Mehmeti

[CliftonCliff]

30 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Whilst you are, of course, correct that Jantzen Derrick signed for PSG, back in the 1970s, when he signed for them, they were not the force they are today.

They were very much a fledgling club, having been formed just a few seasons prior to JD signing by a merger of two pretty ‘ordinary’ teams.

Notwithstanding that, I do agree that JD was a very talented footballer, and AM has a long way to go before he can be compared favourably with JD.

Thanks for the clarification. I was probably a bit cavalier about historical accuracy because I was so indignant that anyone could suggest the two players were in any way comparable. Actually, if I was being scrupulously fair to the other poster, I would concede that Jantzen could be infuriatingly inconsistent in the early stages of his career, but as we're primarily discussing Mehmeti, I think what I would want to emphasise mostly is that JD had footballing intelligence, which AM sadly seems to lack and I'm not sure it's something that can be effectively coached.

I don't like singling our individual players for criticism - there's too much of that on here as it is - but we've persevered with him and shown patience to arguably a greater extent than we have with some other young players and I don't see much sign of him developing. He has technical skill, as many have acknowledged, but is at best a slow learner and I just don't think he possesses what we usually refer to as a football brain. I would love him to prove me wrong, because if he can change certain aspects of his game he will be an asset, but my guess is he ultimately won't make it at this level.   

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

The summary is correct imo, but the stats are slightly out. 

According to other stats he only makes the top 32% for assists from midfield/wing in the Championship. Pretty damning in that position.

Do, are you saying he’s in the top third for midfield / wingers in the league.  That’s pretty good then isn’t it?  Better than being bottom third for example?

Or are you saying 32nd centile / 32%….in which case he’s bottom third?

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Do, are you saying he’s in the top third for midfield / wingers in the league.  That’s pretty good then isn’t it?  Better than being bottom third for example?

Or are you saying 32nd centile / 32%….in which case he’s bottom third?

Yep...bottom third. Damn work...rushing my wording. Apologies, corrected and edited now.

Edited August 28 by spudski

[Numero Uno]

19 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

We've got a very strange way about some of our fans, grass is always greener and really disparaging about our products chances.

Some people can only see what is right in front of them here and now. Using Semenyo as an example it was obvious that we had a young player who was very raw but, by making improvements to his game, could become a gem. Same with Armstrong. Sometimes players don’t improve as you expect them too but so many people have no patience to find out.

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Some people can only see what is right in front of them here and now. Using Semenyo as an example it was obvious that we had a young player who was very raw but, by making improvements to his game, could become a gem. Same with Armstrong. Sometimes players don’t improve as you expect them too but so many people have no patience to find out.

Think the fan base is fed up of ' developing' a player whilst playing for the first team and putting up with the errors. 

And when they come good for a fleeting moment, we flog em. 

Rince and repeat

[KegCity]

21 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Some people can only see what is right in front of them here and now. Using Semenyo as an example it was obvious that we had a young player who was very raw but, by making improvements to his game, could become a gem. Same with Armstrong. Sometimes players don’t improve as you expect them too but so many people have no patience to find out.

Flip side of that is that plenty of players don't ever improve. O'Dowda is a great example.

[ExiledAjax]

45 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yep...bottom third. Damn work...rushing my wording. Apologies, corrected and edited now.

Fbref narrows it to a comparison to attacking wide players, and puts his assists at the 6th percentile for the last 365 days. There are some good numbers here - carries (dribbles) are good, his defensive work is also solid.

But these passing and assist stats are just dire. Including *attempts* at passes and assists. So what's he doing at the end of these successful dribbles and take-ons? He's shooting. He's not passing, he's not playing in the team, he's going for it. Hence he's at the 68th percentile for shooting. 

And he's scored a handful.

It's not the best use of one of our ten outfield positions. He's useful in certain circumstances, but as I've said before - there's no use being the guy who draws in defenders and disrupts the defensive positioning if you don't then pass it to your team mate who's in that space that's been created.

Stop being a vampire, and be martyr instead.

 

 

Edited August 28 by ExiledAjax

[PHILINFRANCE]

8 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Flip side of that is that plenty of players don't ever improve. O'Dowda is a great example.

I feel a little bit sorry for O’Dowda.

I had always considered him a skilful, albeit extremely frustrating, player, and I really thought he had finally broken through until his untimely and unnecessary injury against Hull.

Unfortunately, he never really recovered from that.

 

[steviestevieneville]

10 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I feel a little bit sorry for O’Dowda.

I had always considered him a skilful, albeit extremely frustrating, player, and I really thought he had finally broken through until his untimely and unnecessary injury against Hull.

Unfortunately, he never really recovered from that.

 

He was never championship standard imo. He was a legend in his own head though . After delaying his new contract then doing an interview saying the club now have the same ambitions as him you won’t get anywhere without self belief but he came across as delusional. He ran with his head down & constantly ran into trouble . Got bullied off the ball because he didn’t know how to use his body to shield the ball . Imo one of the worst signings we’ve made since we come back up in 2015 . 

Edited August 28 by steviestevieneville

[KegCity]

10 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I feel a little bit sorry for O’Dowda.

I had always considered him a skilful, albeit extremely frustrating, player, and I really thought he had finally broken through until his untimely and unnecessary injury against Hull.

Unfortunately, he never really recovered from that.

 

I don't. Managed to get a career as a championship footballer from scoring a worldie away to Norwich.

[Major Isewater]

31 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Flip side of that is that plenty of players don't ever improve. O'Dowda is a great example.

The difficulty is identifying said players and knowing when to help them on their way. 
 

[CityCiderEd]

Sadly you can only coach so much into certain players. Awareness of what's going on in and around them is something that only they can sort out. It's one of the traits Mehmeti struggles with and why I think he struggles to attain the level required for the championship. He's been here a while now and although he's improved from his first game until now it's like O'Dowda all over again, although I think O'Dowda was slightly better. 

[CliftonCliff]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

He was never championship standard imo. He was a legend in his own head though . After delaying his new contract then doing an interview saying the club now have the same ambitions as him you won’t get anywhere without self belief but he came across as delusional. He ran with his head down & constantly ran into trouble . Got bullied off the ball because he didn’t know how to use his body to shield the ball . Imo one of the worst signings we’ve made since we come back up in 2015 . 

"One of our worst signings since 2015" might be a tad harsh: there's some pretty strong competition for membership of that club. Marley Watkins for a start. And some of those bloody loan signings... Jesus!

But I know where you're coming from. He was ultimately a disappointment, though I do agree that his injury was a bad one and I think perhaps worse than many people realised at the time. (Did he not have to have surgery on a badly damaged ankle? And I'm pretty sure there were mutterings about some staff being fearful for his career at one point.) Those things can have a very significant impact on confidence, especially in relation to heavy physical contact. When he can stay fit, he seems to get into Cardiff's team pretty regularly (not that that's a particularly glowing recommendation, especially at the moment). 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Think the fan base is fed up of ' developing' a player whilst playing for the first team and putting up with the errors. 

And when they come good for a fleeting moment, we flog em. 

Rince and repeat

I agree with that BUT Steve ain’t shelling out for half a dozen or more £5m-£8m, £1m per year proven players that make top 6 the minimum expectation. We get one of those if we’re lucky!! Not aimed at you personally but if you can’t swallow that you’re following the wrong club.

We are in the market for the Sinclair Armstrong’s of this world even when we splash our dough. That’s the reality whether we agree with it or not. The plan, which is not a solid one, is to hope that one or more of these lads with potential realises it very quickly and to the point where they fire us to a top 6 finish.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, KegCity said:

Flip side of that is that plenty of players don't ever improve. O'Dowda is a great example.

Agreed, that is the flip side, and there is always a “finding out” period but it didn’t stop people on here going far too early and proclaiming with absolute certainty that Semenyo was a lower league player, one who will be an absolute snip at £10m if he carries on his trajectory.

[fanjita]

I remember watching O’Dowda make his debut at the gate and said to my son at the time “ we’ve got one hell of a player here” 

[The Coach]

2 minutes ago, fanjita said:

I remember watching O’Dowda make his debut at the gate and said to my son at the time “ we’ve got one hell of a player here” 

Remember thinking the same. Probably one of a handful of games he was actually decent. 
 

Has stole a living as a Championship player. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

20 hours ago, spudski said:

Oh yeah...missed that, 1 more goal, 1 more assist, 2 more yellows.

Stunning stats Dave

Luck this isn't an exam Spud.

[Charlie BCFC]

23 hours ago, Fuber said:

Actually thought goal aside he was hopeless against Millwall. Passing, and general link up was hopeless, too much head down not looking.

We looked much improved when Twine came on.

Et tu Hull. Thought he was poor.

Can't recall the last game I would've given him a 7/10, to be honest.

Not one to slate player(s) in general, but don't think he's up to this level. Okay as rotation, but never as a starter, similar to Pato - who I'd argue was a better player in that he positionally was smarter but both lack end product consistency.

Exact kind of player we need to improve upon if we want playoffs imo. One of those with not enough end product overall as it stands to keep his place.

Expect Hirakawa and Twine to give him a rough time for his spot in the team.

I thought he was good regardless of the goal v Millwall and was our biggest threat in the Hull and Willem games. Thought he was decent enough in the cup game, admittedly though Saturday he was poor. 

22 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

How can you compare his performance with that of Twine is a mystery to me

Twine wasn’t at his best against Coventry, not saying Mehmeti was better but that’s the reality of it 

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Luck this isn't an exam Spud.

I wouldn't be at work during an exam bud.

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

You have got to be kidding. JD was as talented a footballer as I’ve seen in my 60 plus years of watching City. AM wouldn’t be fit to clean his boots. He also, having started as an orthodox winger, became a midfield player who was a regular starter in a side that contained the great John Atyeo. When Jantzen left the club, it was to become one of the earliest English players to move to Europe - France, specifically - to play for no less a team than Paris St. German. I’m sorry, but that’s a ridiculous comparison.

I was trying to be not too unkind about Mehmeti and you are perfectly correct about Jantzen. He was a top class in the same side as Atyeo and also driving a dodgem car on the beach at Cleethorpes on a Saturday morning before a match at Grimsby. Oh and Shadow was his passenger. With Fred Ford looking on and laughing. How football has changed!

[CliftonCliff]

44 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I was trying to be not too unkind about Mehmeti and you are perfectly correct about Jantzen. He was a top class in the same side as Atyeo and also driving a dodgem car on the beach at Cleethorpes on a Saturday morning before a match at Grimsby. Oh and Shadow was his passenger. With Fred Ford looking on and laughing. How football has changed!

I've never heard that anecdote before. That made me smile. And to underline your point about how the world has changed, here's a little story I just remembered that I don't think I ever told anyone before.

Bobby 'Shadow' Williams went to school (Marksbury Road) with my older sister. He lived a couple of streets away from our house on Windmill Hill, in Holmesdale Road, I think, adjacent to Victoria Park. All we local kids who hung out together idolised him and loved it when he occasionally strolled over to the park and kicked a ball around with us for a few minutes. He was an unassuming, ordinary, down to earth young guy.

We were all City fans and one Saturday when there was a home match, we thought all our Christmases had come at once when Shadow crammed a bunch of us into his equally modest little car (a Ford Prefect, or something similar) and gave us a lift to the ground. We were ridiculously early, of course, and the old place was still completely empty. Shadow had a quiet word in the ear of the old geezer on the gate and got him to let us in for nothing. Needless to say, we were soon spotted by some official or other (I'd call him a security guy, but I don't think they existed in those days). We were unceremoniously booted out again and had to pay at the turnstile as usual.

Imagine that happening today. Different era, different sport, different planet, almost. It's a fond memory, though. Just thought I'd share.

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, CliftonCliff said:

I've never heard that anecdote before. That made me smile. And to underline your point about how the world has changed, here's a little story I just remembered that I don't think I ever told anyone before.

Bobby 'Shadow' Williams went to school (Marksbury Road) with my older sister. He lived a couple of streets away from our house on Windmill Hill, in Holmesdale Road, I think, adjacent to Victoria Park. All we local kids who hung out together idolised him and loved it when he occasionally strolled over to the park and kicked a ball around with us for a few minutes. He was an unassuming, ordinary, down to earth young guy.

We were all City fans and one Saturday when there was a home match, we thought all our Christmases had come at once when Shadow crammed a bunch of us into his equally modest little car (a Ford Prefect, or something similar) and gave us a lift to the ground. We were ridiculously early, of course, and the old place was still completely empty. Shadow had a quiet word in the ear of the old geezer on the gate and got him to let us in for nothing. Needless to say, we were soon spotted by some official or other (I'd call him a security guy, but I don't think they existed in those days). We were unceremoniously booted out again and had to pay at the turnstile as usual.

Imagine that happening today. Different era, different sport, different planet, almost. It's a fond memory, though. Just thought I'd share.

Different times! From 1960 after leaving school, I was able to go to most away games at weekends and an occasional midweek if I had holiday left. We went by Supporters coach or train and quite often the team were on the train coming back home. We sat with them, talked about everything from football to girls. All the players and Fred Ford were approachable and we respected them if they didn’t want to talk. They were our heroes and they in return appeared to enjoy us being there. I even got a bottle of beer from Bert Tindill and I was only 15 and underage for alcohol- my first beer.

So many memories I ought to write a book!

[Sleepy1968]

8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Different times! From 1960 after leaving school, I was able to go to most away games at weekends and an occasional midweek if I had holiday left. We went by Supporters coach or train and quite often the team were on the train coming back home. We sat with them, talked about everything from football to girls. All the players and Fred Ford were approachable and we respected them if they didn’t want to talk. They were our heroes and they in return appeared to enjoy us being there. I even got a bottle of beer from Bert Tindill and I was only 15 and underage for alcohol- my first beer.

So many memories I ought to write a book!

When I went away in the 90's, I travelled on coach 1, and there was an older chap called Reg who used to tell us stories about travelling to away matches on the team bus in his younger days. I wonder if you knew him?

[cidered abroad]

21 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

When I went away in the 90's, I travelled on coach 1, and there was an older chap called Reg who used to tell us stories about travelling to away matches on the team bus in his younger days. I wonder if you knew him?

Don’t remember that name. But then I can only remember Rob Flicker who ran the Supporters Club bar for a long time and a 12/13 year old Chris Garland. He thought he was a good footballer - did he ever make it?