Come on, England

[RollsRoyce]

It was a game devoid of real intent from England, witnessed by the flat atmosphere in the bars and pubs. The best side won.

Southgate has done well, very well compared to the past, and should be proud of what he has achieved. But it is time to move on. We were showing some tactical weaknesses and never really managed to harness the talent we have, or create a playing structure that created more of a threat and intent. We were bored. 

The real issue is, who next? We have a few English options currently managing, or recently managed in the Prem. Howe, Dyche, O'Neil, Potter, Moyes, Edwards (semi Welsh) or take , like Southgate , someone without a particularly good league management career?

[TV Tom]

4 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

...........and yet if the same is suggested of "our Liam" you fly right off the handle. Let's be fair, some of what Liam produced last season (before he realised that fans singing "we're ******* shit" and "we've got the ball, we've lost the ball" meant EVERYBODY bar yourself was getting the right hump and decided to modify his approach) makes Southgate's football look champagne. 

Haha, what a joker

[marmite]

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I do tend to agree with the rest of your post but you think this is a bit far?

Evolution not Revolution perhaps..hard to argue with the overall record but do we not need to find a way to fully incorporate players such as TAA, Palmer, Watkins- then Mainoo, Eze, Toney and perhaps Wharton and we hope Scott in the fullness of time in. Build on a really solid base without losing what is good so far.

Maybe revamp was too strong a word. But we need to be more on the front foot forward thinking model. The players you name are well capable of being more positive thinking, indeed the introduction of some of them made us look a different side altogether. The "possession " game plan has had its day. Let's get back to seeing how many we can score as opposed to not conceding.  I just want a bit more entertainment.  We look so sterile in our approach to games. If it doesn't work, so what. We're winning naff all anyway!

[Mr Popodopolous]

27 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

 

I find it irritating because she's masking over a point that annoys me.

That Spanish team was well organised, coached and didn't have as many star players as England.  Their overall tactical prowess trying to overload Luke Shaw on the left by occasionally deploying Williams and Yamal down the right was clever and came from the coaching staff.  They used the quality they had to maximum effect while having cohesive team behind that flare. 

We on the other hand had better players but were deployed in a format that was neither familiar to the players nor natural it was a tactical blunder fest.  Everything about that team selection down the left was a shambles, the way Kane was utilised was stupid and out of his comfort zone.  We need to be brutally honest we're squandering out talent by trying to play in a way that's unfamiliar.  

I've actually lost patience with Southgate.  Articles like that are not helpful, but a cold hard analysis of how Southgate & Steve Holland have isolated some players, made a squad selection that's left us with one arm tied behind our back for the most part.  It frustrated from the initial squad selection that didn't include a fit left back and having to utilise Tripper down the left.  Experimental formations in the group stages while other teams were gaining practice and momentum.  It's all ******* amateurishly shit and he needs to go.

I sort of agree and Southgate has run his course all told IMO. Messing about in the Group Stage isn't good either.

Better than Spain? Idk. I had them with the potential to overload Shaw as it turned out (I assumed Trippier may start but anyway) but Bellingham and Foden with the potential to go 2 v 1 vs Olmo leaving a straight Rice and Mainoo vs Ruiz and Rodri duel.

What was surprising to me was just how much of the ball Spain had. Possession certainly isn't everything but..it can tire a side out physically and mentally if chasing.

Even if Rodri and Ruiz are superior to Mainoo and Rice and they are I believe, the ability of Foden and Bellingham to both come inside can overload, help to buy some time- get them chasing for periods.

Edited July 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

In some ways though it felt like a good opportunity as..

*This half of the draw.

*Holland came into the tournament with no De Jong or Koopmeiners- I'd argue one if not 2 regular midfield starters, both injured pre tournament.

*Spain I forgot, had Pedri missing and Rodri went off at HT. I forgot about Gavi but he got injured last year having checked.

Us relatively injury free, there is a window there, will it still be as open in 2026?

In some ways yes we can still grow. Otoh WC in North America, whole Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Uruguay will all be back with possible big local fanbases too as big Latin American community, Spain will only grow from here, Germany may have bottomed out...will France be as poor again or have they had their day.

The heat and humidity in North America too?

Edited July 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Hankey]

35 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

It was a game devoid of real intent from England, witnessed by the flat atmosphere in the bars and pubs. The best side won.

Southgate has done well, very well compared to the past, and should be proud of what he has achieved. But it is time to move on. We were showing some tactical weaknesses and never really managed to harness the talent we have, or create a playing structure that created more of a threat and intent. We were bored. 

The real issue is, who next? We have a few English options currently managing, or recently managed in the Prem. Howe, Dyche, O'Neil, Potter, Moyes, Edwards (semi Welsh) or take , like Southgate , someone without a particularly good league management career?

Dyche!?!? Give me Fat Sam over that bloke. Only had to see Pickford launching the ball as high and far away as possible all tournament to see how much the Everton style has rubbed off on him, completely different to the short passes he played in the 2018 World Cup and last Euro's! Even yesterday after whacking it all the way down to the Spanish keeper for the 50th time he looked at the bench & shrugged his shoulders as if to say "what else am i meant to be doing?" after it appeared he was getting a bollocking from someone on the bench over it.

[Bris Red]

45 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

It was a game devoid of real intent from England, witnessed by the flat atmosphere in the bars and pubs. The best side won.

Southgate has done well, very well compared to the past, and should be proud of what he has achieved. But it is time to move on. We were showing some tactical weaknesses and never really managed to harness the talent we have, or create a playing structure that created more of a threat and intent. We were bored. 

The real issue is, who next? We have a few English options currently managing, or recently managed in the Prem. Howe, Dyche, O'Neil, Potter, Moyes, Edwards (semi Welsh) or take , like Southgate , someone without a particularly good league management career?

Howe is the only standout English candidate for me, he seems like a good fit, tactically streets ahead of Southgate and appears to have the sort of personality that would fit in at the FA..

[Markthehorn]

5 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Howe is the only standout English candidate for me, he seems like a good fit, tactically streets ahead of Southgate and appears to have the sort of personality that would fit in at the FA..

And seems very good at improving players it seems which could bode well for our talented play coming through.

[Erithacus]

When Baddiel and Skinner sang about thirty years of hurt, that was in 1996. When (if) we go to the next World Cup it will be thirty years of singing that same old song. Total of sixty now.

I have gone through the England records for major international championships and this is the list:

Year	Comp	Venue	Manager		Eliminated
1950	WC	Brazil	Winterbottom		Group Stage
1954	WC	Switzerland	“		Q-Fs
1958	WC	Sweden	“		Group Stage
1960	Euro	Did not enter	“		----------
1962	WC	Chile	“		Q-Fs
1964	Euro	Spain	W’bottom/Ramsey		DNQ
1966	WC	England	Ramsey		Winners!
1968	Euro	Italy	“		3rd place
1970	WC	Mexico	“		Q-Fs
1972	Euro	Belgium	“		DNQ
1974	WC	Germany	“		DNQ
1976	Euro	Yugoslavia	Revie		DNQ
1978	WC	Argentina	“		DNQ
1980	Euro	Italy	Greenwood		Group Stage
1982	WC	Spain	“		2nd Groups
1984	Euro	France	Robson		DNQ
1986	WC	Mexico	“		Q-Fs
1988	Euro	Germany	“		Group Stage
1990	WC	Italy	“		4th place
1992	Euro	Sweden	Taylor		Group Stage
1994	WC	USA	“		DNQ
1996	Euro	England	Venables		S-Fs
1998	WC	France	Hoddle		Rd 16
2000	Euro	France/Belgium	Keegan		Group Stage
2002	WC	S Korea/Japan	Eriksson		Q-Fs
2004	Euro	Portugal	“		Q-Fs
2006	WC	Germany	“		Q-Fs
2008	Euro	Austria/Switzerland	McClaren		DNQ
2010	WC	S Africa	Capello		Rd 16
2012	Euro	Poland/Ukraine	Hodgson		Q-Fs
2014	WC	Brazil	“		Group Stage
2016	Euro	France	“		Rd 16
2018	WC	Russia	Southgate		4th place
2020	Euro	Europe	“		Runners up
2022	WC	Qatar	“		Q-Fs
2024	Euro	Germany	“		Runners up

 

Doesn't that bring back some memories!

You can read what you like into that list. The question is whether you judge the manager purely on results or on their ability to raise a squad's talent and performances. If it's the latter, you also need to assess the quality of the opposition too. With young Lions like Bellingham and Mainoo emerging, there are the likes of Yamal to consider too. Management doesn't get easier, does it?

[downendcity]

7 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I can't defend the performances, I can't for the life of me understand why we changed our style from 2022 with runners getting past Kane. Just look at the 2 goals against Germany, we really struggled to do anything like that this summer.

I'm happy for him to go if not just to stop the Southgate debate, because I genuinely believe no one is right or wrong - as you say just different views and you can make a a fairly valid argument either way about his time.

No change, except that now everyone gets past Kane! 

Therein lies one of our problems throughout the tournament. It's hard to press the back 4  if your central striker is struggling to get upfield from his defensive midfield position.

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, lenred said:

Cannot stand Rudd.   Everything from her is always click bait.  Her and Matt Lawton are terrible for The Times which usually has great sports reporting.   Who says we have the ‘superior players’.  Not anyone I’ve seen with any ounce of footballing knowledge.  Their cost makes absolutely no difference either in making a great team.  

This. Both absolute bellends. 

[Cowshed]

22 minutes ago, downendcity said:

No change, except that now everyone gets past Kane! 

Therein lies one of our problems throughout the tournament. It's hard to press the back 4  if your central striker is struggling to get upfield from his defensive midfield position.

England didn't press Spains back four they dropped off them and went man for and as the opponents entered the second third. Southgate changed this in the second half and Spain took charge.  

[Southport Red]

I have been wondering why is it that England have failed over the last 58 years?

The players have changed countless times, yet still we fail.

The managers too

The FA Execs likewise

One consistency is the British Media.  They tell us we have a team of world-beaters and raise expectations to the nines.  Then, when reality crashes in, they line up to crucify 'those responsible'.  I do genuinely repair at Southgate's ultra conservative approach and wish, just once, he would 'go for it' without us being behind.  However, we were habitual failures long before he got here and unless we learn from our mistakes, we will be long after he has gone.

I am mindful of Kipling's line about "Triumph and Disaster" and "Treating those two imposters just the same".  Whenever we win, it's all "It's coming home", when we lose it's "yet another failure".  Let's try and learn the lesson this time, this is a young team, many will be at their peak come the World Cup, let's all prepare for this now.  So that means no "Its coming home, when we beat someone like Macedonia.

[redkev]

Like others have said you cant knock what Southgate has done in building bridges between fans - media - and players actually wanting and enjoying playing for England again , but he hasn’t progressed as a manager or learnt any lessons over the years , when the going gets tough he is like a rabbit in headlights he seems frozen as what to do , as far back as losing to Croatia in the World Cup as soon as Croatia started to get on top he seems powerless as what to do and now all these years on nothing has changed , and to not take a left sided player knowing Luke shaw was not fit to the later stages was criminal, don’t get me wrong I think shaw is the best left back in the country and was worth taking him , but surely chillwell or Mitchell should have gone at the expense of Wharton or even Dunk that decision not to take one shows to me he’s not thinking straight - 

become to attached to some of the players aswell , if fergie / mourinho / pep would have been manager I swear Kane wouldn’t have seen the 2nd half of any of those games if picked at all after the first 2 , 

[Markthehorn]

So basically we played an unfit Kane .

Probably didn’t give much confidence or faith to the likes of Watkins and Toney then ?

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, KegCity said:

I agree, although their quality was in different areas of the pitch (each wing) rather than the same area of the pitch as in England's case (attacking midfield).

But we could have played Gordon and Saka down the sides with Foden through the middle.  And Bellingham/Mainoo in behind.

We could have gone 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 both of which 90% of the England team are familiar with.  Instead we played 4-2-3-1 without the pace on the left to make it work, everything went down England's right. What was even more disappointing the defence never seemed to have the man over that they should have.  

We could have taken a squad that looked much more balanced.

Walker/White - Stones - Konsa - Braithwaite/Shaw

                           Rice

               Foden.  ---  Bellingham 

      Saka.  ---    -----    ---      Gordon

                             Kane

 

Except he didn't take White or Braithwaite and Gordon fell off his bike.  That's got balance and is familiar to the players.

 

Edited July 15 by Lorenzos Only Goal

[Numero Uno]

9 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

But we could have played Gordon and Saka down the sides with Foden through the middle.  And Bellingham/Mainoo in behind.

We could have gone 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 both of which 90% of the England team are familiar with.  Instead we played 4-2-3-1 without the pace on the left to make it work, everything went down England's right. What was even more disappointing the defence never seemed to have the man over that they should have.  

We could have taken a squad that looked much more balanced.

Walker/White - Stones - Konsa - Braithwaite/Shaw

                           Rice

               Foden.  ---  Bellingham 

      Saka.  ---    -----    ---      Gordon

                             Kane

 

Except he didn't take White or Braithwaite and Gordon fell off his bike.  That's got balance and is familiar to the players.

 

White made it clear he doesn’t want to be in the squad and personally I hope the next manager doesn’t even bother to ask him. You’ve got lads like Trippier getting a right slagging playing out of position and White would rather be on holiday. Make sure you got your holiday booked in two years would be my message to him.

[Maltshoveller]

1 hour ago, Bris Red said:

Howe is the only standout English candidate for me, he seems like a good fit, tactically streets ahead of Southgate and appears to have the sort of personality that would fit in at the FA..

The same Eddie Howe who some how managed to get a very talented Bournemouth side relegated 

from what seemed a very stable mid table position 

No thank you not for me (only my opinion)

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

White made it clear he doesn’t want to be in the squad and personally I hope the next manager doesn’t even bother to ask him. You’ve got lads like Trippier getting a right slagging playing out of position and White would rather be on holiday. Make sure you got your holiday booked in two years would be my message to him.

White was told by Steve Holland he wasn't good enough and needed to learn to play and wasn't interested enough in football, on the training ground Infront of the whole squad.  And White has said he won't play for that management team without an apology, instead the management team threw him under a bus.  So one of England's best defensive right backs has been ostracized by a ******* idiot.  Meanwhile his club manager thinks he's one of the most hard working, members of the squad.  I'd like to see the back of both Holland and Southgate.

Edited July 15 by Lorenzos Only Goal

[Fordy62]

20 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

White was told by Steve Holland he wasn't good enough and needed to learn to play and wasn't interested enough in football, on the training ground Infront of the whole squad.  And White has said he won't play for that management team without an apology, instead the management team threw him under a bus.  So one of England's best defensive right backs has been ostracized by a ******* idiot.  Meanwhile his club manager thinks he's one of the most hard working, members of the squad.  I'd like to see the back of both Holland and Southgate.

Now that Walker is probably going to hang up his international boots, White is undoubtedly our best right back option. 

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

No change, except that now everyone gets past Kane! 

Therein lies one of our problems throughout the tournament. It's hard to press the back 4  if your central striker is struggling to get upfield from his defensive midfield position.

Kane has always dropped in, so I’m not going to accept that his style of play is the problem. Our inability to build a team around him is the problem, something we did better at in 21/22 IMO

[Mr Popodopolous]

46 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

But we could have played Gordon and Saka down the sides with Foden through the middle.  And Bellingham/Mainoo in behind.

We could have gone 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 both of which 90% of the England team are familiar with.  Instead we played 4-2-3-1 without the pace on the left to make it work, everything went down England's right. What was even more disappointing the defence never seemed to have the man over that they should have.  

We could have taken a squad that looked much more balanced.

Walker/White - Stones - Konsa - Braithwaite/Shaw

                           Rice

               Foden.  ---  Bellingham 

      Saka.  ---    -----    ---      Gordon

                             Kane

 

Except he didn't take White or Braithwaite and Gordon fell off his bike.  That's got balance and is familiar to the players.

 

That's not bad though White and Branthwaite are predominantly CBs yeah? Can be a double edged sword..albeit I do prefer a 4-3-3ish.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Now that Walker is probably going to hang up his international boots, White is undoubtedly our best right back option. 

It did tickle me that Hirst mentioned that Walker was a talent for England looking forward into the next world cup while at the same time attributing Yamal to the England squad.  Walker will be 37 I'm not sure his pace will be quite that electric then.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Kane has always dropped in, so I’m not going to accept that his style of play is the problem. Our inability to build a team around him is the problem, something we did better at in 21/22 IMO

Kane has been letdown by the coaching staff.  He's been asked to play in a way he's not capable of.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

Should also add @Lorenzos Only Goal if we are doing ifs and buts, Pedri injured quarter final.. had that not happened, wonder how that impacts our balance and tactical tweaks, who drops out for Spain etc.. in what we could've done differently they too may have tweaked.

Possibly slightly more central control at the expense of one of their wide players would be my starting point.

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, redkev said:

Like others have said you cant knock what Southgate has done in building bridges between fans - media - and players actually wanting and enjoying playing for England again , but he hasn’t progressed as a manager or learnt any lessons over the years , when the going gets tough he is like a rabbit in headlights he seems frozen as what to do , as far back as losing to Croatia in the World Cup as soon as Croatia started to get on top he seems powerless as what to do and now all these years on nothing has changed , and to not take a left sided player knowing Luke shaw was not fit to the later stages was criminal, don’t get me wrong I think shaw is the best left back in the country and was worth taking him , but surely chillwell or Mitchell should have gone at the expense of Wharton or even Dunk that decision not to take one shows to me he’s not thinking straight - 

become to attached to some of the players aswell , if fergie / mourinho / pep would have been manager I swear Kane wouldn’t have seen the 2nd half of any of those games if picked at all after the first 2 , 

I think this gets said a lot and it ignores the improvements he has made.

He’s been criticised for his subs, yet his subs changed the games this summer? Making different changes for different game situations.

He was 1-0 down last night against Spain and he made changes to get us back into it - he lost the midfield a bit with those changes so he was about to bring Gallagher on to re-shape it.

Chilwell was absolutely dreadful in the previous set of friendlies, could have taken him but it would have been a risk. Unless he derails the reasons for every single decision you can’t say he “isn’t thinking straight”.

Every manager in history has been accused of having favourites - again without having insight it’s really hard to know reasons behind selections, but not starting arguably your best ever striker would come under criticism. Easy to critique from hindsight. If we’d got other the line last night then the Shaw gamble could have looked a master stroke.

[Numero Uno]

23 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

White was told by Steve Holland he wasn't good enough and needed to learn to play and wasn't interested enough in football, on the training ground Infront of the whole squad.  And White has said he won't play for that management team without an apology, instead the management team threw him under a bus.  So one of England's best defensive right backs has been ostracized by a ******* idiot.  Meanwhile his club manager thinks he's one of the most hard working, members of the squad.  I'd like to see the back of both Holland and Southgate.

I wasn’t there so don’t know the details, certainly what I’ve read in the press differs from what you say so who knows? The laughable bit is had it been Conor Gallagher demanding an apology everyone would be saying “**** him, who does he think he is?”

People are clamouring for the team to be attacking on one hand then saying it’s a travesty our best DEFENSIVE right back is not playing on the other. White will only ever be a temporary solution until we find a midfield player to go alongside Mainoo (who will be a far better player for his experience against top players in that Spanish engine room) that can do it against the best and full backs who do what Cucurella did in the 85th minute last night.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's not bad though White and Branthwaite are predominantly CBs yeah? Can be a double edged sword..albeit I do prefer a 4-3-3ish.

Of the available left sided players I'd have taken them both.  Braithwaite is utilised more at CB but can play LB and has done when Mykolenko is injured there are better choices but they were injured.  Ben White plays right back for Arsenal, a certain Saliba has his old spot. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Of the available left sided players I'd have taken them both.  Braithwaite is utilised more at CB but can play LB and has done when Mykolenko is injured there are better choices but they were injured.  Ben White plays right back for Arsenal, a certain Saliba has his old spot. 

On one hand it can assist central dominance such players in and out, this is all a bit linear of me- otoh too narrow a shape can risk losing the flanks.

Bit of a Risk-Reward dynamic IMO which is normal and maybe we do need a bit more risk.

White is more orthodox? I recall he begin at CB, Branthwaite I took to be a CB predominantly albeit both with talent, technique and versatility it seems- room for growth too.

Edited July 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I think this gets said a lot and it ignores the improvements he has made.

He’s been criticised for his subs, yet his subs changed the games this summer? Making different changes for different game situations.

He was 1-0 down last night against Spain and he made changes to get us back into it - he lost the midfield a bit with those changes so he was about to bring Gallagher on to re-shape it.

Chilwell was absolutely dreadful in the previous set of friendlies, could have taken him but it would have been a risk. Unless he derails the reasons for every single decision you can’t say he “isn’t thinking straight”.

Every manager in history has been accused of having favourites - again without having insight it’s really hard to know reasons behind selections, but not starting arguably your best ever striker would come under criticism. Easy to critique from hindsight. If we’d got other the line last night then the Shaw gamble could have looked a master stroke.

A very good point made last night is Spain make subs to CONTINUE the game, we make them to CHANGE it. That’s part of the next steps for England. You shouldn’t need to be changing it up every game because you are playing without quality in forward areas.

[Rob k]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

A very good point made last night is Spain make subs to CONTINUE the game, we make them to CHANGE it. That’s part of the next steps for England. You shouldn’t need to be changing it up every game because you are playing without quality in forward areas.

I kind of agree - at the end of the tournament if your still having to make changes because things are still not working, then maybe its because the initial line up was wrong in the first place 

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On one hand it can assist central dominance such players in and out, this is all a bit linear of me- otoh too narrow a shape can risk losing the flanks.

Bit of a Risk-Reward dynamic IMO which is normal and maybe we do need a bit more risk.

White is more orthodox? I recall he begin at CB, Branthwaite I took to be a CB predominantly albeit both with talent, technique and versatility it seems- room for growth too.

If England want to lift cups then in the long run we need full backs that can join in the play rather than solid centre half cum right backs who don’t.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Southport Red said:

I have been wondering why is it that England have failed over the last 58 years?

The players have changed countless times, yet still we fail.

The managers too

The FA Execs likewise

One consistency is the British Media.  They tell us we have a team of world-beaters and raise expectations to the nines.  Then, when reality crashes in, they line up to crucify 'those responsible'.  I do genuinely repair at Southgate's ultra conservative approach and wish, just once, he would 'go for it' without us being behind.  However, we were habitual failures long before he got here and unless we learn from our mistakes, we will be long after he has gone.

I am mindful of Kipling's line about "Triumph and Disaster" and "Treating those two imposters just the same".  Whenever we win, it's all "It's coming home", when we lose it's "yet another failure".  Let's try and learn the lesson this time, this is a young team, many of this team will be at their peak come the world cup, let's all prepare for this now.  So that means no "Its coming home, when we beat someone like Macedonia.

Yet you are already building up expectations 2 years ahead of it, so do you think it's coming home then?

Edited July 15 by pillred

[awbb]

Like many have said, I don’t think it’s particularly difficult to isolate where we could have been better in this tournament. There are serious question marks regarding squad selection, blind loyalty and tactics.

Having said that, I’d be worried about us slipping back into the squad atmosphere of the so-called golden generation were Southgate decide to call it quits. 
 

I’d be intrigued by a potential swap around with his staff.  My understanding is that Steve Holland has a lot of responsibility for coaching and potentially he could fall on his sword and a new assistant coach could be brought in with ideas and methods to address some of the obvious issues? 
 

Zeljko Buvac might be a good choice, for example, who worked with Klopp at Dortmund and Liverpool.

Edited July 15 by awbb

[Mr Popodopolous]

This will sound negative about 2026 but..

1) Spain could be even better then by some metrics.

2) Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Uruguay all playing in the US, Americas.

3) I don't think the climate and heat, humidity would be especially favourable to a high octane approach albeit neither was Qatar. 

4) Some of those aforementioned coild have an advantage due to big expat Latin communities. Albeit plenty of England fans could head over there too.

5) France, Germany and Holland feel unknown..either had their day or could revive a bit. Portugal ditto. Then again the first 3 are broadly Northern and Western European so likewise stifling heat won't help them.

6) Only twice has a European side won a WC outside Europe. Albeit both were relatively recent and it is no longer such a big factor.

Edited July 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

How stifling can North America get between June 11th and July 19th? Canada could be the coolest maybe?

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

But we could have played Gordon and Saka down the sides with Foden through the middle.  And Bellingham/Mainoo in behind.

We could have gone 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 both of which 90% of the England team are familiar with.  Instead we played 4-2-3-1 without the pace on the left to make it work, everything went down England's right. What was even more disappointing the defence never seemed to have the man over that they should have.  

We could have taken a squad that looked much more balanced.

Walker/White - Stones - Konsa - Braithwaite/Shaw

                           Rice

               Foden.  ---  Bellingham 

      Saka.  ---    -----    ---      Gordon

                             Kane

 

Except he didn't take White or Braithwaite and Gordon fell off his bike.  That's got balance and is familiar to the players.

 

All this clamour for Gordon (who would admittedly have been a far better option on the left than the right-footed Trippier when Shaw was out).

I watched MOTD every week, and there was one player in the squad (who managed to get a couple of fleeting sub appearances) who was player of the day almost every other week towards the end of the season. Lineker, Shearer and Wright and the commentators were (rightly) wetting their pants over him.

And yet no clamour for him to start.

[Super]

1 hour ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

But we could have played Gordon and Saka down the sides with Foden through the middle.  And Bellingham/Mainoo in behind.

We could have gone 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 both of which 90% of the England team are familiar with.  Instead we played 4-2-3-1 without the pace on the left to make it work, everything went down England's right. What was even more disappointing the defence never seemed to have the man over that they should have.  

We could have taken a squad that looked much more balanced.

Walker/White - Stones - Konsa - Braithwaite/Shaw

                           Rice

               Foden.  ---  Bellingham 

      Saka.  ---    -----    ---      Gordon

                             Kane

 

Except he didn't take White or Braithwaite and Gordon fell off his bike.  That's got balance and is familiar to the players.

 

Hardly his fault White wasn't interested.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Hardly his fault White wasn't interested.

It absolutely was, he's every right to deselect himself given the treatment he's had off the staff.

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How stifling can North America get between June 11th and July 19th? Canada could be the coolest maybe?

37 degrees in Kansas City today

[The Coach]

I would imagine by 2026 our back four should look like the following below. 

Mitchell…Branthwaite…Stones…White

Have options to utilise likes of Guehi and Konsa then. Especially on that left hand side which has stung us this year.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

37 degrees in Kansas City today

Reckon it is probably quite humid too in part of US and Mexico especially.

It could suit Latin and some Southern European sides moreso.

Edited July 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[MarcusX]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How stifling can North America get between June 11th and July 19th? Canada could be the coolest maybe?

I think most of the areas have potential to be 30+ degrees even late in the evening, Texas, Miami and LA probably even higher

Gonna be a hot one for fans and players alike but at least the buildings will be more air conditioned than Germany has been

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

I think most of the areas have potential to be 30+ degrees even late in the evening, Texas, Miami and LA probably even higher

Gonna be a hot one for fans and players alike but at least the buildings will be more air conditioned than Germany has been

It might not suit us so well but maybe that is a fear more in line with the past.

[Super]

11 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

It absolutely was, he's every right to deselect himself given the treatment he's had off the staff.

What treatment?

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

23 minutes ago, Superjack said:

All this clamour for Gordon (who would admittedly have been a far better option on the left than the right-footed Trippier when Shaw was out).

I watched MOTD every week, and there was one player in the squad (who managed to get a couple of fleeting sub appearances) who was player of the day almost every other week towards the end of the season. Lineker, Shearer and Wright and the commentators were (rightly) wetting their pants over him.

And yet no clamour for him to start.

Miley might well have displaced Gordon by the world cup.  This season will be interesting for him.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Reckon it is probably quite humid too in part of US and Mexico especially.

It could suit Latin and some Southern European sides moreso.

That's the least of the problems there, 9 hour flight between some locations, a few timezones, that's a whole shit show waiting to cause teams a massive headache.  

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Driving around today in this horrible wet weather and seeing all the England flags and bunting bedraggled and drooping seemed somewhat apt somehow.

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Reckon it is probably quite humid too in part of US and Mexico especially.

It could suit Latin and some Southern European sides moreso.

Indeed. A stiflingly hot climate, incredibly restrictive alcohol laws (in Kansas City), and likely a less than tasteful national government.

Nice of FIFA to keep the recent traditions of the World Cup alive.

[redkev]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I think this gets said a lot and it ignores the improvements he has made.

He’s been criticised for his subs, yet his subs changed the games this summer? Making different changes for different game situations.

He was 1-0 down last night against Spain and he made changes to get us back into it - he lost the midfield a bit with those changes so he was about to bring Gallagher on to re-shape it.

Chilwell was absolutely dreadful in the previous set of friendlies, could have taken him but it would have been a risk. Unless he derails the reasons for every single decision you can’t say he “isn’t thinking straight”.

Every manager in history has been accused of having favourites - again without having insight it’s really hard to know reasons behind selections, but not starting arguably your best ever striker would come under criticism. Easy to critique from hindsight. If we’d got other the line last night then the Shaw gamble could have looked a master stroke.

I totally agree with the shaw gamble , and I sort of agre about not playing arguably europes no1 striker but it was really tough watching Kane he was struggling badly for the whole tournament 

[marmite]

22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It might not suit us so well but maybe that is a fear more in line with the past.

Have we qualified already then?

[Offside]

Overall it was a strange tournament for England with a mixture of poor performances and moments of individual brilliance that gave us hope. 

In last night’s game we simply weren’t good enough. I thought our passing was poor and our key attacking players (e.g. Bellingham, Foden) didn’t find any spark. Spain were much more proactive and deserved the win, although the margins were still very small (their winner only a fraction onside, our header cleared off the line etc). We wasted our spell of ascendency after the equaliser by conceding space and sitting back. 

Gutted to have lost another final. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, marmite said:

Have we qualified already then?

Ah well there is that of course.. we must navigate and under a new manager it could be an unknown.

48 Teams are in it this time around however so ample opportunity but I'll caveat my posts to if we qualify.

Edited July 15 by Mr Popodopolous

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Miley might well have displaced Gordon by the world cup.  This season will be interesting for him.

Umm... who?

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Kane has always dropped in, so I’m not going to accept that his style of play is the problem. Our inability to build a team around him is the problem, something we did better at in 21/22 IMO

While my comment was a little tongue in cheek there is little doubt that Kane was off the pace throughout the tournament and in all likelihood not fully fit 

Perhaps GS did build a team around him, but assumed it would be the normal, fit and sharp HK we've seen so many times.

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

                    Pickford

Alexander Arnold Guehi Stones  ?

      Rice Mainoo/Wharton/etc?

 Saka         Foden       Bellingham 

                   Watkins

Palmer? Eze?

Trying to balance out control and attack vs stability.

Who is the best LB. Branthwaite,Shaw, Tripper? Pick one.

I would be inclined to start Watkins sometime soon, as he can play along the front, he can press hard and he is younger.

Maybe not every game but inclined.

[The Coach]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

                    Pickford

Alexander Arnold Guehi Stones  ?

      Rice Mainoo/Wharton/etc?

 Saka         Foden       Bellingham 

                   Watkins

Palmer? Eze?

Trying to balance out control and attack vs stability.

Who is the best LB. Branthwaite,Shaw, Tripper? Pick one.

I would be inclined to start Watkins sometime soon, as he can play along the front, he can press hard and he is younger.

Maybe not every game but inclined.

Branthwaite or Mitchell for me at LB.

Gordon or Grealish LW. Foden at 10 then Bellingham & Rice at 8 and 6. Then can utilise Wharton and Mainoo.

Should also see Palmer battle Saka more for RW. Possibly Ben White at RB if he continues on from last season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, The Coach said:

Branthwaite or Mitchell for me at LB.

Gordon or Grealish LW. Foden at 10 then Bellingham & Rice at 8 and 6. Then can utilise Wharton and Mainoo.

Should also see Palmer battle Saka more for RW. Possibly Ben White at RB if he continues on from last season.

Ah yes forgot about Mitchell.

Shows what an embarrassment of riches we have in some positions talking higher up..TAA has been a great dynamic attacking fullback over the years though, is it that he doesn't mesh well, is it that his day has passed.

[The Coach]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah yes forgot about Mitchell.

Shows what an embarrassment of riches we have in some positions talking higher up..TAA has been a great dynamic attacking fullback over the years though, is it that he doesn't mesh well, is it that his day has passed.

Trent’s a RWB, he struggles defensively at RB. Ben White has adapted so well at playing RB or RWB that he has to be our first choice.

However, I have a feeling Trent will be at Real Madrid next summer on a free. That could seriously help his development and up his game.

[fgrsimon]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I think most of the areas have potential to be 30+ degrees even late in the evening, Texas, Miami and LA probably even higher

Gonna be a hot one for fans and players alike but at least the buildings will be more air conditioned than Germany has been

Yeah I was there during WC 1994. England were supposed to be there too but Graham Taylor scuppered our football plans!

It was 90F+ in New York, Niagra, Toronto, LA, Santa Barbara, Las Vegas. Saw USA v Romania in Pasadena and it was near 100F on the pitch. Too hot for even watching football. The only place it was cooler was San Francisco.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

That's the least of the problems there, 9 hour flight between some locations, a few timezones, that's a whole shit show waiting to cause teams a massive headache.  

 

Sounds logistically difficult!

Canada-Mexico-USA. Certainly haven't looked up the host cities yet.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Trent’s a RWB, he struggles defensively at RB. Ben White has adapted so well at playing RB or RWB that he has to be our first choice.

However, I have a feeling Trent will be at Real Madrid next summer on a free. That could seriously help his development and up his game.

He plays in a back 4 at Liverpool? Attacking full back or wingback?

That aside..

Gordon/Grealish- LW

Foden- 10

Bellingham and Rice- 8 and 6

Wharton or Mainoo- RW

Saka/Palmer?

6 before we even get onto the striker? Or do we cross off Wharton/Mainoo until or unless firdt reserve.

[The Coach]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

He plays in a back 4 at Liverpool? Attacking full back or wingback?

That aside..

Gordon/Grealish- LW

Foden- 10

Bellingham and Rice- 8 and 6

Wharton or Mainoo- RW

Saka/Palmer?

6 before we even get onto the striker? Or do we cross off Wharton/Mainoo until or unless firdt reserve.

He does play in the back four at Liverpool but it’s not his best position. Defensively he’s a huge risk.

I would still utilise Wharton and Mainoo. We have a few options to play as a forward. Bellingham and Palmer at times have even played in that false 9 position. 

There is a lot of opportunity with this England squad. We really just need to be more open in our approach.

Apart from Watkins & Toney I’m not sure who else we have coming through as a forward. Greenwood would have been the one if he wasn’t a scumbag.

[Markthehorn]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Sounds logistically difficult!

Canada-Mexico-USA. Certainly haven't looked up the host cities yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_FIFA_World_Cup

Got our excuses ready.

[The Coach]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Sounds logistically difficult!

Canada-Mexico-USA. Certainly haven't looked up the host cities yet.

Surely each group should be aligned to a specific area/state? FIFA can’t expect a team to play in Florida then 6 days later be up in Canada for a group game. They’ve got to workout what is best for each group and players fatigue. Even taking into account carbon footprint

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Markthehorn said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_FIFA_World_Cup

Got our excuses ready.

I just wonder if it will suit Latin/Southern European and South American sides better.

1 minute ago, The Coach said:

Surely each group should be aligned to a specific area/state? FIFA can’t expect a team to play in Florida then 6 days later be up in Canada for a group game. They’ve got to workout what is best for each group and players fatigue. Even taking into account carbon footprint

Agreed.

[Markthehorn]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I just wonder if it will suit Latin/Southern European and South American sides better.

Agreed.

With the heat too.

Messi will probably fancy his chances of a last hurrah you feel.

I don't even think they have worked out what the groups are going to look like yet..

 

Going by last night FIFA will want to check all the stadiums are safe for fans and security good. 

 

[Super]

43 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Trent’s a RWB, he struggles defensively at RB. Ben White has adapted so well at playing RB or RWB that he has to be our first choice.

However, I have a feeling Trent will be at Real Madrid next summer on a free. That could seriously help his development and up his game.

Absolutely zero chance.

[The Coach]

10 minutes ago, Super said:

Absolutely zero chance.

You dismissed Mainoo all tournament when I told you he’s miles better than Gallagher  

There is every chance of Trent going to Madrid. They’ve been very keen on him since he came onto the scene.

[Markthehorn]

I guess IF there is a new manager the expectation for 2026 and so on will be to at least match Southgate's achievements but in a more eye catching manner?