Derby County away match thread

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

17 hours ago, maxjak said:

You'll need a large amount of indigestion tablets?   Good Luck?

About five gallons of bismuth and chlorodyne.

[Bazooka Joe]

Bristol Comms annoucement: At this week's Karaoke event, Liam Manning will sing Michael Jackson's "Bad".

Song suggestions for yesterday's other let-downs are welcomed.

[Jerseybean]

BP verdict, https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-verdict-armed-not-9523133

[CliftonCliff]

20 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

BP verdict, https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-verdict-armed-not-9523133

That's a fair and balanced report that some on here would do well to heed when this morning's hangover wears off.

[Mr Popodopolous]

This snippet is interesting.

Ironically still mid tableish underlying numbers, just with better attack and Possession!

A slight regression, but still middling.

[cotswoldred2]

17 hours ago, cotswoldred2 said:

After what this country has experienced in just a few weeks you have an skewed view on things. Surely a profession such as your demands that you serve the Govt not blab about hate and investigating what you think is worthy whilst ignoring real crimes. 

This is further proof of this creeping move to a  2 tier police state, it's your duty to serve not campaign for any political party. How else can we trust our cops?# to be even handed?

And he laughs, but I expected nothing more, indicative of the contempt they have for us.

[RedM]

On 31/08/2024 at 14:35, BCFC31 said:

Do we know how long dickie is out for? Bound to be 6 months ?

I was told '2 or 3' months earlier this week. That's why I thought McNally was 'just' a loan to cover this, as I heard about him at the same time.

[8 men had a dream]

On 31/08/2024 at 17:12, Fordy62 said:

We all know why though don’t we?

No I don't - why was that Fordy?

[22A]

Now the game is over I had a  look to see what they thought. https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/43314-bristol-city-h-match-thread/page/32/#comments

 I don't think there's any "possible" about it. They WERE rubbish. That doesn't take away from our performance however, even the w*nkest of teams still need to be dispatched, and Brizzle WERE dispatched. Ruthlessly. And let's be fair, it could easily have been 5 or 6. They're the w*nkest team we've played in the league so far this season. By some distance.

https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/43314-bristol-city-h-match-thread/page/33/#comments

I wouldn't say they were rubbish, because they threw a lot of us to start the game and had a very clear threat and if not for some very good goalkeeping and blocks by the defence could have blown us away before we'd even got out of the blocks. Some better finishing would have helped them of course but their shots still hit the target. What was rubbish was their response to be outmuscled by Ozoh and Adams and their ability to think on their feet once our pressing started to crush them. Mentally they lost it, physically they couldn't stand up to it. The way he way their attackers refused to shoot on sight and instead waited until the perfect opportunity to shoot too was an issue (general buildup play was good to a point). They probably need more time on their attacking cohesion and I can see them improving over the season. Their cause wasn't helped by Bird (who at one point took an age to turn around and play a pass I've seen him one-touch before) and Knight seemingly being overawed by their PPS return, but make no mistakes it was our own play from front to back which was the main factor in the victory being so comprehensive.

[8 men had a dream]

On 31/08/2024 at 17:06, Fordy62 said:

I’ve just done a silly thing;

I went onto Steve Lansdown’s Twitter and saw that he retweeted Kemi Badenoch. 

It now all makes sense what a **** he is. 

In fairness - looks like he retweeted that due to the content being about Brexit rather than endorsing Badenoch

[Fordy62]

3 hours ago, 8 men had a dream said:

No I don't - why was that Fordy?

He’s a Nige man. 

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, 22A said:

Now the game is over I had a  look to see what they thought. https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/43314-bristol-city-h-match-thread/page/32/#comments

 I don't think there's any "possible" about it. They WERE rubbish. That doesn't take away from our performance however, even the w*nkest of teams still need to be dispatched, and Brizzle WERE dispatched. Ruthlessly. And let's be fair, it could easily have been 5 or 6. They're the w*nkest team we've played in the league so far this season. By some distance.

https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/43314-bristol-city-h-match-thread/page/33/#comments

I wouldn't say they were rubbish, because they threw a lot of us to start the game and had a very clear threat and if not for some very good goalkeeping and blocks by the defence could have blown us away before we'd even got out of the blocks. Some better finishing would have helped them of course but their shots still hit the target. What was rubbish was their response to be outmuscled by Ozoh and Adams and their ability to think on their feet once our pressing started to crush them. Mentally they lost it, physically they couldn't stand up to it. The way he way their attackers refused to shoot on sight and instead waited until the perfect opportunity to shoot too was an issue (general buildup play was good to a point). They probably need more time on their attacking cohesion and I can see them improving over the season. Their cause wasn't helped by Bird (who at one point took an age to turn around and play a pass I've seen him one-touch before) and Knight seemingly being overawed by their PPS return, but make no mistakes it was our own play from front to back which was the main factor in the victory being so comprehensive.

This should be sent to the club . Once again, the amateurs see it . 

[NickNick58]

I was there. I felt that they had 4 big lumps ( as in Armstrong) who initially strongarmed us off the ball and physically dismantled us.  After winning the war the lumps started to interact very well between each other and all of a sudden, the game was lost and we started to disintergate. Physicalility was our undoing.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Did they do it fairly is a key question.

Some debate about whether the ref was up to scratch, that can help to set a tone.

[1960maaan]

26 minutes ago, NickNick58 said:

I was there. I felt that they had 4 big lumps ( as in Armstrong) who initially strongarmed us off the ball and physically dismantled us.  After winning the war the lumps started to interact very well between each other and all of a sudden, the game was lost and we started to disintergate. Physicalility was our undoing.

Just watched the first hour again , does look they leave something on in every challenge. Might be a nudge or push, but every time they could they made contact. We got very little from the Ref while it felt like he gave them some very soft free kicks.

That hour went as I remembered it. Up to their first goal , we were by fat the better team . From their goal it was a bit more even but we still created chances and played some really nice stuff.  Derby did really well getting blocks on some really good chances, though maybe Twine could have done better. Good seeing the Armstrong cross shot again, it happened too quickly at the time and I didn't realise how well he did and what a good shot it was. 
I may watch the rest tomorrow, but we were chasing the game then and you kind of expect us to be more open and leave spaces.  I think there were just a few things that weren't working as well as in previous games. 
Hopefully Manning can tweak things over the break and we can get a result at Blackburn. 

[Back of the Dolman]

50 minutes ago, NickNick58 said:

I was there. I felt that they had 4 big lumps ( as in Armstrong) who initially strongarmed us off the ball and physically dismantled us.  After winning the war the lumps started to interact very well between each other and all of a sudden, the game was lost and we started to disintergate. Physicalility was our undoing.

I read today that Ozoh is only 19, I thought he’d maybe been signed from abroad and was older than that but he’s on loan from Palace.

Be interesting to see how he progresses 

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Just watched the first hour again , does look they leave something on in every challenge. Might be a nudge or push, but every time they could they made contact. We got very little from the Ref while it felt like he gave them some very soft free kicks.

That hour went as I remembered it. Up to their first goal , we were by fat the better team . From their goal it was a bit more even but we still created chances and played some really nice stuff.  Derby did really well getting blocks on some really good chances, though maybe Twine could have done better. Good seeing the Armstrong cross shot again, it happened too quickly at the time and I didn't realise how well he did and what a good shot it was. 
I may watch the rest tomorrow, but we were chasing the game then and you kind of expect us to be more open and leave spaces.  I think there were just a few things that weren't working as well as in previous games. 
Hopefully Manning can tweak things over the break and we can get a result at Blackburn. 

Key bit, are we getting an even crack from officials this season or are other sides just better at it than us atm?

Edited September 2 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Edit, an unnecessary swipe by me.

Edited September 2 by Mr Popodopolous

[1960maaan]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Key bit, are we getting an even crack from officials this season or are other sides just better at it than us atm?

I don't think we have had a fair crack , as you put it , but this is obviously from my biased perspective. I think it is more likely that the standard of Refereeing is poor rather than anything sinister . 
As for sides being better , well , I honestly believe with a bit better choices/finishing and yes luck , we could have won every game. Stick with me on this.
Hull , moment of madness by Williams when we looked comfortable.
Millwall , did our best to throw it away but got the breaks in this one.
Coventry , could have killed the game and an awkward ball for Tanner fell to the wrong man in the box. 
Derby , on another day Twine & Armstrong finish one of the good chances that fell to them, we go a goal up and I think we win . 

All ifs, buts and slightly rose tinted views maybe, but I think we have played well in long spells. While we have had reasons to question what goes on at half time previously, we were still well in the game at 1-0 Saturday. Williams Penalty shout could go either way , Twine has shots blocked and we were every bit as good as Derby for the first 15/20 of the 2nd half. Their 2nd goal kills the game and we have to chase. But we were good for an hour.

I don't think there is any agenda, though looking at the Ref ( I thought it was hands ) for the Tanner Pen , the Millwall assault on Armstrong and others , it can feel like that. 
Wonder if we have had any letters yet.

[TDarwall]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I don't think we have had a fair crack , as you put it , but this is obviously from my biased perspective. I think it is more likely that the standard of Refereeing is poor rather than anything sinister . 
As for sides being better , well , I honestly believe with a bit better choices/finishing and yes luck , we could have won every game. Stick with me on this.
Hull , moment of madness by Williams when we looked comfortable.
Millwall , did our best to throw it away but got the breaks in this one.
Coventry , could have killed the game and an awkward ball for Tanner fell to the wrong man in the box. 
Derby , on another day Twine & Armstrong finish one of the good chances that fell to them, we go a goal up and I think we win . 

All ifs, buts and slightly rose tinted views maybe, but I think we have played well in long spells.

The truth is, it's all fine margins isn't it? At the time I thought Sinclairs cross for Mehmeti v Millwall was great play. Watching it back, he does great to get in position but the cross itself was poor & the defender should have dealt with it. He didnt, Mehmeti scores & it becomes a good cross!

Inevitably the outcome dictates how we perceive the game. I'm pleased that we are making chances through our own good play, but concerned we're not taking enough of them & the trade off is that we're easier to score against.

 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I don't think we have had a fair crack , as you put it , but this is obviously from my biased perspective. I think it is more likely that the standard of Refereeing is poor rather than anything sinister . 
As for sides being better , well , I honestly believe with a bit better choices/finishing and yes luck , we could have won every game. Stick with me on this.
Hull , moment of madness by Williams when we looked comfortable.
Millwall , did our best to throw it away but got the breaks in this one.
Coventry , could have killed the game and an awkward ball for Tanner fell to the wrong man in the box. 
Derby , on another day Twine & Armstrong finish one of the good chances that fell to them, we go a goal up and I think we win . 

All ifs, buts and slightly rose tinted views maybe, but I think we have played well in long spells. While we have had reasons to question what goes on at half time previously, we were still well in the game at 1-0 Saturday. Williams Penalty shout could go either way , Twine has shots blocked and we were every bit as good as Derby for the first 15/20 of the 2nd half. Their 2nd goal kills the game and we have to chase. But we were good for an hour.

I don't think there is any agenda, though looking at the Ref ( I thought it was hands ) for the Tanner Pen , the Millwall assault on Armstrong and others , it can feel like that. 
Wonder if we have had any letters yet.

The joys and frustrations of a low-scoring sport.

Just dragging it off-piste…

Sofascore do some really good data on the flow of the game, here are our 4 league games so far.

Manning talks about control (he loves control), and in these charts we see that we do appear to have the balance on control in most games…no arguments there.  But could it not be that we are being allowed to control.  Last season Manning himself said (paraphrased) “just because we don’t have the ball doesn’t mean we don’t have control - you can have control out of possession”.  So it’s something for him to consider, are teams letting City come on to them?  So they can exploit the gaps?

In 22/23, I wrote a piece on Twitter about Swansea (Russell Martin) in how they had high possession, high control, but conceded a disproportionately high number of chances to relatively low opposition possession…and good chances at that.

That is something very much like City in a 4-game sample.  Definitely one to keep an eye on.

City are currently ranked:

3rd - possession

2nd - passes in opposition half

1st - Field Tilt (passes in opposition half versus opposition passes in our half)

yet…

21st - xG conceded (only 3 worse)

17th - shots conceded

In football possession doesnt seem to be 9/10ths of the law!

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I don't think we have had a fair crack , as you put it , but this is obviously from my biased perspective. I think it is more likely that the standard of Refereeing is poor rather than anything sinister . 
As for sides being better , well , I honestly believe with a bit better choices/finishing and yes luck , we could have won every game. Stick with me on this.
Hull , moment of madness by Williams when we looked comfortable.
Millwall , did our best to throw it away but got the breaks in this one.
Coventry , could have killed the game and an awkward ball for Tanner fell to the wrong man in the box. 
Derby , on another day Twine & Armstrong finish one of the good chances that fell to them, we go a goal up and I think we win . 

All ifs, buts and slightly rose tinted views maybe, but I think we have played well in long spells. While we have had reasons to question what goes on at half time previously, we were still well in the game at 1-0 Saturday. Williams Penalty shout could go either way , Twine has shots blocked and we were every bit as good as Derby for the first 15/20 of the 2nd half. Their 2nd goal kills the game and we have to chase. But we were good for an hour.

I don't think there is any agenda, though looking at the Ref ( I thought it was hands ) for the Tanner Pen , the Millwall assault on Armstrong and others , it can feel like that. 
Wonder if we have had any letters yet.

Agreed. The overall standard of officiating has been such a level that Stroud has been impressive.

Possibly could've had one or two penalties of our own.

Not sure about 12, thought 7 on balance prior to Saturday, taking all games as a weighted average- Saturday is difficult to say as had we scored first as an Away side vs a relatively physical side who are best when they themselves are ahead, we could've perhaps exploited them on the break a goal to the good.

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

The joys and frustrations of a low-scoring sport.

Just dragging it off-piste…

Sofascore do some really good data on the flow of the game, here are our 4 league games so far.

Manning talks about control (he loves control), and in these charts we see that we do appear to have the balance on control in most games…no arguments there.  But could it not be that we are being allowed to control.  Last season Manning himself said (paraphrased) “just because we don’t have the ball doesn’t mean we don’t have control - you can have control out of possession”.  So it’s something for him to consider, are teams letting City come on to them?  So they can exploit the gaps?

In 22/23, I wrote a piece on Twitter about Swansea (Russell Martin) in how they had high possession, high control, but conceded a disproportionately high number of chances to relatively low opposition possession…and good chances at that.

That is something very much like City in a 4-game sample.  Definitely one to keep an eye on.

City are currently ranked:

3rd - possession

2nd - passes in opposition half

1st - Field Tilt (passes in opposition half versus opposition passes in our half)

yet…

21st - xG conceded (only 3 worse)

17th - shots conceded

In football possession doesnt seem to be 9/10ths of the law!

The funny thing is there @Davefevs using my Shot Data from Fbref, all average out at fairly middling. When you add all categories up and divide by the number.

The challenge I suppose is to keep the improved areas as strong as possible while improving the Shots Allowed (Less Shots Allowed, Goals usually follow) in the first instance.

I suppose the 2 penalties can see the XG against a bit. So far 8 in 48 in the entire division and 2 came in this one.

Edited September 3 by Mr Popodopolous

[1960maaan]

@Davefevs I always think Russell Martin's teams pass for passing sake , something I was worried about when a lot of the early Manning talk was about possession . I have been impressed with some of our progressive passing through the block/lines but I don't think our balance is right yet. 
We have appeared to allow chances for some time , Derby probably missed the better ones and scored with a shot that went through about 18 players. Again , as a work in progress ( and I believe we have progressed ) we need to get the balance right. 
The control is an interesting one , did feel like Derby sat in a little , but I  think we were a big factor in that. The earlier games I don't think they used it as a ploy, though previous years they might have as we did tend to pass along the back 4 before going long , I like to think we have moved past that now. 

What are those figures without the Derby game ? They must be skewed a little as they had what must have been some fairly high XG chances . 
 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

@Davefevs I always think Russell Martin's teams pass for passing sake , something I was worried about when a lot of the early Manning talk was about possession . I have been impressed with some of our progressive passing through the block/lines but I don't think our balance is right yet. 
We have appeared to allow chances for some time , Derby probably missed the better ones and scored with a shot that went through about 18 players. Again , as a work in progress ( and I believe we have progressed ) we need to get the balance right. 
The control is an interesting one , did feel like Derby sat in a little , but I  think we were a big factor in that. The earlier games I don't think they used it as a ploy, though previous years they might have as we did tend to pass along the back 4 before going long , I like to think we have moved past that now. 

What are those figures without the Derby game ? They must be skewed a little as they had what must have been some fairly high XG chances . 
 

I agree re Martin, just using his example as one where he gets players into advanced positions to create overloads…his approach has far less intent, very methodical.

[1960maaan]

30 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed. The overall standard of officiating has been such a level that Stroud has been impressive.

Possibly could've had one or two penalties of our own.

Not sure about 12, thought 7 on balance prior to Saturday, taking all games as a weighted average- Saturday is difficult to say as had we scored first as an Away side vs a relatively physical side who are best when they themselves are ahead, we could've perhaps exploited them on the break a goal to the good.

I quite possibly am being a little "Red eyed" saying we might have won every game, but opportunities were there. Saturday we had quietened their fans and a goal at that time could have really knocked them back. Then being able to keep the ball and have a great outlet like Armstrong comes into it's own. 

All ifs and buts though.

[mozo]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The joys and frustrations of a low-scoring sport.

Just dragging it off-piste…

Sofascore do some really good data on the flow of the game, here are our 4 league games so far.

Manning talks about control (he loves control), and in these charts we see that we do appear to have the balance on control in most games…no arguments there.  But could it not be that we are being allowed to control.  Last season Manning himself said (paraphrased) “just because we don’t have the ball doesn’t mean we don’t have control - you can have control out of possession”.  So it’s something for him to consider, are teams letting City come on to them?  So they can exploit the gaps?

In 22/23, I wrote a piece on Twitter about Swansea (Russell Martin) in how they had high possession, high control, but conceded a disproportionately high number of chances to relatively low opposition possession…and good chances at that.

That is something very much like City in a 4-game sample.  Definitely one to keep an eye on.

City are currently ranked:

3rd - possession

2nd - passes in opposition half

1st - Field Tilt (passes in opposition half versus opposition passes in our half)

yet…

21st - xG conceded (only 3 worse)

17th - shots conceded

In football possession doesnt seem to be 9/10ths of the law!

Thanks for sharing Dave!

Those images to me support what I've seen, which is that we need to be sharper in both boxes.

As 1960maaan pointed out, there have moments of slackness, whether it be defending our box, attacking the other box, and maybe, possibly from the refs.

I like the control personally, I like the opposition to be on the backfoot and chasing. I like our passing, mostly, and I like our press and turnovers.

What I don't like is the slackness. Williams and his brainless foul, Vyner and Pring doing their best to not to block a shot, lots of things in Milwall and Derby!

Then in attack, our shooting and final ball has been wasteful, with the exception of Mayulu. 

I really think maximum points was there for the taking, and players and coaches should look at 5 points as a disappointment, when 7 would have been a minimum.

But hey, we've got a new look side now. Maybe they will fine tune (he prays).

[Silvio Dante]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

 

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

What are those figures without the Derby game ? They must be skewed a little as they had what must have been some fairly high XG chances . 
 

I’m not sure that Derby would be a massive xG skewer. Dont think their three goals would be high xG based on positioning - the one big xG would be the goalmouth scramble on the second half. The one where Max got caught out of position would also be low xG based on position (c35 yards out).

Against that, Hull had a penalty (0.7 xG I think) and missed from very close range first half. Millwall also had the penalty and hit the inside of the post from a good chance. Bizarrely, my eye test says the lowest xG against us was probably Coventry - that plays to the theory on a limited sample that when we do have more of the ball we leave ourselves open to better chances being created against us.

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

the one big xG would be the goalmouth scramble on the second half.

That was the main one I was thinking about , not watched that back so was going on memory and at the time I felt they should have scored twice in the phase. 

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

That was the main one I was thinking about , not watched that back so was going on memory and at the time I felt they should have scored twice in the phase. 

Not put myself through a rewatch either but I think a free kick was given on the second chance which may rule it out of xG.

And I really don’t want to put myself through a rewatch!

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

Not put myself through a rewatch either but I think a free kick was given on the second chance which may rule it out of xG.

And I really don’t want to put myself through a rewatch!

I watched the first hour, up to their 2nd goal , and I thought we played well. Decent game where , again , we didn't capitalise when we were on top . 

I had to wait until yesterday until i'd relaxed a bit though.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I quite possibly am being a little "Red eyed" saying we might have won every game, but opportunities were there. Saturday we had quietened their fans and a goal at that time could have really knocked them back. Then being able to keep the ball and have a great outlet like Armstrong comes into it's own. 

All ifs and buts though.

To me individual games are one thing, the general trajectory of XG, I'm fairly comfortable with 7-8 on the evidence so far.

Derby shaded us in the end for XG, Coventry was about level. Hull was a giveaway and yet that penalty put their XG ahead of us whereas taking penalties out of the equation we win.

[1960maaan]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

To me individual games are one thing, the general trajectory of XG, I'm fairly comfortable with 7-8 on the evidence so far.

Derby shaded us in the end for XG, Coventry was about level. Hull was a giveaway and yet that penalty put their XG ahead of us whereas taking penalties out of the equation we win.

I am a great believer in "goals change games" . Saturday was a prime example , we were the better team but they score through a shot through a crowd and they improved by 10/20 % .
Obvious to say I guess, but we need to start making the most of our good spells. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, 1960maaan said:

I am a great believer in "goals change games" . Saturday was a prime example , we were the better team but they score through a shot through a crowd and they improved by 10/20 % .
Obvious to say I guess, but we need to start making the most of our good spells. 

Agreed to a point.

Said if elsewhere but I think as fans, some of us took them lightly, some of the comments here and on social media did make me think hmm. They'll be difficult at Home..it's possibly not that relevant to the Matchday 11 v 11 but score first perhaps it differs but given the referee didn't penalise them much at all maybe not..we've not held onto a single lead this season either.

[1960maaan]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed to a point.

Said if elsewhere but I think as fans, some of us took them lightly, some of the comments here and on social media did make me think hmm. They'll be difficult at Home..it's possibly not that relevant to the Matchday 11 v 11 but score first perhaps it differs but given the referee didn't penalise them much at all maybe not..we've not held onto a single lead this season either.

Was never going to be an easy game. 
1) My eternal fear of playing promoted sides early.
2) They have a great recent home record. 
3) As you say we are the dog walkers nightmare being unable to hold onto a lead. 

I did think we could / would win , but to be honest that is never a good sign .

[sephjnr]

On 02/09/2024 at 10:50, 8 men had a dream said:

In fairness - looks like he retweeted that due to the content being about Brexit rather than endorsing Badenoch

I'm happy to forego that distinction seeing the only people who endorse(d) it thought they were getting something out of it. 

One more stick onto the SL revisionism pyre.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Was never going to be an easy game. 
1) My eternal fear of playing promoted sides early.
2) They have a great recent home record. 
3) As you say we are the dog walkers nightmare being unable to hold onto a lead. 

I did think we could / would win , but to be honest that is never a good sign .

Tbh, nothing much good about it but it feels a slap in the face, a bucket of cold water.

Performance and result, if you're not quite at it at this level or Idk consciously or otherwise..nothing too much to worry about it hopefully can be of use in the long run. Focus in on certain small holes that became gaping.

I thought it was winnable but tough.

Edited September 3 by Mr Popodopolous