Tommy Conway - Signs for 'Boro- Official

[NcnsBcfc]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

If he’s still getting fed this stuff by Tinnion I have to say this is madness.

In different circumstances (like Conway with 2 or 3 years left on his deal) l rate him highly, then for me he’s worth a minimum of £5m, but that isn’t where we are.

A 21 year old who scored around the same number of goals in the Championship as TC last season is worth at least the same amount for a club under no pressure to sell.

That’s before we get to how we would accommodate him, one of Mayulu & Armstrong, plus whoever we are playing up front.

Hmm..

Exactly this @GrahamC.

I've called Ian out on his valuation, based on Conway being able to sign a pre contract with a foreign club (ie Rangers or Celtic) in less than 6 months for us only getting 300k max compo.

We gambled in the Summer of 2023 on contract shenanigans and lost. His mind was made up based on changing the goalposts. We thought(arrogantly) we could change his mind, we haven't.

He holds all the cards now. Not sure shifting him off to the under 21s is going to improve his worth. If he was playing in the 1st team next month, we might have had a chance of getting a worthy bid, as it stands that's less than hopeful.

[Loosey Boy]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What sort of compensation do we get it it comes down to that- or is it literally a bit of a coin toss?

Ian has stated £2.5m the other day plus add-ons.

If he goes to Scotland, £300k or somewhere in England, between £1m & £1.5m, I would think…..

A long way short of the £5m-£8m the club are rumoured to want 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

If he goes to Scotland, £300k or somewhere in England, between £1m & £1.5m, I would think…..

A long way short of the £5m-£8m the club are rumoured to want 

Thanks. That feels quite more like it...Ian and his £2.5m plus add-ons feels toppy.

Then would the fact again if it came to it, Conway playing U21 for a year also risk his value at a Tribunal or not really relevant?

[Robbored]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Is it?

It’s such common practice we rarely hear it, so when it does happen it’s a bit of a shock.  So not common place at all.

It is common practice Dave, lots of managers do it. Because we’re all City supporters not many of us take much notice of what’s going on at other clubs particularly those outside of the Championship.The same thing could happening elsewhere and we wouldn’t necessarily be aware of it.

It’s common sense to leave out a player who’s rejecting a new contract as it means the manager can’t include him  as he’s  not committed to the club.

Iirc Nige has done the same thing at other clubs. Senior Johnson has also adopted the same policy as did Junior Johnson.

 

Edited July 21 by Robbored

[citywest30]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

I’d prepare to be disappointed then…

The majority of clubs have seen that we’ve really shown our hand already. We effectively dont want him. Why pay through the nose for someone, when you’re doing the selling club a favour, and can also sign him in 6 months for peanuts?

I feel I probably will be disappointed but your second part feels like you're going along with the media story of him being 'exiled' in to the u21.

Now maybe you know more than me but I still hope that maybe there are developments behind the scenes and a potential move is being ironed out and so he is just in the u21 as it makes no sense including him in any of the preseason stuff if he is off.

Edited July 21 by citywest30

[Mr Popodopolous]

If there is a move behind the scenes being ironed out, is it standard practice to internally exile to the U-21?

[Silvio Dante]

41 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

What's you Twitter name @Silvio Dante?

As you can see I'm not letting Mr Gay off this time

I’m a Twitter lurker mate, I never post as me - only have it for the kids football account.

Think if I did I’d be barred immediately!

 

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What sort of compensation do we get it it comes down to that- or is it literally a bit of a coin toss?

Ian has stated £2.5m the other day plus add-ons.

Without knowing:

• What club is interested (there is no interest we are told)
• how much they’ve offered (there is no offer)
• how much we’ve offered (he’s pribsbly been told that or at least City’s version)
• how many clubs are interested (there is no interest we are told)
• etc

its impossible figure to come up with a figure.

By all means make up some scenarios, e.g. PL club offering £25k with, Champ PP club offering £20k pw, bids rejected of x, y and z.  But state that.  Don’t just repeat what Tinnion told you!

26 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It is common practice Dave, lots of managers do it. Because we’re all City supporters not many of us take much notice of what’s going on at other clubs particularly those outside of the Championship.The same thing could happening elsewhere and we wouldn’t necessarily be aware of it.

It’s common sense to leave out a player who’s rejecting a new contract as it means the manager can’t include him  as he’s  not committed to the club.

Iirc Nige has done the same thing at other clubs. Senior Johnson has also adopted the same policy as did Junior Johnson.

 

You’re replying to the wrong bloke then, because that’s exactly what I spend a lot of my free time doing…and I’ve not heard of any others.  What you’re really saying is YOU have no idea to back up your claim, aren’t you?

Can you name some players that either Johnson did it too?  And then relate to how many players might be entering the final year of their contract.  It ain’t common practice.

Edited July 21 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m a Twitter lurker mate, I never post as me - only have it for the kids football account.

Think if I did I’d be barred immediately!

 

I think I followed you, but now can’t remember your handle!

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If there is a move behind the scenes being ironed out, is it standard practice to internally exile to the U-21?

Wouldn’t have thought so, you’d try to conclude it with as little noise as possible.  

[NcnsBcfc]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Without knowing:

• What club is interested (there is no interest we are told)
• how much they’ve offered (there is no offer)
• how much we’ve offered (he’s pribsbly been told that or at least City’s version)
• how many clubs are interested (there is no interest we are told)
• etc

its impossible figure to come up with a figure.

By all means make up some scenarios, e.g. PL club offering £25k with, Champ PP club offering £20k pw, bids rejected of x, y and z.  But state that.  Don’t just repeat what Tinnion told you!

You’re replying to the wrong bloke then, because that’s exactly what I spend a lot of my free time doing…and I’ve not heard of any others.  What you’re really saying is YOU have no idea to back up your claim, aren’t you?

Can you name some players that either Johnson did it too?  And then relate to how many players might be entering the final year of their contract.  It ain’t common practice.

Certainly didn't do it with Vyner last season, when he was initially refusing to sign a contract.

We activated his option year and his agent played a blinder, making him the highest paid player at the club (apparently).

 

[Davefevs]

Just now, NcnsBcfc said:

Certainly didn't do it with Vyner last season, when he was initially refusing to sign a contract.

We activated his option year and his agent played a blinder, making him the highest paid player at the club (apparently).

 

Exactly!

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Wouldn’t have thought so, you’d try to conclude it with as little noise as possible.  

My thinking too..

The only thing I will say is demoting the player who is still on paper your present best (I know Wells career wise) to the U21s is ballsy but it doesn't seem considered and certainly not how you would facilitate an ongoing move.

Edited July 21 by Mr Popodopolous

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

You’re replying to the wrong bloke then, because that’s exactly what I spend a lot of my free time doing…and I’ve not heard of any others.  What you’re really saying is YOU have no idea to back up your claim, aren’t you?

Can you name some players that either Johnson did it too?  And then relate to how many players might be entering the final year of their contract.  It ain’t common practice.

So you’re aware of all the Championship clubs players, their length of contract, whether they’ve been offered another deal and whether they’ve accepted or turned it down? If you do then that’s remarkable Imo.

I assume that you have a full time job outside of football so I don’t know where you find the time to research all these details.

[NcnsBcfc]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If there is a move behind the scenes being ironed out, is it standard practice to internally exile to the U-21?

I think it's more the case that the club had lost, what they perceived to be control of the situation with Conway. Hence the Manning comments " We just need to sell him as quickly as possible"

I can forsee a situation where he goes for around 500k, with loads of add ons that "potentially" take the deal up to around £2m + a healthy sell on.

[Silvio Dante]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think I followed you, but now can’t remember your handle!

You’ve followed some random mate, I’ve got six followers on my personal account and haven’t posted!

[NcnsBcfc]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

So you’re aware of all the Championship clubs players, their length of contract, whether they’ve been offered another deal and whether they’ve accepted or turned it down? If you do then that’s remarkable Imo.

I assume that you have a full time job outside of football so I don’t know where you find the time to research all these details.

I think he made the points @Robbored about City players, not all Championship players.

We all know players that have fallen out with City managers and been kicked out of the first team squad. 

However I'm struggling to think of a City player who is coming into the last year of his contract, no supposed falling out, that has been publicly demoted to the Under 21s (which basically this year is full of last year's under 18s).

[petehinton]

For those pondering friendlies & 21s games, my gut feel is he doesn’t play any games full stop. Trains with 21s, and that’s your lot. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

So you’re aware of all the Championship clubs players, their length of contract, whether they’ve been offered another deal and whether they’ve accepted or turned it down? If you do then that’s remarkable Imo.

I assume that you have a full time job outside of football so I don’t know where you find the time to research all these details.

You made a claim with nothing to back it up.

If you wanna go down that line, here’s a start:

This is every Championship player that was OOC in the summer that hasn’t agreed terms yet:

Heres all the players that decided to re-sign:

I enjoy my hobby, I spend a lot of non-work hours on it.  Sometimes in the middle of the night, because I’m often woken up to sort Joe out, and can’t get back off to sleep.

I don’t profess to know every single thing that’s going on, but I didn’t want to make it a Willy-waving competition.

I just asked you to back it up?

 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I think it's more the case that the club had lost, what they perceived to be control of the situation with Conway. Hence the Manning comments " We just need to sell him as quickly as possible"

I can forsee a situation where he goes for around 500k, with loads of add ons that "potentially" take the deal up to around £2m + a healthy sell on.

I still think we’ll get a bit more than that.

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

You made a claim with nothing to back it up.

If you wanna go down that line, here’s a start:

This is every Championship player that was OOC in the summer that hasn’t agreed terms yet:

Heres all the players that decided to re-sign:

I enjoy my hobby, I spend a lot of non-work hours on it.  Sometimes in the middle of the night, because I’m often woken up to sort Joe out, and can’t get back off to sleep.

I don’t profess to know every single thing that’s going on, but I didn’t want to make it a Willy-waving competition.

I just asked you to back it up?

 

I think someone shared a very recent example from France  but that's all I know of 

[redsquirrel]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That would be intriguing, I didn't have him down as so petty though.

Jon and or Brian moreso.

jon wouldnt know he could do that, i could imagine an 'after all ive done for you' reaction from someone else tho

[Lrrr]

22 minutes ago, petehinton said:

For those pondering friendlies & 21s games, my gut feel is he doesn’t play any games full stop. Trains with 21s, and that’s your lot. 

That really would be spiting ourselves even more, at least if he went with the 21's and bagged a hattrick or something it could encourage a team to come to the table. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

jon wouldnt know he could do that, i could imagine an 'after all ive done for you' reaction from someone else tho

Yeah very true.

I'd be intrigued to know the thought process behind "How dare you turn down a contract" "It's not fair- you can play with the Youth Team for a year".

Seems a real amateurish approach to take and I don't see how it helps to protect or enhance his value either.

[citywest30]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If there is a move behind the scenes being ironed out, is it standard practice to internally exile to the U-21?

I'm not sure how often we're forced into selling a player we want to keep who only has a year left. I'd say most of our sales are different to this where if it didn't go through the player in question would still play.

[redsquirrel]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah very true.

I'd be intrigued to know the thought process behind "How dare you turn down a contract" "It's not fair- you can play with the Youth Team for a year".

Seems a real amateurish approach to take and I don't see how it helps to protect or enhance his value either.

you would like to think it wasnt like that and just a bit of a premature decision. somebody else already said they have now put added pressure on to armstrong and fally in getting the goals aswell as settling in to a new club. Tommy would still have done his best to enhance his own career prospects, at least until a move to another club was pencilled in. he would have been a useful addition if either of those are having an off day or getting marked out of the game

[petehinton]

37 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

That really would be spiting ourselves even more, at least if he went with the 21's and bagged a hattrick or something it could encourage a team to come to the table. 

But by their logic, he’d be taking minutes off ‘the next Tommy’ if he plays any part of any game. So they’ve backed themselves into a corner hugely. 
 

I have every faith they’ll explain eloquently….

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

you would like to think it wasnt like that and just a bit of a premature decision. somebody else already said they have now put added pressure on to armstrong and fally in getting the goals aswell as settling in to a new club. Tommy would still have done his best to enhance his own career prospects, at least until a move to another club was pencilled in. he would have been a useful addition if either of those are having an off day or getting marked out of the game

Definitely it is a red flag of mine, two new, exciting yet relatively raw needing to adjust strikers to take up the mantle. Plus Nakhi of course. No pressure..

I agree, would have been in the interests of Tommy to play and play hard if considered for selection.

[Silvio Dante]

14 minutes ago, petehinton said:

But by their logic, he’d be taking minutes off ‘the next Tommy’ if he plays any part of any game. So they’ve backed themselves into a corner hugely. 
 

I have every faith they’ll explain eloquently….

Keep up Pete, we need to win the FA Youth cup above anything else. It’s the clubs strategy and we shouldn’t question the glory that brings to the club.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Definitely it is a red flag of mine, two new, exciting yet relatively raw needing to adjust strikers to take up the mantle. Plus Nakhi of course. No pressure..

I agree, would have been in the interests of Tommy to play and play hard if considered for selection.

FWIW Mr P, we’ve now signed Armstrong (as Tommy’s squad member replacement).  They (Armstrong and Mayulu) are the top of the pecking order….they won’t be bedded in by Tommy.

Had we not signed Armstrong then that’s different, but we’ve laid our cards on the table with our signings. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW Mr P, we’ve now signed Armstrong (as Tommy’s squad member replacement).  They (Armstrong and Mayulu) are the top of the pecking order….they won’t be bedded in by Tommy.

Had we not signed Armstrong then that’s different, but we’ve laid our cards on the table with our signings. 

This is true Dave.

I hope it pays off, feels a bit of a gamble though- perhaps I am underestimating Fally in particular.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is true Dave.

I hope it pays off, feels a bit of a gamble though- perhaps I am underestimating Fally in particular.

You should just be open-minded Mr P.

Ive watched a lot of clips of Mayulu and Hirakawa, different focusses, e.g. link with midfield, offensive duels, defensive duels, dribbles, aerial duels to get an idea of their game style…and both show up really well in the leagues they are playing in.  ditto Sinclair last weekend when I was tipped the wink.

The big unknown is the transition to EFL, to England, to Bristol.  But if you take that out of the equation, and just look at them at their own clubs, neither are mugs.  Forget Mayulu’s age.  He’s the same age (within a month) of Tommy Conway.  This will be the 4th country he’s played in.

Watch the Newport game on Tuesday and use that as your first (but not last) pointer.  

[headhunter]

2 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Exactly this @GrahamC.

I've called Ian out on his valuation, based on Conway being able to sign a pre contract with a foreign club (ie Rangers or Celtic) in less than 6 months for us only getting 300k max compo.

We gambled in the Summer of 2023 on contract shenanigans and lost. His mind was made up based on changing the goalposts. We thought(arrogantly) we could change his mind, we haven't.

He holds all the cards now. Not sure shifting him off to the under 21s is going to improve his worth. If he was playing in the 1st team next month, we might have had a chance of getting a worthy bid, as it stands that's less than hopeful.

Not read all of this thread but just on the subject of players being "frozen out" did GJ give Basso the cold shoulder for a while for not leaping to sign a new contract?

[RedRoss]

I somewhat respect the decision that we're not investing game time in Tommy to further his own self interest. I understand his decision so I'm not saying that bitterly. However, I also understand why we would want to progress other players before him. He's not committing to us so we're not committing to him I guess. 

Yet it seems the club could of dealt with this better from afar. It's the lack of action early that has left us in this state. We seem to think we're always going to convince the player before it gets tricky. You'd of thought we would have learnt from Massengo ect.

Inevitably every club has a player that runs down their contract. Perhaps we could have just played him whilst being up for sale like JCH at Peterborough (although he left on a free nonetheless) and retained worth on the pitch. 

His value will have plummeted due to length of contract, Tommy's stance and our very public stance. I feel the club would have been better placed to have kept that in house. We're always asking for more communication so guess that's what we've got. Although I think they could of said he picked up one of those mysterious pre transfer speculation injuries. 

Without knowing what interest is out there (apparently none) it's hard to say what to do next. If there is any interest I think a reasonable approach would be to hash out a deal quickly but not just accept any insulting offer. We will need to bring down our expectations considerably though. Especially if the Scottish interest is real. We really don't want this to linger like a bad smell whilst trying to build for the upcoming season. 

Overall, it's crap the way Tommy's time is coming to an end with us. Whoever anyone blames in this situation it's just not great unfortunately. The quicker this gets sorted the better. 

 

Edited July 21 by RedRoss

[E.G.Red]

I just think the situation is no good for anyone. TC is well within his rights to reject a new contract and I think the club have made a mistake , he could have trained with the first team and with the injuries we inevitably suffer been a useful reserve. All we've got now is a public demotion of a player with any club interested happy to wait until January.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

We're always asking for more communication so guess that's what we've got.

I wanted better comms, not more.

(good post btw)

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You should just be open-minded Mr P.

Ive watched a lot of clips of Mayulu and Hirakawa, different focusses, e.g. link with midfield, offensive duels, defensive duels, dribbles, aerial duels to get an idea of their game style…and both show up really well in the leagues they are playing in.  ditto Sinclair last weekend when I was tipped the wink.

The big unknown is the transition to EFL, to England, to Bristol.  But if you take that out of the equation, and just look at them at their own clubs, neither are mugs.  Forget Mayulu’s age.  He’s the same age (within a month) of Tommy Conway.  This will be the 4th country he’s played in.

Watch the Newport game on Tuesday and use that as your first (but not last) pointer.  

I will approach with an open mind Dave, yep. I did like some of what I read and saw in respect of Mayulu.

I don't doubt that they have positive attributes, my concern isn't always the individual players or even the manager. I'll try and watch some clips of them too.

[Johnny Musicworks]

Last year our chances of getting a deal done for Scott in the summer window were almost scuppered when he picked up an injury. By making Tommy train with the under 21’s at least we are reducing his chance of injury before the end of the window and in that aspect safeguarding our investment assuming he is sold in the next few weeks. 

[fly in the air]

I see Southampton are selling Adams. maybe a gap for Conway to go there

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

I see Southampton are selling Adams. maybe a gap for Conway to go there

They have him on their radar…whether first choice, I dunno.

[Bob Turnip]

15 hours ago, Robbored said:

So you’re aware of all the Championship clubs players, their length of contract, whether they’ve been offered another deal and whether they’ve accepted or turned it down? If you do then that’s remarkable Imo.

I assume that you have a full time job outside of football so I don’t know where you find the time to research all these details.

It was you that said it was common practice. You must have the done the research to know that? So come on then... back it up.

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Bob Turnip said:

It was you that said it was common practice. You must have the done the research to know that? So come on then... back it up.

I can’t remember particular examples. One I do remember is Styvar who was sent to the u21s. 

As I posted yesterday pretty much all proper managers do the same when they have  a player who’s been offered a new contract but turns it down which means that said player cannot be included in any future  plans as they’re obviously not committed to the club.

I know that Nige did it when he was reducing the wage bill. 

[Bob Turnip]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

I can’t remember particular examples. One I do remember is Styvar who was sent to the u21s. 

As I posted yesterday pretty much all proper managers do the same when they have  a player who’s been offered a new contract but turns it down which means that said player cannot be included in any future  plans as they’re obviously not committed to the club.

I know that Nige did it when he was reducing the wage bill. 

So it's common practice, everyone does it, including Nige, but you can't remember one example to back up your statement.....

[Super]

39 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

I see Southampton are selling Adams. maybe a gap for Conway to go there

Adams won't score goals in the Prem having said that Conway is hardly an upgrade on him.

[hertsexile]

An example of Nigel doing it was with Bakinson who had a attitude problem
Then sent out on loan to get him away from the club. 

Now look where Bakinson is now playing for Wycombe 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, hertsexile said:

An example of Nigel doing it was with Bakinson who had a attitude problem
Then sent out on loan to get him away from the club. 

Now look where Bakinson is now playing for Wycombe 

I’d forgotten about him.

[Mr Popodopolous]

50 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

I see Southampton are selling Adams

Thought Adams was out of contract unless he renewed?

Seem to recall he was earmarked as a Free Agent for Summer 2024.

[Clutton Caveman]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Wouldn’t have thought so, you’d try to conclude it with as little noise as possible.  

I think the lack of interest shows that Tommy overplayed his hand. I think he sees himself as the next Alex Scott which he is not. Last season he seemed to have lost his pace and spent more time telling others what to do than concentrating on his own game. Take away the pens and the goal return is pretty average. I think he would have been far better off negotiating a 2 year deal with a very realistic release clause. If we can't sell him he should be sent our on loan outside of the championship to get his wages paid. If he does well we might get a decent fee in the Jan window.

[cotswoldred2]

17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't see where you are coming from. I don't think he is dipping into the fees or anything, I'm just saying theoretically he could legally to repay bits of debt.

SL stated the nest egg last summer, has the dial moved notably?

I'm just saying why would he sign off on Conway to the U21? I don't see it enhancing value on or off the pitch.

The term nest egg has different connotations on here and imo is used to portray SL as someone who might be feathering his own nest. You know it, I know it and all the likes know it too.

As for why would Conway be in the U21's because he refuses to sign, the answer is because he refuses to sign, perhaps by not putting him in the shop window he might at least see some sense ...and sign.

It's football , it's what happens.

[Back of the Dolman]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

Adams won't score goals in the Prem having said that Conway is hardly an upgrade on him.

He’s got 25 goals and 13 assists in 124 appearances in the Prem.

Not terrible when you think that those won’t all be starting appearances and he hasn’t been playing for top teams 

[cotswoldred2]

Good man Mr P...

[BLRed]

Maybe we should offer Conway to Birmingham if they are throwing the cash around

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

The term nest egg has different connotations on here and imo is used to portray SL as someone who might be feathering his own nest. You know it, I know it and all the likes know it too.

As for why would Conway be in the U21's because he refuses to sign, the answer is because he refuses to sign, perhaps by not putting him in the shop window he might at least see some sense ...and sign.

It's football , it's what happens.

Yeah perhaps a clumsy use of words on my part. The nest egg idea was to try and compete with Parachute Clubs in the medium term iirc although the £25m per year for a Championship Club I'm afraid fanciful in this era IMO.

Still unconvinced of the wisdom of the U21s move though.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, hertsexile said:

An example of Nigel doing it was with Bakinson who had a attitude problem
Then sent out on loan to get him away from the club. 

Now look where Bakinson is now playing for Wycombe 

That wasn’t anything to do with Bakinson’s contract, that was because Nige had given him umpteen chances to do as he was told and he didn’t. (As you say)

6 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I think the lack of interest shows that Tommy overplayed his hand. I think he sees himself as the next Alex Scott which he is not. Last season he seemed to have lost his pace and spent more time telling others what to do than concentrating on his own game. Take away the pens and the goal return is pretty average. I think he would have been far better off negotiating a 2 year deal with a very realistic release clause. If we can't sell him he should be sent our on loan outside of the championship to get his wages paid. If he does well we might get a decent fee in the Jan window.

it’s only the club saying “lack of interest” to the fans, and we don’t know what they really mean by lack of interest, is that enquiries into his availability or full-blow formal bids?

[TammyAB]

7 minutes ago, BLRed said:

Maybe we should offer Conway to Birmingham if they are throwing the cash around

Will test Conway's "ambition" if a L1 team offers him a lucrative deal

[Davefevs]

My gut feel is that he’ll be gone by the end of the window and the club he goes to will’ve got a bargain in terms of transfer fee.  My only hope (within my gut feel) is that we manage to get some achievable add-ons / sell-on, but we aren’t in a strong negotiating position.

[Clutton Caveman]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That wasn’t anything to do with Bakinson’s contract, that was because Nige had given him umpteen chances to do as he was told and he didn’t. (As you say)

it’s only the club saying “lack of interest” to the fans, and we don’t know what they really mean by lack of interest, is that enquiries into his availability or full-blow formal bids?

Out of interest, based on last year, how much would you pay for him?

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Out of interest, based on last year, how much would you pay for him?

If I was Celtic and Rangers, knowing I might be able to wait 12 months and pick up a £300K steal I would certainly not be willing to pay more than a couple of million for a kid who is semi-proven (that's not knocking him, just basing it on his record and experience to date). He's not slow but he's not blisteringly quick, his hold-up play needs a lot of work and his finishing, whilst good, is not at EPL starting every week level. He needs work on his game to become closer to a finished article. What I would NOT be doing in that scenario is paying £5m plus..............if our hierarchy are expecting clubs to stump up close to that then they are living in cloud cuckoo land imo.

My best guess on this is we end up accepting a £1.5-£2m bid very late in the window, perhaps with a few add-ons. If he doesn't go this window then I think the Director of Football needs to come out and explain what is going on and what the club's stance is. I certainly do not see any clear logic in sticking someone in the 21's, then failing to sell him and then picking up a paltry amount of compo at the end of this coming season.....................on the flip side I don't see the sense in a 22/23 year old training with 21's, not getting minutes and being happy to hang around either!!

[ExiledAjax]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My gut feel is that he’ll be gone by the end of the window and the club he goes to will’ve got a bargain in terms of transfer fee.  My only hope (within my gut feel) is that we manage to get some achievable add-ons / sell-on, but we aren’t in a strong negotiating position.

Sell on % of profit is a pretty standard term nowadays, particularly for young players.

Also perversely a lower initial fee obviously raises the likelihood of us actually getting anything from a seller on. It will never be as good as getting £££ up front, but it may soften the blow and who knows maybe deliver a cash injection in 3 years time when we need it.

[bcfc01]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That wasn’t anything to do with Bakinson’s contract, that was because Nige had given him umpteen chances to do as he was told and he didn’t. (As you say)

it’s only the club saying “lack of interest” to the fans, and we don’t know what they really mean by lack of interest, is that enquiries into his availability or full-blow formal bids?

A player like TC would have lots of enquiries.

It may be a lack of interest in the fee being asked rather than lack of interest in the player. No point in making a formal up front bid if it is so far removed from the asking price.

Wouldn't surprise me if he moves on this window with a smaller up front figure with a shed load of add ons - sell on, appearances, goals, etc etc.

Club then announces it got the 8m (or whatever it is) fee it wanted for him.

 

 

[Supersonic Robin]

1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

A player like TC would have lots of enquiries.

It may be a lack of interest in the fee being asked rather than lack of interest in the player. No point in making a formal up front bid if it is so far removed from the asking price.

Wouldn't surprise me if he moves on this window with a smaller up front figure with a shed load of add ons - sell on, appearances, goals, etc etc.

Club then announces it got the 8m (or whatever it is) fee it wanted for him.

 

 

Clearly you haven't been to the Bristol City School of Twine Transfer Negotiations.

(Tip: the trick is to make multiple bids that are far removed from the asking price)

[NcnsBcfc]

22 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Clearly you haven't been to the Bristol City School of Twine Transfer Negotiations.

(Tip: the trick is to make multiple bids that are far removed from the asking price)

Ah, the Sinayoko approach ( 4 in the end...)

[NcnsBcfc]

38 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

A player like TC would have lots of enquiries.

It may be a lack of interest in the fee being asked rather than lack of interest in the player. No point in making a formal up front bid if it is so far removed from the asking price.

Wouldn't surprise me if he moves on this window with a smaller up front figure with a shed load of add ons - sell on, appearances, goals, etc etc.

Club then announces it got the 8m (or whatever it is) fee it wanted for him.

 

 

Just like a house for sale, or something on Ebay, everything will sell if it is at the right price.

Sounds to me now that City are going to have to be creative in the way in which they market Conway. A lower fee leading to add ons, sell on %'s etc.

Ultimately it'll be "undisclosed", but we're going to have to go some to convince either Celtic or Rangers to pump up anything above 500K initial fee for a player they can sign on a pre-contract in a little over 5 months for 300k compensation down the line.

Edited July 22 by NcnsBcfc

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Out of interest, based on last year, how much would you pay for him?

Conway?

Under these circumstances?

Now (22nd July)?

I’d hope we’d get £3m for him.

The longer it goes on?

the nearer to £2m it’ll get.

+++++

Back in May?

With Scotland call-up?

Thought of contract reconciliation?

I’d have put him at £6m(ish)

 

 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Ultimately it'll be "undisclosed", but we're going to have to go some to convince either Celtic or Rangers to pump up anything above 500K initial fee for a player they can sign on a pre-contract in a little over 5 months for 300k compensation down the line.

I disagree, because if he runs his contract down / goes pre-contract in January, if an English-interested club thinks Rangers and Celtic will get him for that puny amount, they’ll blow them out of the water…and City will sell to them. (Imho)

[NcnsBcfc]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I disagree, because if he runs his contract down / goes pre-contract in January, if an English-interested club thinks Rangers and Celtic will get him for that puny amount, they’ll blow them out of the water…and City will sell to them. (Imho)

Do you not think a foreign club (of course Scottish falls into that), would be able to put together a more lucrative financial package for Conway, based on paying probably only a fifth of the compensation that a domestic club might have to pay.

Ultimately it's Conway that holds the cards here for me. If it gets to the end of August with no takers, he might want to go out on loan somewhere for the season, safe in the knowledge that he'll be in an even stronger position negotiation wise come January 2025. 

Of course, like Che Adams is demonstrating, it's not just Scottish clubs that can take advantage of this compensation loophole. French, German, Italian. He's a young international player and the European market is open for all countries.

[frenchred]

2 hours ago, TammyAB said:

Will test Conway's "ambition" if a L1 team offers him a lucrative deal

I still think they will get in the premier before us

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Do you not think a foreign club (of course Scottish falls into that), would be able to put together a more lucrative financial package for Conway, based on paying probably only a fifth of the compensation that a domestic club might have to pay.

Ultimately it's Conway that holds the cards here for me. If it gets to the end of August with no takers, he might want to go out on loan somewhere for the season, safe in the knowledge that he'll be in an even stronger position negotiation wise come January 2025. 

Of course, like Che Adams is demonstrating, it's not just Scottish clubs that can take advantage of this compensation loophole. French, German, Italian. He's a young international player and the European market is open for all countries.

Just taking a fictitious example, if Leeds came in for him in between now and end of January, do you reckon he’d hang on for Rangers and Celtic, and might they offer enough both to him and City to make it happen?

If I was Rangers and Celtic I’d be being creative now, not January.  The longer they leave it, the more competition there’ll be for his signature.  And as we know pre-contract isn’t a done deal.  They can be usurped from 1st June 2025.

Tommy is likely to have a wider pick that Scotland.  As you say, Europe nets City the same as Scotland, but I think an OOC TC is of huge appeal in this country too.

[Numero Uno]

28 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Do you not think a foreign club (of course Scottish falls into that), would be able to put together a more lucrative financial package for Conway, based on paying probably only a fifth of the compensation that a domestic club might have to pay.

Ultimately it's Conway that holds the cards here for me. If it gets to the end of August with no takers, he might want to go out on loan somewhere for the season, safe in the knowledge that he'll be in an even stronger position negotiation wise come January 2025. 

Of course, like Che Adams is demonstrating, it's not just Scottish clubs that can take advantage of this compensation loophole. French, German, Italian. He's a young international player and the European market is open for all countries.

........sounds great from TC's perspective that "he can do as he likes because he holds all the cards" but don't forget that we will charge a loan fee and if clubs don't want to pay an amount that we deem to be sufficient worth then he's potentially sat on his arse for a season waiting for a club to stump up the compo this time next year. So whilst he is in a far stronger position than the club it's not ALL about the club bending over......it could end up being far messier than it already is!!

I'm sure he will be gone late on Deadline Day though.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

........sounds great from TC's perspective that "he can do as he likes because he holds all the cards" but don't forget that we will charge a loan fee and if clubs don't want to pay an amount that we deem to be sufficient worth then he's potentially sat on his arse for a season waiting for a club to stump up the compo this time next year. So whilst he is in a far stronger position than the club it's not ALL about the club bending over......it could end up being far messier than it already is!!

I'm sure he will be gone late on Deadline Day though.

I agree, Tommy doesn’t hold all the aces, but he has some of them, and maybe the odd wild card up his sleeve!