Joe Williams answered his critics

[And Its Smith]

Joe Williams is one of those players that is always one game away from an online pile on of ‘he’s not good enough, why did we renew’. 
 

There are (rightfully) topics this evening on Mayulu, Earthy and Bird but this guy deserves every bit as much credit after today.  After costing us two points last week he has put in a mountain of a performance off and on the ball.  If there are going to be comments when he makes a mistake there needs to be plaudits when he plays like he did today. 

Edited August 17 by And Its Smith

[Shauntaylor85]

Did he? Sorry but I thought he was the weak link. No way should he be playing in our midfield. Earthy and Twine have to start where they finished and Bird central with Knight. Good assist for the winner but overall I thought he was sloppy. Funny game isn’t it. 

[hinsleburg]

6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Joe Williams is one of those players that is always one game away from an online pile on of ‘he’s not good enough, why did we renew’. 
 

There are (rightfully) topics this evening on Mayulu, Earthy and Bird but this guy deserves every bit as much credit after today.  After costing us two points last week he has put in a mountain of a performance off and on the ball.  If there are going to be comments when he makes a mistake there needs to be plaudits when he plays like he did today. 

Must admit I thought he was poor today.

Great cross for the goal but he would be the one I would take out for Twine to play centrally.

Edited August 17 by hinsleburg

[Shauntaylor85]

Just now, hinsleburg said:

Must admit I thought he was poor.

Great cross for the goal but he would be the one I would take out for Twine to play centrally.

Absolutely. I’d have sooner kept James of the two. In fact defensively it showed today. 

[Port Said Red]

Thought he was our second worse performer today, as I have said on another thread, too many fouls given away in dangerous areas. 

Pring was a yard of it until the last 10 minutes, so he was my least effect players of the day.

[And Its Smith]

7 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Did he? Sorry but I thought he was the weak link. No way should he be playing in our midfield. Earthy and Twine have to start where they finished and Bird central with Knight. Good assist for the winner but overall I thought he was sloppy. Funny game isn’t it. 

 

5 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

Must admit I thought he was poor today.

Great cross for the goal but he would be the one I would take out for Twine to play centrally.

Made pretty much all his tackles I think and won all his headers.  Blocked shots, cut out passing lanes.   Off the ball he was superb.  And an assist.  

2 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Thought he was our second worse performer today, as I have said on another thread, too many fouls given away in dangerous areas. 

Pring was a yard of it until the last 10 minutes, so he was my least effect players of the day.

In that role he is going to give away two fouls which is all he committed 

[BobBobBobbin]

The thing about Joe is, he's not easy on the eye. When your backs against the wall it's obvious what he does and why we need him. When we are dominating the ball it becomes less obvious.

But for everything he lacks in guile and technique, he makes up for in abundance with his ability in the press and block phases, he's energetic and he wants to play forward. 

Put it this way, I'd rather have him in our team than be up against him. That's a sure sign that he's an excellent player. I get frustrated with him, but I don't understand the hate. He's definitely more good than bad over the course of a game. 

[BasSavage88]

If he could pass he would’nt be playing for us 

Edited August 17 by BasSavage88

[PortInTheMorning]

9 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Did he? Sorry but I thought he was the weak link. No way should he be playing in our midfield. Earthy and Twine have to start where they finished and Bird central with Knight. Good assist for the winner but overall I thought he was sloppy. Funny game isn’t it. 

 

It's funny how people can have almost the complete opposite impression of the same event:

 

I thought he was brilliant! particularly in the first half:

he made three crucial interceptions/last ditch tackles, two of which were timed to perfection and prevented clear goal scoring opportunities (the sliding tackle in the box for example). I thought he controlled the game well and switched the play nicely (more so than knight even) and of course there was that assist. To call him the weak link based on that performance is unfair. I'd still pick Bird, Knight and Twine over him, but he deserves a lot of credit for his performance today.

[Dullmoan Tone]

I thought he blocked a certain goal in the first half - brilliantly timed. 

I’m not his biggest fan but thought he was well worth his place today.

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, PortInTheMorning said:

 

It's funny how people can have almost the complete opposite impression of the same event:

 

I thought he was brilliant! particularly in the first half:

he made three crucial interceptions/last ditch tackles, two of which were timed to perfection and prevented clear goal scoring opportunities (the sliding tackle in the box for example). I thought he controlled the game well and switched the play nicely (more so than knight even) and of course there was that assist. To call him the weak link based on that performance is unfair. I'd still pick Bird, Knight and Twine over him, but he deserves a lot of credit for his performance today.

I think some see stuff on the ball more than they see stuff off the ball. 

[Gratz260689]

Williams and Sykes the worst 2 out there today!! Think now with the new signings these 2 might be the ones missing out soon! 

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

I thought he blocked a certain goal in the first half - brilliantly timed. 

I’m not his biggest fan but thought he was well worth his place today.

He did indeed block a certain goal. Initially I thought it was one of our defenders and was surprised to see that it was Williams. It was very impressive. 

He’s a natural footballer but his temperament lets him down too often. Being a scouser he’s got the same tendencies that Rooney had - reckless challenges as we saw last week at Hull and quick to react impulsively at the referee which earns him yellow cards. 

With the arrival of Twine, Earthy and Bird the competition in the engine room will certainly mean that he’ll needs to keep his mouth shut and up his game - can he do it?……I’m not so sure that he can.

 

[BigTone]

Just now, Robbored said:

Being a scouser he’s got the same tendencies that Rooney had

 

Don't let him near your Granny then 

[David Brent]

An improvement on his previous performances this season and an important assist. I’ll settle for that

[Davefevs]

As the game appeared to drift away from 2-0 to 2-3 there was part of me thinking back to the way Matty James would control the centre of the pitch, be available for every pass, and distribute the ball quickly as we build attacks / pressure.

I thought Joe Williams tried to take on that mantle in the last 25 mins, and did it well.

Early days but I think teething problems with Knight wanting to play a bit more like an 8, so Williams is gonna be left on his own a lot.

[Eddie Notgetinya]

27 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

I thought he blocked a certain goal in the first half - brilliantly timed. 

I’m not his biggest fan but thought he was well worth his place today.

100% he did. Hell of a block

[Port Said Red]

48 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

 

Made pretty much all his tackles I think and won all his headers.  Blocked shots, cut out passing lanes.   Off the ball he was superb.  And an assist.  

In that role he is going to give away two fouls which is all he committed 

4 of his first 5 challenges were fouls.

[pongo88]

I wasn’t impressed by him today as  Millwall had too much control of midfield. It needed someone to stop the flow of their attacks and he didn’t do it. A 4-3 win is great entertainment but, in reality, you don’t want to concede 3 goals at home 

[MythikRobins]

He still has that random couple minutes where he wins the ball back and just hoofs it to row Z for no reason in every game he plays. I won’t say he was good today but great assist. 

Edited August 17 by MythikRobins

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

Thought he was our second worse performer today, as I have said on another thread, too many fouls given away in dangerous areas. 

Pring was a yard of it until the last 10 minutes, so he was my least effect players of the day.

To be fair to Pring - Anis in front of him may as well have not bothered being on the pitch (goal aside).

Constantly had to deal with tracking overlaps on poor handovers and was out on his arse by 70.

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

4 of his first 5 challenges were fouls.

Think people in this thread are mixing up the foul on the edge of the area (when 'Wall had FK in a really dangerous position), that was actually Tanner.

The one wide towards the corner of the box was him - and one of the others he actually made contact with the ball first.

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

I think some see stuff on the ball more than they see stuff off the ball. 

Couldn’t agree more,he will probably cost us 10 points a season through recklessness but will earn us a lot more and we can’t afford a upgrade on him so he will do for now 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Did he? Sorry but I thought he was the weak link. No way should he be playing in our midfield. Earthy and Twine have to start where they finished and Bird central with Knight. Good assist for the winner but overall I thought he was sloppy. Funny game isn’t it. 

He stopped a certain goal by sliding in and taking it of a blokes toe. 
 

The thing about Williams is he maybe doesn’t follow instruction that well and can sometimes be a bit headless, but he’s tough and puts in a tackle and isn’t scared to leave a bit on the opposition. I don’t care what anyone says that’s essential to any team with aspirations, which is why he plays. His passing “can” be excellent and his ability to do the ordinary stuff well is why he got another contract and is starting. 
 

As Mr Manning says he is liable to the occasional numpty move like last Saturday but he gets those right nine out of ten. 

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, PortInTheMorning said:

 

It's funny how people can have almost the complete opposite impression of the same event:

 

I thought he was brilliant! particularly in the first half:

he made three crucial interceptions/last ditch tackles, two of which were timed to perfection and prevented clear goal scoring opportunities (the sliding tackle in the box for example). I thought he controlled the game well and switched the play nicely (more so than knight even) and of course there was that assist. To call him the weak link based on that performance is unfair. I'd still pick Bird, Knight and Twine over him, but he deserves a lot of credit for his performance today.

It was notable for that last ditch tackle in the box how many players went and “celebrated” him for it. I’m sure 6 or 7 made a point of high 5 him etc after that.

Thought he was largely very good today, albeit I can understand the comments about sloppy passing. I’m sure he gave it away 2/3 times quite cheaply.

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

As the game appeared to drift away from 2-0 to 2-3 there was part of me thinking back to the way Matty James would control the centre of the pitch, be available for every pass, and distribute the ball quickly as we build attacks / pressure.

I thought Joe Williams tried to take on that mantle in the last 25 mins, and did it well.

Early days but I think teething problems with Knight wanting to play a bit more like an 8, so Williams is gonna be left on his own a lot.

So would you have offered MJ a two year deal then, Dave? Highest earner... two more years?

City offered him a great deal for one more year,  he turned it down. Would you have offered more?

Seems he is currently without a club. 

[ProfitInMyPocket]

I thought he did fine, seen much better and much worse performances from Williams.

Steadily went about his job today imo.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

So would you have offered MJ a two year deal then, Dave? Highest earner... two more years?

City offered him a great deal for one more year,  he turned it down. Would you have offered more?

Seems he is currently without a club. 

No, we’d signed Max Bird.

Any reason for asking me?

Edited August 17 by Davefevs

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

No, we’d signed Max Bird.

Why did you say this a couple of hours ago then? Max Bird not good enough for you? Own your opinion.... 

part of me thinking back to the way Matty James would control the centre of the pitch, be available for every pass, and distribute the ball quickly as we build attacks / pressure.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Why did you say this a couple of hours ago then? Max Bird not good enough for you? Own your opinion.... 

part of me thinking back to the way Matty James would control the centre of the pitch, be available for every pass, and distribute the ball quickly as we build attacks / pressure.

Eh, what you on about?

You’re making no sense.

It was a comment to praise Joe Williams.

Btw Max Bird didn’t play CM today, so no idea why you’ve reached the conclusion you have.

Did you see this 6+ hours ago?

Max Bird plenty good enough for me.

Really bizarre post / attack Kid.

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

It was notable for that last ditch tackle in the box how many players went and “celebrated” him for it. I’m sure 6 or 7 made a point of high 5 him etc after that.

Thought he was largely very good today, albeit I can understand the comments about sloppy passing. I’m sure he gave it away 2/3 times quite cheaply.

Knight gives the ball away far more, but doesn't get a mention.

[leadman]

i don't see anyone pointing out knights poor passing, there was plenty of that, joe is what he is, over a season he will get more plaudits than stick.

[The dastardly red]

4 hours ago, BigTone said:

Don't let him near your Granny then 

Rooney was complete class as a player. Everyone on this forum knows my opinion on him so I won't retread old ground but I will say that he certainly made some mistakes in his personal life. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it. Let's just leave it at that. 

[Red-Robbo]

Thought Joe did well to not react to the continual niggling fouls on him inflicted, I've no doubt, because Millwall were told he was likely to retaliate and pick up a card. With no help from the useless ref, JW shrugged off the fouls and had a quietly competent game. 

[REDOXO]

52 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Eh, what you on about?

You’re making no sense.

It was a comment to praise Joe Williams.

Btw Max Bird didn’t play CM today, so no idea why you’ve reached the conclusion you have.

Did you see this 6+ hours ago?

Max Bird plenty good enough for me.

Really bizarre post / attack Kid.

He rarely does!

I’ll have another land lord! 

Edited August 18 by REDOXO

[BobBobBobbin]

9 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Why did you say this a couple of hours ago then? Max Bird not good enough for you? Own your opinion.... 

part of me thinking back to the way Matty James would control the centre of the pitch, be available for every pass, and distribute the ball quickly as we build attacks / pressure.

many ciders were had.

[park end paul]

I think every team needs a Joe, an enforcer in midfield, a shithouse who know one likes, he won virtually every loose header in our box in the first half, Millwall had a team full of them, bags of energy I just hope he stays fit.

[Swede]

I thought he had a terrific game yesterday! Put his body on the line in saving a certain goal and did the dirty work which enabled Knight & Bird to do the more positive things. Without him yesterday we wouldn't have won that match, simple.

Funnily enough I was thinking how LM gets Twine into the starting 11 when he has such a good fulcrum of Williams, Knight & Bird! It's up to Mehmeti and Sykes to keep their form up.

It was the same with Matty James last season, the simple parts of his game go un noticed.

[Kid in the Riot]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Eh, what you on about?

You’re making no sense.

It was a comment to praise Joe Williams.

Btw Max Bird didn’t play CM today, so no idea why you’ve reached the conclusion you have.

Did you see this 6+ hours ago?

Max Bird plenty good enough for me.

Really bizarre post / attack Kid.

You were pining after James, Dave. So my Q was, if you are missing him, then would you have signed him on a 2 year deal.

You've answered that Q - that was it. Thanks! 

[Davefevs]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

You were pining after James, Dave. So my Q was, if you are missing him, then would you have signed him on a 2 year deal.

You've answered that Q - that was it. Thanks! 

Go back and find where I was.  You won’t.  I’ve been consistent and pragmatic all along about the contract situations of James and Williams, and the signing of Bird and the dynamic of that.

 

[2015]

I'm not sure Williams answered his critics yesterday, it was no stand out performance by him. I'd have scored him a 6/10.

[frenchred]

14 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Joe Williams is one of those players that is always one game away from an online pile on of ‘he’s not good enough, why did we renew’. 
 

There are (rightfully) topics this evening on Mayulu, Earthy and Bird but this guy deserves every bit as much credit after today.  After costing us two points last week he has put in a mountain of a performance off and on the ball.  If there are going to be comments when he makes a mistake there needs to be plaudits when he plays like he did today. 

Everyone entitled to their own view, I won't change mine, that he is a weak link, quite a poor footballer for a pro  and a red card waiting to happen, after one average game

[Maltshoveller]

Some seem to love him

He will be this seasons scapegoat for others

Even if you dont think he should be in the starting 11

He is a very good player to have on the bench

[2015]

14 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Absolutely. I’d have sooner kept James of the two. In fact defensively it showed today. 

I did say this after the cup game in the week. We'll miss James' composure on the ball and general steadyness. However, his wages were high and he hasn't yet signed for a new club, so that explains a lot..

[2015]

Just now, Maltshoveller said:

Some seem to love him

He will be this seasons scapegoat for others

Even if you dont think he should be in the starting 11

He is a very good player to have on the bench

In my opinion Williams is very good when City are the team who are playing on the break and playing against better opposition as he can rough them up a bit and get in their faces.

Not a bad player, but not the most progressive with the ball.

[Maltshoveller]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

Everyone entitled to their own view, I won't change mine, that he is a weak link, quite a poor footballer for a pro  and a red card waiting to happen, after one average game

That makes him sound like a championship Connor Gallagher

[frenchred]

3 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

That makes him sound like a championship Connor Gallagher

:laugh:, that's probably one of the better comparisons!

[Red Army 75]

Williams put himself under pressure after his WWE antics last week. I thought he had a 7 out of 10 performance yesterday. The whole team put themselves under pressure after those crazy 15 second half minutes. He stepped up at the end and set a glorious winner up. Several times we got turned yesterday from our midfielders poor touches. 

Edited August 18 by Red Army 75

[mozo]

Sofascore gave Williams our highest matching rating, one notch higher than Bird (Armstrong 3rd).

Also, I noticed that wiki says Joe is closing in on 100 appearances for City (3 to go).

[Henry]

12 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

That makes him sound like a championship Connor Gallagher

Connor Gallagher is a championship Jason Knight

[Red from afar]

Williams is one of those players that if he's not in the team, I bet the defence and other midfielders feel they have to do a lot more work in a game.

Edited August 18 by Red from afar

[James54De]

13 hours ago, frenchred said:

Everyone entitled to their own view, I won't change mine, that he is a weak link, quite a poor footballer for a pro  and a red card waiting to happen, after one average game

Hmmm. Has he ever been sent off for us?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

14 hours ago, Swede said:

I thought he had a terrific game yesterday! Put his body on the line in saving a certain goal and did the dirty work which enabled Knight & Bird to do the more positive things. Without him yesterday we wouldn't have won that match, simple.

Funnily enough I was thinking how LM gets Twine into the starting 11 when he has such a good fulcrum of Williams, Knight & Bird! It's up to Mehmeti and Sykes to keep their form up.

It was the same with Matty James last season, the simple parts of his game go un noticed.

Yes I think fitting Twine in will be  interesting. LM wants a 10 so Twine is in. Knight & Bird look good together but they need a physical presence to strengthen the mid field so there you have Williams. So there's your 4 man midfield. It becomes interesting when Yu is fit. Sykes and/or Mehmeti to drop ? Mehmeti still not consistent enough for me although definitely has talent. Does Sykes offer and give enough to keep his place ? I am not sure.

I am sure the squad, as it stands, will develop it self over the season as LM finds his best starting 11. Who knows if there will be any out going players or even late newcomers in this window.

I am really looking forward to watching this squad develop together during the season and seeing if we are in a better position than last season. But one thing I feel we cannot expect is instant success. The players, and coaching staff need to be given time to find the best way for the squad as it stands. And let's not forget any home grown talent that might push their way into the first team.

COYR

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Yes I think fitting Twine in will be  interesting. LM wants a 10 so Twine is in. Knight & Bird look good together but they need a physical presence to strengthen the mid field so there you have Williams. So there's your 4 man midfield. It becomes interesting when Yu is fit. Sykes and/or Mehmeti to drop ? Mehmeti still not consistent enough for me although definitely has talent. Does Sykes offer and give enough to keep his place ? I am not sure.

I am sure the squad, as it stands, will develop it self over the season as LM finds his best starting 11. Who knows if there will be any out going players or even late newcomers in this window.

I am really looking forward to watching this squad develop together during the season and seeing if we are in a better position than last season. But one thing I feel we cannot expect is instant success. The players, and coaching staff need to be given time to find the best way for the squad as it stands. And let's not forget any home grown talent that might push their way into the first team.

COYR

I agree with all this. The issue is injuries! Very few managers get to pick their best starting 11. What we have is a good quality squad that will have to adapt when shit happens!

[Port Said Red]

8 hours ago, mozo said:

Sofascore gave Williams our highest matching rating, one notch higher than Bird (Armstrong 3rd).

Also, I noticed that wiki says Joe is closing in on 100 appearances for City (3 to go).

Well at least I know to ignore Sofascore, that's shocking.

[Northern Red]

9 hours ago, James54De said:

Hmmm. Has he ever been sent off for us?

Don't think so, which technically means he's right because it is still waiting to happen...

[Swede]

10 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Yes I think fitting Twine in will be  interesting. LM wants a 10 so Twine is in. Knight & Bird look good together but they need a physical presence to strengthen the mid field so there you have Williams. So there's your 4 man midfield. It becomes interesting when Yu is fit. Sykes and/or Mehmeti to drop ? Mehmeti still not consistent enough for me although definitely has talent. Does Sykes offer and give enough to keep his place ? I am not sure.

I am sure the squad, as it stands, will develop it self over the season as LM finds his best starting 11. Who knows if there will be any out going players or even late newcomers in this window.

I am really looking forward to watching this squad develop together during the season and seeing if we are in a better position than last season. But one thing I feel we cannot expect is instant success. The players, and coaching staff need to be given time to find the best way for the squad as it stands. And let's not forget any home grown talent that might push their way into the first team.

COYR

Yes; the feeling I have is that with the new players, the team has moved up a gear. Its up to the existing forward thinking players such as Sykes & Mehmeti to step up or be left behind. I feel a make or break year for Sam Bell also. Interesting times.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just checked the Sky Sports Commentary.

Williams only as per that committed Two Fouls Saturday.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just checked the Sky Sports Commentary.

Williams only as per that committed Two Fouls Saturday.

Yep.