Utter disgrace Manning (LJ) - you’ve been backed and you serve up that?

[petehinton]

29 minutes ago, Batman said:

Afternoon Bruce

[Sir Geoff]

23 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

Fortunately I missed most of the 2nd half on Saturday, but there are a few worrying signs for me:-

• Wide play
• Left Hand Side
• Losing Dickie
• Running out of steam
• Failing to come out fired up in second 45 minutes
• In game management (almost scripted changes beginning on 60 minutes)
• Playing players out of position just to ensure they are in the starting 11

Balanced with that there are positives in there when we are on our game and confident

• Creating opportunities
• Moving the ball quicker
• Starting games on the front foot
• Stronger bench (more options)
• Winning second balls
• The press

We have the tools, but it's how we utilise them to gain the advantage / stop the rot. The focus is really on Liam now to show his managerial skills, but I'm noticing worrying similarities between him and LJ as some others have mentioned. In game management is very questionable for me at the moment.

Re your positives, 1,3, 5 and in a different way 6 aren't new to Manning.

In fact the only one attributable to him is no.2 moving the ball quicker.

[Gert Mare]

3 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Re your positives, 1,3, 5 and in a different way 6 aren't new to Manning.

In fact the only one attributable to him is no.2 moving the ball quicker.

Agreed. We have options and the ingredients are in there (somewhere). Consistency and confidence will most certainly help. Manning is definitely under the microscope now when it comes to his ability to affect games as they unfold. That is the area that is beginning to worry me the most. Proactive decisions defines a good manager. Substitutes failing to appear before the 60 minute mark regardless of the performance is a massive red flag.

 

[RedM]

On 01/09/2024 at 13:19, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Wonder how that translates into the dressing room.

Manning has very different ideas about what goes on in the dressing room to most managers. I heard he takes completely non role and it's very much player driven. On a match day this is, not sure how he is the rest of the time. I guess the 'work' is done in the lead up to the match, not on the day. I guess this is why we don't see a plan B as such, the method is stubbornly set in stone perhaps.

We have lost a lot of leaders from last season too. I noticed Joe trying to do a lot of the organising on Saturday, and when the 3rd went in he and Vyner had a screaming match.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Just now, RedM said:

Manning has very different ideas about what goes on in the dressing room to most managers. I heard he takes completely non role and it's very much player driven. On a match day this is, not sure how he is the rest of the time. 

We have lost a lot of leaders from last season too. I noticed Joe trying to do a lot of the organising on Saturday, and when the 3rd went in he and Vyner had a screaming match.

Seriously?

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Just now, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Seriously?

Actually, thinking about it more, that’s seriously wound me up.

If we’re struggling to affect games “in-game” and our second halves are consistently worse than our first, why on Earth is our manager leaving it to the players to do the talking at half time?!

If this is true and continues, then I’m even more convinced (if that’s possible) that Manning should go now.

[RedM]

1 minute ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Seriously?

I've edited my post to add a bit more explanation, but yes totally seriously. Certainly for home games.

[samo II]

3 minutes ago, RedM said:

Manning has very different ideas about what goes on in the dressing room to most managers. I heard he takes completely non role and it's very much player driven. On a match day this is, not sure how he is the rest of the time. I guess the 'work' is done in the lead up to the match, not on the day. I guess this is why we don't see a plan B as such, the method is stubbornly set in stone perhaps.

We have lost a lot of leaders from last season too. I noticed Joe trying to do a lot of the organising on Saturday, and when the 3rd went in he and Vyner had a screaming match.

That… is not ideal, in my opinion.

But perhaps it is one of these unusual ideas that can help under the right circumstances, and may explain why he’s brought in one or two he’s worked with before and might be familiar with it.

While wouldn’t expect or want any kind of tyrannical control over the dressing room from the HC, I also am of a mind you need some kind of presence and structure to it.

[petehinton]

9 minutes ago, RedM said:

Manning has very different ideas about what goes on in the dressing room to most managers. I heard he takes completely non role and it's very much player driven. On a match day this is, not sure how he is the rest of the time. I guess the 'work' is done in the lead up to the match, not on the day. I guess this is why we don't see a plan B as such, the method is stubbornly set in stone perhaps.

We have lost a lot of leaders from last season too. I noticed Joe trying to do a lot of the organising on Saturday, and when the 3rd went in he and Vyner had a screaming match.

In fairness, I don’t think that’s too out of the ordinary in this day at all. A lot of HTs in particular will be 5-10 mins of players in by themselves, and a few minutes of manager/assistant ‘talk’.   Even Nige was very ‘the dressing room has to run itself’ as, as a manager/HC, you can’t be in it at all times. 
 

Totally agree on second para though. Williams & Vyner being separated was the icing on the cake. 

Edited September 2 by petehinton

[RedM]

2 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Actually, thinking about it more, that’s seriously wound me up.

If we’re struggling to affect games “in-game” and our second halves are consistently worse than our first, why on Earth is our manager leaving it to the players to do the talking at half time?!

If this is true and continues, then I’m even more convinced (if that’s possible) that Manning should go now.

I can't say for certain that he NEVER gets involved, but have been told he believes the dressing room is the players space. He has the absolute minimum number of people in there. He certainly isn't always the one taking the lead role.

[One Team]

13 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Actually, thinking about it more, that’s seriously wound me up.

If we’re struggling to affect games “in-game” and our second halves are consistently worse than our first, why on Earth is our manager leaving it to the players to do the talking at half time?!

If this is true and continues, then I’m even more convinced (if that’s possible) that Manning should go now.

He said in a post match interview last season that “once they cross the white line there is nothing more I can do”.

From that moment I’ve just assumed he doesn’t know what in game management is, or at least believes in it. 

[Dastardly and Muttley]

5 minutes ago, One Team said:

He said in a post match interview last season that “once they cross the white line there is nothing more I can do”.

From that moment I’ve just assumed he doesn’t know what in game management is, or at least believes in it. 

I’d understand that, in a way. He’s just saying that the players on the pitch are in control of delivering his game plan. I’m more concerned if he’s actually not taking a role at half time.

[RedM]

1 minute ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

I’d understand that, in a way. He’s just saying that the players on the pitch are in control of delivering his game plan. I’m more concerned if he’s actually not taking a role at half time.

I suppose we just got to observe. If the players come out and do something vastly different then someone has changed something.  If they come out and do the same again they have decided to stick to the original gameplan perhaps? 

That said though the first halves so far have been our much better periods of play and maybe we haven't needed to change much. The second halves though have been a different story altogether, largely down to the opposition making changes which we haven't expected, a naive way of thinking which surely can't be happening.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Just now, RedM said:

I suppose we just got to observe. If the players come out and do something vastly different then someone has changed something.  If they come out and do the same again they have decided to stick to the original gameplan perhaps? 

That said though the first halves so far have been our much better periods of play and maybe we haven't needed to change much. The second halves though have been a different story altogether, largely down to the opposition making changes which we haven't expected, a naive way of thinking which surely can't be happening.

It’s happened too many times. We don’t react after half time and think that playing the same way will continue to work. Naive is the way to describe it and, as it’s happened for ten months, I don’t think it will change.

[fisherrich]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

Manning has very different ideas about what goes on in the dressing room to most managers. I heard he takes completely non role and it's very much player driven. On a match day this is, not sure how he is the rest of the time. I guess the 'work' is done in the lead up to the match, not on the day. I guess this is why we don't see a plan B as such, the method is stubbornly set in stone perhaps.

We have lost a lot of leaders from last season too. I noticed Joe trying to do a lot of the organising on Saturday, and when the 3rd went in he and Vyner had a screaming match.

Agreed, no leaders that carry any respect. Feels like there is no Plan B during the game. I watched the Derby game and it was obvious LM did not really know how to change the course of the game when it was needed. Worrying….

[Mr Popodopolous]

There was actually a period early in his reign when we were slow starters in both halves.

Talking about underlying numbers, minutes 1-15, as well as the oft stated 46-60. Slow to get going.

Saturday was very good in that period but we didn't capitalise but vs Millwall although 2 up...

More clinical than brilliant?

A bit better v Coventry but by no means that dominant or brilliant.

Vs Hull Away.

They actually edged the early Period.

[mozo]

I think you're allowed a couple of games like that per season, but we need to get straight back on the horse and perform. 

If we beat Blackburn, it's still a decent start to the season. The pressure is on though. And Manning needs to decide how much he changes a losing side, at the risk of over-thinking.

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Actually, thinking about it more, that’s seriously wound me up.

If we’re struggling to affect games “in-game” and our second halves are consistently worse than our first, why on Earth is our manager leaving it to the players to do the talking at half time?!

If this is true and continues, then I’m even more convinced (if that’s possible) that Manning should go now.

I cannot believe what he is saying. That team members do the talking at half time and not him!

I was at a Stoke City v Leeds United match in 1991 in Second Division. Stood in the terracing that was just alongside the away team dressing room with a couple of small windows. It was 0-0 at halftime and listening to Howard Wilkinson was very interesting. He screamed at every player in the squad in such a way that I’d never heard before. But it worked as Leeds came out for second half so wound up that Stoke hardly touched the ball for the entire remainder of the game. Leeds scored five minutes into the half and they really slaughtered Stoke even if it ended 1-0 win for Leeds.

The next season didn’t they also win the last Division One before Premier started?

Manning? Clueless as a manager of players.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

One thing I’ve noticed on this thread is that the number of facepalm emojis is far less than I’d expect.

Generally, anti-Manning posts have received a few, whereas in this thread there’s very few. 

Signs of a shift in the fan base, or are the critical posts just being written with more evidence so that they don’t deserve the facepalm?

[Malago]

8 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

One thing I’ve noticed on this thread is that the number of facepalm emojis is far less than I’d expect.

Generally, anti-Manning posts have received a few, whereas in this thread there’s very few. 

Signs of a shift in the fan base, or are the critical posts just being written with more evidence so that they don’t deserve the facepalm?

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Just now, Malago said:

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Oh I knew someone would

Almost edited the post to say, go on, do it

[Malago]

11 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Oh I knew someone would

Almost edited the post to say, go on, do it

I’m nothing if not predictable.

[BCFC31]

3 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Actually, thinking about it more, that’s seriously wound me up.

If we’re struggling to affect games “in-game” and our second halves are consistently worse than our first, why on Earth is our manager leaving it to the players to do the talking at half time?!

If this is true and continues, then I’m even more convinced (if that’s possible) that Manning should go now.

I wouldn't beileve everything you read on here. I highly doubt that is the case.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

3 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I wouldn't beileve everything you read on here. I highly doubt that is the case.

If you’ve been on the forum a while, you’d know RedM is one of the more reliable posters.

[exAtyeoMax]

43 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

One thing I’ve noticed on this thread is that the number of facepalm emojis is far less than I’d expect.

Generally, anti-Manning posts have received a few, whereas in this thread there’s very few. 

Signs of a shift in the fan base, or are the critical posts just being written with more evidence so that they don’t deserve the facepalm?

Can't remember if I've face palmed your post but if I have face=palmed anyone it is directed to what has been said, ie LM not taking a HT talk etc. I'm face palming the information not the poster. It's like WTF?!!

Edited September 2 by exAtyeoMax

[RedM]

To get things straight, I'm not saying he is a bad manager or that his methods, which will be different for some of our players, won't work. 

What I am concerned about though is he is learning on the job with my team, a team that has such little success in the scheme of things. How many managers have we had who have gone on to bigger jobs after leaving us, we just don't make winners and that attitude seems to filter down.

Players leave and have successful careers and leave us behind. No one really buys into the idea Bristol City will be on the rise anytime soon. 

Yes Manning will be backed and given time now that he has all the players he wanted. Since when did that happen, we got everyone we wanted without any real competition from other teams? 

As I said he hasn't the experience in the Championship and many managers will outsmart him as he learns. If we accept that all is good, if we don't frustrations will surface.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

14 minutes ago, RedM said:

To get things straight, I'm not saying he is a bad manager or that his methods, which will be different for some of our players, won't work. 

What I am concerned about though is he is learning on the job with my team, a team that has such little success in the scheme of things. How many managers have we had who have gone on to bigger jobs after leaving us, we just don't make winners and that attitude seems to filter down.

Players leave and have successful careers and leave us behind. No one really buys into the idea Bristol City will be on the rise anytime soon. 

Yes Manning will be backed and given time now that he has all the players he wanted. Since when did that happen, we got everyone we wanted without any real competition from other teams? 

As I said he hasn't the experience in the Championship and many managers will outsmart him as he learns. If we accept that all is good, if we don't frustrations will surface.

I’d accept it if I saw him learning. I don’t, so far.