Come on, England

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, Ian M said:

People. I didn't make a note of their names at the time of reading as I didn't realise there would be a quiz later

Ah right, so just bullshit then

[Clutton Caveman]

18 hours ago, Robbored said:

I find it hard to believe that the lacklustre performances we’ve seen are down to the players alone. It looks to me that they’ve been coached/directed not to play attacking football hence the sideways and back passes that have pissed off the England fans. 

I’m sure that if England had a more proactive manager who gave the team encouragement to play their own game we’d see far more entertaining football. Southgate was a CB with a defensive mindset and that defensive caution has followed him int management.

Our team reflects the manager, lack lustre, without passion, no aggression too nice.

We also no or very old fashioned tactics.

Only he could fail with this squad and only the F.A would appoint such a person to such a big job.

[Clutton Caveman]

18 hours ago, Robbored said:

Their “own game” is based on their natural game where a huge part is instinct combined with their natural footballing skills. 
Instinct is knowing where/when to pass as well as the right time, right place particularly for strikers. These guys are top professionals and know how to create space but they’re not doing it and that begs the question - why aren’t they?

Its either with them freezing on the big games (very unlikely) or down to Southgate.

He should have known his best team months ago and they should have played several times together rather than experimenting with a right back in midfield and picking his players on reputation rather than the ability to fit into a team. With Tripper at left back and Foden left side we have nothing coming from that side whatsoever.

[Robbored]

12 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

He should have known his best team months ago and they should have played several times together rather than experimenting with a right back in midfield and picking his players on reputation rather than the ability to fit into a team. With Tripper at left back and Foden left side we have nothing coming from that side whatsoever.

Southgate apparently selects players based on form - hence no Grealish who in the eyes of many was a ridiculous omission. He has such tricky feet that he wins plenty of free kicks in excellent positions and occasional penalties.

 

[RedEyez]

So if I’m the Slovenian manager, I’m telling my team to low block all game , play on the counter and you get at least a point against this clueless tactician that is Southgate.

4-0 England incoming

[Ian M]

59 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Ah right, so just bullshit then

Are you passive aggressively calling me a liar Sir? I'm not that invested in proving the view exists

[The Coach]

2 hours ago, pillred said:

So there is no chance that in the next game it's completely different? Just because a team is playing badly doesn't automatically mean that it will carry on being like that, we could suddenly click play brilliantly and you will have missed out.

Do you think England will play brilliantly tonight? 

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

He should have known his best team months ago and they should have played several times together rather than experimenting with a right back in midfield and picking his players on reputation rather than the ability to fit into a team. With Tripper at left back and Foden left side we have nothing coming from that side whatsoever.

The left side is a huge problem IMO. As you said we have no threat whatsoever from that side, some of our best football in the last few tournaments has come from Luke shaw bombing on giving you that attacking outlet and also Sterling a player who has operated on the left handside most of his club career being able to do a job on that side aswell.

Criminal that Foden is being shoehorned out on the left when its so plainly obvious that he is at his most dangerous playing at number 10.

I would love to see him drop Bellingham back to play the 'box to box' role alongside Rice, put Foden where he naturally wants to be at number 10 and put Gordon or Palmer on the left of Kane..The balance would be so much better. Still have the issue of Trippier at left back but again he needs to take a risk, possibly Gomez at left back considering he has played there for Liverpool for most of this season and has done fairly well that could be a shout..

 

Edited June 25 by Bris Red

[pillred]

23 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Do you think England will play brilliantly tonight? 

Well they couldn't be any bl***y worse could they, brilliantly might be pushing it but you wouldn't want to miss it if they were, would you?

[Slippin cider]

9 minutes ago, pillred said:

Well they couldn't be any bl***y worse could they, brilliantly might be pushing it but you wouldn't want to miss it if they were, would you?

Having already qualified for the last 16 I can’t see them playing brilliantly no ….

[Numero Uno]

40 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Do you think England will play brilliantly tonight? 

You could ask will they play shite? We just don’t know. All I will say is if it’s not a lot better then there are issues. The likes of Rice, Kane and Southgate have had plenty to say, now it’s time to pipe down and start doing it. A good performance tonight does wonders for our confidence and also puts that bit of fear into our next opponents.

[Gimme Shelton]

1 hour ago, The Coach said:

Do you think England will play brilliantly tonight? 

Every tournament,well nearly every tournament, England play really well in 1 match with the rest being a mix of average or dross.

 

 

 

 

[Sir Geoff]

10 minutes ago, Gimme Shelton said:

Every tournament,well nearly every tournament, England play really well in 1 match with the rest being a mix of average or dross.

 

 

 

 

You're spot on even the much lauded tournaments of '90 and '96 were a combination of mainly poor abit of average and a cracking game.

[SecretSam]

5 hours ago, Ian M said:

Personally I think we are better defensively without him but pose less goal threat. Not exactly why you pick a CB

Aden Flint enters the chat...

 

[SecretSam]

2 hours ago, frenchred said:

Ah right, so just bullshit then

No, IIRC I read it in the Grauniad. 442 might have mentioned it as well. It's not other people's fault they can't remember every reference source, this is OTIB, not Encyclopaedia Britannica.

 

[Clutton Caveman]

22 hours ago, Bris Red said:

The left side is a huge problem IMO. As you said we have no threat whatsoever from that side, some of our best football in the last few tournaments has come from Luke shaw bombing on giving you that attacking outlet and also Sterling a player who has operated on the left handside most of his club career being able to do a job on that side aswell.

Criminal that Foden is being shoehorned out on the left when its so plainly obvious that he is at his most dangerous playing at number 10.

I would love to see him drop Bellingham back to play the 'box to box' role alongside Rice, put Foden where he naturally wants to be at number 10 and put Gordon or Palmer on the left of Kane..The balance would be so much better. Still have the issue of Trippier at left back but again he needs to take a risk, possibly Gomez at left back considering he has played there for Liverpool for most of this season and has done fairly well that could be a shout..

 

Having watched the game last night it seems that Bellingham has morphed into Bruno Fernandes with most of his effort going into moaning and waiving his arms. How Kane stayed on is beyond me and although the subs had great impact they will not be in the next starting line up. Do an Ivory Coast, fly Potter out for the next games and move on.

[MarcusX]

On 25/06/2024 at 09:16, Ian M said:

It's fairly amusing to me that "omg, why is Southgate picking Maguire when he can't even get in the team at United?!" has been replaced with "we miss Maguire"
 

Also as per @SecretSam I find it wild that we seem to be missing Maguire's ability to bring the ball out but Stones isn't taking on this responsibility when he'd be comfortable doing it for Manchester.

For what it’s worth I’ve always been pro Maguire for England. He’s solid defensively, comfortable on the ball and a goal threat at the other end.

Guehi’s been good defensively (bar a mistake against Denmark that he recovered and a mix up with stones last night). But if I had to criticise him I’d say he has no bravery on the ball. He doesn’t pass forward beyond five yards into Rice whereas Maguire was often good at finding passes into a 10/strikers feet.

Id agree with the criticism of stones too, although for some reason he’s never really carried it forward much like he does for City. Maguire is brave, Stones is safe.

5 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Having watched the game last night it seems that Bellingham has morphed into Bruno Fernandes with most of his effort going into moaning and waiving his arms. How Kane stayed on is beyond me and although the subs had great impact they will not be in the next starting line up. Do an Ivory Coast, fly Potter out for the next games and move on.

Have to agree, I may catch some stick for this but I’m unsure about Bellingham at the minute. He’s got a touch of the Ronaldo’s about him and he’s acting a bit petulant - especially watching in the ground off the ball, waving his arms, complaining, moaning to the bench.

In his defence, when he does play passes you can see him directing the receiver where to go next and they aren’t doing it. He’s mentally two steps ahead of anyone else on the pitch, and I think that’s frustrating him.

[Bristol Rob]

 

 

[SecretSam]

"Why don’t they have a midfield? Why has the attempt to find one become a kind of desperate speed dating exercise?"

Grauniad article

[Nogbad the Bad]

For the first time I can ever remember I decided not to watch or listen to the England game last night.

I gather it was as boring and frustrating as we've come to expect.

Not worth watching, certainly  not worth getting emotionally involved, no regrets whatsoever.

[MarcusX]

Also a shout out to Slovenia and copying our “bounce around” chant

[DolmanGaz]

So... stupid optimist that I am, I still fancy us, as ever in recent years, the draw is hugely in our favour, and Southgate is bound to luck onto the right XI eventually!

 

Surely he now realises Trippier isn't up to it and starts Trent or Gomez at LB?

Surely he now realises it has to be Mainoo next to Rice?

Surely he now realises Palmer has to play?

Surely, with Foden back in the UK for a spell, he starts Gordon on the left?

 

if this all happens, I think we win on Sunday

[TonyTonyTony]

15 minutes ago, DolmanGaz said:

So... stupid optimist that I am, I still fancy us, as ever in recent years, the draw is hugely in our favour, and Southgate is bound to luck onto the right XI eventually!

 

Surely he now realises Trippier isn't up to it and starts Trent or Gomez at LB?

Surely he now realises it has to be Mainoo next to Rice?

Surely he now realises Palmer has to play?

Surely, with Foden back in the UK for a spell, he starts Gordon on the left?

 

if this all happens, I think we win on Sunday

Conor Gallagher

[DolmanGaz]

12 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Conor Gallagher

if he persists with him after those last games... he needs series medical assistance and a mental evaluation...

[MarcusX]

13 hours ago, DolmanGaz said:

So... stupid optimist that I am, I still fancy us, as ever in recent years, the draw is hugely in our favour, and Southgate is bound to luck onto the right XI eventually!

 

Surely he now realises Trippier isn't up to it and starts Trent or Gomez at LB?

Surely he now realises it has to be Mainoo next to Rice?

Surely he now realises Palmer has to play?

Surely, with Foden back in the UK for a spell, he starts Gordon on the left?

 

if this all happens, I think we win on Sunday

I can't see him making wholesale changes at this stage of the tournament now, unfortunately.

He won't change Trippier, that back line is solid. I think he'll take a solid defence and limited chances for opponents over an untried full back. Neither Trent or Gomez solve the left footed situation either.

Foden is due to be back by Sunday so I wouldn't count on Gordon. If anything I think Gordon proved himself as a good impact sub, bring him on earlier though.

13 hours ago, DolmanGaz said:

if he persists with him after those last games... he needs series medical assistance and a mental evaluation...

It depends what he's trying to achieve.

Trent in midfield in theory gives us someone who wants to pick the ball up deep and can play longer passes switching the play quickly. If we play with someone on the left who wants to get in behind then great, if not he's wasted as we saw in the first two games.

Gallagher in midfield the other night allowed us to leave Rice deep by himself and give him more space to get on the ball. He pressed higher and he has the energy to recover as well, a more box to box style. Now I wouldn't say it necessarily worked because Rice has lost the ability to pass forwards. He seems to be one of those most crippled by the pressure IMO. 

Gallagher did well taking up space higher up the pitch, he occupied a marker which also gave Bellingham and Foden a bit more space on the left. It helped in the build up to the offside goal.

Mainoo offered something different again, he drifted more and found pockets of space to receive the ball in. If we want to play quicker and braver then he is the man to use. It depends if Southgate is brave enough to start with him - but to me this was a clear attempt to push on in the second half for the goal. The donwside is we need someone brave enough to play the passes through the lines to him. Gordon did it brilliantly for the chance at the end, but who else is willing to do it if Rice isn't?

 

 

[Cowshed]

4 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I can't see him making wholesale changes at this stage of the tournament now, unfortunately.

He won't change Trippier, that back line is solid. I think he'll take a solid defence and limited chances for opponents over an untried full back. Neither Trent or Gomez solve the left footed situation either.

Foden is due to be back by Sunday so I wouldn't count on Gordon. If anything I think Gordon proved himself as a good impact sub, bring him on earlier though.

It depends what he's trying to achieve.

Trent in midfield in theory gives us someone who wants to pick the ball up deep and can play longer passes switching the play quickly. If we play with someone on the left who wants to get in behind then great, if not he's wasted as we saw in the first two games.

Gallagher in midfield the other night allowed us to leave Rice deep by himself and give him more space to get on the ball. He pressed higher and he has the energy to recover as well, a more box to box style. Now I wouldn't say it necessarily worked because Rice has lost the ability to pass forwards. He seems to be one of those most crippled by the pressure IMO. 

Gallagher did well taking up space higher up the pitch, he occupied a marker which also gave Bellingham and Foden a bit more space on the left. It helped in the build up to the offside goal.

Mainoo offered something different again, he drifted more and found pockets of space to receive the ball in. If we want to play quicker and braver then he is the man to use. It depends if Southgate is brave enough to start with him - but to me this was a clear attempt to push on in the second half for the goal. The donwside is we need someone brave enough to play the passes through the lines to him. Gordon did it brilliantly for the chance at the end, but who else is willing to do it if Rice isn't?

 

 

Its quite difficult to get a team to play slower than England. 

[MarcusX]

56 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Its quite difficult to get a team to play slower than England. 

Yes, so if he's happy with the slow tempo, in exchange for a better press and more energy, then he'll persist with Gallagher

If he preferred what happened in the second half with some one touch football, and players like Palmer and Gordon driving into space, then he should go with Mainoo - but at the risk of being weaker out of possesion.

Basically he's just far too safe to be exciting, but that's nothing new. The major difference between this and past tournaments is the forward players aren't clicking and they seem to be taking even less risks in the final third.

[Cowshed]

49 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Yes, so if he's happy with the slow tempo, in exchange for a better press and more energy, then he'll persist with Gallagher

If he preferred what happened in the second half with some one touch football, and players like Palmer and Gordon driving into space, then he should go with Mainoo - but at the risk of being weaker out of possession.

Basically he's just far too safe to be exciting, but that's nothing new. The major difference between this and past tournaments is the forward players aren't clicking and they seem to be taking even less risks in the final third.

A better press and more energy would result from playing the team higher. The back six have been disconnected from the front four. Denmark played in the space between the two. 

The major difference between this and previous tournaments is England lack of width and depth. Players being so deep has lead to England possession football grinding to moss forming speed. England cant play positionally and work openings by being so slow. The passing angles to wide receivers being so flat reduce tempo.The back six are not playing with angles, diamonds, triangles and their in lines in possession. 

England Formerly built from the back in shapes like this            

 

GK

 

 

CB                                                                               CB

 

        CDM

 

RB                                                                                                                                           LB

                                                                                                                          

                                                                                                             CDM

 

Diamonds and triangles. Width. Depth.

 

Versus Slovenia.

                                                                                                                                     GK

 

 

                                                                                                     CB                                                      CB 

                                                                                  RB                                      CDM                                                           LB

                                                                                         

                                                                                                       CDM

 

Different passing angles and patterns. Flatter. Narrower. Less depth. Its a new shape and build up. 

The former also brings the team up the pitch and reduces space between the defense, midfield, forward to press and counter press collectively. 

 

Edited Thursday at 10:52 by Cowshed

[Henry]

I think in every tournament Southgate has managed we’ve ended up going to some sort of system with 3 at the back. I wonder if he might be tempted.

Pickford

TAA     Walker Stones Gheui       Tripper

            Rice Bellingham

Saka.           Kane.             Gordon/Foden

[Slippin cider]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Its quite difficult to get a team to play slower than England. 

I take it you’ve watched City at the Gate? ….enough to put a glass eye to sleep sometimes.