Come on, England

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Seriously. Conor Gallagher. So basically the same tactics, no control of the midfield.

It's more of a square peg albeit still feels too risk averse.

A more natural CM may help.

[ExiledAjax]

22 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

A shellacking tomorrow is about it I would guess and that’s only if results in the next two lots of group matches go against us. Remote.

That's what I thought. 

[TonyTonyTony]

Connor Gallagher. Jesus

[MelksRed]

35 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

A shellacking tomorrow is about it I would guess and that’s only if results in the next two lots of group matches go against us. Remote.

Agree...we would however have a better run if we won our group....we would avoid Germany, Spain and Italy until the final. That said, nothing is an easy route....all teams want to win it. 

[Super]

Gallagher is a surprise really because he's on a yellow card. 

[Markthehorn]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

A shellacking tomorrow is about it I would guess and that’s only if results in the next two lots of group matches go against us. Remote.

We’d still probably be a best 3rd place team on 4 points at worse.

 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

“If”!!!

Is it the players alone that seek out the opening goal, starting brightly, go 1-0 up then say, eff it, let’s play Gareth’s way now we are one-up?

I find it hard to believe that the lacklustre performances we’ve seen are down to the players alone. It looks to me that they’ve been coached/directed not to play attacking football hence the sideways and back passes that have pissed off the England fans. 

I’m sure that if England had a more proactive manager who gave the team encouragement to play their own game we’d see far more entertaining football. Southgate was a CB with a defensive mindset and that defensive caution has followed him int management.

[robin_unreliant]

1 hour ago, The Coach said:

Yup. Read only change apparently is Trent for Gallagher.

 

Exactly what I predicted after the Denmark game. This would be typical Southgate if he does it.

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I find it hard to believe that the lacklustre performances we’ve seen are down to the players alone. It looks to me that they’ve been coached/directed not to play attacking football hence the sideways and back passes that have pissed off the England fans. 

I’m sure that if England had a more proactive manager who gave the team encouragement to play their own game we’d see far more entertaining football. Southgate was a CB with a defensive mindset and that defensive caution has followed him int management.

who’s said is down to the players alone?

if they’ve been coached to not play attacking football, how have we gone 1-0 up early in both games?

the players have said they aren’t coached to play defensively, they’ve admitted that game-state plays a part mentally.

What is “their own game”, Foden playing Man City’s way, Kane playing Bayern Munich’s, Trent playing Liverpool’s etc?

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

who’s said is down to the players alone?

if they’ve been coached to not play attacking football, how have we gone 1-0 up early in both games?

the players have said they aren’t coached to play defensively, they’ve admitted that game-state plays a part mentally.

What is “their own game”, Foden playing Man City’s way, Kane playing Bayern Munich’s, Trent playing Liverpool’s etc?

Their “own game” is based on their natural game where a huge part is instinct combined with their natural footballing skills. 
Instinct is knowing where/when to pass as well as the right time, right place particularly for strikers. These guys are top professionals and know how to create space but they’re not doing it and that begs the question - why aren’t they?

Its either with them freezing on the big games (very unlikely) or down to Southgate.

[steviestevieneville]

4 hours ago, Super said:

Evening Standard going with this

England predicted XI (4-3-3): Pickford; Walker, Stones, Guehi, Gomez; Gallagher, Rice, Bellingham; Saka, Kane, Gordon.

Gallagher isn’t international standard imo. It’s too big a step up for him . He’s been exposed every game , especially against Brazil . He charges around like a headless chicken . I really don’t understand Southgate’s thinking . 

[The Coach]

After the frustration of the Denmark game. I have no interest watching the last game tomorrow. I’ll have to stick to LiveScore and commentary on here.

[MarcusX]

Oooh an England thread, thank you! I’ve struggled for data out here so by time I’ve been able to reply there’s been another 10 pages in the Euro thread and the discussion has moved on

15 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Some people think we have a God-given right to win the Euros or the World Cup. 
We are certainly better than our performances suggest, but that’s based upon talented individuals rather than a good team. 
Seriously are we better than Spain, Portugal, Germany or Italy?
How many Iceland - or Denmark- players would get into an England side? Very few - yet Iceland beat us and Denmark forced a draw. 
If we really DO have world-beating players, but consistently fail to win anything, then maybe the management and coaching structure needs to be changed?

No one, absolutely no one I’ve ever spoken to thinks we have a “god given right” it’s one of the most common criticisms of England fans and yet it’s the most ridiculous. Many think we’ve got a squad capable of performing better than we are, and guess what many non-English believe this too! I’ve regularly been asked this week why we don’t perform, many other countries love our players and can’t understand it.

ill get onto my view on Southgate though below…

 

9 hours ago, SecretSam said:

England are probably a couple of changes away from clicking: TAA out, someone other than Foden at LM.

Personally, I'd push Rice further forward and drop someone in as DMF; I'd leave Bellingham at 10. That does mean no Foden, however. But look how other teams are playing - it was interesting to watch something on YT where they pointed out the talent left on France's bench, for example. 

Oh, and I'd have Mitchell at LB...oh 

I think there’s more to it than just personnel. Bellingham was way off the energy Thursday, as were a few of them. We don’t have a proper DMF like a Jorginho or a Rodri for example and Rice has been struggling to pick up the ball off the back line which in turn means they’ve had no confidence in playing out and pickfords been forced long. Add to that, little movement in front of Rice and it’s a recipe for disaster on the ball. I don’t know what’s changed since the WC but we’ve got no confidence on the ball. I wonder if Maguire is part of this, he was always good at taking the ball from Pickford and bringing it forward and likes to beat a press.

9 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

That’s a bit petty of Harry. Is he above criticism? Makes him sound like a dick. 
Very defensive

I don’t mind it, he’s got a good point (although he should know it comes with the territory by now)

I would say it’s showing something we’ve never seen under Southgate. There’s some serious cracks in the confidence. Walker talked about not knowing when to press and worried about going forward and getting caught out, Trippier said similar about the press and so has Kane I believe. Rice is talking about fans wanting Trent and then criticising him. And we’ve had the team boo’s off the pitch, for the first time since the Rooney days?

I hope they can find a bit of a siege mentality this week and rally round and get their heads back in it.

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The bit I worry about is people saying that Wharton should come in to allow Rice to play as an 8 like he has under Arteta.  Wharton isn’t a defensive screen, a sitter, a base of midfield player.  Southgate didn’t pick one, did he?

What I do expect is that if TAA was the “experiment”, that Southgate has the non-experiment, the default, to revert to.  My problem is I have no idea what that looks like.

Agreed, but Wharton might have more confidence picking the ball up off the defence. They’d have to both play as deep midfielders though, but that might help to take pressure off rice receiving the ball.

4 hours ago, petehinton said:

If Gallagher & Konsa are the only changes and the formation stays the same, I’m a very big Southgate advocate but it’d be very hard to defend him tbh. 

I’d agree, rumour has it it’s only Gallagher. I’ll hold judgement til I see how we play because it’s not just the players it’s the style. If we go back to the high pressing nature of the friendlies then Gallagher probably does that better than Trent. All of those front players, even Kane CAN do it.

If we see another deep block, no pressure on the opposition and lazy in possession then it’s probably over for Southgate and we’re not going much further than last 16 IMO.

[Digga69]

I think the team is overrated. The players have a high calibre teammate from foreign lands to carry them. 

[Davefevs]

Good post @MarcusX

[Maltshoveller]

3 hours ago, Super said:

Gallagher is a surprise really because he's on a yellow card. 

As i have said before 

England's answer to Robbie Savage

Run Forrest run A card waiting to happen

[SecretSam]

14 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Gallagher isn’t international standard imo. It’s too big a step up for him . He’s been exposed every game , especially against Brazil . He charges around like a headless chicken . I really don’t understand Southgate’s thinking . 

I agree, I don't get the hype around Gallagher. But England need energy in the MF, to allow Rice and Bellingham to push up. I get @MarcusX's point about Bellingham being lethargic vs Denmark, but he carried England against Serbia, it's a bit much to ask him to do it again a few days later.

I'd view the highlighted changes to the squad as positive, within the caveats that it's the wrong squad makeup. I agree that we may be missing Maguire's ability to carry the ball out, it's odd that Stones doesn't do this.

[mozo]

16 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

If we are already through by KO time, which I expect us to be, I think England might give them a right doing. Just a hunch. That group needs something positive, badly.

I think we will win it comfortably in the end. Maybe a 3-0?

The squad needs the boost big time  and hopefully it turns the tide.

Just really hope Southgate is more diverse with his substitutions. Get a 2-0 lead and FFS give Palmer minutes. 

[Ian M]

It's fairly amusing to me that "omg, why is Southgate picking Maguire when he can't even get in the team at United?!" has been replaced with "we miss Maguire"
 

Also as per @SecretSam I find it wild that we seem to be missing Maguire's ability to bring the ball out but Stones isn't taking on this responsibility when he'd be comfortable doing it for Manchester.

[mozo]

Just now, Ian M said:

It's fairly amusing to me that "omg, why is Southgate picking Maguire when he can't even get in the team at United?!" has been replaced with "we miss Maguire"
 

Also as per @SecretSam I find it wild that we seem to be missing Maguire's ability to bring the ball out but Stones isn't taking on this responsibility when he'd be comfortable doing it for Manchester.

I for one definitely do not miss Maguire, just for the record! 

[Ian M]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

I for one definitely do not miss Maguire, just for the record! 

Personally I think we are better defensively without him but pose less goal threat. Not exactly why you pick a CB

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, Ian M said:

It's fairly amusing to me that "omg, why is Southgate picking Maguire when he can't even get in the team at United?!" has been replaced with "we miss Maguire"
 

Also as per @SecretSam I find it wild that we seem to be missing Maguire's ability to bring the ball out but Stones isn't taking on this responsibility when he'd be comfortable doing it for Manchester.

Who has said we miss Maguire?

[Ian M]

8 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Who has said we miss Maguire?

People. I didn't make a note of their names at the time of reading as I didn't realise there would be a quiz later

[Super]

Am i right in thinking if we finish 2nd we play Germany?

[Ian M]

14 minutes ago, Super said:

Am i right in thinking if we finish 2nd we play Germany?

Yes. And should we get through that, likely Spain in the Quarters

Much nicer to win the group. And hope Netherlands remain ahead of France.

[pillred]

16 hours ago, The Coach said:

After the frustration of the Denmark game. I have no interest watching the last game tomorrow. I’ll have to stick to LiveScore and commentary on here.

So there is no chance that in the next game it's completely different? Just because a team is playing badly doesn't automatically mean that it will carry on being like that, we could suddenly click play brilliantly and you will have missed out.

Edited June 25 by pillred

[Jose]

 Rice has just said the performance in the first game was good. The lot of them are deluded. How hard is it to say we haven’t played well but we will improve instead of just talking absolute shit. 

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Ian M said:

Personally I think we are better defensively without him but pose less goal threat. Not exactly why you pick a CB

I can't tolerate him constantly swiping his fringe to the side. So irritating. Dropped!

[Cowshed]

21 hours ago, Spike said:

I'll be honest, I don't want our players to be relaxed. I think if you're going into one of the highest levels of football and representing your country you should be sharp, confident and driven, not evert relaxed. Look at Ronaldo, I don't think the man has ever relaxed, evacuated on his holidays he trains twice a day at his age, that's why he's still playing and Rooney looks like a kids party balloon. 

I don't want a relaxed England team, I want a hungry, aggressive, determined team with players who are driven and want to play their absolute best football and leave it all on the table. I'd rather see us go out attaching the opposition than playing this "safe" football we've played for so long. I miss the Gascoigne days when we had a player who didn't care what others thought and just wanted to go out and play, now it all feels so sterile. 

Sharp driven and confident is relaxed. 

Tense = Not relaxed. England have looked stressed and anxious. A team that is full of tension (England) will not perform at their best. 

Remedy the team needs to relax. Players need to focus on their abilities and tasks and what they are good at. 

  

[Ian M]

22 minutes ago, Jose said:

 Rice has just said the performance in the first game was good. The lot of them are deluded. How hard is it to say we haven’t played well but we will improve instead of just talking absolute shit. 

If he’d said the first 45mins of the Serbia game I could have got on board, but from then onwards we’ve been pretty dire.

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

I can't tolerate him constantly swiping his fringe to the side. So irritating. Dropped!

So if he got a crew cut you’d possibly consider his inclusion?