Why the surprise..?

[Cityboy1954]

11 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

I’m ever the pessimist when it comes to this club, so much so I didn’t renew this season. But you can’t get too carried away after two games, one being a cup game with a much changed line up.

There are still players to come in. I would hope Bird and Knight were the preferred midfield two moving forward. I said at the time he signed a new contract, Williams has been part of the problem for the last few years. He will have the occasional good game, Watford away for example. But in the whole he offers very little. TGH as well since his move was made permanent. You could easily forget he is part of the squad.

Get this young kid in from West Ham to provide the spark, leave Bird and Knight to do the dirty work. Defence seems ok. Fingers crossed the new guys up front come good once they have settled.

Good post  exactly

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, P'head Red said:

What happened to assessing after 10 games? That's always been my barometer. Whilst I'm dubious about the current regime this doesn't change. I thought there were good signs on the weekend against Hull, but yes we need to be more clinical in the final third. Let's not forget we're yet to see what Yu can bring to the team, and more than likely a new number 10.

If/when the 'full strength' 11 is out on the pitch and we still can't produce a creative display then that's when we'd be right in demanding more. 

2 hours ago, temp said:

Close season is for identifing and bringing in your target players and showing those not required the door.

Pre season is for for the squad to be honed into an elite footballing unit, fully prepared for the first game and first 10 games, the first 10 games are the season, not warm up games and after the first 2 and from what I have seen we seem far from ready for it.

Many will be looking to the next transfer window to "fine tune" the squad more in hope than anything else....ah well here we go again.

I liked both of these posts, I think there is truth in both of them, despite being on opposite sides.

I don’t think we should be defining the season after two games, and although preseason is about honing stuff, 23 other sides are also doing that.

It is why I laugh a bit when the likes of JL (amongst others) say things like “he needs preseason”, and it’s almost made to sound like we are the only club getting that and the other 23 clubs are sat on their hands.

49 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

It’s funny how often people think with a clean slate and a short summer break, things will automatically be better the next season….

The football is different under Manning, yes, but the outcomes are largely going to be the same results wise

This is kinda my whole rhetoric re Manning.  What has actually changed?  Lots, but not the ultimate outcomes.  Some players have done a bit better, some a bit worse.  There hasn’t been the uplift, “on the grass coaching” doesn’t appear to be the golden ticket we were told it was.

+++++

But alas, it’s 2 games in, there are some encouraging things, but also some things that look a bit worse too.

Fingers crossed.

[ralphindevon]

I’m not sure “write off” is the right phrase to use but I don’t think it’s too early to call the seasons outcome now. Mid table once again, surely.

Don’t get me wrong I spent the 80’s and 90’s dreaming of supporting an established 2nd tier team. My recently moved in neighbour, who happens to manage a championship team down the road, would be delighted with a mid table finish.

Not all doom and gloom but supporting a football club has always been a rollercoaster experience but at the moment we seem to be on a long flat stretch in the middle, unsure of when the next steep section will be. And will it be up or down?

[FNQ]

7 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

I’m not sure “write off” is the right phrase to use but I don’t think it’s too early to call the seasons outcome now. Mid table once again, surely.

Don’t get me wrong I spent the 80’s and 90’s dreaming of supporting an established 2nd tier team. My recently moved in neighbour, who happens to manage a championship team down the road, would be delighted with a mid table finish.

Not all doom and gloom but supporting a football club has always been a rollercoaster experience but at the moment we seem to be on a long flat stretch in the middle, unsure of when the next steep section will be. And will it be up or down?

I believe that even mid table will still unfortunately be a stretch.. it’s certainly not an easy task to write down a list of a dozen sides who you would reasonably expect to finish below us. We’ll need a lot of stars to align to finish in the top half.

[Mattredrobin]

11 hours ago, PFree said:

I am baffled as to why some fans expect us to be a side challenging for the top six this season. We continue to sell our best players for good money and then shop in Lidl and Poundstretcher for lower league players we hope might come good in several seasons time.

Once SL decided not to invest further, we have been treading water, and that will continue sadly.

When you look at Ellis Simms tonight, they spent around £8m on him and as much as I hope our new strikers do well, being honest, what pedigree and track record have we bought..?

Not being negative, more realistic, and yes, I renewed our ST’s, but not out of expectancy, more that I enjoy the social time and beers with mates.

Sincerely hope I am wrong but mid table is as much as I expect with this squad..

100% this is how I look at it. Been wanting to post something similar but was not sure how to word it correctly but this is spot on.

[ralphindevon]

12 minutes ago, FNQ said:

I believe that even mid table will still unfortunately be a stretch.. it’s certainly not an easy task to write down a list of a dozen sides who you would reasonably expect to finish below us. We’ll need a lot of stars to align to finish in the top half.

I’m thinking there’s the top 8, bottom 8 and the middle 8, I’m guessing we’ll be somewhere mid/lower of the middle 8.

But of course strange things happen in football, just not to us at the moment…..

 

[Big Cheese]

10 hours ago, mozo said:

If we beat Millwall on Saturday we'll be averaging 2 points per game, and suddenly the sun is shining again.

Let's not be too crestfallen after a league cup 1st round!

Naturally, if we lose to Millwall, I'll accept it's a bad three-game start to the season, but let's just wait and see.

Imagine the reaction and comments from fans if we lose to Millwall? Which we often do, the pressure will really be on then, after just 3 games!

[Numero Uno]

One away game and one cup game with a side containing five or six players who won't be starting a huge number of games, and certainly not TOGETHER unless we have significant injuries, our Captain substituted at half time to keep him fresh for Saturday, without 2-3 players who are either injured or not signed yet, and you've all summarised the season already.............down to pretty much the exact position we will finish. You've worked out already how we will be playing in November, January, February etc..

Genius.

Oh yeah, you've got to love the people losing their shit over Nelson not being picked whilst he's in a hospital bed......brilliant!!

[Northern Red]

4 hours ago, P'head Red said:

What happened to assessing after 10 games? That's always been my barometer. Whilst I'm dubious about the current regime this doesn't change. I thought there were good signs on the weekend against Hull, but yes we need to be more clinical in the final third. Let's not forget we're yet to see what Yu can bring to the team, and more than likely a new number 10.

If/when the 'full strength' 11 is out on the pitch and we still can't produce a creative display then that's when we'd be right in demanding more. 

We lost. Therefore all of that goes out of the window and everyone involved is useless.

[FNQ]

3 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

We lost. Therefore all of that goes out of the window and everyone involved is useless.

So what are you saying? No comments, negative anyway, until we’ve played 10 games? What should we use the forum for in the meantime then?

[Sir Geoff]

12 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

I do believe our ownership needs a refresh. But I’m still optimistic for the season. A solid defence is a hell of a thing to build on. 

It's a start, granted. Not much use if we become known as Bristol City Nil, though.

[Bazooka Joe]

11 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

Plenty to ask BT about at senior reds this week. He's the guest speaker. I expect that he will only take written questions.

I’d prefer Tinnion to get bombarded with rotten questions.

My guess is that it will be another PR/Comms fiasco.

We’ll find out soon enough.

[JBFC II]

4 hours ago, P'head Red said:

What happened to assessing after 10 games? That's always been my barometer. Whilst I'm dubious about the current regime this doesn't change. I thought there were good signs on the weekend against Hull, but yes we need to be more clinical in the final third. Let's not forget we're yet to see what Yu can bring to the team, and more than likely a new number 10.

If/when the 'full strength' 11 is out on the pitch and we still can't produce a creative display then that's when we'd be right in demanding more. 

If we do win on Saturday, it will become an important point for many I'm sure.

We can take very little from last night apart from that certain players aren't up to scratch. We wouldn't have been able to take much from the game had we taken a couple of chances in the first half and won it.

I think we're closer than we were this time last season to going somewhere, there's still a couple of pieces of the jigsaw missing though

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I think we're closer than we were this time last season to going somewhere, there's still a couple of pieces of the jigsaw missing though

Out of interest, in what way do you think we are closer?

[Sir Geoff]

1 minute ago, JBFC II said:

If we do win on Saturday, it will become an important point for many I'm sure.

We can take very little from last night apart from that certain players aren't up to scratch. We wouldn't have been able to take much from the game had we taken a couple of chances in the first half and won it.

I think we're closer than we were this time last season to going somewhere, there's still a couple of pieces of the jigsaw missing though

There weren't top 6 expectations last year (except for a few people). Last year was the foundations laid ready to start building the walls during the season before putting the roof on this season. Unfortunately 3 people thought the roof could go on after the foundations.

[JBFC II]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, in what way do you think we are closer?

Our attack was our weak point last season, we didn't score enough.

Earthy, Yu, Armstrong and Mayulu all provide us with something new in that area, there's more depth there now and at Hull we looked a threat.

We've kept the defence that got us into midtable last season while adding to the attack that was holding us back from going further.

Of course, things may change. Players may not live up to early hopes and injuries can happen. But I feel way more confident in our offensive play this season than I did 12 months ago, the possible addition of Twine would only enhance that

[mozo]

31 minutes ago, Big Cheese said:

Imagine the reaction and comments from fans if we lose to Millwall? Which we often do, the pressure will really be on then, after just 3 games!

 

25 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

We lost. Therefore all of that goes out of the window and everyone involved is useless.

OTIB is 90% emotional and 10% analysis 

[JBFC II]

7 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

There weren't top 6 expectations last year (except for a few people). Last year was the foundations laid ready to start building the walls during the season before putting the roof on this season. Unfortunately 3 people thought the roof could go on after the foundations.

I agree, and I don't think there should be this season either (despite what the board may say), there are too many teams further ahead of us.

However, I think we'll be closer. We were the joint 7th lowest scorers last season and we've made moves to change that. 

Will those moves pay off? Who knows, but I feel more optimistic than I did 12 months ago. 

[Frenchay Red]

16 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I’d prefer Tinnion to get bombarded with rotten questions.

My guess is that it will be another PR/Comms fiasco.

We’ll find out soon enough.

I tend to agree.

My experience of these Q & A sessions, where it's either SL or BT, is that they only take written questions and answer on those topics they are comfortable with. Anything challenging is ignored. 

I can't see it being any different tomorrow

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I agree, and I don't think there should be this season either (despite what the board may say), there are too many teams further ahead of us.

However, I think we'll be closer. We were the joint 7th lowest scorers last season and we've made moves to change that. 

Will those moves pay off? Who knows, but I feel more optimistic than I did 12 months ago. 

I think we will concede more this season…because it’s not just personnel that’s changed to improve the attack.  I think there will be some “give” in the defence as a result.

[Roger Red Hat]

It would be really nice to think that this being our 10th(?) season at this level that we'll have more to be excited about than battling it out for 12th place.

[The Coach]

I said before the season began 10 games will give us an indication as to where we will be. However, I did counteract that more likely in our scenario the club have 5 games to indicate growth to the fanbase and get fans on their side.

There is still a feeling of anger towards the club and I’m glad it’s still there and not forgotten. If we do find ourselves not picking up many points after 6 games I hope all the anger and blame is directed to Tinnion and JL.

I still predict an average season of finishing 12-15th. We will see more lows then highs and we will always be consistent of being inconsistent.

[Numero Uno]

37 minutes ago, FNQ said:

So what are you saying? No comments, negative anyway, until we’ve played 10 games? What should we use the forum for in the meantime then?

Criticism of what happened in the game is what it's all about. Proclaiming that you know we are in for a long hard season or will finish 15th after one away game in the league and a glorified cup reserve team training session (for both sides) is absolute bollocks. It's complete and utter guesswork at this stage. We could win five of the next 9, have a middling run of 3/3/3 or lose five of the next 9.....at that point you have an educated idea of what might happen rather than a complete guess or a rant because the result never went our way and some (too many including a few experienced posters on here) simply can't handle the disappointment.

The only Bingo Buzzword Bullshit I haven't read on here this morning is "I can't see where the next win is coming from"....that surprised me tbh. The pile on for Sam Bell at the moment is a bit crap too imo - he might not be good enough, he might turn out to be in the end but the slagging he's getting, seemingly because some people are lovesick for Tommy and don't see Sam as a replacement, is a bit shite to be fair.

[JBFC II]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I think we will concede more this season…because it’s not just personnel that’s changed to improve the attack.  I think there will be some “give” in the defence as a result.

I'd agree, I think we'll miss James in that regard. Not sure we plan on using Bird in the same way.

However, I think what we'll gain offensively will outweigh what we lose defensively and a few of the close defeats and draws will become draws and close victories.

I guess we'll have to find out!

[Alessandro]

57 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

One away game and one cup game with a side containing five or six players who won't be starting a huge number of games, and certainly not TOGETHER unless we have significant injuries, our Captain substituted at half time to keep him fresh for Saturday, without 2-3 players who are either injured or not signed yet, and you've all summarised the season already.............down to pretty much the exact position we will finish. You've worked out already how we will be playing in November, January, February etc..

Genius.

Oh yeah, you've got to love the people losing their shit over Nelson not being picked whilst he's in a hospital bed......brilliant!!

So a few, including myself, have expressed their opinions on how this season might pan out - I used the word ‘average’ a lot as that’s what I think will happen.

You've just come out and criticised people for having that opinion - so either you don’t agree, or it upsets you that people predict a different outcome to what you expect/hope for (it’s a forum)

So leaving the last comment aside, out of interest, can you tell us what your hopes/expectations are for the season, and what signs, trends etc you’ve seen to show I can hope for anything more than mid table again? 

[FNQ]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Criticism of what happened in the game is what it's all about. Proclaiming that you know we are in for a long hard season or will finish 15th after one away game in the league and a glorified cup reserve team training session (for both sides) is absolute bollocks. It's complete and utter guesswork at this stage. We could win five of the next 9, have a middling run of 3/3/3 or lose five of the next 9.....at that point you have an educated idea of what might happen rather than a complete guess or a rant because the result never went our way and some (too many including a few experienced posters on here) simply can't handle the disappointment.

The only Bingo Buzzword Bullshit I haven't read on here this morning is "I can't see where the next win is coming from"....that surprised me tbh. The pile on for Sam Bell at the moment is a bit crap too imo - he might not be good enough, he might turn out to be in the end but the slagging he's getting, seemingly because some people are lovesick for Tommy and don't see Sam as a replacement, is a bit shite to be fair.

Couldn’t agree with you more on the personal slagging off of Sam Bell, or any player, or poster for that matter. But as for how the team is perceived to be performing or how the club is performing versus the expectation given, then this is a forum for people to express their views. You may think that everything is hunky dory, that’s great it’s your opinion, but others don’t have to agree and are entitled to see things differently.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Alessandro said:

So a few, including myself, have expressed their opinions on how this season might pan out - I used the word ‘average’ a lot as that’s what I think will happen.

You've just come out and criticised people for having that opinion - so either you don’t agree, or it upsets you that people predict a different outcome to what you expect/hope for (it’s a forum)

So leaving the last comment aside, out of interest, can you tell us what your hopes/expectations are for the season, and what signs, trends etc you’ve seen to show I can hope for anything more than mid table again? 

No, not criticising people for having a sensible opinion at all. Some of it isn’t sensible, it’s driven by anger at a result.

I would expect us to improve attacking wise as the season goes on because I see something in both Armstrong and Fally on limited evidence so far and clearly the club are looking to bring a 10 in which is an obvious “miss” right now. Plus we have a winger who might or might not make a difference, we’ll see.

Whether we finish top (third), middle or bottom depends how quickly that improvement occurs but I’m certainly not sacking the season off on 14th August, that’s for certain.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Couldn’t agree with you more on the personal slagging off of Sam Bell, or any player, or poster for that matter. But as for how the team is perceived to be performing or how the club is performing versus the expectation given, then this is a forum for people to express their views. You may think that everything is hunky dory, that’s great it’s your opinion, but others don’t have to agree and are entitled to see things differently.

I understand all that but too many opinions, in my view, are sensationalist and borne out of anger. We’ve played one league game and you are talking about meeting expectations or not………..seriously?

[2015]

How many 0-1 home defeats have we had this calendar year? 
Millwall, Leeds, QPR, Cardiff, Coventry.

28 goals scored in 2024, with 5 coming in one game vs Blackburn. 

It shows you where our problems lie. We are very very easy to defend against, and contain. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, 2015 said:

How many 0-1 home defeats have we had this calendar year? 
Millwall, Leeds, QPR, Cardiff, Coventry.

28 goals scored in 2024, with 5 coming in one game vs Blackburn. 

It shows you where our problems lie. We are very very easy to defend against, and contain. 

Of which 4 were penalties.

7 in 31 was lovely to make up for lost time, but I don't see that again 7 in a League season this time but we will see.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We are a fairly midtable side aren't we.

*Solid defensively in general.

*Technically fine in midfield.

*Good Energy

End Product and Goals...huge question mark.

My preseason view is that we were short a #10 and still are; we need more spark and probably more bloody goals as well. Coventry switched their team and started playing through our lines and a little bit of quality from Simms, and we were a goal down. On the other hand, we looked more and more disjointed; we didn't have a plan B. 

One reason for optimism I'm generally sceptical until we've at least played a block of 10 games, is that Fally does seem to be growing and improving game by game (all be it two so far), and if he's up to championship speed by the second block of 10, then we could see a decent return from him ~12 goals. 

[2015]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Of which 4 were penalties.

7 in 31 was lovely to make up for lost time, but I don't see that again 7 in a League season this time but we will see.

I have an issue with how we are actually set up to attack. Everything comes down the flanks and i'm afraid those wingers if they aren't on it then we won't create anything. We've played on the counter for the last 4 or 5 years for this very reason - we have very few players who are able to create something from nothing. 

Watching us at the weekend and last night, everything just seemed a real real effort to create a real goal scoring opportunity.

[ExiledAjax]

Heard a curious stat yesterday on the Guardian podcast.

Apparently no team in the premier league has ever improved their points return for five consecutive seasons. This was said in reference to Arsenal's title chances. They've improved in the past 4 seasons, but no club has ever done a quintet of improvements

No idea if that carries down into the championship but were we to improve on 62...we'll that would be 5 years of rudimentary points return improvement.

51 (19th) -> 55 (17th) -> 59 (14th) -> 62 (11th) -> ??

Does this mean anything? Probably not. But I guess it might indicate that anyone surprised at a slow start - if indeed this is a slow start - may find solace in history.

Edited August 14 by ExiledAjax

[2015]

5 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

One reason for optimism I'm generally sceptical until we've at least played a block of 10 games, is that Fally does seem to be growing and improving game by game (all be it two so far), and if he's up to championship speed by the second block of 10, then we could see a decent return from him ~12 goals. 

I'm worried the Bristol City way will coach his abilities out of him 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, 2015 said:

I have an issue with how we are actually set up to attack. Everything comes down the flanks and i'm afraid those wingers if they aren't on it then we won't create anything. We've played on the counter for the last 4 or 5 years for this very reason - we have very few players who are able to create something from nothing. 

Watching us at the weekend and last night, everything just seemed a real real effort to create a real goal scoring opportunity.

Ironically we were moving towards better possession play etc albeit not at all times when we went to the midfield 3 including Naismith and Scott. Take the latter especially out of there and it can become a bit Idk predictable.

[archie andrews]

10 hours ago, Malago said:

We spent 18 of the 24 years from 1982 to 2006 in tier 3 or below.  Being a solid tier 2 side is not to be sniffed at.

Always said it... Imagine if this forum was around circ 80 83......

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I have an issue with how we are actually set up to attack. Everything comes down the flanks and i'm afraid those wingers if they aren't on it then we won't create anything. We've played on the counter for the last 4 or 5 years for this very reason - we have very few players who are able to create something from nothing. 

Watching us at the weekend and last night, everything just seemed a real real effort to create a real goal scoring opportunity.

I thought that first half last night we did play through them centrally.  Naismith helped that.  I saw more straight balls from deep / deepish into Wells and Mayulu’s feet than I have in recent times.  We got Knight rolling away from his man centrally too.  Some encouragement.

[2015]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ironically we were moving towards better possession play etc albeit not at all times when we went to the midfield 3 including Naismith and Scott. Take the latter especially out of there and it can become a bit Idk predictable.

Our best football the last 5 years was August and September of 2022/23, honestly. We had creativity and a shape which made us hard to contain. We had goals in us - Weimann, Conway, Semenyo, Wells with Scott and Naismith in behind these guys. I don't think we have replaced Semenyo yet or Scott adequately. We had various weapons in our arsenal to score different types of goals.

Now we have a lot of tidy and neat footballers, but none that I think that are potential match winners at this level (Fally could be if we create a system that suits strikers). The thing is we did at the beginning of 2022/23 - we had 2 up front and played a 352, but our fans didn't like it because Naismith would give the odd goal away, so we can't have it both ways.

[2015]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I thought that first half last night we did play through them centrally.  Naismith helped that.  I saw more straight balls from deep / deepish into Wells and Mayulu’s feet than I have in recent times.  We got Knight rolling away from his man centrally too.  Some encouragement.

I do agree that Knight, Wells and Fally linked up quite well at times first half, but whenever the ball went wide we either went backwards or lost possession. We look too easy to defend against like this.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, 2015 said:

Our best football the last 5 years was August and September of 2022/23, honestly. We had creativity and a shape which made us hard to contain. We had goals in us - Weimann, Conway, Semenyo, Wells with Scott and Naismith in behind these guys. I don't think we have replaced Semenyo yet or Scott adequately. We had various weapons in our arsenal to score different types of goals.

Now we have a lot of tidy and neat footballers, but none that I think that are potential match winners at this level (Fally could be if we create a system that suits strikers). The thing is we did at the beginning of 2022/23 - we had 2 up front and played a 352, but our fans didn't like it because Naismith would give the odd goal away, so we can't have it both ways.

It was good for a time but had its flaws too..Sykes at Wingback IMO. We were struggling by December/January time in the back 3, changed HT Home v Swansea in the FA Cup.

I think to play the Wingbacks system it must be McCrorie and Pring and potentially Naismith in the back 3. Otherwise not much with current personnel.

[FNQ]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I understand all that but too many opinions, in my view, are sensationalist and borne out of anger. We’ve played one league game and you are talking about meeting expectations or not………..seriously?

Off the pitch the start to this season has certainly not met expectation, just look at the Twine, Tommy debacles.. On the pitch even Liam can see that there’s room for improvement..

“It’ll come, I’m confident it will come. We have to all step up and take responsibility and in high-pressure moments, deliver, and go and get the rewards for that.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, FNQ said:

Off the pitch the start to this season has certainly not met expectation, just look at the Twine, Tommy debacles.. On the pitch even Liam can see that there’s room for improvement..

“It’ll come, I’m confident it will come. We have to all step up and take responsibility and in high-pressure moments, deliver, and go and get the rewards for that.

Of course there’s room for improvement otherwise we win both games so far comfortably. That’s Liam’s job, to make it happen.

[RAF Rock Ape]

Is it accurate to conclude that, based on just one league game where we performed exceptionally well against Hull away, and a League Cup match where we fielded a secondary squad, some individuals are prematurely dismissing our entire season? 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

40 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Heard a curious stat yesterday on the Guardian podcast.

Apparently no team in the premier league has ever improved their points return for five consecutive seasons. This was said in reference to Arsenal's title chances. They've improved in the past 4 seasons, but no club has ever done a quintet of improvements

No idea if that carries down into the championship but were we to improve on 62...we'll that would be 5 years of rudimentary points return improvement.

51 (19th) -> 55 (17th) -> 59 (14th) -> 62 (11th) -> ??

Does this mean anything? Probably not. But I guess it might indicate that anyone surprised at a slow start - if indeed this is a slow start - may find solace in history.

What does it mean as a metric? Nothing. Why 5 and not 4? It's because it adds drama to a story about Arsenal. If they don't improve their points tally this year and win the title, I'm sure they will be fine with that stat.  89 points was their return last season, Leicester City won it with 81 and Chelsea with 87 the season before, were really in a period of Man City dominance and rediculous points returns for the top teams.  Arsenal's Undefeatables only had one point more than last season with 90.  

Edited August 14 by Lorenzos Only Goal
EDIT

[38MC]

50 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I understand all that but too many opinions, in my view, are sensationalist and borne out of anger. We’ve played one league game and you are talking about meeting expectations or not………..seriously?

I think you've hit the nail on the head Numero Uni with the 'borne out of anger'. 

People are angry at the way the club is being run and by whom the club is being run. Unfortunately the patience just isn't there really. People want to see a proper governance structure put in place, for the right people to be performing the right roles, for ambition to translate into a playing budget suitable to that ambition, and a lot more transparency. 

You're right patience is far more rational, but there is a huge sense of deja vu and 'ere we go again right now which is understandable too, because this does all feel all too familiar.

For me the worrying pattern is again a game where we were so Jekyl and Hyde - I know we won't dominate games all the time and there are two teams playing, but we cannot just concede complete 45m chunks of games as we seem to and that's not a 2 game assessment. I also worry about the in-game management as well. I also worry about having these 'options' but we rarely seem to change our approach to a game in a game. It's these patterns for me which are concerning on the playing side. 

[MythikRobins]

10 minutes ago, Salford Red said:

Is it accurate to conclude that, based on just one league game where we performed exceptionally well against Hull away, and a League Cup match where we fielded a secondary squad, some individuals are prematurely dismissing our entire season? 

It wouldn't be a fan forum without premature dismissal or approval. If we come out and batter Millwall 5-0 you'll have 100 posters come out saying everyone who was upset after Tuesday is an idiot and doubting Manning should get you executed.

IMO anything pre 10 games is way too early to make any sweeping statements, we've had plenty of lightning quick starts in our decade in this division and other teams like Preston last year and some teams have had horror starts but recovered, Coventry last season were 20th after 17 matches. Even knowing this its difficult not to fall into doing it.

[ExiledAjax]

16 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

What does it mean as a metric? Nothing. Why 5 and not 4? It's because it adds drama to a story about Arsenal. If they don't improve their points tally this year and win the title, I'm sure they will be fine with that stat.  89 points was their return last season, Leicester City won it with 81 and Chelsea with 87 the season before, were really in a period of Man City dominance and rediculous points returns for the top teams.  

It's not a stat about winning the PL title, that's merely the context within which it was presented.

The fact stands alone and it simply highlights that it is unusual for a club to consistently improve it's points return over a long period of time. That period happens to be the period that we are currently at as well. Looking back quickly it looks like we hold to this rule. We've had periods of successive improving points returns for 4 seasons, but have not managed a 5th in recent times (I'm not checking our whole history).

That's it. Just a curiosity.

Edited August 14 by ExiledAjax

[Rocking Red Cyril]

13 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Without wanting to sound like a knob, the can’t tell if you are serious or not?

I picked it up in here. Do I assume I have missed news of someone possibly  incoming from West Ham or have seriously misunderstood some one.

 

 

[Laner]

1 hour ago, Roger Red Hat said:

It would be really nice to think that this being our 10th(?) season at this level that we'll have more to be excited about than battling it out for 12th place.

And that after one game, we're not in the same league position we'll be in come the end of the season!

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, 38MC said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head Numero Uni with the 'borne out of anger'. 

People are angry at the way the club is being run and by whom the club is being run. Unfortunately the patience just isn't there really. People want to see a proper governance structure put in place, for the right people to be performing the right roles, for ambition to translate into a playing budget suitable to that ambition, and a lot more transparency. 

You're right patience is far more rational, but there is a huge sense of deja vu and 'ere we go again right now which is understandable too, because this does all feel all too familiar.

For me the worrying pattern is again a game where we were so Jekyl and Hyde - I know we won't dominate games all the time and there are two teams playing, but we cannot just concede complete 45m chunks of games as we seem to and that's not a 2 game assessment. I also worry about the in-game management as well. I also worry about having these 'options' but we rarely seem to change our approach to a game in a game. It's these patterns for me which are concerning on the playing side. 

I do understand the anger towards a couple of individuals. Unfortunately those two are going NOWHERE and if we are too impatient and if Liam does get bombed out by October/November we are relying on those two to come up with a plan. Good luck with that.

To put context on it we SHOULD be bringing in a number 10 to add some quality which frees up Max Bird to do his real job and also means that we shouldn't be seeing TGH and Williams playing 40 games each this season. We have two forwards who have started alright and, if coached correctly, should be showing signs of improvement as we go. We also have a winger who we can't judge just yet but must have been brought in to improve the quality of the crossing AND stretch teams a bit (which gives us more room to play).

I said earlier that how quick the improvement occurs (or not) determines our season. However, to start getting on Liam's back straight away (whilst the two people that caused the anger get away scot free) will have a hugely detrimental effect on the speed of progress. For me, he has to be given a chunk of games by fans to show that he either can or can't do what is required before we start looking at his position. He's here, Nige is gone, not changing it however angry we might be at that. Just know that whatever happens to Liam there are two people going nowhere.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

How many 0-1 home defeats have we had this calendar year? 
Millwall, Leeds, QPR, Cardiff, Coventry.

28 goals scored in 2024, with 5 coming in one game vs Blackburn. 

It shows you where our problems lie. We are very very easy to defend against, and contain. 

 

Ponderous and predictable. Good players being coached to advance at 0.5mph. God forbid someone makes a run at their defence!

[38MC]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I do understand the anger towards a couple of individuals. Unfortunately those two are going NOWHERE and if we are too impatient and if Liam does get bombed out by October/November we are relying on those two to come up with a plan. Good luck with that.

To put context on it we SHOULD be bringing in a number 10 to add some quality which frees up Max Bird to do his real job and also means that we shouldn't be seeing TGH and Williams playing 40 games each this season. We have two forwards who have started alright and, if coached correctly, should be showing signs of improvement as we go. We also have a winger who we can't judge just yet but must have been brought in to improve the quality of the crossing AND stretch teams a bit (which gives us more room to play).

I said earlier that how quick the improvement occurs (or not) determines our season. However, to start getting on Liam's back straight away (whilst the two people that caused the anger get away scot free) will have a hugely detrimental effect on the speed of progress. For me, he has to be given a chunk of games by fans to show that he either can or can't do what is required before we start looking at his position. He's here, Nige is gone, not changing it however angry we might be at that. Just know that whatever happens to Liam there are two people going nowhere.

Completely agree, and agree the reason he probably won't be given time is because of the perception he was brought in as someone malleable to the current regime. Unfortunately tainted by association, whether that's fair, true or otherwise. 

[fisherrich]

Lost the will with the current setup. Just the same old mediocrity. I’m bored ……

[formerly known as ivan]

16 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I picked it up in here. Do I assume I have missed news of someone possibly  incoming from West Ham or have seriously misunderstood some one.

 

 

Yes, a youngster is due to arrive on a season long loan from West Ham. Attacking midfielder, very highly thought of by all accounts.

[One Team]

26 minutes ago, 38MC said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head Numero Uni with the 'borne out of anger'. 

People are angry at the way the club is being run and by whom the club is being run. Unfortunately the patience just isn't there really. People want to see a proper governance structure put in place, for the right people to be performing the right roles, for ambition to translate into a playing budget suitable to that ambition, and a lot more transparency. 

You're right patience is far more rational, but there is a huge sense of deja vu and 'ere we go again right now which is understandable too, because this does all feel all too familiar.

For me the worrying pattern is again a game where we were so Jekyl and Hyde - I know we won't dominate games all the time and there are two teams playing, but we cannot just concede complete 45m chunks of games as we seem to and that's not a 2 game assessment. I also worry about the in-game management as well. I also worry about having these 'options' but we rarely seem to change our approach to a game in a game. It's these patterns for me which are concerning on the playing side. 

Great post and where I think many are at especially given last nights booing.

If fans don’t see tangible progress after the first 10/12 games (or even worse regression) then it once again be very bumpy. 

 

[A Darkwood Red]

13 hours ago, east sussex red said:

Bloke who puts in more effort than any other player continues to be the butt of jokes from his own supporters.

He can put in more effort than anyone else in world football for all I care, he has not been any good for us and there is absolutely no sign, at all that he ever will be!

[Mr Popodopolous]

41 minutes ago, MythikRobins said:

It wouldn't be a fan forum without premature dismissal or approval. If we come out and batter Millwall 5-0 you'll have 100 posters come out saying everyone who was upset after Tuesday is an idiot and doubting Manning should get you executed.

IMO anything pre 10 games is way too early to make any sweeping statements, we've had plenty of lightning quick starts in our decade in this division and other teams like Preston last year and some teams have had horror starts but recovered, Coventry last season were 20th after 17 matches. Even knowing this its difficult not to fall into doing it.

Robins had huge credit in the bank...Manning really doesn't and it is in no small part due to the circumstances of last October/November and those above who should have been less credit.

[MythikRobins]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Robins had huge credit in the bank...Manning really doesn't and it is in no small part due to the circumstances of last October/November and those above who should have been less credit.

I'm not comparing to our situation, if we're like that Manning will undoubtedly be sacked. I was just saying how little a poor start can really matter across a whole season. Hell if we end up in that situation and Manning is sacked I'd still back us to finish top-half with a different head-coach.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, MythikRobins said:

I'm not comparing to our situation, if we're like that Manning will undoubtedly be sacked. I was just saying how little a poor start can really matter across a whole season. Hell if we end up in that situation and Manning is sacked I'd still back us to finish top-half with a different head-coach.

This is quite fair. To get top half or above we need IMO to hope Twine, Earthy or both click and knit together the disconnect between what we do well and don't.

I wonder what would be an acceptable and a good start to the season..Both by the hierarchy and the fans.

[KegCity]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is quite fair. To get top half or above we need IMO to hope Twine, Earthy or both click and knit together the disconnect between what we do well and don't.

I wonder what would be an acceptable and a good start to the season..Both by the hierarchy and the fans.

Am I missing something? Have we regressed since last season?

[MythikRobins]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is quite fair. To get top half or above we need IMO to hope Twine, Earthy or both click and knit together the disconnect between what we do well and don't.

I wonder what would be an acceptable and a good start to the season. Both by the hierarchy and the fans.

By the fans? 15 games: 25+ pts. Hierarchy 18+ Pts. Would be my estimate.

[RAF Rock Ape]

29 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

Lost the will with the current setup. Just the same old mediocrity. I’m bored ……

Could you elaborate on what specific aspects of the team’s performance or management have led you to this conclusion? I’m genuinely curious to understand your perspective, as I believe we have improved dramatically on previous years. 

[Scrumpylegs]

This is just ridiculous. We get a draw in a game we were expected to lose and a narrow loss, with a second string team, in a cup game that no-one cares about anyway. Does this really warrant all of this negativity?

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

No, not criticising people for having a sensible opinion at all. Some of it isn’t sensible, it’s driven by anger at a result.

I would expect us to improve attacking wise as the season goes on because I see something in both Armstrong and Fally on limited evidence so far and clearly the club are looking to bring a 10 in which is an obvious “miss” right now. Plus we have a winger who might or might not make a difference, we’ll see.

Whether we finish top (third), middle or bottom depends how quickly that improvement occurs but I’m certainly not sacking the season off on 14th August, that’s for certain.

As always the problem on here - when you direct specific grievances to general “everyone is saying x….” - when they’re clearly not. 

In my opinion - you’re doing exactly what you’re saying other people shouldn’t do - making judgements on 2 games! Just because your judgement is a ‘positive’ one doesn’t give some sort of high ground.

I would argue what you’re doing is actually worse - as my opinion is based not only on 2 games but; watching this squad the last several years - current performance levels - last season’s performances under Manning - Manning’s record as a manager at previous clubs - our transfer business this summer - and many other things.

You’re putting a lot of weight on a player you’ve never seen, a hypothetical player that hasn’t signed yet and two who don’t exactly arrive with a huge pedigree…

Eitherway - this season - we’re either going to 1) Go up. 2) Stay in the division 3) Go down. 

What happens in the middle will be largely variable and no one can predict.

But I believe from all the factors above we will, despite the rhetoric from the club, stay in this division this season again - is that writing the season off? Well I guess so…but I’m not the one running or setting the expectations from the club so it’s not on my head. Doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion. 

[temp]

1 hour ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Yes, a youngster is due to arrive on a season long loan from West Ham. Attacking midfielder, very highly thought of by all accounts.

Whatever he does wont do jackshit to rebuild a promo chasing squad because he wont be here the following season, worse really because he wont be ours to sell either.

So why not buy one now?

[PFree]

57 minutes ago, Scrumpylegs said:

This is just ridiculous. We get a draw in a game we were expected to lose and a narrow loss, with a second string team, in a cup game that no-one cares about anyway. Does this really warrant all of this negativity?

I started this one and can assure you it wasn’t intended as negativity, it was very much realism. We, as a club, and fanbase I guess, have got used to accepting mediocrity. If I had a fiver every time the word “if” was used relating to our performances, I’d be a rich man.

But, this is a results based game, and those up top, Tinnion, Manning and the players are paid an absolute fortune “to perform”.

For Hull in our first league game, and many times last season, we should have put games to bed, but instead we make up all sorts of excuses as to why it seldom happens. For me, we are a “nice club that has accepted mediocrity and that will continue to tread water”. I appreciate that’s the SL way now as it needs to be run like a business, but I am fed up with having no driven, leaders, on the pitch, instead, we help opponents up, and make sure they are okay and wish them well as they leave the gate, it’s hardly a fortress is it..? As for our identity as a side, what the hell is it?

In the first half last night, we played well, shots on target were good, but we went in at nil nil. When the five subs came on, we were clueless and tactically seemed to have no idea how to respond. We took arguably our best player off at half time, played players out of position in the second half, and seemed to have no idea what to do, so continually went long? Why Cornick and Mehmeti were brought on and then Mehmeti played on the wrong side, I have no idea - why persevere with these players?

I sincerely hope that in my life time we reach the Premier League, but whilst SL is here and the club run by rank amateurs where its “jobs for the boys” without any skill, knowledge or understanding of such important roles, sorry, it just isn’t happening.

I will continue to buy our ST’s as I have done for over 30 years but I go now to enjoy the company of what over the years have become great friends around me, it certainly isn’t out of expectancy..

 

[Southport Red]

14 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

I thought we dropped off but if you think that was an embarrassing performance then you can’t have been watching City for long. Last 15 got back on top, after a tough spell just after they made their subs. Difference tonight was how ruthless we were (been an issue for a couple of years) Simms had one chance and he buried it

First game 1967, watched us go from First Division (in old money) to fourth in successive seasons. We have been bad for a lot of that time but at least you saw effort. Second half yesterday was as bad as Pulis. Last Saturday we pressed and looked really good for long spells, last night, yes, embarrassing. 

[Charlie BCFC]

1 minute ago, Southport Red said:

First game 1967, watched us go from First Division (in old money) to fourth in successive seasons. We have been bad for a lot of that time but at least you saw effort. Second half yesterday was as bad as Pulis. Last Saturday we pressed and looked really good for long spells, last night, yes, embarrassing. 

Each to their own, bad as Pulis? Really? Wouldn’t even say it’s as bad as when we went out of this cup last season

[formerly known as ivan]

1 hour ago, temp said:

Whatever he does wont do jackshit to rebuild a promo chasing squad because he wont be here the following season, worse really because he wont be ours to sell either.

So why not buy one now?

Cus life isn’t that simple.

[CityCiderEd]

7 hours ago, Alessandro said:

It’s funny how often people think with a clean slate and a short summer break, things will automatically be better the next season….

The football is different under Manning, yes, but the outcomes are largely going to be the same results wise - no players seem to be stepping up their levels considerably from that which they showed under Pearson. 

The extended squad level is average - Roberts, Tanner, Sykes, Williams - yes good solid championship pros - but not the levels we need for a sustained promotion push - one great game in 5 isn’t enough. The huge promise of players such as Mehmeti and Bell fading into the distance with every game.

Behind the scenes - well it’s just average: the vision of the board is average, the implementation, average.

The recruitment has been nothing more than average - the squad is still average. 

Budgets and spending average at best - (if we sell Conway is that another season of more in than out?)

Not sure how anyone expected anything more than another average season?

Or are we hanging our hopes on a 20 year old loanee - Or even “gentleman’s agreement” Twine?

Same old City, but hey ho - yeah some may say it’s only 2 games, but it’s not, it’s last season too trending into this for me so far, as it was always going to do. You can either see it now, or we can talk again in 10 games time, 20, 30 - the outcome will be the same, average at best.
 

and all the debate in middle will be the same 

Probably one of the best posts that sums up following Bristol City