Sinclair Armstrong - OFFICIALLY SIGNED

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

The difference is stoke are willing to put there money were there mouth is, we are not.

I completely get that, but the Rules are multi-layered and I've covered it on the FFP thread as to one possible scenario for Stoke and a few others.

We did spend tbh under Johnson and Ashton especially in the final 2 years. Wow did we spend...

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

The difference is stoke are willing to put there money were there mouth is, we are not.

They have an ownership that are far more invested in their club and their community than we do.  And they pay their taxes (biggest individual contributors to the public purse in this country I believe). 

Edited July 17 by lenred

[RedRoss]

35 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Just pay the money for Sinayoko, it’s why we are always mid table, we don’t push ourselves to that next level, it isn’t going to give us an FFP issue. 

You also said this about Twine too! It's not always about FFP, there is also a question of value for money. How do you know Sinayoko is worth £4 million?, Why do you think Twine is worth £4 million?

 

 

 

[Roger Red Hat]

7 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

The difference is stoke are willing to put there money were there mouth is, we are not.

It was stated that they have to sell before buying, which suggests to me that they can't just chuck money at his wages.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On the money point I wouldn't be altogether uncomfortable with us throwing £4-5m at the correct seasoned type striker to round things off if boxes ticked..correct profile etc- probably an Upper limit though fee wise.

[Simon bristol]

54 minutes ago, Lord Northski said:

I've travelled a bit, but nothing in Western Europe quite prepares you for just how horrible Stoke is. Why anyone would choose to live or work there is almost beyond comprehension. 

Its deprived, but there are some lovely villages around, and id much prefer a wander around trentham gardens or the wedgwood estate, with dinner at the fitzherbert arms than a walk around southmead and a pint at the bear and ruggedstaff.

[bcfc01]

8 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

The difference is stoke are willing to put there money were there mouth is, we are not.

Well, putting their money where their mouth is has certainly paid off...not.

Their last 6 seasons in the championship;

16th, 15th, 15th, 14th, 14th, 16th, and 17th last season after flirting with relegation.

As for Armstrong, both City and Stoke are reported to have met QPRs valuation so both are putting their money where their mouth is in that respect.

 

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Just pay the money for Sinayoko, it’s why we are always mid table, we don’t push ourselves to that next level, it isn’t going to give us an FFP issue. 

You've obviously seen a lot of Sinayoko to think he's worth paying whatever they want.

For those of us who haven't, can you tell us all about him?

[bcfc01]

7 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Its deprived, but there are some lovely villages around, and id much prefer a wander around trentham gardens or the wedgwood estate, with dinner at the fitzherbert arms than a walk around southmead and a pint at the bear and ruggedstaff.

Thats like comparing Burslem with a walk across the downs and over the suspension bridge.

 

[bexhill reds]

You'd like to think that our proven record of developing younger players and becoming a stepping stone to a Prem transfer would also be an attractive part of our package, even to offset any potential small to medium wage differences. I guess if the player is turned by cash now rather than how he could be coached and improved, then best he toddles off...

[Sleepy1968]

26 minutes ago, lenred said:

They have an ownership that are far more invested in their club and their community than we do.  And they pay their taxes (biggest individual contributors to the public purse in this country I believe). 

Bet365 make people poorer. I'm not having it that their existence is good for anything other than their shareholders.

They certainly don't generate wealth for the country.

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

You've obviously seen a lot of Sinayoko to think he's worth paying whatever they want.

For those of us who haven't, can you tell us all about him?

Plus who knows for certain he’s that keen to join?

Sylla & Kulenovic weren’t.

Some people think it is Football Manager..

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Bet365 make people poorer. I'm not having it that their existence is good for anything other than their shareholders.

They certainly don't generate wealth for the country.

Certainly an argument for that indeed.   But not for this thread imo. 

[cheddarwedlocker]

Not sure if its been reported elsewhere but Stoke are really pushing. Dont really know why tbh considering the striking options they have. 

No idea if our wage is the same/more/less competitive than theres. 

[BCFC31]

27 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Well, putting their money where their mouth is has certainly paid off...not.

Their last 6 seasons in the championship;

16th, 15th, 15th, 14th, 14th, 16th, and 17th last season after flirting with relegation.

As for Armstrong, both City and Stoke are reported to have met QPRs valuation so both are putting their money where their mouth is in that respect.

 

I'm talking about wages not fee.

[cheddarwedlocker]

21 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

You'd like to think that our proven record of developing younger players and becoming a stepping stone to a Prem transfer would also be an attractive part of our package, even to offset any potential small to medium wage differences. I guess if the player is turned by cash now rather than how he could be coached and improved, then best he toddles off...

Yeah exactly. Not sure entirely why a player like Armstrong who would want a 'breakout' year in the champ much like Semenyo in 21/22, would join a club who havent finished in the top half even though they have spent a stupid amount. FE they spent 23m euro last summer (transfermarkt) and were threatened by relegation for a long part of the year. Plus who tf wants to move to Stoke, when he probably living in some apartment in Richmond currently

[Roger Red Hat]

13 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I'm talking about wages not fee.

Also affected by FFP?

[cheddarwedlocker]

Tbh, on a personal perspective I would so rather we just used what we had at our disposal, which was SPH.

 

[bcfc01]

10 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I'm talking about wages not fee.

He only turned 21 last month and isn't a proven Championship player (yet), so his wages should be secondary to his career prospects. Do Stoke have a record of devloping young players and those players moving to the Premier League ? Do Bristol City have a reputation for doing just that with a list of players in recent seasons going on to play at the top level ?

If he/his agent have a brain between them, it should be an easy decision.

 

[cheddarwedlocker]

1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

He only turned 21 last month and isn't a proven Championship player (yet), so his wages should be secondary to his career prospects. Do Stoke have a record of devloping young players and those players moving to the Premier League ? Do Bristol City have a reputation for doing just that with a list of players in recent seasons going on to play at the top level ?

If he/his agent have a brain between them, it should be an easy decision.

 

Inc the comparisons in Depth, and the playstyles. 

Both similar systems, and both managers like to play a mix of a 3 and 4 ATB, with lone targetmen. Schumacher also used a front 2 of Whittaker and Hardie/Ennis during his time at Argyle. 

Stoke have 2 recognised strikers, one of which being Ennis who in all honesty, was shite for Blackburn and Stoke.

There is potential for him to break into their system faster then ours - especially if (yet unlikely) Conway is still here come Sep 1st.

Cornick is already seen as Surplus to Requirements, so that leaves us with (given TC leaves) Mayulu, Armstrong, Wells, Mehmeti, Sykes, Hirakawa, (twine), Stokes as attacking options, and potentially Knight in that 2 '10's. That will do me.

[Ska Junkie]

34 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Plus who knows for certain he’s that keen to join?

Sylla & Kulenovic weren’t.

Some people think it is Football Manager..

By the rules, we shouldn't have spoken to the player as we hadn't agreed a fee. I appreciate that's quite naive.

[Ska Junkie]

12 minutes ago, cheddarwedlocker said:

Tbh, on a personal perspective I would so rather we just used what we had at our disposal, which was SPH.

 

It does seem strange to pay decent money for a big raw forward when we've already got one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

He only turned 21 last month and isn't a proven Championship player (yet), so his wages should be secondary to his career prospects. Do Stoke have a record of devloping young players and those players moving to the Premier League ? Do Bristol City have a reputation for doing just that with a list of players in recent seasons going on to play at the top level ?

If he/his agent have a brain between them, it should be an easy decision.

 

Collins- £10m or so (Burnley, 2021)

Souttar- £15m or so (Leicester, 2023).

They can point to these and one of their fans claims (yeah I know) that a number of their foreign midfield signings they made last summer are worth multiple times.

We have the better track record and for longer but those 2..they can point to.

Bursik went to Europe too, a Belgian side in the CL iirc.

Edited July 17 by Mr Popodopolous

[Ashtongreight]

12 minutes ago, cheddarwedlocker said:

Tbh, on a personal perspective I would so rather we just used what we had at our disposal, which was SPH.

 

I was wondering the same, are some of these guys any better a prospect than SPH, I get it if we’d managed to get one of the guys from the top of our list as they are more championship ready, but we didn’t. We now appear to be at a similar level to SPH and prospects rather than ready to hit the ground running. 

[Ian M]

17 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

He only turned 21 last month and isn't a proven Championship player (yet), so his wages should be secondary to his career prospects. Do Stoke have a record of devloping young players and those players moving to the Premier League ? Do Bristol City have a reputation for doing just that with a list of players in recent seasons going on to play at the top level ?

If he/his agent have a brain between them, it should be an easy decision.

 

Plus from an international aspirations POV, coming here and playing with 3 other ROI internationals can only help. Eg guaranteed to play in front of scouts...

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

It does seem strange to pay decent money for a big raw forward when we've already got one.

Armstrong has played a lot more games at the level although still very raw with poor finishing.

Plus he is rapid and extremely strong, Semenyo/Akinbiyi is a lazy comparison.

SPH is different imo, his finishing looks very good in comparison to Armstrong and he holds up the ball well - different characteristics. 

I'd guess that SPH is more akin to Mayulu than Armstrong with Mayulu having more experience than SPH ?

 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

By the rules, we shouldn't have spoken to the player as we hadn't agreed a fee. I appreciate that's quite naive.

I think all we need is QPR’s permission, not necessarily agreed a fee.

[JoeAman08]

4 minutes ago, Ashtongreight said:

I was wondering the same, are some of these guys any better a prospect than SPH, I get it if we’d managed to get one of the guys from the top of our list as they are more championship ready, but we didn’t. We now appear to be at a similar level to SPH and prospects rather than ready to hit the ground running. 

Are we? Armstrong around 60 championship appearance correct? SPH has non league and 30 or so at L2 level. There is a big difference. 
 

Not saying SPH can’t be great. I really like what I have seen from him. However, throwing him in at this level now and it doesn’t work, it brings a level of scrutiny towards the club and player that is not ideal. A really strong 6-12 months in Scotland can really do wonders for him. More from a confidence standpoint imo.
 

However, an argument can be made about him staying here longer until we got one in. He could have impressed enough to be part of the side. I think it was a tough decision but they decided for SPH sake it would be good to settle in and maybe he can have an early impact there. I won’t berate the club for this decision. It wasn’t the same as loaning Vyner to a championship club after decent loan spells elsewhere at higher levels

[95red]

2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Did you even read the post that was being quoted?

No

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

How does that affect FFP?

I think Stoke are in a better position than they have been for a few seasons now. One thing we do know is that if their owners are able to spend money they'll spend it!!

[Steve Watts]

On 15/07/2024 at 19:36, Bristol Rob said:

Swap deal with Cornick might work for everyone.

£1m for Armstrong, or £1.2 plus Cornick....

On 15/07/2024 at 20:24, Winterstoke toad said:

I don’t wanna jump the gun and write him off before he’s even signed but if this is true it’s shocking recruitment. We need goals in the team and are looking at players who have scored 1 in 34 .

Did you think the same when we signed Wilbs......?

[Ivorguy]

It seems clear both City and Stoke have had bids of £2.5m accepted by QPR; it is now up to the player to decide Bristol or Stoke - no competition!

[Simon bristol]

5 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

It seems clear both City and Stoke have had bids of £2.5m accepted by QPR; it is now up to the player to decide Bristol or Stoke - no competition!

I just saw that figure quoted as well, thats a lot of money! By the time fally was signed for something similar, thats 5 mil on 2 forwards who havent proven themselves at this level!

[Jose]

8 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

It seems clear both City and Stoke have had bids of £2.5m accepted by QPR; it is now up to the player to decide Bristol or Stoke - no competition!

For that price more than happy to miss out on ANOTHER ONE

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Simon bristol said:

I just saw that figure quoted as well, thats a lot of money! By the time fally was signed for something similar, thats 5 mil on 2 forwards who havent proven themselves at this level!

I think a proven at this level or ready be it from Championship or of an age and experience level where he can play in the Championship decently striker may cost £4-5m and it seems we are unwilling to go to such levels.

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I just saw that figure quoted as well, thats a lot of money! By the time fally was signed for something similar, thats 5 mil on 2 forwards who havent proven themselves at this level!

No indication at all how that’s structured.

For instance it could be £1.5m up front, £500k after 50 games played, rest based on performance (goals scored, assists).

No one knows.

Mayulu deal was almost certainly structured similarly to above so it isn’t £5m in total yet (one of them hasn’t signed, for a start) & should it become so then the player would have proved himself.

[Cov 77]

20 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

It seems clear both City and Stoke have had bids of £2.5m accepted by QPR; it is now up to the player to decide Bristol or Stoke - no competition!

Not clear at all at 2.5 m  , nowhere near, Irish site bigging up the fee so Shamrock get big cut , might get near there if we win the Premier League

[BLRed]

If we’ve got 2.5mill for a striker and extra money for a 10, surely just buy Sinayoko for 4 mill and either loan twine or just rely on what we have for a 10

[Lew-T]

1 minute ago, BLRed said:

If we’ve got 2.5mill for a striker and extra money for a 10, surely just buy Sinayoko for 4 mill and either loan twine or just rely on what we have for a 10

It’s not always that simple.

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, BLRed said:

If we’ve got 2.5mill for a striker and extra money for a 10, surely just buy Sinayoko for 4 mill and either loan twine or just rely on what we have for a 10

Loans.

Aren’t.

Free.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Some clubs appear to get hefty discounts or mates rates for improved terms or first refusal (think Reading and maybe Stoke with Wolves, but yes Loans aren't some cheap cure- can be very pricy.

Edited July 17 by Mr Popodopolous

[Ashtongreight]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Are we? Armstrong around 60 championship appearance correct? SPH has non league and 30 or so at L2 level. There is a big difference. 
 

Not saying SPH can’t be great. I really like what I have seen from him. However, throwing him in at this level now and it doesn’t work, it brings a level of scrutiny towards the club and player that is not ideal. A really strong 6-12 months in Scotland can really do wonders for him. More from a confidence standpoint imo.
 

However, an argument can be made about him staying here longer until we got one in. He could have impressed enough to be part of the side. I think it was a tough decision but they decided for SPH sake it would be good to settle in and maybe he can have an early impact there. I won’t berate the club for this decision. It wasn’t the same as loaning Vyner to a championship club after decent loan spells elsewhere at higher levels

I wasn’t berating them, just wondering if they’d missed a trick, or at least loaned him before knowing who we’d get in. I take your point about thinking it’s best for SPH though. 

[Ashtongreight]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Loans.

Aren’t.

Free.

Not a fan in general. I take the NP view on them.

[Redshorts]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Loans.

Aren’t.

Free.

They are not but you could look at a loan to buy option with say a 1 million loan agreement with a realistic price agreed for next summer. This will free up some cash as we won't be spending full amount on Twine. 

 

[Sleepy1968]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Loans.

Aren’t.

Free.

Nice t-shirt slogan. Stick an image of Louis Dioy & Dire Mebude on there.

A bit downmarket maybe, but a great addition to the new Onyego Autumn 24 range.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Ashtongreight said:

Not a fan in general. I take the NP view on them.

Until.

Semenyo.

Went.

We.

Could.

Not.

Afford.

Loan.

Fees.

Etc.

Edited July 17 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Masked Man]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

It seems clear both City and Stoke have had bids of £2.5m accepted by QPR; it is now up to the player to decide Bristol or Stoke - no competition!

Surely the best way to get him to sign for Bristol is to drive him around Stoke!!

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

It seems clear both City and Stoke have had bids of £2.5m accepted by QPR; it is now up to the player to decide Bristol or Stoke - no competition!

Yep, Jon Walters wins.

[JoeAman08]

2 minutes ago, Ashtongreight said:

I wasn’t berating them, just wondering if they’d missed a trick, or at least loaned him before knowing who we’d get in. I take your point about thinking it’s best for SPH though. 

No I didn’t mean it to sound like you were. I’m just saying myself personally have disagreed in the past about some loans but this one I don’t think is that. Sorry for the confusion. 
 

I think it’s a good loan for him. I’m not sure the pathway will be blocked when he is back either. I’m sure there will be opportunities with 2 new strikers here this window. 3 is not too full as I am sure there will be games and scenarios where we play 2 or even all 3 together

[Merrick's Marvels]

15 minutes ago, Ashtongreight said:

Not a fan in general. I take the NP view on them.

Pearson was not against loans, per se.

In his opinion, they weren't right for City at the time. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Pearson was not against loans, per se.

In his opinion, they weren't right for City at the time. 

Plus I very much doubt we could've done much in the loan market in our financial position at that time.

Low end targets aside and they're unlikely to improve us.

[fly in the air]

has there been anything from the club that we have put in a bid of 2.5 million for this lad. or is it paper talk.

[Ashtongreight]

Just now, fly in the air said:

has there been anything from the club that we have put in a bid of 2.5 million for this lad. or is it paper talk.

Unlikely they’d say anything even if they have. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

14 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

has there been anything from the club that we have put in a bid of 2.5 million for this lad. or is it paper talk.

It wouldn't be a surprise if the paper in question had an inside line to Stoke's sporting director. So I think we can take this as pretty solid info. 

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, Redshorts said:

They are not but you could look at a loan to buy option with say a 1 million loan agreement with a realistic price agreed for next summer. This will free up some cash as we won't be spending full amount on Twine. 

 

Do we want this player or not?

If we do, stop pissing around with thoughts of loan deals.  We can structure a permanent deal in much the same terms as a loan.  It’s all bollox really, I think the club know it’s getting hard to agree a fee (at this stage of the summer) so are putting out a deflection / stalling-for-time message of “it might have to be loan”.

We’ve lost control of the deal really.  We’ve allowed it to drag on.  We also run the risk of other clubs coming in for him too.

Frankly, I’m amazed we haven’t moved on, especially when Tinnion said the “alternatives are cheaper”.

(Noelle of the above aimed at you, just my frustrations with the situation, which look amateur at best)

26 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

has there been anything from the club that we have put in a bid of 2.5 million for this lad. or is it paper talk.

@1960maaan said he’d heard it was more than £2m…but we don’t know if it is something like £1.5m fee and £1m in various add-ons, or £2.5m fee with add-ons on-top.  My gut feel is it’s more the first scenario.

[Glen hump]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Do we want this player or not?

If we do, stop pissing around with thoughts of loan deals.  We can structure a permanent deal in much the same terms as a loan.  It’s all bollox really, I think the club know it’s getting hard to agree a fee (at this stage of the summer) so are putting out a deflection / stalling-for-time message of “it might have to be loan”.

We’ve lost control of the deal really.  We’ve allowed it to drag on.  We also run the risk of other clubs coming in for him too.

Frankly, I’m amazed we haven’t moved on, especially when Tinnion said the “alternatives are cheaper”.

(Noelle of the above aimed at you, just my frustrations with the situation, which look amateur at best)

@1960maaan said he’d heard it was more than £2m…but we don’t know if it is something like £1.5m fee and £1m in various add-ons, or £2.5m fee with add-ons on-top.  My gut feel is it’s more the first scenario.

Spot on as usual’ if we want him we just pay the money’ we’re coming across slightly amateurish.

[fly in the air]

I agree nothing appears straight forward with city. 

[Redrascal2]

Fears of how Tinnion would handle this window appear to be well founded. We do the hard yards in identifying the player and then hang around until another club comes in for him.

[Glen hump]

3 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

I agree nothing appears straight forward with city. 

Because we’re run by unqualified people.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

Spot on as usual’ if we want him we just pay the money’ we’re coming across slightly amateurish.

We basically go in with “final offer”.  They either accept or decline.  Accept, great, do the deal.  Decline, walk away.

Our final offer might be derisory, it might be sensible, it might be a bit OTT, but it’s our offer, our final offer.  Take it or leave it.

[Cityboy1954]

3 minutes ago, fly in the air said:

I agree nothing appears straight forward with city. 

Why would we talk about signings till its a,done thing  usually clubs move in and gey deals done probably end upwith another cornick .

[Cityboy1954]

1 minute ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Why would we talk about signings till its a,done thing  usually clubs move in and gey deals done probably end up with another cornick .

 

[ExiledAjax]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Frankly, I’m amazed we haven’t moved on, especially when Tinnion said the “alternatives are cheaper”.

Perhaps there's a senior member of staff who really, really likes the player and really, really wants him here?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Perhaps there's a senior member of staff who really, really likes the player and really, really wants him here?

Perhaps there’s an even more senior, senior member of staff (probably not staff actually!!!) saying “here’s your budget”!

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Perhaps there's a senior member of staff who really, really likes the player and really, really wants him here?

Yep but with 3 and a bit weeks to go before Hull, there must come a time when we realise that we need to move on or come to accept we’re paying the asking price, presumably?

[slartibartfast]

Be lucky to get SETH Armstrong at this rate !

[Roger Red Hat]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I think Stoke are in a better position than they have been for a few seasons now. One thing we do know is that if their owners are able to spend money they'll spend it!!

Are they? It was stated that they have to sell before they buy.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Roger Red Hat said:

Are they? It was stated that they have to sell before they buy.

Their position is unclear.

Witcoop was the one who said it, their fans in the replies were scoffing at it- in theory they've improved, in practice I've put a few scenarios on the main FFP thread.

Either is possible basically.

[ExiledAjax]

13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Yep but with 3 and a bit weeks to go before Hull, there must come a time when we realise that we need to move on or come to accept we’re paying the asking price, presumably?

Absolutely.

[stokes7]

It’s actually becoming a joke all that planning for the summer crap in January when they wrote off the season and it seems they never did there homework on players properly, and as for twine just move on or pay the money