Come on, England

[Will Rollason]

46 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Quansah is sat at home eating a takeaway with his parents mate

yep, solid display,  went for the boneless banquet, never in trouble

[Will Rollason]

32 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Lots of selection headaches for Wednesday. In defence, Guehi is back available and Shaw now has match minutes. But Konsa did very well today and Saka played MotM at LWB (granted he was moved around later in the game). 

Serious case could be made for Foden out, Palmer in to the attack. And Toney and Watkins will know Kane is not looking himself.

I think when fans and pundits start picking their semi-final XI’s we’ll see a lot of different ideas.

 

Still, the focus tonight is on celebrating a win, on bloody penalties no less!

saka played right side for nearly the whole game mate

[joe jordans teeth]

25 minutes ago, Jose said:

There lies the problem. The outcome clouds peoples judgements. I feel if you can be negative after a win as well as a loss is quite healthy rather than being blinded by luck or a bit of brilliance. 

100%,you can’t be not impressed by the penalties because I had everyone missing but let’s be brutal we are shite just as the French are so dispite my prediction of us and Spain in the final I feel I may be wrong and the viva France may meet us 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Just now, joe jordans teeth said:

100%,you can’t be not impressed by the penalties because I had everyone missing but let’s be brutal we are shite just as the French are so dispite my prediction of us and Spain in the final I feel I may be wrong and the viva France may meet us 

On the evidence so far it could be dullest final ever. Worse even than the European Cup final between Barcelona and Dour Bucharest. 

I wonder what the French press and fans have made of their performances so far. Are they as critical as us? 

[joe jordans teeth]

2 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

On the evidence so far it could be dullest final ever. Worse even than the European Cup final between Barcelona and Dour Bucharest. 

I wonder what the French press and fans have made of their performances so far. Are they as critical as us? 

Who cares what the game is like,it’s the name on the trophy that matters ,they are saying the exact same as us as in bloody awful but finding a way 

Edited July 6 by joe jordans teeth

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, The Batman said:

Said it on a different topic. The only score that matters is what's printed in tomorrow's paper. 

When Switzerland scored I thought to myself "I don't recall their defence struggling with anything". Every time we got behind or put a cross in, they calmly dealt with it, being in the right position and playing it out or calmly heading it away. Unless I missed something. 

Onwards and upwards. Win is a win 

Besides the goal I don’t remember us struggling with anything either.

Once again the better team has won, albeit not playing particularly well (but better than previous games).

lets face it we should have had a corner, not them getting a free kick just before their goal too from what I could see.

Anyway, great way to win it on pens. Atmosphere was amazing after that and great celebrations.

do it all again on Wednesday!

Only sour note for me was at least 2 lots of fighting in the stands, and one altercation with the Dutch walking into the ground. We definitely had a few more idiots with us for this game.

[MarcusX]

52 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Find it fascinating, whenever we are successful it's because other teams aren't very good yet whenever we lose it's because we are rubbish.

Reality is, Southgate is statistically the 3rd best manager in the countries history and has a very good chance to lead us to his second major final, something nobody else has done. Are we playing well? Nope. But we are scraping out wins and finding a way, something that for decades we have struggled to do.

Switzerland came into this one off the back of wins against Italy and Germany, yet we got past them. Would I keep him after the Euros if we don't win it? Probably not, but he's done a better job as England manager than anyone in my life time, certainly

Absolutely agree.

Before the Serbia game it was “don’t take them for granted, won’t be easy” afyerwards it was “should have been 3-0”.

Itll go down on record as an “easy” route, forgetting that Switzerland have beat Italy, whereas if we’d played Italy it would arguably look tougher.

After the France game last night all the talk was about “finding a way”. We’re in a semi final, I don’t really care how we got there, this is the most successful period of England football in my life time.

 

[Northern Red]

 

[The Coach]

Kane has to be dropped for the next game. Been an absolute letdown this tournament. Needs a strong hard look in the mirror.

So so pleased for Saka and his penalty conversion.

[TonyTonyTony]

6 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Kane has to be dropped for the next game. Been an absolute letdown this tournament. Needs a strong hard look in the mirror.

So so pleased for Saka and his penalty conversion.

Zero chance Kane is dropped for a Euros semi final. 

[The Masked Man]

Southgate wasn't a good club manager. He's been blessed with some extremely talented players. Let's not forget England were favourites going into this tournament. We shouldn't let the past mask the fact that this squad should be challenging for the trophy. That we've scraped our way into the semi-final is nothing to be proud of. We should have the beating of the Dutch and if we're playing Sunday Southgate will have achieved the minimum he should have done with the tools at his disposal. 

[Malago]

56 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Who cares what the game is like,it’s the name on the trophy that matters ,they are saying the exact same as us as in bloody awful but finding a way 

Exactly.  It’s forgotten we won ugly in 66 with Alf’s wingless wonders.  
 

 

[Malago]

BTW a very poor show from OTIB today.  Swiss and Toney and all the usual suspects let the opportunity pass them by.

[Robbored]

52 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Kane has to be dropped for the next game. Been an absolute letdown this tournament. Needs a strong hard look in the mirror.

So so pleased for Saka and his penalty conversion.

He’s been playing too deep Coach and when England win possession there’s no forward passing option hence the side to side back to Pickford, dreary play that bores everyone………….

Toney is an ideal foil for occupying central defenders and role that Kane can do perfectly well but he’s not playing where he should play.

[Ecko]

Just a reminder for anyone wanting Scotland to do something:

https://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/g47-qf-england-1-1-switzerland-5-4-on-pens-06-jul--t141964-s220.html

Tossers!

Edited July 6 by Ecko

[Southport Red]

21 minutes ago, Ecko said:

Just a reminder for anyone wanting Scotland to do something:

https://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/g47-qf-england-1-1-switzerland-5-4-on-pens-06-jul--t141964-s220.html

Tossers!

Wow, they ARE bitter aren’t they?

How can they get so annoyed when their team isn’t involved?  That entire thread is just full of hatred. Sad thing is, 99% of England fans don’t think about Scotland at all. 

[Ecko]

12 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Wow, they ARE bitter aren’t they?

How can they get so annoyed when their team isn’t involved?  That entire thread is just full of hatred. Sad thing is, 99% of England fans don’t think about Scotland at all. 

Yep, exactly. Some on here were sympathising with them when they got battered against Germany. Couldn't believe what I was reading.

 

[pillred]

31 minutes ago, Ecko said:

Just a reminder for anyone wanting Scotland to do something:

https://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/g47-qf-england-1-1-switzerland-5-4-on-pens-06-jul--t141964-s220.html

Tossers!

Well, funny you should point that out, I was in the Duke earlier tonight and when it got to the penalty shootout and we were all biting our nails it got to the last penalty and I stood up hoping to celebrate and said to the bloke who was also standing "one more and we're through to the next round" his reply was "I'm hoping he misses" me "why?" him, because "I'm Scottish" that tells you all you need to know.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, The Masked Man said:

Southgate wasn't a good club manager. He's been blessed with some extremely talented players. Let's not forget England were favourites going into this tournament. We shouldn't let the past mask the fact that this squad should be challenging for the trophy. That we've scraped our way into the semi-final is nothing to be proud of. We should have the beating of the Dutch and if we're playing Sunday Southgate will have achieved the minimum he should have done with the tools at his disposal. 

Were we favourites?

As in outright. 

Can we cite sources- I had us down as one of the top few contenders but outright favourites- from objective sources.

Not sure how well e.g. English bookies and media fit the bill. A bigger sample size is necessary.

Edited July 7 by Mr Popodopolous

[Lew-T]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

The French don’t have the quality in attack or midfield. Their team is very ordinary. Keep Mbappé quiet and they don’t look like scoring. 

My word you didn’t post a lame joke. You feeling okay?

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, The Masked Man said:

Southgate wasn't a good club manager. He's been blessed with some extremely talented players. Let's not forget England were favourites going into this tournament. We shouldn't let the past mask the fact that this squad should be challenging for the trophy. That we've scraped our way into the semi-final is nothing to be proud of. We should have the beating of the Dutch and if we're playing Sunday Southgate will have achieved the minimum he should have done with the tools at his disposal. 

Our bookmakers made us favourites. That’s to do with money and risk, nothing to do with our actual chances.

In some ways yes we have very talented players, but we’ve had injuries in key areas that have affected the balance - and in some positions we still lack proper quality and/or experience.

Absolutely disagree that being in a semi final isn’t something to be proud of, it’s not a given and some big teams are already out, as happens at every major tournament. 

[luke_bristol]

8 hours ago, Ecko said:

Just a reminder for anyone wanting Scotland to do something:

https://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/g47-qf-england-1-1-switzerland-5-4-on-pens-06-jul--t141964-s220.html

Tossers!

Are Celtic the Scottish team that had to write to their fans and remind them to wash because there had been complaints from others fans that some of them stink?

8 hours ago, Ecko said:

Just a reminder for anyone wanting Scotland to do something:

https://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/g47-qf-england-1-1-switzerland-5-4-on-pens-06-jul--t141964-s220.html

Tossers!

Are Celtic the Scottish team that had to write to their fans and remind them to wash because there had been complaints from others fans that some of them stink?

[LondonBristolian]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Were we favourites?

As in outright. 

Can we cite sources- I had us down as one of the top few contenders but outright favourites- from objective sources.

Not sure how well e.g. English bookies and media fit the bill. A bigger sample size is necessary.

I’m not sure any source is objective but we went into it with the Premier League player of the season, La Liga player of the season and the European Golden Boot holder.

it is possible France were fancied slightly more than us but all the other major countries went into the tournament slightly out of sorts or with question marks around them. It definitely wasn’t just English media hype.

[LondonBristolian]

10 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Find it fascinating, whenever we are successful it's because other teams aren't very good yet whenever we lose it's because we are rubbish.

Reality is, Southgate is statistically the 3rd best manager in the countries history and has a very good chance to lead us to his second major final, something nobody else has done. Are we playing well? Nope. But we are scraping out wins and finding a way, something that for decades we have struggled to do.

Switzerland came into this one off the back of wins against Italy and Germany, yet we got past them. Would I keep him after the Euros if we don't win it? Probably not, but he's done a better job as England manager than anyone in my life time, certainly

Absolutely this. I think this tournament has shown things are a little stale and we need a change but Southgate has now got us to (at least) one final, two semi finals and a quarter final in four tournaments. It is an outstanding record and one semi final and final came with teams that were far from the best in the tournament.

I think there is a valid question/criticism as to whether Southgate has been able to adapt from setting up a team as underdogs to setting up a team with genuinely top talent and I don’t think he is the right manager to get the best out of the players England now has but he has an impressive record and I don’t think he gets anywhere near enough credit for that.

[The Coach]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Absolutely this. I think this tournament has shown things are a little stale and we need a change but Southgate has now got us to (at least) one final, two semi finals and a quarter final in four tournaments. It is an outstanding record and one semi final and final came with teams that were far from the best in the tournament.

I think there is a valid question/criticism as to whether Southgate has been able to adapt from setting up a team as underdogs to setting up a team with genuinely top talent and I don’t think he is the right manager to get the best out of the players England now has but he has an impressive record and I don’t think he gets anywhere near enough credit for that.

Regardless of the outcome of this tournament he should go. Anything now is a bonus and we’ve reached the very least of where we expect to be. 
 

He has become stale and he’s been saved by a very good squad who can pull out some special moments from nowhere. I think he can walk away now with his head held high and not under scrutiny.

[redkev]

What has surprised me at this tournament is the improvement / organisation of the so called lesser teams ( apart from Scotland ) 

The thing that has really held England back in my opinion is the massive lack of balance dont our left hand side which has had a knock on effect to a lot of what we do , surely even an out of form chillwell or Mitchell from palace would of been better than trippier playing there ( not knocking trippier done his best ) shaw has to start on Wednesday even if it’s for only 60 mins and try and get a foothold in the game , also Cole Palmer must be close to getting a start for who I ain’t gotta clue , 

[cidercity1987]

3 minutes ago, redkev said:

What has surprised me at this tournament is the improvement / organisation of the so called lesser teams ( apart from Scotland ) 

The thing that has really held England back in my opinion is the massive lack of balance dont our left hand side which has had a knock on effect to a lot of what we do , surely even an out of form chillwell or Mitchell from palace would of been better than trippier playing there ( not knocking trippier done his best ) shaw has to start on Wednesday even if it’s for only 60 mins and try and get a foothold in the game , also Cole Palmer must be close to getting a start for who I ain’t gotta clue , 

Palmer for Kane, let's go peak Spain 2012

It's not as if Kane is doing anything other than drifting into midfield anyway

[JBFC II]

20 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Regardless of the outcome of this tournament he should go. Anything now is a bonus and we’ve reached the very least of where we expect to be. 
 

He has become stale and he’s been saved by a very good squad who can pull out some special moments from nowhere. I think he can walk away now with his head held high and not under scrutiny.

If we win the Euros and Southgate is sacked that would quite possibly be the weirdest decision the FA has ever made.

If he wins this tournament he has a good claim to being Englands greatest ever manager (although, that is a big ‘if’ even at this stage)

[Bristol Oil Services]

54 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I’m not sure any source is objective but we went into it with the Premier League player of the season, La Liga player of the season and the European Golden Boot holder.

 

.... yeah, but: sans Kalvin Phillips, remember 

[JAWS]

We've won one game out of 5 in normal time. All against lesser opposition. Switzerland probably the highest ranking at 19th. On paper the outcome looks impressive but when you break it down....

He needs to win something 

[JAWS]

Reminds me a bit of LJ. Persistently start with a poor line up (better options on the bench) then make subs when either blatantly obviously he'd got it wrong & we went behind & then if we won take the plaudits but never put his hands up to admit he got it wrong. 

On paper we should beat Switzerland. Maybe one or two might get in our squad. We drew & won on pens. Hardly anything to brag about but obviously saying we're in the semis sounds much more impressive. After scraping by Denmark! 

Just now, JAWS said:

Reminds me a bit of LJ. Persistently start with a poor line up (better options on the bench) then make subs when either blatantly obviously he'd got it wrong & we went behind & then if we won take the plaudits but never put his hands up to admit he got it wrong. 

On paper we should beat Switzerland. Maybe one or two might get in our squad. We drew & won on pens. Hardly anything to brag about but obviously saying we're in the semis sounds much more impressive. After scraping by Denmark! 

Sorry Slovakia 

[Alessandro]

Southgate - he’s transformed the culture and made us tough to beat. We’re one of those teams, from the outside, that are probably a bit envied - “they find a way” and we have star dust sprinkled in the squad. His record in major tournaments speaks for itself - after decades of England teams choking, we’re building the character you need to win big.

However - you cannot deny 2 things:

1) Southgate’s style has meant he has never really got the best out of an array of attacking talent. Which is tough to watch on a game to game basis.
 

2) Our routes to these knock out stages have been favourable - we’ve only got 1 ‘big team’ win under our belt, vs a rebuilding, underperforming, Germany at Wembley. Vs France, Italy and Croatia, we came up short.

The next game, or 2, will define Southgate’s era for me. 

Beat Netherland’s and another big team and we can all say Southgate was building to this point….

Lose and he will be remembered for lots of good foundation work, but ultimately an underachievement and missed opportunities in terms of results when it really, really mattered against the big boys we could be beating. 

[RedRock]

The two key questions to determine the quality of any football manager are ‘is/he she getting the best out of the individual players and have they created a team that is better than the sum of its parts’. 
 

With Southgate, for me, it’s ‘no’ and ‘no’. 

[JAWS]

Imagine what Sir Bobby or El Tel would've done with this squad over the last 3 tournaments 

[REDOXO]

Anyone notice Heaton celebrating with the team after the last penalty?

[BigTone]

8 minutes ago, JAWS said:

Imagine what Sir Bobby or El Tel would've done with this squad over the last 3 tournaments 

 

[And Its Smith]

8 minutes ago, JAWS said:

Imagine what Sir Bobby or El Tel would've done with this squad over the last 3 tournaments 

You can imagine but it would probably be biased. They could have gone more attacking and been picked off. Nobody knows 

[DaveInSA]

This Guardian article sums it all up for me :

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/06/disintegrating-england-put-on-best-show-yet-by-bringing-the-vibes?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
 

A perfect synopsis of Gary Southgate.

[JAWS]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

You can imagine but it would probably be biased. They could have gone more attacking and been picked off. Nobody knows 

We would've been entertained. Gone out to win rather than not to lose. Can understand the latter philosophy when you have limited talent ie.utilising what you have to best effect. Our talent is wasted

[TV Tom]

16 minutes ago, JAWS said:

Imagine what Sir Bobby or El Tel would've done with this squad over the last 3 tournaments 

They probably wouldn't have had the luck of the draw and would of been knocked out by France in the last 16 

[And Its Smith]

11 minutes ago, JAWS said:

We would've been entertained. Gone out to win rather than not to lose. Can understand the latter philosophy when you have limited talent ie.utilising what you have to best effect. Our talent is wasted

Would you rather be entertained and lose or win boringly if you had the choice ?

[JAWS]

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Would you rather be entertained and lose or win boringly if you had the choice ?

I'd rather see the talent utilised. I think you're forgetting who we've played. And struggled against! So Gareth's negative approach not exactly been plain sailing. And it's not just the negativity. Playing players out of their natural position. 

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Absolutely disagree that being in a semi final isn’t something to be proud of, it’s not a given and some big teams are already out, as happens at every major tournament. 

1 hour ago, The Coach said:

Regardless of the outcome of this tournament he should go. Anything now is a bonus and we’ve reached the very least of where we expect to be. 

I think we are something like a 4th-8th best team, regardless of what our FiFA world ranking says.  We should get to the quarters, possibly semi, but sometimes it depends on who you meet en-route.

Spain, Germany and France are the best three imho, then we are in a bunch behind.  No right to be favourites, and even in that bunch of teams behind we aren’t much better than the batch behind, hence why games against the likes of Switzerland and Denmark were very tough too.

+++++

I thought we played a little bit better yesterday.

I didn’t understand the half-time plaudits for Foden from the pundits.  Pre-game I said the WBs playing high and side-CBs being comfortable in side positions was key.  And for 50-55 mins that was the case.  Maybe it was half time, but once the Swiss pushed their WBs on (the LWB sub helped), we got dragged deep…and it started to feel a bit similar to the previous games.  Kane then drops in and we can’t get out.  He has to stay high, no deeper than the centre circle, he has to gamble if they don’t keep someone back.

We have to learn from that.

With the ball and in good structure, I thought we moved it quite well…a bit too slow in the last 30 mins, but I think we tired as the Swiss improved.

+++++

So, ultimately we have reached another semi.  The much maligned GS proving (?) he can progress us in tournaments.

The questions remain - could a better head-coach make this bunch of individuals be a better team.

[Jose]

11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Would you rather be entertained and lose or win boringly if you had the choice ?

Off course in a tournament winning is the most important thing. Southgate has shown when push comes to shove he isn’t a winner though. 
 

One win in five against the teams we have played is pretty poor whichever way you dress it up. 
 

Waiting to fall behind before making any changes will catch us with us eventually. Serious questions need to be asked why no changes were made when the game was drifting away from us. 

Edited July 7 by Jose

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Jose said:

Off course in a tournament winning is the most important thing. Southgate has shown when push comes to shove he isn’t a winner though. 
 

One win in five against the teams we have played is pretty poor whichever way you dress it up. 
 

Waiting to fall behind before making any changes will catch us with us eventually. Serious questions need to be asked why no changes were made when the game was drifting away from us. 

Tournament footie to some extent is about making sure you don’t get 1L.

[TV Tom]

12 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Would you rather be entertained and lose or win boringly if you had the choice ?

I'll answer that if we win the final in the meantime we have been stinking the place out

[JAWS]

Just now, Jose said:

Off course in a tournament winning is the most important thing. Southgate has shown when push comes to shove he isn’t a winner though. 
 

One win in five against the teams we have played is prey poor whichever way you dress it up. 
 

Waiting to fall behind before making any changes will catch us with us eventually. Serious questions need to be asked why no changes were made when the game was drifting away from us. 

Spot on. We are where we are more by luck than judgement. Luck of the draw & lucky we have such talented players to get him out of jail. But he has sailed extremely close to the wind!

[Jose]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Tournament footie to some extent is about making sure you don’t get 1L.

You’re not wrong. However he’s shown he’s got one in him when it matters. Let’s be honest he’s been bailed out by two bits of brilliance. Nothing to do with him and his changes. Or lack off…..

[MarcusX]

6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Would you rather be entertained and lose or win boringly if you had the choice ?

Win, 100%. And I think many look back at Euro 96 with rose tinted specs. Struggled against the Swiss, Scotland could have gone either way with their penalty miss, penalties to beat a poor Spain team.

[JAWS]

Not only must he be running out of luck but also surely those zip up sweaters

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

I'll answer that if we win the final in the meantime we have been stinking the place out

In fairness though, France haven’t scored in open play and have been as dull as we have and the Netherlands were third in their group and scraped through with two scrappy goals. Spain are the only team who have been playing well and winning.

Edited July 7 by LondonBristolian

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Win, 100%. And I think many look back at Euro 96 with rose tinted specs. Struggled against the Swiss, Scotland could have gone either way with their penalty miss, penalties to beat a poor Spain team.

100% agree

If we attacked more and lost 4-3 would people be happy?  I think not. They’d be more annoyed than they are now.  One semi final team has played well and three haven’t played very well but have been solid.  Everyone else is eliminated wishing they were in the semis.  
 

Football is about moments of joy not 90 minutes of blissful football.  Some brilliant moments in this tournament for England.  

Edited July 7 by And Its Smith

[Swede]

It was a better performance overall but his failure in selecting a fit left back continues to undermine his reliance on certain players no matter what their form is. Therefore you get a very disjointed possession based game of chess. He's very safety first and there's a feeling for me that he's holding this group of talented individuals back. Its his job to mould them all together into a team and I think its now beyond him. He fits the FA profile so he's pretty safe.

Its fine margins but we have stuttered to a semi final on the weaker side of the draw, great.

[JAWS]

If we had lost the shoot out yesterday would people have said its been a good tournament? Think not

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, JAWS said:

If we had lost the shoot out yesterday would people have said its been a good tournament? Think not

But we didn’t

[Cowshed]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think we are something like a 4th-8th best team, regardless of what our FiFA world ranking says.  We should get to the quarters, possibly semi, but sometimes it depends on who you meet en-route.

Spain, Germany and France are the best three imho, then we are in a bunch behind.  No right to be favourites, and even in that bunch of teams behind we aren’t much better than the batch behind, hence why games against the likes of Switzerland and Denmark were very tough too.

+++++

I thought we played a little bit better yesterday.

I didn’t understand the half-time plaudits for Foden from the pundits.  Pre-game I said the WBs playing high and side-CBs being comfortable in side positions was key.  And for 50-55 mins that was the case.  Maybe it was half time, but once the Swiss pushed their WBs on (the LWB sub helped), we got dragged deep…and it started to feel a bit similar to the previous games.  Kane then drops in and we can’t get out.  He has to stay high, no deeper than the centre circle, he has to gamble if they don’t keep someone back.

We have to learn from that.

With the ball and in good structure, I thought we moved it quite well…a bit too slow in the last 30 mins, but I think we tired as the Swiss improved.

+++++

So, ultimately we have reached another semi.  The much maligned GS proving (?) he can progress us in tournaments.

The questions remain - could a better head-coach make this bunch of individuals be a better team.

England played marginally better for a period. A bit like a room, one half of the room is organised and structured (the defence) and one part of the room has clothes and stuff thrown all over it (the attack).

By the end of the game and in extra time there were clothes all over the room, and whatever it was Gareth Southgate was attempting to do was lost and as he threw the cupboard on the pitch looking for his magic pants.

England had no system in extra time. 

[RedRock]

58 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

This Guardian article sums it all up for me :

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/06/disintegrating-england-put-on-best-show-yet-by-bringing-the-vibes?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
 

A perfect synopsis of Gary Southgate.

That’s brilliant.

Southgate's meticulous ‘bore them into submission’ planning fails, goes into total panic mode with a few minutes left delivering random chaos which digs us out of a hole just by chance. Awesome management. 

Soon to become part of the FA Training Manual (2024 revised edition).

[TV Tom]

31 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

In fairness though, France haven’t scored in open play and have been as dull as we have and the Netherlands were third in their group and scraped through with two scrappy goals. Spain are the only team who have been playing well and winning.

Ok, Spain instead then, it was said slightly tongue in cheek  

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Jose said:

You’re not wrong. However he’s shown he’s got one in him when it matters. Let’s be honest he’s been bailed out by two bits of brilliance. Nothing to do with him and his changes. Or lack off…..

16 minutes ago, JAWS said:

If we had lost the shoot out yesterday would people have said its been a good tournament? Think not

I think overall this feels like a tournament too far for him…in the way we’ve played and the way GS selected his squad, which kinda affects each other.  I’m not suggesting it’s been a good tournament though, just we’ve (again) got to the stage we kinda ought to have.  The question remains (again) can we go further.

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

England played marginally better for a period. A bit like a room, one half of the room is organised and structured (the defence) and one part of the room has clothes and stuff thrown all over it (the attack).

By the end of the game and in extra time there were clothes all over the room, and whatever it was Gareth Southgate was attempting to do was lost and as he threw the cupboard on the pitch looking for his magic pants.

England had no system in extra time. 

Both teams ceded possession in extra time if the other team gained controlled possession.  Then waited in their low blocks to regain the ball and do the same back.  Both teams PPDA got lower as the game went on, tiredness a part of that, but possibly a fear of “going for it” too.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, RedRock said:

That’s brilliant.

Southgate's meticulous ‘bore them into submission’ planning fails, goes into total panic mode with a few minutes left delivering random chaos which digs us out of a hole just by chance. Awesome management. 

Soon to become part of the FA Training Manual (2024 revised edition).

The stupid thing for me yesterday was that period of 20 mins from about 55 mins to their goal, we could all see the Swiss getting more and more on top, England getting deeper and deeper, England looking more and more tired with no spark.  The Swiss made the proactive subs alongside some tactical tweaks to get their WBs up the pitch.  GS did nothing…until they scored.

Instead of needing a “wonder goal” from Saka to bring us level, why not make our changes early, and then Saka’s  goal might’ve been giving us the lead.

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think overall this feels like a tournament too far for him…in the way we’ve played and the way GS selected his squad, which kinda affects each other.  I’m not suggesting it’s been a good tournament though, just we’ve (again) got to the stage we kinda ought to have.  The question remains (again) can we go further.

Both teams ceded possession in extra time if the other team gained controlled possession.  Then waited in their low blocks to regain the ball and do the same back.  Both teams PPDA got lower as the game went on, tiredness a part of that, but possibly a fear of “going for it” too.

If England were waiting in a low block that would indicate organised structure. England didn't have an organised structure. England had lots of top talented individuals on a pitch together playing a non system/shape this team has never played in a competitive match.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

If England were waiting in a low block that would indicate organised structure. England didn't have an organised structure. England had lots of top talented individuals on a pitch together playing a non system/shape this team has never played in a competitive match.  

The switch to the back 3 to start again after so long without was..different.

Some of them had played the shape at prior tournaments but as a whole definitely not for this squad. What Dave said, tournament too far I reckon.

[The Bard]

46 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Win, 100%. And I think many look back at Euro 96 with rose tinted specs. Struggled against the Swiss, Scotland could have gone either way with their penalty miss, penalties to beat a poor Spain team.

I went to that Spain game in 1996.  They were not a poor team. They had a lot of top notch players such as Guardiola and Hierro.  Had 2 goals disallowed for offside that would've stood with VAR. We were very very lucky.

I was also at the Holland game 4 days earlier.  That was class.  Thing about euro 96 is it was basically England reasserting ourselves as a half decent team. We'd been a disaster at the euros in 92 and not qualified for USA 94.    Hosting the tournament and doing well.  There was virtually no trouble at the tournament.  It felt like the Country was emerging out of the darkness at the time. 

[JAWS]

36 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

But we didn’t

Haha, the convenient truth

[The Bard]

Love reading the opinions of all the ex international coaches on here who can clearly see how you manage and coach a side at a major championships.  Obviously getting to the semi finals is in spite of the coach not because of him.  We'd be much better with a new man.

The reality is that when he leaves, we will dip down to where we were unless they have hidden a good manager somewhere in the FA system that we haven't heard of. 

 

[Cowshed]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The switch to the back 3 to start again after so long without was..different.

Some of them had played the shape at prior tournaments but as a whole definitely not for this squad. What Dave said, tournament too far I reckon.

England have never played that shape in competitive match.  In extra time its a back three and ? Whose holding midfield? Rice wasn't. Mainoo was off. Rice was left side, Shaw was left side, so was Eze, so was Palmer, and right side Saka, Arnold and Toney. There was no normal England shape to it. 

Edited July 7 by Cowshed

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

England have never played that shape in competitive match.  In extra time its a back three and ? Whose holding midfield? Rice wasn't. Mainoo was off. Rice was left side, Shaw was left side, so was Eze, so was Palmer, and right side Saka, Arnold and Toney. There was no normal England shape to it. 

Did we not as a starting point play 3 at the back in 2018 and the last Euros?

Yes when you put it like that, the structure in extra time was not there. Lopsided, top heavy in wider areas.

[Wanderingred]

As England and Bristol City fans, we must be some of the most success starved sports fans. All I want is to celebrate winning something, and if we do it in a similar shithouse way to Portugal in 2016 then so be it. I’ve seen nothing to fear from either France or the Netherlands, even playing like we have been. Spain could be a different proposition though.

Edited July 7 by Wanderingred

[Cowshed]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Did we not as a starting point play 3 at the back in 2018 and the last Euros?

Yes when you put it like that, the structure in extra time was not there. Lopsided, top heavy in wider areas.

England have played with a back three. England have never played with that, as in that post Swiss goal in front of the back three. The team has never played with that lopsided shape before. Post Swiss goal Mr Southgate chucked the system out and England played with a shape that was not rehearsed, and planned.  

[Davefevs]

51 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

If England were waiting in a low block that would indicate organised structure. England didn't have an organised structure. England had lots of top talented individuals on a pitch together playing a non system/shape this team has never played in a competitive match.  

Just because they hadn’t played it before doesn’t make un-organised…it’s just not drilled.  

Bellingham dropped in when Mainoo went off.