Come on, England

[W-S-M Seagull]

54 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

In a way, it is a shame that great goal last night saved us from a terrible performance rather than being a spectacular winner in a good display. I was so fed up and down by then I didn't really feel we deserved it.

It was a metaphor for escaping through a hole in the bath at half time.

It's not often in football that you get what you deserve. 

How many games have we all watched where the better team hasn't won? Sometimes that does include us. Gotta take the rough with the smooth. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

We lose I think the knifes might be out..

Southgate gives me the impression that he has never heard of a Swiss army knife. If only his parents would have given him one for Xmas once. 

[Jose]

Jude normally talks so well but their attitude of us against the world is not the way to go. Why can’t they just accept they’ve been shit and have Gordon’s attitude. That attitude from Gordon probably won’t get him a minute as he isn’t towing the party line. 

[The chief]

Yeah we’ve been poor but that’s football sometimes. Games abouts moments . A 95th minute overhead kick in a knockout game is something indescribable really. personally I loved it when that went in. 

We’ve been awful In games but yesterday have found a way. Taking the positives and probs going out for the quarter - lord knows why. . Time to get behind the team really . 

Shirley Southgate will make changes this time? Get trips out of there and palmer for foden . Maybe even a change of formation .

its not surprising players are getting an us against the world vibe. Incessant moaning and negativity towards u would probably do that . 

[Open End Numb Legs]

Here's my thoughts the morning after.

1. Pass and move - terrible. We were pass and stand still. How on earth do they think we can get from box to box doing that? It was like subuteo.

2. To create space at this level we do need someone, at the right time, to run with the ball, carry it into space, commit a defender so they are pulled out of shape.

3. We have the players to do the above, we see them every week.

4. Don't try to play risk free football.

5. Have a plan to play on the break. I know Georgia lost but were very effective at times.

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, RedRock said:

Just woke up.

Did I dream we had a free kick just inside their half and some pillock passed it sideways to their forward and he nearly chipped Pickford, who’d seemingly abandoned his goalkeeping duties to admire the advanced positioning of some of his mates in the England team?

Yes, we won. Frankly, be embarrassed if we win the Tournament playing Southgate’s brand of anti-football. 

My greatest fear is with Manning we’ve appointed a manager from a similar ‘FA coaching manual’ background to Southgate. Football is about energy, craft, passion, excitement and harnessing those attributes to achieve positive outcomes. Southgate’s teams are devoid of any artistry or emotion. Just dull, dull, dull robotic movements with possession the king. Woeful. 
 

There is no FA coaching manual. There are FA technical guides that outline philosophies for youth development. Youth development that helped to produce the scorer of the wonderful equaliser last night, or Foden, or Palmer etc. 

What the head coach decides to do with these players is up to him and from McClaren, Cappello. Hodgson to Southgate those in charge of the national XI are clearly doing their things v following guidance from all encompassing FA direction. 

What we see is Mr Southgates doing. 

 

[And Its Smith]

20 minutes ago, Super said:

He knows more about football than the likes of me and you. 

Like playing David James up front?!

[Dr_Castro]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

No need to mix football and politics. 

I think you'll find that they are inextricably linked. See the excellent works of Mr David Goldblatt of this parish.

[northsomersetred]

 

[Rob k]

3 minutes ago, northsomersetred said:

 

Wonder how many texts he’s received off his mates

[Robbored]

12 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Thick as **** northerners no surprise 

Have you never left a match early?………….

[Cowshed]

10 minutes ago, Dr_Castro said:

I think you'll find that they are inextricably linked. See the excellent works of Mr David Goldblatt of this parish.

He not of our parish. Gas. And an extremist. He thinks Ashton Gate should be carbon zero and made of wood, and Mr Lansdown should redistribute all his wealth.

The ball is round was ok. 

[LondonBristolian]

I’m trying to work out what my line up for Saturday would be, especially without Guehi and neither Dunk nor Konsa convincing in friendlies.

I think Trippier absolutely cannot start left back and, if Shaw is not fit, feel we have to start Saka there, even if it is misusing one of England’s best players. 
 

I might be inclined to go three at the back:

GK Pickford

RCB Stones 

CB Konsa

LCB Gomez

RWB Alexander-Arnold

CM Rice

CM Mainoo

LWB Saka

AM Bellingham 

ST Kane

ST Toney

 

I don’t love that as a line-up but it might give us more clarity and structure.

 

[Mr Hankey]

18 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I’m trying to work out what my line up for Saturday would be, especially without Guehi and neither Dunk nor Konsa convincing in friendlies.

I think Trippier absolutely cannot start left back and, if Shaw is not fit, feel we have to start Saka there, even if it is misusing one of England’s best players. 
 

I might be inclined to go three at the back:

GK Pickford

RCB Stones 

CB Konsa

LCB Gomez

RWB Alexander-Arnold

CM Rice

CM Mainoo

LWB Saka

AM Bellingham 

ST Kane

ST Toney

 

I don’t love that as a line-up but it might give us more clarity and structure.

 

I would go with the same, but with Konsa at LCB & have Walker in at RCB with Stones in the middle - Gomez is the one player i do not trust in the slightest, mental that he was even called up after 10 or so decent games for Liverpool whilst the likes of Chilwell & MItchell weren't considered. I would love to chuck Shaw in there, but he just isn't going to be fit. Trippier & Foden both have to come out.

[And Its Smith]

22 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I’m trying to work out what my line up for Saturday would be, especially without Guehi and neither Dunk nor Konsa convincing in friendlies.

I think Trippier absolutely cannot start left back and, if Shaw is not fit, feel we have to start Saka there, even if it is misusing one of England’s best players. 
 

I might be inclined to go three at the back:

GK Pickford

RCB Stones 

CB Konsa

LCB Gomez

RWB Alexander-Arnold

CM Rice

CM Mainoo

LWB Saka

AM Bellingham 

ST Kane

ST Toney

 

I don’t love that as a line-up but it might give us more clarity and structure.

 

For me it picks itself really

               Pickford

Trent.  Stones. Konsa. Shaw

           Mainoo. Rice

  Palmer.  Bellingham. Gordon 

                  Kane 

[exAtyeoMax]

2 hours ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

In a way, it is a shame that great goal last night saved us from a terrible performance rather than being a spectacular winner in a good display. I was so fed up and down by then I didn't really feel we deserved it.

It was a metaphor for escaping through a hole in the bath at half time.

I was just glad that we weren't going home. However the media/England twitter try to spin it, it is clear to see by everyone that the performance was horrendous. I think most people can see the difference the subs made. The question is why did GS leave it so bloody late?

[LondonBristolian]

8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

For me it picks itself really

               Pickford

Trent.  Stones. Konsa. Shaw

           Mainoo. Rice

  Palmer.  Bellingham. Gordon 

                  Kane 

Is Shaw going to be fit though?

[BobBobBobbin]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

Jude normally talks so well but their attitude of us against the world is not the way to go. Why can’t they just accept they’ve been shit and have Gordon’s attitude. That attitude from Gordon probably won’t get him a minute as he isn’t towing the party line. 

hard disagree. Jude and the players are well within their rights to think the criticism is OTT. After a period of togetherness we've reverted back to "build them up and tear them down" and it's sad. 

If the players feel they need a siege mentality to help them that's fine, they're not exactly getting unbridled or enthusiastic support. Gotta do what you gotta do 

 

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

I would go with the same, but with Konsa at LCB & have Walker in at RCB with Stones in the middle - Gomez is the one player i do not trust in the slightest, mental that he was even called up after 10 or so decent games for Liverpool whilst the likes of Chilwell & MItchell weren't considered. I would love to chuck Shaw in there, but he just isn't going to be fit. Trippier & Foden both have to come out.

Totally agree on Trippier and Foden and I think it ridiculous that Gomez and Dunk were picked ahead of Mitchell and Braithwaite.

I really struggled with who I would put in the back three as I’m not really convinced by any of our CB options after Stones and Guehi. I left Walker out as he isn’t having a good tournament and picked Gomez due to lack of options but it was a 50-50 call.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, northsomersetred said:

 

Oh dear going viral for putting some coke up your nose is not a good look. 

[Miah Dennehy]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

It's not often in football that you get what you deserve. 

How many games have we all watched where the better team hasn't won? Sometimes that does include us. Gotta take the rough with the smooth. 

Exactly. I had a fairly robust debate with a couple of fellow Rovers fans last night. I reminded them of the 1987 New Year derby. Absolutely battered & outclassed by City for  89 minutes, the Garry Smart scored a worldie. None of us were complaining then about just how shite we had been.

England topped their group and have now won the first KO game, there is no better outcome than that.

[Jose]

26 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

hard disagree. Jude and the players are well within their rights to think the criticism is OTT. After a period of togetherness we've reverted back to "build them up and tear them down" and it's sad. 

If the players feel they need a siege mentality to help them that's fine, they're not exactly getting unbridled or enthusiastic support. Gotta do what you gotta do 

 

People are not going OTT though. They are calling it for what it is. And it’s been shit. They’ve gone ultra defensive ( not just on the pitch) and looks childish. Hold your hands up like Gordon and look how much praise he got. 

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

It's a tough one with Southgate. On paper he has done well. A final, a semi two quarters. However when reading between the lines I do believe he has been more lucky than good. 

Take this year's draw, all the hard teams (on paper) we avoid. It wad the sane in every tournament so far. A lot of the games we negative and could be argued like last night, we had a lot of luck. Now Iuck is a huge part of football but Southgate lives of it. 

He decision making is woeful, he didn't get us that win last night we were lucky. Not making a sub until the end (bringing on Palmer was not by choice) should be sackable on its own. 

For me the Italy game were he played for pens when we were clearly the netter team was the straw that broke the camels back. Yes he got us to a final and then proceeded to choke.

 

A lot of his games have sliding door moments just like last night.  He is a lucky manager, nothing more

Napoleon famously said " I'd rather have lucky generals than good ones"

[DaveInSA]

It’s just so dull and boring and predictable. I cheered the Slovakia goal because I expected a “response”. Which we got, more of the same.

Keeping the ball is rubbish in an end unto itself. If you move it at walking pace across the field and then backwards, with zero movement. It’s dull to watch, easy to defend and completely ineffective. It’s an abomination of football.

We don’t look like scoring.

And the defence is not good enough either. 

I’m just disappointed that I’m going to have to waste another 2 hours of my life on this borefest, when apparently we have the best players in a generation. I’ve been here before. We did have those players. And they also were rubbish when it counted.

 

[BobBobBobbin]

I'd still like to see Wharton play; Good as Mainoo has been he's just another player wanting to occupy the same spaces and Bellingham, Kane & Foden

Formation kinda irrelevant, it's all about the roles.

GK: Pickford

LB: Shaw or Saka 

CB: Konsa

CB: Stones

RB: Alexander-Arnold

PIVOT: Wharton

CM: Rice

CM: Mainoo

10: Jude

10: Foden/Palmer

CF: Kane

 

Key is the instructions and player roles though. You'd need your two CM's to cover the wider areas and help support the fullbacks OOP, you'd want a 10 to drop in to the 8 when in a post press block shape. 

Manoeuvring the fullbacks into crossing positions is the first principle. But when playing central you'd like to see Foden and Jude go beyond Kane. Let him link up play, it's his best attribute despite the goals. Rice and Mainoo = energetic midfield press and mobility to cover wider areas, Wharton = someone to pick the ball up in deep positions and break lines with forward passes. 

 

Obviously never gonna happen, but I'd love to see us play with a bit more fluidity.

[Loco Rojo]

29 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

hard disagree. Jude and the players are well within their rights to think the criticism is OTT. After a period of togetherness we've reverted back to "build them up and tear them down" and it's sad. 

If the players feel they need a siege mentality to help them that's fine, they're not exactly getting unbridled or enthusiastic support. Gotta do what you gotta do 

 

Whilst I agree to a point - for example, the Social Media/AI stuff has gone way too far (but SM has always been a cesspit of scummy comments and only gets worse. Just stay off it - simple).

People are right to be constructively critical because all of the performances (individuals and as a team) so far have been well below the standard of what people know the players are capable of. We're not talking just the odd game or time during a game - it's been all of the games.

So i dont think it's a case of building them up and tearing them down withput the context of why people are being critical. If we continue to play the slow, negative (pass backwards/sideways) style of play then there is plenty of justification to be critical. Fans will get behind the team when they play well as evident but the crowd after we scored.

People know they have the ability and skill to do better. People want the team to be successful, but all of the last 4 games have been very poor and frustration has grown.  The lucky win last night doesn't absolve that.

[exAtyeoMax]

50 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

hard disagree. Jude and the players are well within their rights to think the criticism is OTT. After a period of togetherness we've reverted back to "build them up and tear them down" and it's sad. 

If the players feel they need a siege mentality to help them that's fine, they're not exactly getting unbridled or enthusiastic support. Gotta do what you gotta do 

 

I don't think that's true. Any hype is due to the media/England social media, they are building them up, the fans are just being honest/seeing through that. 

[BobBobBobbin]

16 minutes ago, Jose said:

People are not going OTT though. They are calling it for what it is. And it’s been shit. They’ve gone ultra defensive ( not just on the pitch) and looks childish. Hold your hands up like Gordon and look how much praise he got. 

They are imo, because the level of critique is so basic and illiterate in general. It's just dogs abuse from people looking to vent. Jude was called shit for 90 minutes yesterday and yet he was in great positions for pretty much the entirety of the game and when he did get it, he looked dangerous, took people on and progressed us up the pitch. 

Thinking Jude was poor yesterday is a litmus test for football understanding... 

[BigTone]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Southgate gives me the impression that he has never heard of a Swiss army knife. If only his parents would have given him one for Xmas once. 

The corkscrew would be handy

[exAtyeoMax]

24 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

They are imo, because the level of critique is so basic and illiterate in general. It's just dogs abuse from people looking to vent. Jude was called shit for 90 minutes yesterday and yet he was in great positions for pretty much the entirety of the game and when he did get it, he looked dangerous, took people on and progressed us up the pitch. 

Thinking Jude was poor yesterday is a litmus test for football understanding... 

So? That's reacting in the moment. People were genuinely pissed off with the performance. The media have bigged Bellingham up and for whatever reason he hadn't lived up to that during most of the game.