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Come on, England

SecretSam

By SecretSam
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Robbored

Robbored

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, maxjak said:

The answer is to employ a psychiatrist instead of a manager?   We have some of the finest talent in Europe at our disposal, but for whatever reason,  they lack the confidence and the ability to function as a team?

The answer is to change manager and employ another who adopts a far more entertaining style of football.

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robin_unreliant

robin_unreliant

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, maxjak said:

The answer is to employ a psychiatrist instead of a manager?   We have some of the finest talent in Europe at our disposal, but for whatever reason,  they lack the confidence and the ability to function as a team?

Same thing was said when Capello and Sven were managing England. We've had good players for years but missing that winning mentality. Either that or we constantly overhype our players, which I think is nearer the truth.

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2015

2015

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, maxjak said:

Sorry ............but GJ was far more entertaining, AND he got us to a play off final.  Case Closed.

He was overall more entertaining, but i'd go back to the start of 2002/03 season in a heartbeat just for the sheer amount of goals we scored, attacking play and football we were playing as a whole. A very hard League 1 that season too.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

Not exactly a positive post but an interesting take all the same.

I wouldn't say it holds as much now as has happened in the past but I would say England, or I dunno section of fans, especially pundits and or media have perhaps taken opponents or sides with multiple players flourishing in other top 5 or 6 Leagues a bit lightly, dismissed a bit easily whatever.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not exactly a positive post but an interesting take all the same.

I wouldn't say it holds as much now as has happened in the past but I would say England, or I dunno section of fans, especially pundits and or media have perhaps taken opponents or sides with multiple players flourishing in other top 5 or 6 Leagues a bit lightly, dismissed a bit easily whatever.

Kinda my view!

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Kibs

Kibs

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not exactly a positive post but an interesting take all the same.

I wouldn't say it holds as much now as has happened in the past but I would say England, or I dunno section of fans, especially pundits and or media have perhaps taken opponents or sides with multiple players flourishing in other top 5 or 6 Leagues a bit lightly, dismissed a bit easily whatever.

The headline doesn’t seem to reflect the comments of the European journalists? Every single one criticises Southgate. Talk about misleading.

“But yet again England have proven to be a collection of football stickers, star players, with no footballing empathy among each other”

“It’s heartbreaking to see England play with no clear idea, no pattern, no mechanism”

“Southgate’s tactical plans have made average players of stars”

“Jude Bellingham has looked sluggish for some time now. He gets carried away in dribbles and tackles in both penalty areas. A coach should give him a position and protect him from over-exploiting himself. Southgate has to put up with this criticism.”

“England have the roster to win the tournament, and being on the weaker side of the bracket could help. So far, though, they haven’t been able to find that spark that can unblock all their talent”

“England, on paper, are the best team of the Euros but they’ve yet to show it.”

“Southgate has been slow to find the right player there and the correct space for Foden and Bellingham, who can and should be compatible.”

“England play in the image of their coach. Gareth Southgate is a well-educated man, a true gentleman. Praise for that – there are sometimes too few in football. What I wonder is whether he can inspire his players, encourage them to give the very best of themselves.”

“The fact that caution has prevailed for as long as Southgate has been national coach is also reflected in the overall poor results of the England team”

 

 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Kibs said:

The headline doesn’t seem to reflect the comments of the European journalists? Every single one criticises Southgate. Talk about misleading.

“But yet again England have proven to be a collection of football stickers, star players, with no footballing empathy among each other”

“It’s heartbreaking to see England play with no clear idea, no pattern, no mechanism”

“Southgate’s tactical plans have made average players of stars”

“Jude Bellingham has looked sluggish for some time now. He gets carried away in dribbles and tackles in both penalty areas. A coach should give him a position and protect him from over-exploiting himself. Southgate has to put up with this criticism.”

“England have the roster to win the tournament, and being on the weaker side of the bracket could help. So far, though, they haven’t been able to find that spark that can unblock all their talent”

“England, on paper, are the best team of the Euros but they’ve yet to show it.”

“Southgate has been slow to find the right player there and the correct space for Foden and Bellingham, who can and should be compatible.”

“England play in the image of their coach. Gareth Southgate is a well-educated man, a true gentleman. Praise for that – there are sometimes too few in football. What I wonder is whether he can inspire his players, encourage them to give the very best of themselves.”

“The fact that caution has prevailed for as long as Southgate has been national coach is also reflected in the overall poor results of the England team”

 

 

Yeah I noticed only after posting and reading it albeit one did say we had a problem of inflated pectation or something.

I do think though it rings true, in the past perhaps we have been a bit quick to take lightly opposition who aren't stacked with PL players, I mean the media etc.

It feels a lifetime ago how due to Covid etc but I wonder if there was any of that v Croatia in 2018.

Otoh our line-up that came wasn't balanced then- theirs very much was- and we don't feel balanced now. That is on Southgate, I think it's a bit of both really.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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maxjak

maxjak

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

What did we get for getting to the final apart from a couple of quid 

Apart from an unlucky result i had a great day out at Wembley, and putting one over on Warlock during 2 excellent semi final legs against Palace was great entertainment? Can't please everyone I guess?

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

What did we get for getting to the final apart from a couple of quid 

Pride was restored.

We came up in 2006-07, I could be wrong as I wasn't an OTIB reader then but what were expectations that summer? I still had memories as we all did of 8 years in League One, finishing bottom and for chunks of the season conceding goals for fun in the 2nd tier.

The magic ran out in the final few months, maybe the final year but that 2.5 years was a hell of a journey- bottom of League One to one game from the PL. Not as if we spent loads either.

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, maxjak said:

Sorry ............but GJ was far more entertaining, AND he got us to a play off final.  Case Closed.

 

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

About as entertaining as Southgate’s England………….:cool2:

You didn't read that on the OS.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

There is an excellent line in there albeit I think it has been changing for the better.

"In midfield England traditionally have no culture of ball circulation".

We need to circulate the ball well and align it with strong pressing and move it relatively quickly but traditionally at club level it hasn't always been our strongest point.

Even technically and relatively risk averse not so much in the past.

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not exactly a positive post but an interesting take all the same.

I wouldn't say it holds as much now as has happened in the past but I would say England, or I dunno section of fans, especially pundits and or media have perhaps taken opponents or sides with multiple players flourishing in other top 5 or 6 Leagues a bit lightly, dismissed a bit easily whatever.

WTF has Brexit got to do with it! I don’t think entitlement or feelings of superiority has anything to do with it, people are just fed up of being shit and perpetual losers.

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Bris Red

Bris Red

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There is an excellent line in there albeit I think it has been changing for the better.

"In midfield England traditionally have no culture of ball circulation".

We need to circulate the ball well and align it with strong pressing and move it relatively quickly but traditionally at club level it hasn't always been our strongest point.

Even technically and relatively risk averse not so much in the past.

I do agree with this, since Paul Scholes (another one who was poorly used by the managers of the day namely Sven) we haven't produced yet a real world class ball playing midfielder, somebody who can take the ball off the back 3 or 4 on the half turn and knit things together. We don't want another powerhouse midfielder who can bomb on, we need a technical intelligent player that can give the platform for these types that we already have to play.

Declan Rice has reminded me so much of what we saw of Gerrard and Lampard at international level for years, players that just didn't/don't have the ability to take the ball in tight spaces under pressure and get a team tick. I suppose you can argue that isn't Rice's game or neither was it Gerrard or Lampards.

We so desperately need to develop a Modric type, maybe Mainoo or Wharton will be that man in the coming years for us. It's an area that like Gary Neville says has plauged our national team for so many years, even more so now the way the modern game is played.

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MarcusX

MarcusX

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not exactly a positive post but an interesting take all the same.

I wouldn't say it holds as much now as has happened in the past but I would say England, or I dunno section of fans, especially pundits and or media have perhaps taken opponents or sides with multiple players flourishing in other top 5 or 6 Leagues a bit lightly, dismissed a bit easily whatever.

I think the biggest problem with England and international football is we identify the best individual players, then worry about how we get them on the pitch rather than identifying a system and then selecting the best players in the country for that position. We also seem to neglect on field partnerships.

We play Rice at "number 6" when his club have identified that he plays better further up and needs a Jorginho next to him. We shoehorn Foden on the left because he's a great player despite that stifling him. We've got Saka on the right who plays well with an energetic and overlapping full back - then rely on Walker behind him. It would have been a very brave move to convince Ben White to come and put them together.

It's the same reason we've taken an unfit Shaw. If we're going to play Guehi, why not take his club left back Mitchell?

For all the talk of playing out from the back and through the lines, we seriously lack a player who can comfortably pick the ball up from the defence and do something with it other than go back again - but we also suffer from lack of movement further up the pitch. The reason we keep going sideways and backwards is because the front players dont move enough. Henderson was crucified for this for England, despite being able to play forward passes for Liverpool - and now Rice has fallen into the same trap, and even Trent fell foul of rarely playing anything forwards.

3 years ago today we beat Germany, watched the highlights this morning and cant understand how we've drifted so far from that style of play with wingers getting beyond Kane. Partly I suppose because we havent taken the players that were so good at it...

Edited by MarcusX
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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Bris Red said:

I do agree with this, since Paul Scholes (another one who was poorly used by the managers of the day namely Sven) we haven't produced yet a real world class ball playing midfielder, somebody who can take the ball off the back 3 or 4 on the half turn and knit things together. We don't want another powerhouse midfielder who can bomb on, we need a technical intelligent player that can give the platform for these types that we already have to play.

Declan Rice has reminded me so much of what we saw of Gerrard and Lampard at international level for years, players that just didn't/don't have the ability to take the ball in tight spaces under pressure and get a team tick. I suppose you can argue that isn't Rice's game or neither was it Gerrard or Lampards.

We so desperately need to develop a Modric type, maybe Mainoo or Wharton will be that man in the coming years for us. It's an area that like Gary Neville says has plauged our national team for so many years, even more so now the way the modern game is played.

Could a certain Alex Scott be the solution in years to come? Strong technically yet a carrier- if his injuries are fine and he truly flourishes.

Wharton looks very interesting, due to his meteoric rise vs age and experience. Mainoo was PL already.

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