’ve read on this thread (and elsewhere) about the kid is insane! 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Henry said:

If he’s had no interest in signing for over a year, why not sell him last summer or Jan?

Manning and Tinnion have basically taken a player probably valued at 8-12m and devalued him by 70/80%. 
 

Pair of clowns.

Possibly?

But I bet a Lansdown is involved somewhere!!!

27 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The general assumption appears to be Tommy Conway wants away due to better prospects/money at a bigger club. 
 

it’s clear that Tommy didn’t immediately sign a contract when originally offered last summer. No doubt!! whether he would have if Pearson was still here we will never know

Keep in mind that if he had signed his wage would have increased exponentially immediately the ink was on the paper and the chance of a bigger club coming in would still be the same!
 

The fact is he is still on the same money he was twelve months ago and is prepared to see the contract through which rather blows a hole through the greedy little bastard theory. Doesn’t it??

So where does that leave everyone! 
 

The statement from Mr Manning/ BCFC to the local beeb is telling. Mr Manning states that HE and Tommy Have not fallen out! Now you read between very broad lines, that there is a situation at the club but does not involve Conway and Manning directly 

The sooner this is sorted the better for all. But all the press, media podcast and silly little man on twitter comments come directly or indirectly from the Club. (Approved at a minimum by BT and or JL) Nothing from Conway  

Dont get sucked in to the propaganda would be my advice  

 

I made a similar point yesterday, not as well as you though.

Remember the Lansdown Family Motto - no not “always believe” but always get your story out first!

Ss a fanbase this summer seemed fairly chilled, targets defined, just the three, ought to have been a fairly simple summer.  How has it turned into this.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Possibly?

But I bet a Lansdown is involved somewhere!!!

I made a similar point yesterday, not as well as you though.

Remember the Lansdown Family Motto - no not “always believe” but always get your story out first!

Ss a fanbase this summer seemed fairly chilled, targets defined, just the three, ought to have been a fairly simple summer.  How has it turned into this.

What’s that in Latin Dave?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

What’s that in Latin Dave?

Clusterius et Thuckerio

[slartibartfast]

5 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I absolutely 1000% agree. I also think this is a massive part of why we are where we are!

However Junior and Tinman put him in place and are responsible for player negotiations. 
 

The utter shit I’ve read on this thread (and elsewhere) about the kid is insane! 

IYHO 

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

IYHO 

Never humble!

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The utter shit I’ve read on this thread (and elsewhere) about the kid is insane! 

Spot on.

Some real belters on wider social media..the whole stance by swathes of our fans is batshit all told.

Certain loud public City fans backing it, shows that empty vessels make lots of noise.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[spudski]

I can't help but think his close friendship with Alex and how he left the Club would have had an affect on the lad. 

Going to the Euros as well at such a young age, being a part of the big time, will also have had an affect. 

Agents talk, getting in the players ears etc. 

' You want a move, run your contract down, we'll take you at a reduced rate and you'll get a bigger wage ' etc etc. 

He knows someone will come in for him. Even if he became a free agent. 

And the Club knows that. 

It's a Mexican stand off. 

 

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

I can't help but think his close friendship with Alex and how he left the Club would have had an affect on the lad. 

Going to the Euros as well at such a young age, being a part of the big time, will also have had an affect. 

Agents talk, getting in the players ears etc. 

' You want a move, run your contract down, we'll take you at a reduced rate and you'll get a bigger wage ' etc etc. 

He knows someone will come in for him. Even if he became a free agent. 

And the Club knows that. 

It's a Mexican stand off. 

 

You might be right. Who knows. But that really doesn’t happen that often.

 Clubs on some levels are handing out very long contracts and one injury buggers everyone if you are OOC on months. 
 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Why did we not offer him a 4 year deal in 2022..or 3 years with a club option.

Hindsight etc but it was just the 3 Year deal in Summer 2022.

[slartibartfast]

20 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Never humble!

Nor Honest ?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Back to 2022.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/its-a-proud-moment-conway/

Why not a 4 year deal or a 3+1 in Club's favour.

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[slartibartfast]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Back to 2022.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/its-a-proud-moment-conway/

Why not a 4 year deal or a 3+1 in Club's favour.

Never be sorry as my mate used to say albeit I'm possibly missing the point or whooshing myself.

I think you must be, humble and sorry are nothing a like.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, slartibartfast said:

I think you must be, humble and sorry are nothing a like.

I think I might be missing the point..whooshed myself yeah.

[mozo]

8 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

The simple answer to that, again, is the planet where Bristol City FC are demanding a fee north (and it’s believed some way north) of £5m for him.

I don’t think he’s worth that.

Mate, I'll press you on this because you might have intel that I don't (most people do!)...

You've referenced a few times our high valuation of Conway. Are you suggesting that reasonable bids have been turned down?

Has there been a £3m bid turned down, for example, with Tinnion telling the bidding club to pay up or get stuffed? Have suitors been deterred?

I just don't know if it's City's posturing that you're concerned about, or an actual instance of self-harm?

[REDOXO]

14 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Nor Honest ?

Agh I originally read that as the ironic No Honest. 
 

I don’t know where the Nor honest  comment comes from? Do you have something to add to the last page or do you think you know me? 

Edited July 20 by REDOXO

[Kid in the Riot]

33 minutes ago, spudski said:

I can't help but think his close friendship with Alex and how he left the Club would have had an affect on the lad. 

Correct 

[Silvio Dante]

14 minutes ago, mozo said:

Mate, I'll press you on this because you might have intel that I don't (most people do!)...

You've referenced a few times our high valuation of Conway. Are you suggesting that reasonable bids have been turned down?

Has there been a £3m bid turned down, for example, with Tinnion telling the bidding club to pay up or get stuffed? Have suitors been deterred?

I just don't know if it's City's posturing that you're concerned about, or an actual instance of self-harm?

Fair question buddy and it’s more posturing. If we’d been happy with £3m and clubs had offered that (and let’s be frank they would based on TCs record and potential) he’d be gone. He’s totally marketable at sub £5m. We want more. And I’m not sure how realistic that is.

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

Fair question buddy and it’s more posturing. If we’d been happy with £3m and clubs had offered that (and let’s be frank they would based on TCs record and potential) he’d be gone. He’s totally marketable at sub £5m. We want more. And I’m not sure how realistic that is.

 

I'm kind of lost in the wilderness regards TC's value now! 

[Cardy]

42 minutes ago, spudski said:

I can't help but think his close friendship with Alex and how he left the Club would have had an affect on the lad.

Not just Alex but a few other mates that he progressed through the ranks with. Some of whom have moved up the ladder & some who have moved downwards whom weren’t necessarily treated aswell as they might have been…..

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, Cardy said:

Not just Alex but a few other mates that he progressed through the ranks with. Some of whom have moved up the ladder & some who have moved downwards whom weren’t necessarily treated aswell as they might have been…..

Indeed, particularly in the case of Scott under the last medical team. 

You see what happened there and you're going to want to get your move asap

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

If he’s had no interest in signing for over a year, why not sell him last summer or Jan?

Manning and Tinnion have basically taken a player probably valued at 8-12m and devalued him by 70/80%. 
 

Pair of clowns.

Manning wasn’t here last summer. Then you suggest him sell one of his two striking options in January after he has been here two months? That would go down well. We can rely on 33 year old wells on his own for the rest of the season. That would have went down well. Don’t be daft. No one expected him to regress. Let’s not pretend he was firing them in under Pearson for those first 20 games. 

1 hour ago, Henry said:

The way Manning set up the team and coached Conway devalued him IMO.

Okay and others got better. It happens. You expect manning to change all his philosophies for one player? Whatever you think of manning’s style he should not sacrifice his beliefs so tommy Conway can score 16 instead of 11. Also, like i said he didn’t do much under Pearson to start the season. He was already thinking too far ahead in his career imo. I thought if anything he got more clear cut chances under manning than he did np

Edited July 20 by JoeAman08

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Reading the quote from Manning, it reads that Conway doesn't want to be here regardless of money offered. 

Contract offered, Agent/Player didn't come back to negotiate a deal, which Manning says indicates he doesn't want to be here. 

Manning says he speaks with Tommy all the time and is on good terms. 

If that's the case imo, he would have asked Conway straight as to whether he wants to be here regardless of money. 

If it's money....say so.

If not...just say he wants away regardless. 

No shame in either. 

 

Agree . I don’t know this obviously but I get the impression that Tommy has seen two of his mates leave for the prem & really believes he can do the same . Whilst I do think he’s a natural finisher & didn’t get many chances last season , in his position he’s nowhere near it . Bit unfair but In a way but che Adams done far more to stand out at brum before getting his move to Southampton & is miles off a reliable prem striker . 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Manning wasn’t here last summer. Then you suggest him sell one of his two striking options in January after he has been here two months? That would go down well. We can rely on 33 year old wells on his own for the rest of the season. That would have went down well. Don’t be daft. No one expected him to regress. Let’s not pretend he was firing them in under Pearson for those first 20 games. 

Okay and others got better. It happens. You expect manning to change all his philosophies for one player? Whatever you think of manning’s style he should not sacrifice his beliefs so tommy Conway can score 16 instead of 11. Also, like i said he didn’t do much under Pearson to start the season. He was already thinking too far ahead in his career imo. I thought if anything he got more clear cut chances under manning than he did np

Mehemti and.. who?

Somewhat wasted Sykes at wingback and in and out of the team.

Knight as a 10 was an interesting experiment.

The Conway point I wonder if data backs this up.

Hang on Conway was injured for 2 months give or take. Scored 2 in 4 or 5 games under NP?

Edited July 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, Cardy said:

Not just Alex but a few other mates that he progressed through the ranks with. Some of whom have moved up the ladder & some who have moved downwards whom weren’t necessarily treated aswell as they might have been…..

Towler for one.

Can see the same thing happening with Pring.

[steviestevieneville]

19 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Agree . I don’t know this obviously but I get the impression that Tommy has seen two of his mates leave for the prem & really believes he can do the same . Whilst I do think he’s a natural finisher & didn’t get many chances last season , in his position he’s nowhere near it . Bit unfair but In a way but che Adams done far more to stand out at brum before getting his move to Southampton & is miles off a reliable prem striker . 

Sorry for quoting myself , but I forgot to add . And as said previously I have no idea really but could it be , the call up last season to the jock u21’s which came out of the blue to many & the late call to the euros has inflated his ego ? He always seemed level headed but perhaps his aspirations has overtaken his ability . Time will tell . 
 

what I do know is . It will be a massive shame if he leaves on bad terms (fanbase) wise considering he’s been with so long & his journey leaving home into digs etc 

Edited July 20 by steviestevieneville

[Henry]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Possibly?

But I bet a Lansdown is involved somewhere!!!

I made a similar point yesterday, not as well as you though.

Remember the Lansdown Family Motto - no not “always believe” but always get your story out first!

Ss a fanbase this summer seemed fairly chilled, targets defined, just the three, ought to have been a fairly simple summer.  How has it turned into this.

You’re right, should have included Lansdown. I don’t blame Manning too much over the contract situation, that’s a club thing.

I do blame Manning for trying to coach Conway not to press or don’t involved in the play. That made him a worse player and has devalued him.