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Coventry City League Cup: Official Matchday Thread


Jerseybean

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16 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

This is my continued complaint with Manning . We could have freshened things or tweaked it. 

Manning did make a change at half time. And he'd already had an enforced change. So there were two fresh players on the pitch before Cov made any changes.

You could argue we should have made our 3rd and 4th subs before 68 minutes though.

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1 hour ago, BobBobBobbin said:

Same reason he got selected for England U20's. He's a good player.

He’s not.  At best he is average.  He doesn’t influence a game, ie he directly lift the team with anything.  He is a squad player in a squad where several others are average too.  That’s no slant on him, just what it is.

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20 minutes ago, mozo said:

Manning did make a change at half time. And he'd already had an enforced change. So there were two fresh players on the pitch before Cov made any changes.

You could argue we should have made our 3rd and 4th subs before 68 minutes though.

This was my point. Not sure why Williams came on at HT , unless there was a problem with Knight , but TGH was less effective and possibly flagging after about 50/55 mins . Bell was unfortunate and Cornick or Mehmeti a judgement call , it's after that. 
I think everyone could see the game was slipping away, or at least we were losing control. Bird and Stokes for TGH & Wells would have given us fresh MF legs . 

Palmer always had that ball in him, but until then he hadn't had the space. Just my opinion , but their changes had half a new team buzzing around . I would have liked to see the changes on 60 minutes , be more proactive than reactive .

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5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

This was my point. Not sure why Williams came on at HT , unless there was a problem with Knight , but TGH was less effective and possibly flagging after about 50/55 mins . Bell was unfortunate and Cornick or Mehmeti a judgement call , it's after that. 
I think everyone could see the game was slipping away, or at least we were losing control. Bird and Stokes for TGH & Wells would have given us fresh MF legs . 

Palmer always had that ball in him, but until then he hadn't had the space. Just my opinion , but their changes had half a new team buzzing around . I would have liked to see the changes on 60 minutes , be more proactive than reactive .

Yeah it's pretty clear that the priority was sharing the load. Bird not coming on, and Cornick subbing on ahead of Mehmeti pretty much confirms that.

If we're desperate to win the game, Knight and Bird are the midfield two.

Players like Bell, Cornick, Stokes, Roberts and Naismith need minutes and an opportunity to impress. 

I think Manning was being diplomatic. 

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He’s not.  At best he is average.  He doesn’t influence a game, ie he directly lift the team with anything.  He is a squad player in a squad where several others are average too.  That’s no slant on him, just what it is.

hard disagree! 

He isn't a Manning player. (not sure what one of those is). If you set up the team to utilise his talents he get double figures in goals in the league. 

He's quick, his movement is very good, he's positive in his touches and he's a very decent finisher. 

We don't play to his strengths and therefore he looks worse than he is. 

 

 

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MASSIVE LACK OF QUALITY 

these players are bang average at best and if they don’t put in effort look poor , goalkeeper couldn’t catch a cold , defence well how many goals will they give away this season through poor passes , too slow and easy to read , midfield no bite and no press and as for our forwards poor old Nahki needs 20 chances to score 1 and the new kids on block are only squad players at best , we need some quality in side to bring these on 

mehmeti congratulations only player who entertains through his adventurous football 

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10 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah it's pretty clear that the priority was sharing the load. Bird not coming on, and Cornick subbing on ahead of Mehmeti pretty much confirms that.

If we're desperate to win the game, Knight and Bird are the midfield two.

Players like Bell, Cornick, Stokes, Roberts and Naismith need minutes and an opportunity to impress. 

I think Manning was being diplomatic. 

I get that and totally agree , and the forced Sub didn't help, but Manning saying we want to win every game?
I just feel a little more positivity with the subs could have wrestled back control , or at least we don't concede that goal.
All ifs/but/ and maybes though

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18 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

hard disagree! 

He isn't a Manning player. (not sure what one of those is). If you set up the team to utilise his talents he get double figures in goals in the league. 

He's quick, his movement is very good, he's positive in his touches and he's a very decent finisher. 

We don't play to his strengths and therefore he looks worse than he is. 

 

 

I think this is very generous.

As Dave says, Bell is (at best) average at this level.

I agree that his pace and his finishing are his best attributes. But for a player whose biggest strength is his pace, he's not THAT quick. And for a player whose biggest strength is his finishing, he's not THAT good in front of goal (he's shown a few nice finishes, but also some absolute howlers).

Yes, there are specific circumstances in which Bell can be useful - for example, playing wide in a front 3 against a slow non-physical full back playing a high line. But you can't expect to be operating in the specific circumstances that suit you best every single week. That's football (and life). In those non-ideal situations (i.e. most games) he just doesn't offer enough.

IMO, Bell has struggled with the transition to mens football (much more so than Scott and Conway did, for instance). This feels like a "make it or break it" season for him, and unfortunately the early signs haven't been great.

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1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I was there last night. 

I thought the atmosphere was flat. Maybe because I remember  the times when our fans were really loud and the atmosphere at Ashton Gate was good.

All the noise came from the Coventry end.

 

Out of interest where were you sat?  I was in South Stand and couldn't hear Cov fans until they scored, and even then S82 kept singing.  Don't get me wrong the atmosphere can defo be flat at AG but considering it was less than half full and was 1st round of league up I'd say it was pretty good

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3 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Out of interest where were you sat?  I was in South Stand and couldn't hear Cov fans until they scored, and even then S82 kept singing.  Don't get me wrong the atmosphere can defo be flat at AG but considering it was less than half full and was 1st round of league up I'd say it was pretty good

Sound doesn't travel round the ground too well. Both sets sounded decent from where I was ie our Safe Standing area and the Coventry fans.

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7 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Out of interest where were you sat?  I was in South Stand and couldn't hear Cov fans until they scored, and even then S82 kept singing.  Don't get me wrong the atmosphere can defo be flat at AG but considering it was less than half full and was 1st round of league up I'd say it was pretty good

From the Lansdown I thought both set of fans were good . Ours good for a first round , did go quiet at times but that's normal . Cove were good for a lot of the game , you would expect that with 2.5k there , they did go quiet for spells too . 
Decent game in a decent atmosphere I thought.

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15 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Out of interest where were you sat?  I was in South Stand and couldn't hear Cov fans until they scored, and even then S82 kept singing.  Don't get me wrong the atmosphere can defo be flat at AG but considering it was less than half full and was 1st round of league up I'd say it was pretty good

Dolman - central.

Loudest cheer of the game from our lot was during the half time break when that City fan went rogue, ditched the Big Apple, missed an empty net, did a knee slide in front of the Coventry fans and gave the over-zealous, unfit stewards some much/needed exercise.

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4 minutes ago, mozo said:

Can't argue with that. He accepts we need to work on converting chances into goals. 

It looks like statistically we actually edged it. 

By my reckoning we've had 30 Shots/Attempts in 2 Games.

Good and bad, something to build on and yet a worrying possibility of Energetic yet a bit toothless.

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2 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I was there last night. 

I thought the atmosphere was flat. Maybe because I remember  the times when our fans were really loud and the atmosphere at Ashton Gate was good.

All the noise came from the Coventry end.

 

It's quite usual for away fans to make a lot of noise relative to their numbers, away days always get the vocal cords going, well certainly whenever I have been away, you might as well make the most of the day/ night and make your presence felt, apart from the odd game at home there hasn't really been that much to get the crowd going for a while now, sometimes it's hard to muster up any enthusiasm, should it be us raising the team up, or should it be up to them to give us something to get excited about?

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13 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Bed wetters are out again. It’s the Carabao cup and we made loads of changes.  Tonight’s result doesn’t really matter does it. Onto the weekend 

And yet a previous League Cup run was so memorable you named your tag after the build up to the goal!

It does matter- in reality, progressing is the only chance we get to watch PL players at AG!

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43 minutes ago, mozo said:

Can't argue with that. He accepts we need to work on converting chances into goals. 

It looks like statistically we actually edged it. 

This is my point which is upsetting a few. Let's wait a little while at least and see whether a (hopefully) improving Fally and Armstrong, a number 10 (that would be criminal if at least one didn't come in) enabling Max Bird to play where he should be and the Japanese winger helps us convert the final third possession into clear chances and goals.

You don't get EVERYTHING bottomed out in pre-season, it just doesn't happen. If we get to say the end of September and it's still not working and we still look like we only have one goal at best in us every 90 minutes then Liam will be the one who has some explaining to do. Until then.............

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3 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I was there last night. 

I thought the atmosphere was flat. Maybe because I remember  the times when our fans were really loud and the atmosphere at Ashton Gate was good.

All the noise came from the Coventry end.

 

They were always going to be louder, but I thought s82 did okay. And there were quite a few around me (middle of dolman) joining in.

Maybe you're expecting too much for a league cup first round game, maybe I'm the opposite and am too happy with any home fan encouragement.

I'm sure atmospherewill  be fine Saturday 😬

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51 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

By my reckoning we've had 30 Shots/Attempts in 2 Games.

Good and bad, something to build on and yet a worrying possibility of Energetic yet a bit toothless.

 

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

This is my point which is upsetting a few. Let's wait a little while at least and see whether a (hopefully) improving Fally and Armstrong, a number 10 (that would be criminal if at least one didn't come in) enabling Max Bird to play where he should be and the Japanese winger helps us convert the final third possession into clear chances and goals.

You don't get EVERYTHING bottomed out in pre-season, it just doesn't happen. If we get to say the end of September and it's still not working and we still look like we only have one goal at best in us every 90 minutes then Liam will be the one who has some explaining to do. Until then.............

I think shooting has been the big problem so far.

How many shots over the bar so far?! 

You'd just hope that eventually the players get their eye in!

 

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1 minute ago, mozo said:

 

I think shooting has been the big problem so far.

How many shots over the bar so far?! 

You'd just hope that eventually the players get their eye in!

 

Not so big an issue for me, some will start going in. The clear problem for me is a final pass or cross to create clear chances. That’s where the improvements need to be made.

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We were so below par at so many levels, defence non existent on one side, wing on the other side just as bad, midfield service woeful, very few proper chances the whole game, half time formation changes killed whatever motivation there was in the game - subs list handed to 4th official long before Cov subbed 5 and scored - while our subs meandered around the corner flag - was as if LJ was up in the stand dithering around the 60th minute over how to put it right! It matters not that it was a cup game - fans turn up to see their team win!

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12 minutes ago, Wrongagain said:

We were so below par at so many levels, defence non existent on one side, wing on the other side just as bad, midfield service woeful, very few proper chances the whole game, half time formation changes killed whatever motivation there was in the game - subs list handed to 4th official long before Cov subbed 5 and scored - while our subs meandered around the corner flag - was as if LJ was up in the stand dithering around the 60th minute over how to put it right! It matters not that it was a cup game - fans turn up to see their team win!

I wonder how Coventry fans feel. They lost their first league game. They were dominated first half yesterday, ultimately beating us with a lower xG. 

So, what is the perspective here?

I think the only meaning we can really take from it is that they get a bit of momentum and we lose some. Besides that, we just have to wait and see.

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8 minutes ago, Wrongagain said:

We were so below par at so many levels, defence non existent on one side, wing on the other side just as bad, midfield service woeful, very few proper chances the whole game, half time formation changes killed whatever motivation there was in the game - subs list handed to 4th official long before Cov subbed 5 and scored - while our subs meandered around the corner flag - was as if LJ was up in the stand dithering around the 60th minute over how to put it right! It matters not that it was a cup game - fans turn up to see their team win!

Manning surely cannot be happy and should grow some balls and rip into this lot for lacklustre approach to games  , we don’t look like we could beat a league 1 team let alone championship one and what’s happening with Conway ? 5m bids then get rid , knock on lansdown door and TELL him you want rid and need investment or is it another yes manager 

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45 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

xG per shot of 0.07. Which is not good.

Thanks for providing this (and where did you get it from, out of interest?)

It confirms my belief that although we've had a lot of possession, territoty, and shots through the last couple of games, we're rarely creating meaningful clear-cut chances.

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Just now, Supersonic Robin said:

Thanks for providing this (and where did you get it from, out of interest?)

It confirms my belief that although we've had a lot of possession, territoty, and shots through the last couple of games, we're rarely creating meaningful clear-cut chances.

It's FotMob's numbers. They get their data from statsbomb which is pretty reliable.

With just two matches played I just added xG 1.25 from Coventry to the 0.89 from last night. That's 2.14 which over 30 shots is 0.071.

For reference you generally expect an average (mean) shot to have an xG of about 0.10. In recent seasons we've at times had periods where we've been at 0.11 or 0.12. Many shots have a worse xG of 0.03 or 0.04, but they get balanced out by the rarer but very high values like penalties and really strong chances.

So it might be that the mode would be better than the mean here, but I cba to calculate that.

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5 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I thought I'd leave it until all the usual knee jerk reactions had died down , so here are my thoughts.

Bajic , I thought he did ok. TBF Cov's corners were good and put him under pressure. I noticed on a few corners he didn't get the "minder" he might expect to stop the forward trying to bully him. Got a fist to most and ony one I would criticise him for not catching when under no pressure. 

Defence was ok for the most part. Roberts and Naismith looking good.

Midfield was a mixed bag. Knight did ok, still not found his form yet, TGH I thought did well first half . Started to lose his way 2nd half and I was surprised he wasn't one of the changes made. Williams , like Knight isn't quite on it yet. 

Up front was quite interesting . I think Wells must have played himself into contention for that deep striker/ 10 role , seemed to link well with Fally . The movement of the 2 , reminiscent of Wells & TC , was causing them problems and really must have Manning thinking for Saturday. 
Bell is unlikely to feature Saturday by the sound of it, but didn't do much IMO.

I thought we were good first half , still not clinical enough but their keeper made one very good save from FM . Movement and press were decent and we managed a good amount of control.

2nd half started ok but we began to lose the grip on the game before they made their changes.

This is my continued complaint with Manning . We could have freshened things or tweaked things to try and win the game but he tends to leave it. When Cov made their changes they went to win it , we waited and waited until they scored . Even then there is no real change . TBF I thought Mehmeti did ok as did Stokes , AM put in a couple of decent low crosses and JS made one chance that was begging for someone to get on the end of.
The last sub when chasing the game, same as ever striker off, striker on . 

Manning talks of fluidity but he seems rigid in his ideas. Subs around 60/70 mins and always like for like . In a game that looked likely to be won by the odd goal  surely it was time to play 2 strikers , put some pressure on in their area. As it was plan 'A' was stuck with even though it had stopped working.

I worry that we will see this happen again and again, teams change from how they start and we can't, or wont, adjust to counter . The fresh legs they threw on made the difference , one good ball and a decent finish while we waited to see. 
There were some good signs, Naismith, Wells and Mayulu all making cases for starts . On the other side I think Williams has played himself out of the side, surely Bird & Knight have that MF 2 sewn up. Of course we could have a new player by then.

Can't disagree with any of that. As you say the signs were there to freshen up before Cov made their multiple subs. BUT even after they made their subs & before they scored I said to my mate he needs to make one or two subs straight away. One, to take the sting out of what they had just done, two to give us a bit of time to organise. Take ages when making the subs. And three stick Armstrong on at that point, alongside Fally, to immediately put them on the back foot and throw a bit of a spanner into the plan they had just implemented.

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2 hours ago, pillred said:

It's quite usual for away fans to make a lot of noise relative to their numbers, away days always get the vocal cords going, well certainly whenever I have been away, you might as well make the most of the day/ night and make your presence felt, apart from the odd game at home there hasn't really been that much to get the crowd going for a while now, sometimes it's hard to muster up any enthusiasm, should it be us raising the team up, or should it be up to them to give us something to get excited about?

I think it’s up to the team to get the fans going.

We’ve paid good money to watch and support them, particularly if we see them busting a gut and giving their all for the club and it’s supporters.

The players are on the pitch to perform and entertain us (and well paid to do so).

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The observations within our group as the 2nd half petered out was:

Naismith, for all his ability, slows the game down. Always appears to need an extra touch before offloading. He had a good game defencesively, but there are others ahead of him in the squad in both defence and midfield. Bell, appears a little lost. Looks to be short of confidence and as soon as he makes a mistake his heads down and he's struggling. If he's a first choice starter we've got real problems. If Cornick never plays for us again it'll be too soon. He might run and run but like a headless chicken. He offers nothing other than endeavour, a long throw and gangly legs do not make a career. Fally looks to be a good signing, looking forward to see him when he's up and running fully. Sinclair looks good but raw and is going to suffer from being a physical player getting called for fouls when he's the victim but strong enough to repel the initial contact. Those that went Saturday as well, were impressed with Bird/Knight so hopefully we'll see that blossom. Williams' overly enthusiastic style of child like,  win the ball at all costs play will lead to rash challenges and fouls but do you want to take that fight out of his game?

Overall we'll be difficult to break down but we're lacking that cutting edge, hopefully Earthy/Twine and Yu can add to that

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5 hours ago, JAWS said:

Can't disagree with any of that. As you say the signs were there to freshen up before Cov made their multiple subs. BUT even after they made their subs & before they scored I said to my mate he needs to make one or two subs straight away. One, to take the sting out of what they had just done, two to give us a bit of time to organise. Take ages when making the subs. And three stick Armstrong on at that point, alongside Fally, to immediately put them on the back foot and throw a bit of a spanner into the plan they had just implemented.

Yes, a good coach/manager would have done that, unfortunately we don't have one.

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5 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I think it’s up to the team to get the fans going.

We’ve paid good money to watch and support them, particularly if we see them busting a gut and giving their all for the club and it’s supporters.

The players are on the pitch to perform and entertain us (and well paid to do so).

It's a Chicken and egg dilemma, but yes it's usually the team doing something that gets the crowd going a difficult one to call. 

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7 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

xG per shot of 0.07. Which is not good.

Is this a case of not having a natural player in that 10 role?

When we get 25/30 yards from goal we don't have the ability to find that killer ball, so instead panic and hit a shot 5 yards over the bar.

Perhaps Earthy/Twine reduces our need to shoot so often

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5 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Is this a case of not having a natural player in that 10 role?

When we get 25/30 yards from goal we don't have the ability to find that killer ball, so instead panic and hit a shot 5 yards over the bar.

Perhaps Earthy/Twine reduces our need to shoot so often

I think it points to that being a possibility yes. Although I'm not sure it's a distance thing. It's only a one game sample but the average distance of our shots on the Hull game was 15.3yds, so within the pen box. Hull's was 19.8 for reference.

I think it's more a case of strikers and midfield not quite clicking. Strikers not quite being in position and midfield not quite getting the right pass at the right time.

Ave xG/shot under Manning last season was 0.1 (0.11 at home), so I'm not worried yet. Especially as 30 shots is an almost pointlessly small sample size.

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21 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Bed wetters are out again. It’s the Carabao cup and we made loads of changes.  Tonight’s result doesn’t really matter does it. Onto the weekend 

Not convinced a loss doesn’t matter, winning mentality is built by winning and having a strong desire to win, acceptance of mediocrity is never going to be part of a winning mentality.

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10 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Not convinced a loss doesn’t matter, winning mentality is built by winning and having a strong desire to win, acceptance of mediocrity is never going to be part of a winning mentality.

For the players, yes. But fans should be philosophical otherwise they'll drive themselves mad.

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25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Anyone just seen Hull’s goal conceded to Wednesday (the second goal). 🤣🤣🤣
 

they truly are shit at playing out!

I laughed my head off.

Surprised it's only 2-1. Wednesday don't bother defending too much, and Hull can't

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Didn’t go or didn’t watch last night ( shame on you I hear you all say ) but by going by the forum I’ve gone giddy 

we played well with some good approach work - we were shit and lacked quality 

The goals will come as we’re creating chances - we will never score in the month of Sundays and struggle to create anything 

i thought the atmosphere was flat - section 82 was loud even the middle of the dolman were joining in 

couldn’t hear the cov fans - atmosphere from the cov fans was really good 

poor quality game in a flat atmosphere - thought it was a decent game in a good atmosphere for the first round 

🤪 🤷

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23 hours ago, hollydog said:

I did say seriously tested but don’t want a row about semantics. Have a good evening. 

Meant no offence - just have a real thing about words being important. 

Hope you had a good evening- COYRs! 

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35 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

Meant no offence - just have a real thing about words being important. 

Hope you had a good evening- COYRs! 

None taken and agree about grammar- I’m a miserable old sod. Have recovered from last night’s disappointment and, despite myself, looking forward to the Millwall game (even in the knowledge that I will revert to grumpy old man when stuck on the M5 with all the holiday traffic). Why do we do it?

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12 hours ago, Topper 123 said:

MASSIVE LACK OF QUALITY 

these players are bang average at best and if they don’t put in effort look poor , goalkeeper couldn’t catch a cold , defence well how many goals will they give away this season through poor passes , too slow and easy to read , midfield no bite and no press and as for our forwards poor old Nahki needs 20 chances to score 1 and the new kids on block are only squad players at best , we need some quality in side to bring these on 

mehmeti congratulations only player who entertains through his adventurous football 

Mehmeti may appear to be adventurous but he’s like the kid in the street. It’s my ball so I keep it without passing to others, or I take it home!

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Here’s both of the Wednesday goals versus Hull from earlier.

All 3 goals the result of a press.

After the Hull game I saw some of our fans praising how excellent our press was and how this signalled a new dawn etc. 

Whilst we did execute the press well, I felt it was more the fact Hull invited the press with their extreme way of playing out from the back with players not capable of doing so. 

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25 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

We’d have a different number presumably?

Yep we'd have had Southampton at home I think.

Not exciting and not a game we could have made changes and won really!

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On 14/08/2024 at 20:02, Davefevs said:

Anyone just seen Hull’s goal conceded to Wednesday (the second goal). 🤣🤣🤣
 

they truly are shit at playing out!

According to @petehinton their new coach did promise “heart attack football” on his appointment.

Certainly delivering on that, this is peak Clayton Fortune under Danny Wilson stuff..

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