Tommy Conway - Signs for 'Boro- Official

[Mr Popodopolous]

My own view fwiw is the numbers stack up for Conway v Delap as in they're competitive.

Perhaps Delap is a bit better but some of the numbers do feel like Conway is underrated for whatever reason.

Any of Ugbo, Connolly, Stansfield would constitute interesting additions IMO albeit Connolly has attitude questions.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Thanks. I can't say I understand them though!!

Do the numbers stack up?  Are we right expect a big fee, or is he more at Rangers end of a valuation?

His numbers in the important part of the game - scoring - stack up very well, plus last season too.  And overall for the type of striker he is, the rest of his game is very tidy too.

Imho he’s top-end Champ, and only gonna get better.  I see SPL as a stepping stone only.

[sh1t_ref_again]

41 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

My own view fwiw is the numbers stack up for Conway v Delap as in they're competitive.

Perhaps Delap is a bit better but some of the numbers do feel like Conway is underrated for whatever reason.

Any of Ugbo, Connolly, Stansfield would constitute interesting additions IMO albeit Connolly has attitude questions.

If I am reading it correctly, 5 of the 10 Tommy's goals were penalties, so open play scored 5 in 39 (12.8%) games vs 8 in 31 (25%), so Delap twice as effective, this is also a skewed performance as depends how many minutes they were on in each game, how the team was performing etc etc

Tommy looked like a world beater with the 2 goal he scored against Rotherham, but after that not so much

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

If I am reading it correctly, 5 of the 10 Tommy's goals were penalties, so open play scored 5 in 39 (12.8%) games vs 8 in 31 (25%), so Delap twice as effective, this is also a skewed performance as depends how many minutes they were on in each game, how the team was performing etc etc

Tommy looked like a world beater with the 2 goal he scored against Rotherham, but after that not so much

Over 2 seasons though, recency bias (not saying you but it is a thing).

5/10 non Penalties, vs 8/8 for Delap, who also got 2 v 1 in Assists.

Conway on the flipside outperformed Delap in 2022-23 9 Goals none of them penalties and 3 Assists in 2022-23.

Over 2 years they are strongly similar when weighted for Goals v Non Penalty Goals, Assists, Age etc.

Edited July 9 by Mr Popodopolous

[sh1t_ref_again]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Over 2 seasons though, recency bias (bot saying you but it is a thing).

5/10 non Penalties, vs 8/8 for Delap, who also got 2 v 1 in Assists.

Conway on the flipside outperformed Delap in 2022-23 9 Goals none of them penalties and 3 Assists in 2022-23.

Over 2 years they are strongly similar when weighted for Goals v Non Penalty Goals, Assists, Age etc.

Its last year performance the graphs were looking at, which is more relevant to form, although it misses the 2 goals in the FA cup which would have improved his return per game. Of course we had Scott pulling the string in midfield the year before, how many would Delap have got in the same situation rather than at a struggling Stoke, equally how many would Tommy have got in Hulls side, 

I like Tommy and want him to stay as think he will come good, but last years performance was not great

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Its last year performance the graphs were looking at, which is more relevant to form, although it misses the 2 goals in the FA cup which would have improved his return per game. Of course we had Scott pulling the string in midfield the year before, how many would Delap have got in the same situation rather than at a struggling Stoke, equally how many would Tommy have got in Hulls side, 

I like Tommy and want him to stay as think he will come good, but last years performance was not great

I think over the 2 years they broadly balance out. Delap was at iirc Preston and Stoke on loan in two different styles.

The idea of a major differential between Delap and Conway though I don't see it..yet look at the price tag for Delap.

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

but last years performance was not great

Last year we didn't play great! 

This has been discussed on here before but it wasn't that Tommy was missing countless chances last season, we just wasn't creating him many chances. 

With the chances Tommy did have, he stacks up well. 

[Firstyardleftinbed]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think over the 2 years they broadly balance out. Delap was at iirc Preston and Stoke on loan in two different styles.

The idea of a major differential between Delap and Conway though I don't see it..yet look at the price tag for Delap.

The way I see it and I think the reason Ipswich are paying a lot more for Delap than we will get for Tommy (currently) is that Delap is quicker, stronger and a bit tidier technically/in his general play. Making him more effective for the team playing up front on his own and easier to fit in to different ways of playing.

Tommy has better movement in and around the box and is a better finisher but with teams playing one up front more and more goals coming from wide players these days I don't think clubs see goals as the absolute bottom line for strikers now and this gets reflected in some of the fees.

As a couple of people have mentioned, Tommy either needs to improve his general game (entirely possible) or play for a team that suits his strengths more. I'm hoping it's the former and he stays here because I dont think it will take too much for him to become a very good player and get a good Prem move but there's every chance he could be off.

Edited July 10 by Firstyardleftinbed

[Major Isewater]

Tommy is a very good young player with a steady return over two seasons at Championship level under two different managers. He has also notched for the Jock U21’s and been moved up to senior level.

IMHO he’s going to be a solid Prem player like Bobby Reid . 
 

How much would we have to pay to recruit a player of his quality and potential ? if a player like him would even consider us . 

[ciderincornwall]

13 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

TCs goals….https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/13175197/tommy-conways-best-championship-goals-2023-24

 

 

Some great goals in there. 

And you know that most of those saying "he's overrated" or "not good enough" would be the same ones demanding the club pay whatever it takes to bring in someone from Serie B based on nothing more than a much less impressive clips compilation they've seen on YouTube.

[cotswoldred2]

53 minutes ago, ciderincornwall said:

Some great goals in there. 

And you know that most of those saying "he's overrated" or "not good enough" would be the same ones demanding the club pay whatever it takes to bring in someone from Serie B based on nothing more than a much less impressive clips compilation they've seen on YouTube.

Certainly, if they wanted to actually play for the club.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Here’s 4 other youngish Champ strikers compared to TC.

If you look across each category, especially the goals category (red), and the ithers, there are a lot of good reasons why many clubs are interested.  Don’t take lack of bids as as indicator that he’s worse than he thinks he is.

Its quite possible City have priced him out of the market for the time being, but things change.

Better than Delap in most metrics whom I feel is quite overrated.  Quite interesting that Ipswich are supposed to be in for Delap.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Firstyardleftinbed said:

The way I see it and I think the reason Ipswich are paying a lot more for Delap than we will get for Tommy (currently) is that Delap is quicker, stronger and a bit tidier technically/in his general play. Making him more effective for the team playing up front on his own and easier to fit in to different ways of playing.

Tommy has better movement in and around the box and is a better finisher but with teams playing one up front more and more goals coming from wide players these days I don't think clubs see goals as the absolute bottom line for strikers now and this gets reflected in some of the fees.

As a couple of people have mentioned, Tommy either needs to improve his general game (entirely possible) or play for a team that suits his strengths more. I'm hoping it's the former and he stays here because I dont think it will take too much for him to become a very good player and get a good Prem move but there's every chance he could be off.

Interesting, the game is ever evolving after all.

Defence and midfield and wide vs strikers, the market is hard to gauge this summer so far- the first 3 categorised seem to so far be going for bigger money.

I think some of his technical stats aren't so different to Delap though.

From the Championship, post Covid there has been an increasing split in fees..defenders make up more of the top 10 than might be expected. Souttar £15m and Collins £10m are notably high for the position? Especially given Stoke haven't exactly been good at all post relegation. I haven't looked for a while granted.

Greaves will be going for 8 figures soon too.

22 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Better than Delap in most metrics whom I feel is quite overrated.  Quite interesting that Ipswich are supposed to be in for Delap.

Some reports suggested Delap was/is sought after by Southampton too, same price- down to him to choose.

Edited July 10 by Mr Popodopolous

[Firstyardleftinbed]

33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting, the game is ever evolving after all.

I think that's it. What clubs are looking for changes based on what the latest thinking is around how best to play. ie Defenders who can play out from the back cost more at the moment as everyone is trying to do this now. In 5 years time this might change again and there could be a revival of the Shaun Taylor style defender and they end up being more valuable 

Greaves going for 8 figures seems crazy to me though as he's always looked pretty average when I've watched him, but I suppose he has the physicality you need to play in the Prem and is able to play out from the back. Similar to Souttar and Collins, both not the finished article either but I guess teams thought it worth getting in early and if they kick on it ends up looking like a bargain down the line.

[sh1t_ref_again]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Last year we didn't play great! 

This has been discussed on here before but it wasn't that Tommy was missing countless chances last season, we just wasn't creating him many chances. 

With the chances Tommy did have, he stacks up well. 

Although last season we ended up with 3 more points and 3 places higher, scoring 2 less goals, not pretending we played great but the comparison was against the previous season

[bexhill reds]

43 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Although last season we ended up with 3 more points and 3 places higher, scoring 2 less goals, not pretending we played great but the comparison was against the previous season

Arguably the new system appears not to play to his strengths, and missing a large part of preseason due to his Euros bench sitting will only take him back further in his appreciation of how Manning wants the team to play especially with how much value he put on a full preseason. I suspect Conway could spend as much time sitting on our bench as he did for Scotland, especially if the club is successful signing a physical and mobile 9. For all his undoubted attributes some players just fail to fit in with new systems and are better off being moved on.

[ciderincornwall]

4 hours ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Certainly, if they wanted to actually play for the club.

I doubt any players that join us really WANT to play for the club. Hirakawa hasn't signed because he had a Wurzels poster on his wall growing up and playing for city's been a life long ambition. He's joined as it's the best option available to advance his career.

Almost all players move on for better offers or bigger clubs. It's that level of ambition that sets them up to make it in the competitive world of professional sport. 

As long as players give it their all whilst on the pitch, doing what they are paid to do until the end of their contract then that's them keeping to their end of the agreement. 

I'm not pleased about it, but the expectation of loyalty from players we seem to have as a fan base is entirely unrealistic.

[Cov 77]

On 10/07/2024 at 09:14, ciderincornwall said:

Some great goals in there. 

And you know that most of those saying "he's overrated" or "not good enough" would be the same ones demanding the club pay whatever it takes to bring in someone from Serie B based on nothing more than a much less impressive clips compilation they've seen on YouTube.

SSN reporting Celtic want club record of 25million for Matt O’Riley  from Atlanta ,  interesting if they were genuinely interested in Conway would have some spare cash to make a sensible offer ? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Cov 77 said:

SSN reporting Celtic want club record of 25million for Matt O’Riley  from Atlanta ,  interesting if they were genuinely interested in Conway would have some spare cash to make a sensible offer ? 

They have cash aplenty anyway, £72m in Cash and Cash equivalents as of 30th June 2023.

I doubt that has fallen drastically. What doesn't happen there is their Owner doesn't put money in much at all, £23m net or Gross something like in his entire tenure.

They are also miles clear of FFP.

Edited July 11 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

It is a total red herring that Celtic cannot strictly speaking if they want to, make a play for Conway right now.

It is just that it may not fit their business model, wage structure or whatever.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

On 10/07/2024 at 14:28, ciderincornwall said:

I doubt any players that join us really WANT to play for the club. Hirakawa hasn't signed because he had a Wurzels poster on his wall growing up and playing for city's been a life long ambition. He's joined as it's the best option available to advance his career.

Almost all players move on for better offers or bigger clubs. It's that level of ambition that sets them up to make it in the competitive world of professional sport. 

As long as players give it their all whilst on the pitch, doing what they are paid to do until the end of their contract then that's them keeping to their end of the agreement. 

I'm not pleased about it, but the expectation of loyalty from players we seem to have as a fan base is entirely unrealistic.

Being Japanese he might have a liking for cider. There's a big market for flavoured ciders in japan

[Ska Junkie]

27 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Being Japanese he might have a liking for cider. There's a big market for flavoured ciders in japan

'Cider' in Japan is white lemonade.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

'Cider' in Japan is white lemonade.

Bit like Strongbow then ? 
 

Edited July 11 by Major Isewater

[alexukhc]

19 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Bit like Strongbow then ? 
 

No that’s piss 

[Tom]

6 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Being Japanese he might have a liking for cider. There's a big market for flavoured ciders in japan

"Hirakawa fined after missing training to tend his artisanal cider orchard". 

[fly in the air]

any news on the other 2 signings Tinnion talked about. I wonder what the latest is on Twine is

[italian dave]

1 minute ago, fly in the air said:

any news on the other 2 signings Tinnion talked about. I wonder what the latest is on Twine is

There’s a 31 page thread just below this if you really want to catch up!!!

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

There’s a 31 page thread just below this if you really want to catch up!!!

There is an also a summarised version of whether there is a Twine update available here:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/no

[italian dave]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

There is an also a summarised version of whether there is a Twine update available here:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/no

31 pages in two letters! 

[Davefevs]

Might we see Celtic step up their pursuit of a new striker?

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Might we see Celtic step up their pursuit of a new striker?

Oh , shit. 

[Davefevs]

55 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Oh , shit. 

Didn’t know you were a Celtic fan

[Selred]

On 11/07/2024 at 19:55, Major Isewater said:

Bit like Strongbow then ? 
 

no, that's shite lemonade.

[Ivorguy]

In the name of god just sign or just go

[Davefevs]

I’m only guessing but wonder if Armstrong signs we have interest in Tommy.

[BritAbroad]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m only guessing but wonder if Armstrong signs we have interest in Tommy.

That's my thought. I don't think we'd buy another striker to have 4 competing for one spot.

[mozo]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m only guessing but wonder if Armstrong signs we have interest in Tommy.

Yeah, the dominoes then fall

[Lew-T]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m only guessing but wonder if Armstrong signs we have interest in Tommy.

Will be interesting to see where he goes. Did hear Cov are interested…

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Lew-T said:

Will be interesting to see where he goes. Did hear Cov are interested…

He's going to look stupid if that's the level of interest in him. 

[lenred]

7 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

He's going to look stupid if that's the level of interest in him. 

You could say Cov is a slight step up from us atm and if they play to his strengths then it will be a great opportunity for him to showcase his talents and then make the step up again, possibly - a la Gyokeres.  He’s not going anywhere here it seems under LM unfortunately so it gets him refreshed and revitalised again under a manager who will have targeted him.   All moot atm though! 

[Merrick's Marvels]

6 minutes ago, lenred said:

You could say Cov is a slight step up from us atm and if they play to his strengths then it will be a great opportunity for him to showcase his talents and then make the step up again, possibly - a la Gyokeres.  He’s not going anywhere here it seems under LM unfortunately so it gets him refreshed and revitalised again under a manager who will have targeted him.   All moot atm though! 

Yes but it's hardly a Scott-like transfer up the food chain, Len!

And does Robins play 2 up top? Can't see him ahead of Simms if it's just 1 up. 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yes but it's hardly a Scott-like transfer up the food chain, Len!

And does Robins play 2 up top? Can't see him ahead of Simms if it's just 1 up. 

Oh I 100% agree.  But he needs to get used to the fact that even if he is his best mate, he won’t be getting the same attention and money that Scott has - not now and most probably not ever!  
 

Good point re Simms.  Can’t see Tommy dislodging him if it were to happen.  
 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Lew-T said:

Will be interesting to see where he goes. Did hear Cov are interested…

I'm interested in buying a Ferrari. I can't afford one, but I am interested.  

[fly in the air]

I can't see him going to a celtic or Rangers. they will want better than him. maybe a championship club like Burnley maybe interested. he is only a average player at the moment. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

45 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

he is only a average player at the moment. 

Compared to other players in his age group, he's not average and that's the whole point. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Compared to other players in his age group, he's not average and that's the whole point. 

Nor is he average in terms of Championship strikers either, regardless of age group.

[Lew-T]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm interested in buying a Ferrari. I can't afford one, but I am interested.  

Yeah didn’t ask.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Coventry switch between a back 4 and a back 3, predominantly the former since mid November last year.

If he went there presumably he would be competing with Wright and Simms, 2 into 3 or 1 into 3 depending on setup albeit Wright can also play wider iirc.

[Midred]

Has he come back off holiday yet?

[Loosey Boy]

1 hour ago, Midred said:

Has he come back off holiday yet?

Yes, was back at the HPC yesterday 

[Midred]

2 hours ago, Loosey Boy said:

Yes, was back at the HPC yesterday 

Presumably McCrorie as well?

[HengroveReds]

https://www.ibroxnews.com/2024/07/16/philippe-clement-to-improve-tommy-conway-after-rangers-transfer-as-bristol-city-ace-ticks-boxes/

[Cov 77]

30 minutes ago, HengroveReds said:

https://www.ibroxnews.com/2024/07/16/philippe-clement-to-improve-tommy-conway-after-rangers-transfer-as-bristol-city-ace-ticks-boxes/

Not too patronising then

[cotswoldred2]

23 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Coventry switch between a back 4 and a back 3, predominantly the former since mid November last year.

If he went there presumably he would be competing with Wright and Simms, 2 into 3 or 1 into 3 depending on setup albeit Wright can also play wider iirc.

Flippin 'eck P give yourself a rest.......

[TV Tom]

41 minutes ago, HengroveReds said:

https://www.ibroxnews.com/2024/07/16/philippe-clement-to-improve-tommy-conway-after-rangers-transfer-as-bristol-city-ace-ticks-boxes/

Massive step down going to Rangers, if he has to go to Scotland then Parkhead would be the better destination if he wants to improve his career 

[hertsexile]

As Ibrox news states Conway is not quite the finished article he needs to mature and have the rough edges smoothed over. 
They are of course happy to wait until January at get a pre contract agreement in place to sign him for £300,000. 
Therefore Tommy do the right thing sign the contract on the table develop into the finished article at Ashton Gate learn from Nahki and when a proper club makes a reasonable offer for you the club will not stand in your way. 
This stand off is helping no one 

[Numero Uno]

28 minutes ago, hertsexile said:

As Ibrox news states Conway is not quite the finished article he needs to mature and have the rough edges smoothed over. 
They are of course happy to wait until January at get a pre contract agreement in place to sign him for £300,000. 
Therefore Tommy do the right thing sign the contract on the table develop into the finished article at Ashton Gate learn from Nahki and when a proper club makes a reasonable offer for you the club will not stand in your way. 
This stand off is helping no one 

It will help him even less if Liam gives the players who want to be at the club the first opportunity to earn a regular starting spot. He might get to January with a relative handful of minutes under his belt.

[ballwinningcentrehalf]

A Celtic move might become a bit more likely if the transfer they really want to make (Adam Idah) fails to materialise, but I can't see it at the moment. Plus Kyogo is still comfortably first choice there.

I think Rangers are a more interesting proposition for him. Their attacking department is in flux, and despite Dessers being their top scorer last season, he failed to convince the support and has been linked with a move away this summer. Rangers' other big money attacker Danilo was out injured for the majority of last season, and they probably can't afford the striker they'd really like in Lawrence Shankland. Think it's actually ripe for a Conway or someone else to go in there and grab a starting position early on.

If Conway doesn't move in the next few months I wouldn't be surprised to see either club looking towards a pre-contract in January.

[Glen hump]

1 hour ago, hertsexile said:

As Ibrox news states Conway is not quite the finished article he needs to mature and have the rough edges smoothed over. 
They are of course happy to wait until January at get a pre contract agreement in place to sign him for £300,000. 
Therefore Tommy do the right thing sign the contract on the table develop into the finished article at Ashton Gate learn from Nahki and when a proper club makes a reasonable offer for you the club will not stand in your way. 
This stand off is helping no one 

Rangers are a massive club’ I think there’s a few ignorant people don’t realise what rangers are’ I can see Conway going there doing well then getting a move to a ( proper club ) 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Without getting onto a Celtic v Rangers debate, or causing one I expect both Old Firm clubs in the fullness of time if in a bigger League wirh bigger TV, coverage commercial opportunities etc could flourish.

[Maltshoveller]

2 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Massive step down going to Rangers, if he has to go to Scotland then Parkhead would be the better destination if he wants to improve his career 

Hate Rangers 

But to say its a massive step down is a real joke

We can only dream of being anywhere near what Rangers are 

[lenred]

2 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Massive step down going to Rangers, if he has to go to Scotland then Parkhead would be the better destination if he wants to improve his career 

Having inadvertently been in the middle of a Rangers away day to Leipzig I can assure you that we are not in any way even in the same stratosphere size wise. 

[bcfc01]

20 minutes ago, lenred said:

Having inadvertently been in the middle of a Rangers away day to Leipzig I can assure you that we are not in any way even in the same stratosphere size wise. 

Big fish in a puddle.

Ranked 210 in the world (we don't make the top 250 and Celtic are 165).

 

[Red Army 75]

Rangers are a huge club. Just the league is shit. 
Hope he goes soon he has no interest in signing here it seems. 

[ciderwithtommy]

He trained with the 21s today so would imagine this will end quickly 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Maltshoveller said:

Hate Rangers 

But to say its a massive step down is a real joke

We can only dream of being anywhere near what Rangers are 

You would have to be on Class A drugs to ever think we were.

Both the Old Firm are massive clubs, that they play in a league that includes Ross County & St Mirren doesn’t alter that.

[Red Army 75]

3 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

He trained with the 21s today so would imagine this will end quickly 

Good 

[BigTone]

6 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

He trained with the 21s today so would imagine this will end quickly 

Hope so because just now I wouldn't care if he went to Congresbury !!

[Major Isewater]

6 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

He trained with the 21s today so would imagine this will end quickly 

So this means he is definitely off ? 
LM not wanting to hand information to a potential opponent ? 
Lighter training than the first team squad following his international obligations ? 
Liam showing him that he’s on the naughty step?

 

[ciderwithtommy]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

So this means he is definitely off ? 
LM not wanting to hand information to a potential opponent ? 
Lighter training than the first team squad following his international obligations ? 
Liam showing him that he’s on the naughty step?

 

All of the above I guess. You spend all that time and money on the Portugal trip to create togetherness, anyone not on board needs to go asap I guess. Such a poor end for a fan favourite, can’t help but think he has been poorly advised. Far better ways to leave with a reputation in tact.