So, what’s the new expectation?

[Silvio Dante]

Pre season, when people gave predictions they typically ranged from 8th-10th to lower mid table. Since that point, we have added in McNally, Earthy, Twine and McGuane, losing TGH. This is a touch different from the limited business we were expecting from early summer announcements.

So, has the dial moved? I think we can safely say the coach has now been backed more than anyone else since LJ, and we were starting from a solid mid table base. 

In short, what do people now feel are realistic expectations based on the revised backing that has been given. This is different from what you think may happen, as clearly people may think Liam will over or under achieve based on what he has. But, in the context of the takeover position, being given the resources the coach wants and being financially backed - what now is minimum expectation, and what represents real success or failure?

 

[Engvall’s Splinter]

In with a shout of the playoffs at around 40 games. Seems realistic to me. 

[CyderHead92]

Steve has really chipped into that nest egg. They must want a push for top 6 with this money they have spent. Got to be 15/16 million. They will want progress on the pitch and results to match it. I honestly dont think we are in for another season of mid table dross. I reckon 4-8

[Wedontplayinblue]

Personally think that if we arnt 5th to 8th it’s pretty much a failure.

Cant be buying all these players to finish bang on mid table again. 

[ExiledAjax]

Transfer (net) spend really doesn't have much of a correlation (let alone confirmed causation) to finishing position. It's wage budget that does that. Are these signings high wage players? Has our average wage per player increased? Doubtful really.

So therefore...not much change for me. I still think we're a natural 7th - 10th with an outside chance of top 6 if we're lucky or other teams are unlucky.

I do think that the team is now Mannings and so he now takes some culpability for any "failure", but I don't think 10th will represent failure. Below that...yes.

But...early, very early, signs are that we might concede a few more and score a few more than last season. Maybe that results in more points. Maybe it doesn't.

Edited August 30 by ExiledAjax

[Mr Hankey]

Think it has to be play-offs now personally (back in the beginning of July i wouldn't of been saying that!) with the signings and spending. Added in to the fact that the 3 relegated (Burnley aside) & promoted teams not looking like they are going to be taking the division by storm, it really has to be an aim to be top 6.

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Transfer (net) spend really doesn't have much of a correlation (let alone confirmed causation) to finishing position.

Might not have a correlation, but certainly raises expectations.

[Wedontplayinblue]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Transfer (net) spend really doesn't have much of a correlation (let alone confirmed causation) to finishing position. It's wage budget that does that. Are these signings high wage players? Has our average wage per player increased? Doubtful really.

So therefore...not much change for me. I still think we're a natural 7th - 10th with an outside chance of top 6 if we're lucky or other teams are unlucky.

But...early, very early, signs are that we might concede a few more and score a few more than last season. Maybe that results in more points. Maybe it doesn't.

If these players are not likely to cause any improvement whats the point in buying them? 

[KegCity]

Top 10, having remained close to the play-offs whilst continuing to play better football than last season.

Happy for Manning to build this season.

[Puckle_red]

Manning has been heavily backed and beyond. I don't think anybody expected us to invest in the squad this heavily.

Anything less than top 6 is failure, surely everybody sees that?

I predicted 19th about a month ago, but the silly money we seem to have splashed changes everything. I don't think we will finish top 6, but I think Manning has to.

[2015]

With the amount of money spent it should be aiming for the top 6, if not this season then definitely next season. If we can't then it's a failure with the amount of money being spent.

I then don't want the Manager (if we do fail) after to then cop the flak for club transfer cut backs because of the previous regime like we saw under NP.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8th-10th.

Have to be pushing for the playoffs surely. Whether we get in has so many variables but..maybe it is a 2 year Project, retaining as many developing young players as possible, look to really fine tune and ice the cake next season while aiming as high as we can this.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Wedontplayinblue said:

If these players are not likely to cause any improvement whats the point in buying them? 

Natural churn of contract terms, age, and squad happiness. Or maybe Manning just wants certain players instead of those he inherited.

I'm sure they've not been brought in with the intention of making us worse.

[LondonBristolian]

19 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

In with a shout of the playoffs at around 40 games. Seems realistic to me. 

Agree with this.

I don't think it's just about position - there's a big difference between being 8th and 9 points off the play-offs or 9th and 2 points off. I think we'd have to mount a meaningful play-off challenge to meet expectations.

And, whilst @ExiledAjaxis absolutely right that the amount of money a team spends does not impact on where teams finish as much as people often assume, it has a massive impact on where that club's board expect them to finish...

Edited August 30 by LondonBristolian

[OldlandReddies]

Still minimum of 8th but pushing for those 5th/6th spots but more expectation now rather than hope. We are certainly going for it. Very young team. Lets hope they are as hungry as us for success. 

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

Agree with this.

I don't think it's just about position - there's a big difference between being 8th and 9 points off the play-offs or 9th and 2 points off. I think we'd have to mount a meaningful play-off challenge to meet expectations.

And, whilst @ExiledAjaxis absolutely right that the amount of money a team spends does not impact on where teams finish as much as peopl often assume, it has a massive impact on where that club's board expect them to finish...

Which would represent a failure of board/human logic and projection rather than the coaching team's ability. 

If the board are going to make such a judgement then perhaps the board should invest in some psychological sessions in order to understand and calibrate the way they measure success?

[Natchfever]

14 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Pre season, when people gave predictions they typically ranged from 8th-10th to lower mid table. Since that point, we have added in McNally, Earthy, Twine and McGuane, losing TGH. This is a touch different from the limited business we were expecting from early summer announcements.

So, has the dial moved? I think we can safely say the coach has now been backed more than anyone else since LJ, and we were starting from a solid mid table base. 

In short, what do people now feel are realistic expectations based on the revised backing that has been given. This is different from what you think may happen, as clearly people may think Liam will over or under achieve based on what he has. But, in the context of the takeover position, being given the resources the coach wants and being financially backed - what now is minimum expectation, and what represents real success or failure?

 

I thought about 14th end of last season but would expect us to finish about 10th now after having flirted with the playoffs post xmas.

[EmersonsKev]

Top 10 finish, the chance that all the players gel and be effective quickly is low. 

 

The only saving grace would be that a fair number have played under LM before. 

[Harry]

In November 2023 we were advised that the squad was “top end” and we signed Manning to “push us on”. 
 

Since then we have spent a good deal of money and Liam has been able to sign 8 first team players (Bird, Mayulu, Armstrong, Twine, McGuane, McNally, Yu & Earthy). 
 

I shall be expecting playoffs minimum. 

Edited August 30 by Harry

[CyderHead92]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

8th-10th.

Have to be pushing for the playoffs surely. Whether we get in has so many variables but..maybe it is a 2 year Project, retaining as many developing young players as possible, look to really fine tune and ice the cake next season while aiming as high as we can this.

You say 2 year project pop but, I see as a 1 year proper go at it because any players who have really good seasons will be sold. Then it's back to square 1. I reckon we got to really crack the whip and go for it personally.

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Natural churn of contract terms, age, and squad happiness. Or maybe Manning just wants certain players instead of those he inherited.

I'm sure they've not been brought in with the intention of making us worse.

I think that’s “the biggest bit” for me.

Considering the normal shelf life of a manager, it’s unusual for any coach to get exactly the players they want. And it’s even more unlikely when that coach has been in place for less than a year - and to reiterate, has been indifferent to date.

It seems to me that the club have bet the house on Liam. And some of that, as I’ve said before, I think is smart manoeuvring  on Liams part as he realised they couldn’t let him fail. But what that then leads into is natural expectation.

For any coach, if you took over a solid mid table side and were then given a large number of players to utilise that supported your style, I think the expectation has to be top six. And it’s correct there to say style remains equally as important.

 

[KegCity]

8 minutes ago, Puckle_red said:

Manning has been heavily backed and beyond. I don't think anybody expected us to invest in the squad this heavily.

Anything less than top 6 is failure, surely everybody sees that?

I predicted 19th about a month ago, but the silly money we seem to have splashed changes everything. I don't think we will finish top 6, but I think Manning has to.

It's not that black and white for me, if we're playing good football and considerably closer to the top 6 than last season that's a success.

It doesn't have to be this season or bust for Manning, if we're progressing we can continue to build going into next season.

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

In November 2023 we were advised that the squad was “top end” and we signed Manning to “push us on”. 
 

Since then we have spent a good deal of money and Liam has been able to sign 8 first team players (Bird, Mayulu, Armstrong, Twine, McGuane, McNally, Yu & Earthy). 
 

I shall be expecting playoffs minimum. 

Broadly agree - I think we do need to separate the bull of last October as it wasn’t a “top end” squad - it was in a realistic view a solid mid table one. But totally correct to say Liam was brought in to push us on, and has been backed. So, whether “top end” or “mid table” at appointment, then the expectation has to be the same.

[Aslanovic]

Still think we’re shy of a regular goalscorer to be top 6. Time will tell, but more excited than I have been for a while.

[petehinton]

Need to be within touching distance of the top 6 throughout the season. 

[formerly known as ivan]

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Transfer (net) spend really doesn't have much of a correlation (let alone confirmed causation) to finishing position. It's wage budget that does that. Are these signings high wage players? Has our average wage per player increased? Doubtful really.

So therefore...not much change for me. I still think we're a natural 7th - 10th with an outside chance of top 6 if we're lucky or other teams are unlucky.

I do think that the team is now Mannings and so he now takes some culpability for any "failure", but I don't think 10th will represent failure. Below that...yes.

But...early, very early, signs are that we might concede a few more and score a few more than last season. Maybe that results in more points. Maybe it doesn't.

Not sure that’s quite right. You are spending money on players to achieve your aim, ours being promotion. 

I would hope we haven’t spent £10-£15m in the hope we finish 10th!

[BasSavage88]

14 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Top 10, having remained close to the play-offs whilst continuing to play better football than last season.

Happy for Manning to build this season.

This. Then play offs next year minimum

[Selred]

Last season we finished 11th. 11 points from play offs.

We've since lost (1st teamers), Midfield: James, King, TGH. Strikers: Conway, Weimann.

Brought in, Defence: McNally. Midfield: Bird, McGuane, Twine, Earthy, Yu. Strikers: Armstrong, Fally.

I feel we are defensively, and in midfield stronger than last season (although I rated James highly). Upfront to be confirmed, still feel we may be a bit raw and missing some of the Tommy magic. 

I'll be happy if we finish around 8th (young squad who will grow together), would like to be knocking on the play offs door really.

 

[lenred]

10 minutes ago, Harry said:

In November 2023 we were advised that the squad was “top end” and we signed Manning to “push us on”. 
 

Since then we have spent a good deal of money and Liam has been able to sign 8 first team players (Bird, Mayulu, Armstrong, Twine, McGuane, McNally, Yu & Earthy). 
 

I shall be expecting playoffs minimum. 

You’re not allowed to use those quotes from the board on this forum.  Apparently they didn’t mean anything and only idiots would’ve believed them! 
 

[harrymoorman]

Think we need to finish 8th or higher for it to count as a successful season. Would like to be in the mix for play-offs right up to final day. Money spent you could argue that higher is needed but it's a young squad still and will take time to gel. Worry we might lack goal threat but let's see.

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think that’s “the biggest bit” for me.

Considering the normal shelf life of a manager, it’s unusual for any coach to get exactly the players they want. And it’s even more unlikely when that coach has been in place for less than a year - and to reiterate, has been indifferent to date.

It seems to me that the club have bet the house on Liam. And some of that, as I’ve said before, I think is smart manoeuvring  on Liams part as he realised they couldn’t let him fail. But what that then leads into is natural expectation.

For any coach, if you took over a solid mid table side and were then given a large number of players to utilise that supported your style, I think the expectation has to be top six. And it’s correct there to say style remains equally as important.

It's also unusual for a manager to come into a club in the state that we were in after selling Scott and Semenyo last season.

The club had a cushion/war chest/net egg whatever. It had money in the bank. We also had a solid, if not spectacular, squad. We had a board that had always planned to change manager sometimes in the back end of 23/24 season. 

I think these factors created a pretty nice petri dish for the new staff. They had to get through last season, and just about did so thanks to the little flurry of results post-Easter. They have now been given some reward. 

But, if this leads to natural expectation then we should be intelligent to ask if it is correct to accept those expectations. Lots of things happen naturally, but we stop them because they're not useful. High expectations based on perceived or real "backing" is not always going to be useful because neither simple net transfer spend nor number of players recruited/sold is a reliable indicator of success.

[Colemanballs]

18 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Transfer (net) spend really doesn't have much of a correlation (let alone confirmed causation) to finishing position. It's wage budget that does that. Are these signings high wage players? Has our average wage per player increased? Doubtful really.

I totally get and agree with your point but...

[flippant]Awesome. So let's give all our current players huge pay rises to guarantee promotion. [/flippant]

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, CyderHead92 said:

You say 2 year project pop but, I see as a 1 year proper go at it because any players who have really good seasons will be sold. Then it's back to square 1. I reckon we got to really crack the whip and go for it personally.

Let's not. They're young, they are contracted for a decent length of time.. let's just not sell at the first opportunity unless we've really gambled on FFP which I doubt we have.

I'd say there is scope for a 2 year window personally albeit potential to review and bring sales forward in January 2026 if we're going nowhere fast by then. 

[ExiledAjax]

13 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Not sure that’s quite right. You are spending money on players to achieve your aim, ours being promotion. 

I would hope we haven’t spent £10-£15m in the hope we finish 10th!

You may hope that. I hope that too. 

But hope is not equal to expectation.

It's unreasonable to peddle a hope as an expectation, and then judge someone for failing against that hope, when all data and knowledge indicates that to do so is erroneous.

Edited August 30 by ExiledAjax

[formerly known as ivan]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

You may hope that. I hope that too. 

But hope is not equal to expectation.

It's unreasonable to peddle a hope as an expectation, and then judge someone for failing against that hope, when all data and knowledge indicates that to do so is erroneous.

Valid point. I should have said “I wouldn’t expect us to spend £10-£15m to finish 10th”

[Tinmans Love Child]

For me we just need to go for it every game, even at the expense of say gaining a point, getting a few more wins and taking those risks is the only way we push on, yeh we will lose some along the way, but what the hell!  Playoffs just I think

[Hocca]

With this squad I would really fancy us in every game and expect us to be extremely competitive in each fixture home and away. Especially with Burnley and Leeds significantly weaker now than they were a few weeks ago. Let’s have a good go whilst playing attractive football in the process and I’m sure we’ll be top 8 at least.

[Fuber]

36 minutes ago, CyderHead92 said:

Steve has really chipped into that nest egg. They must want a push for top 6 with this money they have spent. Got to be 15/16 million. They will want progress on the pitch and results to match it. I honestly dont think we are in for another season of mid table dross. I reckon 4-8

Don't think it's been that much.

Based of averages of reported fees that I've seen mentioned at least.

Twine, Mayulu, Armstrong - probably about £7m up to £9m with add ons.

Bird counts against 23/24 accounts.

Hirakawa and Earthy both loans and related fees.

Balanced against incoming fees for Conway (circa £4m-£5m), the. You have wages balanced by King retiring; James leaving along with Weimann on decent wages (circa £12kpw-£17kpw) who will have been on more than Bird and Knight comparatively when each were signed.

Think we're seeing a net spend of up to £4m and slight increase in wages depending on wages of those loaned out that weren't last season (Knight Lebel, Yeboah, Araoye, etc)

Signing McNally pushes up my (personal) expectations as then we'll likely be looking at over £10m with add ons spent with very good depth.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Hocca said:

With this squad I would really fancy us in every game and expect us to be extremely competitive in each fixture home and away. Especially with Burnley and Leeds significantly weaker now than they were a few weeks ago. Let’s have a good go whilst playing attractive football in the process and I’m sure we’ll be top 8 at least.

Leeds it is hard to say as they rapidly scrambling to fill gaps.

Burnley well their scenario is well..even when before the near firesale their underlying numbers were much worse than their results.

[GrahamC]

Top 8, outside chance of top six now.

Not what I expect to happen but what we should expect.

[CyderHead92]

1 minute ago, Fuber said:

Don't think it's been that much.

Based of averages of reported fees that I've seen mentioned at least.

Twine, Mayulu, Armstrong - probably about £7m up to £9m with add ons.

Bird counts against 23/24 accounts.

Hirakawa and Earthy both loans and related fees.

Balanced against incoming fees for Conway (circa £4m-£5m), the. You have wages balanced by King retiring; James leaving along with Weimann on decent wages (circa £12kpw-£17kpw) who will have been on more than Bird and Knight comparatively when each were signed.

Think we're seeing a net spend of up to £4m and slight increase in wages depending on wages of those loaned out that weren't last season (Knight Lebel, Yeboah, Araoye, etc)

Signing McNally pushes up my (personal) expectations as then we'll likely be looking at over £10m with add ons spent with very good depth.

Fair enough. When it's all laid out like that, it's easier to see it. But what I must say is, it feels like we are adding real quality to the squad. And I'd say apart from GK we have people pushing for every position. No one is safe from being ousted.

[Silvio Dante]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's also unusual for a manager to come into a club in the state that we were in after selling Scott and Semenyo last season.

The club had a cushion/war chest/net egg whatever. It had money in the bank. We also had a solid, if not spectacular, squad. We had a board that had always planned to change manager sometimes in the back end of 23/24 season. 

I think these factors created a pretty nice petri dish for the new staff. They had to get through last season, and just about did so thanks to the little flurry of results post-Easter. They have now been given some reward. 

But, if this leads to natural expectation then we should be intelligent to ask if it is correct to accept those expectations. Lots of things happen naturally, but we stop them because they're not useful. High expectations based on perceived or real "backing" is not always going to be useful because neither simple net transfer spend nor number of players recruited/sold is a reliable indicator of success.

I agree with the last paragraph, and the intangibles are obviously injuries, form etc - the depth of the squad now should insulate us from many negative consequences.

I think the bottom line here has to be that we were in a place of having a solid mid table squad, and the backing has been done to turn that into a higher status - whether it’s guaranteed or not.

The expectation therefore has to reflect that, the same as it would in the real world. If I was managing a company and I said to the board “give me exactly what I want to your already solid company performance, and in return for your additional investment, I’ll deliver only nominal improvement” then I’m not sure it would fly. So the expectation has to reflect that. Particularly if you add in one of our key planks (utilise the academy) won’t happen - so the ramp up of other expectations is more than reasonable.

[Red Exile]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Top 8, outside chance of top six now.

Not what I expect to happen but what we should expect.

Agreed - and it rekindles a bit of hope - on the strength of which I've bought a ticket to Blackburn! 

Keeping in touch with the top 6 would be a decent season for me.

[ExiledAjax]

13 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Valid point. I should have said “I wouldn’t expect us to spend £10-£15m to finish 10th”

Fair enough. I think you're wrong to tie your expectations to our raw transfer "spend".

I love that we've spent a bit. It's absolutely the season to do so and I've been looking forward to this summer window for years, and certainly since Vyner, Pring and O'Leary came through and then when we sold Semenyo and then Scott. This season has looked like the target "******* go for it" season for a while. So I'm happy.

I think I was also quite optimistic compared to most in July. I said 8-10th, maybe 6th with a fair wind and some luck. That's good right? I'm still at that level personally.

But expectations should be based on more than just £X spent. I look around at the division, at our first handful of games, at the actual players we've got, at the way we played last season (yes I know we beat Southampton)...and I'm just not sure we can reasonably set 6th place as the definitive expectation against which the club (let's be honest the head coach) is then judged.

4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

The expectation therefore has to reflect that, the same as it would in the real world. If I was managing a company and I said to the board “give me exactly what I want to your already solid company performance, and in return for your additional investment, I’ll deliver only nominal improvement” then I’m not sure it would fly.

I disagree. Whilst I'd not expect them to promise only nominal improvement, I'd not crucify them If that was all that happened. Caveated with the fact that if I give that to a junior then all I expect is them to use the resources properly, work hard, be open if they feel that they are failing, and be honest with me. Any result that comes from that is what it is. 

The anger comes if they don't work hard, and don't deliver on those expected "behaviours" (wink wink), that's when they've failed my expectations.

Ps. I hope we win the whole ******* thing.

Edited August 30 by ExiledAjax

[eardun]

Not sure that the signing of McNally moves the dial significantly given Dickie’s injury, especially if he’s out for a while. Pleased we have brought him in though as we need that depth. 

[ChippenhamRed]

We finished 11th last season. Surely this sort of cash injection into the playing squad has got to be worth five places?

Struggling to see how anything other than a play off finish justifies the spend.

[2015]

29 minutes ago, Selred said:

Last season we finished 11th. 11 points from play offs.

We've since lost (1st teamers), Midfield: James, King, TGH. Strikers: Conway, Weimann.

Brought in, Defence: McNally. Midfield: Bird, McGuane, Twine, Earthy, Yu. Strikers: Armstrong, Fally.

I feel we are defensively, and in midfield stronger than last season (although I rated James highly). Upfront to be confirmed, still feel we may be a bit raw and missing some of the Tommy magic. 

I'll be happy if we finish around 8th (young squad who will grow together), would like to be knocking on the play offs door really.

 

If by magic you mean penalties then maybe

[ExiledAjax]

49 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

Might not have a correlation, but certainly raises expectations.

If it's got no correlation then why allow your expectations to be raised?

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Pre season, when people gave predictions they typically ranged from 8th-10th to lower mid table. Since that point, we have added in McNally, Earthy, Twine and McGuane, losing TGH. This is a touch different from the limited business we were expecting from early summer announcements.

So, has the dial moved? I think we can safely say the coach has now been backed more than anyone else since LJ, and we were starting from a solid mid table base. 

In short, what do people now feel are realistic expectations based on the revised backing that has been given. This is different from what you think may happen, as clearly people may think Liam will over or under achieve based on what he has. But, in the context of the takeover position, being given the resources the coach wants and being financially backed - what now is minimum expectation, and what represents real success or failure?

 

I predicted 11th, I've changed it to 8th

[Roe]

44 minutes ago, EmersonsKev said:

Top 10 finish, the chance that all the players gel and be effective quickly is low.

To be successful as a team, the players have to gel quickly. That's just the reality of football now for every team

Otherwise the best players will get picked out and move on, older players may regress and injuries will happen elsewhere

[Red from afar]

If we can avoid any of those prolonged losing runs, I'm hoping we'll be in touching distance of the playoffs come the business end of the season. 

If we can at the very least finish close and look good while doing so, it might tempt a few players who wouldn't normally look to join us in the next window or two.

[FNQ]

We’ve made some good signings, especially Max Bird and the two boys upfront. But to have any chance of a sustained challenge this season we need to toughen up mentally, physically and tactically at the back, we’re conceding too many, too easily. Hopefully McNally will prove to be an on field leader as well as a solid player in defence.
To maintain momentum I also think that Liam needs to pick his strongest team and stick with it, only making changes in a game as circumstances dictate as opposed to, for example, routinely starting with Sinclair and switching to Fally on the hour.. with the new signings he’ll now also be forced to do something similar with the midfield as he’ll have similar selection dilemmas.

Before the season started I thought we’d finish poorly at 18th.. We look like creating and scoring more now with our new signings in midfield and upfront but for me at the moment defence remains a weakness, so who knows? 10th?

[chinapig]

30 minutes ago, lenred said:

You’re not allowed to use those quotes from the board on this forum.  Apparently they didn’t mean anything and only idiots would’ve believed them! 
 

Or only idiots would have made those claims perhaps.

So they either actually believed what they said and were deluded or they were lying.

[One Team]

43 minutes ago, Harry said:

In November 2023 we were advised that the squad was “top end” and we signed Manning to “push us on”. 
 

Since then we have spent a good deal of money and Liam has been able to sign 8 first team players (Bird, Mayulu, Armstrong, Twine, McGuane, McNally, Yu & Earthy). 
 

I shall be expecting playoffs minimum. 

“We all wanted Nigel to achieve our ambition to be promoted but, with our recent results, feel that now is the time to make a change to give the club the best possible chance of success.” Jon Lansdown, 29/10/23

I agree Harry, even without the statements from Lansdown last season (which I think most would say were deluded at best), given how much backing there has been this summer it’s play offs as a minimum for me in terms of expectation. 

You would think with the foundations and then investment that would be Lansdown’s expectation too, else it would just be maintaining the mid table position of the last few seasons. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

We finished 11th last season. Surely this sort of cash injection into the playing squad has got to be worth five places?

Struggling to see how anything other than a play off finish justifies the spend.

Well to be fair it is still a very competitive division. This is on paper which may not be reflected on grass.

Coventry for example although we outplayed them are in go for it mode. They look to have a deep and strong squad IMO with an age range including one if not 2 Prime Year strikers.

Middlesbrough look to have lost nobody of note and have strengthened. No real excuses possible there. Did some of their outbound business brought forward in Janaury.

4 Parachute Clubs albeit look to be in a bit of a state of flux collectively albeit they are still Parachute Clubs.

Sunderland albeit still early, I expect them to improve markedly on last year. Losing Clarke late on is a blow.

Hull, Norwich, WBA...varying degrees of transition or churn.

Edited August 30 by Mr Popodopolous

[City oz]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Pre season, when people gave predictions they typically ranged from 8th-10th to lower mid table. Since that point, we have added in McNally, Earthy, Twine and McGuane, losing TGH. This is a touch different from the limited business we were expecting from early summer announcements.

So, has the dial moved? I think we can safely say the coach has now been backed more than anyone else since LJ, and we were starting from a solid mid table base. 

In short, what do people now feel are realistic expectations based on the revised backing that has been given. This is different from what you think may happen, as clearly people may think Liam will over or under achieve based on what he has. But, in the context of the takeover position, being given the resources the coach wants and being financially backed - what now is minimum expectation, and what represents real success or failure?

 

5th or 6th finish. However maybe not successful in the playoffs. This season will be a great grounding for possible promotion next season. 

[Davefevs]

@ExiledAjax agree about fees, but also this isn’t just about wage bill individually (because I think we’ll have kept broadly to our structure), but wage bill overall will’ve gone up a fair chunk due to the depth of squad created.

I broadly define it as a “no excuses” season.

Bristol City need to be giving it a right old go this season.  All teams are having to gel squads together, so it’s not a valid excuse for me. Just get on with it.

I’m not in “playoffs or sack” territory, but he’s gotta be right in the mix.  This season’s Championship could be a tight affair, so it’s gonna difficult to say we need x points or y league position.  If we are sensible and true to ourselves we will know whether it’s been a good season or not, whether that be tangible or intangible.

Its certainly moved my dial upwards of what I thought “par” should be.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Going into the last game with a chance of play offs. 

[Rudolf Hucker]

Mid-table finish. Win the FA Cup and qualify for Europe. 

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@ExiledAjax agree about fees, but also this isn’t just about wage bill individually (because I think we’ll have kept broadly to our structure), but wage bill overall will’ve gone up a fair chunk due to the depth of squad created.

Is "a fair chunk" enough to put us top 6 for wage bill? I suspect not quite. Maybe close...maybe 7th - 10th - I am sure Swiss Ramble, Maguire et al will do some post-mortem stuff on the estimated picture post transfer window. I've said on other threads that I am much happier having a broader pool of talent rather than a few spikes of ability.

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I broadly define it as a “no excuses” season.

Bristol City need to be giving it a right old go this season.  All teams are having to gel squads together, so it’s not a valid excuse for me. Just get on with it.

As I say, I'm glad we have gone for it a bit, at least on paper. And I agree there's no excuses for not working to reflect that attitude on the pitch. There's no excuses for changing something if it doesn't work. There's no excuse for not owning a mistake or for failing to recognise something that is blatant and clear. But we know the fine margins that can ultimately decide where the points go. Get on with it yes, and yes show me the underlying numbers that demonstrate the foundation for success, but if we repeatedly get unlucky then we need to be wise enough to recognise that as well. That's not going to be an excuse, but it could be a reason.

We are absolutely set up for success this season. But I don't accept that being so means we must expect or demand it.

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not in “playoffs or sack” territory, but he’s gotta be right in the mix.  This season’s Championship could be a tight affair, so it’s gonna difficult to say we need x points or y league position.  If we are sensible and true to ourselves we will know whether it’s been a good season or not, whether that be tangible or intangible.

Of course you aren't, you're a sensible, rational person who understands that success in football is more than just the Pts column of a table that doesn't even determine anything until the whistle goes at the end of the 46th game. You know what you're looking for "beneath" the results, I know what I am looking for. I know what will indicate that we might be going to have a good season. 

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Its certainly moved my dial upwards of what I thought “par” should be.

Oh don't tease. You were on 13th before iirc...what are you saying now? 12th? 10th? 2nd?

[Bar BS3]

Below 10th will be disappointing.

8th-10th progress, but so it should be.

7th - exciting but frustrating.

3th-6th - excellent everyone can be really pleased with themselves, whatever happens in the playoffs.

Top 2 - absolutely outstanding & beyond anyone's hopes or expectations.

Promotion by any means & Manning will be a legend.

Fail in the playoffs & he'll have done a great job but we will all be really disappointed & he & our best players will likely get poached away.

 

[Sleepy1968]

9 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Going into the last game with a chance of play offs. 

Well, that's something my heart's definitely going to be able to cope with

I still haven't quite got over Gordon Owen's penalty miss.

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

We finished 11th last season. Surely this sort of cash injection into the playing squad has got to be worth five places?

Struggling to see how anything other than a play off finish justifies the spend.

Other clubs have spent milions but they can't all be successful just because they've spent money. Clubs have to spend in this division just to be competitive or to maintain Championship status, its not a given that spend alone equals play-offs or promotion - there are so many different factors that will have an input. Finishing last season in 11th was really good given all the circumstances and a lot of credit is due to the previous regime in laying the foundations over a couple of seasons as well as Manning and his staff in the latter part of last season.

I think this season we now have a squad with good depth in numbers (provided all are available), whether it is strong enough in terms of quality remains to be seen. However, the first few games look very promising imo, lets hope that we can get a bit of consistency this season and start to put 90+ minute performances together. If so, then an expectation of anywhere between 4th - 10th is reasonable (I think there are at least three teams who will definitely finish in front of us). 

I predicted around 12th before the signings started coming in and I didn't realise just how good Max Bird is, I think Armstrong is a lot less raw than I thought and Mayulu looks promising.  

 

[Sleepy1968]

I'll take playing with complete confidence, attacking quickly and effectively, and defending robustly.

Over the season this should mean we are in the mix for the play-offs.

And I'd rather we failed going for it than trying to limp into 6th place.

Then I've no expectations in the play-offs as long as we don't bottle it.

[Lakeside Red]

With the players manning has brought in got to aim top six now 

[Steve Watts]

Club expectations, my expectations and my aspirations are different things.

With the squad investment I think the club will be expecting a big play off push.  My aspirations would be top 9.  My expectations though are still top 12 at best.  Fair play to the club for providing the tools they think are required to push on, but I am still to be convinced in Mannings ability to utilise those tools successfully.

My hope is that over the coming months I begin to be convinced.

[lenred]

42 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Or only idiots would have made those claims perhaps.

So they either actually believed what they said and were deluded or they were lying.

I’d say a mixture of both.  Just a muddled mess! 

[sh1t_ref_again]

With signings expectation levels rise, but in reality everyone else is also making changes to varying degrees, so you have to change just to stand still.

Overall the players look exciting and hopefully they do not take long to gel and reach the potential, as with increased expectation, crowd frustration may also be a result if results are poor in the short term.

I do think we have enough to be towards / in the playoffs, but as ever with city sure to be a bumpy ride

[David Brent]

We’ve certainly invested enough to expect those 8 points that Tinnion wanted. 

I expect us to be in with a shout of playoffs with a couple of games left, at least. 

[Gert Mare]

I’ve mentioned it before that with our best 11 on the pitch we are more than a match for any team in this division this season.

However, at City we always seem to be plagued by injuries to key players and we have our share of misfortune and failure to give us penalty decisions.

Based on all the usual factors I think we’ll finish between 10th and 14th.

if we steer clear of injuries and get a bit of momentum we should expect to be in the top 10.

[Baba Yaga]

Would like to see them in the playoff mix when the season gets to the run in, however it would be no surprise to see them upper mid table like last season. If Manning gets more right than wrong throughout the season and the team are fortunate with injuries then they should be capable of getting very close.