Who next?

[BeggyBlaggers]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Anyone calling for his head is unlikely to be doing it based on just these 4 games this season, but likely 30+ games going back to last season I suspect.

Exactly this....imo, Manning is simply just another run of the mill classroom FA coach.

 

Chalkboard patterns of play, routine like for like subs, behaviours and dross.

 

Anyone who rhinks hes our saviour to deliver the premier league is just scoffing away at the (taking this from another post) dogshit sandwiches that lansdown and his yes men serve up.

 

Its brilliant to want us to do it with the 'unknown quantity' but it will never work because lansdown wont stand for criticism 

[JAWS]

22 minutes ago, Robbored said:

JLs explanation of Nige’s sacking was as pathetic as it comes. He obviously clashed with JL and Tinnion over something or other or maybe it was several things but he’s gone and Manning arrives with a decent reputation and we all need to give him time - not slag him off after a crap performance.

It's not slagging him off. Its questioning his ability & decision making. It's one bad result but in the 4 other games (& those last season) some suspect management, both starting selection and in game which, had it been better, could & should have resulted in better outcomes. 

3 of the teams we've played currently sit below us & the other overtook us by beating us yesterday. A team with limited comparative funds & tipped to struggle & in poor form. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Our last trip to Blackburn was a horrible performance.

Early in the LM era, taking off Knight and Sykes early.

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We had one! A decent one at that.

NP and his team..and then we sacked him when his job was clearly not complete.

I realise that I’ll need my tin hat for saying this, but I think NP’s job was complete.

He had a three year contract and his job was to steer the club out of the financial mess that it was in, whilst maintaining our Championship status. And he did that job brilliantly. And finished it - a few months early in fact.

Whether he should have been given a fresh job, following on from that, a job of getting us into the Premiership; whether he deserved that job after what he’d already done; clearly open for debate, and clearly many fans feel that he should….but that’s a different issue.

And if he had been given that subsequent job then I’m sure that he would have been backed financially, in the same way that LM has been.

[JAWS]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Our last trip to Blackburn was a horrible performance.

Early in the LM era, taking off Knight and Sykes early.

Another example of illogical in game management.

I wouldn't mind if he can see something we can't & these somewhat illogical moves come off and overall proves his superior tactical nous but a year in & he's still making baffling decisions which overall aren't resulting in an effective outcome.

[W-S-M Seagull]

10 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

They headhunted LM precisely because they rated him as a coach. So why would they conclude now he needs help with his coaching? Not saying I disagree with you btw.

I've no doubt that Manning is a good coach.

But his management and in game management is questionable. 

Good coaches don't always make good managers. 

[fly in the air]

needs some help with championship experience 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I realise that I’ll need my tin hat for saying this, but I think NP’s job was complete.

He had a three year contract and his job was to steer the club out of the financial mess that it was in, whilst maintaining our Championship status. And he did that job brilliantly. And finished it - a few months early in fact.

Whether he should have been given a fresh job, following on from that, a job of getting us into the Premiership; whether he deserved that job after what he’d already done; clearly open for debate, and clearly many fans feel that he should….but that’s a different issue.

And if he had been given that subsequent job then I’m sure that he would have been backed financially, in the same way that LM has been.

ID - it shouldn’t be tin-hat, it’s just your opinion.

I would disagree that his job was complete though.  Phase one, or even phase two might’ve been complete.

i often said that Nige might not be the one to get us to the Premier League, it’s a tough objective, but the next man might, and would benefit from the hard work of the team over those 3 years.  I fully expected Nige to be helping the club find the next man.  I didn’t take that to necessarily be an internal appointment / promotion either.  Just someone appropriate to build on what he started.

The club tried to erase all trace of him.

I don’t think Liam Manning was a natural successor. I’m not convinced Jon and Brian got what they were expecting either.  Then again I think they are deaf to bullshit football terminology.

[SternJohnLegend]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

ID - it shouldn’t be tin-hat, it’s just your opinion.

I would disagree that his job was complete though.  Phase one, or even phase two might’ve been complete.

i often said that Nige might not be the one to get us to the Premier League, it’s a tough objective, but the next man might, and would benefit from the hard work of the team over those 3 years.  I fully expected Nige to be helping the club find the next man.  I didn’t take that to necessarily be an internal appointment / promotion either.  Just someone appropriate to build on what he started.

The club tried to erase all trace of him.

I don’t think Liam Manning was a natural successor. I’m not convinced Jon and Brian got what they were expecting either.  Then again I think they are deaf to bullshit football terminology.

If they wanted the young coach, they should have gone for a natural progression and just rolled the dice with Andy King and kept Pearson on in a back seat role as an advisor.

Would have been no less of a gamble from an unproven Manning

[JAWS]

6 minutes ago, SternJohnLegend said:

If they wanted the young coach, they should have gone for a natural progression and just rolled the dice with Andy King and kept Pearson on in a back seat role as an advisor.

Would have been no less of a gamble from an unproven Manning

Yes that would've made perfect sense SJ

[JAWS]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

ID - it shouldn’t be tin-hat, it’s just your opinion.

I would disagree that his job was complete though.  Phase one, or even phase two might’ve been complete.

i often said that Nige might not be the one to get us to the Premier League, it’s a tough objective, but the next man might, and would benefit from the hard work of the team over those 3 years.  I fully expected Nige to be helping the club find the next man.  I didn’t take that to necessarily be an internal appointment / promotion either.  Just someone appropriate to build on what he started.

The club tried to erase all trace of him.

I don’t think Liam Manning was a natural successor. I’m not convinced Jon and Brian got what they were expecting either.  Then again I think they are deaf to bullshit football terminology.

Spot on Fevs. They lap up a power point & someone who tows the line

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

I realise that I’ll need my tin hat for saying this, but I think NP’s job was complete.

He had a three year contract and his job was to steer the club out of the financial mess that it was in, whilst maintaining our Championship status. And he did that job brilliantly. And finished it - a few months early in fact.

Whether he should have been given a fresh job, following on from that, a job of getting us into the Premiership; whether he deserved that job after what he’d already done; clearly open for debate, and clearly many fans feel that he should….but that’s a different issue.

And if he had been given that subsequent job then I’m sure that he would have been backed financially, in the same way that LM has been.

Yeah I take that point ID. No tin hat needed.

Phases 1 and 2 yeah, mess cleared, youth blooded, being willing and able to work with financial cutbacks and yes the side or the spirit and underlying numbers tangibly improved. Some value on the pitch was created and or enhanced too.

The whitewashing by the club and some fans is odd though. I'm intrigued by the prospect of NP.and his team on an even financial keel and with money.

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, JAWS said:

Spot on Fevs. They lap up a power point & someone who tows the line

I don’t think he’s a yes man at all…but I bet he gave a brilliant interview, he’s an impressive speaker on the theory of his specialist subject.  That’s a genuine comment from me too.  

[italian dave]

42 minutes ago, SternJohnLegend said:

If they wanted the young coach, they should have gone for a natural progression and just rolled the dice with Andy King and kept Pearson on in a back seat role as an advisor.

Would have been no less of a gamble from an unproven Manning

That makes a fairly big assumption that NP would have accepted a back seat role as an advisor…..

[Robbored]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Why then sack someone who was slowly progressing us and deny him the funds and chance to take us further.

The sacking, the messaging and to an extent the spending isn't commensurate with a Long Term Strategy. It is Medium term horizons at best IMO.

Pearson’s sacking has been done to death Mr Pop.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Robbored said:

Pearson’s sacking has been done to death Mr Pop.

You know what will make it disappear once and for all among fans, the lingering doubts that may exist, RR?

Winning games. That's it, winning games and progress on the pitch will prove the point of the hierarchy. Nothing much else.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

ID - it shouldn’t be tin-hat, it’s just your opinion.

I would disagree that his job was complete though.  Phase one, or even phase two might’ve been complete.

i often said that Nige might not be the one to get us to the Premier League, it’s a tough objective, but the next man might, and would benefit from the hard work of the team over those 3 years.  I fully expected Nige to be helping the club find the next man.  I didn’t take that to necessarily be an internal appointment / promotion either.  Just someone appropriate to build on what he started.

The club tried to erase all trace of him.

I don’t think Liam Manning was a natural successor. I’m not convinced Jon and Brian got what they were expecting either.  Then again I think they are deaf to bullshit football terminology.

But doesn’t that assume that there was ever a phase three (or whatever you call it) on the cards? I don’t know that any of us are privy to just what was said, what was agreed, at the outset of the three year contract. It’s not inconceivable that it was always quite clear that it was a three year contract to deliver phases one and two and nothing more.

And you may well be right that the intention always was that he be party to the succession plan (that would be the ideal, of course, but we know we don’t always get the ideal at BCFC!!) - and for whatever reason that didn’t materialise. There clearly was a falling out of some kind, hence the erasure. 

So I’m not sure we’re fundamentally disagreeing: I just feel that in terms of his three year contract he got the job done. 
 

29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah I take that point ID. No tin hat needed.

Phases 1 and 2 yeah, mess cleared, youth blooded, being willing and able to work with financial cutbacks and yes the side or the spirit and underlying numbers tangibly improved. Some value on the pitch was created and or enhanced too.

The whitewashing by the club and some fans is odd though. I'm intrigued by the prospect of NP.and his team on an even financial keel and with money.

And following on from the above….yes, it would have been intriguing, for sure.

I don’t know whether we’ll ever find out the truth behind the evident falling out - I guess it’s in the queue with LJs promised book! It’s a shame we don’t have a fly on the wall sometimes! 

[Fpcity]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

ID - it shouldn’t be tin-hat, it’s just your opinion.

I would disagree that his job was complete though.  Phase one, or even phase two might’ve been complete.

i often said that Nige might not be the one to get us to the Premier League, it’s a tough objective, but the next man might, and would benefit from the hard work of the team over those 3 years.  I fully expected Nige to be helping the club find the next man.  I didn’t take that to necessarily be an internal appointment / promotion either.  Just someone appropriate to build on what he started.

The club tried to erase all trace of him.

I don’t think Liam Manning was a natural successor. I’m not convinced Jon and Brian got what they were expecting either.  Then again I think they are deaf to bullshit football terminology.

Do you think getting a foreign manager would've been better? German, Spanish etc? 

It seens SL has his heart set on a young British manager to be the guy that gets us up. I don't know what the percentage is of UK vs foreign managers is like getting out of the championship but can't think of many unless they get a big check book like Parker 

[Davefevs]

58 minutes ago, Fpcity said:

Do you think getting a foreign manager would've been better? German, Spanish etc? 

It seens SL has his heart set on a young British manager to be the guy that gets us up. I don't know what the percentage is of UK vs foreign managers is like getting out of the championship but can't think of many unless they get a big check book like Parker 

I don’t care what nationality tbh, but I do agree that SL really wants to do it by backing a young manager.  Why he’s constrained himself to “a type / that type” god only knows.  Especially when the two successful ones in terms of promotions have been Cotts and GJ.

[lotusman]

Patience......A commodity that does not exist in the championship means virtually every  manager( modern language coach) is always at risk of an early exit, it really is a game of musical chairs. L.M. has had to embrace his arrival against a back-ground of disenchantment on what went before .In that respect he has become a victim, I found myself somewhat disillusioned yet realise it was not of his making. He most certainly has been backed and now should be given a realistic time period complete with understanding and the support of fans for the overall well being of our club.

Already this league appears very different to previous seasons, the usual expectations may not be the norm. I can imagine the fight for the play-offs this season will be more fiercely competed than ever before and the margin between success and failure razor thin. Distractions of this nature are not helpful, let the passage of time be the arbitrator.

[Son of Fred]

7 hours ago, BeggyBlaggers said:

Exactly this....imo, Manning is simply just another run of the mill classroom FA coach.

 

Chalkboard patterns of play, routine like for like subs, behaviours and dross.

 

Anyone who rhinks hes our saviour to deliver the premier league is just scoffing away at the (taking this from another post) dogshit sandwiches that lansdown and his yes men serve up.

 

Its brilliant to want us to do it with the 'unknown quantity' but it will never work because lansdown wont stand for criticism 

In all honesty, what did you expect?

Let's not dwell on the handling of Nigel's departure-

Jon,in his infinite wisdom, identified the need for change, which is his prerogative..

Having done so,,before squeezing the trigger, I'm sure the possibility of then having to drop to No3 on the managerial wish list had been fully considered & digested.

Edited September 2 by Son of Fred

[Son of Fred]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What's a fair timeframe then?

15 Games of this plus the 31 of last to assess a Calendar year pretty much?

Takes us rather neatly to the start of the November international break.

[Bar BS3]

21 hours ago, Randy Marsh II said:

A manager who needs help shouldn't be managing in the Championship. 

I wouldn't sack him now, but if you are correct that he needs help then id happily sack him today and get a manager who doesn't need his hand held in. 

I can't think of a single successful manager in the history of forever, in any industry, who has not needed great people around him.!

To think that any one individual is solely responsible for success in any team or organisation is ridiculous!

 

[redsquirrel]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

ID - it shouldn’t be tin-hat, it’s just your opinion.

I would disagree that his job was complete though.  Phase one, or even phase two might’ve been complete.

i often said that Nige might not be the one to get us to the Premier League, it’s a tough objective, but the next man might, and would benefit from the hard work of the team over those 3 years.  I fully expected Nige to be helping the club find the next man.  I didn’t take that to necessarily be an internal appointment / promotion either.  Just someone appropriate to build on what he started.

The club tried to erase all trace of him.

I don’t think Liam Manning was a natural successor. I’m not convinced Jon and Brian got what they were expecting either.  Then again I think they are deaf to bullshit football terminology.

does anyone know why Phil Alexander disappeared yet?

[Randy Marsh II]

44 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I can't think of a single successful manager in the history of forever, in any industry, who has not needed great people around him.!

To think that any one individual is solely responsible for success in any team or organisation is ridiculous!

 

I'd say that's very different to what's being suggested. Top managers can identify top coaches to assist them. Know what they need to deliver success.  

We are basically talking about the club identifying he needs help, not LM, and giving him that even if he may not think he needs it. The club would be telling him he doesn't know how to do it himself. Very different. 

[Robbored]

37 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

does anyone know why Phil Alexander disappeared yet?

There wasn’t anything for him to do - the remit of the CEO was was already covered by JL and BT.

[Fuber]

23 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Have I misunderstood?

But Robbie Keane reporting to BT ?

 

Imagine Roy.

I'd want popcorn and a 4k feed.

[wheretheheartis]

This might come back to bite me but after 10 games I think we will be in the top 8

[KegCity]

On 01/09/2024 at 07:22, Henry said:

New owners.

Newman - DoF

Moyes - Manager.

 

that’ll do.

Only one of those 3 likely to happen any time soon.

[Phileas Fogg]

It feels like too much of a post-mortem at this stage. It’s a competitive league and we will inevitably lose some games. I’d rather see how we’re doing in a few weeks when we’ll have a better sense.

[Red Army 79]

To be fair to our owner and chairman they do give head coaches / managers time.

If you look at other clubs in the championship compared to us. I would be shocked if when Manning eventually does leave he wasn’t one of the longest serving coaches prior to leaving. 

[Loosey Boy]

Anyone who thinks that we will be changing our Head Coach again, anytime soon is likely to be disappointed - I am one who didn’t agree with getting rid of NP as would have liked to have seen what he could achieve with a budget to spend.

However, the hierarchy have invested in LM now and so we need to give him time to embed all the new players.
 

I’m hoping that Saturday’s result will be a “shot in the arm” for Liam, the coaching team and players.

Our squad is certainly much stronger than it was last season but we need to play the players we’ve signed in the right positions! The starting line-up at Blackburn will be interesting to see!

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It feels like too much of a post-mortem at this stage. It’s a competitive league and we will inevitably lose some games. I’d rather see how we’re doing in a few weeks when we’ll have a better sense.

Agree PF.

For me the problem is that we’ve improved the attacking play (debate, discuss) at the expense of the defensive play (debate, discuss) for zero net-gain, as it stands.

We could go into the ins and out of strength of opponents, etc, but that’s a bit futile at a formative stage of the league.

So we do need to see more games.

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree PF.

For me the problem is that we’ve improved the attacking play (debate, discuss) at the expense of the defensive play (debate, discuss) for zero net-gain, as it stands.

We could go into the ins and out of strength of opponents, etc, but that’s a bit futile at a formative stage of the league.

So we do need to see more games.

I’ll caveat my post above by saying with the backing we’ve had I don’t think it’s unreasonable to cautiously expect us challenging for top 8 with an enjoyable style of play.

I would be disappointed with another season of mid table purgatory and no cup run. 

[BobBobBobbin]

It's absolutely not the time to be thinking about sacking him. 

I do refer back to a previous post I made though that I think Liam would be helped by having less conformity in his backroom team. At the moment you see total alignment between LM, CH & JK. Those three have a rapport based on a shared vision for the game. That is a strength in some respects, they have a plan and a vision and that's a good thing. You only have to look at the pragmatism for pragmatisms sake of the LJ era to see what not having a defined philosophy can do for you. However, Liam's greatest strength is also one of his biggest weaknesses. It looks like he cannot see things from an alternative perspective. The beauty of football is that there innumerate ways to skin the proverbial cat and Liam seems to get lost when his stock position doesn't answer the questions that the opposition is asking. I'd be inclined to add a contradicting voice to the dynamic (Much like NP did with Euell and Fleming) if only to highlight what a Manager like Paul Warne would see when looking at us. 

Manning is clearly a very good coach and our Plan A works consistently. The issue in the championship is that other teams are quick to adjust to a plan and stop our play. Manning is far too slow/incapable of following suit on his own. He seems fearful of off the cuff changes even when it's an obvious fix.

I don't expect that he will make that change though, as I say, he'll see the alignment as a strength rather than weakness.  

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I’ll caveat my post above by saying with the backing we’ve had I don’t think it’s unreasonable to cautiously expect us challenging for top 8 with an enjoyable style of play.

I would be disappointed with another season of mid table purgatory and no cup run. 

It’s an interesting stance PF.  Many fans suggested that they found Nige’s football boring, and they found Manning’s more exciting, at least until that bad run (!!!), and that’s all they said they wanted, more excitement.

However, I bet if you dug deeper what they really wanted was more exciting football and improvement in results / position in league.  My hypothetical response was that if we were more exciting but didn’t get results, how happy would they genuinely be?

On a 4-game sample (small sample) the attacking play is better, does that equate to more exciting?  Probably, yes.  But how do you evaluate the defence?  Do you accept the worsening of it…if the net gain is the kinda results and performances we’ve had so far, and a mid-table finish, maybe just below half-way?

Over 35 league games, 2 transfer windows, several international breaks and a preseason, are we seeing improvement?  Or just a different “style” but same performance / results. Personally I’d like to wait until we’ve seen 10 games (41 in total - 31 last season / 10 this), even if my head is starting to build a view.

[Rob k]

14 hours ago, JAWS said:

Spot on Fevs. They lap up a power point & someone who tows the line

I’ve seen nothing to suggest that LM is a yes man or here to toe the line. Hes been specific i think in what he’s wanted and has clearly made some demands. It’s now on him to make this work. 

[Silvio Dante]

57 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

It's absolutely not the time to be thinking about sacking him. 

I do refer back to a previous post I made though that I think Liam would be helped by having less conformity in his backroom team. At the moment you see total alignment between LM, CH & JK. Those three have a rapport based on a shared vision for the game. That is a strength in some respects, they have a plan and a vision and that's a good thing. You only have to look at the pragmatism for pragmatisms sake of the LJ era to see what not having a defined philosophy can do for you. However, Liam's greatest strength is also one of his biggest weaknesses. It looks like he cannot see things from an alternative perspective. The beauty of football is that there innumerate ways to skin the proverbial cat and Liam seems to get lost when his stock position doesn't answer the questions that the opposition is asking. I'd be inclined to add a contradicting voice to the dynamic (Much like NP did with Euell and Fleming) if only to highlight what a Manager like Paul Warne would see when looking at us. 

Manning is clearly a very good coach and our Plan A works consistently. The issue in the championship is that other teams are quick to adjust to a plan and stop our play. Manning is far too slow/incapable of following suit on his own. He seems fearful of off the cuff changes even when it's an obvious fix.

I don't expect that he will make that change though, as I say, he'll see the alignment as a strength rather than weakness.  

Hey, you’re stealing all my best lines!

I think the subject of giving Liam “help” first came up in that horrific run from January last season and the consensus was, as you’ve indicated, he’s not likely to welcome a contrarian. And I clearly totally agree with the set up well, can’t adjust point you have broadly.

The only name I had that I thought Liam might accept was George Burley - he’s Hoggs father in law and has been there, done it and they’ve said he’s seen some games. Dont see it though overall.

[BobBobBobbin]

10 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Hey, you’re stealing all my best lines!

I think the subject of giving Liam “help” first came up in that horrific run from January last season and the consensus was, as you’ve indicated, he’s not likely to welcome a contrarian. And I clearly totally agree with the set up well, can’t adjust point you have broadly.

The only name I had that I thought Liam might accept was George Burley - he’s Hoggs father in law and has been there, done it and they’ve said he’s seen some games. Dont see it though overall.

It doesn't even have to be "experienced", just someone with a differing football ideology who can question the consensus view. A devils advocate type personality would suffice!

 

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, BobBobBobbin said:

It doesn't even have to be "experienced", just someone with a differing football ideology who can question the consensus view. A devils advocate type personality would suffice!

 

The issue there obviously is that someone without experience is less likely to want to disagree/potentially upset management. Happens all the time in the real world.

Your ideal may not be necessarily an external or experienced at management but someone who knows football, knows the squads strengths and has enough background to be able to state an opinion without feeling they have to agree with the manager.

Apros of nothing, what’s Andy King doing these days….

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

There wasn’t anything for him to do - the remit of the CEO was was already covered by JL and BT.

Jesus Christ. 

 

Like putting clowns on the trapeze.

Edited September 2 by Superjack

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

It doesn't even have to be "experienced", just someone with a differing football ideology who can question the consensus view. A devils advocate type personality would suffice!

 

Me, you or Silvio?

[BobBobBobbin]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Me, you or Silvio?

Not sure even Liam would agree with some of my asymmetrical concoctions!

[FNQ]

13 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Hey, you’re stealing all my best lines!

I think the subject of giving Liam “help” first came up in that horrific run from January last season and the consensus was, as you’ve indicated, he’s not likely to welcome a contrarian. And I clearly totally agree with the set up well, can’t adjust point you have broadly.

The only name I had that I thought Liam might accept was George Burley - he’s Hoggs father in law and has been there, done it and they’ve said he’s seen some games. Dont see it though overall.

Sorry SD, but I don’t see this as being amongst your best lines..

Liam’s the HC of a professional football club and has been entrusted with a hell of a lot of responsibility, he’s been in the job for 10 months now and should be able to recognise himself whether he needs help or not. If his back room team aren’t  providing him with the stimulus that he needs to drive the ‘project’ forward, then he should change the back room team. 

[One Team]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t care what nationality tbh, but I do agree that SL really wants to do it by backing a young manager.  Why he’s constrained himself to “a type / that type” god only knows.  Especially when the two successful ones in terms of promotions have been Cotts and GJ.

This bit grinds me most with Lansdown. Time and again the young upcoming coach hasn’t worked on his watch, and the experienced professional has.

He just doesn’t seem to learn anything about his management and coaching appointments and believes that what he feels is right, when history would indicate otherwise.

[headhunter]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think he’s a yes man at all…but I bet he gave a brilliant interview, he’s an impressive speaker on the theory of his specialist subject.  That’s a genuine comment from me too.  

Are you suggesting a touch of Lee Johnson with his PowerPoint presentation and that slide with "bomb alley" on it?

Having met LM at close-quarters he does talk impressively but without that cheeky-chappy LJ style [remember that 80s song, "'ello John got a new motor"  ]

[FNQ]

8 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Are you suggesting a touch of Lee Johnson with his PowerPoint presentation and that slide with "bomb alley" on it?

Having met LM at close-quarters he does talk impressively but without that cheeky-chappy LJ style [remember that 80s song, "'ello John got a new motor"  ]

Ha ha.. always thought of Alexei Sayle as more of a Gary Johnson type.

[Batman]

On 01/09/2024 at 00:32, JAWS said:

Despite having egg on their face the Lansdowns will lose patience soon and will have no choice but to dispense with LM.

They will give him another half dozen games but that will be games wasted in my view.

I don't see any tactical in game nous & continued poor player selection.

And more importantly lessons don't appear to be learned from the mistakes. 

So when the inevitable happens who next? 

How about Moyes?

 

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Are you suggesting a touch of Lee Johnson with his PowerPoint presentation and that slide with "bomb alley" on it?

Having met LM at close-quarters he does talk impressively but without that cheeky-chappy LJ style [remember that 80s song, "'ello John got a new motor"  ]

Nope, I’m saying he’s got 18 years of coaching experience that he can rely on to talk about for hours in detail and conviction.  Ask him a question on how he might do something at Bristol City and he’ll have a very creditable  response that would impress us (and JL / BT).

However ask him something about the match we’ve just played and something in particular that a journo might raise as a critique, and you get a different answer!

12 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Ha ha.. always thought of Alexei Sayle as more of a Gary Johnson type.

Doctor Martens, Doctor Martens, Doctor Martens boot, Oi!

[McNasty Filth]

23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Anyone calling for his head is unlikely to be doing it based on just these 4 games this season, but likely 30+ games going back to last season I suspect.

Respect you a lot Dave, but 30 games or not you have to give the guy a chance to communicate his ideas pre season and for those players to take in said ideas and methods, then to implement them. After all that, also add in the new players. 

Maybe 15-20 games in, see where we are, then start critiquing, but now seems like there is a hidden agenda with these type of posts. Leaves a real bad taste.

[Davefevs]

43 minutes ago, McNasty Filth said:

Respect you a lot Dave, but 30 games or not you have to give the guy a chance to communicate his ideas pre season and for those players to take in said ideas and methods, then to implement them. After all that, also add in the new players. 

Maybe 15-20 games in, see where we are, then start critiquing, but now seems like there is a hidden agenda with these type of posts. Leaves a real bad taste.

I wasn’t talking about me (I already called for his head in March don’t forget ), just saying why some are saying what they are now. Nor is everyone critical of him saying “sack him” either.  They are just worried about certain aspects in some cases.

But it is possible to feel that there is a direction of travel.  I have my doubts about him (there are some bits I like too), but I want to see the opening 10 games this season to judge fairly.

Just as a point of reference…Liam himself doesn’t see it as a new season, but a continuation.

+++++

I didn’t actually call for Manning to be sacked btw…I said if I was in charge I would’ve sacked him.

[McNasty Filth]

12 hours ago, BobBobBobbin said:

It's absolutely not the time to be thinking about sacking him. 

I do refer back to a previous post I made though that I think Liam would be helped by having less conformity in his backroom team. At the moment you see total alignment between LM, CH & JK. Those three have a rapport based on a shared vision for the game. That is a strength in some respects, they have a plan and a vision and that's a good thing. You only have to look at the pragmatism for pragmatisms sake of the LJ era to see what not having a defined philosophy can do for you. However, Liam's greatest strength is also one of his biggest weaknesses. It looks like he cannot see things from an alternative perspective. The beauty of football is that there innumerate ways to skin the proverbial cat and Liam seems to get lost when his stock position doesn't answer the questions that the opposition is asking. I'd be inclined to add a contradicting voice to the dynamic (Much like NP did with Euell and Fleming) if only to highlight what a Manager like Paul Warne would see when looking at us. 

Manning is clearly a very good coach and our Plan A works consistently. The issue in the championship is that other teams are quick to adjust to a plan and stop our play. Manning is far too slow/incapable of following suit on his own. He seems fearful of off the cuff changes even when it's an obvious fix.

I don't expect that he will make that change though, as I say, he'll see the alignment as a strength rather than weakness.  

Very eloquently put mate, a real good post. For me the manager is trying to find the balance within the team/squad and the fine line between attack and defence and it not tipping over to much into one or the other.

I am slightly concerned by our defensive frailties, but that has mitigating circumstances i.e. dickie injury etc, but I'm not overly worried because I know we have the quality of player to come in and sort it out.

We've shown real progress in our attacking play, now's the time for cool heads and remain calm, trusting Manning can find the sweet spot.

[Eddie Hitler]

On 01/09/2024 at 20:07, BeggyBlaggers said:

Exactly this....imo, Manning is simply just another run of the mill classroom FA coach.

 

Chalkboard patterns of play, routine like for like subs, behaviours and dross.

 

Anyone who rhinks hes our saviour to deliver the premier league is just scoffing away at the (taking this from another post) dogshit sandwiches that lansdown and his yes men serve up.

 

Its brilliant to want us to do it with the 'unknown quantity' but it will never work because lansdown wont stand for criticism 

 

Yes.

When this obsession with coaching qualifications came in then proper character and capability assessment went out of the window.

The best managers either learned directly from other great managers or simply had the ability and intelligence as inherent characteristics.

My career was in business and I see the UEFA coaching badges as being similar to the MBA qualification: they are the signifier of the incompetent.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Yeah It does seem to me to be a little bit 'before the lord mayor show' to me. I mean bunch of new signings, players in injury list and some returning from injury to make any serious assessment of LM and his ability or lack of abilities in cracking the top six/promotion side. 

I have and still am not convinced LM is the man for the job. But have enjoyed the more attacking game plan and do feel the new signings do look to have talents to be worked on but are a bit raw, to young, and/or need to gain time in their new squads. LM's seeming inability to rouse the team in half time instructions and seeming to have a too rigid and at times strange substitutions or lack of substitutions. But I would of thought LM and coaching staff really not enough time to embed and get the whole squad up to squad, team, position, tactical awareness so far.

So I find this give 10, 20, 30, Xmas etc,etc sacking time frames really strange.

I do think BT, JL, SL, and the guillotine operator will be expecting success of a minimum of top 6 this year.

But as said previous I know it's frustrating at times but I enjoying the more attacking game plan and happy to keep watching and fingers crossed. Let's make some noise and do our bit and cheer them on for all our worth.

Who knows  

COYR

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

So I find this give 10, 20, 30, Xmas etc,etc sacking time frames really strange.

FWIW, my view isn’t 10 games before sacking him, it’s 10 games to build a view of which direction I think he’s taking us…and it’s unlikely to be black or white either way, unless we win or lose 6 on the trot!  10 games seems a reasonable amount of games to get that view.

[Roadrunner]

I have no confedance in the Lansdowns getting it right. Although they did get Nigel. But then balls up big time.

I would get excited with a new forgien owner and manager.

if not how about Gareth Southgate?

[Back of the Dolman]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I have no confedance in the Lansdowns getting it right. Although they did get Nigel. But then balls up big time.

I would get excited with a new forgien owner and manager.

if not how about Gareth Southgate?

What about Gareth Southgate ?

He’ll probably be Man United manager before long, wouldn’t come near Bristol City.

Just imagine how much he’d cost 

[robin_unreliant]

48 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

What about Gareth Southgate ?

He’ll probably be Man United manager before long, wouldn’t come near Bristol City.

Just imagine how much he’d cost 

However much he cost it would be too much. Wouldn't want him if he was free tbh.

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, robin_unreliant said:

However much he cost it would be too much. Wouldn't want him if he was free tbh.

I’m with you on that, he wasn’t my suggestion

[Maltshoveller]

4 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

However much he cost it would be too much. Wouldn't want him if he was free tbh.

Why not?

[robin_unreliant]

10 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Why not?

Why? He achieved nothing apart from  relegation as a club manager.

[The Coach]

11 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Why? He achieved nothing apart from  relegation as a club manager.

He’s an awful manager. He’d make Ten Hag look like Pep.

[Major Isewater]

On 01/09/2024 at 22:35, JAWS said:

Yes that would've made perfect sense SJ

Which is why it didn’t happen. 

[YorkshireSection]

SL wants Mark Robins, I think Manning is the poor mans version.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

SL wants Mark Robins, I think Manning is the poor mans version.

A shame he’s never gone all out to get him.

[LondonBristolian]

I'm a bit mixed on this.

On the one hand, I do think it IS premature to be calling for Manning's head one defeat into the season after we've spent a load of money getting players he wants. There was a point in early March when I was convinced it wasn't working and he should go but, in fairness to him, our form improved significantly after that. And, I don't think the Derby result was representative of how good the team are or the results we'll get under Manning over the course of the season and it has done nothing to change my view that, if he stays in charge, the most likely outcome is a 10th to 12th place finish.

At the same time, there is a valid question as to whether - having invested in the squad - the club should see 10th to 12th as good enough. As @ExiledAjaxpointed out the other week on a different thread, that should be irrelevant in some respects as there isn't really a correlation between the amount clubs spend and where they finish. But I suspect the club have not invested to tread water and my honest view is that a manager could get the players to mount a serious play-off push but I'm far from convinced Manning is that manager.

So, in short, I think sacking Manning at this point would be harsh and probably unfair but I'm also sceptical as to whether sticking with Manning will do anything than waste a long time whilst a manager who doesn't look set to succeed doesn't do quite enough to earn the sack, which is exactly what we did from 2016 to 2020.  And there are certainly clubs - Bournemouth last year and Southampton when they sacked Adkins for Pochettino being two examples - who've harshly sacked managers and it has turned out to be the right decision. 

[YorkshireSection]

1 hour ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

A shame he’s never gone all out to get him.

Im pretty sure there was a rumour that he was over looked or he tried to get him in on the cheap.

Not sure what to believe, I think he would have been a good fit.

[JAWS]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'm a bit mixed on this.

On the one hand, I do think it IS premature to be calling for Manning's head one defeat into the season after we've spent a load of money getting players he wants. There was a point in early March when I was convinced it wasn't working and he should go but, in fairness to him, our form improved significantly after that. And, I don't think the Derby result was representative of how good the team are or the results we'll get under Manning over the course of the season and it has done nothing to change my view that, if he stays in charge, the most likely outcome is a 10th to 12th place finish.

At the same time, there is a valid question as to whether - having invested in the squad - the club should see 10th to 12th as good enough. As @ExiledAjaxpointed out the other week on a different thread, that should be irrelevant in some respects as there isn't really a correlation between the amount clubs spend and where they finish. But I suspect the club have not invested to tread water and my honest view is that a manager could get the players to mount a serious play-off push but I'm far from convinced Manning is that manager.

So, in short, I think sacking Manning at this point would be harsh and probably unfair but I'm also sceptical as to whether sticking with Manning will do anything than waste a long time whilst a manager who doesn't look set to succeed doesn't do quite enough to earn the sack, which is exactly what we did from 2016 to 2020.  And there are certainly clubs - Bournemouth last year and Southampton when they sacked Adkins for Pochettino being two examples - who've harshly sacked managers and it has turned out to be the right decision. 

That's my point. Think we'd just be putting off the inevitable so why not cut our losses. If we could see he was learning by his mistakes fair enough but I don't see it. 

I'm not a lansdown fan but they have backed LM and I actually think they would be disappointed if we don't mount a serious top 6 finish.

It might seem unfair but sentiment shouldn't come into it & we as a club have wasted far too many opportunities over the years. 

If we give him say 15/20 games, and not performing you can probably write another season off again.

[temp]

Manning unproven in the championship has brought in many unproven in the championship players; we are putting our hopes on the likes of Twine (who has spent a lot of his time at Swindon) and others who havent even played in this country let alone the championship.

Top six ? your having a laugh, theres hope and there is no hope.

How can so many newbies be formed into a decent team even, let alone a top half finishing one even, in a season.?

BT, how is he still here even after being sacked as a manager...wtf, big broom required at the very top for any progress to happen.

I hope I`m wrong and we storm this div this season, thats a very big hope though.

 

 

[Shauntaylor85]

On 01/09/2024 at 20:57, Davefevs said:

ID - it shouldn’t be tin-hat, it’s just your opinion.

I would disagree that his job was complete though.  Phase one, or even phase two might’ve been complete.

i often said that Nige might not be the one to get us to the Premier League, it’s a tough objective, but the next man might, and would benefit from the hard work of the team over those 3 years.  I fully expected Nige to be helping the club find the next man.  I didn’t take that to necessarily be an internal appointment / promotion either.  Just someone appropriate to build on what he started.

The club tried to erase all trace of him.

I don’t think Liam Manning was a natural successor. I’m not convinced Jon and Brian got what they were expecting either.  Then again I think they are deaf to bullshit football terminology.

I would have preferred Nige in the Tinnion role.