George Earthy - Season-Long Loan - CONFIRMED

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

At least no one has claimed he's 'Eartha Kitt' yet..

I was waiting for the MDT!

[bcdc]

23 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I mostly borrow them. 

Stap me, Major, you nicked that from me!

[downendcity]

19 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

There’s got to be an Earth, Wind & Fire joke in there somewhere?

You'll have to wait 'till next month for that. 

 

[downendcity]

19 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

At least no one has claimed he's 'Eartha Kitt' yet..

Isn't that a set of gardening tools?

[Spike]

I'm really not happy about this move, I see these deals as a lose, lose. From my understanding West Ham have no interest in selling which means we get an amazing young talent but come the end of the season we're back looking for a 10 that we may have to develop after just giving a whole season of experience to a player we I never had a chance of signing. 

We already have Yu and whilst I'm not sure if there is a chance to sign him it just as annoys me when we're loaning in players without a view to buying them. 

If Yu and Earthy play most of the season when Yu is back then that's two full seasons of player experience used on them, only for them to return to their parent clubs. 

If we want our youth players to develop into first teamers then I see these loans as counter productive. If we can't sign an already established 10 then why not look to sign one who we can develop rather than signing a great talent who will just leave at the end of the season. 

With this I'm guessing Twine isn't happening which is hugely frustrating and should be addressed as to why to the fans because from our point of view we've missed out on a player we know suits us and can actually take a free kick which is something I've not seen at this club for years now. 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

43 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

People saying that West Ham would not want him coming here to be a back-up player but what is a back-up player now. With the amount of subs we can now use things have changed. Sincs and Fally could well share the 90 minute load for many games  with a 65/25 minutes split depending on need. They both have their roles and that could be true of a number 10 just as much. Twine/Earthy could be a similar split as could our wide men. A regular 20/25 minutes in Championship games would probably satisfy West Ham.

Not so sure about that. With the allegedly number of Championship teams and foreign teams in for him I expect that we would have to guarantee a certain amount of game time to secure the deal.

[downendcity]

32 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I mostly borrow them. 

As The Bard said, a plagiarism on both your houses Major, though I don't know where he got the quote from.

[Charlie0016]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm really not happy about this move, I see these deals as a lose, lose. From my understanding West Ham have no interest in selling which means we get an amazing young talent but come the end of the season we're back looking for a 10 that we may have to develop after just giving a whole season of experience to a player we I never had a chance of signing. 

We already have Yu and whilst I'm not sure if there is a chance to sign him it just as annoys me when we're loaning in players without a view to buying them. 

If Yu and Earthy play most of the season when Yu is back then that's two full seasons of player experience used on them, only for them to return to their parent clubs. 

If we want our youth players to develop into first teamers then I see these loans as counter productive. If we can't sign an already established 10 then why not look to sign one who we can develop rather than signing a great talent who will just leave at the end of the season. 

With this I'm guessing Twine isn't happening which is hugely frustrating and should be addressed as to why to the fans because from our point of view we've missed out on a player we know suits us and can actually take a free kick which is something I've not seen at this club for years now. 

Derby 2018-19 had a number of loans from prem teams ( mount being a standout) and look where that got them. 
cheer up for once spike 

[Selred]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm really not happy about this move, I see these deals as a lose, lose. From my understanding West Ham have no interest in selling which means we get an amazing young talent but come the end of the season we're back looking for a 10 that we may have to develop after just giving a whole season of experience to a player we I never had a chance of signing. 

We already have Yu and whilst I'm not sure if there is a chance to sign him it just as annoys me when we're loaning in players without a view to buying them. 

If Yu and Earthy play most of the season when Yu is back then that's two full seasons of player experience used on them, only for them to return to their parent clubs. 

If we want our youth players to develop into first teamers then I see these loans as counter productive. If we can't sign an already established 10 then why not look to sign one who we can develop rather than signing a great talent who will just leave at the end of the season. 

With this I'm guessing Twine isn't happening which is hugely frustrating and should be addressed as to why to the fans because from our point of view we've missed out on a player we know suits us and can actually take a free kick which is something I've not seen at this club for years now. 

We are signing Yu / have agreed a fee if we want too sign him I believe.

Earthy, we have no alternative 10s aside from Stokes, who clearly isn't thought as being Championship ready yet.

Who would you suggest we sign as an alternative to Twine / Earthy?

[RedEd73]

10 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm really not happy about this move, I see these deals as a lose, lose. From my understanding West Ham have no interest in selling which means we get an amazing young talent but come the end of the season we're back looking for a 10 that we may have to develop after just giving a whole season of experience to a player we I never had a chance of signing. 

We already have Yu and whilst I'm not sure if there is a chance to sign him it just as annoys me when we're loaning in players without a view to buying them. 

If Yu and Earthy play most of the season when Yu is back then that's two full seasons of player experience used on them, only for them to return to their parent clubs. 

If we want our youth players to develop into first teamers then I see these loans as counter productive. If we can't sign an already established 10 then why not look to sign one who we can develop rather than signing a great talent who will just leave at the end of the season. 

With this I'm guessing Twine isn't happening which is hugely frustrating and should be addressed as to why to the fans because from our point of view we've missed out on a player we know suits us and can actually take a free kick which is something I've not seen at this club for years now. 

If a loan was blocking the pathway for a youngster I'd agree, however this doesn't seem to be the case on this occasion.

We need a 10 who can play now. This lad might fit the bill. 

Think of it another way, we sign Twine (or A N Other), they have a blinder of a season and next summer we sell them (we have to given our position in the food chain). A 12 month loan for this lad is technically no different in that we would have to rebuild anyway. 

[Shauntaylor85]

Ian Gay is our ex WHU employee now. WHU employee gets loads right on X and has become a bit of a celebrity. Let’s see. 

[formerly known as ivan]

12 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm really not happy about this move, I see these deals as a lose, lose. From my understanding West Ham have no interest in selling which means we get an amazing young talent but come the end of the season we're back looking for a 10 that we may have to develop after just giving a whole season of experience to a player we I never had a chance of signing. 

We already have Yu and whilst I'm not sure if there is a chance to sign him it just as annoys me when we're loaning in players without a view to buying them. 

If Yu and Earthy play most of the season when Yu is back then that's two full seasons of player experience used on them, only for them to return to their parent clubs. 

If we want our youth players to develop into first teamers then I see these loans as counter productive. If we can't sign an already established 10 then why not look to sign one who we can develop rather than signing a great talent who will just leave at the end of the season. 

With this I'm guessing Twine isn't happening which is hugely frustrating and should be addressed as to why to the fans because from our point of view we've missed out on a player we know suits us and can actually take a free kick which is something I've not seen at this club for years now. 

I bet you were gutted at having to watch Tammy whilst he was here on loan for a season!

[cotswoldred2]

1 hour ago, Redtucks said:

Would love to know how some on here get their opinions.

 

Seriously?

[Shauntaylor85]

A lot of West Ham fans I’ve spoken to expected Earthy to be in contention this year. They think he will explode on the scene. He’s an exciting player. 

[Kashmir]

11 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm really not happy about this move, I see these deals as a lose, lose. From my understanding West Ham have no interest in selling which means we get an amazing young talent but come the end of the season we're back looking for a 10 that we may have to develop after just giving a whole season of experience to a player we I never had a chance of signing. 

We already have Yu and whilst I'm not sure if there is a chance to sign him it just as annoys me when we're loaning in players without a view to buying them. 

If Yu and Earthy play most of the season when Yu is back then that's two full seasons of player experience used on them, only for them to return to their parent clubs. 

If we want our youth players to develop into first teamers then I see these loans as counter productive. If we can't sign an already established 10 then why not look to sign one who we can develop rather than signing a great talent who will just leave at the end of the season. 

With this I'm guessing Twine isn't happening which is hugely frustrating and should be addressed as to why to the fans because from our point of view we've missed out on a player we know suits us and can actually take a free kick which is something I've not seen at this club for years now. 

The deal last season to loan Twine with no option to buy wasn’t a good one, however, this is different. 

This is a player rated highly by West Ham, as we have little cover in that area then I’m all for it. I’m excited to see him develop and hopefully have a great season in the championship, this will reflect well on Bristol City and show premier league clubs we look after their players should we need them.
 

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

A lot of West Ham fans I’ve spoken to expected Earthy to be in contention this year. They think he will explode on the scene. He’s an exciting player. 

This is the type of player ww should have brought in last summer after Scott left. Rather than trying to claim Knight was his replacement. 

[Spike]

5 minutes ago, Selred said:

We are signing Yu / have agreed a fee if we want too sign him I believe.

This is the bit I was unsure of and if it is the case then I'm all for it as it works for us. 

5 minutes ago, Selred said:

Earthy, we have no alternative 10s aside from Stokes, who clearly isn't thought as being Championship ready yet.

Who would you suggest we sign as an alternative to Twine / Earthy?

 

Just now, RedEd73 said:

If a loan was blocking the pathway for a youngster I'd agree, however this doesn't seem to be the case on this occasion.

We need a 10 who can play now. This lad might fit the bill. 

Think of it another way, we sign Twine (or A N Other), they have a blinder of a season and next summer we sell them (we have to given our position in the food chain). A 12 month loan for this lad is technically no different in that we would have to rebuild anyway. 

I get what you're both saying but for me, if we're not looking like a steering play off contender then having an inexperienced 10 on a long contract with potential is better to play than an experienced one who we have no chance of making a permanent addition to the squad. 

We currently have Benarous so I'd be looking to loan an up and coming 10 with an option to buy, or taking a gamble on a permanent transfer of a young up and coming player. I just do not see any benefits to ending mid table having given a whole season of vital experience to a player who is not and will never be ours. 

 

 

[Monkeh]

19 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm really not happy about this move, I see these deals as a lose, lose. From my understanding West Ham have no interest in selling which means we get an amazing young talent but come the end of the season we're back looking for a 10 that we may have to develop after just giving a whole season of experience to a player we I never had a chance of signing. 

We already have Yu and whilst I'm not sure if there is a chance to sign him it just as annoys me when we're loaning in players without a view to buying them. 

If Yu and Earthy play most of the season when Yu is back then that's two full seasons of player experience used on them, only for them to return to their parent clubs. 

If we want our youth players to develop into first teamers then I see these loans as counter productive. If we can't sign an already established 10 then why not look to sign one who we can develop rather than signing a great talent who will just leave at the end of the season. 

With this I'm guessing Twine isn't happening which is hugely frustrating and should be addressed as to why to the fans because from our point of view we've missed out on a player we know suits us and can actually take a free kick which is something I've not seen at this club for years now. 

So what do you suggest?

Not sign anyone?

[Spike]

Just now, Monkeh said:

So what do you suggest?

Not sign anyone?

See above

[italian dave]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

This is the bit I was unsure of and if it is the case then I'm all for it as it works for us. 

 

I get what you're both saying but for me, if we're not looking like a steering play off contender then having an inexperienced 10 on a long contract with potential is better to play than an experienced one who we have no chance of making a permanent addition to the squad. 

We currently have Benarous so I'd be looking to loan an up and coming 10 with an option to buy, or taking a gamble on a permanent transfer of a young up and coming player. I just do not see any benefits to ending mid table having given a whole season of vital experience to a player who is not and will never be ours. 

 

 

All of which assumes, like several other posts on here, that shopping for players is like buying beans at Tesco! We might have tried that too, we might have preferred that, but maybe the right options weren’t available, didn’t come to fruition, whatever. And I assume that we’re doing whatever we’re doing with an ambition that’s a bit beyond mid table. (Not to say that isn’t where we’ll end of course!)

[Bcfc24]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I’m excited by Earthy, but that excitement dampened a bit that we are still in for Twine.

You really hate Twine don’t you

[KegCity]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

This is the bit I was unsure of and if it is the case then I'm all for it as it works for us. 

 

I get what you're both saying but for me, if we're not looking like a steering play off contender then having an inexperienced 10 on a long contract with potential is better to play than an experienced one who we have no chance of making a permanent addition to the squad. 

We currently have Benarous so I'd be looking to loan an up and coming 10 with an option to buy, or taking a gamble on a permanent transfer of a young up and coming player. I just do not see any benefits to ending mid table having given a whole season of vital experience to a player who is not and will never be ours. 

 

 

The right signing could push us into the top 6. We're solid defensively and just need things to click in the final third.

Whether Earthy is that player remains to be seen, but as a fan I'd rather see us go for it, within our means, rather than just tread water developing players and selling them on whilst floating around mid-table. If Earthy, Twine, or whoever else come in and have us scoring more goals I'm happy.

[Monkeh]

9 minutes ago, Spike said:

This is the bit I was unsure of and if it is the case then I'm all for it as it works for us. 

 

I get what you're both saying but for me, if we're not looking like a steering play off contender then having an inexperienced 10 on a long contract with potential is better to play than an experienced one who we have no chance of making a permanent addition to the squad. 

We currently have Benarous so I'd be looking to loan an up and coming 10 with an option to buy, or taking a gamble on a permanent transfer of a young up and coming player. I just do not see any benefits to ending mid table having given a whole season of vital experience to a player who is not and will never be ours. 

 

 

So loaning an up and comer like Earthy 

[Spike]

7 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

I bet you were gutted at having to watch Tammy whilst he was here on loan for a season!

At what point have I said I don't like watching good talent, so let me take what you've said and put a few questions to you.

Did that signing help us at all?

He scored goals but did we get promoted? 

Have we signed any talented strikers from the Premier League due to them seeing how Tammy did? 

Have we signed any young talents due to Tammys loan? 

The idea that players enjoying their loans here opens up doors has an air of truth but it doesn't last that long as clubs change so frequently. The club that loaned Tammy is a whole different staff at this point and so no player looks at us and says "he has a great time I like the sound of that move". The players that say Pearson may have loaned in won't look at this club the same way as they may have back then. Club staff turn over is so high in all of football that by the time we're looking for another loanee the previous ones have no impact because the staff has changed and the direction of the club has changed with it. 

Just look at when Pearson was here and how many youth players he was trying and pushing in, Mannning is using those players but how many new ones have been given a chance? 

 

[JBFC II]

9 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is the type of player ww should have brought in last summer after Scott left. Rather than trying to claim Knight was his replacement. 

I'm not sure. 

I genuinely believe the right player in that '10' role could be the difference between us being mid table and being contenders for the play offs.

Last season, even with that sort of player, we weren't close to challenging in the top 6. 

Loans can be great assets to fill a gap which will take the side to the next level, Earthy this summer can do that. Last year this sort of loan wouldn't have been enough

[Scrumpty]

1 hour ago, davidoldfart said:

 

Looks like this 19 yr old is on £1200 per week, so probably enough headroom for another signing , if Conway leaves

I would be absolutely astonished if a 19 year premiership player, with (limited) premiership experience, is only on £1.2K a week. Add a nought, then some.

[George Rs]

22 minutes ago, Charlie0016 said:

Derby 2018-19 had a number of loans from prem teams ( mount being a standout) and look where that got them. 
cheer up for once spike 

No promotion and in a financial black hole? 

(Don’t agree with spike but that’s an awful example to use ) 

[Jose]

1 minute ago, George Rs said:

No promotion and in a financial black hole? 

(Don’t agree with spike but that’s an awful example to use ) 

And relegated a few years later. I’ve seen better examples used. 

[JBFC II]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

At what point have I said I don't like watching good talent, so let me take what you've said and put a few questions to you.

Did that signing help us at all?

He scored goals but did we get promoted? 

Have we signed any talented strikers from the Premier League due to them seeing how Tammy did? 

Have we signed any young talents due to Tammys loan? 

The idea that players enjoying their loans here opens up doors has an air of truth but it doesn't last that long as clubs change so frequently. The club that loaned Tammy is a whole different staff at this point and so no player looks at us and says "he has a great time I like the sound of that move". The players that say Pearson may have loaned in won't look at this club the same way as they may have back then. Club staff turn over is so high in all of football that by the time we're looking for another loanee the previous ones have no impact because the staff has changed and the direction of the club has changed with it. 

Just look at when Pearson was here and how many youth players he was trying and pushing in, Mannning is using those players but how many new ones have been given a chance? 

 

Considering his goals won us 11 points and we only finished 3 off relegation, I think you could argue that without him we may well have headed straight back down

[Rudolf Hucker]

56 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

At least no one has claimed he's 'Eartha Kitt' yet..

 

11 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

I’m going to get a City shirt with his name on it. Always fancied Earthy Kitt. 

Sorry Rog …

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, KegCity said:

The right signing could push us into the top 6. We're solid defensively and just need things to click in the final third.

Whether Earthy is that player remains to be seen, but as a fan I'd rather see us go for it, within our means, rather than just tread water developing players and selling them on whilst floating around mid-table. If Earthy, Twine, or whoever else come in and have us scoring more goals I'm happy.

It could, it also is far more likely that it won't. Defensivly, based on the Hull game, I disagree with you on our strength in defence. Last season we played a sentencing game, based on Hull we are looking to push forward more and that is why Hull had so many good chances. The only reason we didn't concede was due to Hulls poor finishing and Max making some fantastic saves. Watch that match back and tell me that we aren't fortunate not to have conceded. If anything I think our biggest strength that game was our aggressive nature to win the ball back and keep hold of the ball, it forced Hull to become frustrated and when they did get the ball and counter us we looked competent on defence, but not so much so that they didn't have multiple key opportunities to score, and in fairness really should have. The Hull game was a game of two teams who couldn't finish their dinner. 

Just now, Monkeh said:

So loaning an up and comer like Earthy 

Ok I'll reply one more time if you're not going to read my posts before my questions I've already answered. 

I said that under my understanding West Ham are not looking to sell, only to develop, so no, not like Earthy as we gain nothing but a single season with the ultimate problem of no number 10 just being added to the next preseason to sort out on top of anything else that comes up sorting the season. 

As I said before, I'd take a young and upcoming player so long as there is a deal to make it permanent, if the Earthy deal turns into that then I'm all very much for it but without that loan to buy option I don't see any gain for us. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Nottingham Forest loans helped to carry them over the line.

Aston Villa won the playoffs with Tammy, El Ghazi among others. Mings too at the back.

I think one or two loanees to ice the cake is fine, to excess you have an issue.

[downendcity]

17 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm really not happy about this move, I see these deals as a lose, lose. From my understanding West Ham have no interest in selling which means we get an amazing young talent but come the end of the season we're back looking for a 10 that we may have to develop after just giving a whole season of experience to a player we I never had a chance of signing. 

We already have Yu and whilst I'm not sure if there is a chance to sign him it just as annoys me when we're loaning in players without a view to buying them. 

If Yu and Earthy play most of the season when Yu is back then that's two full seasons of player experience used on them, only for them to return to their parent clubs. 

If we want our youth players to develop into first teamers then I see these loans as counter productive. If we can't sign an already established 10 then why not look to sign one who we can develop rather than signing a great talent who will just leave at the end of the season. 

With this I'm guessing Twine isn't happening which is hugely frustrating and should be addressed as to why to the fans because from our point of view we've missed out on a player we know suits us and can actually take a free kick which is something I've not seen at this club for years now. 

Re. Twine suiting us. I don't know about others, but I felt that his loan spell here was a bit underwhelming, although it could be with other signings we've made he could be a better fit. 

While loans might be seen as counter productive for our younger players, didn't Kalas and Dasilva come initially on loan, but that doesn't seem to have hampered the development of Pring and Vyner. Also regarding loan players, had we not gone for Earthy and he went on loan to one of our rivals, has a storming season securing a play off place or automatic promotion then you can guarantee that OTIB would be overflowing with posts criticising the club for not having the right contacts, that clubs don't want to send their players here, players don't want to play for Manning as he's not a big name coach etc. etc.

As for making a permanent signing of a player that we can develop, from all I read on here the fabled " number 10" role is seen as pivotal to the team's success.Accordingly, if this player we are going to develop doesn't hit the ground running and the team misfires as a result, how long would it be before  the posts appear criticising the club for not going for Earthy when we had the chance - Earthy, of course, would by then be tearing it up for whichever championship team he did sign for?

If the number 10 role is as vital as many seem to think, then Manning will want the best/right man for it. It seemed that Twine was his choice, but my guess is that for whatever reason there is an issue with that transfer. If so, then the last thing he'd want is to be get to the end of the transfer window and be left high and dry with no one and OTIB would be in meltdown! Earthy appears to be in high demand and highly thought of at WHam, so if we have been able to get him against the competition I reckon it's a good job.

I now anticipate the City effect kicking in and him being stretchered off 20 minutes into his debut!

 

[chinapig]

31 minutes ago, downendcity said:

As The Bard said, a plagiarism on both your houses Major, though I don't know where he got the quote from.

Plagiarize!
Let no one else's work evade your eyes
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes
So don't shade your eyes
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize.

Only be sure always to call it please "research"

From Tom Lehrer's song Lobachevsky.

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

Re. Twine suiting us. I don't know about others, but I felt that his loan spell here was a bit underwhelming, although it could be with other signings we've made he could be a better fit. 

While loans might be seen as counter productive for our younger players, didn't Kalas and Dasilva come initially on loan, but that doesn't seem to have hampered the development of Pring and Vyner. Also regarding loan players, had we not gone for Earthy and he went on loan to one of our rivals, has a storming season securing a play off place or automatic promotion then you can guarantee that OTIB would be overflowing with posts criticising the club for not having the right contacts, that clubs don't want to send their players here, players don't want to play for Manning as he's not a big name coach etc. etc.

As for making a permanent signing of a player that we can develop, from all I read on here the fabled " number 10" role is seen as pivotal to the team's success.Accordingly, if this player we are going to develop doesn't hit the ground running and the team misfires as a result, how long would it be before  the posts appear criticising the club for not going for Earthy when we had the chance - Earthy, of course, would by then be tearing it up for whichever championship team he did sign for?

If the number 10 role is as vital as many seem to think, then Manning will want the best/right man for it. It seemed that Twine was his choice, but my guess is that for whatever reason there is an issue with that transfer. If so, then the last thing he'd want is to be get to the end of the transfer window and be left high and dry with no one and OTIB would be in meltdown! Earthy appears to be in high demand and highly thought of at WHam, so if we have been able to get him against the competition I reckon it's a good job.

I now anticipate the City effect kicking in and him being stretchered off 20 minutes into his debut!

 

Well he did get stretchered off in his premier league debut after a few minutes.

He’s got previous 

[Mr Popodopolous]

33 minutes ago, Charlie0016 said:

Derby 2018-19 had a number of loans from prem teams ( mount being a standout) and look where that got them. 
cheer up for once spike 

Play off final which they lost, stretching finances to the limit and a combination of factors led to near bankruptcy.

Only side in history to fail FFP and go into Administration simultaneously.

Edited August 13 by Mr Popodopolous

[downendcity]

1 minute ago, Back of the Dolman said:

Well he did get stretchered off in his premier league debut after a few minutes.

He’s got previous 

Obviously a perfect fit for us!

[W-S-M Seagull]

13 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I'm not sure. 

I genuinely believe the right player in that '10' role could be the difference between us being mid table and being contenders for the play offs.

Last season, even with that sort of player, we weren't close to challenging in the top 6. 

Loans can be great assets to fill a gap which will take the side to the next level, Earthy this summer can do that. Last year this sort of loan wouldn't have been enough

I'm not sure I did suggest he would have made the difference last season. 

For whatever reason the club are happy to spend this summer but not last summer. 

What makes you think that we've taken a significant step forward so that a player like Earthy can make the difference? 

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Considering his goals won us 11 points and we only finished 3 off relegation, I think you could argue that without him we may well have headed straight back down

And you could argue that another player may have complemented us better and the goals may have come from more of the others players. 

I love Tammy, great player, but we're not discussing him, or at least I'm not, I'm discussing the after him affects. Did we gain anything after he left? Have we drawn in other strikers because he enjoyed his time here, did we create any connections with Chelsea that helped us with deals etc

Tammy was amazing, but we had him for one season and he's gone. We won't fight relegation this season even if we played Benarous in the 10 role for every game so my point is we should be looking at permanent deals, not loans that cannot be turned into that as that doesn't benefit us. 

If Earthy comes here, has a great season and we don't make the play offs then it's been a wasted move for us and we'll have to fill that hole again and may have other key areas to fill. 

Like I said before, I love watching talented players, but not as much as I hate seeing them Keane knowing there was nothing we could do about it, just like Twine. I'm not sure if Twine was loan to buy but it certainly wasn't with an agreed price if it was, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. 

[bcfcredandwhite]

It’s in the Evil Post……

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-west-ham-twine-9478039?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3F51HL1PoK-w3qL95bJ66HmucKPxQEI4MiBSVMbOCPHppAPnLpJ66M8dU_aem_eVXw1RIj47wA71HhXxuoZw#lzsc2xahxhrgxi0uicr

[DT The Optimist]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

As I said before, I'd take a young and upcoming player so long as there is a deal to make it permanent, if the Earthy deal turns into that then I'm all very much for it but without that loan to buy option I don't see any gain for us. 

No gain for us? Cast your mind back to Tammy… we never ever had a chance to get him long term and that panned out pretty well…

Who knows if the Twine saga is over….for the time being… but the gain we have would appear to be a ‘diamond’ who want to come here and play… yes please

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Roger Red Hat said:

At least no one has claimed he's 'Eartha Kitt' yet..

They've gone to ground.

I'll get my coat, even though it's 30 degrees outside!

 

[BobBobBobbin]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

And you could argue that another player may have complemented us better and the goals may have come from more of the others players. 

I love Tammy, great player, but we're not discussing him, or at least I'm not, I'm discussing the after him affects. Did we gain anything after he left? Have we drawn in other strikers because he enjoyed his time here, did we create any connections with Chelsea that helped us with deals etc

Tammy was amazing, but we had him for one season and he's gone. We won't fight relegation this season even if we played Benarous in the 10 role for every game so my point is we should be looking at permanent deals, not loans that cannot be turned into that as that doesn't benefit us. 

If Earthy comes here, has a great season and we don't make the play offs then it's been a wasted move for us and we'll have to fill that hole again and may have other key areas to fill. 

Like I said before, I love watching talented players, but not as much as I hate seeing them Keane knowing there was nothing we could do about it, just like Twine. I'm not sure if Twine was loan to buy but it certainly wasn't with an agreed price if it was, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. 

well, evidently yes?! Kalas, Dasilva and Palmer. 

[downendcity]

Just now, BobBobBobbin said:

well, evidently yes?! Kalas, Dasilva and Palmer. 

...and Tammy.

[Loco Rojo]

Oh god! Is this going to be another hundred-pager?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, BobBobBobbin said:

well, evidently yes?! Kalas, Dasilva and Palmer. 

Mixed blessings at best albeit the first 2 fully fit were rather good.

Palmer lost all effectiveness post the Afobe injury. Had the odd moment but as a team, as a collective it didn't work.

[BobBobBobbin]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Mixed blessings at best albeit the first 2 fully fit were rather good.

Palmer lost all effectiveness post the Afobe injury. Had the odd moment but as a team, as a collective it didn't work.

Yeah, but that wasn't the point I was responding to!

 

[Major Isewater]

The upside is that if he’s as good as he’s hyped up to be our players will see up close the level they need to be at. 
 

[KegCity]

11 minutes ago, Spike said:

It could, it also is far more likely that it won't. Defensivly, based on the Hull game, I disagree with you on our strength in defence. Last season we played a sentencing game, based on Hull we are looking to push forward more and that is why Hull had so many good chances. The only reason we didn't concede was due to Hulls poor finishing and Max making some fantastic saves. Watch that match back and tell me that we aren't fortunate not to have conceded. If anything I think our biggest strength that game was our aggressive nature to win the ball back and keep hold of the ball, it forced Hull to become frustrated and when they did get the ball and counter us we looked competent on defence, but not so much so that they didn't have multiple key opportunities to score, and in fairness really should have. The Hull game was a game of two teams who couldn't finish their dinner. 

What a miserable way of viewing football. 

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is the type of player ww should have brought in last summer after Scott left. Rather than trying to claim Knight was his replacement. 

Nobody claimed that.  Knight was bought to play with Scott.  Nige hoped he could get Scott to stay one more season.  He couldn’t unfortunately.  They played together preseason, and looked really good.

12 minutes ago, Bcfc24 said:

You really hate Twine don’t you

No, I don’t, why do you think that?  Ridiculous comment.

Is it because I think we’ve made a mess of trying to sign him over 8 months?  That’s zero to do with the players ability.

Been a fan of Twine since the preseason I saw him play for Swindon against Coventry before he went on loan to Newport.

Always wanted us to take him, especially at £250k.

From what I’ve seen of Twine in a City shirt under Manning I don’t think he’s the “difference maker” lots of fans think he is, or Manning does for that matter.  So I actually agree with City’s lower valuation limit of him, not Burnley’s.  But as Burnley aren’t selling at City’s valuation, where does that leave us?

Why do some OTIBers find it so hard to see the difference nuances of a debate / opinion within a broader topic?

 

[Jose]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Mixed blessings at best albeit the first 2 fully fit were rather good.

Palmer lost all effectiveness post the Afobe injury. Had the odd moment but as a team, as a collective it didn't work.

You could argue all were pretty big failures here. 

[JBFC II]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not sure I did suggest he would have made the difference last season. 

For whatever reason the club are happy to spend this summer but not last summer. 

What makes you think that we've taken a significant step forward so that a player like Earthy can make the difference? 

Well, we have way more options in forward positions. Mayulu and Armstrong are clear upgrades on Conway, Wells and Cornick. The addition of a top class player in behind the striker could be the missing piece of the jigsaw.

I presume the club see us as being close to the play offs right now, whereas we weren't last summer. A loan could make the difference there, and it can be financed by the sale of Conway

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Jose said:

You could argue all were pretty big failures here. 

I'm on the fence a bit.

DaSilva post injury just wasn't the same. He literally post permanent got injured after Day 1 for half a season. Kalas didn't he get injured quite early. (Likewise Nagy 1.5 games in). Korey had rolling injuries.

I digress.

Palmer behind Weimann and Afobe was coming together nicely (IMO).

Palmer behind Weimann in a different set-up may have revived matters but it didn't materialise.

[BobBobBobbin]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nobody claimed that.  Knight was bought to play with Scott.  Nige hoped he could get Scott to stay one more season.  He couldn’t unfortunately.  They played together preseason, and looked really good.

No, I don’t, why do you think that?  Ridiculous comment.

Is it because I think we’ve made a mess of trying to sign him over 8 months?  That’s zero to do with the players ability.

Been a fan of Twine since the preseason I saw him play for Swindon against Coventry before he went on loan to Newport.

Always wanted us to take him, especially at £250k.

From what I’ve seen of Twine in a City shirt under Manning I don’t think he’s the “difference maker” lots of fans think he is, or Manning does for that matter.  So I actually agree with City’s lower valuation limit of him, not Burnley’s.  But as Burnley aren’t selling at City’s valuation, where does that leave us?

Why do some OTIBers find it so hard to see the difference nuances of a debate / opinion within a broader topic?

 

EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE, RIGHT OR WRONG. FALL ON ONE SIDE AND STAY THERE FOREVER. 

IDIOT. 

 

[downendcity]

1 minute ago, DT The Optimist said:

No gain for us? Cast your mind back to Tammy… we never ever had a chance to get him long term and that panned out pretty well…

Who knows if the Twine saga is over….for the time being… but the gain we have would appear to be a ‘diamond’ who want to come here and play… yes please

It seems to me that whatever option the club takes, in the eyes of some fans it's always the wrong one.

If we stumped up for Twine , which many criticised the club for not doing, and Twine flopped, then you can bet the criticism would be that the club made a mistake for not getting the highly rated WHam loanee in, who has been starring for whichever championship club he did go for.

If this lad is the difference between us fighting for 9th/10th/11th or competing for the play off places, does it really matter that he's a loanee who will return to WHam at the end of the season? 

 

[JBFC II]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

And you could argue that another player may have complemented us better and the goals may have come from more of the others players. 

I love Tammy, great player, but we're not discussing him, or at least I'm not, I'm discussing the after him affects. Did we gain anything after he left? Have we drawn in other strikers because he enjoyed his time here, did we create any connections with Chelsea that helped us with deals etc

Tammy was amazing, but we had him for one season and he's gone. We won't fight relegation this season even if we played Benarous in the 10 role for every game so my point is we should be looking at permanent deals, not loans that cannot be turned into that as that doesn't benefit us. 

If Earthy comes here, has a great season and we don't make the play offs then it's been a wasted move for us and we'll have to fill that hole again and may have other key areas to fill. 

Like I said before, I love watching talented players, but not as much as I hate seeing them Keane knowing there was nothing we could do about it, just like Twine. I'm not sure if Twine was loan to buy but it certainly wasn't with an agreed price if it was, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. 

You could, but that's a lot of whataboutery. Point is, Tammy came in on loan and kept us in the Championship. A good loan does something along those lines. 

Earthy could be the difference between an 11th and 6th placed finish, the margins are very fine. Maybe he won't, but if he is then the loan is a success. 

I agree that loans can lack benefit, but that is very situational. Tammy is the perfect example of a loan that had huge benefit, and shows that, when used correctly, the loan system is a great place to push a side into the next stage of the table.

We clearly did create connections with Chelsea, as has already been mentioned. Whether those connections helped us is another question entirely!

[Red-Robbo]

Could be a very exciting loan. Caulker and Tammy saved seasons for us. Now we're a slightly more of a stable prospect, perhaps Earthy will propel us into orbit.  (sorry)

[BobBobBobbin]

1 minute ago, JBFC II said:

You could, but that's a lot of whataboutery. Point is, Tammy came in on loan and kept us in the Championship. A good loan does something along those lines. 

Earthy could be the difference between an 11th and 6th placed finish, the margins are very fine. Maybe he won't, but if he is then the loan is a success. 

I agree that loans can lack benefit, but that is very situational. Tammy is the perfect example of a loan that had huge benefit, and shows that, when used correctly, the loan system is a great place to push a side into the next stage of the table.

We clearly did create connections with Chelsea, as has already been mentioned. Whether those connections helped us is another question entirely!

The flip side is, and this is all hypothetical, We spend on Twine, get promoted and are stuck with a player who's ceiling is the championship. 

A short term loan could open the door to better players next summer. It doesn't have to be negative. 

[sephjnr]

13 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

We should move heaven and earthy to get this done. 

A Sun writer's dream - "Earthy, on a windy day in September with a fiery mood."

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Well, we have way more options in forward positions. Mayulu and Armstrong are clear upgrades on Conway, Wells and Cornick. The addition of a top class player in behind the striker could be the missing piece of the jigsaw.

I presume the club see us as being close to the play offs right now, whereas we weren't last summer. A loan could make the difference there, and it can be financed by the sale of Conway

I'm gonna need to take about 10 games before I can decide if we are stronger, weaker or about the same. 

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, BobBobBobbin said:

The flip side is, and this is all hypothetical, We spend on Twine, get promoted and are stuck with a player who's ceiling is the championship. 

A short term loan could open the door to better players next summer. It doesn't have to be negative. 

I see that, but then if we were to come straight back down we have a player in Twine who we wouldn't need to sell and is a good asset at this level.

There's arguments for and against both ways of doing things, I'd say anyone totally writing off either is perhaps not seeing the bigger picture.

As I've said before, a positive loan can be hugely beneficial for a side (like us) who aren't far away from reaching the next level in the division

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Spike said:

It could, it also is far more likely that it won't. Defensivly, based on the Hull game, I disagree with you on our strength in defence. Last season we played a sentencing game, based on Hull we are looking to push forward more and that is why Hull had so many good chances. The only reason we didn't concede was due to Hulls poor finishing and Max making some fantastic saves. Watch that match back and tell me that we aren't fortunate not to have conceded. If anything I think our biggest strength that game was our aggressive nature to win the ball back and keep hold of the ball, it forced Hull to become frustrated and when they did get the ball and counter us we looked competent on defence, but not so much so that they didn't have multiple key opportunities to score, and in fairness really should have. The Hull game was a game of two teams who couldn't finish their dinner. 

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

What a miserable way of viewing football. 

Maybe, but a lot of very good observations from Spike, whether you agree with them or not!  There seems to be a view (generalisation) that it was just a game of missed chances / missed opportunities to create chances, all on City.  But that’s a very one-sided view of the whole 90 (plus injury time)…and doesn’t give Hull any credit for some of the problems they caused us too, regardless of when in the game they happened.  We were not as good defensively on Saturday as we were most of the time last season.  In creating new shapes / patterns we created some exposures too.  Down the side of Dickie for example because of Pring’s high positioning and Mehmeti inverting.

But, it’s just one game.  We should be looking at trends over the next half a dozen games.  Is this now the new-City-way, or just a bit of rustiness, etc.

But that space behind our left-back is something to keep an eye on, because it was there v Willem too.

Adding something somewhere can often mean losing something somewhere else.  Especially if you don’t have the best players in the league.

I think there were some encouraging signs though, overall pribsbly a bit more in the column than the column.

I really hope that it’s just a missing no10 as the final piece of the jigsaw.

[LondonBristolian]

My one concern/frustration in all of this is the idea - which has admittedly come from here and not the reporting - of Stokes going off on loan. There's an element of being burnt by past experiences but I'm not a fan of signing players from the lower leagues and immediately farming them off on loan. I think the only way players get good enough for this level is to play at this level. 

[Sir Geoff]

46 minutes ago, Spike said:

This is the bit I was unsure of and if it is the case then I'm all for it as it works for us. 

 

I get what you're both saying but for me, if we're not looking like a steering play off contender then having an inexperienced 10 on a long contract with potential is better to play than an experienced one who we have no chance of making a permanent addition to the squad. 

We currently have Benarous so I'd be looking to loan an up and coming 10 with an option to buy, or taking a gamble on a permanent transfer of a young up and coming player. I just do not see any benefits to ending mid table having given a whole season of vital experience to a player who is not and will never be ours. 

 

 

Stokes ?

[formerly known as ivan]

37 minutes ago, Spike said:

At what point have I said I don't like watching good talent, so let me take what you've said and put a few questions to you.

Did that signing help us at all?

He scored goals but did we get promoted? 

Have we signed any talented strikers from the Premier League due to them seeing how Tammy did? 

Have we signed any young talents due to Tammys loan? 

The idea that players enjoying their loans here opens up doors has an air of truth but it doesn't last that long as clubs change so frequently. The club that loaned Tammy is a whole different staff at this point and so no player looks at us and says "he has a great time I like the sound of that move". The players that say Pearson may have loaned in won't look at this club the same way as they may have back then. Club staff turn over is so high in all of football that by the time we're looking for another loanee the previous ones have no impact because the staff has changed and the direction of the club has changed with it. 

Just look at when Pearson was here and how many youth players he was trying and pushing in, Mannning is using those players but how many new ones have been given a chance? 

 

I don’t think Twine will make the difference between promotion or not. Maybe 10th place instead of 12th.

If we get this lad on loan and he is as good as west ham fans say he is, just enjoy watching him while he is here.

It could be the platform needed to keep progressing and building.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Well, we have way more options in forward positions. Mayulu and Armstrong are clear upgrades on Conway, Wells and Cornick. The addition of a top class player in behind the striker could be the missing piece of the jigsaw.

I presume the club see us as being close to the play offs right now, whereas we weren't last summer. A loan could make the difference there, and it can be financed by the sale of Conway

That’s a big reach after one competitive game!  I like them both btw.

10 minutes ago, downendcity said:

It seems to me that whatever option the club takes, in the eyes of some fans it's always the wrong one.

If we stumped up for Twine , which many criticised the club for not doing, and Twine flopped, then you can bet the criticism would be that the club made a mistake for not getting the highly rated WHam loanee in, who has been starring for whichever championship club he did go for.

If this lad is the difference between us fighting for 9th/10th/11th or competing for the play off places, does it really matter that he's a loanee who will return to WHam at the end of the season? 

 

It appears we want both though.

I may have a strange view on this, but I only want one of them, I don’t care which one.  But I don’t want both.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Well, we have way more options in forward positions. Mayulu and Armstrong are clear upgrades on Conway, Wells and Cornick. The addition of a top class player in behind the striker could be the missing piece of the jigsaw.

I presume the club see us as being close to the play offs right now, whereas we weren't last summer. A loan could make the difference there, and it can be financed by the sale of Conway

Clear upgrades are you sure? Clearly there is strong potential and both have shown some good things.

I am intrigued and excited by some of the business let's wait and see eh.

We don't need to sell Conway to finance it under FFP, subject to SL's whims.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

My one concern/frustration in all of this is the idea - which has admittedly come from here and not the reporting - of Stokes going off on loan. There's an element of being burnt by past experiences but I'm not a fan of signing players from the lower leagues and immediately farming them off on loan. I think the only way players get good enough for this level is to play at this level and / or trains at this level.

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Clear upgrades are you sure? Clearly there is strong potential and both have shown some good things.

I am intrigued and excited by some of the business let's wait and see eh.

We don't need to sell Conway to finance it under FFP, subject to SL's whims.

Time will tell, but they both offered an awful lot more around the park than Conway has done in the past on Saturday.

Very different types of strikers, but if we want to play with one up front I'd rather it was an Armstrong/Mayulu who can remain a constant presence for 60+ minutes

[BobBobBobbin]

2 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I see that, but then if we were to come straight back down we have a player in Twine who we wouldn't need to sell and is a good asset at this level.

There's arguments for and against both ways of doing things, I'd say anyone totally writing off either is perhaps not seeing the bigger picture.

As I've said before, a positive loan can be hugely beneficial for a side (like us) who aren't far away from reaching the next level in the division

Yes, a million different scenarios that could play out, none of which will be known until after the fact. 

If it's in budget and we have a plan for the lad that's enough for now. Assessing the transfer/loan can't really happen until we've seen us play a fair few games. 

The best thing about football is that there is no correct way to do things. Watford, Leicester, Ipswich and countless others have had success with loans, others have found success building their own. Brentford, Swansea and Brighton utilised the foreign markets well. 

As long as the Cat gets skinned, I don't care if we use a surgical knife or a machete.