Utter disgrace Manning (LJ) - you’ve been backed and you serve up that?

[Super]

I can't help think there is an overreaction as per usual from the OP. I accept 2nd half was shocking but had Armstrong and Twine buried those very good chances first half the game was ours. You are always likely to pay for missed chances. Let's not panic after 4 games.

[Fjmcity]

14 hours ago, Capman said:

Why do you feel the need to try and belittle everyone else? Does it make you feel important? I  agree with some of what you say, but not all of it. If you check what I have been saying for the last year I have been consistent. I believe the work done over the last 4 years to streamline the squad, get the wage bill under control, bring through young players and make a profit from selling them on gives the club a very unusual opportunity to get to the playoffs. The board made the decision to gamble that opportunity on dispensing of the services of an experienced CEO and Manager and replacing them with novices, they should stand or fall by the success of that decision. If Manning gets us into the playoffs and delivers a realistic chance if promotion I will congratulate the board for a brave but good decision. If he does not I think Jon should do the honourable thing, admit he has failed as Chairman and stand down in favour of someone else. I feel perfectly entitled to his of that view and to express it as often as I like. I am happy for you disagree, giving reasons if you do. But just posting patronising guff and suggesting others are wrong adds nothing. 

I’m just saying, this is generally how it is down in the lower leagues and everyone’s trying to find the winning formula and truly anyone can beat anyone and you would get results like this under any manager. If any slight set back sets you or anyone off truly, check out Man City they are really good and won’t let you down as much!

The good just needs to outweigh the bad at the end of the season and you’re doing alright. Just bloody tiresome for the same boring ******* topics trotting out if someone so much as even misplaces a pass “wouldn’t happen under Pearson” “that’s on you, Jon” 

tbh, the situation at the club is only as bad as you make it depending on your delusions of grandeur about BCFC 

Edited September 1 by Fjmcity

[FNQ]

4 minutes ago, Super said:

I can't help think there is an overreaction as per usual from the OP. I accept 2nd half was shocking but had Armstrong and Twine buried those very good chances first half the game was ours. You are always likely to pay for missed chances. Let's not panic after 4 games.

We were 2 up at home against Millwall and only  just got away with it.. We’re conceding too many goals and should be concerned. I’m not panicking about scoring goals, we’re creating chances and goals will come, but every time that the opposition are on the attack we look nervy and therefore I’m nervous. Just imagine if MOL picks up an injury..

[Tomo]

No panic but if you include the cup game, it's effectively 1PPG, 6 scored, 9 conceded.

Not good is it. 

[Super]

16 minutes ago, FNQ said:

We were 2 up at home against Millwall and only  just got away with it.. We’re conceding too many goals and should be concerned. I’m not panicking about scoring goals, we’re creating chances and goals will come, but every time that the opposition are on the attack we look nervy and therefore I’m nervous. Just imagine if MOL picks up an injury..

We need to tighten up for sure and we don't look quite right in midfield.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Is worth noting that vs Millwall, for all the excellence of the at start..

..They were our only two Shots of the First Half. Only two Shots on Target in the First Half.

There were signs, they hit the Post a moment in which we got lucky.

Edited September 1 by Mr Popodopolous

[petehinton]

My general advice re Manning, would be to try and get used to it, or just accept that you’ll never like him. 
 

The way Pearson and co left was disgraceful, the way the club communicated to the fans was disgraceful, airing dirty laundry was disgraceful. 
 

But if you think they went through all that, got knocked back by their first two choices to replace Nige, and then proceed to back Manning in the way they have done over the last few windows, just to sack him early on in his first full season, I have two hopes for you. No matter how much you’d long for it. It’d take a hell of a losing streak, over a long period, for it to even be a possibility. 

Edited September 1 by petehinton

[Mr Popodopolous]

@petehinton

Who were the first two choices?

Edited September 1 by Mr Popodopolous

[cidercity1987]

4 minutes ago, petehinton said:

My general advice re Manning, would be to try and get used to it, or just accept that you’ll never like him. 
 

The way Pearson and co left was disgraceful, the way the club communicated to the fans was disgraceful, airing dirty laundry was disgraceful. 
 

But if you think they went through all that, got knocked back by their first two choices to replace Nige, and then proceed to back Manning in the way they have done over the last few windows, just to sack him early on in his first full season, I have two hopes for you. No matter how much you’d long for it. It’d take a hell of a losing streak, over a long period, for it to even be a possibility. 

Mousinho and ???

[cotswoldred2]

That defeat hurt, a lot, for me it was the one when we had to show we are serious about promotion, an average Derby out fought us, the manager outwitted Liam with his set up. But imagine being a Toffee this morning?

How do you bury that, the Forest game came close though.

Do have a kid in the club knocking on the door to fill another striker option?

 

[petehinton]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@petehinton

Who were the first two choices?

 

5 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Mousinho and ???

Eustace 

[M.D]

8 minutes ago, petehinton said:

My general advice re Manning, would be to try and get used to it, or just accept that you’ll never like him. 
 

The way Pearson and co left was disgraceful, the way the club communicated to the fans was disgraceful, airing dirty laundry was disgraceful. 
 

But if you think they went through all that, got knocked back by their first two choices to replace Nige, and then proceed to back Manning in the way they have done over the last few windows, just to sack him early on in his first full season, I have two hopes for you. No matter how much you’d long for it. It’d take a hell of a losing streak, over a long period, for it to even be a possibility. 

This is what I was trying to say in a previous post when I stated that some people won't accept Manning due to the NP sacking, but one poster branded my post as pathetic.

Im not convinced with LM at all but we need to put the past behind us and judge him over a run of games.

Personally, I don't think LM will work at this club but he needs a chance to prove it one way or the other.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 Games feels a good barometer to me.

It would be literally a League season and or year give or take, 46 Games- to see how we are progressing or otherwise.

[cidercity1987]

11 minutes ago, petehinton said:

 

Eustace 

How did we manage to get rejected by an out of work manager who then went to work for Venkys? That is embarrassing 

[Superjack]

25 minutes ago, petehinton said:

My general advice re Manning, would be to try and get used to it, or just accept that you’ll never like him. 
 

The way Pearson and co left was disgraceful, the way the club communicated to the fans was disgraceful, airing dirty laundry was disgraceful. 
 

But if you think they went through all that, got knocked back by their first two choices to replace Nige, and then proceed to back Manning in the way they have done over the last few windows, just to sack him early on in his first full season, I have two hopes for you. No matter how much you’d long for it. It’d take a hell of a losing streak, over a long period, for it to even be a possibility. 

This.

I fully expect him to be here as long as Johnson was. 

It would take relegation. And I'm not even sure that he wouldn't survive that.

[lenred]

26 minutes ago, petehinton said:

 

Eustace 

Really?  Is that nailed? Never realised.  What a shame if so but can’t blame him.  Must be bad if he’s happy to work for the Venkys but not the Lansdown’ family! 

[spudski]

The one thing I've noted with LM is his demeanor when we win, compared to when we lose or experience an awful performance.

It's like Jekle and Hyde.

All smiles and look how great we are ..to sheepish, defensive, lack of eye contact, mumbling and big swallowing gulps.

He's an Apprentice at this level...learning his trade. 

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Just now, spudski said:

The one thing I've noted with LM is his demeanor when we win, compared to when we lose or experience an awful performance.

It's like Jekle and Hyde.

All smiles and look how great we are ..to sheepish, defensive, lack of eye contact, mumbling and big swallowing gulps.

He's an Apprentice at this level...learning his trade. 

Wonder how that translates into the dressing room.

[Numero Uno]

21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

15 Games feels a good barometer to me.

It would be literally a League season and or year give or take, 46 Games- to see how we are progressing or otherwise.

For me, you can see the change in style and it does have positives in the way we look with the ball. However we now have issues without the ball and over the next half a dozen or so games I want to see how Liam addresses those issues.

[Northern Red]

8 minutes ago, Superjack said:

This.

I fully expect him to be here as long as Johnson was. 

It would take relegation. And I'm not even sure that he wouldn't survive that.

People used to say this about LJ but ultimately he was fired from the sort of position we're not a million miles off now.

Not a chance Manning gets that long. For starters there's no personal tie to the Lansdowns in the way that LJ had.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

For me, you can see the change in style and it does have positives in the way we look with the ball. However we now have issues without the ball and over the next half a dozen or so games I want to see how Liam addresses those issues.

Some of it is quite enjoyable yep, we have lost something as well though. The 2 v 1 leaving Pring exposed is increasingly apparent.

Hopefully we will retain some of what we have now, start to improve the conversion rate and improve on some areas out of Possession over the next month or 2.

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

People used to say this about LJ but ultimately he was fired from the sort of position we're not a million miles off now.

Not a chance Manning gets that long. For starters there's no personal tie to the Lansdowns in the way that LJ had.

We'll see.

[Barrs Court Red]

37 minutes ago, Superjack said:

This.

I fully expect him to be here as long as Johnson was. 

It would take relegation. And I'm not even sure that he wouldn't survive that.

Cant see it. I don’t think he was a million miles from the chop last season, but the post Easter spell saved him. A bad run of form, and it’s going to get toxic quickly. 
 

Given how thin skinned the leadership are, they won’t like it when a significant amount of shite flys their way. 

[Superjack]

4 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Given how thin skinned the leadership are, they won’t like it when a significant amount of shite flys their way. 

Unfortunately, they don't give a **** what we 'plebs' think.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

50 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

People used to say this about LJ but ultimately he was fired from the sort of position we're not a million miles off now.

Not a chance Manning gets that long. For starters there's no personal tie to the Lansdowns in the way that LJ had.

He doesn’t have the personal tie, but 100% of Jon Lansdown’s and Brian Tinnion’s credibility is tied to him. That counts for a lot.

[Northern Red]

29 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

He doesn’t have the personal tie, but 100% of Jon Lansdown’s and Brian Tinnion’s credibility is tied to him. That counts for a lot.

Yeah maybe. Though I reckon they'd drop Tinnion like a stone if it saves their own skin.

[steviestevieneville]

20 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Achieving league positions the last two managers haven't managed?

Lack of context tbh. Pearson was never going to achieve 11 th having to rip apart , rebuild a squad with little money & blooding the kids. 

[The Coach]

How pissed are we going to be when Wrexham overtake us? With x2 owners who knew very little of football when taking the club over.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Lack of context tbh. Pearson was never going to achieve 11 th having to rip apart , rebuild a squad with little money & blooding the kids. 

With a big negative Net Spend in fact to add to that.

@Davefevs has mentioned it in the past I tbink, but I'd love to know the net Figure of Net Spend plus Wage Savings in the NP era. Possibly could even throw reduced Amortisation into the mix.

Was one hell of a Cost Saving probably- yet both the Points, League Position and underlying numbers improved.

Edited September 1 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Lack of context tbh. Pearson was never going to achieve 11 th having to rip apart , rebuild a squad with little money & blooding the kids. 

To further add to your point.

Manning inherited...

11th Place.

1.4 PPG

40% Win Ratio.

He just about maintained the level. That level being NP plus the Fleming game.

Edited September 1 by Mr Popodopolous

[Gol]

22 hours ago, PortInTheMorning said:

"Start by playing your number 10 you chased for 3 months in his number 10 role. Play Bird as a 6, drop Williams or Knight, one or other, start Yu and Armstrong wide and Fally in the middle. Stop pushing our left back forward as a left winger, it’s clear teams are targeting us here, come on, you’ve got a strong squad here and we should not be being thrashed at newly promoted sides!"

 

Agree with most of this

Great post! I feel with the pring situation he is trying to play like Ipswich did last season with  Broadhead cutting in from the left and using Leif Davis as a wing back. The issue is Pring does not seem to want to go on his marauding runs this season which means its not working. 
 

if he wants to continue with this formation Bird needs to drop into midfield and twine plays as a 10. If you want both to play we need to play a 3-4-2-1 like last season though with Pring being out of form and McCrorie injured we don’t have the wingbacks to do this.

1 win in 4 and out of the cup is a poor return for the start of the season, especially for the investment this summer. Hopefully we can sort it out quickly.

[PortInTheMorning]

3 minutes ago, Gol said:

Great post! I feel with the pring situation he is trying to play like Ipswich did last season with  Broadhead cutting in from the left and using Leif Davis as a wing back. The issue is Pring does not seem to want to go on his marauding runs this season which means its not working. 
 

if he wants to continue with this formation Bird needs to drop into midfield and twine plays as a 10. If you want both to play we need to play a 3-4-2-1 like last season though with Pring being out of form and McCrorie injured we don’t have the wingbacks to do this.

1 win in 4 and out of the cup is a poor return for the start of the season, especially for the investment this summer. Hopefully we can sort it out quickly.

Thanks but I think you should be quoting and praising ST...:laugh:

 

I just stated I agree with most of what he said. 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

20 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I can't remember the poster, might have been you who said SL said something like he likes to run things with a Committee of One- himself.

That quote periodically sticks in the mind.

And also 'It's my club and I will do what I like'

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, Superjack said:

Unfortunately, they don't give a **** what we 'plebs' think.

I think they really do though. In a way. They won't listen to our thoughts, opinions, or advice - and I appreciate this might be the meaning you're getting at.

But, they absolutely, one hundred percent, crave our adulation and support. They want to be liked, loved even, but on their terms.

Edited September 1 by ExiledAjax

[REDOXO]

Bloody hell! We serve up crap for 55 minutes after conceding a goal when we should have been three up and just fell apart. 
 

We had a player playing as a number ten who isn’t while our real number ten was wide. Consequently they were tripping over each other as the wide bloke naturally drifted in. Pring is playing with the hand brake still on, Knight was anonymous, Armstrong couldn’t score a one on one if my Mrs was in goal. Naismith is a waste at center back. Williams looks knackered after sixty and obviously finds it difficult to concentrate as he is the only one who puts in a strong tackle in midfield

What the **** has any of that got to do with Nigel effing Pearson. 
 

Christ Alive. Us being shit yesterday is down to how we played, which is down to the players, coach and manager/head coach not a ******* ghost!

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Gol said:

Great post! I feel with the pring situation he is trying to play like Ipswich did last season with  Broadhead cutting in from the left and using Leif Davis as a wing back. The issue is Pring does not seem to want to go on his marauding runs this season which means its not working. 
 

if he wants to continue with this formation Bird needs to drop into midfield and twine plays as a 10. If you want both to play we need to play a 3-4-2-1 like last season though with Pring being out of form and McCrorie injured we don’t have the wingbacks to do this.

1 win in 4 and out of the cup is a poor return for the start of the season, especially for the investment this summer. Hopefully we can sort it out quickly.

Yep, copycat!!!

See this tweet from Jon Dolman and my reply.

 

[Redrascal2]

"It wasn't us" was a statement from Manning after the defeat at Derby. Maybe he needs to understand that is us. That is his team and tactics after a full preseason and good backing in the transfer market.If he realises that then hopefully he can improve them.

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I think they really do though. In a way. They won't listen to our thoughts, opinions, or advice - and I appreciate this might be the meaning you're getting at.

But, they absolutely, one hundred percent, crave our adulation and support. They want to be liked, loved even, but on their terms.

I don't even like or love them on my terms.

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Bloody hell! We serve up crap for 55 minutes after conceding a goal when we should have been three up and just fell apart. 
 

We had a player playing as a number ten who isn’t while our real number ten was wide. Consequently they were tripping over each other as the wide bloke naturally drifted in. Pring is playing with the hand brake still on, Knight was anonymous, Armstrong couldn’t score a one on one if my Mrs was in goal. Naismith is a waste at center back. Williams looks knackered after sixty and obviously finds it difficult to concentrate as he is the only one who puts in a strong tackle in midfield

What the **** has any of that got to do with Nigel effing Pearson. 
 

Christ Alive. Us being shit yesterday is down to how we played, which is down to the players, coach and manager/head coach not a ******* ghost!

Everton being shite has nothing to do with Howard Kendall (who if you believe, is actually a ghost).

To be fair, I don't think it has anything to do with Sean Dyche either. 

It's more to do with their ownership.

Oh...wait...

Edited September 1 by Superjack

[REDOXO]

21 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Everton being shite has nothing to do with Howard Kendall (who if you believe, is actually a ghost).

To be fair, I don't think it has anything to do with Sean Dyche either. 

What's your point?

You need me to explain? 
 

There is a constant theme regarding how supporters (on here or not and on Podcasts) think a large minority of supporters have an axe to grind with Liam Manning because there is an underlying support of Nigel Pearson. Plenty written today!

This has yet again been trotted out on FBC and on here.
 

That now appears to be the bait and switch position following an awful display in the second half yesterday and other justified criticism….See some other posts….

Look over there it’s only Pearson people who are complaining, seems to be a theme now.  My dog chases less squirrels! 
 

I don’t know any City fans that have an axe to grind with Mr Manning for any other reason except shit performances (like he and Williams stated that yesterday was)  

I like to win and City supporters want to win that’s why we keep coming back!

 

 

 

Edited September 1 by REDOXO

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

You need me to explain? 
 

There is a constant theme regarding how supporters (on here or not and on Podcasts) think the a large minority of supporters have an axe to grind with Liam Manning because there is an underlying support of Nigel Pearson. Plenty written today!

This has yet again been trotted out on FBC and on here. That now appears to be the bait and switch position following an awful display in the second half yesterday and other justified criticism….See some other posts….

Look over there it’s only Pearson people who are complaining, seems to be a theme now.  My dog chases less squirrels! 
 

I don’t know any City fans that have an axe to grind with Mr Manning for any other reason except shit performances (like he and Williams stated that yesterday was)  

I like to win and City supporters want to win that’s why we keep coming back!

 

 

 

Yeah sorry. I know and agree. 

Hence the edit.

[MarcusX]

7 hours ago, Super said:

I can't help think there is an overreaction as per usual from the OP. I accept 2nd half was shocking but had Armstrong and Twine buried those very good chances first half the game was ours. You are always likely to pay for missed chances. Let's not panic after 4 games.

Agreed, I’ve slept on it and ultimately it’s one bad game. We got smashed 6-0 at ipswich in our play off season, sometimes it happens in this league.

It was bad, but time to put it right

[Gol]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, copycat!!!

See this tweet from Jon Dolman and my reply.

 

Great minds think alike! I think if we are going to proceed with this tactic, roberts would be a better option for LCB (unless mcnally is quick, I don't know).

Edited September 1 by Gol

[Sir Geoff]

5 hours ago, The Coach said:

How pissed are we going to be when Wrexham overtake us? With x2 owners who knew very little of football when taking the club over.

About this time next year I would imagine.

[The Coach]

6 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

About this time next year I would imagine.

What I’m thinking.

[Major Isewater]

On 31/08/2024 at 18:15, Andy082005 said:

This manager has been backed to the hilt

Sort of . He has got his dream player in Twine. He obviously thinks that the lad is good enough to be a success in a promotion seeking Championship side. ( Although strangely Burnley didn’t)

Other than that he has a huge amount of work to do on the other signings. Not one would find themselves on a list of ‘must haves’ for a club which purports to have top six ambitions. 
He has the bodies to fill the squad but are they better than what we have or let go ? 
He has to mould them pdq into a unit capable of mounting a challenge or his job will be under threat. 
 

[samo II]

18 hours ago, petehinton said:

My general advice re Manning, would be to try and get used to it, or just accept that you’ll never like him. 
 

The way Pearson and co left was disgraceful, the way the club communicated to the fans was disgraceful, airing dirty laundry was disgraceful. 
 

But if you think they went through all that, got knocked back by their first two choices to replace Nige, and then proceed to back Manning in the way they have done over the last few windows, just to sack him early on in his first full season, I have two hopes for you. No matter how much you’d long for it. It’d take a hell of a losing streak, over a long period, for it to even be a possibility. 

Nailed it here, tbh.

Looking at our squad independent of any context I don’t personally believe we have the players to compete top six.

Add in the previous experience of the manager/coaching team, that doesn’t enhance things.

But in the specific context of the last few years and direction of the club, I don’t think that places Manning in any immediate jeopardy unless results are absolutely bottom of the league stuff for a sustained period, which I while standing by us not looking like promotion material, I also don’t think is likely based on players/manager.

He’s learning, a lot of the players are learning, and we don’t recruit known commodities for this level, so am anticipating another 12th to 9th-ish finish, then seeing who was deemed good enough by promotion contenders/bottom third prem to sell so we can find a clutch more players with potential to rinse repeat next year.

Call me a cynic but that feels like the plan/pattern we’re locked into.

Edited September 2 by samo II

[Bristol Oil Services]

On 01/09/2024 at 03:01, BristolGit said:

The reaction on here is absolutely embarrassing. Let’s write Luton off too.

We’ve got to be up there with some of the worst fan base in the league 

Probably, mate. Who would you say is down there with some of the best?

[Ian M]

The main concern I have about Manning is his ability to react to momentum shifts during games.

From what we can see, the players seem to like him, he works well with recruitment to bring in good players, and he can come up with solid tactical plans to start games strongly.

However, my concerns started last season when he mentioned something like, “once a game has started, there’s very little a coach can do to impact the result.” This season, there’s a worrying trend:

• Hull: Started strong, but Hull made changes and finished stronger.
• Coventry: Started strong, but Coventry made changes and finished stronger.
• Millwall: Started strong, Millwall made changes but then sat back, and we finished stronger.
• Coventry: Started strong, but Coventry made changes and finished stronger.
• Derby: Started strong, but Derby made changes and finished stronger.

It’s clear that Manning can analyse how a team plays and think tactically to our advantage, but is this only when he has ample time? Does he struggle with in-game adjustments? His substitutions seem formulaic, often just broadly like-for-like swaps to in order to stick to the original plan. If that plan isn’t working, we’re left hoping one of the subs has an outstanding performance to turn things around.

This isn’t about missing Nige, as he wasn’t, in my opinion, particularly great in this area either, though slightly better than Liam on the evidence so far. Tins says Liam is learning on the job, and he does show decent tactical insight ahead of games, so I’m not completely resigned to him never positively affecting games. But as a ‘career coach’ who’s been at this for a while, you’d hope he’d be better at it by now.

If we aim to challenge the top teams, we need to see more evidence of Liam making effective in-game changes. I hate that we’re heading into an international break after a poor performance, as it will likely keep the mood here pretty low and combative.

[exAtyeoMax]

On 01/09/2024 at 12:50, petehinton said:

 

Eustace 

I thought so at the time, I saw it said on Twitter that he had rejected us, but someone on here said the LM was first choice. I didn't actually ever believe that LM was first choice though for some reason.

[exAtyeoMax]

11 minutes ago, Ian M said:

The main concern I have about Manning is his ability to react to momentum shifts during games.

From what we can see, the players seem to like him, he works well with recruitment to bring in good players, and he can come up with solid tactical plans to start games strongly.

However, my concerns started last season when he mentioned something like, “once a game has started, there’s very little a coach can do to impact the result.” This season, there’s a worrying trend:

• Hull: Started strong, but Hull made changes and finished stronger.
• Coventry: Started strong, but Coventry made changes and finished stronger.
• Millwall: Started strong, Millwall made changes but then sat back, and we finished stronger.
• Coventry: Started strong, but Coventry made changes and finished stronger.
• Derby: Started strong, but Derby made changes and finished stronger.

It’s clear that Manning can analyse how a team plays and think tactically to our advantage, but is this only when he has ample time? Does he struggle with in-game adjustments? His substitutions seem formulaic, often just broadly like-for-like swaps to in order to stick to the original plan. If that plan isn’t working, we’re left hoping one of the subs has an outstanding performance to turn things around.

This isn’t about missing Nige, as he wasn’t, in my opinion, particularly great in this area either, though slightly better than Liam on the evidence so far. Tins says Liam is learning on the job, and he does show decent tactical insight ahead of games, so I’m not completely resigned to him never positively affecting games. But as a ‘career coach’ who’s been at this for a while, you’d hope he’d be better at it by now.

If we aim to challenge the top teams, we need to see more evidence of Liam making effective in-game changes. I hate that we’re heading into an international break after a poor performance, as it will likely keep the mood here pretty low and combative.

That has always been my concern. You need a tactical maestro. He's too much like LJ and GS for my liking

[David Brent]

13 minutes ago, Ian M said:

The main concern I have about Manning is his ability to react to momentum shifts during games.

From what we can see, the players seem to like him, he works well with recruitment to bring in good players, and he can come up with solid tactical plans to start games strongly.

However, my concerns started last season when he mentioned something like, “once a game has started, there’s very little a coach can do to impact the result.” This season, there’s a worrying trend:

• Hull: Started strong, but Hull made changes and finished stronger.
• Coventry: Started strong, but Coventry made changes and finished stronger.
• Millwall: Started strong, Millwall made changes but then sat back, and we finished stronger.
• Coventry: Started strong, but Coventry made changes and finished stronger.
• Derby: Started strong, but Derby made changes and finished stronger.

It’s clear that Manning can analyse how a team plays and think tactically to our advantage, but is this only when he has ample time? Does he struggle with in-game adjustments? His substitutions seem formulaic, often just broadly like-for-like swaps to in order to stick to the original plan. If that plan isn’t working, we’re left hoping one of the subs has an outstanding performance to turn things around.

This isn’t about missing Nige, as he wasn’t, in my opinion, particularly great in this area either, though slightly better than Liam on the evidence so far. Tins says Liam is learning on the job, and he does show decent tactical insight ahead of games, so I’m not completely resigned to him never positively affecting games. But as a ‘career coach’ who’s been at this for a while, you’d hope he’d be better at it by now.

If we aim to challenge the top teams, we need to see more evidence of Liam making effective in-game changes. I hate that we’re heading into an international break after a poor performance, as it will likely keep the mood here pretty low and combative.

Which is why when it goes well we’re brilliant and when it doesn’t go well we’re atrocious. There doesn’t seem to be any in between. 

I’ve seen plenty of the good to be optimistic but plenty of the bad to be worried too. 

It’s how I play Football Manager. Changing from ‘Positive’ to ‘Attacking’ is the limit to my in game management.

[Steve Watts]

34 minutes ago, Ian M said:

The main concern I have about Manning is his ability to react to momentum shifts during games.

From what we can see, the players seem to like him, he works well with recruitment to bring in good players, and he can come up with solid tactical plans to start games strongly.

However, my concerns started last season when he mentioned something like, “once a game has started, there’s very little a coach can do to impact the result.” This season, there’s a worrying trend:

He's not even right with that.  He seems to impact the result over a 15 minute period in the middle of the match....just not the sort of impact anyone wants!

Edited September 2 by Steve Watts

[Shauntaylor85]

1 minute ago, Steve Watts said:

He's not even right with that.  He seems to impact the perormance over a 15 minute period in the middle of the match....just not the sort of impact anyone wants!

I notice even M Withers who says he knows he comes across as a happy clapper is fed up with the 60th minute subs like for like! It’s so predictable. The opposition can clearly work out from the rigid in game management what to do to hurt us. 

[Shauntaylor85]

Brighton constantly get it right don’t they on the coaching front. They were superb again on Saturday. The overseas market is one to consider for sure for our next move. Still think we haven’t recovered from Benny! Albeit Benny did a lot of good work behind the scenes (like Nige). 

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, Ian M said:

The main concern I have about Manning is his ability to react to momentum shifts during games.

From what we can see, the players seem to like him, he works well with recruitment to bring in good players, and he can come up with solid tactical plans to start games strongly.

However, my concerns started last season when he mentioned something like, “once a game has started, there’s very little a coach can do to impact the result.” This season, there’s a worrying trend:

• Hull: Started strong, but Hull made changes and finished stronger.
• Coventry: Started strong, but Coventry made changes and finished stronger.
• Millwall: Started strong, Millwall made changes but then sat back, and we finished stronger.
• Coventry: Started strong, but Coventry made changes and finished stronger.
• Derby: Started strong, but Derby made changes and finished stronger.

It’s clear that Manning can analyse how a team plays and think tactically to our advantage, but is this only when he has ample time? Does he struggle with in-game adjustments? His substitutions seem formulaic, often just broadly like-for-like swaps to in order to stick to the original plan. If that plan isn’t working, we’re left hoping one of the subs has an outstanding performance to turn things around.

This isn’t about missing Nige, as he wasn’t, in my opinion, particularly great in this area either, though slightly better than Liam on the evidence so far. Tins says Liam is learning on the job, and he does show decent tactical insight ahead of games, so I’m not completely resigned to him never positively affecting games. But as a ‘career coach’ who’s been at this for a while, you’d hope he’d be better at it by now.

If we aim to challenge the top teams, we need to see more evidence of Liam making effective in-game changes. I hate that we’re heading into an international break after a poor performance, as it will likely keep the mood here pretty low and combative.

Out of interest, what did you think Derby changed?

They didn’t make any subs until 74th minute.

I just watched the first half over lunch (bugger for punishment), I didn’t see any discernible change from them per se.

[Steve Watts]

Just now, Shauntaylor85 said:

I notice even M Withers who says he knows he comes across as a happy clapper is fed up with the 60th minute subs like for like! It’s so predictable. The opposition can clearly work out from the rigid in game management what to do to hurt us. 

So far we've been decent for the opening 20 mins of matches and then drop off.  He gets them in the dressing room at half time and somehow manages to make things even worse.  I'm half convinced that he doesn't actually give a half time team talk, instead thinking there's no point because the game has already been mapped out before the game even starts.  His substitute decisions are so rigid and it makes opposition managers lives easy.  

[exAtyeoMax]

7 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

I notice even M Withers who says he knows he comes across as a happy clapper is fed up with the 60th minute subs like for like! It’s so predictable. The opposition can clearly work out from the rigid in game management what to do to hurt us. 

Gary Owers and co mentioned the same on Radio Bristol

[White Stripe]

On 01/09/2024 at 11:56, Super said:

I can't help think there is an overreaction as per usual from the OP. I accept 2nd half was shocking but had Armstrong and Twine buried those very good chances first half the game was ours. You are always likely to pay for missed chances. Let's not panic after 4 games.

Not guaranteed, if our weak starts to second halves are anything to go by - that almost did for us v Millwall.

Update - just read the threads above, which render mine here pointless.  

Edited September 2 by White Stripe

[White Stripe]

On 01/09/2024 at 12:40, petehinton said:

My general advice re Manning, would be to try and get used to it, or just accept that you’ll never like him. 
 

The way Pearson and co left was disgraceful, the way the club communicated to the fans was disgraceful, airing dirty laundry was disgraceful. 
 

But if you think they went through all that, got knocked back by their first two choices to replace Nige, and then proceed to back Manning in the way they have done over the last few windows, just to sack him early on in his first full season, I have two hopes for you. No matter how much you’d long for it. It’d take a hell of a losing streak, over a long period, for it to even be a possibility. 

Really? Can you provide any more info about that?

[headhunter]

10 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Brighton constantly get it right don’t they on the coaching front. They were superb again on Saturday. The overseas market is one to consider for sure for our next move. Still think we haven’t recovered from Benny! Albeit Benny did a lot of good work behind the scenes (like Nige). 

I don't recall anything of note that Benny did in 98/99

O'Driscoll & Nige yes, Benny no 

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, what did you think Derby changed?

They didn’t make any subs until 74th minute.

I just watched the first half over lunch (bugger for punishment), I didn’t see any discernible change from them per se.

The thing I thought I saw live (and fair play for rewatching, but it’s glutton for punishment - unless you have a bizarre forfeit chart) is that once they realised that we were isolating Pring left side they didn’t push onto him at all and just cut off options, being happy to allow the play to be forced into the centre where they had the additional power to win the ball. Effectively they let us have the ball but forced it more central and then broke quite quickly from the compressed area. They also started hitting channels to Yates who peeled on Vyner and had him on toast.

So, not a sub for me - but I think they saw we’d compressed the game (compare to the first ten where we got down the left side twice, once where Twine played Armstrong in and once where Bird was engaged), and then allowed that compression further as they were confident of winning the ball and spitting it out quickly from that middle section

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, what did you think Derby changed?

They didn’t make any subs until 74th minute.

I just watched the first half over lunch (bugger for punishment), I didn’t see any discernible change from them per se.

I read although I'm yet to watch it back (my stream was ropey that their midfield were initially quite deep but started pressing more aggressively and a bit higher after a while. Not accurate?

Edited September 2 by Mr Popodopolous

[Ian M]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, what did you think Derby changed?

They didn’t make any subs until 74th minute.

I just watched the first half over lunch (bugger for punishment), I didn’t see any discernible change from them per se.

I have zero idea, I presume they made some kind of switch in game to wrestle the momentum but I was at my parent's 50th wedding anniversary so I was watching along on the pressure bar on sofascore
 

Apologies if Liam did everything possible of him in positively affecting Saturday's game.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

18 hours ago, Gol said:

Great minds think alike! I think if we are going to proceed with this tactic, roberts would be a better option for LCB (unless mcnally is quick, I don't know).

Apparently McNally is quick, however he's also relatively raw, I'd opt for Roberts and then McNally off the bench if Roberts looks problematic. 

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

The thing I thought I saw live (and fair play for rewatching, but it’s glutton for punishment - unless you have a bizarre forfeit chart) is that once they realised that we were isolating Pring left side they didn’t push onto him at all and just cut off options, being happy to allow the play to be forced into the centre where they had the additional power to win the ball. Effectively they let us have the ball but forced it more central and then broke quite quickly from the compressed area. They also started hitting channels to Yates who peeled on Vyner and had him on toast.

So, not a sub for me - but I think they saw we’d compressed the game (compare to the first ten where we got down the left side twice, once where Twine played Armstrong in and once where Bird was engaged), and then allowed that compression further as they were confident of winning the ball and spitting it out quickly from that middle section

I think the positioning of Adams on Bird (where possible) in a 4141 (Adams often the 1 but Ozoh too) and Twine’s positioning inside was there from word go.  Nyambe half RCB really, letting Jackson (RW) half cover Pring.  As I said, don’t think it was a discernible change, just common-sense shape to how we set-up.

44 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I read although I'm yet to watch it back (my stream was ropey that their midfield were initially quite deep but started pressing more aggressively and a bit higher after a while. Not accurate?

Not imho. They were physical in their intent from the first minute.  Eider inside Sykes shirt, Adams pushing Williams over at a throw, Ozoh hands all over Twine.

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Apparently McNally is quick, however he's also relatively raw, I'd opt for Roberts and then McNally off the bench if Roberts looks problematic. 

Once he gets into strike, but he turns like a Greek tanker in dry dock! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think the positioning of Adams on Bird (where possible) in a 4141 (Adams often the 1 but Ozoh too) and Twine’s positioning inside was there from word go.  Nyambe half RCB really, letting Jackson (RW) half cover Pring.  As I said, don’t think it was a discernible change, just common-sense shape to how we set-up.

Not imho. They were physical in their intent from the first minute.  Eider inside Sykes shirt, Adams pushing Williams over at a throw, Ozoh hands all over Twine.

Ah yes, referee didn't penalise early did he?

Albeit EFL Paper gave him 7/10.

Physical yes, but a bit higher up maybe?

[Batman]

On 01/09/2024 at 12:40, petehinton said:

My general advice re Manning, would be to try and get used to it, or just accept that you’ll never like him. 
 

The way Pearson and co left was disgraceful, the way the club communicated to the fans was disgraceful, airing dirty laundry was disgraceful. 
 

But if you think they went through all that, got knocked back by their first two choices to replace Nige, and then proceed to back Manning in the way they have done over the last few windows, just to sack him early on in his first full season, I have two hopes for you. No matter how much you’d long for it. It’d take a hell of a losing streak, over a long period, for it to even be a possibility. 

[Gert Mare]

Fortunately I missed most of the 2nd half on Saturday, but there are a few worrying signs for me:-

• Wide play
• Left Hand Side
• Losing Dickie
• Running out of steam
• Failing to come out fired up in second 45 minutes
• In game management (almost scripted changes beginning on 60 minutes)
• Playing players out of position just to ensure they are in the starting 11

Balanced with that there are positives in there when we are on our game and confident

• Creating opportunities
• Moving the ball quicker
• Starting games on the front foot
• Stronger bench (more options)
• Winning second balls
• The press

We have the tools, but it's how we utilise them to gain the advantage / stop the rot. The focus is really on Liam now to show his managerial skills, but I'm noticing worrying similarities between him and LJ as some others have mentioned. In game management is very questionable for me at the moment.